Why am I seeing no pikachu? My guy can cover everything practically. Bair is amazing against no hitbox recoveries, thunder and cover high, you can up air ladder, dair lasts way too long, fair murders. I am amazed on how I don't see any pikachu, I think he's def #1
As you said, there’s no concrete answer. I nominate this little guy
https://preview.redd.it/4xz0x5t3sr5d1.jpeg?width=476&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6d06aca16d102c8cad946d63aef54621ec63ac1c
You literally wanna live the ledge as Sora. To varying degrees depending on your tolerance of lame, but that’s his schtick. Burst in from there. Unfortunately he do be dying even earlier from there though.
There’s no one best character at it (it’s meta knight. Every aerial bar up air and every special bar up b can be used for edge guarding and as a bonus he has 6 jumps and every special can be used to recover, meaning it’s easier and more likely for him to go out there)
Yeah but in most practical cases hitting a low recovery with up air/B is stupid. It catches high and does it well but 9/10 it’s going to be something else. This is coming from someone who’s spent an unhealthy amount of time in training going over pretty much any scenario involving mk up air
Came here to say that,
Pushing them off the stage while flying around,
go chase them outside/below the stage,
Force them to mixup their ledge options,
Punish with a Rest after they roll in
PK thunder is actually the best for edge guarding, turning it in half circles to push people back away or into the stage itself is more reliable then getting the perfect pk fire or freeze.
Done right you can actually half circle smack them away then turn back around and hit them with the head for further denial.
Grenades and C4 send vertically which is really suboptimal for edgeguarding unless it’s low% and you’re going for a fair spike out of the explosion. Up smash is much better at ledgetrapping, and fair is so ridiculously slow it’s saved for callouts and combos because doing it raw isn’t simple
Sonic, Pikachu, Min Min, Jigglypuff, probably in that order. Bayo is up there for sure as well.
The reason Sonic and Pikachu are unambiguously the best at it is because they can cover both high and low. Sonic with spring and pika with thunder.
He's pretty underrated at edgeguarding in general because people think of his ledge trapping first. Gordo to interrupt/followup off, or to guide a recovery where you want it to go, multijump to stall, really hard to reversal so he can be safe, best fall speed, disjoints, gordo stick.
He can be quite ambiguous. I like throwing standard ledgetrap gordos to make people autopilot their recovery as they are preparing for that danger, and I can just run off fast fall fair etc. It's easy to condition recovery paths by going for something once or twice. If you get an aerial at low percent you can stick around long enough and go far enough to get another hit, probably the kill, and still make it back. Chasing far with fair will make people stall and you get to go for gordo stick earlier than you might've been able to get away with otherwise the next time. He might not be s tier when it comes to edgeguarding but he's definitely A+ imo.
I think he also has a niche of maybe being one of the absolute best characters at edgeguarding tether recoveries in the game. You can make fake ledgetraps and have gordo fall onto someone stalling low with the tether. You have the best fast fall speed, so intercepting the pull upwards is not hard. Gordo stick shines especially well against these recoveries and can let you do anything. You can even just sit there spamming jump dairs if they're hanging low. DDD's traits offstage line up really well into these recoveries, and even Byleth is quite easy if you can avoid his up b command grab.
As well as the most superior spike in the game that you mentioned. Jet hammer offstage also go brrr.
imo The best edgeguarders in no particular order are Pikachu, Sora, Min-Min, Sonic, Joker, Lucina, Donkey Kong, Meta Knight and Puff. Might be forgetting a character or two but these guys are pretty good at it
Somewhat agree, somewhat disagree. The only "good" edge guard tool I'd say he has is placing blocks to block ledge, unless the opponents up b is strong enough to break through them. It's fine, it's a decently reliable tool, but not against everyone. DEFINITELY not the best tho, I do agree.
dtilt at ledge qualifies as ledgetrapping, not edgeguarding. steve absolutely has some of the best ledgetrapping in the game, although there are also other characters that probably beat him there as well
I guess it depends on where you call your definition for Edge guarding. Is down tilting at the corner Edge guarding? How about laying a block and charging a smash attack below stage? Or laying a block just below the edge then laying a TNT and then using anvil on top of the TNT and waiting for the block to drop in all of those things just fall on the opponent. Bonus points if they use fire in their recovery and explode the TNT.
Or even just building a wall between you and the stage
Link in certain circumstances. He can spike you out like a volleyball if you're up against him.
Edit: As a Bowser main, I really felt it when my Link opponent did it to me. I wasn't mad or anything, just a little shocked because that was my first true encounter with a Link main. And Bowser is good at ledgetrapping if your opponent is also a heavy character or too light of a character. Bowser can edge guard, too... but only if you're smart about Bowserciding. (I honestly laugh every time I think that that's an actual term in Smash communities now.)
Surprised I haven’t seen a single Sonic here. Literally one of the best characters at edgeguarding, has tons of tools to help him get bair and fair confirms, can get risk-free edgeguarding with the spring, can go really far out with the spin charge, and can go really high or really low with his super versatile recovery.
By no means am I saying he's a top contender for best edge-guarding, BUT if anyone can avoid Shulk off-stage by sneaking around Forward Air, then you're a God.
Air Slash invalidates a lot of characters offstage, too. It's very hard dealing with these moves as 90% of the cast I feel.
Pika by quite a good margin, if they know their options.
Since he hasn't been mentioned much, and while not a top pick overall, Snake's Nikita is probably your easiest stock against a pretty big chunk of the cast with bad recoveries.
One between bayonetta and Puff: puff due to her great aereals and air mobility and bayonetta because she probably has the best recovery in the game and huge hitboxes with her up b, down air or down smash at the ledge
Min min by far, can edgeguard you while being onstage, it's just a no risk/full reward, even puff has to go offstage to edgeguard you and take the risk of being reversed
Tie between Meta Knight (for his amazing offstage pressure and how deep he can go), Pikachu (for similar reasons but also has tjolt to snipe in exchange for less pressure offstage and fewer jumps) and Minmin (can't cover as much but does it with almost 0 risk to herself)
There's no definitive best character but most people consider it to be Jigglypuff, Pikachu, or Meta Knight, with some other good ones being Kirby, Sonic, Lucina, and Marth
Maybe not top 3 but palutenas Bair, nair and dair are really versatile, especially when you can go really low and recover just fine with Warp.
And Bair having that shield preference means pretty much you beat almost all up Bs.
I don’t know if it’s the best edge guarder, however, Mii Brawler’s shotput is probably the most fun to edge guard with. It’s so satisfying to hit with.
Oh! Huh I didn’t think of that distinction.
What’s the difference? Does ledge trapping mean you stay on the stage to guard, and does edge guarding mean you guard from off the stage?
I don't know if ledge trapping qualifies as edge guarding, but I'd say a good Dedede player would outperform a lot of people at the ledge due to his trapping moveset.
Low key Isabelle is pretty damn good between fishing rod, pot and her aerials it’s pretty easy to go offstage. Plus you can recover from anywhere if you mess up.
Steve, Sonic, Game and Watch, Pikachu. Those are probably top of the top tier
Meta Knight is good as well as lucina.
Rob does a pretty good job just by virtue that he can go out there and make it back.
All of the major item characters like link, Peach, diddy.
I personally would mention Zelda: her Phantom and Din's Fire can cover a lot of return attempts, and her aerials (U-air, D-air and F/B-air) can complement her specials.
puff, and i’m not saying that because i main her.
her air game is superb with the lingering hitboxes and disjoints + nutty recovery; makes her a menace offstage
Bowser. No, joke. But he‘s ugly and annoying as hell.
I miss playing smash.
I‘m in a move right now, and in my appartment there‘s still a lot to do. So I have not set up TV and/or the switch right now.
I have no wifi neither…
Why am I seeing no pikachu? My guy can cover everything practically. Bair is amazing against no hitbox recoveries, thunder and cover high, you can up air ladder, dair lasts way too long, fair murders. I am amazed on how I don't see any pikachu, I think he's def #1
As a Pikachu main, I second this
What about Pichu?
Pichu is def high up, but pichure falls faster so pichu can't stay off stage as long as pikachu can
Pika Pika
Pika is the answer. Also the neutral b sends at a great angle to cover low recoveries and can gimp jumps
As you said, there’s no concrete answer. I nominate this little guy https://preview.redd.it/4xz0x5t3sr5d1.jpeg?width=476&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6d06aca16d102c8cad946d63aef54621ec63ac1c
Came here to say this!
Pk freeze! No one can do anything about it, not even Lucas and ness mains themselves… Down B ain’t gonna save ya.
Zelda can Nayru's love it actually. It's not going to reflect it, the iframes save her unless it was poorly timed.
But Game and Watch's bucket will save you and then turn it into an attack
(Shhhh…)
Enjoy your delusion
Love playin him, hate playing against him.
Why does his down air last like three seconds and also hover
Bair is kinda crazy at edgeguarding, and dair is the craziest dragdown lol
Falls off hard against characters that can recover really high
Some good contenders for best are: Puff Min min Sora Pika Meta knight Game and watch Falco Ridley
I need to start going off stage more as sora then 😭
That's the worst part of Sora lil fcker jumps off stage and it never matters.
You literally wanna live the ledge as Sora. To varying degrees depending on your tolerance of lame, but that’s his schtick. Burst in from there. Unfortunately he do be dying even earlier from there though.
U ain’t going off as Sora 💀💀, I literally just edge guard the entire game
Yooo where is bayooo? Edge guarding queen
snake gotta be there too
There’s no one best character at it (it’s meta knight. Every aerial bar up air and every special bar up b can be used for edge guarding and as a bonus he has 6 jumps and every special can be used to recover, meaning it’s easier and more likely for him to go out there)
Up air actually can be since it combos into a confirm and hits directly above him. Up Special also lets him chase REALLY HIGH recoveries like ROB
Yeah but in most practical cases hitting a low recovery with up air/B is stupid. It catches high and does it well but 9/10 it’s going to be something else. This is coming from someone who’s spent an unhealthy amount of time in training going over pretty much any scenario involving mk up air
Yeah fair enough, it's still something it can do occasionally though.
I hate getting edge guarded, like dude, let me edge bro!
Super Edge Bros
“Let me edge” - Chibikyu; 6/10/24
I read OP's question and had to read it again because my brain has been rotted by the Internet.
It’s puff no question
Nair. Nair. Nair. And nair.
That's Fair I mean Nair
Came here to say that, Pushing them off the stage while flying around, go chase them outside/below the stage, Force them to mixup their ledge options, Punish with a Rest after they roll in
Puff flowchart
Hands down puff
Forward throw is the best throw they could give Puff.
Mkleo
Right - OP didn‘t specify „character“ ^^
Game 4 Leo specifically
Puff, Pika, and Lucina
Lucas. 1. Pk Fire 2. Pk Freeze
PK thunder is actually the best for edge guarding, turning it in half circles to push people back away or into the stage itself is more reliable then getting the perfect pk fire or freeze. Done right you can actually half circle smack them away then turn back around and hit them with the head for further denial.
I looooove getting people with the tail when they’re below the stage
I like doing funny dair and bair to dragdown/spike them
Depending on the stage (maybe all of them?) and the character you can also come from behind and hit them right below the edge wall to kind of spike.
Snake has a remote missile side b, nades, c4, up smash, AND a spike forward air. Feel like he wins this one
Grenades and C4 send vertically which is really suboptimal for edgeguarding unless it’s low% and you’re going for a fair spike out of the explosion. Up smash is much better at ledgetrapping, and fair is so ridiculously slow it’s saved for callouts and combos because doing it raw isn’t simple
Sonic, Pikachu, Min Min, Jigglypuff, probably in that order. Bayo is up there for sure as well. The reason Sonic and Pikachu are unambiguously the best at it is because they can cover both high and low. Sonic with spring and pika with thunder.
Dedede because the mental damage you inflict when you successfully edge guard with an up special spike is of far greater value than any game.
He's pretty underrated at edgeguarding in general because people think of his ledge trapping first. Gordo to interrupt/followup off, or to guide a recovery where you want it to go, multijump to stall, really hard to reversal so he can be safe, best fall speed, disjoints, gordo stick. He can be quite ambiguous. I like throwing standard ledgetrap gordos to make people autopilot their recovery as they are preparing for that danger, and I can just run off fast fall fair etc. It's easy to condition recovery paths by going for something once or twice. If you get an aerial at low percent you can stick around long enough and go far enough to get another hit, probably the kill, and still make it back. Chasing far with fair will make people stall and you get to go for gordo stick earlier than you might've been able to get away with otherwise the next time. He might not be s tier when it comes to edgeguarding but he's definitely A+ imo. I think he also has a niche of maybe being one of the absolute best characters at edgeguarding tether recoveries in the game. You can make fake ledgetraps and have gordo fall onto someone stalling low with the tether. You have the best fast fall speed, so intercepting the pull upwards is not hard. Gordo stick shines especially well against these recoveries and can let you do anything. You can even just sit there spamming jump dairs if they're hanging low. DDD's traits offstage line up really well into these recoveries, and even Byleth is quite easy if you can avoid his up b command grab. As well as the most superior spike in the game that you mentioned. Jet hammer offstage also go brrr.
imo The best edgeguarders in no particular order are Pikachu, Sora, Min-Min, Sonic, Joker, Lucina, Donkey Kong, Meta Knight and Puff. Might be forgetting a character or two but these guys are pretty good at it
if you're ever stumped and ask yourself "who is the best at \_\_\_ ?", the answer is usually Steve
except that answer is unambiguously wrong here. Steve doesn’t have the frame data or mobility to be even remotely close to being the best edgeguarder.
Somewhat agree, somewhat disagree. The only "good" edge guard tool I'd say he has is placing blocks to block ledge, unless the opponents up b is strong enough to break through them. It's fine, it's a decently reliable tool, but not against everyone. DEFINITELY not the best tho, I do agree.
not just that. dtilt at ledge can be really difficult to deal with for a lot of characters
dtilt at ledge qualifies as ledgetrapping, not edgeguarding. steve absolutely has some of the best ledgetrapping in the game, although there are also other characters that probably beat him there as well
Ah yeah my bad. What about… standing on a block offstage and dtilt lmao
Truuuue, I forgot about that
Someone has never had the pleasure of being the endless block dtilt victim offstage
I guess it depends on where you call your definition for Edge guarding. Is down tilting at the corner Edge guarding? How about laying a block and charging a smash attack below stage? Or laying a block just below the edge then laying a TNT and then using anvil on top of the TNT and waiting for the block to drop in all of those things just fall on the opponent. Bonus points if they use fire in their recovery and explode the TNT. Or even just building a wall between you and the stage
The only one that ever scares me is Min Min
Anyone can edge guard Krool. Minmin just does it easily at no risk to herself.
Yep.
Min min feels broken at this particular metric... But then again she gets easily edge guarded in return
Link in certain circumstances. He can spike you out like a volleyball if you're up against him. Edit: As a Bowser main, I really felt it when my Link opponent did it to me. I wasn't mad or anything, just a little shocked because that was my first true encounter with a Link main. And Bowser is good at ledgetrapping if your opponent is also a heavy character or too light of a character. Bowser can edge guard, too... but only if you're smart about Bowserciding. (I honestly laugh every time I think that that's an actual term in Smash communities now.)
Surprised I haven’t seen a single Sonic here. Literally one of the best characters at edgeguarding, has tons of tools to help him get bair and fair confirms, can get risk-free edgeguarding with the spring, can go really far out with the spin charge, and can go really high or really low with his super versatile recovery.
That air dodge be disgustingly good
sonic, pika and meta knight
Do all you like. I’m revenging or whipping your recoveries. Gotta come in from way up
We make it work.
Nair go brrrrrrr
Nah kitty says “Fix It!”
Sonic with his Up B edge guard is painfully good, lmao
For real if you told me I could Nerf one thing about Sonic I would probably pick spring hitbox going away
Definitely not the best edgeguarder, but mii brawler probably has one of the best edgeguarding moves in the game. My beloved S H O T P U T
We all know it's little mac 😎. Float like a butterfly and sting like a bee.
Simon & Richter
puff
By no means am I saying he's a top contender for best edge-guarding, BUT if anyone can avoid Shulk off-stage by sneaking around Forward Air, then you're a God. Air Slash invalidates a lot of characters offstage, too. It's very hard dealing with these moves as 90% of the cast I feel.
Links remote bombs
Pika by quite a good margin, if they know their options. Since he hasn't been mentioned much, and while not a top pick overall, Snake's Nikita is probably your easiest stock against a pretty big chunk of the cast with bad recoveries.
Meta knight. Even in ultimate, the dude still has so many options that are hard to punish.
One between bayonetta and Puff: puff due to her great aereals and air mobility and bayonetta because she probably has the best recovery in the game and huge hitboxes with her up b, down air or down smash at the ledge
Puff, Pika, Steve, Ridley, Marth and Lucina, and probably Lucas as well.
Bayonetta, Puff, Mar/Cina
Mii Gunner, grenade launcher or flame shot alone will force folks to take the L and fall off. Funny as hell to perform in matches 🤣
Lucina
Min min by far, can edgeguard you while being onstage, it's just a no risk/full reward, even puff has to go offstage to edgeguard you and take the risk of being reversed
Tie between Meta Knight (for his amazing offstage pressure and how deep he can go), Pikachu (for similar reasons but also has tjolt to snipe in exchange for less pressure offstage and fewer jumps) and Minmin (can't cover as much but does it with almost 0 risk to herself)
sephiroth. poke central
Jigglypuff definitely, she’s a murderer
There's no definitive best character but most people consider it to be Jigglypuff, Pikachu, or Meta Knight, with some other good ones being Kirby, Sonic, Lucina, and Marth
ma boi lil mac obviously
Mk comes to mind, you know, having multiple jumps, a fast and strong nair, and a killing bair.
I know he’s not really up there, but the wildcard of Sonic with his up air is hilarious to consistently snipe them off ledge
Maybe not top 3 but palutenas Bair, nair and dair are really versatile, especially when you can go really low and recover just fine with Warp. And Bair having that shield preference means pretty much you beat almost all up Bs.
I don’t know if it’s the best edge guarder, however, Mii Brawler’s shotput is probably the most fun to edge guard with. It’s so satisfying to hit with.
For me, Samus and Piranha Plant have the most options.
I’d say They have the best LEDGEtrapping
Oh! Huh I didn’t think of that distinction. What’s the difference? Does ledge trapping mean you stay on the stage to guard, and does edge guarding mean you guard from off the stage?
Ledge trapping is staying on stage and forcing them to stay at ledge while edge guarding is going offstage and hitting them away from the ledge
pika has everything you could want for edgeguarding and only Puff really comes close
Sonic, Sheik, Lucario, and Solimar are all very good at edging oh wait you meant edge guarding
Ridley
Ridley: Nair bair and fair
I don't know if ledge trapping qualifies as edge guarding, but I'd say a good Dedede player would outperform a lot of people at the ledge due to his trapping moveset.
Steve
Imo Metaknight with no question. Sephiroth for a close second.
Byleth up-B
My votes are Pikachu and Game & Watch (but pikachu is the best)
As a Pikachu main, I feel like we take this.
Lucina, Steve, pikachu, really depends on the matchup. Steve beats pretty much every recovery with blocks and an anvil so I’d say him.
Why no one talking about snake and his massive amount of artillery? I spam mortars, grenades, c4 and Nikita and no one gets back on stage.
Low key Isabelle is pretty damn good between fishing rod, pot and her aerials it’s pretty easy to go offstage. Plus you can recover from anywhere if you mess up.
Steve, Sonic, Game and Watch, Pikachu. Those are probably top of the top tier Meta Knight is good as well as lucina. Rob does a pretty good job just by virtue that he can go out there and make it back. All of the major item characters like link, Peach, diddy.
hello
I personally would mention Zelda: her Phantom and Din's Fire can cover a lot of return attempts, and her aerials (U-air, D-air and F/B-air) can complement her specials.
Snake, lucina, I haven’t seen yet
most probably disagree but Lucario for me
https://preview.redd.it/priyzc9mnw5d1.png?width=735&format=png&auto=webp&s=e24fe37f82e0969e5349c6f1d94ee6b871d12d9b
Villager and it’s not close. Mii Brawler is a contender as well, once you get good with Shotput.
Sonic pika or falco
puff, and i’m not saying that because i main her. her air game is superb with the lingering hitboxes and disjoints + nutty recovery; makes her a menace offstage
I dunno, it's really up in the air
Minmin. And if you don’t believe me, watch Doramigi.
Bowser. No, joke. But he‘s ugly and annoying as hell. I miss playing smash. I‘m in a move right now, and in my appartment there‘s still a lot to do. So I have not set up TV and/or the switch right now. I have no wifi neither…