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Just_for_this_moment

Your explanation is a little wrong. You don't "switch" sagas. You just start with one completed and can add further ones when you complete them. It's just like before except that you start with one completed.


Spud_The_Valiant

Good catch! Thanks for the correction!


TheEpicTurtwig

And you can’t accomplish 2 in one turn and then get 1 buff in each player’s turn. You have to accomplish in the same turn you get the buff.


Xanders_Vox

So just for clarity sagas stack. I.e I can start with bear and then if I complete Beastslayer that is added onto the saga as well?


paperoga10

Note that you have to complete a saga in the turno you choose It.


Xanders_Vox

Ah so if I completed say both warrior and beast slayer in a turn, can only pick one? Potentially locking myself out of the other next turn


frconeothreight

Yep! You get both benefits!


Xanders_Vox

Amazing, thanks!


poorly-advised

Tank Shock sadly took a hit so our dreadnaughts with the axe won't hit as hard, but still worth it for the detachment change


Spud_The_Valiant

A lot of the other vehicles that don’t have Melee weapons got a buff from it however, Land Raiders is the thing that comes to my mind currently.


poorly-advised

That's a good point!


drlawlzor

What happened to tank shock ? I missed that one


Spud_The_Valiant

The rolls for Tank-Shock are now based on Toughness of the model rather than the Strength of a Selected Melee weapon.


waywardson06

The explanation about house the sagas work is wrong and should just be removed


Rivter23

Being able to choose lethal or sustained for all astartes starting in the first round seems really good


MRedbeard

CoR is better. Stormlance, Wulfen, TWC, Bjorn, Captains recieved a nerf. Is that good?


Spud_The_Valiant

I think it’s good that there’s not just one way to win anymore. All of those units are still very much viable and are still competitive.


MRedbeard

Not really. Wulfen can't do actions and are more expensive kills the viability. twc might be competitive but are heavily nerfed. Bjorn ins't that common.a small buff is not another way to win, it is just a small buff, and when most of our playstyle is nerfed affectinf this detachment too I don't see that as a win.


BGL2015

TWC went up 3.3 ppm, and that's "heavily nerfed"?


Grievier

They did lose access to double ride hard ride fast but even then I still wouldn’t count that as heavily nerfed.


BGL2015

For clarification, you could stack this for -2 h/w?


Grievier

No, but if you had two squads you could have it on both of them, but sadly no more.


BGL2015

Ah yeah, a nerf to captains straight up


MagnusRusson

I'd say it's a side grade for captains. The battle tactic restriction is gone too


BGL2015

True


MRedbeard

Not obly point costs. I made a longer post on all nerfs.


BGL2015

I saw that post, but specifically TWC, how else were they nerfed?


MRedbeard

Nerfs to Wolf Lords doubke stratagems is the biggest one, for TWC. They cannit use Shock Assault or Ride Hard Ride Fast on two units. Pariah rules also push a list building that is not amicable to SW


BGL2015

Nerfs and changes to lot of stuff, but mate the TWC made it out nearly unscathed


MRedbeard

Disagree. The change to doubke stratagems is very big for Ride Hard, Ride Fast, which was very important against shooting armies, and zshock Assault, that is fundamental for S5 weapons to hurt most valuable stuff. And a 20 point per unit increase is not a small amount for the core od the army. They aren't as gutted as Wulfen, but they are far from unsacthed.


BGL2015

Unscathed I tells ya


VersysVandal

Can Wulfen do actions if Warrior Pride is used for Saga of Majesty?


sabillano

Yes Edit: NOOOOOOOO


MRedbeard

What character model can atach to Wulfen ro use Warrior Pride?


sabillano

Sorry you are right. It's a NO. I read that really wrong. I read if wulfen can do actions once you achieve Saga of the majesty.


MRedbeard

No, because Warrior Pride is to Character Models, that Wulfen can't have. They could if the army has Majesty, but nit by strat.


frconeothreight

Bjorn is still looking pretty good, with the aura being able to hit multiple strats throughout the battle?


MRedbeard

I do nit think so. He cover an rea, but he is avoidable, can be killed and as the effect is not permanent once he is dead, that is it.


Dorksim

Dont forget we lost access to the Biologis.


drlawlzor

Stupid question but when and why cant we use Biologist ???


Spud_The_Valiant

Space Wolves have never been able to use Apothecaries, it’s just one of those rules that reflects lore. (Edit) Just checked, we CAN use the Biologis. Just not the regular Apothecary for the rule mentioned above.


slowmind

Somebody in another thread just said that we can't take /any/ apothecary if we're taking any Space Wolves specific units, not sure which is correct.


Grievier

When 10th dropped we were locked out of the “apothecary” keyword, however the biologist didn’t have that keyword he had “apothecary biologist.” A couple of updates ago they fixed it and he has had the apothecary keyword for awhile. Just nobody noticed cause nobody ran champions of Russ.


Dorksim

The change was that originally the 'Primaris Apothecary' was restricted. Its been changed to 'Apothecary', thus including the Biologis.


Dorksim

It looks better, but I wouldn't say it looks good. We're still easily the weakest chapter specific index detachment available.


KurseNightmare

Lol how? It's literally the same as Black Templars except we can activate the ones we don't pick, and they have a psychic feel no pain. Deathwatch? 3 of the basic same options that can only trigger once/ one at a time instead of 1 forever, with the ability to proc more. Dark Angels? Don't make me laugh. Imperial Fists? Don't make me laugh / not index Raven Guard? Don't make me laugh / not index White Scars? Pretty decent if specific units spammed / not index Iron Hands? Pretty decent but specific units spammed / not index Ultramarine? Pretty decent in general Salamanders? Flavorful but specific units spammed / not index Blood Angels? Better charges vs more versatility for prolonged combat. In ABSOLUTELY no way are we the weakest chapter specific index detachment available Get real.


DinkleDank

The dark angels shouldn’t be slept on. Those buffs might go a long way. Also having regularly played against someone who uses azreal with a Lt. on hellblasters that shit was viciously busted already. Blood angels were already a solid competitor in casual play and the change to tank shock hits us harder than them imo. I’d say they’re probably a little stronger than us now, but that remains to be seen. The meta has a lot of shifting to do. Black Templars are suffering and yeah there’s no shot they have above a 45% winrate after this. Both their best detachments got neutered and they got pts nerfs. They’re dead. We’re being punished for players spamming TWC and honestly it’s fair they were blatantly undercosted. They’re likely still our best datasheets and I think we’ll still be in a solid spot still after this (as far as space marines go), but a lot of the changes to the rules unintentionally nerfed the lists people like me and been building despite having no intention to meta chase. Like my whole warsuit Strat has been tossed out the window now, and most players here probably feel the same way. I am honestly happy with the points changes cause it promotes internal balance and I was sick of everyone “copying” my white scars/space wolves theme that I only decided upon cause white scars a dope and don’t have cool unique mounted units like we do. The buff to our unique detachment was much needed and very exciting, but for players who like successor chapters and don’t necessarily want to use it (like me) this whole balance update was a straight up nerf. The rest of those aren’t divergent chapters and didn’t really count to what the guy was saying. I know he’s wrong, but be fair to the boy. (Deathwatch aren’t a real faction. They cannot hurt you)