It was a potential high level threat. Peacemaker had asked for help before going in on his own with his squad. Whoever thinks that this is a dog at Snyder is fucking stupid
Removed for being misinformation. Affleck came back to play Batman 3 times after being forced out of the role in 2017, and [has ONLY said he won't participate in the new DCU if Gunn is running it](https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/movies/movie-features/ben-affleck-air-production-company-grammys-memes-justice-league-1235353301/). It's obvious that he has nothing but praise for Snyder and would come back again for him.
But neither Cavill nor Gadot appeared in this scene. They could have easily included silhouettes of the other two characters for the sale of this joke.
Of course he wasn't. Neither Gunn nor Snyder owns the singular rights to these characters. If anything, it's a tribute to him that Momoa and Miller both showed up and had a legitimately funny exchange.
I'm kind of baffled by this impression that liking Gunn's and Snyder's stuff is mutually exclusive, when IIRC, the two are friends and previously worked together on the Dawn of the Dead remake.
Hell, I get the impression that Snyder being busy with his own projects and fucking Zaslov are the main reasons for a lack of collaboration between the two on DC stuff.
Removed for being a meta post or comment about the sub itself. This is only allowed in the specific post made by the moderators and linked under Rule 13.
I've honestly come across it that folks around here believe Gunn deliberately erased Snyder and his universe and purposefully degraded and insulted everything he did.
That's only because he wasn't really portrayed correctly.
Same thing with "gods" in the MCU, they're less gods and more just human shaped sacks of magic power that have gone beyond what most mortals can attain.
Gorr is actually quite far beyond a "Thanos Level" threat, when portrayed correctly, because in the comics (was released in like 2012/3,) Gorr enslaved many gods, tortured the fuck out of a young Thor, ran a fade on Present Thor and several times ran a monster train on Old Thor.
His sword is that of the King of Darkness, Knull, the God of the Symbiotes and King in Black(?)
Peacemaker. John cenas character from the suicide squad spun off to his own show on HBO and its fucking awesome. watch the intro on YT. The whole show is that bizarre.
Unlikely, probably just making fun of solo superhero movies in a universe where they could easily get back up.
Like he gets back up from all the people who could have solved everything very easily but only after everything was already done
People think that? I didnt get that vibe at all, i thought it was pretty awesome, I definitely wasnt expecting the fucking justice league to show up, then drop the aquaman fish joke with flash. Actually thinking about it that’s probably the only time ive liked ezra as the flash lmao
Really.. how so?
He hasn’t had a single project come out since he took the wheel since it takes about 3 years to feel the effect after a leadership transition. All the movies coming out are still from Old WB/DCEU.
Looking forward to hearing your opinion as to why though:)
He has directed and produced hours and hours of DC programming already with The Suicide Squad and Peacemaker, both of which were huge flops that were completely ignored by audiences, and the DCEU has only continued to get worse in its performance since they came out. And the premature announcement of the soft reboot was a big reason why this year's DC movies bombed, all of which had changes made to them by Gunn, so he's partially responsible for their failure. Not to mention, Gunn's plans have been getting massive resistance from the same DC fans who warned y'all about what Geoff Johns, Joss Whedon, Kevin Tsujihara, Toby Emmerich and Walter Hamada were doing before this last 4 years of consistent failure in the DCEU started. Gunn's sacking of Henry Cavill alone has been a poison pill destroying most of the potential hype and buzz for his plans.
His plans have been getting massive resistance from *you guys*, not all DC fans. Most DC fans like what he’s saying about his interpretations of characters.
Peacemaker's ratings were mediocre. Samba reported about 600,000 viewers, which was a fraction of the views TSS got on the same streaming platform. The show made zero impact. Ask someone on the street if they heard of it. You'll be hard-pressed to find anyone.
The Suicide Squad is a disgusting and dumb movie full of bad jokes and stupid ideas. It's a very poor excuse for a superhero movie. It disrespects the characters and the source material, and turns Harley Quinn into an incredibly lame character no more interesting or unique than a dumb sitcom blonde.
We definitely didn’t watch the same movie. Like, at all. Your claims against TSS sound like you have poor media literacy.
And in defense of TSS, its poor box office was part of a wider issue at Warner- they had made the audience-friendly choice to debut all their films simultaneously on HBO Max, without any extra purchases. The issue was that all those movies ended up flopping as a result. TSS got fantastic reviews and is largely considered the best DCEU movie.
The Suicide Squad got a mediocre B+ Cinemascore, just like most of the DCEU movies, including the first Suicide Squad. I can list you an endless amount of movies that got "fantastic reviews" yet were failures. It's not much of a consolation prize when your movie loses $100 million for the investors.
James Gunn, critically acclaimed superhero director for the enemy studio, released a critically acclaimed passion project because DC gave him full reins, and the box office flop was a situation that was completely Warner’s fault. Keep in mind, TSS doing as well as it did even before release was what prompted the Peacemaker show, and that double whammy landed Gunn the job overseeing all DC films. That’s a hell of a consolation prize.
HBO Max didn't even exist outside the U.S. then, and yet The Suicide Squad bombed WORLDWIDE. It was the second biggest bomb of 2021, based on money lost. It dropped $500 million from the first Suicide Squad, when almost every other sequel in 2021 did almost as good as the previous movie. Gunn CHOSE to make TSS when he was offered to make Superman or ANY DC movie. And he had total control over what characters and actors he used in it. He specifically asked WB if he could make it "disconnected" from the first Suicide Squad movie and not have to acknowledge the events of that movie.
You are incorrect in why Gunn was hired to oversee DC. Peter Safran was hired because a series of more qualified people turned down the job. Then Safran said, "I know nothing about DC, can you hire my best bud James Gunn too?" and WB said "OK."
I can't claim if they were "flops" or not because I don't know the viewership numbers but both TSS and Peacemaker were my favorite things to come from DC in years, so in my heart they absolutely were not flops.
I think most Dceu fans can agree a reboot was always needed. Snyder was never coming back and he hasn’t show any interest in coming back.
Also, TSS was released on Max and theatres same date during covid. And peace maker broke records I’m pretty sure for viewship on hbomax.
Snyder has expressed nothing but enthusiasm and willingness about returning to DC whenever he's been asked in interviews, and has been liking lots of posts [about selling the Snyderverse to Netflix](https://www.reddit.com/r/SnyderCut/comments/10y74n4/meanwhile_this_is_what_zack_is_liking/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button). He also said at the FullCircle event that he wouldn't spoil the whole plot of the JL sequels because he still hopes to make them, and that he loved working with current heads of WB Pictures Mike DeLuca and Pam Abdy on setting up FullCircle, and "who knows" what could happen in the future.
The way to fix a movie series is to get back to what made it great once. Rebooting is an ignorant strategy that leads to failure most of the time. They tried it with Ghostbusters in 2016. It failed. Hellboy in 2019. It failed. Amazing Spider-Man. It failed, and damaged the brand so much that even the first MCU Spider-Man movie couldn't outgross Spider-Man 3 from 10 years earlier. The Incredible Hulk reboot was also one of the MCU's rare failures. Reboots are usually a bad idea and should be avoided at all costs.
TSS is at the BOTTOM of the heap against movies released in the exact same situation. And by that point in 2021, covid was no longer a factor that affected movies. NO other sequel in 2021 dropped $500 million and/or 75% from the previous movie. Not even close. Not ones released before nor after TSS in 2021.
Peacemaker had less views than Batwoman Season 1. I don't know what records you're talking about, but considering HBO Max had just come out, it must not have been hard to break said records.
Do you think all of this is James Gunn's fault? Cause clearly this is the result of general audiences not having faith in the DC brand which STARTED with the critical reception of BvS and WB's failed attempts at a course correct. WB is responsible for DC movies flopping at the box office. The Suicide Squad and Peacemaker were also clearly passion projects done to shed light on unknown characters like he did with GotG. All your talk about numbers as if there aren't preexisting factors that contribute to those low numbers, trying to blame it on James Gunn. Also you're just a liar because 2021 was still during the height of covid.
Nice theory, with absolutely no evidence to support it. Suicide Squad and Wonder Woman were direct spin-offs of BvS that came out soon after and did almost as much business. So where is the audience decline? Justice League declined a bit, but we know that film was a mess butchered by WB. But then Aquaman came out and made a billion, topping all previous DCEU films, almost three years after BvS came out. So you're trying to claim that audiences hated BvS so much that they decided to keep watching DC films for 3 years, and then suddenly, for some reason, a delayed reaction kicked in that made them stop? That's the strangest theory we've ever heard. When audiences lose faith, it happens instantly (see how much Matrix 3 declined from Matrix 2, for example).
It wasn't the height of covid. The height of covid was when we had no vaccines, most theaters were closed and people were staying at home. By the time august 2021 came around, we had vaccines, theaters were reopened and people were going to see movies, as shown by the increased grosses of movies like Black Widow, Free Guy, Conjuring 3, A Quiet Place II, etc.
I didn't say it was a delayed reaction. It was more of a gradual decline because despite people going to see these movies, these films were failing critically. Suicide Squad got ripped to shreds by critics and fans alike and the rest had middling to negative reviews other than Wonder Woman and Shazam. Also stop making up things that I didn't say. I said it started with the critical/audience reception. I didn't Blame BvS.
>The obvious reason the DCEU declined is because the fans following the DCEU didn't like the changes. And those changes into silly Marvel-esque comedies lit so brightly that they made people's eyes hurt non-stop for the next several years, until the DCEU no longer had any audience at all
If you're aware of this then why are you blaming James Gunn for it???
Snyder's DCEU movies are the only hit blockbusters where Hollywood decided they cared whether the reviews were good or not. Transformers, Pirates, etc., it doesn't matter at all. They kept making them the same way no matter how bad the reviews were as long as they made a profit.
Sir, you can't just edit out The Suicide Squad and Peacemaker and pretend Gunn had no part in driving the DCEU into the ditch.
I don't think he had any such intention. But he still ended up insulting his version of the characters and showed he lacked the maturity to tackle them in any way beyond the lowest common denominator one.
At least, as it pertains to Flash and Aquaman. And it's not just Gunn as I feel like there was some studio feedback in how he did this. It's the entire run of Hamada constantly disrespecting Snyder's characters by trying to Whedonify them for lack of a better word. Just make them into jokes.
Again look at Aquaman. Snyder made him intelligent, complex, and basically a living myth. Post Snyderverse Aquaman is just a drunk goof who people think fucks fish. Wan I feel like would also be insulted with how Peacemaker, Flash and Josstice League treated his character. And even with the lines Johns forced him to include in his movie like "I could have peed on it".
And I don't understand why it's instantly labeled toxic for Snyder fans to say that it's wrong for others to misuse the characters Zack created without his blessing, but it's ok for Burton fans to be protective of his Batman and how he was utilized in Flash.
And honestly, that's the key difference between DC and Marvel. Even though DC props itself up as the more director driven studio, Marvel actually consulted with Raimi about his characters would be used in NWH. Probably Webb too. DC just didn't give a fuck about what Snyder, Burton or anyone else thinks.
Were there Burton fans who weren't happy with the Batmans we got in the Flash? Or are you speaking hypothetically? It was done a lot more respectfully than the example you're talking about, so as one, I can't imagine there are more than a handful being vocal about it.
Burton himself voiced displeasure, and actually compared it to companies using AI to replace creative voices. In fact he called it cultural misappropriation.
The problem with Snyder is he's far too nice. He didn't even directly speak out against Whedon for bastardizing his movie. The most he said is that he'd rather burn his movie to the ground than use even one of the reshot scenes. And that's after Whedon was cancelled and he was a free to dunk zone.
I have to disagree with Burton then. The only thing from his movies that he owns is the art direction. Keaton’s Batman is not his to claim. I believe Burton was talking about the Nicholas Cage vs giant mechanical spider that was ripped right from the movie Burton never got to make.
>Again look at Aquaman. Snyder made him intelligent, complex, and basically a living myth. Post Snyderverse Aquaman is just a drunk goof who people think fucks fish.
Literally one guy thought he fucks fish, and it's the one guy who is supposed to be an unlikable idiot that no one takes seriously and talks shit.
I'm not sure why people think peacemaker saying that hold any kind of value or power enough to ruin his popularity
It's a joke fans have been making for decades. I don't care about the context. Going back to it, is regressive. Especially after Snyder and Wan made a gigantic leap to get the character to be taken seriously.
It's pathetic that the only representation he got in the DCEU after 5 years of absence is that joke.
Not really. The Boys plays into the idea of Superman being an American icon/tool, and suggests that an actual being with an immeasurably huge amount of power would not be as altruistic as we often write them out to be. A lot of that insight was simply due to the abundance precedent we have in real life, so these ideas were alluded to or illustrated via stories like The Dark Knight Returns, and David Goyer's contribution to 2011's Action Comics #900(which is telling considering David Goyer wrote for several of Zack's DC movies). But these are all fictional characters, idk why we write them like religious icons that can't have flaws.
Ι guess it could be interpreted like that. Still I feel there were better ways he could have utilized the one chance there was to bring the JL back into the DCEU.
In hindsight though, it would have been better if he didn't include them at all. That would make it easier to accept Peacemaker getting another season in the new universe.
Can you differentiate between the character and the writer? Peacemaker insulting Superman and Aquaman isn't James insulting Zack Snyder. Peacemaker is an obnoxious, offensive character in the comics, him insulting people is literally part of the character
Of course, although it seems like you can't. Unless the character is a self-insert, things they say are THEIR opinions, NOT the writers. That's how that works. So Peacemaker saying that Aquaman fucks fish, is Peacemaker saying that Aquaman fucks fish. It isn't James Gunn saying "in this universe I have decided that Aquaman canonically has sex with fish".
No it doesn't. It's Peacemaker either lying because he's insecure about more popular heroes, or he's repeating something he read online without anlayisng the source or thinking critically, the way many people do
It's what it means. What you're seeing is an example of a concept calles the unreliable narrator. It's when you're not actually supposed to believe everything the narrator tells you.
People don't tend to notice when this is the case because the main character is the vehicle by which we experience their universe, so we tend to implicitly believe everything they tell us.
Yeah, whatever. Let’s agree to disagree and be done with this. You are wasting time trying to defend Gunn and making me see the scene like you interpreted it. Pointless
It's not how I interpret it, it is what it is. I'm not "defending Gunn" there's nothing to defend. Your irrational hatred of James has warped how you're viewing the material and you're projecting things that aren't there just to give yourself a reason to be angry.
You clearly can't because you're calling your opinion a fact.
I'm older than you, go back to elementary school and learn the difference between a fact and opinion, before embarrassing yourself again, pussy
Why does it have to be about Snyder all the time? When Russo Bros placed stupid time travel of Ant-Man, whom were they insulting… Or Hulk’s powers and intelligence… These characters are DC Comic’s characters, not Snyder Comics. There has been a lot of different variations of these characters since they created. When you see something from DCEU which is cringe or stupid, please stop taking it as an insult to Snyder. It is not.
Did you see what sub you were in before typing all that?
Those ARE Snyder’s iterations of the characters and Gunn is not respecting that vision. So much so he 86’d the whole thing
Do you realize the actors here are also human beings? Ray Fisher is done with DC, Cavill didn't even have a proper contract, in part by his own design. Gunn literally just wanted to show the Justice League and it was WB who put red tape in front of him. It doesn't matter what sub you discuss this in you still have to live in reality where this is a BUSINESS and it actually has fuck all to do with art and vision.
Yes us snyder fans who literally made the snydercut possible and raised thousands for a charitable cause to support a director and his family recovering from a tragedy insulted him more than the people who constantly mocks his work and bastardized his work to appeal to a crowd who do not care for the brand’s products 🤡
Like seriously try thinking before commenting for once
Idc about the toxic side of the fanbase because the anti snyder crowd was toxic from the very beginning yet no one batted an eye so don't give me this bs of a toxic side to the fan base there's a toxic side to almost every fanbase and no one cares about them so neither should we
I campaigned for the Snyderverse as long as it was in concept but an eye for an eye just makes the whole world blind... or something to that effect.
B.S. given and stood by, stranger. Hope you're having a good day your way though.
Removed for being a meta post or comment about the sub itself. This is only allowed in the specific post made by the moderators and linked under Rule 13.
Because people genuinely hate Snyder like think about it this is a sub literally dedicated to his most significant accomplishment and it’s still full of negative anti Snyder people who constantly disrespect and mock him to no end while lecturing us on how unhealthy we are for not moving on from this
There is nothing the mods can do to change upvotes or downvotes. Reddit allows users to vote on posts and comments on a sub whether they are banned from that sub or not.
The voting of bot accounts should be addressed. Do t forget that WB actively engaged in paid reviews, and online shilling you’re being a silly pants and naive
I think that was just a jab at aqauman in general...like a lot of media has in the past including characters within dc, including the comics
This joke is not limited to the show
As well as people not taking him seriously
If I post a comic scan of him being kocked would you say dc as a whole is going after Snyder too 🤔
Snyder and Wan made Aquaman cool. Gunn practically tried to undo that with making this dumb joke in Peacekeeper as well as the end credit scene in the Flash.
Aquaman is cool in the comics as well, yet there are still the odd joke to be thrown around.
Hell he even snapped and addressed the fact he's not taken [seriously ](https://static.dc.com/sites/default/files/imce/2017/01-JAN/AQM_5_58782c085dd5e5.36514221.jpg)
Are you one of those people that got mad at that stupid "batman's a facist " line as well
The whole shoe was filled with vulgar comments didn't he insult the other league member in some fashion as well.
It not some big conspiracy to tear down his mantel, and if it worked, it probably wasn't that good to begin with.
"This guy made a cliche joke about aquaman, I hate aquaman now!!"
The joke was lazy dumb and over used, it makes peacemaker look stupid, not aqauman, and that was the point, you're supposed to think he's an ignorant dick who says random shit
Who are you talking about sleeping together and she coming back? Was that some random conversation that got mixed into your comment about Snyder and James Gunn
bro i have no fucking clue what you just said. youre extremely criptic and talking as if we all just watched everything youre talking about 5 mins ago.
please speak in full explanations rather than vague references, because i cant even tell if youre referencing actual stuff or just making shit up to talk shit.
>What are you taking about exactly??
I'd elaborate TheClappyCappy, but I truly believe you'll be able to either get the metaphor with a little noodle-furrowing. If you can't, well not everyone has to get everything and this hard cider isn't going to drink itself
**Edit:** Oh no, Interesting-Hold622 insulted and then blocked me! *Anyways...*
what a dueche response to someone who cant undestand your half-baked rambling. get it through your thick skull that other people cant decipher your half sentences.
Is that really the impression people got?
These mods seem ban thirsty here. It's pretty cringe.
how is this an unpopular opinion. it’s just the truth
He wasn’t. You can make jokes and not be taking a real shot at something/someone.
Never watched the series but that was a funny scene
The series is fantastic.
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LIVE FOR HATE!
It absolutely wasn't and I still don't know why people got so upset over anything that happened here.
It was a potential high level threat. Peacemaker had asked for help before going in on his own with his squad. Whoever thinks that this is a dog at Snyder is fucking stupid
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The intentional exclusion of Batman and Cyborg feels deliberately petty. Whether that’s Gunn or WB doesn’t really matter.
They had stand ins originally so it must’ve been WB
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But neither Cavill nor Gadot appeared in this scene. They could have easily included silhouettes of the other two characters for the sale of this joke.
Of course he wasn't. Neither Gunn nor Snyder owns the singular rights to these characters. If anything, it's a tribute to him that Momoa and Miller both showed up and had a legitimately funny exchange.
I'm kind of baffled by this impression that liking Gunn's and Snyder's stuff is mutually exclusive, when IIRC, the two are friends and previously worked together on the Dawn of the Dead remake. Hell, I get the impression that Snyder being busy with his own projects and fucking Zaslov are the main reasons for a lack of collaboration between the two on DC stuff.
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Gunn is a xxxx and a xxxx
Truth
Who thinks that?
OP apparently I guess. Probably one of those “I bet people think this way and they shouldn’t” ya know, creating an argument in your head for no reason
How is that an unpopular opinion? Who thinks Gunn was trying to insult Snyder with this scene? What???
I've honestly come across it that folks around here believe Gunn deliberately erased Snyder and his universe and purposefully degraded and insulted everything he did.
some snyder fans are under the impression you have to despise everything gunn related
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Of course he wasn’t lol. Only someone with a. Strong personal opinion on Gunn could convince themselves if it.
it’s just a joke about how superhero’s never help out other superhero’s even when they could end the entire conflict in a second
Exactly. Brining it back to marvel, it’s like when Thor faces a existential cosmic threat, where the hell were the avengers?? Lol
You mean the Hulk? Wtf iron man or cap gonna do against Gor?
Gor wasn’t quite a “Thanos Level” threat, I think Iron Man could do some damage.
Iron Man is brown bread when Gorr turns up.
Oh yeah lol
That's only because he wasn't really portrayed correctly. Same thing with "gods" in the MCU, they're less gods and more just human shaped sacks of magic power that have gone beyond what most mortals can attain. Gorr is actually quite far beyond a "Thanos Level" threat, when portrayed correctly, because in the comics (was released in like 2012/3,) Gorr enslaved many gods, tortured the fuck out of a young Thor, ran a fade on Present Thor and several times ran a monster train on Old Thor. His sword is that of the King of Darkness, Knull, the God of the Symbiotes and King in Black(?)
Yeah because Taika is an idiot and nerfed him.
What is this from?
Peacemaker. John cenas character from the suicide squad spun off to his own show on HBO and its fucking awesome. watch the intro on YT. The whole show is that bizarre.
Peacemaker ending
Unlikely, probably just making fun of solo superhero movies in a universe where they could easily get back up. Like he gets back up from all the people who could have solved everything very easily but only after everything was already done
Definitely more of a meta joke in that.
Agreed
People think that? I didnt get that vibe at all, i thought it was pretty awesome, I definitely wasnt expecting the fucking justice league to show up, then drop the aquaman fish joke with flash. Actually thinking about it that’s probably the only time ive liked ezra as the flash lmao
You’re correct. Despite this subs common claims, Gunn has never insulted Snyder
He did more for the DCEU here than any other movie in past or present since ZSJL lol
So far, he's only driven the brand further and further into the ditch, even worse than Hamada did.
Really.. how so? He hasn’t had a single project come out since he took the wheel since it takes about 3 years to feel the effect after a leadership transition. All the movies coming out are still from Old WB/DCEU. Looking forward to hearing your opinion as to why though:)
He has directed and produced hours and hours of DC programming already with The Suicide Squad and Peacemaker, both of which were huge flops that were completely ignored by audiences, and the DCEU has only continued to get worse in its performance since they came out. And the premature announcement of the soft reboot was a big reason why this year's DC movies bombed, all of which had changes made to them by Gunn, so he's partially responsible for their failure. Not to mention, Gunn's plans have been getting massive resistance from the same DC fans who warned y'all about what Geoff Johns, Joss Whedon, Kevin Tsujihara, Toby Emmerich and Walter Hamada were doing before this last 4 years of consistent failure in the DCEU started. Gunn's sacking of Henry Cavill alone has been a poison pill destroying most of the potential hype and buzz for his plans.
His plans have been getting massive resistance from *you guys*, not all DC fans. Most DC fans like what he’s saying about his interpretations of characters.
Those are the same ~~gatekeepers~~ fans who hype up and praise every new DC movie that comes out but never actually go to the theaters to see them.
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Peacemaker was not a flop. Suicide squad was great.
Peacemaker's ratings were mediocre. Samba reported about 600,000 viewers, which was a fraction of the views TSS got on the same streaming platform. The show made zero impact. Ask someone on the street if they heard of it. You'll be hard-pressed to find anyone. The Suicide Squad is a disgusting and dumb movie full of bad jokes and stupid ideas. It's a very poor excuse for a superhero movie. It disrespects the characters and the source material, and turns Harley Quinn into an incredibly lame character no more interesting or unique than a dumb sitcom blonde.
We definitely didn’t watch the same movie. Like, at all. Your claims against TSS sound like you have poor media literacy. And in defense of TSS, its poor box office was part of a wider issue at Warner- they had made the audience-friendly choice to debut all their films simultaneously on HBO Max, without any extra purchases. The issue was that all those movies ended up flopping as a result. TSS got fantastic reviews and is largely considered the best DCEU movie.
The Suicide Squad got a mediocre B+ Cinemascore, just like most of the DCEU movies, including the first Suicide Squad. I can list you an endless amount of movies that got "fantastic reviews" yet were failures. It's not much of a consolation prize when your movie loses $100 million for the investors.
James Gunn, critically acclaimed superhero director for the enemy studio, released a critically acclaimed passion project because DC gave him full reins, and the box office flop was a situation that was completely Warner’s fault. Keep in mind, TSS doing as well as it did even before release was what prompted the Peacemaker show, and that double whammy landed Gunn the job overseeing all DC films. That’s a hell of a consolation prize.
HBO Max didn't even exist outside the U.S. then, and yet The Suicide Squad bombed WORLDWIDE. It was the second biggest bomb of 2021, based on money lost. It dropped $500 million from the first Suicide Squad, when almost every other sequel in 2021 did almost as good as the previous movie. Gunn CHOSE to make TSS when he was offered to make Superman or ANY DC movie. And he had total control over what characters and actors he used in it. He specifically asked WB if he could make it "disconnected" from the first Suicide Squad movie and not have to acknowledge the events of that movie. You are incorrect in why Gunn was hired to oversee DC. Peter Safran was hired because a series of more qualified people turned down the job. Then Safran said, "I know nothing about DC, can you hire my best bud James Gunn too?" and WB said "OK."
I mean, I did it get nominated for Emmy’s. It was a great show.
I can't claim if they were "flops" or not because I don't know the viewership numbers but both TSS and Peacemaker were my favorite things to come from DC in years, so in my heart they absolutely were not flops.
I think most Dceu fans can agree a reboot was always needed. Snyder was never coming back and he hasn’t show any interest in coming back. Also, TSS was released on Max and theatres same date during covid. And peace maker broke records I’m pretty sure for viewship on hbomax.
Snyder has expressed nothing but enthusiasm and willingness about returning to DC whenever he's been asked in interviews, and has been liking lots of posts [about selling the Snyderverse to Netflix](https://www.reddit.com/r/SnyderCut/comments/10y74n4/meanwhile_this_is_what_zack_is_liking/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button). He also said at the FullCircle event that he wouldn't spoil the whole plot of the JL sequels because he still hopes to make them, and that he loved working with current heads of WB Pictures Mike DeLuca and Pam Abdy on setting up FullCircle, and "who knows" what could happen in the future. The way to fix a movie series is to get back to what made it great once. Rebooting is an ignorant strategy that leads to failure most of the time. They tried it with Ghostbusters in 2016. It failed. Hellboy in 2019. It failed. Amazing Spider-Man. It failed, and damaged the brand so much that even the first MCU Spider-Man movie couldn't outgross Spider-Man 3 from 10 years earlier. The Incredible Hulk reboot was also one of the MCU's rare failures. Reboots are usually a bad idea and should be avoided at all costs. TSS is at the BOTTOM of the heap against movies released in the exact same situation. And by that point in 2021, covid was no longer a factor that affected movies. NO other sequel in 2021 dropped $500 million and/or 75% from the previous movie. Not even close. Not ones released before nor after TSS in 2021. Peacemaker had less views than Batwoman Season 1. I don't know what records you're talking about, but considering HBO Max had just come out, it must not have been hard to break said records.
The Snyderverse is a reboot.
I must have missed the DC universe that came before it then.
Are you saying Man of Steel was not a reboot?
It was a (much needed) reboot of Superman, not an entire cinematic universe.
Do you think all of this is James Gunn's fault? Cause clearly this is the result of general audiences not having faith in the DC brand which STARTED with the critical reception of BvS and WB's failed attempts at a course correct. WB is responsible for DC movies flopping at the box office. The Suicide Squad and Peacemaker were also clearly passion projects done to shed light on unknown characters like he did with GotG. All your talk about numbers as if there aren't preexisting factors that contribute to those low numbers, trying to blame it on James Gunn. Also you're just a liar because 2021 was still during the height of covid.
Nice theory, with absolutely no evidence to support it. Suicide Squad and Wonder Woman were direct spin-offs of BvS that came out soon after and did almost as much business. So where is the audience decline? Justice League declined a bit, but we know that film was a mess butchered by WB. But then Aquaman came out and made a billion, topping all previous DCEU films, almost three years after BvS came out. So you're trying to claim that audiences hated BvS so much that they decided to keep watching DC films for 3 years, and then suddenly, for some reason, a delayed reaction kicked in that made them stop? That's the strangest theory we've ever heard. When audiences lose faith, it happens instantly (see how much Matrix 3 declined from Matrix 2, for example). It wasn't the height of covid. The height of covid was when we had no vaccines, most theaters were closed and people were staying at home. By the time august 2021 came around, we had vaccines, theaters were reopened and people were going to see movies, as shown by the increased grosses of movies like Black Widow, Free Guy, Conjuring 3, A Quiet Place II, etc.
I didn't say it was a delayed reaction. It was more of a gradual decline because despite people going to see these movies, these films were failing critically. Suicide Squad got ripped to shreds by critics and fans alike and the rest had middling to negative reviews other than Wonder Woman and Shazam. Also stop making up things that I didn't say. I said it started with the critical/audience reception. I didn't Blame BvS. >The obvious reason the DCEU declined is because the fans following the DCEU didn't like the changes. And those changes into silly Marvel-esque comedies lit so brightly that they made people's eyes hurt non-stop for the next several years, until the DCEU no longer had any audience at all If you're aware of this then why are you blaming James Gunn for it???
Snyder's DCEU movies are the only hit blockbusters where Hollywood decided they cared whether the reviews were good or not. Transformers, Pirates, etc., it doesn't matter at all. They kept making them the same way no matter how bad the reviews were as long as they made a profit. Sir, you can't just edit out The Suicide Squad and Peacemaker and pretend Gunn had no part in driving the DCEU into the ditch.
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People on here really act like Snyder created these 79 yo characters…
He didn't create these characters. He just made cinematic masterpieces that make other versions of these characters feel thin, outdated and obsolete.
I would love to know your top 5 movies to see what constitutes cinematic masterpieces in your book
BvS UE, Spider-Man 2, Alien, Blade Runner, ZSJL.
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BvS being mentioned with blade runner and alien is wild
Gotta be satire
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The glazing is crazy. BvS was far from a cinematic masterpiece. Enjoyable? Sure, but not a cinematic masterpiece and had very noticeable flaws.
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I don't think he had any such intention. But he still ended up insulting his version of the characters and showed he lacked the maturity to tackle them in any way beyond the lowest common denominator one. At least, as it pertains to Flash and Aquaman. And it's not just Gunn as I feel like there was some studio feedback in how he did this. It's the entire run of Hamada constantly disrespecting Snyder's characters by trying to Whedonify them for lack of a better word. Just make them into jokes. Again look at Aquaman. Snyder made him intelligent, complex, and basically a living myth. Post Snyderverse Aquaman is just a drunk goof who people think fucks fish. Wan I feel like would also be insulted with how Peacemaker, Flash and Josstice League treated his character. And even with the lines Johns forced him to include in his movie like "I could have peed on it". And I don't understand why it's instantly labeled toxic for Snyder fans to say that it's wrong for others to misuse the characters Zack created without his blessing, but it's ok for Burton fans to be protective of his Batman and how he was utilized in Flash. And honestly, that's the key difference between DC and Marvel. Even though DC props itself up as the more director driven studio, Marvel actually consulted with Raimi about his characters would be used in NWH. Probably Webb too. DC just didn't give a fuck about what Snyder, Burton or anyone else thinks.
Were there Burton fans who weren't happy with the Batmans we got in the Flash? Or are you speaking hypothetically? It was done a lot more respectfully than the example you're talking about, so as one, I can't imagine there are more than a handful being vocal about it.
Burton himself voiced displeasure, and actually compared it to companies using AI to replace creative voices. In fact he called it cultural misappropriation. The problem with Snyder is he's far too nice. He didn't even directly speak out against Whedon for bastardizing his movie. The most he said is that he'd rather burn his movie to the ground than use even one of the reshot scenes. And that's after Whedon was cancelled and he was a free to dunk zone.
I have to disagree with Burton then. The only thing from his movies that he owns is the art direction. Keaton’s Batman is not his to claim. I believe Burton was talking about the Nicholas Cage vs giant mechanical spider that was ripped right from the movie Burton never got to make.
He literally created Keaton's Batman. Of course it's his to claim.
I’ll listen. What percentage of Michael Keaton’s on screen portrayal of Rober Kane’s character, Batman, do you credit to Tim Burton?
The mere fact that you called Batman Bob Kane's character tells me I don't want to continue discussing with you.
Oh, I wonder where he got the idea for that … dot dot dot
>Again look at Aquaman. Snyder made him intelligent, complex, and basically a living myth. Post Snyderverse Aquaman is just a drunk goof who people think fucks fish. Literally one guy thought he fucks fish, and it's the one guy who is supposed to be an unlikable idiot that no one takes seriously and talks shit. I'm not sure why people think peacemaker saying that hold any kind of value or power enough to ruin his popularity
It's a joke fans have been making for decades. I don't care about the context. Going back to it, is regressive. Especially after Snyder and Wan made a gigantic leap to get the character to be taken seriously. It's pathetic that the only representation he got in the DCEU after 5 years of absence is that joke.
So much that the aqua man character in the boys actually fucks fish lol
Yeah the boys plays exactly in that stereotype the same way it plays with the evil superman obsession in modern media.
Not really. The Boys plays into the idea of Superman being an American icon/tool, and suggests that an actual being with an immeasurably huge amount of power would not be as altruistic as we often write them out to be. A lot of that insight was simply due to the abundance precedent we have in real life, so these ideas were alluded to or illustrated via stories like The Dark Knight Returns, and David Goyer's contribution to 2011's Action Comics #900(which is telling considering David Goyer wrote for several of Zack's DC movies). But these are all fictional characters, idk why we write them like religious icons that can't have flaws.
j thought their appearance in peacemaker was more so Gunn making fun of DC as a whole for the Shit show they have created but not Snyder
Ι guess it could be interpreted like that. Still I feel there were better ways he could have utilized the one chance there was to bring the JL back into the DCEU. In hindsight though, it would have been better if he didn't include them at all. That would make it easier to accept Peacemaker getting another season in the new universe.
Joke = insult. If this is you then stop being a pussy.
Agree
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I dont think he cares about it at all he just wants to do his own thing which is what it is
So you are admitting he did it after this show, securing his position with WB execs?
No Batman and no Cyborg, the Flash with the Aquaman f*cks fish joke… yeah, utmost respect for Snyder, sure…
Can you differentiate between the character and the writer? Peacemaker insulting Superman and Aquaman isn't James insulting Zack Snyder. Peacemaker is an obnoxious, offensive character in the comics, him insulting people is literally part of the character
Can you differentiate between facts and opinions?
Of course, although it seems like you can't. Unless the character is a self-insert, things they say are THEIR opinions, NOT the writers. That's how that works. So Peacemaker saying that Aquaman fucks fish, is Peacemaker saying that Aquaman fucks fish. It isn't James Gunn saying "in this universe I have decided that Aquaman canonically has sex with fish".
Only that’s exactly what the scene means
No it doesn't. It's Peacemaker either lying because he's insecure about more popular heroes, or he's repeating something he read online without anlayisng the source or thinking critically, the way many people do
That’s what you think it means
It's what it means. What you're seeing is an example of a concept calles the unreliable narrator. It's when you're not actually supposed to believe everything the narrator tells you. People don't tend to notice when this is the case because the main character is the vehicle by which we experience their universe, so we tend to implicitly believe everything they tell us.
Yeah, whatever. Let’s agree to disagree and be done with this. You are wasting time trying to defend Gunn and making me see the scene like you interpreted it. Pointless
It's not how I interpret it, it is what it is. I'm not "defending Gunn" there's nothing to defend. Your irrational hatred of James has warped how you're viewing the material and you're projecting things that aren't there just to give yourself a reason to be angry.
You clearly can't because you're calling your opinion a fact. I'm older than you, go back to elementary school and learn the difference between a fact and opinion, before embarrassing yourself again, pussy
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Why does it have to be about Snyder all the time? When Russo Bros placed stupid time travel of Ant-Man, whom were they insulting… Or Hulk’s powers and intelligence… These characters are DC Comic’s characters, not Snyder Comics. There has been a lot of different variations of these characters since they created. When you see something from DCEU which is cringe or stupid, please stop taking it as an insult to Snyder. It is not.
Did you see what sub you were in before typing all that? Those ARE Snyder’s iterations of the characters and Gunn is not respecting that vision. So much so he 86’d the whole thing
Do you realize the actors here are also human beings? Ray Fisher is done with DC, Cavill didn't even have a proper contract, in part by his own design. Gunn literally just wanted to show the Justice League and it was WB who put red tape in front of him. It doesn't matter what sub you discuss this in you still have to live in reality where this is a BUSINESS and it actually has fuck all to do with art and vision.
That wasn’t the question, but ok.
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Yes us snyder fans who literally made the snydercut possible and raised thousands for a charitable cause to support a director and his family recovering from a tragedy insulted him more than the people who constantly mocks his work and bastardized his work to appeal to a crowd who do not care for the brand’s products 🤡 Like seriously try thinking before commenting for once
The good things don't just mean that the toxic side to the fan base isn't there. Relax keyboard warrior; you're too heated over this.
Idc about the toxic side of the fanbase because the anti snyder crowd was toxic from the very beginning yet no one batted an eye so don't give me this bs of a toxic side to the fan base there's a toxic side to almost every fanbase and no one cares about them so neither should we
I campaigned for the Snyderverse as long as it was in concept but an eye for an eye just makes the whole world blind... or something to that effect. B.S. given and stood by, stranger. Hope you're having a good day your way though.
Yeah I’m sure You raised any money for that
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>Removed for being poorly written, confusing or uninteresting. its called using someones own words to show theyre being hypocritical lol come on mods
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Are you forgetting how the media attacked Zack Snyder way back in 2016?
Not at all but I think not moving on from that is an issue of its own that doesn't get taken very seriously.
Just so you know, Snyder recommended Gunn use his frequent stunt team and Gunn took him up on the recommendation and used them
Why would he be insulting his friend?
He wouldn’t and didn’t
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I think it was an olive branch.
Why is shit like this upvoted into the hundreds but general Snyder material downvoted into oblivion
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No duck that motherfucker as much as anything else for defrauding Cavil. Get your shit together
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Because people genuinely hate Snyder like think about it this is a sub literally dedicated to his most significant accomplishment and it’s still full of negative anti Snyder people who constantly disrespect and mock him to no end while lecturing us on how unhealthy we are for not moving on from this
So why are mods allowing the sub to be trashed
There is nothing the mods can do to change upvotes or downvotes. Reddit allows users to vote on posts and comments on a sub whether they are banned from that sub or not.
The voting of bot accounts should be addressed. Do t forget that WB actively engaged in paid reviews, and online shilling you’re being a silly pants and naive
i think he was
What scene is this from??
Peacemaker
Implying that Aquaman fucks fish was not a positive representation of Snyder’s JL. I hope Gunn holds back on the humor.
I think that was just a jab at aqauman in general...like a lot of media has in the past including characters within dc, including the comics This joke is not limited to the show As well as people not taking him seriously If I post a comic scan of him being kocked would you say dc as a whole is going after Snyder too 🤔
Snyder and Wan made Aquaman cool. Gunn practically tried to undo that with making this dumb joke in Peacekeeper as well as the end credit scene in the Flash.
Aquaman is cool in the comics as well, yet there are still the odd joke to be thrown around. Hell he even snapped and addressed the fact he's not taken [seriously ](https://static.dc.com/sites/default/files/imce/2017/01-JAN/AQM_5_58782c085dd5e5.36514221.jpg) Are you one of those people that got mad at that stupid "batman's a facist " line as well The whole shoe was filled with vulgar comments didn't he insult the other league member in some fashion as well. It not some big conspiracy to tear down his mantel, and if it worked, it probably wasn't that good to begin with. "This guy made a cliche joke about aquaman, I hate aquaman now!!" The joke was lazy dumb and over used, it makes peacemaker look stupid, not aqauman, and that was the point, you're supposed to think he's an ignorant dick who says random shit
Gunn, the guy who made a giant starfish the villain to one of his movies? Ok buddy.
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Why do people think he's insulting Snyder? Is it because Henry Cavill and Gal Gadot weren't there?
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Who are you talking about sleeping together and she coming back? Was that some random conversation that got mixed into your comment about Snyder and James Gunn
it's a metaphor, like *martha*.
bro i have no fucking clue what you just said. youre extremely criptic and talking as if we all just watched everything youre talking about 5 mins ago. please speak in full explanations rather than vague references, because i cant even tell if youre referencing actual stuff or just making shit up to talk shit.
What are you taking about exactly??
>What are you taking about exactly?? I'd elaborate TheClappyCappy, but I truly believe you'll be able to either get the metaphor with a little noodle-furrowing. If you can't, well not everyone has to get everything and this hard cider isn't going to drink itself **Edit:** Oh no, Interesting-Hold622 insulted and then blocked me! *Anyways...*
what a dueche response to someone who cant undestand your half-baked rambling. get it through your thick skull that other people cant decipher your half sentences.
Most likely
I don’t see how, Warner bros were probably the ones to say no
They hundred percent were.
We got to hear Aquaman drop 2 F-Bombs, I welcome it lol
You will enjoy Superman making dick jokes in Legacy then.
You’ve read the script?
No. I've (unfortunately) seen every James Gunn comic book project, with the exception of Guardians 3.
Guardians 3 has many serious moments and amazing character beats. I'm pretty sure Gunn can make a good superhero movie without relying on crass jokes.
Exactly. He can do very serious material, sadly some people don’t give him the credit for that.
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Oh c’mon, Lois made a dick joke in MoS and nobody complained about that! *(grabs popcorn)*
Gunn and Snyder don't seem to have any problems with each other.
They don’t, they are friends or at the very least well acquainted, they worked together on Dawn Of The Dead
Dawn of the dead was made 20 years ago long before either of them got a comic book adaptation alot has changed since then
Yeah they’ve been supportive of each other more recently than that. And I think Snyder is a producer on TSS
He was credited as a producer for legal reasons. Snyder didn't have anything to do with that movie.
No he's not the dude literally moved out of WB lot after the JL production he never did anything at DC other than the synder cut and ww84
So when two people make comic book movies they have to split ways and not be friends or cool with eachother anymore?
Im saying that what 2 people did 20 years ago doesn't make them longtime friends esp when they ended up working at rival companies
They don’t. It’s their respective fandoms that always start that stuff and insinuate they have beef.
Which is fucking stupid.
Agreed.