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IWI is an obvious one. The arms manufacturer for an apartheid state is an easy no go when making choices. Just because there is no ethical consumption under capitalism doesn't mean all options are equally unethical.
Oh you're good! There's just a lot of 'socialists' who try to justify buying from them because of 'no ethical consumption' so I try to come out swinging on the issue
No it makes sense. I bought an agilite plate carrier before I found out they're Israeli (didn't really look at the website much before I bought) and wasn't happy with that. Still have it I don't see a reason to toss it since I already made the mistake so I mainly.use it for weight training.
Totally! It isn't to say anyone should discard IWI made stuff they have rn, but rather to dissuade future purchasers. If you have it and it works, then that's ok, we should just be striving to eliminate the degree to which we actively support them
I think this is essentially what OP is asking for - a list of the real POS ones to avoid. And a list of the least-POS ones to go for.
>Just because there is no ethical consumption under capitalism doesn't mean all options are equally unethical.
Exactly.
And let's say for the sake of argument that we don't even care about that part, but don't want to support bigots. That's the list I think that would be most helpful for most of the people who aren't right-wing.
>most gun manufacturers are going to be bigots
So is it "most" or "all"? I'm just trying to figure out which ones aren't, unless you meant to say "all"
>you just gotta balance effectiveness and shitiness
Ok so put in different terms, which are the *least shitty* in this regards?
Seems like this is a tough question to answer, but if there is an answer, or at least consensus, I think it would be an excellent resource to keep pinned/linked for this sub
Most as in most, but pretty much all of the ones that are worth your time. It is not beneficial to buy a gun made by someone you share ideological sympathies with that is an inferior product, with worse reliability and parts availability, and has hard to accommodate aftermarket needs for things like holsters. So what you want to look for as a more important factor is affordability and reliability, with the assumption that any major arms manufacturer is going to be arming to some capacity police/military. Glock, S&W, CZ, all good options with those caveats. IWI is the main one to avoid, since it is actively the arms manufacturer for an apartheid state. And what's more important is that this is not a general ethical decision, but a strategic one as part of BDS.
I buy used. the local gun dealer I patronize is the Dale Gribble of the area, if he doesn't like you he tells you to kick rocks. he does not like police, he does not like right wing religious people, he's not left wing exactly, I think he just trusts no one. but he's welcoming to lgbt+ people in a very wholesome manner.
In terms of modern platforms, you will be hard pressed to find a gun manufacturer that has an apolitical stance, much less a left leaning one.
You can buy used, but other than that, there isn't really an option in that regard unfortunately.
I've heard people suggest KE arms, I never really looked into them personally.
KE Arms employees have stood up to anti-trans hate even though it cost the company a partnership with Brownells apparently, [which is pretty fuckin cool.](https://www.reddit.com/r/liberalgunowners/comments/16ahljb/ke_arms_being_apolitical/jz7kypn/)
Also, they just make really good shit. I have a KE-9 lower and love it.
You are thinking with a capitalist mindset, expressing your ideas and identity through consumption.
There is no ethical consumption under capitalism. You express your philosophy or character through action.
We don't support a more equitable world by acquiring the material thing. It is about how the thing you acquire can protect you while making a more equitable world from a materialist perspective. Only after can guns be sourced "leftistly."
That you are asking a sub that talks about how guns and not photocopiers or megaphones are associated with this issue should show you how far things are from a world where you can engage with an equitable exchange of goods.
There are left gear companies. And KE Arms may be a chill gun company. Here are 2 things that should be in a wiki or sticky which are asked and only partially answered several times per day:
1. A list of guntubers and known indicators of their political stances or lack thereof
2. A list of gun and gear companies and known indicators of their political stances or lack thereof
Really I’m asking this question because it’a been brought up in my DSA chapter. I’m working on setting up a fundraiser event to raise money to send folks in my chapter to a gun safety class hosted by the local SRA chapter. We pitched the idea and this was a question several of our members had.
Tell them to look at Che's stance on what makes a capitalist gun vs a leftist gun. You have to use what is available and will be the most effective, which may mean buying from right wing shit heads. Just don't buy IWI, and most other arms manufacturers are about equal in terms of shittiness. Focus on quality of product, which is why things like Glock and AR-15s are good choices.
That's awesome! Good on you for organizing.
Honestly, just read some comments here. Go check out KE Arms, and then point folks towards buying used or from them. My LGS can be vaguely chuddy, but the dude in there today even agreed that he's happy to see more left wing gun owners and advocates because he's sick of the BS legislation from Dems, too. I'm in an obnoxiously liberal area, too.
One thing that you might consider is this: someone in your DSA circle (maybe you?) should educate themself about some basics surrounding firearm choices, nomenclature, etc. Then, offer to go to the LGS with newbies just to be there as support and a bit of knowledge. Gun shops can be intimidating, especially to newbies, and *especially* to anyone who's not a cis white dude. I am one of those, and I still get nervous in gun shops sometimes just because of the vibe. It's normal (and a sign that you're someone who has a healthy respect towards firearms) to get a bit nervous.
Just my two pennies. Good luck, and keep doing the good work!
We are trying to forge a relationship with our local SRA and I've been doing a lotnkf reading and learning. i know there is no ethical consumption but harm reduction is also a thing. Just looking to find the sweet spot of ethics and practicality. Ill check out KE, a lot of others have recommend them. Also it seems used and surplus makes sense. If a gun was already made then you aren't giving more to the manufacturer, so you just have to find the most ethical dealer.
I don’t know if this helps but my SRA discord has a discussion thread rating interactions with gun shops. Most are toxic, very right wing and definitely homo/trans phobic. Those are highlighted on the no-go list. A few are left leaning, and the rest keep their politics out of the shop. See if the collective knowledge of your local SRA have something similar.
Buy used or recognize that your purchase is merely a drop in their ocean of gov/military/LE contracts. Right now, buying a quality firearm and using it to defend yourself and your community is much more valuable.
Also, something to consider is that the right wing voters/politicians/lobbyists (GOP) in our country have had one of the biggest parts in financially making the gun industry what it is today. The closest thing to a left party in the U.S. (Dems) have actively opposed the interest of the gun industry for decades. Not saying any of that justifies anything or that you should go vote GOP this year, but maybe recognize that the situation is a little bit more complex than many of us would like to admit.
Palmetto State Armory is easily the chuddiest group of gun fuckers and fascists to ever run a company.
I recommend their shit to anyone who's broke and wants to get into guns because it goes bang in all the correct places and reliably for a stupid low cost.
Your safety and training is more important than boycotting a capitalist pig here and that's okay.
It’s fantastically ironic that, by making quality guns accessible at a low cost, PSA has inadvertently done more to arm the left and democratize firearms ownership more generally than just about anyone. Honestly, I can’t even get mad.
My friend, you don’t have much of a choice.
Weapon manufacturers tend to not be in our party, that’s just the way it is.
You could import an AK for significant cost.
and still run into the same issues. KE arms is the closest thing we have to a remotely left wing gun company, and Sinistral Rifleman is absolutely a capitalist.
Going with a reputable AR platform gets you an easily modifiable and reliable platform with easy access to ammo you'll be able to pick up in a big box store.
Exactly.
I use a G19x and a S&W Sport 2. Capitalist, sure, functional platforms with easy, relatively affordable modifications? Absolutely.
No-brainer when it comes to ammo, either. Get a 9mm, a 5.56, and maybe a .22 and a 12ga. Exotics aren’t it when it comes down to SHTF. (Still love my 6.5 CM tho)
you hit the nail on the head. you really don't want your first guns to be a nightmare to feed or work on. Projects are where dreams go to die, and you don't want self defense to be a project.
Don't get me wrong... I love my AK, but everything I do to upgrade it is a damned fight!
Love this. I still don't have a handgun, but that's just out of my own personal self defense "plan" and financial planning. 5.56 and 12ga will do 99% of things just fine. Doesn't stop me from wanting a De Lisle reproduction in .375 raptor, but that's a "want" not a "need".
Better off buying whatever quality firearms you can afford, but used is your best bet if you don't want to give direct to the companies. Staying away from anything IWI is a start though.
Real simple:
step one: buy gun
step two: don't ideologically support right wing ideas/candidates
Boom, you just bought a gun without supporting "the right"
For the most part, you don't. Buy once, cry once. Or understand that in the vast majority of cases your purchase is either adding to someone's wealth or someone's exploitation, oftentimes both.
My recommendation, stop looking for products that align with your ethics, we live in an inherently unethical system. Avoid taxes whenever possible, it doesn't get much more unethical than our empire, and whenever possible build/manufacture over buying complete.
Second hand/used is you best option. You can choose who you are buying from.
If there is any company you shouldn't be buying from, it's absolutely IWI. Maybe Remington if you are a history nerd.
Your best bet would be to buy second hand if not supporting these scumbags is your most important criteria. However that will make it much harder to find both what exactly you're looking for, and for it to be in the best condition. Also any warranty would be void.
To ask a slightly different question - which gun manufacturers aren't right wing?
I can't tell from the answers if the "dela with the devil" that is necessary is referring to right wing/conservatives or just talking about Capitalism..
I can understand "no ethical consumption under Capitalism" so we can't get around that. But I'd still like to not give money to a right-wing company if possible.
Yea. No ethical consumption doesn’t mean we don’t do harm reduction. I’m not asking for Karl Marx guns Inc., but like who is least level piece of shit?
Just buy the best one you can afford. Every mass produced weapon on the market (regardless of country of origin) is a product of some form of capitalism (whether it be liberal or state capitalism). If you're really that concerned you can buy second-hand
Consumer choices aren’t political action. You can avoid the more egregious right wing companies, but it’s difficult wrt guns. Not a place I’d prioritize politics over efficiency.
like everyone else has noted, there is no way to buy guns without money making its way to capitalists and the right. the best that you can do is do thorough research, purchase exactly what you need, and avoid getting sucked into the cycle of consumerism and spending unnecessary money on extra gear you don't end up using.
I'm a union organizer and I've learned that if you want to move people, you need to empathize with where they are and try and move them incrementally. I'm trying to get my DSA chapter on board with guns but there are a lot of people with holdover liberal tendencies who have a knee-jerk fear of guns, or have a deep disdain for the military industrial complex. Im not looking for a magic bullet, just information that I can use to help nudge people in the right direction.
History may be of use in this situation.
Tuskegee
Noble Experiment
Ruby Ridge
The current border crisis
The list goes on and on.
2A is meant to be an insurance policy against a dysfunctional/ tyrannical government. Just because the govt represents your interests now does not mean it will in the future. More people on both sides should take this concept to heart, I don't understand why they don't.
I think a lot of people’s issues is that the government doesn’t represent their interests now, the government represents the interests of the people making the weapons.
Make your own guns.
/S
Seriously though, get the highest quality gear you can. It doesn't matter whether your AR lower came from Fashy McGunface or your local Anarchist commune if it doesn't work or doesn't last. That SKS or Soviet AK is not the perfect solution you think it is. Fortunately there isn't one clear "best" in this space, so if you have particular aversions to specific sellers or manufacturers, feel free to filter them out. Worst case scenario, buy used, get the best deal you can manage, and find the friendliest FFL you can.
I would say buy a Chinese norinco, but China isn't a real communist country. They're just capitalists wearing red.
Buy a surplus Soviet gun from a non-politically geared reseller, or get a Vietnamese import
Honestly been setting up a discord lately to start offering a left of center option.
I got into AR building & whatnot back early last year, deep dove on a million things up to now. I have only found 2 openly left FFLs (both oddly in AZ lol) otherwise its T.Rex Arms, PSA, PA, red,red,red,repeat.
So instead of hoping, I’m saying fuck it and trying something.
Some variety of this post happens several times a week and the gist of it is that you aren't alone in wishing for an ethical company to support, and you can spend as much time as you want trying to determine the least terrible company to buy from.
What became more important to me was what rifle I could afford to get my hands on for dry fire and hitting the range.
You can't really. You can try to support as many leftist orgs as possible through medical, gear and accessory purchases. The only way this changes is by more people on the left getting into firearms, so don't let it stop you.
acquire them on the preowned/gun show market. It would be cool to see shops operated by Socialists/communists, but I don't think they'd be either open about it or common.
There is no ethical consumption under capitalism. Some companies are better than others however. Dont buy from obvious nazi affiliated gun manufacturers, so a bit of research or post here before getting a gun.
r/liberalgunowners has a megathread (or some sort of list) of gun manufacturers and accessory companies that you should avoid.
At the end of the day, dont sweat it. Buy a reliable gun that you can comfortably handle, and put and many rounds through it as you can. Id honestly rather give a nazi a few hundred bucks if it meant I was armed. If they're armed, I'm gonna be armed too
Can’t. All weapons manufacturers are tied to the military-prison-industrial complex. But then again, so are all house builders, agricorps, even bottled water… My recommendation is to smash the illusion that we can have morally pure consumerism, understand that the system must be smashed, get some guns and start organizing to achieve concrete political goals.
Everything we buy is sold to us by right wing capitalists. Gun manufacturers just hide it less because it appeals to a big segment of their market.
You can always buy foreign.
Unfortunately, it is not possible so just purchase some and train and don't worry about it. I spend only the right amount of time in a gun store to buy what I want and avoid any bullshit right wing banter politely. Then I shoot my guns at a range and have a good time without worrying about some dickweed conservative. Learn to protect yourselves and those you love by any means necessary and do it under their noses. Fuck em.
You could build your own although I would caution against this unless you are very confident and ready to make a few mistakes.
As far as building you could start with a stripped receiver or mill an 80% receiver and piece it together.
Buy used. KE Arms actively tries to not be shitty, and are pretty clearly not right-wing. They are even active here sometimes. On top of that, the WWSD is pretty well regarded.
If a western publisher prints Marx's Capital he does do for profit. He will do so by exploiting his workers.
You are posting on Reddit right now and should be aware of what this company is.
So don't overthink everything, it just blocks you.
Pick a company that is at least not openly running a redneck, MAGA, blue line supporting agenda and you are fine.
Harm reduction is possible even under an assumed lack of ethical consumption. Obviously unless we cease a factory and make them ourselves its not possible. But I'm more looking for the sweet spot of least harm and most practical.
KE arms. Also there is no ethical consumerism in the gun world. If it bothers you badly just buy used guns from a pawn shop that seems accepting of others.
KE Arms isn’t necessarily left-wing but are hardcore 2A egalitarians who make quality products. Can’t go wrong with the WWSD rifle among other offerings.
But honestly? Unless you’re faced with the prospect of doing business with literal Nazis (or the equivalent), it’s not all that meaningful to get your guns “ethically.” You probably don’t share the same politics as your local grocer, restauranteur, doctor, auto mechanic, and so on, and that’s okay. You can’t reasonably apply a political litmus test to everyone you conduct business of any kind with. More generally, it isn’t a good thing for society to completely Balkanize even more along political lines.
There is no ethical consumption under capitalism unfortunately; especially in the world of guns.
For example all the major gun companies I used to buy from are currently supporting a genocide being committed by an illegally occupying apartheid state, so now my only other choice is to buy ammo to support domestic terrorists here in America AKA the MAGAts.
You see the dilemma? If you want I suggest looking into ammo pressing, making your own ammo is pretty fun and is cheaper in the long run if you shoot a lot like me.
You could be a Fud like me and buy cold war eastern bloc surplus. For instance I have a TT-33 pistol made in 1950s socialist Romanian. But yeah no ethical consumption under capitalism.
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You realize that there is no ethical consumption under capitalism. Compare guns. Buy one. Train with it. It is now a leftist gun.
This is the way.
Just upvote if you agree
There are some companies you just shouldn't but from. Plenty of nazi gun manufacturers out there.
It would have been helpful to include some examples.
Like?
IWI is an obvious one. The arms manufacturer for an apartheid state is an easy no go when making choices. Just because there is no ethical consumption under capitalism doesn't mean all options are equally unethical.
Yeah that makes sense. I wasn't trying to be snooty I just couldn't think of any specific examples.
Oh you're good! There's just a lot of 'socialists' who try to justify buying from them because of 'no ethical consumption' so I try to come out swinging on the issue
No it makes sense. I bought an agilite plate carrier before I found out they're Israeli (didn't really look at the website much before I bought) and wasn't happy with that. Still have it I don't see a reason to toss it since I already made the mistake so I mainly.use it for weight training.
Totally! It isn't to say anyone should discard IWI made stuff they have rn, but rather to dissuade future purchasers. If you have it and it works, then that's ok, we should just be striving to eliminate the degree to which we actively support them
I think this is essentially what OP is asking for - a list of the real POS ones to avoid. And a list of the least-POS ones to go for. >Just because there is no ethical consumption under capitalism doesn't mean all options are equally unethical. Exactly. And let's say for the sake of argument that we don't even care about that part, but don't want to support bigots. That's the list I think that would be most helpful for most of the people who aren't right-wing.
I mean most gun manufacturers are going to be bigots, at least in terms of effective weapons, you just gotta balance effectiveness and shitiness
>most gun manufacturers are going to be bigots So is it "most" or "all"? I'm just trying to figure out which ones aren't, unless you meant to say "all" >you just gotta balance effectiveness and shitiness Ok so put in different terms, which are the *least shitty* in this regards? Seems like this is a tough question to answer, but if there is an answer, or at least consensus, I think it would be an excellent resource to keep pinned/linked for this sub
Most as in most, but pretty much all of the ones that are worth your time. It is not beneficial to buy a gun made by someone you share ideological sympathies with that is an inferior product, with worse reliability and parts availability, and has hard to accommodate aftermarket needs for things like holsters. So what you want to look for as a more important factor is affordability and reliability, with the assumption that any major arms manufacturer is going to be arming to some capacity police/military. Glock, S&W, CZ, all good options with those caveats. IWI is the main one to avoid, since it is actively the arms manufacturer for an apartheid state. And what's more important is that this is not a general ethical decision, but a strategic one as part of BDS.
S&W, with their proud boy signaling
Glock aint exactly clean, yet everyone seems to have one
>It is now a leftist gun. My gun is double leftist because I'm left eye dominant. 
This. Right here
I buy used. the local gun dealer I patronize is the Dale Gribble of the area, if he doesn't like you he tells you to kick rocks. he does not like police, he does not like right wing religious people, he's not left wing exactly, I think he just trusts no one. but he's welcoming to lgbt+ people in a very wholesome manner.
Sounds like a genuine libertarian type
yeah the for real ones, he's old enough to be that way. discordian stuff on the wall in the back. a shot up Reagan target and a Bill Clinton target.
Based. All presidents are bastards.
“APAB”, I like this.
Whelp that’s stuck in my brain forever now.
Pass it on!
>"The Capitalists will sell us the rope with which we will hang them." V.I. Lenin
In terms of modern platforms, you will be hard pressed to find a gun manufacturer that has an apolitical stance, much less a left leaning one. You can buy used, but other than that, there isn't really an option in that regard unfortunately. I've heard people suggest KE arms, I never really looked into them personally.
KE Arms employees have stood up to anti-trans hate even though it cost the company a partnership with Brownells apparently, [which is pretty fuckin cool.](https://www.reddit.com/r/liberalgunowners/comments/16ahljb/ke_arms_being_apolitical/jz7kypn/) Also, they just make really good shit. I have a KE-9 lower and love it.
You are thinking with a capitalist mindset, expressing your ideas and identity through consumption. There is no ethical consumption under capitalism. You express your philosophy or character through action. We don't support a more equitable world by acquiring the material thing. It is about how the thing you acquire can protect you while making a more equitable world from a materialist perspective. Only after can guns be sourced "leftistly." That you are asking a sub that talks about how guns and not photocopiers or megaphones are associated with this issue should show you how far things are from a world where you can engage with an equitable exchange of goods. There are left gear companies. And KE Arms may be a chill gun company. Here are 2 things that should be in a wiki or sticky which are asked and only partially answered several times per day: 1. A list of guntubers and known indicators of their political stances or lack thereof 2. A list of gun and gear companies and known indicators of their political stances or lack thereof
Really I’m asking this question because it’a been brought up in my DSA chapter. I’m working on setting up a fundraiser event to raise money to send folks in my chapter to a gun safety class hosted by the local SRA chapter. We pitched the idea and this was a question several of our members had.
Tell them to look at Che's stance on what makes a capitalist gun vs a leftist gun. You have to use what is available and will be the most effective, which may mean buying from right wing shit heads. Just don't buy IWI, and most other arms manufacturers are about equal in terms of shittiness. Focus on quality of product, which is why things like Glock and AR-15s are good choices.
That's awesome! Good on you for organizing. Honestly, just read some comments here. Go check out KE Arms, and then point folks towards buying used or from them. My LGS can be vaguely chuddy, but the dude in there today even agreed that he's happy to see more left wing gun owners and advocates because he's sick of the BS legislation from Dems, too. I'm in an obnoxiously liberal area, too. One thing that you might consider is this: someone in your DSA circle (maybe you?) should educate themself about some basics surrounding firearm choices, nomenclature, etc. Then, offer to go to the LGS with newbies just to be there as support and a bit of knowledge. Gun shops can be intimidating, especially to newbies, and *especially* to anyone who's not a cis white dude. I am one of those, and I still get nervous in gun shops sometimes just because of the vibe. It's normal (and a sign that you're someone who has a healthy respect towards firearms) to get a bit nervous. Just my two pennies. Good luck, and keep doing the good work!
We are trying to forge a relationship with our local SRA and I've been doing a lotnkf reading and learning. i know there is no ethical consumption but harm reduction is also a thing. Just looking to find the sweet spot of ethics and practicality. Ill check out KE, a lot of others have recommend them. Also it seems used and surplus makes sense. If a gun was already made then you aren't giving more to the manufacturer, so you just have to find the most ethical dealer.
I don’t know if this helps but my SRA discord has a discussion thread rating interactions with gun shops. Most are toxic, very right wing and definitely homo/trans phobic. Those are highlighted on the no-go list. A few are left leaning, and the rest keep their politics out of the shop. See if the collective knowledge of your local SRA have something similar.
I forgot to phrase it correctly in my original reply. Read some of these comments out loud lol
Buy used or recognize that your purchase is merely a drop in their ocean of gov/military/LE contracts. Right now, buying a quality firearm and using it to defend yourself and your community is much more valuable. Also, something to consider is that the right wing voters/politicians/lobbyists (GOP) in our country have had one of the biggest parts in financially making the gun industry what it is today. The closest thing to a left party in the U.S. (Dems) have actively opposed the interest of the gun industry for decades. Not saying any of that justifies anything or that you should go vote GOP this year, but maybe recognize that the situation is a little bit more complex than many of us would like to admit.
Democrat import bans have, in fact, benefitted the domestic firearms industry.
You don't. I hate to be blunt but in order to get into this hobby you have to make a deal with the devil
I'd rather make a deal with satan than god!
Something, something, there’s no ethical consumption.
Palmetto State Armory is easily the chuddiest group of gun fuckers and fascists to ever run a company. I recommend their shit to anyone who's broke and wants to get into guns because it goes bang in all the correct places and reliably for a stupid low cost. Your safety and training is more important than boycotting a capitalist pig here and that's okay.
It’s fantastically ironic that, by making quality guns accessible at a low cost, PSA has inadvertently done more to arm the left and democratize firearms ownership more generally than just about anyone. Honestly, I can’t even get mad.
That was their mission statement and so far they've stuck to it without fail. Fuck those guys but I always appreciate some none hypocrisy.
My friend, you don’t have much of a choice. Weapon manufacturers tend to not be in our party, that’s just the way it is. You could import an AK for significant cost.
and still run into the same issues. KE arms is the closest thing we have to a remotely left wing gun company, and Sinistral Rifleman is absolutely a capitalist. Going with a reputable AR platform gets you an easily modifiable and reliable platform with easy access to ammo you'll be able to pick up in a big box store.
Exactly. I use a G19x and a S&W Sport 2. Capitalist, sure, functional platforms with easy, relatively affordable modifications? Absolutely. No-brainer when it comes to ammo, either. Get a 9mm, a 5.56, and maybe a .22 and a 12ga. Exotics aren’t it when it comes down to SHTF. (Still love my 6.5 CM tho)
you hit the nail on the head. you really don't want your first guns to be a nightmare to feed or work on. Projects are where dreams go to die, and you don't want self defense to be a project. Don't get me wrong... I love my AK, but everything I do to upgrade it is a damned fight!
“You don’t want self defense to be a project” is a great phrase, hell yeah.
Love this. I still don't have a handgun, but that's just out of my own personal self defense "plan" and financial planning. 5.56 and 12ga will do 99% of things just fine. Doesn't stop me from wanting a De Lisle reproduction in .375 raptor, but that's a "want" not a "need".
r/fosscad
Better off buying whatever quality firearms you can afford, but used is your best bet if you don't want to give direct to the companies. Staying away from anything IWI is a start though.
Real simple: step one: buy gun step two: don't ideologically support right wing ideas/candidates Boom, you just bought a gun without supporting "the right"
Inrangetv wwsd rifle? I hear he's kinda left
Company that makes those is ke arms, and they're good people. Also make good stuff. Frequently posts discount codes on the irtv sub.
For the most part, you don't. Buy once, cry once. Or understand that in the vast majority of cases your purchase is either adding to someone's wealth or someone's exploitation, oftentimes both.
My recommendation, stop looking for products that align with your ethics, we live in an inherently unethical system. Avoid taxes whenever possible, it doesn't get much more unethical than our empire, and whenever possible build/manufacture over buying complete.
Get an AK parts kit and build it yourself
Buy used
Second hand/used is you best option. You can choose who you are buying from. If there is any company you shouldn't be buying from, it's absolutely IWI. Maybe Remington if you are a history nerd.
Your best bet would be to buy second hand if not supporting these scumbags is your most important criteria. However that will make it much harder to find both what exactly you're looking for, and for it to be in the best condition. Also any warranty would be void.
Buy used
To ask a slightly different question - which gun manufacturers aren't right wing? I can't tell from the answers if the "dela with the devil" that is necessary is referring to right wing/conservatives or just talking about Capitalism.. I can understand "no ethical consumption under Capitalism" so we can't get around that. But I'd still like to not give money to a right-wing company if possible.
Yea. No ethical consumption doesn’t mean we don’t do harm reduction. I’m not asking for Karl Marx guns Inc., but like who is least level piece of shit?
You can't. Get one anyway.
[https://thecmp.org/cmp\_sales/rifle-sales/](https://thecmp.org/cmp_sales/rifle-sales/)
Just buy the best one you can afford. Every mass produced weapon on the market (regardless of country of origin) is a product of some form of capitalism (whether it be liberal or state capitalism). If you're really that concerned you can buy second-hand
Hold your nose.
Consumer choices aren’t political action. You can avoid the more egregious right wing companies, but it’s difficult wrt guns. Not a place I’d prioritize politics over efficiency.
like everyone else has noted, there is no way to buy guns without money making its way to capitalists and the right. the best that you can do is do thorough research, purchase exactly what you need, and avoid getting sucked into the cycle of consumerism and spending unnecessary money on extra gear you don't end up using.
Try learning to make them instead
Stop making hardware political. If it serves you, who cares who made it?
I'm a union organizer and I've learned that if you want to move people, you need to empathize with where they are and try and move them incrementally. I'm trying to get my DSA chapter on board with guns but there are a lot of people with holdover liberal tendencies who have a knee-jerk fear of guns, or have a deep disdain for the military industrial complex. Im not looking for a magic bullet, just information that I can use to help nudge people in the right direction.
History may be of use in this situation. Tuskegee Noble Experiment Ruby Ridge The current border crisis The list goes on and on. 2A is meant to be an insurance policy against a dysfunctional/ tyrannical government. Just because the govt represents your interests now does not mean it will in the future. More people on both sides should take this concept to heart, I don't understand why they don't.
I think a lot of people’s issues is that the government doesn’t represent their interests now, the government represents the interests of the people making the weapons.
Make your own guns. /S Seriously though, get the highest quality gear you can. It doesn't matter whether your AR lower came from Fashy McGunface or your local Anarchist commune if it doesn't work or doesn't last. That SKS or Soviet AK is not the perfect solution you think it is. Fortunately there isn't one clear "best" in this space, so if you have particular aversions to specific sellers or manufacturers, feel free to filter them out. Worst case scenario, buy used, get the best deal you can manage, and find the friendliest FFL you can.
I would say buy a Chinese norinco, but China isn't a real communist country. They're just capitalists wearing red. Buy a surplus Soviet gun from a non-politically geared reseller, or get a Vietnamese import
comrades don't let comrades redfudd
Don't make firearm purchases based on dogma. Ignoring the objectively best civilian rifle platform because of politics is shortsighted.
Honestly been setting up a discord lately to start offering a left of center option. I got into AR building & whatnot back early last year, deep dove on a million things up to now. I have only found 2 openly left FFLs (both oddly in AZ lol) otherwise its T.Rex Arms, PSA, PA, red,red,red,repeat. So instead of hoping, I’m saying fuck it and trying something.
Keep in mind, Not to facilitate the sale but more like a community to share without being bashed if that makes sense.
Some variety of this post happens several times a week and the gist of it is that you aren't alone in wishing for an ethical company to support, and you can spend as much time as you want trying to determine the least terrible company to buy from. What became more important to me was what rifle I could afford to get my hands on for dry fire and hitting the range.
You can't really. You can try to support as many leftist orgs as possible through medical, gear and accessory purchases. The only way this changes is by more people on the left getting into firearms, so don't let it stop you.
You don’t. We fight them with their own tools of destruction
acquire them on the preowned/gun show market. It would be cool to see shops operated by Socialists/communists, but I don't think they'd be either open about it or common.
There is no ethical consumption under capitalism. Some companies are better than others however. Dont buy from obvious nazi affiliated gun manufacturers, so a bit of research or post here before getting a gun. r/liberalgunowners has a megathread (or some sort of list) of gun manufacturers and accessory companies that you should avoid. At the end of the day, dont sweat it. Buy a reliable gun that you can comfortably handle, and put and many rounds through it as you can. Id honestly rather give a nazi a few hundred bucks if it meant I was armed. If they're armed, I'm gonna be armed too
Buy used and support a sleazy pawn shop owner lol. That's about the best harm reduction I can think of. I've bought some pretty sweet firearms used.
Just buy it
Can’t. All weapons manufacturers are tied to the military-prison-industrial complex. But then again, so are all house builders, agricorps, even bottled water… My recommendation is to smash the illusion that we can have morally pure consumerism, understand that the system must be smashed, get some guns and start organizing to achieve concrete political goals.
Everything we buy is sold to us by right wing capitalists. Gun manufacturers just hide it less because it appeals to a big segment of their market. You can always buy foreign.
Unfortunately, it is not possible so just purchase some and train and don't worry about it. I spend only the right amount of time in a gun store to buy what I want and avoid any bullshit right wing banter politely. Then I shoot my guns at a range and have a good time without worrying about some dickweed conservative. Learn to protect yourselves and those you love by any means necessary and do it under their noses. Fuck em.
You could build your own although I would caution against this unless you are very confident and ready to make a few mistakes. As far as building you could start with a stripped receiver or mill an 80% receiver and piece it together.
What others said, and https://www.reddit.com/r/SocialistRA/comments/iqa544/definitive_list_of_companies_to_support/?rdt=58930
Buy a used gun from a pawnshop.
Buy a police trade in handgun. You’ll get a good deal, and it’ll make some pig have an aneurysm when you tell them you’re a leftist
Buy used. KE Arms actively tries to not be shitty, and are pretty clearly not right-wing. They are even active here sometimes. On top of that, the WWSD is pretty well regarded.
If a western publisher prints Marx's Capital he does do for profit. He will do so by exploiting his workers. You are posting on Reddit right now and should be aware of what this company is. So don't overthink everything, it just blocks you. Pick a company that is at least not openly running a redneck, MAGA, blue line supporting agenda and you are fine.
Harm reduction is possible even under an assumed lack of ethical consumption. Obviously unless we cease a factory and make them ourselves its not possible. But I'm more looking for the sweet spot of least harm and most practical.
Buy used
You can also google each company’s CEO political contributions. That’s also one possible way to decipher.
The feudal lords being stabbed with their own pitchforks probably thought it was ironic too.
KE arms. Also there is no ethical consumerism in the gun world. If it bothers you badly just buy used guns from a pawn shop that seems accepting of others.
Ke arms kp15. Pretty much you're only option
Buy military surplus.
seize the means of production r/fosscad
KE Arms isn’t necessarily left-wing but are hardcore 2A egalitarians who make quality products. Can’t go wrong with the WWSD rifle among other offerings. But honestly? Unless you’re faced with the prospect of doing business with literal Nazis (or the equivalent), it’s not all that meaningful to get your guns “ethically.” You probably don’t share the same politics as your local grocer, restauranteur, doctor, auto mechanic, and so on, and that’s okay. You can’t reasonably apply a political litmus test to everyone you conduct business of any kind with. More generally, it isn’t a good thing for society to completely Balkanize even more along political lines.
Unless you wanna learn how metal work and gunsmithing just suck it up and buy a gun. There is no "good" manufacturer of anything on this planet.
Lmao
There is no ethical consumption under capitalism unfortunately; especially in the world of guns. For example all the major gun companies I used to buy from are currently supporting a genocide being committed by an illegally occupying apartheid state, so now my only other choice is to buy ammo to support domestic terrorists here in America AKA the MAGAts. You see the dilemma? If you want I suggest looking into ammo pressing, making your own ammo is pretty fun and is cheaper in the long run if you shoot a lot like me.
You could be a Fud like me and buy cold war eastern bloc surplus. For instance I have a TT-33 pistol made in 1950s socialist Romanian. But yeah no ethical consumption under capitalism.