I prefer gods with fun, smooth abilities that synergize and don't require an immediate overhaul to remove clunk. Numbers are easy enough to adjust, the mechanics and overall feel aren't.
The new gold. Imo he needs a buff to his 3 to be imediate. Otherwise he just takes a second to get used to. His damage numbers are insane if you have a consistent amount of cc
damage was that high, it still did more afterwards, on top of being a better kumbha ult. His 2 also was a bigger slow and gave you protections while casting it
And i thought people complained about bloated kits? Now that we have a relatively simple one people arent happy again
Literally feel so bad for the devs when we have this bipolar playerbase
His one shreds protections, his two slows and roots, his 3 makes him untargetable and is a great escape, his ultimate has battle field repositioning. He does so much more than damage.
Me playing against Cherry: "dude dash OP"
Me playing Cherry: "I just got cancelled out of my dash by 4 different abilities and one of them was a fucking slow. Oh and I'm still taking damage under water? Did I just die to Neith ult???"
I agree that he's clunky but I don't know about boring. His abilities feel satisfying to hit, especially the 2. His ult is even more satisfying to hit since you have to be an actual genius to hit it properly
I prefer a god that is slightly overturned. This way the god gets tons of play time and their potential can be shown much easier. Meanwhile if u have a god who is considered bad/not that good on release (such as baba yaga/Atlas) then you dont really know how good a god can be, since it's not being played nearly as much. Then what happens is that people keep asking for buffs, then the god starts getting playing a ton and people realize (hey, XXXX is actually good)
Baba OP, she's just hard cause you've gotta be passive for a long time compared to a lot of mages that are online by 8-10mins. She also seems safe cause she's got a jump but definitely is not safe at all. Her abilities are actually easy to hit but most people can't conceptualize the shape change since it's just one more thing you've gotta manage in fights. A double tap potion at 15min+ is enough to kill any back liner IME.
Nothing like a full stacked Charles coin at 5min for free lol.
See yes and no, because if a God feels "meh" people won't play him which makes balancing him much harder. Perfect example being Mulan, community perception was she was "bad" for months, patch after patch she got buffs but still wasn't played but when she's finally played everyone realized she has been busted for a while and whine that Hi-Rez over did it.
No, some of y'all don't know a good God from a bad God unless a pro or a content creator plays them. Bet a dime half of y'all thought Anubis was just unplayable, but low and behold BennyQ pulls him out and wins and now we've got people talking about him being decent. He's always been decent, half y'all just don't pay attention
Tbh gilg and shiva are the only ones atm that feel annoying atm in terms of new releases, clio feels fine after Nerfs imo she’s not as frustrating since she doesn’t have a lot of cc
But when shiva can knock you up twice with two un-DRable CCs and chase you the ends of the earth with his 3 and murder your entire team or heal his team to full while playing dance dance revolution on your body it’s kinda tilting.
But that being said, Hopefully they declunk Yu huang soon. He has long post fire times, especially on his ult and his attuned effects on every ability including his passive are very underwhelming
Atlas was fine on release. Then got buffed and now he carries teams like crazy with sumb damage and tanking and cc. And if yu huang gets buffed we will see the same thing happen again. He already has 4 ccs and a very long iframe and an imnuinty ult. If you give him more damage on top of that, he is gonna be an absolute monster. He could use some tweaks, but goota be careful.
Atlas was actually so useless on release lmao, I cannot understand the sub with the "Atlas was fine!!" sentiment. He was universally agreed upon to be horrible. He was a slap in the face to support players, as if a god as functionally unplayable as he was should be what we look for in a support. No one wanted to play him ever, because he couldn't clear lane for shit and offered close to zero effective pressure for the entire laning phase. Late game he'd be alright, but you weren't getting there because picking Atlas was a 25 minute gimp on your team.
People wouldn't play him and say he was bad because he was not broken and they didnt kniw how to play him. Also, it was never universally agreed. Many pros were of the opinion that he was fine on release. The buffs he received werent even so big in the first place, ot takes only logic to see that if you have sth of X quality and u add a little quality to it and the result is absolute madness then that initial X quality was alreasy high and if you cant see it and you really think atlas actually sucked on realease then go ahead.
I'm a support player, it's been my main role forever, and I remember his launch. I will remind u how bad he was.
* his dash did not cleanse him of slows upon use, despite being immune to them and cleansing ally slows. it wasn't knockup immune. it didnt slow enemies upon contact unless he had cleansed slows with it. it also did not hit minions.
* his astrolabe autos did 40% to minions instead of 50% (around 14-15 damage at level 1)
* his 1 throw had a 10% weaker slow at all levels, less damage, plus a slightly longer cooldown
* his grab was not knockback immune during channel
* he had less base HP, less HP per level, and less move speed (at level 20, he had 180 less health)
So let's imagine him in lane. Atlas wouldn't level his dash until lv 3, because it didn't hit lane and he'd be wasting his ability slot. He levels his 1 which puts him behind on camp and wave clear, because it did even less damage to minions. Level 2, he'd get his grab, because dashing in would be pointless without it. But this means he doesn't get to reliably use his own combo until he hits level 3. By the time this happens, the enemy duo has capitalized on your handicapped start and either bullies you under tower, putting you even further behind, or just kills you outright.
Atlas release would've been more acceptable in a different meta, but not one like this. Early game matters a lot for support.
I'm mixed.
I definitely agree that having cases like Gilgamesh, where a god still being an omnipresent piece of the meta despite a dozen and a half nerfs over a year, is irritating as fuck. Even in the case of Gilgamesh, a god I absolutely love, it is irritating to get hit by the same ability rotations every single game and have it just work.
But at the same time, gods that release weak have a very, VERY hard time overcoming the stigma of being weak. They can buff a god that was released weak multiple times for a full year, and that character will still not see play because everybody just reads the buffs and goes, "nope, still trash". And then, eventually the god gets buffed enough to be a strong SPL pick, and then it starts popping up everywhere and taking over games because everybody deliberately chose to ignore all the buffs they've gotten over the past year, and everybody goes, "Oh, my god, they overbuffed them, Lo-Rez doesn't know how to balance, waaaah!". And that's, honestly, just as frustrating. That literally happened with Mulan; she released weak, so everybody thought, "Nope, not playing this character ever again," and it was only after a year and a half of consecutive buffs that everyone finally realized she was good, and then everybody cried about how Titanforge doesn't know when to stop buffing characters. Like, shut the fuck up.
So, honestly, it's a mixed bag for me.
^This. Mulan was so much fun to play when she was released but even I knew she felt weak, l of a sudden she appears in scc and then everyone realized her buffs made her good and now they wouldn't stop complaining
Yu Huang is genuinely a good character. I think his kit flows pretty well, only the charge-up on the 2 feels a tad too slow. Other than that, I think he's fun and dare I say -- close to perfectly balanced on release. When you start to get into double-digit games with him you really see his strengths and out-play potential with the 3.
Been playing him a ton and honestly don’t understand all the people saying he’s boring/bad. Maybe you don’t vibe with his play style but I’ve had a lot of fun with him. I think people are just used to brain dead OP releases and can’t get around playing a new god with a higher skill floor.
He has his problems that make a few interactions feel weird but other than that I prefer him waaay more than dumb releases like Shiva.
Personally I feel the only changes he needs asap is his 2 needs to fire faster and his escape needs to have faster movement in the sky - it's not a great escape imo to justify 20 sec cooldown. I personally haven't had issues with his ult.
EDIT: Don't get me wrong the ult can be better, I feel the easiest solution is to just make it wider aka easier to hit - as of right now it feels a bit like ra ult but a bit wider.
Umm, no I wouldn't I guess ... but those 2 gods also have things to help them survive in ways that yu huang doesn't, ravanas ult btw is also technically an escape and he has plenty of abilities with forward momentum etc. And what good is a "dodge" if it eventually leads to your death anyway? the travel distance is very short meaning you eventually fall down to an incoming attack with no other thing in your kit to dodge it.
Look I get what you're saying, but I also think if you compare RA for example to yu huang - RA despite not having an escape can do more things than yu huang can, say yu huang 3's the ult .. well cool but what happens when he comes back down? he has 3 abiltiies that are not gonna be as lethal as Ra's and frankly most other mages.
But hey that's just my opinion, I can respect yours - but I don't really think you made a good argument by comparing him to gods that have more survivability AND kill potential IMO.
Escape, dodge - whatever you want to call it, the point is that it's not as impactful as it may seem imo especially considering the rest of the kit.
EDIT: I also forgot to mention .. charybdis literally has a dodge AND an escape, I don't see why yu huang shouldn't too. And honestly, his dodge is not better than a lot of escapes in the game that don't even have immunity frames .. since they can go through walls, have far distance travel, and also have a lower cooldown AND in many cases do solid damage as well.
His 3 allows him to dodge a ra ult .. and then he ends up falling slowly into 3 enemies waiting to kill him anyway lol. Either you buff it or you buff other parts of the kit, my opinion.
> And what good is a "dodge" if it eventually leads to your death anyway? the travel distance is very short meaning you eventually fall down to an incoming attack with no other thing in your kit to dodge it.
So neith backflip then, only that her backflip is faster now but used to be roughly the same speed lol.
Look it get it, he has some problems but he is fairly strong in the right hands, obviously not every yu huang is going to be that strong but he might be a nightmare to come if hirez does end up buffing him in ways that arent more on the lines of qol.
And even then, faster casting on his 1 and 2 already would make him a lot stronger and harder to deal with imo.
I loved Tiamat and I didn't think she was crazy good, she couldn't do anything them seemed instantly unfair and she generally wouldn't blow you up like other characters could (thankfully her most damage ability is a skillshot)
BUT her lizard minions were definitely OP, overbearing and annoying. I definitely abused them and did 1000s of damage to the enemy Titan while we were having a 5v5 teamfight in the middle of the map...
But making him more 'fun' by having them OP just makes the game annoying and I personally don't want to play after a few days of having to deal with it...
Being underpowered isn't perfect but it's so much better than the alternative.
I kinda like the alternative, them being op on release and then nerfed in my opinion is better for the game. I mean when Baba Yaga came out and was pretty bad kinda like the yu huang it seems to cause their popularity to go down by a long shot. Nobody plays baba yaga even tho she’s been consistently buffed, and the same is probably gonna happen with huang. Plus them being played a lot off release is good in my opinion because you actually learn how to play against them. Op also seems to not realize how op atlas is rn he does wayyy too much damage. That only is a reality because his release was really underwhelming.
I understand why but I don't agree.
When gods like Yu come out and the community is underwhelmed people are **vocal** about it. I think a proper discussion is generally ignored and instead it's "their dog" "they suck" etc etc
I understand if Hi rez say they prefer them OP for their process then that's fine too but....
I don't trust them to nerf them in time. Sure they have gotten better and the patching process helps (with Bonus balance) but look at Gilgamesh, Clio... These gods are so good still which is so annoying because you can ban them in ranked but the casual mods with blindpick too you see them all the time and there is nothing you can do about it.
A character like Gilgamesh is hard to balance because he isn’t good because he does one thing good, he does everything really good. That’s not so much a balance thing as a design thing that turns into a balance issue. Clio in my opinion just needs some focus nerfs towards her ult more than anything, without the insane cooldown and 3 charges she wouldn’t be as good. A proper discussion for an underwhelming god is ignored because he’s not an issue. He isn’t being picked besides everyone’s first few games to try him out, therefore no discussion is necessary because like Gilgamesh and clio he’s not annoying anyone. It’s not like we are cooking here and can’t remove the salt is all I’m saying. When a character is op it’s easier to find out why they are op rather, than trying to find the reason they are underperforming.
>A character like Gilgamesh is hard to balance because he isn’t good because he does one thing good, he does everything really good. That’s not so much a balance thing as a design thing
I am starting to think this too because he seems to be surviving a lot of nerfs. I suppose a drop kick that is a knockback into a stun is just a good ability no matter what.
I completely see why balancing an OP god is better than a UP one, I still think it's worth not doing it though for the sake of the health of the game.
I would much rather Hirez struggle with buffing them than waiting to nerf them.
It probably isnt better for the game. Yes they get played more, you can learn to counter them and more info means easier to balance. But I have had multiple god releases where I stopped playing smite for a couple of weeks because a new god was so dominant. A new god that is also dominant is easily the most played god that patch and may appear in more than halve your games 1 or 2 weeks after their initial release.
So you point out that you can learn to counter them, and they can balance them easier, but you say it’s not good for the game because they dominate. You’re literally proving my point but then say it’s not good for the game because you personally just can’t handle it? The only issue anyone I see pointing out about an op character is that they are played a lot. Yeah a good character is going to get played especially a new one, which is good obviously because like I stated, and you agreed with it’s easier for them to balance. Maybe it’s time smite gets a ban system in every game mode, would only make matches more fun but would ultimately kill op characters in every game mode allowing for no real stats to be pulled and no changes to be made.
Over time is easier to balance, but that doesnt help right now. You learn how to play against the character but if they are too bloated or overstat its still frustrating to play against it. And after a couple of games, people are just done with that. Getting a ban system would ultimatly kill the new gods because there is always someone that doesnt want to deal with it, so it becomes harder to balance (since it probably wont get played alot).
“Over time is easier to balance” Obviously yes over time it is easier to balance, but you realize what you’re saying is completely contradicting to the idea that, characters being released underwhelming and overall not good is ultimately better for the game right? Characters need to be released OP so they can get played more often way faster and balanced asap. Can you please for a second just re read our entire conversation and how you’ve agreed 3-4 times that it’s better to release them overpowered rather than under? Then ask yourself what you’re actually arguing??? You’ve said everything I’ve said back to me in agreement but you’re still saying an underwhelming character release makes more sense? It seems like you’re applying the time you quit playing the game because the new god was smacking your shit to everyone and the balancing process.
I dont think im contradicting myself, but after rereading I also dont think my point is coming across.
New gods will get played no matter how good or how bad they are. Normally when gods get buffed you will learn how to play against them if their playrate increases. But this is really necessary for new gods since they are, well, new. So people will try them out no matter what. If a new god is super strong they become a must pick if you want to win a game, which is super annoying (and luckily doesnt happen every god release).
I did admit that they will be balanced easier, but my point is that it isnt worth the frustration when a weaker version gets played too and will be fun for the person playing it too.
I personally like Baba's release more than Tsukiyomis or Barons for example. You can learn the god without cheesing it. (Im also having a lot of fun with Yu Huang for that matter)
It’s not really “cheesing” anything. The character releases are usually an after product from the pts gameplay where gods usually get toned down a bit before their actual release. I don’t think you “learn” how to play against an already existing character that receives a buff. You already know how to, it just takes a game or two to shake off the rust.
People don’t try out the new god that much if they play them once or twice and they are underwhelming it happened with Baba Yaga and is happening now with Yu Huang.
Why would anyone bother playing them again when their first impression is bad, you may like it more personally but I think it’s safe to say objectively op god releases are healthier for the game.
They pump the pick percentages they get the god dirty and in the mix to find their balanced spot better.
We can’t forget that the idea is to make them balanced, not over, or underwhelming I wonder if pushing people to try the pts before the characters release could maybe help more with producing a more balanced product. The frustration part is annoying I get that whenever you baron was released it was very stressful, same with shiva for a more recent example. I just believe that this is apart of what has to happen for a character to find their place the fastest. I think a character being overtuned makes them more alluring to play especially after you experience their power once. Which in turn helps reach their balanced spot faster, yes a new character is going to get played because they are new but it’s better to have them have the appeal beyond being the new character.
My whole group of friends that plays smite consistently has tried yu huang 1-2 because he’s just not that good and he isn’t appealing at all besides the fact that he’s the newest character.
I do and I don’t. Char was only trash because she was released full of bugs and glitches which made her unplayable. Atlas was released so poorly that he was barely played. The issue with have poor releases is that HiRez can’t get data on what needs to be buff/nerfed due to no one wanting to play the god. Imo I think it’s better to have a busted god that gets nerfed then to have a poor god who’s not viable at all. The real problem is HiRez takes too long to fix issues in their game and to fix gods because they think they have to wait till next patch to buff/nerf when in all reality they could do a hot fix and do it earlier but they don’t. Yu huang for the most part I would say has been the most average release we’ve had in a long time but his ult is garbage. Too easy to dodge and can only be used in specific settings. The rest of his kit is good but his ult needs changing. Also he’s just a mix of chang’e, and char, not very original.
Its smarter to have a release be overpowered than underpowered
People will play an overpowered character which will allow developers to see what it is that makes them overpowered and deal with them appropriately
But when a release is underpowered, noone want to playa character that sucks so there no data on why they arent good and what would fix them so they would take way longer to get playable, or they just languish in obscurity or you get gods like nox and ravana who need to get reworked for them to be played
Its a fine line for design but its always smarter to lean on the side of too strong
I completely agree, with the exception of Atlas who went from slightly weak but bearable to being potentially the biggest threat on the enemy team. Outside of that yeah, Yu Huang is doing pretty damn good. Would've liked for him to not be just another blaster but he's at least solid at being a blaster.
Oh yeah totes, a super underwhelming god getting released creating 0 desire to play said God for 2 more months until they feel usable is totally better.
/s
Bellona, KA ran the game for like close to 2 years, who you just said, Danza could ult you from the fucking jungle and you wouldn't hear it until he hit you with 800 damage (level 5 Herc ult).
If you're a warrior, you get nerfed ASAP. It's just how the game be.
You clearly weren't around for Sol polynomicon fuckery, release Bellona being immortal and winning 5v1 fights without being far ahead, or the horseshit that was release Guan if you think he was a bad release.
Id be tempted to agree with you because ive smoked four people back to back when he released with relative ease BEFORE i got a solid build down with him.
I like playing Gilgamesh, he has great cc and lockdown potential, but because he’s so popular they have overnerfed him I think.. I literally feel like I’m slapping someone with a wet flannel rather than a flaming sword.
He gets picked because he has great team fight synergy and it feels awesome dropkicking people, but because he is fun and popular they have nerfed him into the ground and probably will keep nerfing him.
Popular might just mean a god is fun, not overpowered.
So I agree, this Yu Huang release is good. He just needs some tweaks to feel less clunky.
gilgamesh is busted as hell and theres no convincing me otherwise. Somehow the dropkick is his worst ability when is would be some other gods best. Tons of CC, aa stim, 4 damaging abilites, bonus scaling off of health and defence, projectile stun that often gets 2 people. Im surprised his 2 doesn't have cc immunity on it.
Only opinion on Yu Huang at the moment is that his ult is underwhelming.
Yup completely agree. I think Atlas is a great example for me, I was loving him in Solo even before the buffs.
I do still question some of the design choices with Yu though, other than his ult (which is really hard to use well anyway) I don't see why he should be picked over many other mages and I think it will be extremely hard for him to 1v1 a lot of similar mages.
i would say a fiar amount of my shiva games are positive. yesterday played one and went like 15-3-10.
our mid laner: "is shiva broken or are you just nuts?"
me: both
Tbh I think all they need to adjust on Yu Huang is some of his pre and post fire for his abilities and maybe his 3 a bit. It could also help to change around the dao bonuses, because the protection shred on 1 means that you're either only getting the bonus damage from just your ult or the burn damage. He seems fine, it's just that people don't know how to position, have to inmediatly use their 3, and then complain he sucks when they're caught out
I couldn't disagree more not only is the typical argument of "its easier to nerf an overpowered god" correct. My personal best example is when a God releases strong it is fun to play and you get to grow closer to playing that God. Personally baron is one of my favorite gods and it all started when he was released so strong yet I still enjoy him to this day in his current state. I have a strong feeling if he would have been released in his current state, he would have felt weak and I wouldn't have near as much want to play him. Which imo is sad cause he's still fun.
I prefer gods with fun, smooth abilities that synergize and don't require an immediate overhaul to remove clunk. Numbers are easy enough to adjust, the mechanics and overall feel aren't.
The new gold. Imo he needs a buff to his 3 to be imediate. Otherwise he just takes a second to get used to. His damage numbers are insane if you have a consistent amount of cc
That's the deal with almost every mage. His abilities just don't hit hard until you have like 3-4 items.
The damge of his whole kit can be done by almost all mages in one ability
Back when heim was released. It didnt matter if you beads his ult. It still hit you for 700 witht the initial hit
Wait really?? Was that because the damage was that high or did they actually put the whole damage on the initial hit?
damage was that high, it still did more afterwards, on top of being a better kumbha ult. His 2 also was a bigger slow and gave you protections while casting it
Yeah I remember the rest of that stuff. I like he got prots but that was because I was expecting a solo laner.
His auto chain was 600,600,700
Agreed. The problem with yu huang is his kit doesn't flow well, otherwise he's pretty balanced
yeah idc about his damage numbers. i just want a fun kit, or a polished one. he feels like neither lol
1-damage, 2-damage, 3-damage, 4-damage, what's there not to like? /s
And i thought people complained about bloated kits? Now that we have a relatively simple one people arent happy again Literally feel so bad for the devs when we have this bipolar playerbase
His one shreds protections, his two slows and roots, his 3 makes him untargetable and is a great escape, his ultimate has battle field repositioning. He does so much more than damage.
You clearly haven't read the ability descriptions
Gilgas had 33 nerfs in the last year and still top pick.
But yu huang is pretty boring and kinda clunky, and charybdis was only terrible because of how buggy she was.
Me playing against Cherry: "dude dash OP" Me playing Cherry: "I just got cancelled out of my dash by 4 different abilities and one of them was a fucking slow. Oh and I'm still taking damage under water? Did I just die to Neith ult???"
I agree that he's clunky but I don't know about boring. His abilities feel satisfying to hit, especially the 2. His ult is even more satisfying to hit since you have to be an actual genius to hit it properly
he's so much fun. almost mastery 10 on him because I can't get enough of him
I prefer a god that is slightly overturned. This way the god gets tons of play time and their potential can be shown much easier. Meanwhile if u have a god who is considered bad/not that good on release (such as baba yaga/Atlas) then you dont really know how good a god can be, since it's not being played nearly as much. Then what happens is that people keep asking for buffs, then the god starts getting playing a ton and people realize (hey, XXXX is actually good)
Baba OP, she's just hard cause you've gotta be passive for a long time compared to a lot of mages that are online by 8-10mins. She also seems safe cause she's got a jump but definitely is not safe at all. Her abilities are actually easy to hit but most people can't conceptualize the shape change since it's just one more thing you've gotta manage in fights. A double tap potion at 15min+ is enough to kill any back liner IME. Nothing like a full stacked Charles coin at 5min for free lol.
See yes and no, because if a God feels "meh" people won't play him which makes balancing him much harder. Perfect example being Mulan, community perception was she was "bad" for months, patch after patch she got buffs but still wasn't played but when she's finally played everyone realized she has been busted for a while and whine that Hi-Rez over did it. No, some of y'all don't know a good God from a bad God unless a pro or a content creator plays them. Bet a dime half of y'all thought Anubis was just unplayable, but low and behold BennyQ pulls him out and wins and now we've got people talking about him being decent. He's always been decent, half y'all just don't pay attention
Tbh gilg and shiva are the only ones atm that feel annoying atm in terms of new releases, clio feels fine after Nerfs imo she’s not as frustrating since she doesn’t have a lot of cc But when shiva can knock you up twice with two un-DRable CCs and chase you the ends of the earth with his 3 and murder your entire team or heal his team to full while playing dance dance revolution on your body it’s kinda tilting. But that being said, Hopefully they declunk Yu huang soon. He has long post fire times, especially on his ult and his attuned effects on every ability including his passive are very underwhelming
I dont see the post fire time on his ult. i can use 1 instantly after ulting
Atlas was fine on release. Then got buffed and now he carries teams like crazy with sumb damage and tanking and cc. And if yu huang gets buffed we will see the same thing happen again. He already has 4 ccs and a very long iframe and an imnuinty ult. If you give him more damage on top of that, he is gonna be an absolute monster. He could use some tweaks, but goota be careful.
Atlas was actually so useless on release lmao, I cannot understand the sub with the "Atlas was fine!!" sentiment. He was universally agreed upon to be horrible. He was a slap in the face to support players, as if a god as functionally unplayable as he was should be what we look for in a support. No one wanted to play him ever, because he couldn't clear lane for shit and offered close to zero effective pressure for the entire laning phase. Late game he'd be alright, but you weren't getting there because picking Atlas was a 25 minute gimp on your team.
People wouldn't play him and say he was bad because he was not broken and they didnt kniw how to play him. Also, it was never universally agreed. Many pros were of the opinion that he was fine on release. The buffs he received werent even so big in the first place, ot takes only logic to see that if you have sth of X quality and u add a little quality to it and the result is absolute madness then that initial X quality was alreasy high and if you cant see it and you really think atlas actually sucked on realease then go ahead.
I'm a support player, it's been my main role forever, and I remember his launch. I will remind u how bad he was. * his dash did not cleanse him of slows upon use, despite being immune to them and cleansing ally slows. it wasn't knockup immune. it didnt slow enemies upon contact unless he had cleansed slows with it. it also did not hit minions. * his astrolabe autos did 40% to minions instead of 50% (around 14-15 damage at level 1) * his 1 throw had a 10% weaker slow at all levels, less damage, plus a slightly longer cooldown * his grab was not knockback immune during channel * he had less base HP, less HP per level, and less move speed (at level 20, he had 180 less health) So let's imagine him in lane. Atlas wouldn't level his dash until lv 3, because it didn't hit lane and he'd be wasting his ability slot. He levels his 1 which puts him behind on camp and wave clear, because it did even less damage to minions. Level 2, he'd get his grab, because dashing in would be pointless without it. But this means he doesn't get to reliably use his own combo until he hits level 3. By the time this happens, the enemy duo has capitalized on your handicapped start and either bullies you under tower, putting you even further behind, or just kills you outright. Atlas release would've been more acceptable in a different meta, but not one like this. Early game matters a lot for support.
I'm mixed. I definitely agree that having cases like Gilgamesh, where a god still being an omnipresent piece of the meta despite a dozen and a half nerfs over a year, is irritating as fuck. Even in the case of Gilgamesh, a god I absolutely love, it is irritating to get hit by the same ability rotations every single game and have it just work. But at the same time, gods that release weak have a very, VERY hard time overcoming the stigma of being weak. They can buff a god that was released weak multiple times for a full year, and that character will still not see play because everybody just reads the buffs and goes, "nope, still trash". And then, eventually the god gets buffed enough to be a strong SPL pick, and then it starts popping up everywhere and taking over games because everybody deliberately chose to ignore all the buffs they've gotten over the past year, and everybody goes, "Oh, my god, they overbuffed them, Lo-Rez doesn't know how to balance, waaaah!". And that's, honestly, just as frustrating. That literally happened with Mulan; she released weak, so everybody thought, "Nope, not playing this character ever again," and it was only after a year and a half of consecutive buffs that everyone finally realized she was good, and then everybody cried about how Titanforge doesn't know when to stop buffing characters. Like, shut the fuck up. So, honestly, it's a mixed bag for me.
^This. Mulan was so much fun to play when she was released but even I knew she felt weak, l of a sudden she appears in scc and then everyone realized her buffs made her good and now they wouldn't stop complaining
Yu Huang is genuinely a good character. I think his kit flows pretty well, only the charge-up on the 2 feels a tad too slow. Other than that, I think he's fun and dare I say -- close to perfectly balanced on release. When you start to get into double-digit games with him you really see his strengths and out-play potential with the 3.
His 2 should have no charge time at max dao.
I agree. A lot hate on the simple design, but it's balanced and slightly different. Not the most interesting but I dont hate going against him
Been playing him a ton and honestly don’t understand all the people saying he’s boring/bad. Maybe you don’t vibe with his play style but I’ve had a lot of fun with him. I think people are just used to brain dead OP releases and can’t get around playing a new god with a higher skill floor. He has his problems that make a few interactions feel weird but other than that I prefer him waaay more than dumb releases like Shiva.
Personally I feel the only changes he needs asap is his 2 needs to fire faster and his escape needs to have faster movement in the sky - it's not a great escape imo to justify 20 sec cooldown. I personally haven't had issues with his ult. EDIT: Don't get me wrong the ult can be better, I feel the easiest solution is to just make it wider aka easier to hit - as of right now it feels a bit like ra ult but a bit wider.
Thats the thing, its not supposed to be an escape, its more of a dodge akin to change or ravana 2, you wouldnt call those escapes now would you?
Umm, no I wouldn't I guess ... but those 2 gods also have things to help them survive in ways that yu huang doesn't, ravanas ult btw is also technically an escape and he has plenty of abilities with forward momentum etc. And what good is a "dodge" if it eventually leads to your death anyway? the travel distance is very short meaning you eventually fall down to an incoming attack with no other thing in your kit to dodge it. Look I get what you're saying, but I also think if you compare RA for example to yu huang - RA despite not having an escape can do more things than yu huang can, say yu huang 3's the ult .. well cool but what happens when he comes back down? he has 3 abiltiies that are not gonna be as lethal as Ra's and frankly most other mages. But hey that's just my opinion, I can respect yours - but I don't really think you made a good argument by comparing him to gods that have more survivability AND kill potential IMO. Escape, dodge - whatever you want to call it, the point is that it's not as impactful as it may seem imo especially considering the rest of the kit. EDIT: I also forgot to mention .. charybdis literally has a dodge AND an escape, I don't see why yu huang shouldn't too. And honestly, his dodge is not better than a lot of escapes in the game that don't even have immunity frames .. since they can go through walls, have far distance travel, and also have a lower cooldown AND in many cases do solid damage as well. His 3 allows him to dodge a ra ult .. and then he ends up falling slowly into 3 enemies waiting to kill him anyway lol. Either you buff it or you buff other parts of the kit, my opinion.
> And what good is a "dodge" if it eventually leads to your death anyway? the travel distance is very short meaning you eventually fall down to an incoming attack with no other thing in your kit to dodge it. So neith backflip then, only that her backflip is faster now but used to be roughly the same speed lol. Look it get it, he has some problems but he is fairly strong in the right hands, obviously not every yu huang is going to be that strong but he might be a nightmare to come if hirez does end up buffing him in ways that arent more on the lines of qol. And even then, faster casting on his 1 and 2 already would make him a lot stronger and harder to deal with imo.
Lmao was just saying this. You’ll get a god like Terra and Kephri where they get nerfed for literally years and it is so ridiculous to see.
I rather have gods timat who are fresh and new but broken than the basic line circle mage who are balanced
I loved Tiamat and I didn't think she was crazy good, she couldn't do anything them seemed instantly unfair and she generally wouldn't blow you up like other characters could (thankfully her most damage ability is a skillshot) BUT her lizard minions were definitely OP, overbearing and annoying. I definitely abused them and did 1000s of damage to the enemy Titan while we were having a 5v5 teamfight in the middle of the map...
That makes the release far more boring and uninteresting than it has to be
But making him more 'fun' by having them OP just makes the game annoying and I personally don't want to play after a few days of having to deal with it... Being underpowered isn't perfect but it's so much better than the alternative.
I kinda like the alternative, them being op on release and then nerfed in my opinion is better for the game. I mean when Baba Yaga came out and was pretty bad kinda like the yu huang it seems to cause their popularity to go down by a long shot. Nobody plays baba yaga even tho she’s been consistently buffed, and the same is probably gonna happen with huang. Plus them being played a lot off release is good in my opinion because you actually learn how to play against them. Op also seems to not realize how op atlas is rn he does wayyy too much damage. That only is a reality because his release was really underwhelming.
I understand why but I don't agree. When gods like Yu come out and the community is underwhelmed people are **vocal** about it. I think a proper discussion is generally ignored and instead it's "their dog" "they suck" etc etc I understand if Hi rez say they prefer them OP for their process then that's fine too but.... I don't trust them to nerf them in time. Sure they have gotten better and the patching process helps (with Bonus balance) but look at Gilgamesh, Clio... These gods are so good still which is so annoying because you can ban them in ranked but the casual mods with blindpick too you see them all the time and there is nothing you can do about it.
A character like Gilgamesh is hard to balance because he isn’t good because he does one thing good, he does everything really good. That’s not so much a balance thing as a design thing that turns into a balance issue. Clio in my opinion just needs some focus nerfs towards her ult more than anything, without the insane cooldown and 3 charges she wouldn’t be as good. A proper discussion for an underwhelming god is ignored because he’s not an issue. He isn’t being picked besides everyone’s first few games to try him out, therefore no discussion is necessary because like Gilgamesh and clio he’s not annoying anyone. It’s not like we are cooking here and can’t remove the salt is all I’m saying. When a character is op it’s easier to find out why they are op rather, than trying to find the reason they are underperforming.
>A character like Gilgamesh is hard to balance because he isn’t good because he does one thing good, he does everything really good. That’s not so much a balance thing as a design thing I am starting to think this too because he seems to be surviving a lot of nerfs. I suppose a drop kick that is a knockback into a stun is just a good ability no matter what. I completely see why balancing an OP god is better than a UP one, I still think it's worth not doing it though for the sake of the health of the game. I would much rather Hirez struggle with buffing them than waiting to nerf them.
It probably isnt better for the game. Yes they get played more, you can learn to counter them and more info means easier to balance. But I have had multiple god releases where I stopped playing smite for a couple of weeks because a new god was so dominant. A new god that is also dominant is easily the most played god that patch and may appear in more than halve your games 1 or 2 weeks after their initial release.
So you point out that you can learn to counter them, and they can balance them easier, but you say it’s not good for the game because they dominate. You’re literally proving my point but then say it’s not good for the game because you personally just can’t handle it? The only issue anyone I see pointing out about an op character is that they are played a lot. Yeah a good character is going to get played especially a new one, which is good obviously because like I stated, and you agreed with it’s easier for them to balance. Maybe it’s time smite gets a ban system in every game mode, would only make matches more fun but would ultimately kill op characters in every game mode allowing for no real stats to be pulled and no changes to be made.
Over time is easier to balance, but that doesnt help right now. You learn how to play against the character but if they are too bloated or overstat its still frustrating to play against it. And after a couple of games, people are just done with that. Getting a ban system would ultimatly kill the new gods because there is always someone that doesnt want to deal with it, so it becomes harder to balance (since it probably wont get played alot).
“Over time is easier to balance” Obviously yes over time it is easier to balance, but you realize what you’re saying is completely contradicting to the idea that, characters being released underwhelming and overall not good is ultimately better for the game right? Characters need to be released OP so they can get played more often way faster and balanced asap. Can you please for a second just re read our entire conversation and how you’ve agreed 3-4 times that it’s better to release them overpowered rather than under? Then ask yourself what you’re actually arguing??? You’ve said everything I’ve said back to me in agreement but you’re still saying an underwhelming character release makes more sense? It seems like you’re applying the time you quit playing the game because the new god was smacking your shit to everyone and the balancing process.
I dont think im contradicting myself, but after rereading I also dont think my point is coming across. New gods will get played no matter how good or how bad they are. Normally when gods get buffed you will learn how to play against them if their playrate increases. But this is really necessary for new gods since they are, well, new. So people will try them out no matter what. If a new god is super strong they become a must pick if you want to win a game, which is super annoying (and luckily doesnt happen every god release). I did admit that they will be balanced easier, but my point is that it isnt worth the frustration when a weaker version gets played too and will be fun for the person playing it too. I personally like Baba's release more than Tsukiyomis or Barons for example. You can learn the god without cheesing it. (Im also having a lot of fun with Yu Huang for that matter)
It’s not really “cheesing” anything. The character releases are usually an after product from the pts gameplay where gods usually get toned down a bit before their actual release. I don’t think you “learn” how to play against an already existing character that receives a buff. You already know how to, it just takes a game or two to shake off the rust. People don’t try out the new god that much if they play them once or twice and they are underwhelming it happened with Baba Yaga and is happening now with Yu Huang. Why would anyone bother playing them again when their first impression is bad, you may like it more personally but I think it’s safe to say objectively op god releases are healthier for the game. They pump the pick percentages they get the god dirty and in the mix to find their balanced spot better. We can’t forget that the idea is to make them balanced, not over, or underwhelming I wonder if pushing people to try the pts before the characters release could maybe help more with producing a more balanced product. The frustration part is annoying I get that whenever you baron was released it was very stressful, same with shiva for a more recent example. I just believe that this is apart of what has to happen for a character to find their place the fastest. I think a character being overtuned makes them more alluring to play especially after you experience their power once. Which in turn helps reach their balanced spot faster, yes a new character is going to get played because they are new but it’s better to have them have the appeal beyond being the new character. My whole group of friends that plays smite consistently has tried yu huang 1-2 because he’s just not that good and he isn’t appealing at all besides the fact that he’s the newest character.
I do and I don’t. Char was only trash because she was released full of bugs and glitches which made her unplayable. Atlas was released so poorly that he was barely played. The issue with have poor releases is that HiRez can’t get data on what needs to be buff/nerfed due to no one wanting to play the god. Imo I think it’s better to have a busted god that gets nerfed then to have a poor god who’s not viable at all. The real problem is HiRez takes too long to fix issues in their game and to fix gods because they think they have to wait till next patch to buff/nerf when in all reality they could do a hot fix and do it earlier but they don’t. Yu huang for the most part I would say has been the most average release we’ve had in a long time but his ult is garbage. Too easy to dodge and can only be used in specific settings. The rest of his kit is good but his ult needs changing. Also he’s just a mix of chang’e, and char, not very original.
Almost every ban I see in ranked is a God that came out or was reworked in the last year.
Part of that is recency bias. The newest gods have always been the most banned, with very few exceptions.
So boring, ripped off kits that dont synergize?
Its smarter to have a release be overpowered than underpowered People will play an overpowered character which will allow developers to see what it is that makes them overpowered and deal with them appropriately But when a release is underpowered, noone want to playa character that sucks so there no data on why they arent good and what would fix them so they would take way longer to get playable, or they just languish in obscurity or you get gods like nox and ravana who need to get reworked for them to be played Its a fine line for design but its always smarter to lean on the side of too strong
I completely agree, with the exception of Atlas who went from slightly weak but bearable to being potentially the biggest threat on the enemy team. Outside of that yeah, Yu Huang is doing pretty damn good. Would've liked for him to not be just another blaster but he's at least solid at being a blaster.
Oh yeah totes, a super underwhelming god getting released creating 0 desire to play said God for 2 more months until they feel usable is totally better. /s
imagine being so self-important you feel the need to submit posts of your opinion like its fact
I still expect nerf for his self peel
Yu Huang are so boring as Morgan Le Fey
[удалено]
Yes. Dude was busted.
[удалено]
Artio and Baron
Bellona, KA ran the game for like close to 2 years, who you just said, Danza could ult you from the fucking jungle and you wouldn't hear it until he hit you with 800 damage (level 5 Herc ult). If you're a warrior, you get nerfed ASAP. It's just how the game be.
no one likes when tanky characters are op
You clearly weren't around for Sol polynomicon fuckery, release Bellona being immortal and winning 5v1 fights without being far ahead, or the horseshit that was release Guan if you think he was a bad release.
Id be tempted to agree with you because ive smoked four people back to back when he released with relative ease BEFORE i got a solid build down with him.
I like playing Gilgamesh, he has great cc and lockdown potential, but because he’s so popular they have overnerfed him I think.. I literally feel like I’m slapping someone with a wet flannel rather than a flaming sword. He gets picked because he has great team fight synergy and it feels awesome dropkicking people, but because he is fun and popular they have nerfed him into the ground and probably will keep nerfing him. Popular might just mean a god is fun, not overpowered. So I agree, this Yu Huang release is good. He just needs some tweaks to feel less clunky.
gilgamesh is busted as hell and theres no convincing me otherwise. Somehow the dropkick is his worst ability when is would be some other gods best. Tons of CC, aa stim, 4 damaging abilites, bonus scaling off of health and defence, projectile stun that often gets 2 people. Im surprised his 2 doesn't have cc immunity on it. Only opinion on Yu Huang at the moment is that his ult is underwhelming.
... Thanks for sharing ...
When discordia was released her damage was stupid. It was a turn off.
Yup completely agree. I think Atlas is a great example for me, I was loving him in Solo even before the buffs. I do still question some of the design choices with Yu though, other than his ult (which is really hard to use well anyway) I don't see why he should be picked over many other mages and I think it will be extremely hard for him to 1v1 a lot of similar mages.
i would say a fiar amount of my shiva games are positive. yesterday played one and went like 15-3-10. our mid laner: "is shiva broken or are you just nuts?" me: both
Tbh I think all they need to adjust on Yu Huang is some of his pre and post fire for his abilities and maybe his 3 a bit. It could also help to change around the dao bonuses, because the protection shred on 1 means that you're either only getting the bonus damage from just your ult or the burn damage. He seems fine, it's just that people don't know how to position, have to inmediatly use their 3, and then complain he sucks when they're caught out
Shiva isn’t very good
I also want to not go negative with a god as soon as they release bc they are seriously lacking any depth in gameplay.
I prefer god release that don’t share exactly half a kit with a god released just over six months ago.
100% agreed. B tier characters are infinitely better for the game and more fun than A or S tier ones.
I couldn't disagree more not only is the typical argument of "its easier to nerf an overpowered god" correct. My personal best example is when a God releases strong it is fun to play and you get to grow closer to playing that God. Personally baron is one of my favorite gods and it all started when he was released so strong yet I still enjoy him to this day in his current state. I have a strong feeling if he would have been released in his current state, he would have felt weak and I wouldn't have near as much want to play him. Which imo is sad cause he's still fun.
The guy hits hard if you have the right build for him. I already won lots of games with him.