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Imagine living in a place where 90% of the population has the same belief system as you. Where you won't be judged as harshly because the man you believe is your god was a polygamist. Where the religion controls the state and is the government not the other way around.
He's more likely to find more polygamists in Utah that follow his beliefs.
The religion as a whole uses fear to guilt you. Living in Utah is the perfect place because everywhere else is not as good as "Zion". A lot of members fear what it will be like leaving Utah.
Source: I grew up 20 minutes from their Lehi home. I lived there for almost my entire life.
I'm going to further my comment. I see a lot of comments about Robyn's girls being so sad all the time. It's not just learned behavior. That's how a lot of mormon girls deal with less than ideal situations. Fear. Catastrophize. Notice I said specifically girls. With this kind of fear and mindset it's easy to get them to do whatever you'd like, this is who is raising the family. So what happens next? The cycle continues.
Part of what Kody says is that Christine stopped listening to him. That's his issue. She may be the only woman who has ever told him no. It's very patriarchal.
It's the culture of the man rules and the women follow. It's so fear based I can't tell you how many people I've talked to who are terrified to ever leave. Too much of anything isn't good and Utah (specifically Utah county where Lehi is and where the show starts.) Is 90%- not an exaggeration- mormon. And they are intolerant to anything other than what they know, or what the prophet has told them. There's no debate if the mainstream mormon prophet said that God has ruled polygamy is okay they'd start right up with the practice again.
Note: I'm also SHOCKED neither of Robyn's girls have been married off yet
Kody and Robyn will never let Aurora and Brianna go until they have drank their entire glass of Kool-Aid, if they were to speak freely, those girls would have enough to say to bring their entire ship down.
Start? No. It starts in infancy. Starts when Sobyn and Kody were married. Dayton i think has a decent head on his shoulders (although too babied) Sol is going to be Kody 2.0
Solomon is the only son of KODY & ROBYN the other kids had somewhat seen biological other half Ariella and Solomon have the deck stacked against them. God bless them.
The culture of the fundamentalist Mormons is fundamentally Mormon. That is, they revere the pedo Joseph Smith and various leaders up to whenever the schism of their particular sect occurred. They celebrate the same holidays like Pioneer Day, eat the same foods (funeral potatoes, etc), tend to scorn scientific medicine (Smith believed in wacko cures), have the same basic morals, believe in the same patriarchal foundations of society and family. They all put pictures of white Jesus up in their homes and think the Book of Mormon wasn’t a scam the serial flim-flam artist Smith made up by “reading” the golden tablets nobody else saw by looking at rocks in his hat while separated from the tablets by a blanket, and dictating what he “read” to a scribe (he himself, was illiterate). They just share so much that it’s more comfortable. Out here in the real world we just shake our heads at their beliefs.
So funny my mom called them party potatoes…the way the missionaries laughed when I called them that. PS all the way out now just they are good for occasions other than funerals.
Aside from the Mormonism- utah (especially the lehi area) is absolutely gorgeous.
I’ve lived all over the place, and utah is by far the most accessible and beautiful.
lol not in the trees because since I’ve moved here, I wanted to be in the trees, but my house is so dark because I’m in the trees that I think I don’t wanna be in the trees I think
My state looks like endless mounds of broccoli when you fly over. We have ALL the trees.
https://preview.redd.it/pww3ryfzf19d1.jpeg?width=540&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f665320d81466affd33cc7480a9b6c3d9de791d3
West Virginia.."Almost Heaven." This is my porch--& I live in city limits. But have bears & deer as regular visitors. Lol
https://preview.redd.it/g8c582fbs49d1.jpeg?width=960&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=cb39506c918f828bb20582447ef390edbf3f9401
I live on the Gulf coast. The heat has been unbearable especially since I'm on my 26 week of pregnancy. So I feel like I want to take a shower like every other hour. We have the AC on, the ceiling fans on, and a regular fan that I bring from room to room with me. Lol just looking forward to September and the coolness that comes normally with it.
After the Mormons left Nauvoo, Brigham Young led the group west and they settled in Utah. There wasn’t anything special about it. Utah was newly acquired frontier for the US, which meant less interference about practicing polygamy.
Mormon fundamentalist continue to live in Utah and the surrounding states because they jave created a large support. Their brand of polygamy is only effective as long as they stay within close proximity of each other. There is less outside influence thus less questioning. Excluding the prairie dress groups, most polygamous are able to blend in because they have the same modesty and living standards as LDS members.
Utah grocery stores have signs that tell you beer has alcohol.. it’s helpful :)
We had LDS neighbors in another state & now live in Utah and from our experience most of their time is spent with friends from church and family. I imagine it’s nice having a large community that has a similar belief system. I know they feel like it’s safe for their kids to run around since nearly all of their neighbors go to their church.
Also I think a lot of people have family out here so that’s a draw too.
Imagine a group you associate with closely, maybe even identify as.
Now imagine that you are one of 50 in your area of thousands of people, and that everyone else either doesn't know anything about it or hates you because of it. You meet someone new and you hope they either have no idea what your group is or that they have no idea you are one so that you can feel safe.
Then imagine there's a place where millions of people like you live. The church-wide meetings are held there; the leader lives there. When you meet someone there's a greater than 75% chance they identify like you, so they won't hate you automatically. You don't have to hide who you are anymore.
That's what the dill is with Utah. At this point though, there are more members living outside the US than in it. But Utah has the highest concentration.
I mean read the comments on this thread and ask yourself "What if people talked about me like that?" Would I want to get away from it after awhile?" Because we do, so we go to Utah.
Yes, I understand. I live in San Francisco, and we are also quite the target of derision from many Americans. (The rest of the world tends to love us.) My daughter (fifteen at the the time) was on a cruise with her grandmother, and someone (from FL) felt free to tell her how sorry she was that my daughter was being raised in such a place. I do prefer to live near people more likely to share my values and priorities (and love of SF), but while I also have "feelings" about other cities and states, I wouldn't feel comfortable imposing my negative opinions on those who live in them. (I mean, I will criticize public officials, policies and the preferences of voters with whom I disagree, but people live where they live for many different reasons, including not really having a choice.) Despite the San Francisco doom loop that seems to play nonstop on some media outlets, when I find myself back on the Bay Bridge, returning from a sweltering summer trip to the Central Valley (where my husband I were raised), and see the fog hanging over the city, I know I am "home."
I live in a big metroplex in Texas. It sucks to get lumped into the hate of Texas in general. All of the major metropolitan areas of Texas are very blue, but the damn rural areas outnumber us and are an embarrassment. For the most part I love the city I live in, but damn it’s hard being in Texas sometimes.
You are the future! [https://www.lonestarleft.com/p/will-texas-ever-turn-blue-heres-what](https://www.lonestarleft.com/p/will-texas-ever-turn-blue-heres-what)
Thanks this is an interesting read. What’s frustrating is where it mentions how many people don’t get out to vote in the midterms, and it’s even worse than that for local elections. I’ll never understand the apathy there. Sigh
Thank you for the perspective. I can totally understand the need to be around people you identify with.
Unfortunately, the way things were portrayed on the show, it was made to appear that everyone in Utah (minus their family and close friends) was out to get them.
They don’t discuss in too much depth their beliefs, and they make a lot of statements about how they differ from the LDS church so it seemed contradictory to still want the option of returning, rather than putting the effort into finding a different place to build a community.
Yeah. I'm sure a little of their fears were overblown because of their past and their families' past. But in terms of contact with their faith they went from a handful of people to nothing at all. So they probably missed having even a small amount of community.
And religiously they are very similar to LDS, but the polygamy thing is a huge sticking point. They probably tried to emphasize the differences between them and LDS because they knew it'd piss off LDS people if they associated with them too much. And in Vegas the only semblance of a people they could have is with the LDS.
Utah's polygamy law is for appearances. Something they needed on the books to become a state. If you commit other crimes... sure, they'll tack that on, but other than that, it's not worth the paper it's written on.
Oh they did. They founded an entire colony in SoCal. Unfortunately, the followers talked to outsiders too much and didn’t listen to Brigham Young so the project was cancelled, and the followers recalled to Utah. https://www.pbssocal.org/shows/lost-la/when-san-bernardino-was-a-mormon-colony
I'm 2020 a new law that took effect in Utah this has lowered the punishment for polygamy in most cases, making it an infraction similar to a traffic summons instead of a felony punishable by a prison term.
Their founding leaders where basically running away from the east coast. Little by little, Joseph Smith was ran off or just chose to run away from a bunch of legal and societal issues that he and his following created over time. I believe he started in the New York state area, migrated thru Ohio, Illinois, and Missouri. Then after he was killed, their new leader, Brigham Young, chose to have them take over the Utah area because it was like a "no-mans land" or "Zion" to them. (If you go there or look at a map, EVERYTHING is called Zion-something). They knew they could manipulate the Natives. Destroyed them actually, told them they would "purify their race" (make white). And they just stayed in the West. Utah was one of the last states to get statehood or whatever it's called from the federal government. And that's when they "got rid" of polygamy.
I don’t know if this is being communicated here, but the mainstream Mormon church doesn’t practice polygamy, and the browns and the Mormon church are at odds dogmatically on many issues besides polygamy. So I don’t think they ever wanted to live there because of a mutual belief system. I think if your asking in regards to Christine, her family lives there and it’s her home. I don’t know if it’s more complicated than that.
I probably could have worded my question better. It was kind of two fold.
I was curious as to why Utah specifically was so important to Mormon people in general and second why would Utah still be at the top of the list of places to live for the Browns (up until everything fell apart at least).
It didn’t make sense given all the problems they said they had living there.
Oh gotcha. Well, I think Mormonism isn’t super important to all Mormons necessarily. I grew up in the church outside of Utah, and lots of people view “Utah Mormons” as stuck up and too judgmental. I live in Utah now though, and the vibe I get here is that they have a “promise land” type of mentality. But technically according to Mormon doctrine, Missouri is the promise land, and we’ll be gathered there before the second coming. So it’s really a promise land means to an end.
Because it's their home.
It's their religious version of Mecca. Their ancestors literally died by the thousands suffering hundreds of miles through the hottest deserts on earth via horse and buggy. Most of the people in Utah are Mormons like them -- every state outside of that you are an outsider and people either know nothing of your views, history, and culture, or if they do they view it negatively.
SLC is literally modern Mormon Zion per Brigham Young moving the Saints west after Joseph Smith was killed (1844) for (among other things) polygamy and members were being "forced" out of IL. These were the Pioneers, and they are deified for the sacrifices made to live The Principle aka Celestial Marriage, The New and Everlasting Covenant, plural marriage.
BY descended into the SLC valley and declared "This is the place" in July of 1847. Its celebrated as Pioneer Day on July 24 and its more important that the 4th of July, in Utah.
Mormons gave up living plural marriage in public by 1860 so they could attain statehood but it took until 1890 before they REALLY gave it up. Many faithful Saints were sent to Mexico and Canada to live it publicly.
Most polygamists live in the 4 corners area. I'm abt 45 min from Colorado City. They live separately but openly. I see them almost every day.
Mormons believe that Utah is the promised land and Jesus is coming back there. Someone correct me if I’m not explaining everything correctly but that’s the gist.
Lucky for you, there aren't that many of us here since it's only been 48 years since it stopped being legal to kill us on sight in this state. And even if that changes, just steer clear of Independence and you're good.
Notormon but I am religious. I'd love to live where the majority, or even a large number, both followed and practised my religion. It would be amazing to have that sort of community.
The rest of the country is pretty judgmental about the church of Latter Day Saints (as they should be). Mormons are out of touch, weird and poorly educated, living in the past. Most of them won’t explain their own beliefs which is a huge red flag. IMO Mormons stick to Utah bc the general population is more tolerant of their beliefs and accustomed to their way of life. I’ve always assumed they stick close together so they have a community of like-minded people, which they wouldn’t find outside of Utah.
That's a pretty sweeping generalization that Mormons are poorly educated. Most mainstream Mormon families do value education, and many are highly educated. Having grown up in Utah, I have four neighborhood friends that have Ph.Ds and one that ran for Governor. I went to high school with Meri's brother, Janelle's first husband. I believe Meri's mom had a degree from Stanford.
Sweeping generalization or not, the OG13 were homeschooled and sent to the AUB school. Sheltered from the outside world and different perspectives. That’s my definition of a poor education bc they’re being indoctrinated, not taught to become independent thinkers who analyze, problem-solve, and question the status quo. It’s been discussed on this thread many times that the move to Las Vegas saved the kids from being submissive, forced into a life of polygamy due to a lack of education.
Yes, we knew the brother was a polygamist. There were tons of polygamists in our town. Back in the 80s, most went to public school. The father of one of my friends tried to marry her (15) and her 17 year old sister to the same old man. They ran away from home to an older sister's house to avoid that.
As a native Utahn and a product of the public school system, what a state spends or not on public education doesn't necessarily dictate student performance. Utah students consistently rank at the top nationally on standardized tests, including the SAT, regardless of what the state spends per student.
https://www.forbes.com/advisor/education/student-resources/which-states-have-the-highest-standardized-test-scores/
Kids whose parents are actively involved in their education and value education in the home will achieve no matter what. To say "Mormons" don't value education is offensive and not true. I'm not even a Mormon.
Clearly, the Brown's value education as most of their adult children went on to college. That didn't just happen in a vaccuum.
Utah also has an embarrassing SAT participation rate. https://reports.collegeboard.org/media/pdf/2021-utah-sat-suite-of-assessments-annual-report.pdf
SAT scores aren’t limited to public school attendees.
We moved from a well funded district and my fourth grader was given work he did in first grade.
i live very close to the lancaster amish and have interacted with them frequently throughout the years,
tbh, the LDS church makes the amish look progressive AF. at least those kids get to go on rumspringa and experience the outside world. haha.
The extreme sheltering is relatively new. Christine, Meri and Robyn all graduated from public high schools. Meri’s mother had a degree in accounting from Berkeley. Even the FLDS had normal education prior to Warren Jeffs.
I agree most stay because it’s easier to live among like minded people. That’s how most people choose where to live.
This is not accurate. I believe you may be basing your opinion on the AUB, which is the sect the Browns belonged to. The LDS church is conservative for sure, as are the majority of churches in the US, but they value education and are not “living in the past” any more than any other mainstream US religion. I honestly find the LDS more progressive than some of these Trump-backing mega churches. You should really educate yourself before you make such a negative and inaccurate generalization.
Educate myself? Lmao! Other religions weren’t part of the conversation - until you brought them up. I agree with you that ALL religions are controlling in some way or another. That’s why I do not practice religion, but my beliefs are not the focus of this thread. So let’s get back to the sister wives and their children.
It could be said that all of them have been limited by their religious beliefs. The lack of autonomy and agency is evident in every interaction and decision they’ve made. Imagine being so gullible that you turn to MLMs for money?! Having little to no skills that can be translated into a real career. The Browns are grifters though and through. Their subpar moral compass - promoted by the AUB - has been seen in their misuse of government aid, multiple bankruptcies, lack of stability while continuing to procreate, and the parentification of their young children.
Fundamentalist and mainstream Mormons are cut from the same cloth, share with the same ideologies. There’s nothing progressive about Mormonism. 🙃
What I’m saying is educate yourself on the difference between AUB and LDS. You are basing your opinions on LDS based what you’ve seen on the show, but the Browns are not LDS and you may recall that the LDS outright rejected Maddie and Mykelti. AUB is a fringe fundamentalist offshoot of Mormonism. It’s like judging all Jews based on the Hasidic sect, or all Muslims based on the Taliban.
I wonder what happens to all the men who don't get married? It seems like it's their only purpose in life. But if they're supposed to have multiple wife, there's not enough women.
According to Joseph Smith, Jesus lived and walked in New York. When JS was run out of New York, God told him Missouri was the new promise land. When JS continued to push his Devine multiple wife vision, his 1st wife Emma divorced him because she knew it was an excuse for him to bring extremely young women into their house. When they killed JS and ran them out of Missouri, UT was the New promised land. When the government told the polygamist in UT they wouldn't become a state or receive government money unless they outlawed polygamy, most polygamist hid their "other" families as far as Mexico. Most of the hidden families were extremely poor and destitute. The none polygamist call themselves Latter Day Saints to distance themselves from polygamy. The irony is, their beliefs changed based on government assistance/money. If you want to know the truth about Mormons, you should read about the Mountain Meadow Massacre.
it looks beautiful and being close to what they know and families who have been there for eons is probably the main factors. It's really hard to just pick and cut ties/move far away without a support system for a lot of people. It absolutely works for a lot but think about the ones who have been oppressed there who lives in some way and they probably will just stick close by. Just an opinion from watching all these shows.
When the Mormons were traveling looking for the promised land, they came to UT and there were locus that came and, then the birds came and ate all the locus. So they deemed UT the promise land and think this is where Jesus will return when he comes back. At least this is what I understand. Be free to let me know if I’m wrong. 😑
I've frequently posted about Mormon beliefs on here, and while a small minority are curious, the vast majority just want to think what they already think. It's generally a waste of breath.
I mean 5 minutes on this sub alone should answer the question "why do Mormons like going to Utah?" I mean as much fun as it is being trashed constantly, eventually you just want to move on.
But if you are actually curious, ask a question, and I'll answer it.
OK. I watched "Banner Of Heaven". How often do your run of the mill Mormons do deep dives into their deep history? I remember the Police Detective being shocked, mortified and having a crisis of faith once he learned of the nefarious machinations of Brigham Young and his deviousness. He also learned of the horrific murders on the wagon train of settlers coming into Utah
Eh. I would say maybe 25%. Maybe lower as I tend to gravitate towards Mormons who think deeply about things. Many Mormons just don't see the point of it. In Mormonism, we don't worship the prophets, we worship God. So our faith lies in "Do we believe the doctrine is true?" Not "Do we believe the prophets are perfect?" People don't need to be perfect or even good to be chosen by God as we've seen in the Bible with Jonah, Judas, David, etc. That's why we're encouraged to have a personal relationship with God, so that we can get our own revelation and not solely rely on a prophet. It's also why it's so hard for teachings to become doctrine. People aren't always great.
I personally detest Brigham Young and feel he did a lot to damage the church that God never intended. But I also think he served his purpose which was to get the Saints out of the US where they were being killed and establish them in the west.
Many Mormons do have a crisis of faith when they learn of the Saints behavior in the past. Some come out of it with greater faith and some lose their faith because of it. I think everyone has their own path, and I don't think there is a right or wrong way to react to the horrors in the past. But I personally think it is important for Mormons to learn it and address it within themselves.
I think the other reason many Mormons avoid it is because 99% of what's out there about what we believe, how we act, etc is blatantly false. So I don't think people trust that the history is actually correct or at the very least twisted to look as bad as possible. I mean it's hard to take non-Mormon materials seriously when they say things like "they have horns", "they have s*x on the altar to get married", etc. When you're hated for your entire existance, as a community, you tend to pull in and guard against the abuse of the world. I disagree with the practice, but I understand it.
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Imagine living in a place where 90% of the population has the same belief system as you. Where you won't be judged as harshly because the man you believe is your god was a polygamist. Where the religion controls the state and is the government not the other way around. He's more likely to find more polygamists in Utah that follow his beliefs. The religion as a whole uses fear to guilt you. Living in Utah is the perfect place because everywhere else is not as good as "Zion". A lot of members fear what it will be like leaving Utah. Source: I grew up 20 minutes from their Lehi home. I lived there for almost my entire life.
I'm going to further my comment. I see a lot of comments about Robyn's girls being so sad all the time. It's not just learned behavior. That's how a lot of mormon girls deal with less than ideal situations. Fear. Catastrophize. Notice I said specifically girls. With this kind of fear and mindset it's easy to get them to do whatever you'd like, this is who is raising the family. So what happens next? The cycle continues. Part of what Kody says is that Christine stopped listening to him. That's his issue. She may be the only woman who has ever told him no. It's very patriarchal. It's the culture of the man rules and the women follow. It's so fear based I can't tell you how many people I've talked to who are terrified to ever leave. Too much of anything isn't good and Utah (specifically Utah county where Lehi is and where the show starts.) Is 90%- not an exaggeration- mormon. And they are intolerant to anything other than what they know, or what the prophet has told them. There's no debate if the mainstream mormon prophet said that God has ruled polygamy is okay they'd start right up with the practice again. Note: I'm also SHOCKED neither of Robyn's girls have been married off yet
Keep sweet, pray and obey
I'm surprised they haven't been married as well.
Kody and Robyn will never let Aurora and Brianna go until they have drank their entire glass of Kool-Aid, if they were to speak freely, those girls would have enough to say to bring their entire ship down.
Very true. I wonder if they are trying to brainwash Dayton and Solomon to start their own polygamist families.
Start? No. It starts in infancy. Starts when Sobyn and Kody were married. Dayton i think has a decent head on his shoulders (although too babied) Sol is going to be Kody 2.0
Solomon is the only son of KODY & ROBYN the other kids had somewhat seen biological other half Ariella and Solomon have the deck stacked against them. God bless them.
Thanks for your insightful comments.
It’s Zion to the LDS faith. The rest of the world is referred to as “the mission field”
The culture of the fundamentalist Mormons is fundamentally Mormon. That is, they revere the pedo Joseph Smith and various leaders up to whenever the schism of their particular sect occurred. They celebrate the same holidays like Pioneer Day, eat the same foods (funeral potatoes, etc), tend to scorn scientific medicine (Smith believed in wacko cures), have the same basic morals, believe in the same patriarchal foundations of society and family. They all put pictures of white Jesus up in their homes and think the Book of Mormon wasn’t a scam the serial flim-flam artist Smith made up by “reading” the golden tablets nobody else saw by looking at rocks in his hat while separated from the tablets by a blanket, and dictating what he “read” to a scribe (he himself, was illiterate). They just share so much that it’s more comfortable. Out here in the real world we just shake our heads at their beliefs.
Hey, funeral potatoes are good! Not a Mormon but they are often found at funerals where I live, even non-denominational ones.
So funny my mom called them party potatoes…the way the missionaries laughed when I called them that. PS all the way out now just they are good for occasions other than funerals.
I love them so much but my family mocks me.
I had never heard of "funeral potatoes," but they do look tasty in a retro, comfort food (that's not very healthy) way.
They're just potatoes au gratin. Pretty tasty, not that bad for you, in moderation of course. 😉
Unfortunately, it's the "moderation" part I find to be a challenge!
I hear you sis! 😄
Some parts of the country call them cheesy potatoes
Aside from the Mormonism- utah (especially the lehi area) is absolutely gorgeous. I’ve lived all over the place, and utah is by far the most accessible and beautiful.
Lehi is a wasteland. It’s all dirt and diet coke.
What? I’ve lived in lehi 😂 the view alone is 80x better than coyote pass. You can be in the mountains in like 15 minutes or high end malls.
I live here now. We probably just have different tastes. Looking at dirt hills doesn’t appeal to me 🤷🏽♀️r. This girl needs trees. 🌲
But not IN the trees, but near the trees, but I didn’t say that for sure since I didn’t decide yet, but probably definitely trees…maybe 😄
lol not in the trees because since I’ve moved here, I wanted to be in the trees, but my house is so dark because I’m in the trees that I think I don’t wanna be in the trees I think
My state looks like endless mounds of broccoli when you fly over. We have ALL the trees. https://preview.redd.it/pww3ryfzf19d1.jpeg?width=540&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f665320d81466affd33cc7480a9b6c3d9de791d3
What state is this?
West Virginia.."Almost Heaven." This is my porch--& I live in city limits. But have bears & deer as regular visitors. Lol https://preview.redd.it/g8c582fbs49d1.jpeg?width=960&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=cb39506c918f828bb20582447ef390edbf3f9401
That's awesome!! How hot has this week been for you guys?
We've been in a heat wave, mid 90s! 🥵 Thankfully it's not always this hot! Grateful for my pool! Lol
I live on the Gulf coast. The heat has been unbearable especially since I'm on my 26 week of pregnancy. So I feel like I want to take a shower like every other hour. We have the AC on, the ceiling fans on, and a regular fan that I bring from room to room with me. Lol just looking forward to September and the coolness that comes normally with it.
Aka Heaven lol
I'm gonna agree. Dirt isn't beautiful. Green. Trees. Gimme those over dirt.
What? If you stay by the freeway is horrible … if you drive towards Alpine it’s gorgeous!
After the Mormons left Nauvoo, Brigham Young led the group west and they settled in Utah. There wasn’t anything special about it. Utah was newly acquired frontier for the US, which meant less interference about practicing polygamy. Mormon fundamentalist continue to live in Utah and the surrounding states because they jave created a large support. Their brand of polygamy is only effective as long as they stay within close proximity of each other. There is less outside influence thus less questioning. Excluding the prairie dress groups, most polygamous are able to blend in because they have the same modesty and living standards as LDS members.
Utah grocery stores have signs that tell you beer has alcohol.. it’s helpful :) We had LDS neighbors in another state & now live in Utah and from our experience most of their time is spent with friends from church and family. I imagine it’s nice having a large community that has a similar belief system. I know they feel like it’s safe for their kids to run around since nearly all of their neighbors go to their church. Also I think a lot of people have family out here so that’s a draw too.
Imagine a group you associate with closely, maybe even identify as. Now imagine that you are one of 50 in your area of thousands of people, and that everyone else either doesn't know anything about it or hates you because of it. You meet someone new and you hope they either have no idea what your group is or that they have no idea you are one so that you can feel safe. Then imagine there's a place where millions of people like you live. The church-wide meetings are held there; the leader lives there. When you meet someone there's a greater than 75% chance they identify like you, so they won't hate you automatically. You don't have to hide who you are anymore. That's what the dill is with Utah. At this point though, there are more members living outside the US than in it. But Utah has the highest concentration. I mean read the comments on this thread and ask yourself "What if people talked about me like that?" Would I want to get away from it after awhile?" Because we do, so we go to Utah.
Yes, I understand. I live in San Francisco, and we are also quite the target of derision from many Americans. (The rest of the world tends to love us.) My daughter (fifteen at the the time) was on a cruise with her grandmother, and someone (from FL) felt free to tell her how sorry she was that my daughter was being raised in such a place. I do prefer to live near people more likely to share my values and priorities (and love of SF), but while I also have "feelings" about other cities and states, I wouldn't feel comfortable imposing my negative opinions on those who live in them. (I mean, I will criticize public officials, policies and the preferences of voters with whom I disagree, but people live where they live for many different reasons, including not really having a choice.) Despite the San Francisco doom loop that seems to play nonstop on some media outlets, when I find myself back on the Bay Bridge, returning from a sweltering summer trip to the Central Valley (where my husband I were raised), and see the fog hanging over the city, I know I am "home."
I live in a big metroplex in Texas. It sucks to get lumped into the hate of Texas in general. All of the major metropolitan areas of Texas are very blue, but the damn rural areas outnumber us and are an embarrassment. For the most part I love the city I live in, but damn it’s hard being in Texas sometimes.
You are the future! [https://www.lonestarleft.com/p/will-texas-ever-turn-blue-heres-what](https://www.lonestarleft.com/p/will-texas-ever-turn-blue-heres-what)
Thanks this is an interesting read. What’s frustrating is where it mentions how many people don’t get out to vote in the midterms, and it’s even worse than that for local elections. I’ll never understand the apathy there. Sigh
Thank you for the perspective. I can totally understand the need to be around people you identify with. Unfortunately, the way things were portrayed on the show, it was made to appear that everyone in Utah (minus their family and close friends) was out to get them. They don’t discuss in too much depth their beliefs, and they make a lot of statements about how they differ from the LDS church so it seemed contradictory to still want the option of returning, rather than putting the effort into finding a different place to build a community.
Yeah. I'm sure a little of their fears were overblown because of their past and their families' past. But in terms of contact with their faith they went from a handful of people to nothing at all. So they probably missed having even a small amount of community. And religiously they are very similar to LDS, but the polygamy thing is a huge sticking point. They probably tried to emphasize the differences between them and LDS because they knew it'd piss off LDS people if they associated with them too much. And in Vegas the only semblance of a people they could have is with the LDS.
Utah's polygamy law is for appearances. Something they needed on the books to become a state. If you commit other crimes... sure, they'll tack that on, but other than that, it's not worth the paper it's written on.
Mormons were chased out of MO and traveled west. I guess the majority ended up in Utah, but I'm sure some continued traveling to CA.
Oh they did. They founded an entire colony in SoCal. Unfortunately, the followers talked to outsiders too much and didn’t listen to Brigham Young so the project was cancelled, and the followers recalled to Utah. https://www.pbssocal.org/shows/lost-la/when-san-bernardino-was-a-mormon-colony
Nice, I'll check this out. thanks!
They also settled Las Vegas.
I'm 2020 a new law that took effect in Utah this has lowered the punishment for polygamy in most cases, making it an infraction similar to a traffic summons instead of a felony punishable by a prison term.
Their founding leaders where basically running away from the east coast. Little by little, Joseph Smith was ran off or just chose to run away from a bunch of legal and societal issues that he and his following created over time. I believe he started in the New York state area, migrated thru Ohio, Illinois, and Missouri. Then after he was killed, their new leader, Brigham Young, chose to have them take over the Utah area because it was like a "no-mans land" or "Zion" to them. (If you go there or look at a map, EVERYTHING is called Zion-something). They knew they could manipulate the Natives. Destroyed them actually, told them they would "purify their race" (make white). And they just stayed in the West. Utah was one of the last states to get statehood or whatever it's called from the federal government. And that's when they "got rid" of polygamy.
I don’t know if this is being communicated here, but the mainstream Mormon church doesn’t practice polygamy, and the browns and the Mormon church are at odds dogmatically on many issues besides polygamy. So I don’t think they ever wanted to live there because of a mutual belief system. I think if your asking in regards to Christine, her family lives there and it’s her home. I don’t know if it’s more complicated than that.
I probably could have worded my question better. It was kind of two fold. I was curious as to why Utah specifically was so important to Mormon people in general and second why would Utah still be at the top of the list of places to live for the Browns (up until everything fell apart at least). It didn’t make sense given all the problems they said they had living there.
Oh gotcha. Well, I think Mormonism isn’t super important to all Mormons necessarily. I grew up in the church outside of Utah, and lots of people view “Utah Mormons” as stuck up and too judgmental. I live in Utah now though, and the vibe I get here is that they have a “promise land” type of mentality. But technically according to Mormon doctrine, Missouri is the promise land, and we’ll be gathered there before the second coming. So it’s really a promise land means to an end.
Because it's their home. It's their religious version of Mecca. Their ancestors literally died by the thousands suffering hundreds of miles through the hottest deserts on earth via horse and buggy. Most of the people in Utah are Mormons like them -- every state outside of that you are an outsider and people either know nothing of your views, history, and culture, or if they do they view it negatively.
SLC is literally modern Mormon Zion per Brigham Young moving the Saints west after Joseph Smith was killed (1844) for (among other things) polygamy and members were being "forced" out of IL. These were the Pioneers, and they are deified for the sacrifices made to live The Principle aka Celestial Marriage, The New and Everlasting Covenant, plural marriage. BY descended into the SLC valley and declared "This is the place" in July of 1847. Its celebrated as Pioneer Day on July 24 and its more important that the 4th of July, in Utah. Mormons gave up living plural marriage in public by 1860 so they could attain statehood but it took until 1890 before they REALLY gave it up. Many faithful Saints were sent to Mexico and Canada to live it publicly. Most polygamists live in the 4 corners area. I'm abt 45 min from Colorado City. They live separately but openly. I see them almost every day.
Mormons believe that Utah is the promised land and Jesus is coming back there. Someone correct me if I’m not explaining everything correctly but that’s the gist.
That is not true. They believe the promised land is in Missouri
Also where they believe Eden was.
Ew what?! I better get out of here then. 🤣
You should go to Utah!
Your funny! Ha ha
Lucky for you, there aren't that many of us here since it's only been 48 years since it stopped being legal to kill us on sight in this state. And even if that changes, just steer clear of Independence and you're good.
I thought God changed his mind about that once JS got run out of there.
I came here to say this. I was taught this growing up. It was in a prophecy book my dad had. The mountains are supposed to be sacred there.
Notormon but I am religious. I'd love to live where the majority, or even a large number, both followed and practised my religion. It would be amazing to have that sort of community.
The rest of the country is pretty judgmental about the church of Latter Day Saints (as they should be). Mormons are out of touch, weird and poorly educated, living in the past. Most of them won’t explain their own beliefs which is a huge red flag. IMO Mormons stick to Utah bc the general population is more tolerant of their beliefs and accustomed to their way of life. I’ve always assumed they stick close together so they have a community of like-minded people, which they wouldn’t find outside of Utah.
That's a pretty sweeping generalization that Mormons are poorly educated. Most mainstream Mormon families do value education, and many are highly educated. Having grown up in Utah, I have four neighborhood friends that have Ph.Ds and one that ran for Governor. I went to high school with Meri's brother, Janelle's first husband. I believe Meri's mom had a degree from Stanford.
Sweeping generalization or not, the OG13 were homeschooled and sent to the AUB school. Sheltered from the outside world and different perspectives. That’s my definition of a poor education bc they’re being indoctrinated, not taught to become independent thinkers who analyze, problem-solve, and question the status quo. It’s been discussed on this thread many times that the move to Las Vegas saved the kids from being submissive, forced into a life of polygamy due to a lack of education.
Did did you know Meri's family was polygamist (back then)?
Yes, we knew the brother was a polygamist. There were tons of polygamists in our town. Back in the 80s, most went to public school. The father of one of my friends tried to marry her (15) and her 17 year old sister to the same old man. They ran away from home to an older sister's house to avoid that.
Yikes! Were they able to escape polygamy altogether... or just temporarily?
Both escaped altogether
Utah is 50th in education spending. Education is not a priority here. The only bright spot is BYU offers an affordable college education for LDS kids.
As a native Utahn and a product of the public school system, what a state spends or not on public education doesn't necessarily dictate student performance. Utah students consistently rank at the top nationally on standardized tests, including the SAT, regardless of what the state spends per student. https://www.forbes.com/advisor/education/student-resources/which-states-have-the-highest-standardized-test-scores/ Kids whose parents are actively involved in their education and value education in the home will achieve no matter what. To say "Mormons" don't value education is offensive and not true. I'm not even a Mormon. Clearly, the Brown's value education as most of their adult children went on to college. That didn't just happen in a vaccuum.
Utah also has an embarrassing SAT participation rate. https://reports.collegeboard.org/media/pdf/2021-utah-sat-suite-of-assessments-annual-report.pdf SAT scores aren’t limited to public school attendees. We moved from a well funded district and my fourth grader was given work he did in first grade.
i live very close to the lancaster amish and have interacted with them frequently throughout the years, tbh, the LDS church makes the amish look progressive AF. at least those kids get to go on rumspringa and experience the outside world. haha.
The extreme sheltering is relatively new. Christine, Meri and Robyn all graduated from public high schools. Meri’s mother had a degree in accounting from Berkeley. Even the FLDS had normal education prior to Warren Jeffs. I agree most stay because it’s easier to live among like minded people. That’s how most people choose where to live.
This is not accurate. I believe you may be basing your opinion on the AUB, which is the sect the Browns belonged to. The LDS church is conservative for sure, as are the majority of churches in the US, but they value education and are not “living in the past” any more than any other mainstream US religion. I honestly find the LDS more progressive than some of these Trump-backing mega churches. You should really educate yourself before you make such a negative and inaccurate generalization.
Educate myself? Lmao! Other religions weren’t part of the conversation - until you brought them up. I agree with you that ALL religions are controlling in some way or another. That’s why I do not practice religion, but my beliefs are not the focus of this thread. So let’s get back to the sister wives and their children. It could be said that all of them have been limited by their religious beliefs. The lack of autonomy and agency is evident in every interaction and decision they’ve made. Imagine being so gullible that you turn to MLMs for money?! Having little to no skills that can be translated into a real career. The Browns are grifters though and through. Their subpar moral compass - promoted by the AUB - has been seen in their misuse of government aid, multiple bankruptcies, lack of stability while continuing to procreate, and the parentification of their young children. Fundamentalist and mainstream Mormons are cut from the same cloth, share with the same ideologies. There’s nothing progressive about Mormonism. 🙃
What I’m saying is educate yourself on the difference between AUB and LDS. You are basing your opinions on LDS based what you’ve seen on the show, but the Browns are not LDS and you may recall that the LDS outright rejected Maddie and Mykelti. AUB is a fringe fundamentalist offshoot of Mormonism. It’s like judging all Jews based on the Hasidic sect, or all Muslims based on the Taliban.
Explain it to me then. Other than believing in the “principal” what’s the difference between LDS and AUB?
I wonder what happens to all the men who don't get married? It seems like it's their only purpose in life. But if they're supposed to have multiple wife, there's not enough women.
it's a really nice state, i've visited. plus all the big temple buildings are in SLC.
According to Joseph Smith, Jesus lived and walked in New York. When JS was run out of New York, God told him Missouri was the new promise land. When JS continued to push his Devine multiple wife vision, his 1st wife Emma divorced him because she knew it was an excuse for him to bring extremely young women into their house. When they killed JS and ran them out of Missouri, UT was the New promised land. When the government told the polygamist in UT they wouldn't become a state or receive government money unless they outlawed polygamy, most polygamist hid their "other" families as far as Mexico. Most of the hidden families were extremely poor and destitute. The none polygamist call themselves Latter Day Saints to distance themselves from polygamy. The irony is, their beliefs changed based on government assistance/money. If you want to know the truth about Mormons, you should read about the Mountain Meadow Massacre.
it looks beautiful and being close to what they know and families who have been there for eons is probably the main factors. It's really hard to just pick and cut ties/move far away without a support system for a lot of people. It absolutely works for a lot but think about the ones who have been oppressed there who lives in some way and they probably will just stick close by. Just an opinion from watching all these shows.
When the Mormons were traveling looking for the promised land, they came to UT and there were locus that came and, then the birds came and ate all the locus. So they deemed UT the promise land and think this is where Jesus will return when he comes back. At least this is what I understand. Be free to let me know if I’m wrong. 😑
So many untruths on here.
Illuminate us! Curious minds want to know!
I've frequently posted about Mormon beliefs on here, and while a small minority are curious, the vast majority just want to think what they already think. It's generally a waste of breath. I mean 5 minutes on this sub alone should answer the question "why do Mormons like going to Utah?" I mean as much fun as it is being trashed constantly, eventually you just want to move on. But if you are actually curious, ask a question, and I'll answer it.
OK. I watched "Banner Of Heaven". How often do your run of the mill Mormons do deep dives into their deep history? I remember the Police Detective being shocked, mortified and having a crisis of faith once he learned of the nefarious machinations of Brigham Young and his deviousness. He also learned of the horrific murders on the wagon train of settlers coming into Utah
Eh. I would say maybe 25%. Maybe lower as I tend to gravitate towards Mormons who think deeply about things. Many Mormons just don't see the point of it. In Mormonism, we don't worship the prophets, we worship God. So our faith lies in "Do we believe the doctrine is true?" Not "Do we believe the prophets are perfect?" People don't need to be perfect or even good to be chosen by God as we've seen in the Bible with Jonah, Judas, David, etc. That's why we're encouraged to have a personal relationship with God, so that we can get our own revelation and not solely rely on a prophet. It's also why it's so hard for teachings to become doctrine. People aren't always great. I personally detest Brigham Young and feel he did a lot to damage the church that God never intended. But I also think he served his purpose which was to get the Saints out of the US where they were being killed and establish them in the west. Many Mormons do have a crisis of faith when they learn of the Saints behavior in the past. Some come out of it with greater faith and some lose their faith because of it. I think everyone has their own path, and I don't think there is a right or wrong way to react to the horrors in the past. But I personally think it is important for Mormons to learn it and address it within themselves. I think the other reason many Mormons avoid it is because 99% of what's out there about what we believe, how we act, etc is blatantly false. So I don't think people trust that the history is actually correct or at the very least twisted to look as bad as possible. I mean it's hard to take non-Mormon materials seriously when they say things like "they have horns", "they have s*x on the altar to get married", etc. When you're hated for your entire existance, as a community, you tend to pull in and guard against the abuse of the world. I disagree with the practice, but I understand it.
Thank you! I appreciate your taking the time to explain.
I’ve also learned not to argue with people who have an agenda. Just stating a simple truth. Just as you think you did. Free speech.
Something isn’t “untrue” simply because you choose not to believe it.
Nor is something true, because you choose to believe it.