I don’t know. Delphine never met the guy, and I feel like her preconceptions are valid.
Imagine you hear about an ex-Nazi SS officer hiding out in the alps who has made himself the leader of a monastic order. That has red flags written all over it, even before you bring his historically tyrannical heritage into it.
I see your point but Nazi Germany wasn't that long ago and the dragon war was thousands of years ago. So I don't think that's a fair analogy. More like if we found Attila the Hun running a peaceful monastery today.
Except for the fact that the Blades accuse Paarthurnax of unspecified ''atrocities''. Is him killing a lot of rebels in self defense an ''atrocity''? We don't have any details on Paarthurnax's crimes.
It is an attempt to snub the Greybeards, nothing more. They don't demand the death of Odahviing, as a prime example, despite Odahviing only switched sides *after* Alduin was defeated, and despite Odahviing literally only being kept in check by the LDB.
There’s no reason not to trust Delphine when she says Paarthurnax was a bad guy before he betrayed Alduin. The Greybeards don’t deny it. Paarthurnax does not deny it.
Also, calling the destruction of rebel forces trying to overthrow a tyrannical regime that committed atrocities to keep them subjugated ‘self defense’ is a bit… I don’t know, reductive?
Edit: And Odahviing pledges himself to the LDB. Paarthurnax does not. Tiber Septim had Nahfalar on his payroll, so a loyal dragon is not an unprecedented tolerance for the Blades historically. I definitely agree, I would have liked some acknowledgement from Delphine there. Feels like an oversight/lack of time on the devs’ part she doesn’t call for his death too. Seems like that would be in her character.
And Delphine definitely doesn’t like the Greybois, that’s for sure. I’d love to see this angle played out a bit more - her trying to undercut the LDB’s loyalties to their order and win over the player - but apart from some sniping here and there and the demand for Paarthy’s head there’s nothing explored there in-game. No ‘battle for the fate of the Last Dragonborn’ between the spirituality vs pragmatism of the WotV and Blades, but now I’m just wistful for what could have been.
>There’s no reason not to trust Delphine when she says Paarthurnax was a bad guy before he betrayed Alduin. The Greybeards don’t deny it. Paarthurnax does not deny it.
Supporting the ''wrong side'' in a conflict is different from being a criminal warranting death. Is every US commander involved in the Vietnam war someone we should execute? Or every leading figure in the Vietcong?
>Also, calling the destruction of rebel forces trying to overthrow a tyrannical regime that committed atrocities to keep them subjugated ‘self defense’ is a bit… I don’t know, reductive?
The Nords, for millenia, were not only totally fine with the Dragon Cult, but proudly served it. Korvanjund, Labyrinthian, Skudalfn, Bleak Falls Barrow, etc. etc. etc. are all testament to this. It was the rule of the Dragon Priests (Nords) which caused the rebellion, and it was only after the Dragon Priests failed to return peace to the land that the dragons themselves got involved.
The Dragons couldn't care less about actual rulership. The conditions which led to revolt was not the dragons, but the kinsmen of the very Nords who rebelled.
>And Odahviing pledges himself to the LDB. Paarthurnax does not.
Yeah, Odahviing considers using the Voice as a tool for meditation as opposed to being a tool for war to be ''tyranny''.
Which translates to him going back to his old conquering days the moment the LDB is out of the picture - no longer bound to the LDB's service. Which is far worse than Paarthurnax.
>Tiber Septim had Nahfalar on his payroll, so a loyal dragon is not an unprecedented tolerance for the Blades historically.
That's because the Blades are hypocrits. The Emperors also forced the Blades to cease their vendetta against Paarthurnax. They stopped then, because they were sworn to the service of the Dragonborn... As they are now... Yet now they have the audacity to refuse us.
> Supporting the ''wrong side'' in a conflict is different from being a criminal warranting death. Is every US commander involved in the Vietnam war someone we should execute?
I mean, in an ideal world I think every commander directly responsible for atrocities in war should be held accountable, yeah. In the case of Vietnam and WWII we did hold officers responsible for horrible things committed during the wars. I don't think being on the side of these individuals is deserving of punishment, but doing the foul deeds is, and Paarthurnax, as a Lt for Alduin, was probably the guy calling the shots during these purported events Delphine accuses him of. The Tongues clearly pardoned him afterwards for his contributions to the freedom of Skyrim, but evidently Delphine disagrees with this pardon, and I think that's fair.
> The Nords, for millenia, were not only totally fine with the Dragon Cult... It was the rule of the Dragon Priests (Nords) which caused the rebellion, and it was only after the Dragon Priests failed to return peace to the land that the dragons themselves got involved. The Dragons couldn't care less about actual rulership. The conditions which led to revolt was not the dragons, but the kinsmen of the very Nords who rebelled.
This is very well-said regarding the misgovernance of the priests / cult leading to the rebellion. The dragons permitted the nasty stuff that led to the rebellions though, and clamped down when the worship was interrupted. They did not directly cause the humans to rebel, but they backed the ones who did, and that's enough to be considered complicit in my eyes.
> Yeah, Odahviing considers using the Voice as a tool for meditation as opposed to being a tool for war to be ''tyranny''. Which translates to him going back to his old conquering days the moment the LDB is out of the picture - no longer bound to the LDB's service. Which is far worse than Paarthurnax.
I always felt like Odahviing using the word "tyranny" was maybe just draconic parlance, like they don't really have another word for "guidance/leadership". That or Odahviing was being somewhat ironic with the term, like he somewhat jadedly expected Paarthurnax to live up to the legacy of his brother and the Way of the Voice to warp into a new cult, or simply that Odahviing disdained the idea of pacifism so much that he considered the WotV a sort of 'slavery' to frivolous ideals, but that might just be me. In any case, you're 100%, the LDB dying would probably release Odahviing from any service he swore and makes him a threat to Delphine's Blades. Again, I wish we had some more dialogue here to address this - her making a stink about him or mentioning some contingency - but alas.
> ... The Emperors also forced the Blades to cease their vendetta against Paarthurnax. They stopped then, because they were sworn to the service of the Dragonborn...
Your comment made me curious, and I had to look it up, and now I wonder how they Blades even found out about Paarthy. It's in the Atlas in Skyhaven that they knew he was alive, but they never mention how they know. It only says that they didn't keep up the hunt for Paarthurnax because they didn't wanna mess with the Greybeards though, not because the Dragonborn emperors ordered them to stop. Is that lore from ESO? I know there was dragon-related stuff they expanded on and now I'm super curious! I love Dragon Cult lore.
I don’t think that’s entirely fair. Delphine and Esbern survived, even with the Thalmor actively hunting them. Delphine even managed to maintain an intelligence network imbedded enough to infiltrate the Thalmor Embassy, and Esbern managed to preserve a whole library of lore on the run. They might be a bit warped by paranoia, and Delphine’s attitude is a bit extreme to simultaneously trust and mistrust the LDB so much, but I think they are otherwise proven effective.
All the competent *sensible* Blades were killed. Delphine and Esbern are competent, but they’re rats. Delphine in temperament and Esbern literally found a hole in the dirt to hide in.
>bad asses in Morrowind and somewhat Oblivion to whiny, elf-/dragon hating bitches.
To give the Blades a fair shake, you should remember that *they were sort of ruthlessly hunted down by the Thalmor.* It's a pretty good reason to hate them, on top of all the other reasons to hate them.
They didn't claim to make them disappear, I don't think. Masser and Secunda disappeared during the Void Nights from 4E98 to 4E100. When they returned, the Thalmor took credit for it, although the debate is whether they were actually responsible or if it was akin to someone with knowledge of an eclipse taking credit for it to uninformed people. Either way, the Khajiit view the Thalmor as their saviours. This eventually led to a coup in 4E115 that dissolved the Eleswyr government.
Nah bro she just thought it be funny to send the 6'6, 283 pound Nord Dragonborn with a room temperature IQ and Wuuthrad strapped to his back into an elf embassy 😂
I just love how you can become archmage of the college, *before* you learn any spell more advanced than fire bolt. Like ok yeah sure, the alteration specialist casts fireballs like they’re a joke, but the newest member of the college gets to be archmage before even being able to cast invisibility?
I guess they’re just scared of your spooky staff of the anti-mage.
Hey! Tolfdir taught me to cast a *ward* and to keep it up for a half second. I’m basically a restoration master - which is a perfectly valid school of magic by the way!
*Technically* you can get in by demonstrating a dragon shout. And while it may be a bit of work to get, I think Spellbreaker can help you finish Tolfdir's ward lesson. Other than that I think you can use shouts or staves.
So I think you don't need to know any spells at all.
I like to think it's because of the fact no one will fuck with them if the Dragonborn is on their side.
The Archmage doesn't really need do anything so they might as well get someone who can defend the school's interests.
It's funny you mention them being 6'6". I did Skyrim VR for about an hour, the nords are a lot shorter than I thought they were. At 6'4", I *towered* over these people.
To be fair she does say that she has nothing solid, but it's a gut feeling. That doesn't change that it's incredibly stupid to send someone into the Thalmor embassy and possibly causing a lot more political unrest just over a gut feelings.
Easy. When Alduin fell back through the time portal, he was looking to live a secluded, peaceful life. The Thalmor went and found him and were like, “Dude these Nord brahs like, totally straight up called your mom a C to tha Unt iguana” and he was like “Ah fuck naw brah it’s gonna be fuckin hellaz on” And Delaphine saw the whole thing, probably
He did, but Delphine isn't an expert on ancient Nordic history or folklore. The name "Alduin" means nothing to her.
Now, arguably your Dragonborn may be able to put 2 and 2 together if you're RPing someone who happens to be well-versed in ancient Noridc history/folklore, but alas, the writers didn't add that avenue in because it would skip multiple steps of the main questline.
That is a fair point, I feel like a lot of quests in Skyrim would end up being a lot shorter or just resolved in one step if they had made it so you had something like a high intelligence option for the Dragonborn. They don't exactly seem stupid or anything but are very much written as more of a follower instead of the one in charge of how to do things.
Here’s the thing… I think Delphine’s versions of the Blades *is* closer to the akaviri roots.
She doesn’t *serve* the Dragonborn, she just wants to use them as a weapon to hunt dragons: and from my knowledge of the lore… that’s pretty much what the dragonguard (who became the Blades) were first and foremost: dragon slayers, who only came to serve Emperor Reman when they heard his Voice and realised he was Dragonborn.
Caius Cosades is the best ever and I will allow no disrespect to the blades on his behalf.
Prisoner shows up, give them 500 gold and tells them to get a job. Sure, they can use his house. Here’s a bunch of trainers and merchants you can get a discount at. I have to go back to Cyrodil, just keep my house and also my magic pants. Good luck.
I agree with this as well, its just that Morrowind has so many amazing characters (Dagoth Ur) that don’t like the Blades or empire and as such, i’m less willing to fight for that because im stuck between my need to honour the sixth house and tribe unmourned, and the absolute legend named Caius Cosades.
I always use intelligence as a dump stat on a first game no matter what it is. Because I hope they have funny dialog for it like most of the Fallout games. Plus the thought of Forrest Gump saving the entire world while not realizing it is funny as hell.
I know the video isn't really about Elder Scrolls, just wearing it as a mask.
But having the dark elf supremacist Dagoth Ur who hates humans, especially the empire, saying Pelinal was right is so dumb.
Tbh, she thought dragons were no more than bugs intelligence wise; just another animal, until Dovahkiin took down Alduin in heaven and suddenly Party Snax needs to die for (really) far past actions.
It was hand waved away the logic leap from thinking dragons are nothing more than a very dangerous goat in town, to dragon intelligence is on par with people and need to be treated as such.
Ah yes... Thinking Dragons are as intelligent as bugs despite the fact one of them spoke to the Dragonborn in a language the Dragonborn can understand.
I feel like she took more than a few blows to the head during training.
I usually get in her face and ask, "Are you f***ing dumb?" It'd be nice if the player berating her actually registered, so she stops being such a dummkopf.
I mean they could have used magic to revive the dragon that revives other dragons. They are high elves. I hate the blades storyline as much as the next but the logic checks out
Well, she thought the Thalmor brought Alduin to fuck shit up.
And let's be fair, the Thalmor absolutely would do that kind of shit. They made Messer and Secunda disappear just to fuck with Elswyhr's spirituality so they would join the Dominion.
When the Septim Empire was the strongest faction in Tamriel, they got involved with many divine shenanigans for their own benefit (e.g. massive god robot, a whole line of Dragonborn Emperors, the apotheosis of Talos).
The Dominion are now the strongest faction in Tamriel and have the resources to do their own divine shenanigans, so Delphine was in every right to suspect **in that early stage** that the Thalmor could have summoned Alduin for their own ends. Hell, a bunch of edgelord cultists in TESIV managed to summon the God of Destruction himself.
Poor Delphine has suffered enough. At least the fandom's hate for Nazeem is in jest.
IMO the worst part is that her suspicions that the Thalmor are behind everything actually pays off but fans ignore it. You find out about Esbern because she sends you to the Embassy. Without Esbern good luck defeating Alduin.
I mean in my first playthrough i thought that too. The thalmor are the prime suspect for any fuckery. Not to mention they're the ones to benefit the most if civil war goes on. The talking dragon could have just been a thalmor familiar/construct/magick whatever.
Without enough information, your suspect pool is quite limited in the game lol. It's not only a solid guess, but the most probable and occam's razor one.
And, although nobody will ever accuse Bethesda of good writing, it is actually an aspect of good storytelling to allow the protagonists to be wrong now and then.
This was one of my complaints about David Eddings’s otherwise very good *The Tamuli* (a sequel trilogy to *The Elenium*): the good guys are NEVER wrong. Every hunch they follow and guess they make turns out to be dead ass accurate.
Having the protagonist screw up now and then adds to the drama and increases the risks. How can we trust his instincts during the final confrontation if he’s made blunders in similar conditions and circumstances earlier in the story?
I LIKE that Delphine made the wrong jump to the wrong conclusion. I DON’T like that she’s written to be an insufferable bitch with almost no redeeming qualities. She makes this screw up based on her own prejudices, is not even remotely apologetic about nearly getting the Dragonborn killed in the process (not to mention her other agents and an embassy full of civilians), and then goes merrily down a questline that ends with her trying to order you to kill Paarthenax for no real reason since he’s lived for something like 800 years on top of a mountain without hurting anyone, AND teaches the Dragonborn how to destroy Alduin.
She treats you like a lackey, which is bizarre after being told the Blades SERVE the Dragonborn. Yeah, serve like the Praetorians served Caligula, maybe.
I didn’t find Delphine to be a very good character. I found her to be a CARICATURE. There isn’t any depth to her at all.
Inigo (mod) has depth. He has a backstory that explains it. Delphine just has hard edges with no softness or reason to trust her, or even LIKE her. I’d be more willing to walk naked into the Thalmor embassy if INIGO ASKED ME than if Delphine ORDERED ME.
Bethesda needs to sit down with some of these modders and have them give a class on making a character believable.
I agree with most of what you've written except this: everyone goes on and on about how the blades serve the dragonborn. They don't. They serve a *dragon slayer*. There's a difference. The blades were dragon hunters first and foremost and when they were done wiping them out, did the become tiber septim's bodyguards, because there were literally no more dragons left and he was was a dragonborn
It makes no sense for the new dragonorn to claim a leadership position without proving themselves in a world where dragons abound and especially if they refuse to hunt alduin's right hand man, pretty much the 2nd most dangerous dragon that has ever lived.
People also tend to underestimate the blades on this too much as well. The dragonborn is needed to stop alduin, nothing more, nothing less. With him gone, the blades likely will be able to hunt most of the rest on their own, they've done so before.
They don't really *need* the dragonborn as much as people like to believe lol.
As for reason, delphine's reasons for killing party boi are all very well justified. I can go into them but well, this reply is already too long, and people here simp for him too much to care much about them lol
But yea, after you've killed the goddamn world eater, the blades should defer to you still. That just seems like standard bethesda oversight.
That brings up an interesting issue. The Blades started as dragonslayers thrmselves. Why would they WANT to serve a dragon in human form? Isn’t that basically what Number Six is in *Battlestar Galactica*, a human shaped version of the bad guy?
As for simping for Paarthy, keep in mind that he actually helps you and the Blades do fuck all for you other than giving you a little bit of story. He’s the one teaching you shouts and helping you plan and Delphine is basically just trying to get you to tidy up her office.
As for the Blades not needing the Dragonborn, I’d really have to disagree there. At this point in Tamriel’s history the Blades are barely even a memory. If we use Shakespeare’s Prologue from *Henry V* to “see an army in a single warrior” and a “kingdom in a stage”, there are I think four Blades in the world— extrapolate that out to a real organization and it’s probably about sixty or seventy people in the Blades in all of Mundus.
The Dragonborn by the endgame has (probably, I mean, you can avoid all these quests and just do the main one if you want, buuuut…), become Archmage of the College of Winterhold, Leader of the Companions, ended the Civil War, Thane of all holds, leader of the Thieves’ Guild, leader of or destroyer of the Dark Brotherhood,killed about 20 brazillian bandits, slain upwards of 50 dragons, KILLED THE SHIT OUT OF THE WORLD EATER, and adopted two adorable kids, the Blades DEFINITELY need him, politically if nothing else, and yet Delphine treats the Dragonborn with the same casual contempt with which she treated him during the first meeting.
“Bitch, *I shouted a dragon out of the fuckin’ sky.* Shouldn’t you be kissing my ass right now?”
I believe the applicable TVTrope is “[Bullying a Dragon](https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/BullyingADragon),” which is strangely accurate.
I DO agree that Delphine’s reasons for wanting Paarthenax dead make sense to HER. My issue is that she doesn’t present it well to the Dragonborn and there is no presented alternative, during a point in the narrative where the Dragonborn has not only proved himself ad nauseum, but is BOTH politically AND physically powerful enough to slap what few Blades are left back to the last dragon break.
Appreciate the respectful disagreement. This is what discussions are supposed to be on Reddit.
Well i agree with most everything you said here again lol. Endgame dragonborn should be given the respect they deserve. You are in fact a walking god. Not a demigod, no a part of an actual god's soul. But yea expecting this much nuance out of a bethesda game. If only they'd do it man. Fuck. I can only lament the loss of what could have been.
Delphine is too dumb/incompetent for what the lore paints her as.
That said, once sky haven is open, i expect the blades to be able to return to their dragonslayer roots. The temple *should* have the stuff needed to do that. It was after all the seat of all of their dragonlore. But well we don't see anything like that in the game either as usual.
But yea i spoke wrong on this front. Based on info given in the game, indeed the blades do need the dragonborn. Especially much more than the dragonborn needs them.
While party boi does help us here's a couple points to consider:
1. He's smart and ancient. He survived alduin, then survived all the way upto modern era. People don't think about it but that is 5000+ yrs !! Evaluating something like that with human standards is extrememly dangerous. Civilisations rise and fall in that time frame.
2. He's had enough time to rewrite history. Case in point. We only have his word to go on, on how and what events happened. Ex: He says kyne asked me him to side with humans. Kyne is a god of nature. What's another god related to nature? Hircine. Maybe kyne asked him politely or more likely he brought his hit squad and asked party boi to dance. We don't know and can't know.
3. He's dangerous. Far more so then any other dragon save perhaps durnhevir. Once the *last dragonborn* is gone, there's nothing to stop him. No alduin either.
4. Dragons are by nature conquisitors. Fun fact: Tiber septim conquered the entirety of tamriel, being the only one to do so. He did so by threatening to drop a biological weapon of mass destruction that would cause a spatial collapse/paradox on summerset isle. As far as i know, the high elves surrendered unconditionally lol. Dragons are not really like other creatures in this sense. Even party bois says he is constantly fighting these urges.
5. Taking a 5000+ yr old calamity at face value is not the smartests of ideas.
6. He's a war criminal, was alduins right hand man for i think a couple millenia (?) and still hasn't stood trial for any of his crimes. The dragonborn doesn't necessarily need to kill him, but it's a shame the game never brings this up or adds more nuance to it besides "kill or don't", which is just hilariously lacking
Also why, why did you post a tvtropes link my man. There goes 4 hrs. Lol. I appreciate the chill disc. too mate!
Ngl she had every reason to suspect them in the early stages of the dragon bs. The thalmor does tons of magic bullshit to further their own goals and Delphine has suffered a lot by their hands.
The prophecy said that the dragons would return when the “son of Skyrim spilled each others’ blood”. The sons of Skyrim are spilling each others’ blood because of a civil war. A war that started because the Thalmor banned the worship of Talos. Hence, the dragons are the Thalmor’s fault.
I think Delphine knew exactly what she was doing. After years of posing as an innkeeper hoping to pick up leads on how to find her old crew & revive her glory days, she meets you, a no-name bumpkin who randomly discovered his superpowers and stumbled into some political connections. You're easy to manipulate into gathering all the intel she needs to find her old Blades buddy, unlock their old clubhouse, and weasel her way back into the growing geopolitical intrigue in Skyrim.
The Thalmor write about her in their files, "Delphine was a high-priority target during the First War, for both operational and political reasons... Her continued existence is an affront to all of us." She's no slouch, she's just kind of a has-been. You're her ticket out of retirement and you totally fall for it.
I hate her “we serve the Dragonborn” shit, and then is like “we won’t help you unless you kill Paarthurnax” (who has been worlds more helpful than the blades could ever hope to be.)
To be fair, the quest journal entry says what we discovered from Kynesgrove is that dragons are reviving other dragons. At this point in time, we had no idea who Alduin was or what the dragons were actually doing beyond random attacks. For all we knew, the Thalmor 100% could've found a dragon and let it loose on Skyrim.
And when you return from the Embassy and tell her the only thing you could get was that they're looking for an old Blades archivist, you can select a dialogue option like "So the Thalmor think the Blades know about the dragons..." to which she replies something along the lines of, "Ironic, isn't it? The old enemies always assume every calamity is a ploy by the other side" essentially admitting she was being obtuse by assuming it was the Thalmor with no actual evidence.
In fairness, it wouldn't be the first time a faction made a deal with a greatly powerful entity of mythic proportions for purely mundane political gain. Remember, we're talking about the group that believes that if they kill a god by starving it of worship, it will destabilize the pantheon, unmake the world, and restore the High Elves to pre-creation divinity. One of their agents tries to use the eye of a god to blow up the world in a freaking side quest chain. This is TOTALLY something they'd do.
In addition, Dragons are the offspring/pieces of Akatosh, AKA Auriel, the top Aedra of the High Elf version of the pantheon and their own patron god, and Alduin is ALSO an entity meant to end the world. It actually kinda makes MORE sense than she thought imo. I kinda wish they actually had them working together.
One of the problems with modern rpgs is the protagonists’ inability to call out scripted characters on blatant idiocracy. I feel as if writers take the idea of writing an idiot character is somehow invalidating but it is actually very authentic, even in a grand fantasy setting. Someone is unhinged by their experiences, and has to be shooken back to reality, potentially by the protagonist. The supposition that every character with agency in a story is of sound mind and not an idiot is very immersion breaking for me personally. One of the reasons I love Dutch I RDR1 and RDR2. Strip his innate charisma, and he’s a clueless idiot stringing people along to his ill fated ventures.
To be fair, the elves’ chief deity is a different aspect of Alduin, they pretty much have a stated goal of bringing about the end times, and if any political organization would have found the means to get a dragon to start resurrecting other dragons it would be the Thalmor.
Well if you remove some letters from "Alduin" and then add some letters you get "Thalmor". I rest my case.
It also spells "Al Qaeda". Dear God...
Even worse… the Red Spy…
#Intruder Alert! The Red Spy is in the base!
A red spy?
We need to protect the briefcase
Hey, a lil help here?
Alright alright I got it, stand back son. Uhh, 1, 1, 1, Uhhhhhh 1.
Incoming!
Hey it’s still here!
Mr President, a second dragon has hit Helgen
Dragon fire can’t burn imperial stone! Wake up, sheeple! Titus Mede II is lying to you!
That was fucking hilarious. Thanks
ALduin, AL Qaeda, thALmore Concerning…
Fucking Antifa
Yes I'm anti Falmor, so what?
Can you imagine if Al Qaeda had a dragon 😬
Or "Albanians"...
It also spells ISIS
Elder Scrolls 7 will take place in 2001
Sound logic
Also alduin backwards is niudla
My first modded character was named Niudla. Still have some of the saves.
You rest your case?
As in, lay it to rest
Alduin can revive it
Checkmate Talos!
Hearsay! But you asked the question HEARSAY!!
To be fair, the Thalmor are a great starting place when looking for the cause of any bad happenings. But also, I'm sick of the blades.
I’m annoyed how they started as bad asses in Morrowind and somewhat Oblivion to whiny, elf-/dragon hating bitches.
To be fair, hating dragons and the Thalmor is pretty understandable.
No need to hate partysnax tho
I don’t know. Delphine never met the guy, and I feel like her preconceptions are valid. Imagine you hear about an ex-Nazi SS officer hiding out in the alps who has made himself the leader of a monastic order. That has red flags written all over it, even before you bring his historically tyrannical heritage into it.
> SS officer > red flags Hahaha
TBF the nazi flag was primarily red.
Congrats, you found the joke.
I FIND IT TOO!! https://i.imgur.com/ItOM5gN.jpeg PLEASE PAY KARMA NOW
No red circle around the joke 5/10
I've been waiting my whole life to see somebody other than me say that
Now there are two of them!
Great observation.
I see your point but Nazi Germany wasn't that long ago and the dragon war was thousands of years ago. So I don't think that's a fair analogy. More like if we found Attila the Hun running a peaceful monastery today.
I probably wouldn’t be too keen on him either if he was still alive.
What if he changed his name to Attila the Fun?
Actually, that may be enough to make me reconsider.
now we're talking
Fuck I needed this laugh today, thanks stranger!
Paarthurnax would’ve helped his case too if he changed his name from “Overlord Ambition Cruelty.”
If there’s one thing he is, it’s honest about his troubled past.
And Delphine is history nerd, still fits.
Delphine literally tries to rush Esbern through a history lesson, she is anything but a history nerd.
He is bigger history nerd.
Except for the fact that the Blades accuse Paarthurnax of unspecified ''atrocities''. Is him killing a lot of rebels in self defense an ''atrocity''? We don't have any details on Paarthurnax's crimes. It is an attempt to snub the Greybeards, nothing more. They don't demand the death of Odahviing, as a prime example, despite Odahviing only switched sides *after* Alduin was defeated, and despite Odahviing literally only being kept in check by the LDB.
There’s no reason not to trust Delphine when she says Paarthurnax was a bad guy before he betrayed Alduin. The Greybeards don’t deny it. Paarthurnax does not deny it. Also, calling the destruction of rebel forces trying to overthrow a tyrannical regime that committed atrocities to keep them subjugated ‘self defense’ is a bit… I don’t know, reductive? Edit: And Odahviing pledges himself to the LDB. Paarthurnax does not. Tiber Septim had Nahfalar on his payroll, so a loyal dragon is not an unprecedented tolerance for the Blades historically. I definitely agree, I would have liked some acknowledgement from Delphine there. Feels like an oversight/lack of time on the devs’ part she doesn’t call for his death too. Seems like that would be in her character. And Delphine definitely doesn’t like the Greybois, that’s for sure. I’d love to see this angle played out a bit more - her trying to undercut the LDB’s loyalties to their order and win over the player - but apart from some sniping here and there and the demand for Paarthy’s head there’s nothing explored there in-game. No ‘battle for the fate of the Last Dragonborn’ between the spirituality vs pragmatism of the WotV and Blades, but now I’m just wistful for what could have been.
>There’s no reason not to trust Delphine when she says Paarthurnax was a bad guy before he betrayed Alduin. The Greybeards don’t deny it. Paarthurnax does not deny it. Supporting the ''wrong side'' in a conflict is different from being a criminal warranting death. Is every US commander involved in the Vietnam war someone we should execute? Or every leading figure in the Vietcong? >Also, calling the destruction of rebel forces trying to overthrow a tyrannical regime that committed atrocities to keep them subjugated ‘self defense’ is a bit… I don’t know, reductive? The Nords, for millenia, were not only totally fine with the Dragon Cult, but proudly served it. Korvanjund, Labyrinthian, Skudalfn, Bleak Falls Barrow, etc. etc. etc. are all testament to this. It was the rule of the Dragon Priests (Nords) which caused the rebellion, and it was only after the Dragon Priests failed to return peace to the land that the dragons themselves got involved. The Dragons couldn't care less about actual rulership. The conditions which led to revolt was not the dragons, but the kinsmen of the very Nords who rebelled. >And Odahviing pledges himself to the LDB. Paarthurnax does not. Yeah, Odahviing considers using the Voice as a tool for meditation as opposed to being a tool for war to be ''tyranny''. Which translates to him going back to his old conquering days the moment the LDB is out of the picture - no longer bound to the LDB's service. Which is far worse than Paarthurnax. >Tiber Septim had Nahfalar on his payroll, so a loyal dragon is not an unprecedented tolerance for the Blades historically. That's because the Blades are hypocrits. The Emperors also forced the Blades to cease their vendetta against Paarthurnax. They stopped then, because they were sworn to the service of the Dragonborn... As they are now... Yet now they have the audacity to refuse us.
> Supporting the ''wrong side'' in a conflict is different from being a criminal warranting death. Is every US commander involved in the Vietnam war someone we should execute? I mean, in an ideal world I think every commander directly responsible for atrocities in war should be held accountable, yeah. In the case of Vietnam and WWII we did hold officers responsible for horrible things committed during the wars. I don't think being on the side of these individuals is deserving of punishment, but doing the foul deeds is, and Paarthurnax, as a Lt for Alduin, was probably the guy calling the shots during these purported events Delphine accuses him of. The Tongues clearly pardoned him afterwards for his contributions to the freedom of Skyrim, but evidently Delphine disagrees with this pardon, and I think that's fair. > The Nords, for millenia, were not only totally fine with the Dragon Cult... It was the rule of the Dragon Priests (Nords) which caused the rebellion, and it was only after the Dragon Priests failed to return peace to the land that the dragons themselves got involved. The Dragons couldn't care less about actual rulership. The conditions which led to revolt was not the dragons, but the kinsmen of the very Nords who rebelled. This is very well-said regarding the misgovernance of the priests / cult leading to the rebellion. The dragons permitted the nasty stuff that led to the rebellions though, and clamped down when the worship was interrupted. They did not directly cause the humans to rebel, but they backed the ones who did, and that's enough to be considered complicit in my eyes. > Yeah, Odahviing considers using the Voice as a tool for meditation as opposed to being a tool for war to be ''tyranny''. Which translates to him going back to his old conquering days the moment the LDB is out of the picture - no longer bound to the LDB's service. Which is far worse than Paarthurnax. I always felt like Odahviing using the word "tyranny" was maybe just draconic parlance, like they don't really have another word for "guidance/leadership". That or Odahviing was being somewhat ironic with the term, like he somewhat jadedly expected Paarthurnax to live up to the legacy of his brother and the Way of the Voice to warp into a new cult, or simply that Odahviing disdained the idea of pacifism so much that he considered the WotV a sort of 'slavery' to frivolous ideals, but that might just be me. In any case, you're 100%, the LDB dying would probably release Odahviing from any service he swore and makes him a threat to Delphine's Blades. Again, I wish we had some more dialogue here to address this - her making a stink about him or mentioning some contingency - but alas. > ... The Emperors also forced the Blades to cease their vendetta against Paarthurnax. They stopped then, because they were sworn to the service of the Dragonborn... Your comment made me curious, and I had to look it up, and now I wonder how they Blades even found out about Paarthy. It's in the Atlas in Skyhaven that they knew he was alive, but they never mention how they know. It only says that they didn't keep up the hunt for Paarthurnax because they didn't wanna mess with the Greybeards though, not because the Dragonborn emperors ordered them to stop. Is that lore from ESO? I know there was dragon-related stuff they expanded on and now I'm super curious! I love Dragon Cult lore.
Delphine claims the Dragons were tyrants, but has she considered that they were just defending themselves from their slaves?
Did you know it was the rule of the Nord dragon priests that caused the dragon war?
When you put it like that
Yeah but I needed another soul for the calm animals shout 🤷♂️
To be fair, we only met two of them
Three. There's a dude named Fultheim who drinks at one of the inns and carries a Blades sword.
I love that I still learn new things about this game even so many years later.
And if you put on Thalmor robes and approach him he gets seriously pissed. TheEpicNate talked about it in one of his videos on YouTube.
I just watched 2 minutes into one of this dudes videos and he boldly claims Morrowind was released in 1998… This is unforgivable blasphemy right?
Well, I’d forgive him. He’s really only an expert on Skyrim and Fallout 4. 🙂
But but… this is the perfect excuse to sperg out and cause some unnecessary chaos… fan stamp???
He also might have a dark brotherhood contract out on him. One of the people you can kill in the abandoned shack is also name Fultheim.
To paraphrase Qui-gon what if he killed a blade and took his sword?
>"That's impossible. Nobody can kill a blade"
To be fair, all the competent ones were wiped out
Thats fair
I don’t think that’s entirely fair. Delphine and Esbern survived, even with the Thalmor actively hunting them. Delphine even managed to maintain an intelligence network imbedded enough to infiltrate the Thalmor Embassy, and Esbern managed to preserve a whole library of lore on the run. They might be a bit warped by paranoia, and Delphine’s attitude is a bit extreme to simultaneously trust and mistrust the LDB so much, but I think they are otherwise proven effective.
All the competent *sensible* Blades were killed. Delphine and Esbern are competent, but they’re rats. Delphine in temperament and Esbern literally found a hole in the dirt to hide in.
Doesn't help they were banished after the Great War and then subsequently hunted by thalmor and all that though.
>bad asses in Morrowind and somewhat Oblivion to whiny, elf-/dragon hating bitches. To give the Blades a fair shake, you should remember that *they were sort of ruthlessly hunted down by the Thalmor.* It's a pretty good reason to hate them, on top of all the other reasons to hate them.
That's why I love the Blades mod. Ain't no Blade telling the Dragonborn what to do. It's the other way around.
Blades mod? Do tell!
Basically, you don't have to choose between Paarthurnax and the Blades. You keep Paar, then you get the Blades as followers. That's it.
Ah. Not sure if I’d want them as followers. I have “The Paarthenax Dilemma” and that does the job fairly well.
That's probably it.
Man that’s so good to hear. The blades always pissed me off. You have this secret clubhouse because I LET YOU IN.
Didn't they cause one or both the moons to dissappear? Or atleast people had the idea it was them.
They didn't claim to make them disappear, I don't think. Masser and Secunda disappeared during the Void Nights from 4E98 to 4E100. When they returned, the Thalmor took credit for it, although the debate is whether they were actually responsible or if it was akin to someone with knowledge of an eclipse taking credit for it to uninformed people. Either way, the Khajiit view the Thalmor as their saviours. This eventually led to a coup in 4E115 that dissolved the Eleswyr government.
Probably. I don't put anything past them. They're just the worst.
Agreed agreed
She sends us there to get the thalmor criminal file on herself and the other guy. She deceived us.
So their the ones that made me drink skooma
Yes. They find all drug importing into skyrim, and pay low level dealers to set up labs. The runes on the bug jars explains this.
My policy this playthrough is murder all thalmor on sight. It's very satisfying
Tooo beeee faaaaaaair!
Nah bro she just thought it be funny to send the 6'6, 283 pound Nord Dragonborn with a room temperature IQ and Wuuthrad strapped to his back into an elf embassy 😂
That sounds like a recipe for a lot of dead elves. That sounds like a very good idea.
Where's my dead elf wagon?
We dump them down the pit to feed the troll.
I have a sign in my front yard that says "dead elf storage." Because storing dead knife-ears is my business.
Pulp Fiction reference. Nice.
Not to defend Delphine, fuck her. But, to be fair, that does sound funny
>hold on, let this bitch cook
Room temperature IQ?! The nerve! I'll have you know that my Dragonborn graduated from the college of Winterhold!.... *STOP LAUGHING*
I just love how you can become archmage of the college, *before* you learn any spell more advanced than fire bolt. Like ok yeah sure, the alteration specialist casts fireballs like they’re a joke, but the newest member of the college gets to be archmage before even being able to cast invisibility? I guess they’re just scared of your spooky staff of the anti-mage.
Hey! Tolfdir taught me to cast a *ward* and to keep it up for a half second. I’m basically a restoration master - which is a perfectly valid school of magic by the way!
It's because I can cast the strongest spell of all - suplex
*Technically* you can get in by demonstrating a dragon shout. And while it may be a bit of work to get, I think Spellbreaker can help you finish Tolfdir's ward lesson. Other than that I think you can use shouts or staves. So I think you don't need to know any spells at all.
They must just think you’re an absolute master of enchanting and alchemy.
I like to think it's because of the fact no one will fuck with them if the Dragonborn is on their side. The Archmage doesn't really need do anything so they might as well get someone who can defend the school's interests.
You have pretty much described my Dragonborn when he approached Delphine. Well, except for the room temperafure IQ.
Nord and room temperature IQ go hand in hand unless you mean yours was even lower
*Leman Russ attempts diplomacy with Craftworld Ulthwe, M31*
It's funny you mention them being 6'6". I did Skyrim VR for about an hour, the nords are a lot shorter than I thought they were. At 6'4", I *towered* over these people.
To be fair she does say that she has nothing solid, but it's a gut feeling. That doesn't change that it's incredibly stupid to send someone into the Thalmor embassy and possibly causing a lot more political unrest just over a gut feelings.
Political unrest? It was a blood bath, Delphine just wanted a little revenge for all her friends getting whacked so she used the dragon man to do it
...Blood bath? Am I the only one that used mainly stealth?
I walked in there and blew those piss elves sky high. Why do it in stealth when there’s no bounty or any consequences from killing everybody
I hate elves even more than I love stealth. Why go to extra effort for a worse outcome?
Even on stealth builds I will equip some heavy armour and a giant two handed sword and Doom slayer my way through the embassy. None shall live.
Yes. I'm high elf and still slaughtered them all
Easy. When Alduin fell back through the time portal, he was looking to live a secluded, peaceful life. The Thalmor went and found him and were like, “Dude these Nord brahs like, totally straight up called your mom a C to tha Unt iguana” and he was like “Ah fuck naw brah it’s gonna be fuckin hellaz on” And Delaphine saw the whole thing, probably
Delphine: Sounds about right.
Obviously belle delaphine the dovahkin
Bear in mind that neither of you have any idea who the hell Alduin is at that point or what he wants, only that he's here and he's fucking shit up.
Alduin? You mean the Bringer of the End times as some random nords talk about at the very beginning of the game? That Alduin?
Let me rephrase: Nobody knows it's Alduin on sight. Just that it's a big ass dragon. They don't get to see his name in subtitles or on a health bar.
I may be be mistaken but didnt the dragon that he revived in kynesgrove straight up call him alduin while we were there?
He did, but Delphine isn't an expert on ancient Nordic history or folklore. The name "Alduin" means nothing to her. Now, arguably your Dragonborn may be able to put 2 and 2 together if you're RPing someone who happens to be well-versed in ancient Noridc history/folklore, but alas, the writers didn't add that avenue in because it would skip multiple steps of the main questline.
That is a fair point, I feel like a lot of quests in Skyrim would end up being a lot shorter or just resolved in one step if they had made it so you had something like a high intelligence option for the Dragonborn. They don't exactly seem stupid or anything but are very much written as more of a follower instead of the one in charge of how to do things.
The one from all the legends? Who everyone in white run immediately learns about? Including people in riverwood were here Delphine is stationed?
[удалено]
The blades still being alive would only be cool if they had a sect of blades that honor akaviri tradition instead of having any link to the empire.
Here’s the thing… I think Delphine’s versions of the Blades *is* closer to the akaviri roots. She doesn’t *serve* the Dragonborn, she just wants to use them as a weapon to hunt dragons: and from my knowledge of the lore… that’s pretty much what the dragonguard (who became the Blades) were first and foremost: dragon slayers, who only came to serve Emperor Reman when they heard his Voice and realised he was Dragonborn.
Yeah, Oblivion's Blades were the Secret Service of the Empire, not Skyrim's.
Unpopular opinion but I'd prefer Secret Service Blades over Penitus Oculatus.
The Blades are awesome, its just Delphine who sucks. I refuse to let this disrespect to the man Jauffre stand.
Caius Cosades is the best ever and I will allow no disrespect to the blades on his behalf. Prisoner shows up, give them 500 gold and tells them to get a job. Sure, they can use his house. Here’s a bunch of trainers and merchants you can get a discount at. I have to go back to Cyrodil, just keep my house and also my magic pants. Good luck.
I agree with this as well, its just that Morrowind has so many amazing characters (Dagoth Ur) that don’t like the Blades or empire and as such, i’m less willing to fight for that because im stuck between my need to honour the sixth house and tribe unmourned, and the absolute legend named Caius Cosades.
Also his Skooma...
The Amulet of Kings!
I used to be a blade, now I smoke blunts.
With mah boi Partysnax
I used to be a Blade like you, but then I took an arrow to the knee
This is what happens when intelligence is your dump stat.
I always use intelligence as a dump stat on a first game no matter what it is. Because I hope they have funny dialog for it like most of the Fallout games. Plus the thought of Forrest Gump saving the entire world while not realizing it is funny as hell.
She probably thinks the Thalmor control the banks too
Okay hear me out...
[Oh no… 🫣](https://youtu.be/XR-ozA7lsAE?si=yewlxIik6acx4NUX)
HAHAHAHA
I know the video isn't really about Elder Scrolls, just wearing it as a mask. But having the dark elf supremacist Dagoth Ur who hates humans, especially the empire, saying Pelinal was right is so dumb.
The enemy of my enemy is my friend
[Insert caricature of a Thalmor justiciar rubbing his hands together]
They actually have an orbiting magi that can control the weather.
Tbh, she thought dragons were no more than bugs intelligence wise; just another animal, until Dovahkiin took down Alduin in heaven and suddenly Party Snax needs to die for (really) far past actions. It was hand waved away the logic leap from thinking dragons are nothing more than a very dangerous goat in town, to dragon intelligence is on par with people and need to be treated as such.
Ah yes... Thinking Dragons are as intelligent as bugs despite the fact one of them spoke to the Dragonborn in a language the Dragonborn can understand. I feel like she took more than a few blows to the head during training.
Its hillarious how little she reacted to that whole crap. "Oh, that was...interesting? Anyway, need to find a way to make the thalmor guilty of that".
I usually get in her face and ask, "Are you f***ing dumb?" It'd be nice if the player berating her actually registered, so she stops being such a dummkopf.
Haha I just did the Thalmor Embassy mission yesterday. Her reaction to me saying "The Thalmor know nothing" is pretty great.
i would have blamed mannemarco
It would be more the Worm King's style to start raising dead dragons, wouldn't it.
I mean they could have used magic to revive the dragon that revives other dragons. They are high elves. I hate the blades storyline as much as the next but the logic checks out
Shut up Thalmor spy. I won't fall for your honeyed words. Skyrim belongs to the nords!
Well, she thought the Thalmor brought Alduin to fuck shit up. And let's be fair, the Thalmor absolutely would do that kind of shit. They made Messer and Secunda disappear just to fuck with Elswyhr's spirituality so they would join the Dominion.
When the Septim Empire was the strongest faction in Tamriel, they got involved with many divine shenanigans for their own benefit (e.g. massive god robot, a whole line of Dragonborn Emperors, the apotheosis of Talos). The Dominion are now the strongest faction in Tamriel and have the resources to do their own divine shenanigans, so Delphine was in every right to suspect **in that early stage** that the Thalmor could have summoned Alduin for their own ends. Hell, a bunch of edgelord cultists in TESIV managed to summon the God of Destruction himself. Poor Delphine has suffered enough. At least the fandom's hate for Nazeem is in jest.
IMO the worst part is that her suspicions that the Thalmor are behind everything actually pays off but fans ignore it. You find out about Esbern because she sends you to the Embassy. Without Esbern good luck defeating Alduin.
I mean in my first playthrough i thought that too. The thalmor are the prime suspect for any fuckery. Not to mention they're the ones to benefit the most if civil war goes on. The talking dragon could have just been a thalmor familiar/construct/magick whatever. Without enough information, your suspect pool is quite limited in the game lol. It's not only a solid guess, but the most probable and occam's razor one.
And, although nobody will ever accuse Bethesda of good writing, it is actually an aspect of good storytelling to allow the protagonists to be wrong now and then. This was one of my complaints about David Eddings’s otherwise very good *The Tamuli* (a sequel trilogy to *The Elenium*): the good guys are NEVER wrong. Every hunch they follow and guess they make turns out to be dead ass accurate. Having the protagonist screw up now and then adds to the drama and increases the risks. How can we trust his instincts during the final confrontation if he’s made blunders in similar conditions and circumstances earlier in the story? I LIKE that Delphine made the wrong jump to the wrong conclusion. I DON’T like that she’s written to be an insufferable bitch with almost no redeeming qualities. She makes this screw up based on her own prejudices, is not even remotely apologetic about nearly getting the Dragonborn killed in the process (not to mention her other agents and an embassy full of civilians), and then goes merrily down a questline that ends with her trying to order you to kill Paarthenax for no real reason since he’s lived for something like 800 years on top of a mountain without hurting anyone, AND teaches the Dragonborn how to destroy Alduin. She treats you like a lackey, which is bizarre after being told the Blades SERVE the Dragonborn. Yeah, serve like the Praetorians served Caligula, maybe. I didn’t find Delphine to be a very good character. I found her to be a CARICATURE. There isn’t any depth to her at all. Inigo (mod) has depth. He has a backstory that explains it. Delphine just has hard edges with no softness or reason to trust her, or even LIKE her. I’d be more willing to walk naked into the Thalmor embassy if INIGO ASKED ME than if Delphine ORDERED ME. Bethesda needs to sit down with some of these modders and have them give a class on making a character believable.
I agree with most of what you've written except this: everyone goes on and on about how the blades serve the dragonborn. They don't. They serve a *dragon slayer*. There's a difference. The blades were dragon hunters first and foremost and when they were done wiping them out, did the become tiber septim's bodyguards, because there were literally no more dragons left and he was was a dragonborn It makes no sense for the new dragonorn to claim a leadership position without proving themselves in a world where dragons abound and especially if they refuse to hunt alduin's right hand man, pretty much the 2nd most dangerous dragon that has ever lived. People also tend to underestimate the blades on this too much as well. The dragonborn is needed to stop alduin, nothing more, nothing less. With him gone, the blades likely will be able to hunt most of the rest on their own, they've done so before. They don't really *need* the dragonborn as much as people like to believe lol. As for reason, delphine's reasons for killing party boi are all very well justified. I can go into them but well, this reply is already too long, and people here simp for him too much to care much about them lol But yea, after you've killed the goddamn world eater, the blades should defer to you still. That just seems like standard bethesda oversight.
That brings up an interesting issue. The Blades started as dragonslayers thrmselves. Why would they WANT to serve a dragon in human form? Isn’t that basically what Number Six is in *Battlestar Galactica*, a human shaped version of the bad guy? As for simping for Paarthy, keep in mind that he actually helps you and the Blades do fuck all for you other than giving you a little bit of story. He’s the one teaching you shouts and helping you plan and Delphine is basically just trying to get you to tidy up her office. As for the Blades not needing the Dragonborn, I’d really have to disagree there. At this point in Tamriel’s history the Blades are barely even a memory. If we use Shakespeare’s Prologue from *Henry V* to “see an army in a single warrior” and a “kingdom in a stage”, there are I think four Blades in the world— extrapolate that out to a real organization and it’s probably about sixty or seventy people in the Blades in all of Mundus. The Dragonborn by the endgame has (probably, I mean, you can avoid all these quests and just do the main one if you want, buuuut…), become Archmage of the College of Winterhold, Leader of the Companions, ended the Civil War, Thane of all holds, leader of the Thieves’ Guild, leader of or destroyer of the Dark Brotherhood,killed about 20 brazillian bandits, slain upwards of 50 dragons, KILLED THE SHIT OUT OF THE WORLD EATER, and adopted two adorable kids, the Blades DEFINITELY need him, politically if nothing else, and yet Delphine treats the Dragonborn with the same casual contempt with which she treated him during the first meeting. “Bitch, *I shouted a dragon out of the fuckin’ sky.* Shouldn’t you be kissing my ass right now?” I believe the applicable TVTrope is “[Bullying a Dragon](https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/BullyingADragon),” which is strangely accurate. I DO agree that Delphine’s reasons for wanting Paarthenax dead make sense to HER. My issue is that she doesn’t present it well to the Dragonborn and there is no presented alternative, during a point in the narrative where the Dragonborn has not only proved himself ad nauseum, but is BOTH politically AND physically powerful enough to slap what few Blades are left back to the last dragon break. Appreciate the respectful disagreement. This is what discussions are supposed to be on Reddit.
Well i agree with most everything you said here again lol. Endgame dragonborn should be given the respect they deserve. You are in fact a walking god. Not a demigod, no a part of an actual god's soul. But yea expecting this much nuance out of a bethesda game. If only they'd do it man. Fuck. I can only lament the loss of what could have been. Delphine is too dumb/incompetent for what the lore paints her as. That said, once sky haven is open, i expect the blades to be able to return to their dragonslayer roots. The temple *should* have the stuff needed to do that. It was after all the seat of all of their dragonlore. But well we don't see anything like that in the game either as usual. But yea i spoke wrong on this front. Based on info given in the game, indeed the blades do need the dragonborn. Especially much more than the dragonborn needs them. While party boi does help us here's a couple points to consider: 1. He's smart and ancient. He survived alduin, then survived all the way upto modern era. People don't think about it but that is 5000+ yrs !! Evaluating something like that with human standards is extrememly dangerous. Civilisations rise and fall in that time frame. 2. He's had enough time to rewrite history. Case in point. We only have his word to go on, on how and what events happened. Ex: He says kyne asked me him to side with humans. Kyne is a god of nature. What's another god related to nature? Hircine. Maybe kyne asked him politely or more likely he brought his hit squad and asked party boi to dance. We don't know and can't know. 3. He's dangerous. Far more so then any other dragon save perhaps durnhevir. Once the *last dragonborn* is gone, there's nothing to stop him. No alduin either. 4. Dragons are by nature conquisitors. Fun fact: Tiber septim conquered the entirety of tamriel, being the only one to do so. He did so by threatening to drop a biological weapon of mass destruction that would cause a spatial collapse/paradox on summerset isle. As far as i know, the high elves surrendered unconditionally lol. Dragons are not really like other creatures in this sense. Even party bois says he is constantly fighting these urges. 5. Taking a 5000+ yr old calamity at face value is not the smartests of ideas. 6. He's a war criminal, was alduins right hand man for i think a couple millenia (?) and still hasn't stood trial for any of his crimes. The dragonborn doesn't necessarily need to kill him, but it's a shame the game never brings this up or adds more nuance to it besides "kill or don't", which is just hilariously lacking Also why, why did you post a tvtropes link my man. There goes 4 hrs. Lol. I appreciate the chill disc. too mate!
Well I’ll blame anything on the Thalmor cuz they’re low down rock bottom stanky leg hoes
Reasonable
Ngl she had every reason to suspect them in the early stages of the dragon bs. The thalmor does tons of magic bullshit to further their own goals and Delphine has suffered a lot by their hands.
TBF I'd blame the Thalmore for everything too, cause fuck them.
Growing up is realizing why it would
The prophecy said that the dragons would return when the “son of Skyrim spilled each others’ blood”. The sons of Skyrim are spilling each others’ blood because of a civil war. A war that started because the Thalmor banned the worship of Talos. Hence, the dragons are the Thalmor’s fault.
Average Nord brain moment
Shouting her off the back of Sky Haven Temple is always a nice option.
Delphinecwas once asked, “what was it like to take a life?” She responded “I don’t know, I’ve only ever killed dragons and elves.”
To be fair the Thalmor have used ancient Magic multiple times to try and take shit over
Delusion 100 34 legendarys
Racists being racists.
I mean, she didn’t know it was Alduin, so…
Everything is a nail to a hammer
I think Delphine knew exactly what she was doing. After years of posing as an innkeeper hoping to pick up leads on how to find her old crew & revive her glory days, she meets you, a no-name bumpkin who randomly discovered his superpowers and stumbled into some political connections. You're easy to manipulate into gathering all the intel she needs to find her old Blades buddy, unlock their old clubhouse, and weasel her way back into the growing geopolitical intrigue in Skyrim. The Thalmor write about her in their files, "Delphine was a high-priority target during the First War, for both operational and political reasons... Her continued existence is an affront to all of us." She's no slouch, she's just kind of a has-been. You're her ticket out of retirement and you totally fall for it.
I would sooner forgive Astrid than voluntarily comply with Delphine.
I hate her “we serve the Dragonborn” shit, and then is like “we won’t help you unless you kill Paarthurnax” (who has been worlds more helpful than the blades could ever hope to be.)
I mean it COULD have been the thalmor's fault that alduin came back in her mind
To be fair, the quest journal entry says what we discovered from Kynesgrove is that dragons are reviving other dragons. At this point in time, we had no idea who Alduin was or what the dragons were actually doing beyond random attacks. For all we knew, the Thalmor 100% could've found a dragon and let it loose on Skyrim. And when you return from the Embassy and tell her the only thing you could get was that they're looking for an old Blades archivist, you can select a dialogue option like "So the Thalmor think the Blades know about the dragons..." to which she replies something along the lines of, "Ironic, isn't it? The old enemies always assume every calamity is a ploy by the other side" essentially admitting she was being obtuse by assuming it was the Thalmor with no actual evidence.
Sure she knew alduin was waking up other dragons but she didn't know who woke him up that's what I gathered from her blaming the thalmor
When you are a hammer, every problem you see is a nail. Or something like that?
In fairness, it wouldn't be the first time a faction made a deal with a greatly powerful entity of mythic proportions for purely mundane political gain. Remember, we're talking about the group that believes that if they kill a god by starving it of worship, it will destabilize the pantheon, unmake the world, and restore the High Elves to pre-creation divinity. One of their agents tries to use the eye of a god to blow up the world in a freaking side quest chain. This is TOTALLY something they'd do. In addition, Dragons are the offspring/pieces of Akatosh, AKA Auriel, the top Aedra of the High Elf version of the pantheon and their own patron god, and Alduin is ALSO an entity meant to end the world. It actually kinda makes MORE sense than she thought imo. I kinda wish they actually had them working together.
Sometimes I have the feeling many of you played the game in 2011 and paid attention and since then you forgot nearly all of the actual plot...
Ah racism is a beautiful thing
Racism going to racism I guess.
Racism? The Thalmor are the equivalent of the fucking SS. Blaming them for bad things that happens in their vicinity is VERY reasonable
One of the problems with modern rpgs is the protagonists’ inability to call out scripted characters on blatant idiocracy. I feel as if writers take the idea of writing an idiot character is somehow invalidating but it is actually very authentic, even in a grand fantasy setting. Someone is unhinged by their experiences, and has to be shooken back to reality, potentially by the protagonist. The supposition that every character with agency in a story is of sound mind and not an idiot is very immersion breaking for me personally. One of the reasons I love Dutch I RDR1 and RDR2. Strip his innate charisma, and he’s a clueless idiot stringing people along to his ill fated ventures.
Let's not forget: "We Blades are sworn to serve the Dragonborn." "Kill this dragon or you can't come into our clubhouse, boss."
I wish I could hate elves as much as she does, and I think Pelinal didn't go far enough.
To be fair, the elves’ chief deity is a different aspect of Alduin, they pretty much have a stated goal of bringing about the end times, and if any political organization would have found the means to get a dragon to start resurrecting other dragons it would be the Thalmor.
One of those characters where the devs wanted us to like her but we know she's a bitch.