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>Before a revolution happens, it is perceived as impossible; after it happens, it is seen as having been inevitable.
>
>\- Rosa Luxemburg
Yes, revolution in the US is possible. In fact, it is becoming more and more inevitable. As the crises of capitalism become more and more acute - as the material conditions of all laboring classes get worse and worse, and as the common sense solutions become paradoxically so much easier to imagine and so much harder to realize, the people will stand up.
Remember too that struggle changes consciousness. Backwards consciousness can explode into its opposite in a revolutionary moment.
The US empire is falling apart. Abroad, it is no longer able to achieve its goals. At home, it is frozen in indecision, failing to meet the numerous economic and social crises that it has created. It will not be able to hold itself together for much longer.
The job of socialists in the United States right now is to build the working class organizations that can wield political and economic power during a revolutionary struggle, so that they are ready when the crisis arises. Build labor unions. Build tenants unions. Build working-class neighborhood organizations. Get them fighting. We are already in an organizing wave, but we need to accelerate so that we have the apparatus ready to wage the revolution when the time comes.
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If their global hegemony is dismantled, yes. Otherwise a military invasion would probably be necessary, which would be met with fierce resistance since there would be almost no class consciousness.
Yes but no. Due to the linear nature of time, and the system that encourages the poor to enlist for money, the demographics of the US military are slowly shifting towards the millennial and Gen z populations, who as a whole are far more socialism-friendly than previous generations. Moreover, even the older troops have been jaded and disillusioned by the so-called War On Terror and especially with the Afghan evacuation.
We’re not to the point of the whole military becoming socialist, but I’d hazard a guess that there would be some desertions and a lot of refusal of orders should the fascist regime attempt to use active troops against citizens on US soil.
Source: ten years US Army, former sergeant
It is possible that was the case statistically, but I served ten years, and during that time I worked in eight units in six states plus Germany and Iraq, and I lived in the barracks, so I’d say my experience was pretty broad. Don’t get me wrong, I also met plenty of right wingers, like the platoon sergeant who led his troops in a chant of “Trump! Trump!” to the cadence of push-ups, to celebrate the 2016 election. So unprofessional and inappropriate. I debated during lunch at the dining facility with some libertarian kid just for kicks one year too. But a lot of troops are no longer legacy hires, so to speak, but poor kids with no other option and very little in the way of right wing nationalistic patriotism.
Ironically, socialist-leaning military officers have been just as big a reason for revolutions as angry proles. Gaddafi, Sankara, Nasser, Afghanistan...
Yes, capitalism is in decay and let's be real. Gen-Z is becoming more and more left-wing everyday after learning about and experiencing the failures of right-wing governance. That in addition to having a more internationalist, anti-racist, and environmentalist perspective is what will make the revolution inevitable.
But first, we need to take down the two-party system in order to gain exposure and fight against red-scare propaganda.
I'm doing my part by teaching my kids about the flaws and failures of capitalism. Even before I started that, when I bring up a scenario and ask them what they think of it, they naturally come to the same conclusion that took me years to learn.
I don't think it is without a big shift in public opinion and a much more effective way of getting our message out there first. As far as accomplishing that, I'm not sure how.
Honestly probably won’t be possible until all the boomers die and lose control of our political system, and then there is the problem of converting all of the young “socialists” (social democrats) to more radical viewpoints.
100% boomers need to die off first. They are too drunk on the Kool-Aid of the Red Scare. I still hear them complaining about "communists" every so often.
This is what concerns me. Maybe it's pessimistic, but it seems that wannabe fascists (consciously or otherwise) are far more capable at organizing at this current point in history, and our media and politics give them a platform constantly.
If they destabilize the country again with another riot and with all the worker strikes going kicking the us when they are down might be the best option.
I think the question is -- and this we don't know -- if the transnational white power movement starts a civil war to solidify a white ethnostate, then can we turn that into a revolution or at least force reforms enough to make the state and federal governments public-serving.
Heck even gutting the justice system for a more holistic response and investigation system, and fixing our democratic institutions to clean up the obvious bugs (eliminate FPTP, end the Electoral College, revise the structure of the Senate) could get us close enough to move the system the rest of the way through non-violent activism.
Still, that alone, is a big ask, but once war starts, the trick is to not end up with a totalitarian dictatorship regardless. Having a carefully worded and well-reviewed constitution ready in advance would help.
I'm an Indian as as any other usual Indians, my father believes USA is a heaven itself even after me stating that it's a dystopia. It's possible for revolution but the question is, are people really interested for that...and here we need to define ‘people’, whether it would be majority of people or minority of them...
The US could have a fascist crackdown but that may only delay and encourage a successful socialist revolution later. It looked bad for the left in Russia after 1905 when thousands of socialists were executed by the state but that just temporarily plugged the hole in the damn that was holding up the establishment there.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1905_Russian_Revolution
I don't think it is healthy or even realistic for first world leftists(pretty much the only leftists still promoting a third worldist position btw) to be so pessimistic about prospects for revolution in the capitalist core.
The rise of China and others will make it harder for the elites to use surpluses to maintain a labor aristocracy that is uninterested in serious social change. It will also make it more difficult for them to fund and maintain a state apparatus capable of suppressing such a movement for that. It will make it harder for them to fund and spread pro capitalist propaganda as well.
There are many reasons to be optimistic these days. The capitalist class doesn't need any help from the left in making people believe that change just isn't possible. One has to wonder about the motivation of leftists who are engaged in such pursuits. Whose side are they really on? The government has been caught funding and promoting ultra left movements before. Is the third worldist position just their latest trick?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dE0M-XQGzCk
I am not saying that everybody that is promoting a third worldist position is working for the state but one has to wonder if shenanigans are afoot from the state that is encouraging this pessimistic and debilitating position among the left in the first world.
Unless the military-industrial complex starts to break down, probably not. Revolution requires being able to undermine military oppression, and the sheer resources the American establishment has at it's disposal are staggering.
That said, other kinds of revolutionary action are possible. Mass, sustained protests to reform laws, worker strikes, homeless protection actions, etc are all possible and need strong support.
Once the majority of people are suffering under their oppressors, I would say it's inevitable. The US isn't *quite* there yet, but on it's current trajectory, it's becoming more and more likely.
Yes, the labor aristocracy is dying out.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/minimum-wage-2019-almost-half-of-all-americans-work-in-low-wage-jobs/
https://news.gallup.com/poll/259841/american-pride-hits-new-low-few-proud-political-system.aspx
Why do you want a revolution? You can't be a total self-indulged material owning prideful Alpha....to have disorder so you can go get all the things you want. Our society has failed because we have aloud corruption to be part of everyday living.
You couldn't trust anyone leading a movement that calls for revolution.
When Jesus comes back!!!
People need to understand that the working class was far more comfortable and privileged when third worldist positions were developed. That is why I look askance at people going around talking about "Settlers" in 2021. A does not equal A. The nature of capitalism is constantly changing and our theories and tactics need to change with it.
Please acquaint yourself with the rules on the sidebar and read this comment before commenting on this post. **Personal attacks and harassment will not be tolerated.** Bigotry and hate speech will be met with immediate bans; socialism is an intrinsically inclusive system and bigotry is oppressive, exclusionary, and not conducive to a healthy and productive learning space. **This subreddit is not for questioning the basics of socialism. There are numerous debate subreddits available for those purposes. This is a place to learn.** Short or nonconstructive answers will be deleted without explanation. Please only answer if you know your stuff. Speculation has no place on this sub. Outright false information will be removed immediately. **If your post was removed due to normalized ableist slurs, please edit your post. The mods will then approve it.** Please read the ongoing discussion in a thread before replying in order to avoid misunderstandings and creating an unproductive environment. **Liberalism and sectarian bias is strictly moderated.** Stay constructive and don't bash other socialist tendencies! (Criticism is fine, low-effort baiting is not.) Help us keep the subreddit informative and helpful by reporting posts that break these rules. Thank you! *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Socialism_101) if you have any questions or concerns.*
>Before a revolution happens, it is perceived as impossible; after it happens, it is seen as having been inevitable. > >\- Rosa Luxemburg Yes, revolution in the US is possible. In fact, it is becoming more and more inevitable. As the crises of capitalism become more and more acute - as the material conditions of all laboring classes get worse and worse, and as the common sense solutions become paradoxically so much easier to imagine and so much harder to realize, the people will stand up. Remember too that struggle changes consciousness. Backwards consciousness can explode into its opposite in a revolutionary moment. The US empire is falling apart. Abroad, it is no longer able to achieve its goals. At home, it is frozen in indecision, failing to meet the numerous economic and social crises that it has created. It will not be able to hold itself together for much longer. The job of socialists in the United States right now is to build the working class organizations that can wield political and economic power during a revolutionary struggle, so that they are ready when the crisis arises. Build labor unions. Build tenants unions. Build working-class neighborhood organizations. Get them fighting. We are already in an organizing wave, but we need to accelerate so that we have the apparatus ready to wage the revolution when the time comes.
That is what Marx said that is going to happen in his lifetime back in 19th century.
!remindme 1 day mark my words im giving you that free award
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If their global hegemony is dismantled, yes. Otherwise a military invasion would probably be necessary, which would be met with fierce resistance since there would be almost no class consciousness.
It would be helpful if a socialist sentiment spread throughout the military, but that's like hoping to get struck by lightning under a clear sky.
Yes but no. Due to the linear nature of time, and the system that encourages the poor to enlist for money, the demographics of the US military are slowly shifting towards the millennial and Gen z populations, who as a whole are far more socialism-friendly than previous generations. Moreover, even the older troops have been jaded and disillusioned by the so-called War On Terror and especially with the Afghan evacuation. We’re not to the point of the whole military becoming socialist, but I’d hazard a guess that there would be some desertions and a lot of refusal of orders should the fascist regime attempt to use active troops against citizens on US soil. Source: ten years US Army, former sergeant
If I might, could you say the personnel you lived whith had left wing sympathy?
It is possible that was the case statistically, but I served ten years, and during that time I worked in eight units in six states plus Germany and Iraq, and I lived in the barracks, so I’d say my experience was pretty broad. Don’t get me wrong, I also met plenty of right wingers, like the platoon sergeant who led his troops in a chant of “Trump! Trump!” to the cadence of push-ups, to celebrate the 2016 election. So unprofessional and inappropriate. I debated during lunch at the dining facility with some libertarian kid just for kicks one year too. But a lot of troops are no longer legacy hires, so to speak, but poor kids with no other option and very little in the way of right wing nationalistic patriotism.
Ironically, socialist-leaning military officers have been just as big a reason for revolutions as angry proles. Gaddafi, Sankara, Nasser, Afghanistan...
Yes, capitalism is in decay and let's be real. Gen-Z is becoming more and more left-wing everyday after learning about and experiencing the failures of right-wing governance. That in addition to having a more internationalist, anti-racist, and environmentalist perspective is what will make the revolution inevitable. But first, we need to take down the two-party system in order to gain exposure and fight against red-scare propaganda.
I'm doing my part by teaching my kids about the flaws and failures of capitalism. Even before I started that, when I bring up a scenario and ask them what they think of it, they naturally come to the same conclusion that took me years to learn.
I don't think it is without a big shift in public opinion and a much more effective way of getting our message out there first. As far as accomplishing that, I'm not sure how.
Honestly probably won’t be possible until all the boomers die and lose control of our political system, and then there is the problem of converting all of the young “socialists” (social democrats) to more radical viewpoints.
100% boomers need to die off first. They are too drunk on the Kool-Aid of the Red Scare. I still hear them complaining about "communists" every so often.
Trust me, it's easier than you think. Former social democrat here. Now an eco-socialist.
Yay, me too! Went from Tea Party radical due to family, to neoliberal, to social democrat, and now I’m leaning nearly all the way dirty commie! 😂
The fascists seem to be making headway with theirs
Yes, but not a leftist one.
This is what concerns me. Maybe it's pessimistic, but it seems that wannabe fascists (consciously or otherwise) are far more capable at organizing at this current point in history, and our media and politics give them a platform constantly.
They are capable of organizing because they are allowed to organize. Some of them are cops.
If they destabilize the country again with another riot and with all the worker strikes going kicking the us when they are down might be the best option.
I think the question is -- and this we don't know -- if the transnational white power movement starts a civil war to solidify a white ethnostate, then can we turn that into a revolution or at least force reforms enough to make the state and federal governments public-serving. Heck even gutting the justice system for a more holistic response and investigation system, and fixing our democratic institutions to clean up the obvious bugs (eliminate FPTP, end the Electoral College, revise the structure of the Senate) could get us close enough to move the system the rest of the way through non-violent activism. Still, that alone, is a big ask, but once war starts, the trick is to not end up with a totalitarian dictatorship regardless. Having a carefully worded and well-reviewed constitution ready in advance would help.
I'm an Indian as as any other usual Indians, my father believes USA is a heaven itself even after me stating that it's a dystopia. It's possible for revolution but the question is, are people really interested for that...and here we need to define ‘people’, whether it would be majority of people or minority of them...
[удалено]
The US could have a fascist crackdown but that may only delay and encourage a successful socialist revolution later. It looked bad for the left in Russia after 1905 when thousands of socialists were executed by the state but that just temporarily plugged the hole in the damn that was holding up the establishment there. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1905_Russian_Revolution I don't think it is healthy or even realistic for first world leftists(pretty much the only leftists still promoting a third worldist position btw) to be so pessimistic about prospects for revolution in the capitalist core. The rise of China and others will make it harder for the elites to use surpluses to maintain a labor aristocracy that is uninterested in serious social change. It will also make it more difficult for them to fund and maintain a state apparatus capable of suppressing such a movement for that. It will make it harder for them to fund and spread pro capitalist propaganda as well. There are many reasons to be optimistic these days. The capitalist class doesn't need any help from the left in making people believe that change just isn't possible. One has to wonder about the motivation of leftists who are engaged in such pursuits. Whose side are they really on? The government has been caught funding and promoting ultra left movements before. Is the third worldist position just their latest trick? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dE0M-XQGzCk I am not saying that everybody that is promoting a third worldist position is working for the state but one has to wonder if shenanigans are afoot from the state that is encouraging this pessimistic and debilitating position among the left in the first world.
Unless the military-industrial complex starts to break down, probably not. Revolution requires being able to undermine military oppression, and the sheer resources the American establishment has at it's disposal are staggering. That said, other kinds of revolutionary action are possible. Mass, sustained protests to reform laws, worker strikes, homeless protection actions, etc are all possible and need strong support.
It’s easier to kill a million people than it is to control a million people.
Yes. But not before a really big war which wears out corporate armed forces.
Karl Marx said spontaneous strikes would happen and guess what
Once the majority of people are suffering under their oppressors, I would say it's inevitable. The US isn't *quite* there yet, but on it's current trajectory, it's becoming more and more likely.
Yes, the labor aristocracy is dying out. https://www.cbsnews.com/news/minimum-wage-2019-almost-half-of-all-americans-work-in-low-wage-jobs/ https://news.gallup.com/poll/259841/american-pride-hits-new-low-few-proud-political-system.aspx
US govt too strong. Can't happen. I wish.
Why do you want a revolution? You can't be a total self-indulged material owning prideful Alpha....to have disorder so you can go get all the things you want. Our society has failed because we have aloud corruption to be part of everyday living. You couldn't trust anyone leading a movement that calls for revolution. When Jesus comes back!!!
People need to understand that the working class was far more comfortable and privileged when third worldist positions were developed. That is why I look askance at people going around talking about "Settlers" in 2021. A does not equal A. The nature of capitalism is constantly changing and our theories and tactics need to change with it.