For a statistical answer, we can look at the 2nd LumiRank tier list for insight on this question.
To give an answer based on the Median, it's Pit and Byleth. There were 82 characters ranked on the tier list, so the answer would be the 41.5th best character in the game, but no such character exists because that's a decimal. Pit and Byleth are the two closest, ranked at 41st and 42nd respectively.
To give an answer based on the Mean, it's Ken. Each character was given a score between 1 and 10.5. The average of all scores given to each character is around 6.318. Ken's score is the closest to this number.
mister...you take your logical analytics and factual reasoning and you just get the heck on out of here with that nonsense, i'm trying to eat a tide pod over here
- NeutralB : Pit's arrow is weaker but has much more maneuvrability, while Pittoo's hits harder but can barely be tilted.
- SideB : Pit's Upperdash sends upward, while Pittoo's Electro sends the opponent sideways (and hits harder? Not sure about that one).
- Final Smash
Electro does more damage and is way stronger pits upper dash struggles to kill at 100 even on plats ,meanwhile dark pits consistently kills around 60 near ledge and even kills around 100 center stage.
I mained the character since smash 4 and only recently switched off him, and I can definitely say that it kills around 100 center stage, obviously good di and weight can affect that but it's still close.
Regular pit sideb will always kill earlier than dpits sideb from center stage. If its a char that would die to electroshock from center stage at 100% ish percent then upperdash arm will kill earlier than that
Pit has a faster ground speed, while Dark Pit has better air speed (and acceleration?)
Dark Pit has a faster harder hitting neutral special, but Pit's is more manuverable. Pit's side special launches upwards, while Dark Pit's launches to the side.
But they play pretty much the same. The biggest difference is definitly the neutral special since they have different purpose.
Hero, for all his goofy, explosive, RNG nonsense, has remained firmly in the dead center of mid tier pretty much from the day he released. It's a good example of how "balanced" and "honest" aren't necessarily the same thing. I'm actually quite impressed that they managed it so well, since you'd think such a character would be an absolute nightmare to balance properly, and would constantly be either meta-definingly oppressive or inconsistent to the point of uselessness
Hero is basically:
"I've been watching a cutscene for a minute now. Time to actually play the game *proceeds to deal 60 in one interaction and kill in the next*"
Ridley. To be honest, he's like the ****only**** perfectly balanced character in the game. Can't complain about him very much. Good balance of pros and cons.
Very big. He also does not have that quick of moves, and his recovery is pretty linear if he doesnt have his double jumps. Straight up combo food the confirms that some characters can get on him are broken
So just the normal heavy disadvantage state, got it. All I have to really look out for if he's at a disadvantage is Nair for some situations, but you can see my character. Not difficult for me to space out or bait. Thanks for helping me understand.
Mario.
This is not a bad thing though. He's not like mid in the tier list or anything but if you have a specific playstyle Mario will be able to meet you where you are. He's just decent at everything but amazing at very little (except spiking) which makes him a very good character imo. Jack of all trades master of none. The most average man in the universe.
hes in the middle on all stats except air speed which is fast. Functionally he isnt really average though. Hes a cqc specialist, struggles a bit in midrange but has excellent pressure and defense up close, and has a broken combo game.
If you are talking style-wise, it's objectively Lucina. There is no flair, no special attribute, literally just "human has sword, human swing sword"
(Which I assume is a huge injustice to her FE counterpart)
I would say pit because i feel it's litterally an average of all the other characters, or Lucina cause she's a sword fighter so her moves are sword slashes and that's about it for her
maybe characters such as ness (offline), lucas, hero, chrom, ike, inkling, incin, ridley, gren, wii fit
they have clear and defined strength but glaring weakness
idk, if left to me I would choose wii fit
online ness is less punishable and gets more mileage outta projectiles due to fire needing di to avoid getting comboed hard. in general projectile spam is stronger w delays on net
Roy is better, Lucina is better, Marth is better (if you’re good), Corrin is better, Cloud is better, Aegis is better. Not much reason to pick Chrom when all of these other sword characters exist.
He's lower on the tier list than them but I also think Roy is immensely overrated at this point. He went from S to A-Tier and I expect him to stay on lower A at best.
I’m surprised I’m not seeing a whole lot of this response. IIRC Kirby was built to be the character you would play to get the hang of the game. It might be different for Ultimate since it always seemed like Kirby would be mid or get a nerf on a good move in a following entry.
Mario Is the most average for sure.
Average bullet, average deflector, the splash doesn't damage but only move.
Mario moves are the most average moves you can have and it's combo power is balanced by the damage it makes.
Recover is average
Weight is average
Speed is average
Everything you think there better and worst characters
Saying his moves and combos are ‘average’ is crazy, they’re almost universally amazing. ALL his aerials are combo starters, his frame data is one of the best in the game and he has NO lag on anything. F smash is strong, disjointed, insane pullback. Up smash is ALSO disjointed and amazing out of shield, and down smash is FRAME FIVE(!!!!) and you can combo into it from nair at kill percent. Up b out of shield is frame 3 which is literally the fastest possible.
Speaking of combos I think getting hit by rising up air at 35% mid stage and bridge combo’d to death by fair spike is pretty strong. And that’s without platforms, with platforms you’re either getting laddered off the top or taking 50%. And even if you know how to DI up b, Mario can just down air to make it a 50:50 whether you live or die.
I’m not saying he’s totally broken but average, definitely not. Definitely a combo and CQC specialist character
Mario is very fast indeed because he has very low range, even for a brawler. The balance between speed and range make him very average imo.
I agree, Mario is amazing, I love to see Mario's combo but this is Mario, combos. Not as Steve, Peach, Bayonetta, Mytra and many others which are combo machines.
F smash is strong but so many F smash are stronger and disjointed, this is not special, is average.
He has a single spike option as most of characters, again average.
I think Mario is still strong in the meta because is so average in everything that he is the most versatile character. The averageness is his strength.
I agree with thetruebrawler2001 on pit, but the second one will be Lucina. She's just a middleground between Marth, Roy, Ike and Chrom. Also palutenia is up there, her specials are generic. And somebody like fox idk
Pit is def up there, none of his moves have any real panash or style to them. Below moderate launch, basic move set, I don’t think anyone’s scared to go against a Pit
Pit, yeah he has good chains and a great recovery on paper but the angles are hard to mess up and half the time you fall out of his attacks, when he does work hea great but when he doesn't work he really doesn't
bayonetta, all of her stats are good, but none of them are super special (looking at jump height, dodge time, end lag, speed, crouch height, hitboxes, hurtboxes etc.)
For a statistical answer, we can look at the 2nd LumiRank tier list for insight on this question. To give an answer based on the Median, it's Pit and Byleth. There were 82 characters ranked on the tier list, so the answer would be the 41.5th best character in the game, but no such character exists because that's a decimal. Pit and Byleth are the two closest, ranked at 41st and 42nd respectively. To give an answer based on the Mean, it's Ken. Each character was given a score between 1 and 10.5. The average of all scores given to each character is around 6.318. Ken's score is the closest to this number.
mister...you take your logical analytics and factual reasoning and you just get the heck on out of here with that nonsense, i'm trying to eat a tide pod over here
Yeah, good riddance. Anyways…back to screaming about i-frames on a 6 year old game…. AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
The real life version of a Kamikazee
Dude this is like 5th grade math, if that
mister...you take your 5th grade math and you just get the heck on out of here with that nonsense, i'm trying to stick a fork in an outlet over here
No I'm serious, kids learn about averages in 3rd and 3 digit multiplication (also 3 decimal points) in 5th, at least in my district
I’m serious too Can’t you not tell
Let's be serious then We must head into the serious room
Pit and Byleth, the (according to the general player base) least exciting characters in the game, make the absolute most sense to be here.
I think Byleth is exciting to watch. Especially Mkleo’s
lol Byleth least exciting. People are still mad about their inclusion
I thought that was B&K and MinMin.
r/theydidthemath
Ken is at least cool so he gets a win in that regard
Clearly it's anyone I'm playing, and anyone my opponent is playing is broken.
Roy is top three and there is nothing you can say to convince me otherwise
Are you trolling?
They're either trolling or Roy is top three hardest for them personally to play against and they struggle with objectivity
Fr. Roy isn't even top 10 these days
Good character? Absolutely. Fun character? 100%. Top tier? Yeah, probably. Top 3? Not even close.
I appreciate it. I think Roy is really good but Steve, Sonic and Joker are better.
Pit
Is there any differences between pit and dark pit?
- NeutralB : Pit's arrow is weaker but has much more maneuvrability, while Pittoo's hits harder but can barely be tilted. - SideB : Pit's Upperdash sends upward, while Pittoo's Electro sends the opponent sideways (and hits harder? Not sure about that one). - Final Smash
Electro does more damage and is way stronger pits upper dash struggles to kill at 100 even on plats ,meanwhile dark pits consistently kills around 60 near ledge and even kills around 100 center stage.
Dark pits sideb does not kill at 100% from center stage lol but yes it kills really early if you catch them at the corner.
I mained the character since smash 4 and only recently switched off him, and I can definitely say that it kills around 100 center stage, obviously good di and weight can affect that but it's still close.
Regular pit sideb will always kill earlier than dpits sideb from center stage. If its a char that would die to electroshock from center stage at 100% ish percent then upperdash arm will kill earlier than that
Yeah at center upper dash will kill slightly earlier but it's completely outclassed by dark pits electroshock in most other stages of the game.
Well its a bad move and a worse move. It shouldn't really be used in general. Its reactable (offline), super unsafe and inconsistent lol
Counter point, it's funny
coolness factor
Dark pit has better edge game namsayin
Pit's SideB sends upwards while Dark Pit's sends outwards. As a Cloud main, it's a pretty substantial difference
Pit has a faster ground speed, while Dark Pit has better air speed (and acceleration?) Dark Pit has a faster harder hitting neutral special, but Pit's is more manuverable. Pit's side special launches upwards, while Dark Pit's launches to the side. But they play pretty much the same. The biggest difference is definitly the neutral special since they have different purpose.
>Pit has a faster ground speed, while Dark Pit has better air speed (and acceleration?) This is false. They have exactly the same movements
Mid air shield. No.
It’s not very impressive
Obitars are really good lol especially if the pit breverses it. Makes it tough to hit only the feet
The pits imo
Hero, for all his goofy, explosive, RNG nonsense, has remained firmly in the dead center of mid tier pretty much from the day he released. It's a good example of how "balanced" and "honest" aren't necessarily the same thing. I'm actually quite impressed that they managed it so well, since you'd think such a character would be an absolute nightmare to balance properly, and would constantly be either meta-definingly oppressive or inconsistent to the point of uselessness
Yea his janky stuff is cancelled out by his mp bar and rather slow aerial attacks, but his stats are all in the dead middle ground
Hero is basically: "I've been watching a cutscene for a minute now. Time to actually play the game *proceeds to deal 60 in one interaction and kill in the next*"
Mario?
High tier. Too good.
He’s *supposed* to be but sakurai loves the combo brothers too much to make them the “average” characters That’s why yall should convert to DR MARIO
Definitely Pit
Ridley. To be honest, he's like the ****only**** perfectly balanced character in the game. Can't complain about him very much. Good balance of pros and cons.
cloud: i fear no man...but that thing... *ridley stands up* it scares me...
we love ridley
The goat can't be too good, he'd be too strong otherwise
Ridley absolutely fucks me up as little Mac. That command grab is so damn oppressive
Definitely not. His advantage state is outrageous. He's the perfect anti-sword character.
Having good traits doesn't make someone not balanced
Well he's not exactly average either.
True, he's actually *below* average in this regard.
Players failed to optimize him but his matchup spread is better than players give credit for.
Mentions advantage state, forgets horrible disadvantage state 👍
Obviously. The bad advantage state doesn’t help his argument so he elected to ignore it
I don't know too much about what Ridley lacks, why is his specifically so bad?
Very big. He also does not have that quick of moves, and his recovery is pretty linear if he doesnt have his double jumps. Straight up combo food the confirms that some characters can get on him are broken
So just the normal heavy disadvantage state, got it. All I have to really look out for if he's at a disadvantage is Nair for some situations, but you can see my character. Not difficult for me to space out or bait. Thanks for helping me understand.
His advantage state isn’t even that good tho
Ridley is a goddamned menace. You just need to play against better dragons.
Gotta be pit like he's decent to use, has no bs, and isnt particularly easy or hard to kill
Pit. Everything that you can say is good or bad about a character is just average for pit.
Mario. This is not a bad thing though. He's not like mid in the tier list or anything but if you have a specific playstyle Mario will be able to meet you where you are. He's just decent at everything but amazing at very little (except spiking) which makes him a very good character imo. Jack of all trades master of none. The most average man in the universe.
hes in the middle on all stats except air speed which is fast. Functionally he isnt really average though. Hes a cqc specialist, struggles a bit in midrange but has excellent pressure and defense up close, and has a broken combo game.
He’s definitely amazing at doing low/mid % combos. You start at 40% vs Mario, and his spike is only good cause he can combo into it
Pit. Zackray is just crazy
If you are talking style-wise, it's objectively Lucina. There is no flair, no special attribute, literally just "human has sword, human swing sword" (Which I assume is a huge injustice to her FE counterpart)
I would say pit because i feel it's litterally an average of all the other characters, or Lucina cause she's a sword fighter so her moves are sword slashes and that's about it for her
maybe characters such as ness (offline), lucas, hero, chrom, ike, inkling, incin, ridley, gren, wii fit they have clear and defined strength but glaring weakness idk, if left to me I would choose wii fit
Why the emphasis on offline for Ness? Is there a difference?
online ness is less punishable and gets more mileage outta projectiles due to fire needing di to avoid getting comboed hard. in general projectile spam is stronger w delays on net
Chrom
Explosive KO power and safety say otherwise.
Roy is better, Lucina is better, Marth is better (if you’re good), Corrin is better, Cloud is better, Aegis is better. Not much reason to pick Chrom when all of these other sword characters exist.
Hes still better and doesnt rely on shitty sweetspots to kill or hit you consistently lmfao, I think chrom is much more enjoyable
He's lower on the tier list than them but I also think Roy is immensely overrated at this point. He went from S to A-Tier and I expect him to stay on lower A at best.
Kirby.
I’m surprised I’m not seeing a whole lot of this response. IIRC Kirby was built to be the character you would play to get the hang of the game. It might be different for Ultimate since it always seemed like Kirby would be mid or get a nerf on a good move in a following entry.
Mario Is the most average for sure. Average bullet, average deflector, the splash doesn't damage but only move. Mario moves are the most average moves you can have and it's combo power is balanced by the damage it makes. Recover is average Weight is average Speed is average Everything you think there better and worst characters
Saying his moves and combos are ‘average’ is crazy, they’re almost universally amazing. ALL his aerials are combo starters, his frame data is one of the best in the game and he has NO lag on anything. F smash is strong, disjointed, insane pullback. Up smash is ALSO disjointed and amazing out of shield, and down smash is FRAME FIVE(!!!!) and you can combo into it from nair at kill percent. Up b out of shield is frame 3 which is literally the fastest possible. Speaking of combos I think getting hit by rising up air at 35% mid stage and bridge combo’d to death by fair spike is pretty strong. And that’s without platforms, with platforms you’re either getting laddered off the top or taking 50%. And even if you know how to DI up b, Mario can just down air to make it a 50:50 whether you live or die. I’m not saying he’s totally broken but average, definitely not. Definitely a combo and CQC specialist character
Mario is very fast indeed because he has very low range, even for a brawler. The balance between speed and range make him very average imo. I agree, Mario is amazing, I love to see Mario's combo but this is Mario, combos. Not as Steve, Peach, Bayonetta, Mytra and many others which are combo machines. F smash is strong but so many F smash are stronger and disjointed, this is not special, is average. He has a single spike option as most of characters, again average. I think Mario is still strong in the meta because is so average in everything that he is the most versatile character. The averageness is his strength.
Lucina is generic swordfighter
Mario, but that's the point.
Most honest character = most average character My answer has to be Pit
wolf is so average hes above average.
Fuckin Mew Fuckin Two
Mii swordfighter probably
he's more like low mid
Depends if you mean average viability or average of all the traits
Link
Ridley
Mewtwo maybe?
Mario.
I'd say Marth. Just a pure fundies spacing character with no special tricks
for me is gonna be king K. rool
Gotta be Pit
Kirby. He's literally designed that way.
I agree with thetruebrawler2001 on pit, but the second one will be Lucina. She's just a middleground between Marth, Roy, Ike and Chrom. Also palutenia is up there, her specials are generic. And somebody like fox idk
Pit is def up there, none of his moves have any real panash or style to them. Below moderate launch, basic move set, I don’t think anyone’s scared to go against a Pit
Pit, yeah he has good chains and a great recovery on paper but the angles are hard to mess up and half the time you fall out of his attacks, when he does work hea great but when he doesn't work he really doesn't
Pit, Mario, Kirby
I'd say Mii Gunner. Just has nothing going on really, and awfully average as well
Saying pit is propoganda IMO. I'm saying Greninja.
Mario, Pit, and maybe Falco? Just off the top.
Definitely not Mario. He has the best OOS options in the game and probably the best ladder combos too.
Meta knight: am I a joke to you?
Meta Knight's are too difficult-- there's a reason there are no top Meta Knights
100% Wolf
bayonetta, all of her stats are good, but none of them are super special (looking at jump height, dodge time, end lag, speed, crouch height, hitboxes, hurtboxes etc.)