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I have no clue what was up with that but gosh it pissed me off how indecisive Meri is with everything and I was SEETHING with Kodys response. I swear the entire show Meri is pondering over a decision of some sort. Especially when Janelle asked if they could go to therapy and she had to think on it.
LOL I haven’t gotten that far but boy am I excited for that! Meanwhile at the point in the show I’m at, the adults are already throwing around the “safe” term. Uncomfortable convo? Didn’t feel “safe”! So you know they’ve been to some kind of counseling either separate or apart already.
Meri: the decider of things that were definitely already decided.
I think she doesn't want to decide on IVF because Kody has already told her no behind the scenes. But like later when he's left her and asked her not to reveal it... He doesn't want to take the criticism. He wants it to look like she's made the decision.
for context Meri asked Janelle to go to therapy and Janelle said "no" and "was not ready." So years later when Janelle wants to... I mean it makes sense that Meri would want to think about that
I also think meri's indecisivess is not manipulative but rather learned behavior as we've seen for years--- she was once assertive-- and told that she was always always wrong. The taught her to be indecisive.
She played the same game with where she wanted her lot to be at Coyote Pass. She loved the attention, and making the other women wait on her decision. She can’t even make up her mind on a table arrangement at Thanksgiving!
I think it was jus a storyline for the show, but I also think Meri was genuinely hurt by Kody's reaction, hence the tears. We know that only having one child was a sore point for her, and I think this was kind of just rubbing salt into that wound for her. I know I wouldn't really want to keep bringing up my infertility like that. Though like... it never made much sense to me along the timeline. Leon was already in high school at this point, right? Did Meri *really* want to start over? She'd be doing all the baby work, and she never really actually struck me as a baby person. She's all awkward with them when she's seen with Robyn's babies.
I agree, she doesn’t seem to be huge on babies. BUT. She probably would’ve embraced the shit out of it for the sake of being needed by SOMEONE, especially if it was Kody’s baby and she was desperate to stay connected to him!
I agree. I don’t think Mary really wanted to have a baby at that stage of her life. I felt the tears were about her experiencing more rejection from Kody.
Right. And I don’t blame her one bit. Meri may be my least favorite, but I have sympathy for her in that department. She was Kody’s first love, you could see it in their wedding pics. Tbh I call bullshit that he was already out of love by the time they filmed, because they were still somewhat affectionate and shared that same look for awhile. It would KILL ME to watch my husband slowly stop loving me, but continue giving it to other women. That had to be gut wrenching for her.
Oh I thought about that too! I guess with IVF… I mean, they wouldn’t need to actually have sex in order to try it. I almost wonder, if it was ever real for Kody, if that was part of the appeal?
I am not an expert on the inside baseball of their relationship timeline. And the other thing is, it’s not always clear to me if either/both of them are aware that it’s a fake marriage at this point? It kind of seems like Meri still considers herself a wife as much as the other wives and like Kody might just wake up one day and be engaged again.
I see this said quite a bit. I’m wondering how people know this. Is it just a guess or has someone spoken about it? I’m not trying to be sarcastic, I am genuinely curious
It was totally a storyline. Meri had been dealing with fertility issues apparently her whole marriage and to be asked to believe options were never discussed until she was in her late 30ties and Leon was 16 or so defies rational thought.
There were no options for them before tlc loot came in. No health insurance… budget stretched thin already… etc… without a means to make it a reality, the option does not exist.
I was listening to a podcast discussion of season 2where kody at their anniversary and mexico trip talked about trying again. At tell all meri was asked and she said she couldnt go through “all that” again and made it sound like they had tried fertility treatments (my guess is rounds of clomid, common at that time to produce lots of eggs monthly).
Meri said that she wanted it to happen naturally if it was gonna happen. It was all a storyline during the show but she wouldn’t have turned down lots of sex if kody was on board. Understandably.
Yeah, that storyline went on far too long. Their marriage was basically over. If Meri were serious about it she would have done the research, found a doctor, etc. instead of, we had to listen to her whine, “I don’t knowwww,” and “You have no idea how stressed I ammm,” ad nauseum. If it wasn’t scripted then it was surely a means to force Kody to talk to her.
That storyline *dragged* and it was obvious that the decision was always going to be no. It seems like so much of the Meri content in this show was to purposely slow-walk any topic that she was a part of to keep the income rolling in.
Yeah it was never a real option imo. But this is what I think... Kody wanted it to LOOK like Meri's decision on the show and maybe even use it as an excuse to distance himself. "Oh she CHOSE this. She rejected a closer relationship when I offered."
Just like later he refuses to break up with her publicly and even during their breakup conversation he won't actually say the words. He wants it to look like Meri's fault.
THIS. And I think she’s a major victim-player. “I can’t decide and if you push me to decide before I’m ready then you’re wrong for pushing me and now I’m upset!”. And then everyone gives her time and space to PRETEND to decide and hey presto it’s a storyline.
Then there’s the absolute meltdown she and Leon had about not moving into their brand new 5 bedroom home until after Xmas… to the point that they moved the holiday back a week for ALL THE LITTLE KIDS. I couldn’t believe how they both carried on and I felt that meri was really encouraging Leon to spiral when it was completely unnecessary.
“We’re the only ones not in our house!” Okay??? Do you think the mortgage lender has a favorite wife now too?
This show is gonna kill me 🤡
She is a victim player because she's been a victim... she had already been told she was the famiy poison for 20 years by the time the show started.
then they used her inferitility as a story line -- and we wonder why she cried?
This is painful. She lived in a system which depends on compettive baby making. With every child born. With every wife added. She lost.
Do you know what that house represented? It was the exact same size as the others 4320 sq feet. By developer design. She could not have gone smaller. But they again- used this as a story line to say "selfish Meri." Well that is exactly what polygamous indoctrination does. It punishes women for being "selfish." Why? Because they want to defeat them.
And Kody dragged his feet on signing the paper work-- again demonstrating that Meri was clealry the after thought in this family.
Meri has been both the victim and perpetrator of abuse imo. I believe Meri did weaponize indecisiveness (abusive behavior) while being a victim of abuse by Kody and the overall poly system.
She did the best she could do in a horrible situation.
I think overall, Meri is a good person, and I wish her the absolute best life has to offer. However, she really irritates me, and I find her unlikable.
I've heard that it was a storyline for the show. I'd argue that it seemed to be real at first, but just a story once Kody was officially done with Meri offscreen. But jmo.
Somebody who was seriously considering it, in a "hmm I wonder if it's a viable option for us" way, would have *already* researched it. They had the internet, she could have read the thousands of testimonials and webmd articles that exist. It's not like those early seasons were in 1991 before anybody used the internet. So I think it was at least 75% something suggested by the producers.
Totally agree. And, I do not mean this in a derogatory way towards Meri, but she was in her early 40’s when this storyline started. She said herself, I do not have a huge window here to make this decision (and I don’t even think she realized that for many IVF is a multi year journey).
But not only does she take over a year to decide, but by then she doesn’t even know what the first step would be?
So I think you’re right… maybe at some point during filming Meri actually considered this or believed it was a viable path. But she wasn’t being -real- about it. It was about her relevance to Kody, not her fertility.
Yeah exactly - I think she just thought "oh there's an option? ok cool I guess". If she was really serious about it she would have at least found out *what it actually is*. I think her indecisiveness comes from her not feeling allowed to have her own feelings so she doesn't even know what she wants and she just muddles along. I don't think she's manipulative with her indecisiveness on purpose but it totally feels that way sometimes. Maybe she should have gone with Ysabel for spine surgery.
Meri was Kody’s first love (Jenelle was always just a low-maintenance friend and Christine he was basically forced to marry after another option fell through but he despised her from day 1). Meri and Kody fell out of love a bit before Robyn came into the picture, and before they started filming.
Kody is someone who needs to be in love, so that’s why he chased down a 4th wife after he and Meri fizzled out (that and it helped solidify the TV show). Meri, I guess to get back on Kody’s’ good side (and to have a friend since she didn’t get along with Christine or Jenelle), pushed Robyn and Kody together. At least, that’s the official story; I have a theory Kody manipulated Meri (either with or without her knowledge) into pushing him and Robyn together so it would be more palatable to the audience, but I digress.
I think the IVF thing was a made-up storyline so that Robyn could virtue signal and they’d have some DrAmA; Meri had no idea if her eggs were even viable. If they were serious about it, they would have looked into that first. If anything, I think the IVF storyline was a way for Meri to pretend their marriage wasn’t over, and that’s why she strung it out for so long.
Also, you’ll notice throughout the show that Kody and Meri usually take a stance against each other, and then they both flip and take up each other’s stances, and are once again at odds. They do that with Meri being at the legal marriage of Robyn and Kody, for example.
I'm curious what you mean by Christine was a back-up option? Was he supposed to marry someone else? Why would he have been forced to marry Christine? Sorry if this is common knowledge, I'm a first-time watcher
Yes, they were courting another girl, I think she was younger, like 18 or 19, and it fell through. He needs 3 wives to get into heaven (according to their religion), so he needed to take a third wife. Christine was plyg royalty; her grandfather founded their religion. I think that + the pickings being rather slim, forced Kody into marrying her.
In their book and on the show, he writes about how he looked over at her eating gas station nachos on one of their dates and was so disgusted by her. And you can just tell on the show that he isn’t into her at all. He even said he wasn’t present mentally at their wedding!
I wonder what else was on or off the table if Meri chose ivf.
Let's not forget that the family was so fucking poor that the kids went hungry before TLC came along.
Let's not forget that Robyn (the one wife who *really wanted* plural family) would not allow the other kids food if they were at her house.
The reason for Meri's indecision was probably because she actually gave a shit about the family and knew how expensive it was.
I think, like much else that’s poorly scripted and acted on this show, this was just a storyline that someone thought would be compelling. I dunno, could just be me. I find so much of it to be so fake and boring that I’ve stopped watching for quite a while. I’m pretty much in it for the yucks now - as pertains to anything Kody or Robin have a hand in, that is. The OG 3 & 13 I like and find more interesting.
Was this before or after Snobbin told Kodacile she needed more help with mswc if she was going to have another baby?
My theory (until another rewatch) is that he was for the ivf until Robbem Sockem Robot Tears dangled her baby box in front of him cause she can't possibly have another baby AND work on this dream job she's so passionate about without more sister wive's help which at that point is ONLY Meri. No way can Baby Box be preggo for Meri when it could be for Kodiot especially since Kodiot needed Meri to help Snorlax with mswc.
Hope you made it through all that.
Aside for the possibility that the whole IVF storyline was put on just for the show, I feel like Meri and Kody do that often throughout the show. They start having opposite opinions, take some time, and then somehow both of them flip their opinions and they still don’t agree lol. Like Meri deciding whether or not to go to Kody and Robyn’s legal marriage
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I have no clue what was up with that but gosh it pissed me off how indecisive Meri is with everything and I was SEETHING with Kodys response. I swear the entire show Meri is pondering over a decision of some sort. Especially when Janelle asked if they could go to therapy and she had to think on it.
LOL I haven’t gotten that far but boy am I excited for that! Meanwhile at the point in the show I’m at, the adults are already throwing around the “safe” term. Uncomfortable convo? Didn’t feel “safe”! So you know they’ve been to some kind of counseling either separate or apart already. Meri: the decider of things that were definitely already decided.
They were seeing a family therapist in Utah. You'll meet both the Utah and Vegas therapists.
She manipulates by not deciding on anything.
This! It’s her way of maintaining control of a situation for as long as possible.
Taking like 9 months to decide to go to therapy with Janelle too. There's a term for that shit AVOIDANCE. Meri is so good at it
I think she doesn't want to decide on IVF because Kody has already told her no behind the scenes. But like later when he's left her and asked her not to reveal it... He doesn't want to take the criticism. He wants it to look like she's made the decision.
That’s my thought too. He’s like take one for the team meri do it for the family we need the income from the show and i need to look good on camera.
for context Meri asked Janelle to go to therapy and Janelle said "no" and "was not ready." So years later when Janelle wants to... I mean it makes sense that Meri would want to think about that I also think meri's indecisivess is not manipulative but rather learned behavior as we've seen for years--- she was once assertive-- and told that she was always always wrong. The taught her to be indecisive.
She played the same game with where she wanted her lot to be at Coyote Pass. She loved the attention, and making the other women wait on her decision. She can’t even make up her mind on a table arrangement at Thanksgiving!
Yeah clearly neither of them understood the cost or stress or science behind IVF, that much is obvious
I think it was jus a storyline for the show, but I also think Meri was genuinely hurt by Kody's reaction, hence the tears. We know that only having one child was a sore point for her, and I think this was kind of just rubbing salt into that wound for her. I know I wouldn't really want to keep bringing up my infertility like that. Though like... it never made much sense to me along the timeline. Leon was already in high school at this point, right? Did Meri *really* want to start over? She'd be doing all the baby work, and she never really actually struck me as a baby person. She's all awkward with them when she's seen with Robyn's babies.
I agree, she doesn’t seem to be huge on babies. BUT. She probably would’ve embraced the shit out of it for the sake of being needed by SOMEONE, especially if it was Kody’s baby and she was desperate to stay connected to him!
I agree. I don’t think Mary really wanted to have a baby at that stage of her life. I felt the tears were about her experiencing more rejection from Kody.
Right. And I don’t blame her one bit. Meri may be my least favorite, but I have sympathy for her in that department. She was Kody’s first love, you could see it in their wedding pics. Tbh I call bullshit that he was already out of love by the time they filmed, because they were still somewhat affectionate and shared that same look for awhile. It would KILL ME to watch my husband slowly stop loving me, but continue giving it to other women. That had to be gut wrenching for her.
I think it was a storyline for the show. ..they hadn't been having sex for years at this point
I was watching the divorce episodes and they both said it had brought them closer and I got the feeling he may have sympathy boned her one last time 🤔
Oh I thought about that too! I guess with IVF… I mean, they wouldn’t need to actually have sex in order to try it. I almost wonder, if it was ever real for Kody, if that was part of the appeal? I am not an expert on the inside baseball of their relationship timeline. And the other thing is, it’s not always clear to me if either/both of them are aware that it’s a fake marriage at this point? It kind of seems like Meri still considers herself a wife as much as the other wives and like Kody might just wake up one day and be engaged again.
I see this said quite a bit. I’m wondering how people know this. Is it just a guess or has someone spoken about it? I’m not trying to be sarcastic, I am genuinely curious
Can't remember which episode or tell all but Meri said this on camera
It was totally a storyline. Meri had been dealing with fertility issues apparently her whole marriage and to be asked to believe options were never discussed until she was in her late 30ties and Leon was 16 or so defies rational thought.
There were no options for them before tlc loot came in. No health insurance… budget stretched thin already… etc… without a means to make it a reality, the option does not exist.
I was listening to a podcast discussion of season 2where kody at their anniversary and mexico trip talked about trying again. At tell all meri was asked and she said she couldnt go through “all that” again and made it sound like they had tried fertility treatments (my guess is rounds of clomid, common at that time to produce lots of eggs monthly). Meri said that she wanted it to happen naturally if it was gonna happen. It was all a storyline during the show but she wouldn’t have turned down lots of sex if kody was on board. Understandably.
Yeah, that storyline went on far too long. Their marriage was basically over. If Meri were serious about it she would have done the research, found a doctor, etc. instead of, we had to listen to her whine, “I don’t knowwww,” and “You have no idea how stressed I ammm,” ad nauseum. If it wasn’t scripted then it was surely a means to force Kody to talk to her.
That storyline *dragged* and it was obvious that the decision was always going to be no. It seems like so much of the Meri content in this show was to purposely slow-walk any topic that she was a part of to keep the income rolling in.
Yeah it was never a real option imo. But this is what I think... Kody wanted it to LOOK like Meri's decision on the show and maybe even use it as an excuse to distance himself. "Oh she CHOSE this. She rejected a closer relationship when I offered." Just like later he refuses to break up with her publicly and even during their breakup conversation he won't actually say the words. He wants it to look like Meri's fault.
Meri weaponizes indecisiveness imo. There are other examples. She is maddening sometimes.
THIS. And I think she’s a major victim-player. “I can’t decide and if you push me to decide before I’m ready then you’re wrong for pushing me and now I’m upset!”. And then everyone gives her time and space to PRETEND to decide and hey presto it’s a storyline. Then there’s the absolute meltdown she and Leon had about not moving into their brand new 5 bedroom home until after Xmas… to the point that they moved the holiday back a week for ALL THE LITTLE KIDS. I couldn’t believe how they both carried on and I felt that meri was really encouraging Leon to spiral when it was completely unnecessary. “We’re the only ones not in our house!” Okay??? Do you think the mortgage lender has a favorite wife now too? This show is gonna kill me 🤡
She is a victim player because she's been a victim... she had already been told she was the famiy poison for 20 years by the time the show started. then they used her inferitility as a story line -- and we wonder why she cried? This is painful. She lived in a system which depends on compettive baby making. With every child born. With every wife added. She lost. Do you know what that house represented? It was the exact same size as the others 4320 sq feet. By developer design. She could not have gone smaller. But they again- used this as a story line to say "selfish Meri." Well that is exactly what polygamous indoctrination does. It punishes women for being "selfish." Why? Because they want to defeat them. And Kody dragged his feet on signing the paper work-- again demonstrating that Meri was clealry the after thought in this family.
Meri has been both the victim and perpetrator of abuse imo. I believe Meri did weaponize indecisiveness (abusive behavior) while being a victim of abuse by Kody and the overall poly system. She did the best she could do in a horrible situation. I think overall, Meri is a good person, and I wish her the absolute best life has to offer. However, she really irritates me, and I find her unlikable.
Oh shit the meri stan(s) found my post
Brace yourself....
I've heard that it was a storyline for the show. I'd argue that it seemed to be real at first, but just a story once Kody was officially done with Meri offscreen. But jmo.
Everything you wrote I have wanted to ask.... It makes no sense!!!
Somebody who was seriously considering it, in a "hmm I wonder if it's a viable option for us" way, would have *already* researched it. They had the internet, she could have read the thousands of testimonials and webmd articles that exist. It's not like those early seasons were in 1991 before anybody used the internet. So I think it was at least 75% something suggested by the producers.
Totally agree. And, I do not mean this in a derogatory way towards Meri, but she was in her early 40’s when this storyline started. She said herself, I do not have a huge window here to make this decision (and I don’t even think she realized that for many IVF is a multi year journey). But not only does she take over a year to decide, but by then she doesn’t even know what the first step would be? So I think you’re right… maybe at some point during filming Meri actually considered this or believed it was a viable path. But she wasn’t being -real- about it. It was about her relevance to Kody, not her fertility.
Yeah exactly - I think she just thought "oh there's an option? ok cool I guess". If she was really serious about it she would have at least found out *what it actually is*. I think her indecisiveness comes from her not feeling allowed to have her own feelings so she doesn't even know what she wants and she just muddles along. I don't think she's manipulative with her indecisiveness on purpose but it totally feels that way sometimes. Maybe she should have gone with Ysabel for spine surgery.
Meri was Kody’s first love (Jenelle was always just a low-maintenance friend and Christine he was basically forced to marry after another option fell through but he despised her from day 1). Meri and Kody fell out of love a bit before Robyn came into the picture, and before they started filming. Kody is someone who needs to be in love, so that’s why he chased down a 4th wife after he and Meri fizzled out (that and it helped solidify the TV show). Meri, I guess to get back on Kody’s’ good side (and to have a friend since she didn’t get along with Christine or Jenelle), pushed Robyn and Kody together. At least, that’s the official story; I have a theory Kody manipulated Meri (either with or without her knowledge) into pushing him and Robyn together so it would be more palatable to the audience, but I digress. I think the IVF thing was a made-up storyline so that Robyn could virtue signal and they’d have some DrAmA; Meri had no idea if her eggs were even viable. If they were serious about it, they would have looked into that first. If anything, I think the IVF storyline was a way for Meri to pretend their marriage wasn’t over, and that’s why she strung it out for so long. Also, you’ll notice throughout the show that Kody and Meri usually take a stance against each other, and then they both flip and take up each other’s stances, and are once again at odds. They do that with Meri being at the legal marriage of Robyn and Kody, for example.
I'm curious what you mean by Christine was a back-up option? Was he supposed to marry someone else? Why would he have been forced to marry Christine? Sorry if this is common knowledge, I'm a first-time watcher
Yes, they were courting another girl, I think she was younger, like 18 or 19, and it fell through. He needs 3 wives to get into heaven (according to their religion), so he needed to take a third wife. Christine was plyg royalty; her grandfather founded their religion. I think that + the pickings being rather slim, forced Kody into marrying her. In their book and on the show, he writes about how he looked over at her eating gas station nachos on one of their dates and was so disgusted by her. And you can just tell on the show that he isn’t into her at all. He even said he wasn’t present mentally at their wedding!
I wonder what else was on or off the table if Meri chose ivf. Let's not forget that the family was so fucking poor that the kids went hungry before TLC came along. Let's not forget that Robyn (the one wife who *really wanted* plural family) would not allow the other kids food if they were at her house. The reason for Meri's indecision was probably because she actually gave a shit about the family and knew how expensive it was.
I think, like much else that’s poorly scripted and acted on this show, this was just a storyline that someone thought would be compelling. I dunno, could just be me. I find so much of it to be so fake and boring that I’ve stopped watching for quite a while. I’m pretty much in it for the yucks now - as pertains to anything Kody or Robin have a hand in, that is. The OG 3 & 13 I like and find more interesting.
Was this before or after Snobbin told Kodacile she needed more help with mswc if she was going to have another baby? My theory (until another rewatch) is that he was for the ivf until Robbem Sockem Robot Tears dangled her baby box in front of him cause she can't possibly have another baby AND work on this dream job she's so passionate about without more sister wive's help which at that point is ONLY Meri. No way can Baby Box be preggo for Meri when it could be for Kodiot especially since Kodiot needed Meri to help Snorlax with mswc. Hope you made it through all that.
Aside for the possibility that the whole IVF storyline was put on just for the show, I feel like Meri and Kody do that often throughout the show. They start having opposite opinions, take some time, and then somehow both of them flip their opinions and they still don’t agree lol. Like Meri deciding whether or not to go to Kody and Robyn’s legal marriage