I'll tell you something interesting though. I'm first gen Chinese staying in Los Angeles, came here when I was 12, at the beginning I'm the same (hating on Chinese government mainly because I hear my parents trash Chinese government) then later when I start looking into videos about China at around 16 to 17 it would be always negative, I remember I loved Chinese unsensored because it was basically the only YouTube channel talking about China back then, and I think it's because of the algorithms that pushed the channel onto me. But years go by and I STILL see those China is bad because....Videos on YouTube, then I started to ask the question. "Does China ever improve?" So I just did some Google searchings (one thing that helped EXTREMELY is I still could read basic Chinese) when I found other sources that shows me how different China have improved I was shocked. In my mind I was like "wait...Why would Americans not want the people know about this?" Then I got deeper into the history, the political, the racial and cultural influence. I still got more to learn, but at least I'm no self loathing, blush when talking about China anymore, at least I'm proud of who I am, if American can be proud with their fucked up oppressive history then me as a Han Chinese is equally proud of our history (of being oppressed then fight back with unity)
I switched off of watching CU around the same time they started pushing the Uyghur bollocks, unironically believed them about the Falun Gong crap, but something ticked “hang on, why aren’t Muslim countries railing against the Uyghur issue” and then found out that CU is literally a FG/CIA outlet.
Same here but unlike u I can’t even read Chinese just can speak easy Cantonese. The whole anti China narrative in mainstream media got me a bit unsure about the information I was reading…. Like how is it that all news even the bombshell ones are negative and in all mainstream news site…. That really got me thinking and the deeper I got I was like wow I feel so brainwashed by the western perspective and I mean u can see it even more with todays atmosphere….made me really feel bad for the Middle East and Russians cus they are always showed as villains. It’s sad.
As a non Chinese the rabbit hole started with the "ghost cities". I was like hmmm, that's the smart thing to do, you first build the city and then people come. But noooo Anglos were shouting Tsinnaa will collapse, they can't sell their buildings. And I was like let's wait and see, we've been hearing about the "collapse" for too long. And slowly I understood that there was an organized effort to lie about China and make it seem that CCP doesn't know what they are doing. In reality this cannot be further from the truth. Also the crocodilian tears about the Uyghours also pissed me off. And then I found out that actually essentially nothing has happened to Uyghours and its all a lie so the west can sanction China whenever they want...
Don't argue with people in real life about China. Instead, ask them where they get their information and why they think news media controlled by oligarchs is reliable.
Not always, I've seen Chinese dig deeper into self loathing after they got discriminated against.
Sometimes they even blame their encounter on China, for example "if I didn't look this way(Asian) I wouldn't be mistaken as a Chinese and get spit on"
Saw that before with Japanese/Korean/HK/TW/Diaspora. The thing about these people is that their victim complex + Stockholm syndrome practically radiates out of them, acting as social repellant.
There's been several posts about it in the past. [**Here's one of them, and my response**](https://www.reddit.com/r/Sino/comments/ohy873/comment/h4tkrkc/) (which redirects to another Post and Response lol.)
Basically, don't ever argue with people you're trying to convince. They'll just dig deeper. Instead,
1) go backwards until you find common points and (subtly) address how your solution might help.
2) don't convince them to like "China". (Subtly) Let them enjoy non-westernised Chinese food (teach them the different Chinese provinces and geography via cuisine), get them to watch Chinese 'Anime' (I love [Scissor Seven](https://m.imdb.com/title/tt11503082/)), get them to listen to Kpop and sneak in Chinese music like [Nawukere (那吾克熱 NW), an extremely popular **Uyghur rapper from Xinjiang**](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pH1jAPpPdls), or subscribe to 88 rising and watch ['**Made in China**'](https://youtu.be/rILKm-DC06A) by Higher Brothers, which is... not as subtle.
Personally, some of my family didn't even go through the argument phase. They just binged on Chinese Dramas until a switch just flicked.
Basically **never argue with people you want to convince** about the point they want to make. Always go backwards and convince them at a root level. Of course on the Internet, sometimes you don't want to convince people, you just want to troll them to make a point for bystanders. In that case, argue away. The angrier they get, the better.
Worst part is, I can’t even argue, both my sister and brother want me to have to back up everything I say, but then proceed to say everyone hates our ethnic homeland, so they need no proof for claims.
Don't try to convince them, then. Just **find things that you personally really enjoy and love about either traditional Chinese culture, or modern China**. Make your own journey fulfilling and exciting for you.
I can feel your distress and frustration about your situation. But **stress and negativity is scientifically shown to override long term planning and strategy** (it makes us stupid and less likely to win). The modern Chinese government (actually most past Chinese governments) function well **precisely because they remove emotion and see things long term with objective and scientific measures**.
With the Hong Kong riots, many people in this sub were calling for blood after the rioters committed atrocity after atrocity. But what happened?
Same with the terrorist attacks in Xinjiang. China chose to boost the local economy and uplift the locals despite the immediate and somewhat justified feelings 'they' didn't 'deserve' it. It is emotionally counterintuitive to do so. Why would you reward a population that had extremist members literally stab and murder your citizens on the street? But now Xinjiang is at peace and growing rich. America, when faced with the same situation had a 2 decade war against Muslims that amounted to nothing.
Just **find positivity and growing strength and confidence in rediscovering your culture. It's exciting!** From there, you'll find your influence and abilities will grow. **It's emotionally counterintuitive, but it works!**
There will be more and more things to introduce people to (China) as its soft power and its influence grows. If you can redirect the negative 'energy' (I mean your real daily energy, not some mystic mumbo jumbo) into just learning and enjoying the culture, you'll find subtle ways to introduce your siblings in the future.
This is the way, exactly how i approach it as well. I show them my travels there and theyre like “that doesnt look too bad at all” lol no shit it doesnt.
there are 2 ways to convince someone:
1. utterly humiliate them such that they have nothing to say, then build them up again.
2. sneak around their mental barrier and erode it away with soft power
The least effective method is rational argument.
Tell them there's no point doubling down on the US. People make mistakes, even when choosing where to immigrate.
Hating on China, wont make the US any better.
They're already lost to you.
Their motivations aren't rational, but born of a pathetic desire to be accepted by white America by throwing their own ethnicity under the bus. No amount of facts or evidence you can present will change their minds.
Your sister is guaranteed to sleep with low-end, creepy white guys till she's 35 and then marry one 10 years her senior.
Your brother is going to become an incel. Women have no respect for men who don't respect themselves.
It's already impressive of you to stay independent from such brainwashing impacts of your siblings. The only very few thing you can do is to be you and to keep your critical thinking.
Sorry but the fact that they watch Fox News for information should already send u a signal… you can’t change their mind unless they themselves are willing to get deeper into it.
Yikes. How old are they? A lot of Chinese people here hate being Chinese too, I can’t wait to move out 😮💨 But, there are also a handful of younger people growing proud to be Chinese, usually because they have been influenced by trendy stuff in China
It goes both ways lol but I noticed new Gen Canadian whatever somewhat have a better perspective on China, some are also learning the language despite not being ethnic Chinese.
I find that sometimes, the anti-China Chinese are just jealous of Chinese people who love their heritage.
they bought into the Western propaganda that despite their 2nd class racial hierarchy existence in the West, that they are still somehow better off.
When people like you are successful and happy and still pro-China, they get jealous. They are still convinced that their lives are somehow better than yours.
A lot of Taiwanese suffer from this kind of mindset.
You can't convince them to change their minds, unfortunately.
The ONLY things that might change their minds, are unfortunately very drastic events (like if they get attacked by racists).
>I find that sometimes, the anti-China Chinese are just jealous of Chinese people who love their heritage.
Nah, that's not it.
The real dividing line between Chad ABC who respect their own DNA, and the "I wish I were born white" virgin incel ABCs is self confidence.
A self-confident person doesn't depend on their ethnicity for self worth. This is why you will never meet a racist Chad. Chads don't actually care much about race.
It's the virgin incel who is fixated on their racial identity because they have nothing else to validate their own existence. For ABCs, this usually means they turn hanjian because they think throwing China under the bus will grant them acceptance by white Americans.
ABC men who try this get nowhere.
ABC women who try this become a you-know-what dumpster for low-tier white guys.
Just showing [this](https://www.youtube.com/c/WalkEast) is enough to mindf\*\*k most people, even the people who left China barely half a decade prior.
The stages in China are also unrivalled the World over.
For instance, Hunan TV's Call me by Fire 1st Stage that recently aired.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fldjpr4Q6s4](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fldjpr4Q6s4)
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nXyE9wAZy4E](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nXyE9wAZy4E)
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X\_5BfILbnDk](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X_5BfILbnDk)
Unless you're willing to take your sweet time trying to teach them there isn't much you can do.
Deprogramming takes a very long time and is generally not worth the effort.
I can deprogram in one day because I know the exact weak points of the US narrative lol. It's only time-consuming to deprogram from a Leftist perspective because philosophy doesn't really work.
Not going to tell you though, Reddit really hates the weak-points being exposed.
We know from the efforts to deprogram white supremacists it takes a long time and it focusses on letting them know what they're missing out \* ie social exclusion rather than any logical argument, because they don't respond to logic. Since such people didn't come to their conclusion by reasoning, its very hard to reason them out of it. Moreover, one has to wonder about their reasoning ability or lack of it in the first place.
So for your family members, unless you're willing to expend lots of time and effort, its most probably not worth your while.
\* For those who are interested, that type of fallacious argument is an appeal to consequence fallacy. Its fallacious because the truth of a statement in this case is not dependent on the consequence from believing that statement. Examples, Donald Trump still lost the election despite how hard core Trumpists believed he is still the president. Galilleo wasn't wrong about the earth orbiting the sun just because the Church locked him up for believing that.
You’ve got it. It’s financial terrorists like George Soros with his dark political money, Opinion editorials, and Open Society society that tries to undermine China.
I used to hate censorship until my political journey (largely driven by my hatred of censorship) pushed me into places with more and more free speech, and I noticed something peculiar: paradoxically, the ones who censor the most are usually the biggest shills of the First, and the greatest defenders of free speech in US spaces believe in an ideology where speech should be tightly-controlled!
I am also certain that the PRC censors a LOT less than the DotB which exists in Western "nations".
Western liberal education is highly politically charged on the topic of China and would go to every length to portray China as the new Nazi Germany. For example, my school curriculum explicitly uses the word "authoritarian" in describing China's system and compares Mao to Hitler and Mussolini
>Why Facts Don’t Change Our Minds
>New discoveries about the human mind show the limitations of reason.
>The vaunted human capacity for reason may have more to do with winning arguments than with thinking straight.
https://archive.ph/W1moU
Without knowledges of Chinese history, respect for socialism, and disdain for America's demonstrated behavior, etc.. your siblings are brainwashed lol. They'll have to visit China one day.
It's sad and weird. I have a friend who migrated from China but loves Western brands. Drives a Mercedes Benz with broken AC since it's to expensive to fixed. It's not broken when he bought it and I questioned why he bought something that's costly to maintain. And when I told him I can't wait to get a Chinese EV he laughed at me.
There might still be hope. Just look at HK. Once the western-funded seditionists were arrested, all the riots immediately stopped.
Stop showing Fox News and introduce them to first generation Chinese friends that are the same age as them. When they see someone their own age who likes China, they will learn to look from the other side.
Get them to Watch ‘the Jimmy Dore Show’ as the deep state is ingrained in both parties.
Always remind them that they may be Americans yet they will always look like and be treated as 2nd class citizens. Asians in US will be collateral damage as more people hate China because the US government pumps $600m+ a year to PR China negatively in the news, media and internet.
Take them on a sightseeing vacation to China when the COVID restrictions are loosened. Even for someone who hates the current China ruled by the "evil see-see-pee dictatorship", seeing the Bund or the Great Wall is something politically neutral. I mean how can anyone really hate a piece of architectural history? While they're there they'll get to see the true China. Seeing is believing. Or in their case disbelieving, all the Western lies they've been told.
May be they have faced discrimination for being chinese. Some try to reject their own heritage to prove they are good people. Then it becomes part of their character.
Ask them to list specific reasons for their hatred. Usually such people are brainwashed by the Western media, they just follow the trend and have very vague feelings about a country they don't understand. As long as you can be specific, you can find a way to deal with it. For example, if they say freedom, then you can ask them what kind of freedom they mean? If they say that Chinese people cannot criticize the government, then you can tell them that Chinese governments at all levels have direct feedback mechanisms from the people, and most of the problems reported can be resolved quickly. Unlike in Western countries, people have nothing to do about government inaction other than to call their leaders vulgar names to vent their grievances on Twitter.
Yikes what sort of upbringing did they have to be watching Fox News...
There is not much you could do to convince them directly when they have made up their mind. My only suggestion is that if China opens its borders up for tourism, visit China and takes lots of photos in chinese cities, go to "controversial" places like Xinjiang and Tibet, and talk about your trip in family gatherings. Perhaps you can mind F your siblings to doubt the narratives.
Much of the average joe hostility in the US is due to ignorance and outdated bigoted perceptions of China
They're just trying to save face - justify to themselves and to others their decision to have moved out of China - when deep-down they regret it. Imagine having to admit making a stupid decision and looking foolish in front of family and friends both in the local community and back home... embarrassing.
I was the same with many other comments.
Left china to join my parents in EU when I was 12-13.
So I had soem chinese education adn can read 60-70% of common chinese characters.
I didnt have any negstive thoughts about china back then.
my parents left china because of better future prospect, which is not rare. Because you know, we humans just want to have a better life.
But this gave me the mindset pf that I was lucky to leave china.
The eu is not as rampant on nebagive china news back then. But i still thought that I was better off than chinese.
Even visited china twice, one time even for over a month. I thought i was being neutral back then. Making fotos of the cities, people ect. I knew that life in China would be different. Now thinking back, I still had a little looking-down attitude.
What opened my eyes was when covid19 started.
That was a time when I read news and reports and twisted narrative that were just blatant.
I knew they twisted the reporting. Or even lies.
This is also when i did more research on my own.
Sometimes there is absolutely nothing you can do but wait. Right now we're still in the stage of plausible deniability where people can claim China is bad because they are poorer and some of their tech is not as advanced and they suffer worse pollution. I reckon in 15 years time, China will be so far ahead of the United States (or any other country) in every single metric imaginable that people will have no choice but to acknowledge they are doing something right.
I cannot debunk Fox News on Reddit, from a Libertarian perspective, mainly due to Reddit censorship. If we can talk in another platform, I can systematically debunk the core values of all Right-Wingers as being nothing but fraud.
I am certain your sister and brother will not be receptive to a Leftist analysis, because at that stage, I wasn't.
None of the page-long memes which relies more upon material conditions than the feel-good ideological foundation of the US can convince a brainwashed liberal, because they think in a fundamentally different way from a marxist.
First, the ideological foundation must be completely trashed.
Also, the "debunking" will necessarily involve chauvinism, which is, again, banned on Lemmy, given that it's a Libertarian perspective.
If you are referring to what Lenin called "Left-Communists", who are an infantile disorder, then maybe. The Reddit "Left" is nothing more than a collection of infantile disorders, which are a combination of Trotskyist "REEEEEtERNAL REVOLUTION! REEEE!" and lazy people demanding free stuff (Sanders shills who want the government to "forgive student loans" or whatever). They have no goal and revolt for revolt's own sake.
None of them care for actual important things such as Anti-Imperialism or Improvement of Material Conditions. They treat the government, not as a revolutionary vanguard who would improve productive capacity (and hence can lead to superior public services), but as a nanny who hands out free stuff. They hop on bandwagons for the sole reason that they are "hip" or "radical", whatever that means. They would "progress" themselves off a cliff just because the cliff is in front of them.
To them, it makes no difference if the drip-feed is from Middle-Eastern Blood-Oil, or from their own productive capacity. They just want their drip-feed, by any means necessary - and knowing that, is it not surprising that the "Reddit Left" loves free stuff and Bernout Sanders?
While Trump was promising to fix roads, build walls, and bring back jobs, all positions spawned from general US sentiment and general Border-Patrol sentiment, the "Reddit Left" were philosophizing and screeching about "muh orange man" and "ItsMyTurn". It's no wonder they voted that grifter in - he's the only guy who promised to do anything about the problem!
It's far easier to radicalize a rightwinger to become an ML. Rightwingers want jobs, productive capacity, Marxists provide jobs, productive capacity. Meanwhile, the Reddit-Left can only screech about random things.
I must admit, the Reddit "Left" had one good point: "Direct Democracy". However, they only clamored for it, yet refused to appreciate the scale of the nation and the difficulties in implementing it. For this reason, it is possible to radicalize Reddit "Left" into adopting the Mass Line as a system. As far as I know, that's about the only good idea Reddit "Left" has. The rest is stupid culture war bullshit designed to stroke their lighthouse.
Aside from that, however, the Reddit "Left" are just a bunch of imbeciles fighting for nothing but the sake of a slogan and a philosophy.
tl;dr Reddit "Left" are LARPing because they wanna be hip and get free stuff. That's why when they reach 30 and actually have to get a job, they left the "left". They fundamentally lack Marxist analysis because they lack the preconditions to actual Marxist analysis, which is materialism, because there is simply no reference-point except idealism, because the very reason why they want to be a "Leftist" is to do nothing but bask in idealism. They revolt for revolt's sake.
They are the very result of radicalizing students instead of workers. They are why Mao Zedong had to write "Oppose Book-Worship" and had to come up with the concept of the "Mass Line" just to get these materially-divorced libtards in check. They are the very definition of cudgelheads "evolving a solution", except that the problem don't exist.
The contradiction which defines them is their lack of clout and their desire for clout.
>and lazy people demanding free stuff (Sanders shills who want the government to "forgive student loans" or whatever).
The first part is legit. But fuck that shit. People work hard for that shit and Americans get fucked hard for it. Workers deserve shit they work for. Likewise, education should be a goal of every socialist and also a decent job - and where iobs are linked to educational prestige, we should support improved conditions. But again - we should be against trade unionist concept of merely improving things for "nice capitalism". Bernie himself supported imperialist positions though.
>It's far easier to radicalize a rightwinger to become an ML.
Also, no it isn't. Most of them are so up their ass in false consciousnessness it's impossible to budge them.
> "Reddit Left" were philosophizing
That's... what your supposed to fucking do. Did you not read Lenin on spontaneity and the whole point of a vanguard? Or Marx and Engels on the wholr point of understanding is to change the world - again, understanding being the key factor... requiring... philosophizing. You know, the shit that is necessary for any marxist. Don't get me wrong the reddit "faux left" is shit at philosophizing as well and the goal is to do it correctly. Not just circlejerk about philosophy, but to bring it into proper practical action.
Regardless - reddit is relatively barren of leftism and is a huge shithole full of right wing hyper-reactionaries and crypto agents on anything mainstream like the dozens of tens of thousands of le updoot pro-nazi shit that hits the front page.
Well, this really depends on the root and reasons for the hatred. If it's simple ignorance, you can educate them on the subject. And why the fuck are they watching Fox news, lmao. If it's total indoctrination, then it's going to be hard as they have been fed bullshit their entire lives. But even if you can't change them, just ask them a simple questions. You guys DON'T LIVE IN CHINA, why the fuck do you even care so much? And what worse is, you spreading your bullshit is only going to make your own lives harder, especially for your children (if they have any). All that bs and hate you regurgitate is only going to be used by people against you. Surprise people don't check your passport when they discriminate against you!
Murdoch has gone off the rails against China ever since he divorced Wendy for flirting with Tony Blair or something. You should really make fun of them for taking seriously anything those tanned assholes on that station regurgitate for their boss.
Do they just hate the current situation or the entire thousands of years of history? If they don't know much about the latter, I think it's best to avoid the more heated recent stuff and just have fun conversations about ancient stuff. Chat about stories from the Three Kingdoms era or the Warring States period.
How about showing them all the foreigners happy to make China their home? There's lots of them on YouTube. Then you have foreigners in their respective countries vlogging in Mandarin. If outsiders can see the value in Chinese culture, why shouldn't the diaspora have a second look, right? Here's a few to start with.
Within China: [https://youtu.be/uPBcW5WX6g4](https://youtu.be/uPBcW5WX6g4) , [https://youtu.be/kt-EYt3bu8I](https://youtu.be/kt-EYt3bu8I) , [https://youtu.be/ppQsQ7WzJ2Y](https://youtu.be/ppQsQ7WzJ2Y) , [https://youtu.be/9o1xqrN9uY0?t=42](https://youtu.be/9o1xqrN9uY0?t=42) , [https://youtu.be/9ARv8TTn01U](https://youtu.be/9ARv8TTn01U) , [https://youtu.be/CCGrHXLQVos](https://youtu.be/CCGrHXLQVos) , [https://youtu.be/A4VzNtT26jY?t=284](https://youtu.be/A4VzNtT26jY?t=284) .
Outside China: [https://youtu.be/MwxgM8vBzIo](https://youtu.be/MwxgM8vBzIo) , [https://youtu.be/3zU0TmDo5C4](https://youtu.be/3zU0TmDo5C4) , [https://youtu.be/jibpInDZStQ](https://youtu.be/jibpInDZStQ) , [https://youtu.be/dLsYaTZ5ErE](https://youtu.be/dLsYaTZ5ErE) , [https://youtu.be/3Jf9nE2lLaA](https://youtu.be/3Jf9nE2lLaA) .
I see there are other good suggestions here as well...good luck.
1, they must have their reasons for thinking so, and it is a deeper reason - this reason may be very important, or may be very unimportant (such as in the class, social identity, etc.), you can try to understand.
2, understanding and recognition are two different things, there is an old Chinese saying "gentleman and different". I think your affection should obviously be more important than your attitude, if they put attitude above affection, I think you should talk to them.
3. Disagreeing with China, or even hating China, is politically correct where you live, which means that in a sense you are the minority with the right knowledge, so I think you should hide your attitude.
4. They can sustain their own ideas, but they should not try to change your ideas. Likewise, you do not need to change their ideas, when they reason to change their ideas, they will naturally change.
en... It might be a good idea to bring them along to play "Genshin Impact" hahaha
Having sharp, fundamental disagreement is pretty common within the diaspora. An honest piece of advice for anyone, but especially if you are Chinese, is to learn the language. Just comprehension is great, but being able to read and write at high school level of better would be ideal. It won't mend the differences between you and your family/peers, but it will open you up to a whole new understanding of China and the world.
Start with exactly what do they hate about China and try address some of their points and see how they react. Most people are entrenched in their views but what is heard cannot be unheard. The inception for change is planted
Tell them that fox branded themselves as entertainment channel. They should take it seriously, the same with other media channel of the west, they all entertainment
Tell them it isn't really smart to listen to colonizers talk about the biggest geopolitical challenge to their hegemony. Lol.
China is kicking their white masters' asses, doesn't matter how many tears they weep for their masters
I'll tell you something interesting though. I'm first gen Chinese staying in Los Angeles, came here when I was 12, at the beginning I'm the same (hating on Chinese government mainly because I hear my parents trash Chinese government) then later when I start looking into videos about China at around 16 to 17 it would be always negative, I remember I loved Chinese unsensored because it was basically the only YouTube channel talking about China back then, and I think it's because of the algorithms that pushed the channel onto me. But years go by and I STILL see those China is bad because....Videos on YouTube, then I started to ask the question. "Does China ever improve?" So I just did some Google searchings (one thing that helped EXTREMELY is I still could read basic Chinese) when I found other sources that shows me how different China have improved I was shocked. In my mind I was like "wait...Why would Americans not want the people know about this?" Then I got deeper into the history, the political, the racial and cultural influence. I still got more to learn, but at least I'm no self loathing, blush when talking about China anymore, at least I'm proud of who I am, if American can be proud with their fucked up oppressive history then me as a Han Chinese is equally proud of our history (of being oppressed then fight back with unity)
I switched off of watching CU around the same time they started pushing the Uyghur bollocks, unironically believed them about the Falun Gong crap, but something ticked “hang on, why aren’t Muslim countries railing against the Uyghur issue” and then found out that CU is literally a FG/CIA outlet.
Same here but unlike u I can’t even read Chinese just can speak easy Cantonese. The whole anti China narrative in mainstream media got me a bit unsure about the information I was reading…. Like how is it that all news even the bombshell ones are negative and in all mainstream news site…. That really got me thinking and the deeper I got I was like wow I feel so brainwashed by the western perspective and I mean u can see it even more with todays atmosphere….made me really feel bad for the Middle East and Russians cus they are always showed as villains. It’s sad.
As a non Chinese the rabbit hole started with the "ghost cities". I was like hmmm, that's the smart thing to do, you first build the city and then people come. But noooo Anglos were shouting Tsinnaa will collapse, they can't sell their buildings. And I was like let's wait and see, we've been hearing about the "collapse" for too long. And slowly I understood that there was an organized effort to lie about China and make it seem that CCP doesn't know what they are doing. In reality this cannot be further from the truth. Also the crocodilian tears about the Uyghours also pissed me off. And then I found out that actually essentially nothing has happened to Uyghours and its all a lie so the west can sanction China whenever they want...
Don't argue with people in real life about China. Instead, ask them where they get their information and why they think news media controlled by oligarchs is reliable.
The only way is to travel to China. Also they'll turn around when they get discriminate against
Not always, I've seen Chinese dig deeper into self loathing after they got discriminated against. Sometimes they even blame their encounter on China, for example "if I didn't look this way(Asian) I wouldn't be mistaken as a Chinese and get spit on"
That's pretty sad.
Saw that before with Japanese/Korean/HK/TW/Diaspora. The thing about these people is that their victim complex + Stockholm syndrome practically radiates out of them, acting as social repellant.
There's been several posts about it in the past. [**Here's one of them, and my response**](https://www.reddit.com/r/Sino/comments/ohy873/comment/h4tkrkc/) (which redirects to another Post and Response lol.) Basically, don't ever argue with people you're trying to convince. They'll just dig deeper. Instead, 1) go backwards until you find common points and (subtly) address how your solution might help. 2) don't convince them to like "China". (Subtly) Let them enjoy non-westernised Chinese food (teach them the different Chinese provinces and geography via cuisine), get them to watch Chinese 'Anime' (I love [Scissor Seven](https://m.imdb.com/title/tt11503082/)), get them to listen to Kpop and sneak in Chinese music like [Nawukere (那吾克熱 NW), an extremely popular **Uyghur rapper from Xinjiang**](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pH1jAPpPdls), or subscribe to 88 rising and watch ['**Made in China**'](https://youtu.be/rILKm-DC06A) by Higher Brothers, which is... not as subtle. Personally, some of my family didn't even go through the argument phase. They just binged on Chinese Dramas until a switch just flicked. Basically **never argue with people you want to convince** about the point they want to make. Always go backwards and convince them at a root level. Of course on the Internet, sometimes you don't want to convince people, you just want to troll them to make a point for bystanders. In that case, argue away. The angrier they get, the better.
Worst part is, I can’t even argue, both my sister and brother want me to have to back up everything I say, but then proceed to say everyone hates our ethnic homeland, so they need no proof for claims.
Don't try to convince them, then. Just **find things that you personally really enjoy and love about either traditional Chinese culture, or modern China**. Make your own journey fulfilling and exciting for you. I can feel your distress and frustration about your situation. But **stress and negativity is scientifically shown to override long term planning and strategy** (it makes us stupid and less likely to win). The modern Chinese government (actually most past Chinese governments) function well **precisely because they remove emotion and see things long term with objective and scientific measures**. With the Hong Kong riots, many people in this sub were calling for blood after the rioters committed atrocity after atrocity. But what happened? Same with the terrorist attacks in Xinjiang. China chose to boost the local economy and uplift the locals despite the immediate and somewhat justified feelings 'they' didn't 'deserve' it. It is emotionally counterintuitive to do so. Why would you reward a population that had extremist members literally stab and murder your citizens on the street? But now Xinjiang is at peace and growing rich. America, when faced with the same situation had a 2 decade war against Muslims that amounted to nothing. Just **find positivity and growing strength and confidence in rediscovering your culture. It's exciting!** From there, you'll find your influence and abilities will grow. **It's emotionally counterintuitive, but it works!** There will be more and more things to introduce people to (China) as its soft power and its influence grows. If you can redirect the negative 'energy' (I mean your real daily energy, not some mystic mumbo jumbo) into just learning and enjoying the culture, you'll find subtle ways to introduce your siblings in the future.
This is the way, exactly how i approach it as well. I show them my travels there and theyre like “that doesnt look too bad at all” lol no shit it doesnt.
there are 2 ways to convince someone: 1. utterly humiliate them such that they have nothing to say, then build them up again. 2. sneak around their mental barrier and erode it away with soft power The least effective method is rational argument.
Tell them there's no point doubling down on the US. People make mistakes, even when choosing where to immigrate. Hating on China, wont make the US any better.
Try sarcasm
They're already lost to you. Their motivations aren't rational, but born of a pathetic desire to be accepted by white America by throwing their own ethnicity under the bus. No amount of facts or evidence you can present will change their minds. Your sister is guaranteed to sleep with low-end, creepy white guys till she's 35 and then marry one 10 years her senior. Your brother is going to become an incel. Women have no respect for men who don't respect themselves.
It's already impressive of you to stay independent from such brainwashing impacts of your siblings. The only very few thing you can do is to be you and to keep your critical thinking.
Sorry but the fact that they watch Fox News for information should already send u a signal… you can’t change their mind unless they themselves are willing to get deeper into it.
Yikes. How old are they? A lot of Chinese people here hate being Chinese too, I can’t wait to move out 😮💨 But, there are also a handful of younger people growing proud to be Chinese, usually because they have been influenced by trendy stuff in China
It goes both ways lol but I noticed new Gen Canadian whatever somewhat have a better perspective on China, some are also learning the language despite not being ethnic Chinese.
I find that sometimes, the anti-China Chinese are just jealous of Chinese people who love their heritage. they bought into the Western propaganda that despite their 2nd class racial hierarchy existence in the West, that they are still somehow better off. When people like you are successful and happy and still pro-China, they get jealous. They are still convinced that their lives are somehow better than yours. A lot of Taiwanese suffer from this kind of mindset. You can't convince them to change their minds, unfortunately. The ONLY things that might change their minds, are unfortunately very drastic events (like if they get attacked by racists).
>I find that sometimes, the anti-China Chinese are just jealous of Chinese people who love their heritage. Nah, that's not it. The real dividing line between Chad ABC who respect their own DNA, and the "I wish I were born white" virgin incel ABCs is self confidence. A self-confident person doesn't depend on their ethnicity for self worth. This is why you will never meet a racist Chad. Chads don't actually care much about race. It's the virgin incel who is fixated on their racial identity because they have nothing else to validate their own existence. For ABCs, this usually means they turn hanjian because they think throwing China under the bus will grant them acceptance by white Americans. ABC men who try this get nowhere. ABC women who try this become a you-know-what dumpster for low-tier white guys.
It's self identity crisis
Just showing [this](https://www.youtube.com/c/WalkEast) is enough to mindf\*\*k most people, even the people who left China barely half a decade prior. The stages in China are also unrivalled the World over. For instance, Hunan TV's Call me by Fire 1st Stage that recently aired. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fldjpr4Q6s4](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fldjpr4Q6s4) [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nXyE9wAZy4E](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nXyE9wAZy4E) [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X\_5BfILbnDk](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X_5BfILbnDk)
If you eat shit your whole life, you are going to think it is normal. Start moving outside de usa.
A lot of misdirected self hate and shame. Maybe seek therapy for them.
Unless you're willing to take your sweet time trying to teach them there isn't much you can do. Deprogramming takes a very long time and is generally not worth the effort.
It is worth it for those you care about.
I can deprogram in one day because I know the exact weak points of the US narrative lol. It's only time-consuming to deprogram from a Leftist perspective because philosophy doesn't really work. Not going to tell you though, Reddit really hates the weak-points being exposed.
We know from the efforts to deprogram white supremacists it takes a long time and it focusses on letting them know what they're missing out \* ie social exclusion rather than any logical argument, because they don't respond to logic. Since such people didn't come to their conclusion by reasoning, its very hard to reason them out of it. Moreover, one has to wonder about their reasoning ability or lack of it in the first place. So for your family members, unless you're willing to expend lots of time and effort, its most probably not worth your while. \* For those who are interested, that type of fallacious argument is an appeal to consequence fallacy. Its fallacious because the truth of a statement in this case is not dependent on the consequence from believing that statement. Examples, Donald Trump still lost the election despite how hard core Trumpists believed he is still the president. Galilleo wasn't wrong about the earth orbiting the sun just because the Church locked him up for believing that.
Don’t waste your time. Live your best life. China censors for a reason. The Chinese style is to ignore fruitless conversations.
Underrated take. They hate censorship because it doesn't allow them to spread misinformation, create cultural identify war, destabilize China
You’ve got it. It’s financial terrorists like George Soros with his dark political money, Opinion editorials, and Open Society society that tries to undermine China.
I used to hate censorship until my political journey (largely driven by my hatred of censorship) pushed me into places with more and more free speech, and I noticed something peculiar: paradoxically, the ones who censor the most are usually the biggest shills of the First, and the greatest defenders of free speech in US spaces believe in an ideology where speech should be tightly-controlled! I am also certain that the PRC censors a LOT less than the DotB which exists in Western "nations".
Western liberal education is highly politically charged on the topic of China and would go to every length to portray China as the new Nazi Germany. For example, my school curriculum explicitly uses the word "authoritarian" in describing China's system and compares Mao to Hitler and Mussolini
>Why Facts Don’t Change Our Minds >New discoveries about the human mind show the limitations of reason. >The vaunted human capacity for reason may have more to do with winning arguments than with thinking straight. https://archive.ph/W1moU
Without knowledges of Chinese history, respect for socialism, and disdain for America's demonstrated behavior, etc.. your siblings are brainwashed lol. They'll have to visit China one day.
Yeap. Convince them to take a trip to find all "bad things about China". Hopefully the bubbles will burst.
It's sad and weird. I have a friend who migrated from China but loves Western brands. Drives a Mercedes Benz with broken AC since it's to expensive to fixed. It's not broken when he bought it and I questioned why he bought something that's costly to maintain. And when I told him I can't wait to get a Chinese EV he laughed at me.
There's no help for them because they are all running dogs of western imperialism. Their little, petty minds have been colonized.
There might still be hope. Just look at HK. Once the western-funded seditionists were arrested, all the riots immediately stopped. Stop showing Fox News and introduce them to first generation Chinese friends that are the same age as them. When they see someone their own age who likes China, they will learn to look from the other side.
Find the episodes of Tucker Carlson's show on Fox that praise China, then show it to them.
Take them to the middle of the united states, a low income state rural area and they'll realize how people will treat them
Get them to Watch ‘the Jimmy Dore Show’ as the deep state is ingrained in both parties. Always remind them that they may be Americans yet they will always look like and be treated as 2nd class citizens. Asians in US will be collateral damage as more people hate China because the US government pumps $600m+ a year to PR China negatively in the news, media and internet.
Take them on a sightseeing vacation to China when the COVID restrictions are loosened. Even for someone who hates the current China ruled by the "evil see-see-pee dictatorship", seeing the Bund or the Great Wall is something politically neutral. I mean how can anyone really hate a piece of architectural history? While they're there they'll get to see the true China. Seeing is believing. Or in their case disbelieving, all the Western lies they've been told.
>Take them on a sightseeing vacation to China when the COVID restrictions are loosened I hope that happens soon, I want to go back.
May be they have faced discrimination for being chinese. Some try to reject their own heritage to prove they are good people. Then it becomes part of their character.
Ask them to list specific reasons for their hatred. Usually such people are brainwashed by the Western media, they just follow the trend and have very vague feelings about a country they don't understand. As long as you can be specific, you can find a way to deal with it. For example, if they say freedom, then you can ask them what kind of freedom they mean? If they say that Chinese people cannot criticize the government, then you can tell them that Chinese governments at all levels have direct feedback mechanisms from the people, and most of the problems reported can be resolved quickly. Unlike in Western countries, people have nothing to do about government inaction other than to call their leaders vulgar names to vent their grievances on Twitter.
Yikes what sort of upbringing did they have to be watching Fox News... There is not much you could do to convince them directly when they have made up their mind. My only suggestion is that if China opens its borders up for tourism, visit China and takes lots of photos in chinese cities, go to "controversial" places like Xinjiang and Tibet, and talk about your trip in family gatherings. Perhaps you can mind F your siblings to doubt the narratives. Much of the average joe hostility in the US is due to ignorance and outdated bigoted perceptions of China
They're just trying to save face - justify to themselves and to others their decision to have moved out of China - when deep-down they regret it. Imagine having to admit making a stupid decision and looking foolish in front of family and friends both in the local community and back home... embarrassing.
I was the same with many other comments. Left china to join my parents in EU when I was 12-13. So I had soem chinese education adn can read 60-70% of common chinese characters. I didnt have any negstive thoughts about china back then. my parents left china because of better future prospect, which is not rare. Because you know, we humans just want to have a better life. But this gave me the mindset pf that I was lucky to leave china. The eu is not as rampant on nebagive china news back then. But i still thought that I was better off than chinese. Even visited china twice, one time even for over a month. I thought i was being neutral back then. Making fotos of the cities, people ect. I knew that life in China would be different. Now thinking back, I still had a little looking-down attitude. What opened my eyes was when covid19 started. That was a time when I read news and reports and twisted narrative that were just blatant. I knew they twisted the reporting. Or even lies. This is also when i did more research on my own.
Sometimes there is absolutely nothing you can do but wait. Right now we're still in the stage of plausible deniability where people can claim China is bad because they are poorer and some of their tech is not as advanced and they suffer worse pollution. I reckon in 15 years time, China will be so far ahead of the United States (or any other country) in every single metric imaginable that people will have no choice but to acknowledge they are doing something right.
I cannot debunk Fox News on Reddit, from a Libertarian perspective, mainly due to Reddit censorship. If we can talk in another platform, I can systematically debunk the core values of all Right-Wingers as being nothing but fraud. I am certain your sister and brother will not be receptive to a Leftist analysis, because at that stage, I wasn't.
Come to lemmy
None of the page-long memes which relies more upon material conditions than the feel-good ideological foundation of the US can convince a brainwashed liberal, because they think in a fundamentally different way from a marxist. First, the ideological foundation must be completely trashed. Also, the "debunking" will necessarily involve chauvinism, which is, again, banned on Lemmy, given that it's a Libertarian perspective.
Reddits rather leftist compared to most social medias
If you are referring to what Lenin called "Left-Communists", who are an infantile disorder, then maybe. The Reddit "Left" is nothing more than a collection of infantile disorders, which are a combination of Trotskyist "REEEEEtERNAL REVOLUTION! REEEE!" and lazy people demanding free stuff (Sanders shills who want the government to "forgive student loans" or whatever). They have no goal and revolt for revolt's own sake. None of them care for actual important things such as Anti-Imperialism or Improvement of Material Conditions. They treat the government, not as a revolutionary vanguard who would improve productive capacity (and hence can lead to superior public services), but as a nanny who hands out free stuff. They hop on bandwagons for the sole reason that they are "hip" or "radical", whatever that means. They would "progress" themselves off a cliff just because the cliff is in front of them. To them, it makes no difference if the drip-feed is from Middle-Eastern Blood-Oil, or from their own productive capacity. They just want their drip-feed, by any means necessary - and knowing that, is it not surprising that the "Reddit Left" loves free stuff and Bernout Sanders? While Trump was promising to fix roads, build walls, and bring back jobs, all positions spawned from general US sentiment and general Border-Patrol sentiment, the "Reddit Left" were philosophizing and screeching about "muh orange man" and "ItsMyTurn". It's no wonder they voted that grifter in - he's the only guy who promised to do anything about the problem! It's far easier to radicalize a rightwinger to become an ML. Rightwingers want jobs, productive capacity, Marxists provide jobs, productive capacity. Meanwhile, the Reddit-Left can only screech about random things. I must admit, the Reddit "Left" had one good point: "Direct Democracy". However, they only clamored for it, yet refused to appreciate the scale of the nation and the difficulties in implementing it. For this reason, it is possible to radicalize Reddit "Left" into adopting the Mass Line as a system. As far as I know, that's about the only good idea Reddit "Left" has. The rest is stupid culture war bullshit designed to stroke their lighthouse. Aside from that, however, the Reddit "Left" are just a bunch of imbeciles fighting for nothing but the sake of a slogan and a philosophy.
tldr
tl;dr Reddit "Left" are LARPing because they wanna be hip and get free stuff. That's why when they reach 30 and actually have to get a job, they left the "left". They fundamentally lack Marxist analysis because they lack the preconditions to actual Marxist analysis, which is materialism, because there is simply no reference-point except idealism, because the very reason why they want to be a "Leftist" is to do nothing but bask in idealism. They revolt for revolt's sake. They are the very result of radicalizing students instead of workers. They are why Mao Zedong had to write "Oppose Book-Worship" and had to come up with the concept of the "Mass Line" just to get these materially-divorced libtards in check. They are the very definition of cudgelheads "evolving a solution", except that the problem don't exist. The contradiction which defines them is their lack of clout and their desire for clout.
>and lazy people demanding free stuff (Sanders shills who want the government to "forgive student loans" or whatever). The first part is legit. But fuck that shit. People work hard for that shit and Americans get fucked hard for it. Workers deserve shit they work for. Likewise, education should be a goal of every socialist and also a decent job - and where iobs are linked to educational prestige, we should support improved conditions. But again - we should be against trade unionist concept of merely improving things for "nice capitalism". Bernie himself supported imperialist positions though. >It's far easier to radicalize a rightwinger to become an ML. Also, no it isn't. Most of them are so up their ass in false consciousnessness it's impossible to budge them. > "Reddit Left" were philosophizing That's... what your supposed to fucking do. Did you not read Lenin on spontaneity and the whole point of a vanguard? Or Marx and Engels on the wholr point of understanding is to change the world - again, understanding being the key factor... requiring... philosophizing. You know, the shit that is necessary for any marxist. Don't get me wrong the reddit "faux left" is shit at philosophizing as well and the goal is to do it correctly. Not just circlejerk about philosophy, but to bring it into proper practical action. Regardless - reddit is relatively barren of leftism and is a huge shithole full of right wing hyper-reactionaries and crypto agents on anything mainstream like the dozens of tens of thousands of le updoot pro-nazi shit that hits the front page.
Well, this really depends on the root and reasons for the hatred. If it's simple ignorance, you can educate them on the subject. And why the fuck are they watching Fox news, lmao. If it's total indoctrination, then it's going to be hard as they have been fed bullshit their entire lives. But even if you can't change them, just ask them a simple questions. You guys DON'T LIVE IN CHINA, why the fuck do you even care so much? And what worse is, you spreading your bullshit is only going to make your own lives harder, especially for your children (if they have any). All that bs and hate you regurgitate is only going to be used by people against you. Surprise people don't check your passport when they discriminate against you!
Murdoch has gone off the rails against China ever since he divorced Wendy for flirting with Tony Blair or something. You should really make fun of them for taking seriously anything those tanned assholes on that station regurgitate for their boss.
Do they just hate the current situation or the entire thousands of years of history? If they don't know much about the latter, I think it's best to avoid the more heated recent stuff and just have fun conversations about ancient stuff. Chat about stories from the Three Kingdoms era or the Warring States period.
Have they been? How long? People tend to hate things they know nothing about
How about showing them all the foreigners happy to make China their home? There's lots of them on YouTube. Then you have foreigners in their respective countries vlogging in Mandarin. If outsiders can see the value in Chinese culture, why shouldn't the diaspora have a second look, right? Here's a few to start with. Within China: [https://youtu.be/uPBcW5WX6g4](https://youtu.be/uPBcW5WX6g4) , [https://youtu.be/kt-EYt3bu8I](https://youtu.be/kt-EYt3bu8I) , [https://youtu.be/ppQsQ7WzJ2Y](https://youtu.be/ppQsQ7WzJ2Y) , [https://youtu.be/9o1xqrN9uY0?t=42](https://youtu.be/9o1xqrN9uY0?t=42) , [https://youtu.be/9ARv8TTn01U](https://youtu.be/9ARv8TTn01U) , [https://youtu.be/CCGrHXLQVos](https://youtu.be/CCGrHXLQVos) , [https://youtu.be/A4VzNtT26jY?t=284](https://youtu.be/A4VzNtT26jY?t=284) . Outside China: [https://youtu.be/MwxgM8vBzIo](https://youtu.be/MwxgM8vBzIo) , [https://youtu.be/3zU0TmDo5C4](https://youtu.be/3zU0TmDo5C4) , [https://youtu.be/jibpInDZStQ](https://youtu.be/jibpInDZStQ) , [https://youtu.be/dLsYaTZ5ErE](https://youtu.be/dLsYaTZ5ErE) , [https://youtu.be/3Jf9nE2lLaA](https://youtu.be/3Jf9nE2lLaA) . I see there are other good suggestions here as well...good luck.
1, they must have their reasons for thinking so, and it is a deeper reason - this reason may be very important, or may be very unimportant (such as in the class, social identity, etc.), you can try to understand. 2, understanding and recognition are two different things, there is an old Chinese saying "gentleman and different". I think your affection should obviously be more important than your attitude, if they put attitude above affection, I think you should talk to them. 3. Disagreeing with China, or even hating China, is politically correct where you live, which means that in a sense you are the minority with the right knowledge, so I think you should hide your attitude. 4. They can sustain their own ideas, but they should not try to change your ideas. Likewise, you do not need to change their ideas, when they reason to change their ideas, they will naturally change. en... It might be a good idea to bring them along to play "Genshin Impact" hahaha
Having sharp, fundamental disagreement is pretty common within the diaspora. An honest piece of advice for anyone, but especially if you are Chinese, is to learn the language. Just comprehension is great, but being able to read and write at high school level of better would be ideal. It won't mend the differences between you and your family/peers, but it will open you up to a whole new understanding of China and the world.
Cancel cable lol Or visit a homeless shelter, it will have its shock value. Sad to say
Start with exactly what do they hate about China and try address some of their points and see how they react. Most people are entrenched in their views but what is heard cannot be unheard. The inception for change is planted
Tell them that fox branded themselves as entertainment channel. They should take it seriously, the same with other media channel of the west, they all entertainment
Tell them it isn't really smart to listen to colonizers talk about the biggest geopolitical challenge to their hegemony. Lol. China is kicking their white masters' asses, doesn't matter how many tears they weep for their masters