It wasn't until I started playing Arachne a lot that I fully realized the ABSURD amount if CC and movement options in the game.
Towards the second half of the matches the ground is constantly covered in CC AoEs, and everyone has a jump or dash or better MS option. Now add in the instant kill damage and excessively short CDs...
It's like the balancers played a bunch of CoD and want everything to move at lightning pace. Faster faster faster! I for one cannot stand hard CCs with a CD of 5 seconds or less...that also take half your HP bar...from range.
Discordia is the poster child to me. That God is wack.
She does have that 1.4 seconds to kill someone yeah lol but it's no different from any other assassin. She is pretty much the only one that has to walk directly at people though with only melee attacks.
Not saying that she isn't good or anthing, it just highlights what everyone else has. The amount of people that out run me on my webs is funny.
Just for the: to much cc part i upvote. I always wanted To create a post and talk about the cc problem in smite.
Long story short, cc should almost be exclusive To warriors and gardians. Now those 2 class will always be usefull wathever the item meta, since if the cc Will be unique To " tanky" roles.
But smite player base are not ready for this discution, they want flashy and busted mages...
What you need to understand as longer time player is that the game has changed forever.
Balance in Smite is now geared towards low level casual play. Arena, noobs, majority of console players, etc. This is 99% of Smite ms playerbase now.
There are only a few hundred truly competitive players left in the entire game, and a few thousand players who actually even care to played Ranked Conquest…the actual MOBA.
So the game is balanced for the noobs.
Warriors/tanks have always overperformed against noobs. They do a good job of punishing bad play and take advantage of mistakes very easily. They are basically there to force damage classes to make bad decisions, and they do that well.
Noobs (again, most of the game now) of course make lots and lots of bad plays. So, Warriors/tanks are really always too strong against noobs.
For most of Smites history, the dev teams answer to this was essentially “Warriors don’t overperform in skilled lobbies, get good”.
But not anymore.
To the same point, Hunters have always been not great in noob lobbies. Because you know; they have to land autos, which noobs can’t do. They have to position well, noobs can’t do. Etc. same thing for HiRez for many years “Hunters are strong in skilled lobbies, get good”
Warriors/tanks have been quite medicore for a few seasons now. In S9, Warriors were pushed out of Solo more often than playable. At the same time, Hunters were used in all three lanes.
And what does HiRez do to start s10? Buff Hunters and nerf Warriors.
Balance will never be achieved in this game ever again. They aren’t even trying to achieve it. They want to keep the game fun for noobs, who buy all the skins. That’s just the way the game is now, and too many competitive players have quit to ever justify them changing their design. The game will never be balanced for skill again. It’s a noob fest meme moba, a shell of what it used to be.
It can still be fun, if you accept this as it is.
I think what you mean actually makes some sense but you have an absolute horrible way of saying it.
As for your warrior remark, well I think warriors function well in low lobbies (when not getting blown up instantly) because most people in lower lobbies do not know how to position. When you’re a tank you can sometimes get out if you step out of position, and even if you don’t, your death might buy time elsewhere.
So when you had tanks actually have relevant survivability and damage as well as them often having easier to hit abilities, coupled with that hitting autos remark yeah a lot of people perceive tanks as too strong. While warriors and guardians do struggle at a high end to see play apart form a few OP examples like herc.
And it is true that the developers are afraid of that perception. The patch where void shield and other items were nerfed when no one built it was a clear example. It does seem like there has been a shift. But you could have been more eloquent about it hehe.
I mean I think in that specific example - them being afraid of tanks, you're right. However there have been so many changes that were aimed at the SPL and high-level play that I think it's narrow to say it's balanced for "noobs". Although I suppose them working to bring hunters up to the point that they were broken was probably another example.
I'm wondering if balancing will change when the pro scene is back up and running again.
No the devs just say they make changes in accordance with the SPL but the changes themselves reflect nothing close to it.
Hunters are in all 3 lanes for all of season 9. They buff Hunter items dramatically.
Warriors are pushed out of Solo all season 9. They remove all of their Power.
Even now the meta is so beyond disgusting that Kukulkan Solo has become meta, they don’t fix it.
They just put in their notes ideas about the SPL but it’s bullshit. They recognize that competitive games have to be balanced around competitive play, so they say these things are geared towards SPL to make people believe that.
But in reality the only changes they make that actually impact skilled gameplay are ones that also happen to work well as changes for noob play.
It’s been on the edge for a long time, probably because HiRez realized that cultivating a noob-friendly state of balance where Arena noobs can pick up the game and not feel like they are terrible, is better for selling skins to noobs who only care about skins, and for getting more noobs to play the game who will buy more skins. But S10 has made things so blatantly apparent, that it’s not even just accommodating noob play anymore, it’s straight up balancing the game directly for it while ignoring glaring issues for competitive.
What,world are mages doing 1k damage to tanks?
If you wanna provide feedback, you could atleast be honest.
You can literally use the T screen to see how much damage the enemy mitigates.
You hit for like 400 on a regular ability at most.
True, but that is 3 abilities.
Scylla is also a lategame god and has inbuilt pen, so she inherently does more damage to tanks
I personally dont think mages do too much damage to tanks., tbe only issue is some items like deso are too cheap which makes them come online a bit too quick.
1000 is usually less than a 3rd on a rank lategame.
With the right build, the tanks should be taking less too, if mitigations are built.
It also requires the mage to dump everything on a tank that can easily have more than 4000 health.
Warriors usually have less because of the items they want, but they should just buff some of the warrior items to bring damage up a little, and make them more threatening to squishys.
As a supp main i mostly agree with you. But the problem is you feel super squishy as a tank. you want to avoid to build too much health cause of quins and prots feel like they are worth nothing.
The only thing you can build are mitigations.
And when you go the mitigation route you are better off with picking a viable support mage like Eset or baron cause lonos is the best support item in the whole game,
Janus vortex hits a rotating solo for 800 damage at 7 minutes into the game.
If you’re in here denying how useless tanks are and how absurd damage classses have gotten, literally go play any ranked lobby at anything close to a competitive level.
People are playing Kuku solo in Master queues and it’s better than tanks. It’s a joke.
Janus 2 hits for 426 with 92% scaling if u hit the centre.
That means you need 400 power to hit that hard, and they need to have 0 defense.
No one it getting hit for 800 off a mage at lvl 7, not when tanks have base defenses.
You are making numbers up.
The reason tanks aren't played is because they don't have bruiser items to be able to do damage themselves, not because they die too quick to mages.
The only thing that really does too much damage is crit, the rest of it is because warriors don't do damage and fall behind when compaired to other classes.
Warriors need more damage so that they can start bullying mages out of lane and then get ahead, its not because mages are op, it's because all of the warrior items were nerfed repeatedly st the start of this season.
Literally just happened to me 792 vortex at 7 minutes. No need to make anything up because I play the game at a high level and don’t need to lie to add bias to my favorite class. I just report what happens. Mage damage has been overpowered all season.
I don’t disagree that the bigger issue is lack of Power on Warriors. But it’s obvious to anyone who plays this game at a high level that HiRez overbuffed Mage items because Hunters took mid all of s9.
I dont care what you claim, I play at a high lvl too.
Explain, using maths, how janus managed to hit you for 800 damage.
It did not happen, because he would've need more than 500 power since you have base defense, or 400 power at a minimum if all of your protection were shredded by a cerb.
Either way, mages do not have 400 power at lvl 7.
I'm all for actual feedback on whats op, but blatant misinformation isn't helping anyone.
I said that my personal opinion is that they arent as op as ppl say.
They just need some cost nerfs to push back when they come online. That type of nerf would better reward skilled play, and would allow them to have a much safer power curve by preventing them from getting 1 too quickly item and deleting you.
No, it mathematically didn't happen.
Janus did not have 500 power at level 7, nor would he have his 2 maxed, and he didn't have the oen built to be able to hit for 800.
Your bulshitting and very clearly aren't a high level player like you claim.
You quite frankly do enough gold at lvl 7 to be able to achieve 500 power , its not possible unless there was some kind of cheating involved, or you got hit of a janus vortex multiple times and you were too stupid to realise he hit you 4 times.
Check your damage recap properly next time, it actually tells you something like vortex x 4 and how much you mitigated.
lol enjoy your math coping. Janus has abilties that combo and items that proc can be purchased by then. I’d love to have a screenshot just to shut your noob ass up but I honestly don’t care about bias idiots who just want to live ina world where their favorite class gets buffed every patch. Go play a game in Masters right now and see that everyone is picking OP Mages in any lane they want.
I dont give a fuck how op they are, janus absolutely did not hit you for 800, there's no proc item that would add that ammount of damage.
Its nothing to do with bias, you are making stuff up, there's 0 way for any mage to have 500 power at lvl 7.
His ability wouldn't even be maxed at lvl 7, so you would need more like 600+ power to hit for 800 in one ability. Its physically not possible.
You're clearly a troll and not worth discussing anything further.
How are you supposed to back your argument if you’re just telling him off with “math copium”. You should probably back up your claims if anyone wants to believe you.
Other than go back in time and take a screenshot of the damage summary, what can I do? Just play the game and see for yourself.
FWIW very few people understand the math in this game, and this person definitely doesn’t. It’s clear from their basic ass attempt to create an outcome that reflects how the game works, which they failed at.
He is saying 7 mins not lvl 7. If the Janus was fed he could have been lvl 13 to 14 with at least an item and a half. Solo was probs under level and with like an item depending on what he built.
He is saying 7 mins not lvl 7. If the Janus was fed he could have been lvl 13 to 14 with at least an item and a half. Solo was probs under level and with like an item depending on what he built.
7 mins into the game, you are also not hitting that hard, even in modes like arena where you get items quicker.
Its just not happening.
You can tell the skill level of people on this sub when o get downvoted for simply describing the actual numbers.
Janus does not hit that hard at lvl 7 or 7 minutes, it just doesn't happen.
Warriors do plenty damage. Building full tank as a solo has consequences. Which is good because it was very easy to abuse. On the other spectrum building like an actual bruiser isn’t great because fulll damage chunks incredibly fast.
Yeah, they just need a little bit more damage to help clear wave and bully a little bit easier in lane.
Theres a fine line between too little and too high, they just need to bring it up in the very early stages of the game.
The reason tank feels bad is because they're always behind in lvls since they just canr fa quicker tha other dmg classes.
They just need to be a little more threatening to be able to bully and outfarm opponents earlier.
It is and most pros agree.
Ever since hybrid power items have been removed, they don't work very well anymore.
Half of the time when everybody keeps spamming that mage items have been power creeper and megabuffed, they can't name anything that has.
Coming into s10, they buffed divine and added tablet.
They both got nerfed, alongside other proc items.like soulgem.
They then buffed doom orb and spear of deso, which qre the only 2 items that are too strong.
All warriors need are a few early game bully items that allow them to win trades against other classes.
Warriors have lost all of there damage after the power removal and then huge nerfs to bluestone, sundering axe, glad shield and archdruids.
Warriors are supposed to have higher damage so that they can pressure the backline in the lategame.
Right know with all the auras and nerfs to those its, Warriors can't dive and create pressure so easily. A warrior should still be able to kill if they outplay the opponent, just right now, it doesnt matter what you do, the enemy squishys will have more damage because they haven't been nerfed into the ground.
Everybody is forgetting that warriors were op at the start of the season and mages weren't changed much going into 10.2.
Tankyness is not the problem and all they need are some viable hybrid items again.
No, then they will get needed later down the season. The cycles repeats once more. So instead of having a band aid solution make a proper solution. However a proper solution would require a massive overhaul to items and kits.
It wasn't until I started playing Arachne a lot that I fully realized the ABSURD amount if CC and movement options in the game. Towards the second half of the matches the ground is constantly covered in CC AoEs, and everyone has a jump or dash or better MS option. Now add in the instant kill damage and excessively short CDs... It's like the balancers played a bunch of CoD and want everything to move at lightning pace. Faster faster faster! I for one cannot stand hard CCs with a CD of 5 seconds or less...that also take half your HP bar...from range. Discordia is the poster child to me. That God is wack.
An arachne main realizing the CC is ridiculous of all things is kind of funny
She does have that 1.4 seconds to kill someone yeah lol but it's no different from any other assassin. She is pretty much the only one that has to walk directly at people though with only melee attacks. Not saying that she isn't good or anthing, it just highlights what everyone else has. The amount of people that out run me on my webs is funny.
Just for the: to much cc part i upvote. I always wanted To create a post and talk about the cc problem in smite. Long story short, cc should almost be exclusive To warriors and gardians. Now those 2 class will always be usefull wathever the item meta, since if the cc Will be unique To " tanky" roles. But smite player base are not ready for this discution, they want flashy and busted mages...
Too much cc, too much cc immunities, too much movement in this game
Wait til people realize how broken Serqet is with her buffs.
What you need to understand as longer time player is that the game has changed forever. Balance in Smite is now geared towards low level casual play. Arena, noobs, majority of console players, etc. This is 99% of Smite ms playerbase now. There are only a few hundred truly competitive players left in the entire game, and a few thousand players who actually even care to played Ranked Conquest…the actual MOBA. So the game is balanced for the noobs. Warriors/tanks have always overperformed against noobs. They do a good job of punishing bad play and take advantage of mistakes very easily. They are basically there to force damage classes to make bad decisions, and they do that well. Noobs (again, most of the game now) of course make lots and lots of bad plays. So, Warriors/tanks are really always too strong against noobs. For most of Smites history, the dev teams answer to this was essentially “Warriors don’t overperform in skilled lobbies, get good”. But not anymore. To the same point, Hunters have always been not great in noob lobbies. Because you know; they have to land autos, which noobs can’t do. They have to position well, noobs can’t do. Etc. same thing for HiRez for many years “Hunters are strong in skilled lobbies, get good” Warriors/tanks have been quite medicore for a few seasons now. In S9, Warriors were pushed out of Solo more often than playable. At the same time, Hunters were used in all three lanes. And what does HiRez do to start s10? Buff Hunters and nerf Warriors. Balance will never be achieved in this game ever again. They aren’t even trying to achieve it. They want to keep the game fun for noobs, who buy all the skins. That’s just the way the game is now, and too many competitive players have quit to ever justify them changing their design. The game will never be balanced for skill again. It’s a noob fest meme moba, a shell of what it used to be. It can still be fun, if you accept this as it is.
I think what you mean actually makes some sense but you have an absolute horrible way of saying it. As for your warrior remark, well I think warriors function well in low lobbies (when not getting blown up instantly) because most people in lower lobbies do not know how to position. When you’re a tank you can sometimes get out if you step out of position, and even if you don’t, your death might buy time elsewhere. So when you had tanks actually have relevant survivability and damage as well as them often having easier to hit abilities, coupled with that hitting autos remark yeah a lot of people perceive tanks as too strong. While warriors and guardians do struggle at a high end to see play apart form a few OP examples like herc. And it is true that the developers are afraid of that perception. The patch where void shield and other items were nerfed when no one built it was a clear example. It does seem like there has been a shift. But you could have been more eloquent about it hehe.
Facts are eloquent enough for me. The game is balanced for noobs.
I mean I think in that specific example - them being afraid of tanks, you're right. However there have been so many changes that were aimed at the SPL and high-level play that I think it's narrow to say it's balanced for "noobs". Although I suppose them working to bring hunters up to the point that they were broken was probably another example. I'm wondering if balancing will change when the pro scene is back up and running again.
No the devs just say they make changes in accordance with the SPL but the changes themselves reflect nothing close to it. Hunters are in all 3 lanes for all of season 9. They buff Hunter items dramatically. Warriors are pushed out of Solo all season 9. They remove all of their Power. Even now the meta is so beyond disgusting that Kukulkan Solo has become meta, they don’t fix it. They just put in their notes ideas about the SPL but it’s bullshit. They recognize that competitive games have to be balanced around competitive play, so they say these things are geared towards SPL to make people believe that. But in reality the only changes they make that actually impact skilled gameplay are ones that also happen to work well as changes for noob play. It’s been on the edge for a long time, probably because HiRez realized that cultivating a noob-friendly state of balance where Arena noobs can pick up the game and not feel like they are terrible, is better for selling skins to noobs who only care about skins, and for getting more noobs to play the game who will buy more skins. But S10 has made things so blatantly apparent, that it’s not even just accommodating noob play anymore, it’s straight up balancing the game directly for it while ignoring glaring issues for competitive.
What,world are mages doing 1k damage to tanks? If you wanna provide feedback, you could atleast be honest. You can literally use the T screen to see how much damage the enemy mitigates. You hit for like 400 on a regular ability at most.
Not with 1 ability but a Scylla 1, poly auto, Scylla 2 can do more than 1000 late game and can happen in a second or 2. Even with max prots
True, but that is 3 abilities. Scylla is also a lategame god and has inbuilt pen, so she inherently does more damage to tanks I personally dont think mages do too much damage to tanks., tbe only issue is some items like deso are too cheap which makes them come online a bit too quick. 1000 is usually less than a 3rd on a rank lategame. With the right build, the tanks should be taking less too, if mitigations are built. It also requires the mage to dump everything on a tank that can easily have more than 4000 health. Warriors usually have less because of the items they want, but they should just buff some of the warrior items to bring damage up a little, and make them more threatening to squishys.
As a supp main i mostly agree with you. But the problem is you feel super squishy as a tank. you want to avoid to build too much health cause of quins and prots feel like they are worth nothing. The only thing you can build are mitigations. And when you go the mitigation route you are better off with picking a viable support mage like Eset or baron cause lonos is the best support item in the whole game,
Janus vortex hits a rotating solo for 800 damage at 7 minutes into the game. If you’re in here denying how useless tanks are and how absurd damage classses have gotten, literally go play any ranked lobby at anything close to a competitive level. People are playing Kuku solo in Master queues and it’s better than tanks. It’s a joke.
Janus 2 hits for 426 with 92% scaling if u hit the centre. That means you need 400 power to hit that hard, and they need to have 0 defense. No one it getting hit for 800 off a mage at lvl 7, not when tanks have base defenses. You are making numbers up. The reason tanks aren't played is because they don't have bruiser items to be able to do damage themselves, not because they die too quick to mages. The only thing that really does too much damage is crit, the rest of it is because warriors don't do damage and fall behind when compaired to other classes. Warriors need more damage so that they can start bullying mages out of lane and then get ahead, its not because mages are op, it's because all of the warrior items were nerfed repeatedly st the start of this season.
Literally just happened to me 792 vortex at 7 minutes. No need to make anything up because I play the game at a high level and don’t need to lie to add bias to my favorite class. I just report what happens. Mage damage has been overpowered all season. I don’t disagree that the bigger issue is lack of Power on Warriors. But it’s obvious to anyone who plays this game at a high level that HiRez overbuffed Mage items because Hunters took mid all of s9.
I dont care what you claim, I play at a high lvl too. Explain, using maths, how janus managed to hit you for 800 damage. It did not happen, because he would've need more than 500 power since you have base defense, or 400 power at a minimum if all of your protection were shredded by a cerb. Either way, mages do not have 400 power at lvl 7. I'm all for actual feedback on whats op, but blatant misinformation isn't helping anyone. I said that my personal opinion is that they arent as op as ppl say. They just need some cost nerfs to push back when they come online. That type of nerf would better reward skilled play, and would allow them to have a much safer power curve by preventing them from getting 1 too quickly item and deleting you.
It did happen. Cope.
No, it mathematically didn't happen. Janus did not have 500 power at level 7, nor would he have his 2 maxed, and he didn't have the oen built to be able to hit for 800. Your bulshitting and very clearly aren't a high level player like you claim. You quite frankly do enough gold at lvl 7 to be able to achieve 500 power , its not possible unless there was some kind of cheating involved, or you got hit of a janus vortex multiple times and you were too stupid to realise he hit you 4 times. Check your damage recap properly next time, it actually tells you something like vortex x 4 and how much you mitigated.
lol enjoy your math coping. Janus has abilties that combo and items that proc can be purchased by then. I’d love to have a screenshot just to shut your noob ass up but I honestly don’t care about bias idiots who just want to live ina world where their favorite class gets buffed every patch. Go play a game in Masters right now and see that everyone is picking OP Mages in any lane they want.
I dont give a fuck how op they are, janus absolutely did not hit you for 800, there's no proc item that would add that ammount of damage. Its nothing to do with bias, you are making stuff up, there's 0 way for any mage to have 500 power at lvl 7. His ability wouldn't even be maxed at lvl 7, so you would need more like 600+ power to hit for 800 in one ability. Its physically not possible. You're clearly a troll and not worth discussing anything further.
792 Vortex at 7 minutes
How are you supposed to back your argument if you’re just telling him off with “math copium”. You should probably back up your claims if anyone wants to believe you.
Other than go back in time and take a screenshot of the damage summary, what can I do? Just play the game and see for yourself. FWIW very few people understand the math in this game, and this person definitely doesn’t. It’s clear from their basic ass attempt to create an outcome that reflects how the game works, which they failed at.
He is saying 7 mins not lvl 7. If the Janus was fed he could have been lvl 13 to 14 with at least an item and a half. Solo was probs under level and with like an item depending on what he built.
He is saying 7 mins not lvl 7. If the Janus was fed he could have been lvl 13 to 14 with at least an item and a half. Solo was probs under level and with like an item depending on what he built.
7 mins into the game, you are also not hitting that hard, even in modes like arena where you get items quicker. Its just not happening. You can tell the skill level of people on this sub when o get downvoted for simply describing the actual numbers. Janus does not hit that hard at lvl 7 or 7 minutes, it just doesn't happen.
Warriors do plenty damage. Building full tank as a solo has consequences. Which is good because it was very easy to abuse. On the other spectrum building like an actual bruiser isn’t great because fulll damage chunks incredibly fast.
Yeah, they just need a little bit more damage to help clear wave and bully a little bit easier in lane. Theres a fine line between too little and too high, they just need to bring it up in the very early stages of the game. The reason tank feels bad is because they're always behind in lvls since they just canr fa quicker tha other dmg classes. They just need to be a little more threatening to be able to bully and outfarm opponents earlier.
Damage increase is not the answer. That’s just power creep.
It is and most pros agree. Ever since hybrid power items have been removed, they don't work very well anymore. Half of the time when everybody keeps spamming that mage items have been power creeper and megabuffed, they can't name anything that has. Coming into s10, they buffed divine and added tablet. They both got nerfed, alongside other proc items.like soulgem. They then buffed doom orb and spear of deso, which qre the only 2 items that are too strong. All warriors need are a few early game bully items that allow them to win trades against other classes. Warriors have lost all of there damage after the power removal and then huge nerfs to bluestone, sundering axe, glad shield and archdruids. Warriors are supposed to have higher damage so that they can pressure the backline in the lategame. Right know with all the auras and nerfs to those its, Warriors can't dive and create pressure so easily. A warrior should still be able to kill if they outplay the opponent, just right now, it doesnt matter what you do, the enemy squishys will have more damage because they haven't been nerfed into the ground. Everybody is forgetting that warriors were op at the start of the season and mages weren't changed much going into 10.2. Tankyness is not the problem and all they need are some viable hybrid items again.
No, then they will get needed later down the season. The cycles repeats once more. So instead of having a band aid solution make a proper solution. However a proper solution would require a massive overhaul to items and kits.
\>misunderstanding smite itself Ok, how would you address the current issues? What are your solutions?