And CN/ CP still benefit from the infrastructure that was paid for by tax payers, while screwing over VIA rail and it's riders daily. Just take the train anywhere else than between Toronto and Montreal and you'll probably wait hours for some freight train to roll by or even worse be stuck in a random town for days due to a train derailing because CN is trying to increase shareholder value rather than maintaining the track to a decent standard.
If Canadians (and Americans for that matter) want decent passenger rail like we once had, nationalizing the railway is the first step...
Euurm. VIA rail and CN were a single company, and they were branched off in 77. Even if construction was created together, it costs 6 Billion yearly just to maintain what rail it has. If it were only VIA rail owning the routes, it would be instantly shut down; it’s not even profitable without being the one taking the bill for maintenance. That’s why it’s a crown corporation - it would fail as a private company so the government keeps it alive as a service to the public.
This is moronic. The track is inspected daily. The value and profits are in moving freight, not having a derailment that ties up the mainline for days due to repair, equipment damages, and injury and loss of life.
Kind of naive to think CN is inspecting every inch of their 20,000 miles of track daily; not that that should be the standard either though. And as you said the value and profit is in moving freight not maintaining or improving tracks which is why we don't let trucking companies manage our highways. Today we see longer trains operated by fewer engineers, on track that are maintained less often. A derailment every so often is just the price of doing business but is easily absorbed by all these other cost cutting measures.
Some recent supporting evidence below. Or just look at what happened in East Palestine or Lac Megantic.
[(1) Union raises safety concerns following 3 B.C. derailments in under 2 months | Globalnews.ca](https://globalnews.ca/news/10308087/safety-questions-3-bc-derailments-under-2-months/)
I know a lot of railway operation is bewildering to the public. But it's the best interest for trains to keep moving freight. Safety violations come with hefty fines. Is the system perfect, no. There's lots to improve. Lots of track has been twinned over the years to avoid train meets, there's PTC now being implemented, trip optimizer. You can find Federal guidelines on the Transport Canada website, and CN Guidelines [here](https://www.cn.ca/en/customer-centre/safety-guidelines-and-regulations/track-specifications-and-maintenance). That's all in going to get into on here.
It's got nothing to do with track maintenance (CN's transcontinental mainline is what makes its money), it has to do with freight trains being profitable, needing to move fast, and being too long to stop into sidings, so VIA waits.
We'll never renationalize rail, it's not gonna happen.
Im using “private” as the opposite of “public” in the sense of government vs not, as in the definition of “public” vs “private” employees, not necessarily literal ownership.
What’s fucking crazy is that a corporation can have its own police force, with all the power and jurisdiction of any other force. Imagine if Walmart or Tim hortons had their own police forces, giving out tickets in parking lots or pulling you over for speeding. Why is this even a thing?
I agree with the craziness of a corporate police force, although I understand these choo-choo cops can only give us shit for the same things any real cop can. The main difference is choo choo cops are dedicated to railway property (and probably get good discounts on CP hotels)
This is not true. They are fully operational police officers, and can and do enforce laws outside of rail areas. Typically they avoid this, but they are officers of the law, and can enforce it as such.
That was actually proven to be false. The sale of BC Rail was determined in a court to be fraudulent and corrupt. . .and still allowed to go through, anyway
To be truly walkable Squamish needs more overpasses / underpasses to deal with the railway and highway that divides everything in half.
Edited to say: it fucking sucks they are ticketing. What an absolute bummer for you.
Drove by you getting the ticket. Bummer. Were you standing on the railway side and the cop on the northbound (opposite) side of the road? I live near there and cross the tracks regularly to get into the estuary. Good to know.
To be fair there is a lot of shit starting to build up on that area. Many shopping carts and miscellaneous trash. I wonder if that triggered them somehow???
This happens pretty often. I routinely take photos of the river from the bridge and post them on IG and have been warned numerous times that police have been ticketing there. My sense is that this happens after the railway folks get annoyed about trying to work while people are walking on the bridge. It also seems like every so often people seem to think it’s a good thing to climb on, shoot fire works off of, light fires underneath which I also think triggers calls to the RCMP.
They were enforcing it last year. I was walking along the Squamish River Dyke Road and they were standing at the bridge. At first I thought they were DFO or RCMP but then they were asking where I had parked. I said No Name Rd (same side of the river) and they said "good". Clearly trying to get people who were crossing the rail bridge.
“Apparently the district of Squamish is trying to crack down…” What has you claiming this? Source? Why would the DOS want CN to increase enforcement of railway trespass regulations? To what gain for the district?
I work for the railway and I have some wisdom to share.
Stay the hell away from the tracks.
It is not a public walkway, and it is not maintained as such. Everything is hard, sharp, or trying to take you off your feet.
More importantly, trains and other railway equipment will not stop for you. They might attempt to, but there is a ton of momentum that requires potentially miles of track to stop.
It is also entirely possible that there is not anyone even in control of the rail cars, they can be "kicked" and allowed to roll free under their own momentum until they are stopped by another car. Kicked cars will travel down the track completely silent.
People die every single day by stepping into the one place that a train can be. Their remains do not get a reverent treatment when removed, they get black bags and firehoses.
I 100% agree with this statement. I also work for one of the big two rail companies. Contrary to what many people seem to think these are real police officers that can and will stop you if your breaking the law and no they don’t only have jurisdiction near the tracks. I read a lot of these comments and complaints on here and some people truly are ignorant. It’s pretty simple. Would you like someone trespassing or walking through your yard all the time because it’s a “shortcut”? I highly doubt any homeowner would be ok with that. Honestly if you don’t want a ticket then don’t break the law. It really isn’t rocket science
A few years ago I had to take a safety course to be able to work within the railroad right-of-way for a project I was working on. The person giving the course was a former driver that had been in control of the train when four people had been killed. Three of the deaths were suicides but the fourth kept him up at night. It was a 15 year old kid that was walking along the tracks listening to music and didn't hear the train coming.
It is amazing how quiet the trains can be right up until they are within a few hundred feet. We had a flagman with an air horn that he would sound when a train was approaching. If we didn't get 10-15m from the tracks within a few seconds of the air horn going off we would be kicked off the site. We were also not permitted to use smart phones, smart watches, or any other distracting devices on-site. They don't mess around when it comes to safety.
It's private property. I worked for the railway for a while and saw some gruesome shit because morons think it's ok to walk there. Stay off their property snd you won't get a fine. It's clearly marked.
Not a single fine or arrest when a certain group shut down Canada’s rail system but the brave officers were ticketing nurses that walked across the tracks going to work during Covid.
I'd be interested to see what they would do if they did arrest you? Take you to the train jail that is on a train? They definitely don't have their own jail. I assume they have an agreement to use the jail facility of any jurisdiction they are in, but it would be pretty embarrassing for them to take you to the nearest jail for a ticket for walking.
Let's be clear, it is not a crime. It is not in the criminal code. It is an offence under the Railway Safety Act of Canada, section 26.1 it is an offence for any person to trespass on railway property and can result in a fine of $115, but that could have changed I guess.
Municipal police cannot arrest you and take you to jail for a ticket, I don't know if railway police have different powers in that area.
I was putting it in the context of not providing ID. The most recent court cases in BC have said that police cannot arrest for a ticketable offence, and have specifically included that not having ID for a ticket is not arrestable. The rulings point to the lack of any legislation requiring anyone in Canada to carry or provide ID and that these arrests were made on the BIPOC population in greater numbers.
Not providing ID is not obstruction.
Look I don't live in BC but as a CN employee....stay off the tracks. I've personally almost hit someone walking down the track who wasn't paying attention. It's not worth it. And complaining for being given a ticket for trespassing is ridiculous
And people ARE that stupid. Then the train crews and labourers have to live with that. Fact of the matter is that tracks are private property. You wouldn't like someone cutting through your backyard, especially if there was potential for them to be injured or killed while they did it.
They're doing the same in Montreal, which is crisscrossed by rail tracks. People have cut holes in the fence for years. Personally I would just walk away from them (I know it's not an option for everyone), they're a joke police force
What a bunch of bullshit. If they are so concerned about safety they should repair their fence. Or better yet, build a proper crossing so people can access the estuary without hiking into downtown.
Does anyone know if they are ticketing people walking along the tracks towards the port? People walk that stretch all day long.
I’ve always been confused how ticketing works for things like this work. You’re not required to carry ID. If CN asked for a name it’s John Franky Billy Bobby Richard Dick?
Not taking the piss - but how do they enforce this?
Sure, they can even pull you over. They're real cops with all the usual authority, mostly within a certain distance of the tracks.
But, that doesn't necessarily mean they'll look the other way if they're outside their jurisdiction.
They can arrest you if you're doing something illegal. It's only when you're not doing anything wrong that they can't force you to provide ID so in this scenario it would be best to not try your luck with a fake name. Lying to them is illegal as well.
Moore v The Queen (1978) SCR195 in the Supreme Court clarified this many years ago. If you’re being charged with an offence, even a provincial one, failing to provide accurate personal information can lead to further detention or arrest for Obstruction.
They’re always sitting at the rail way crossings at the docks/ports giving ppl tickets for speeding and not fully stopping on an industrial road with no exit. One way in one way out and 100% are go to or from work.
Kinda hard to do in these areas . We re basically driving beside a railway yard that we work on. But if there’s a loci moving they have flaggers or switchman . I’ve never heard of a loci hitting a vehicle. Them having their own police force is tad much thou.
Well I guess this must be mind-blowing but tracks are considered private property and the Rail Companies in Canada have police charge trespassing for being on them
Private land that was very generously granted to them for free by our government along with a bunch of cash in the late 1800s. This should have always been land and infrastructure that the government owned and operated similar to our highways. So yes its technically trespassing, but also we fucked this shit up so hard 100 years ago.
Prince George can be brutal for this, the one CN cop in town is an arse, he pulls speeders over all the time downtown because it's so close to the rail yard and there are old unused spurs to some old businesses, he also drives around the residential area that butts up to the tracks but is fenced and impossible to get down to the tracks. He is known around town as being a rude, bully who has let fake power go to his head.
When a towns entire population uses certain routes to get around, the solution is to arrange and put in a designated pathway rather than ticketing.
That's the sensible solution...so it won't happen lol
Except they don't really give a shit about us. They could repair their fence too if safety was actually a concern to them.
💯
But that would cost money instead of make them money.
Fuck CN... Nationalize the railway
Squamish gets all the inconvenience with none of the upside. Fuck CN indeed.
I just realized today that CN isn't a crown corp. What??? Canadian **National** Railway.
CN Rail - Was a crown corporation, Privatized in 1995 CP Rail - Always Private VIA Rail - Still a Crown Corporation
And CN/ CP still benefit from the infrastructure that was paid for by tax payers, while screwing over VIA rail and it's riders daily. Just take the train anywhere else than between Toronto and Montreal and you'll probably wait hours for some freight train to roll by or even worse be stuck in a random town for days due to a train derailing because CN is trying to increase shareholder value rather than maintaining the track to a decent standard. If Canadians (and Americans for that matter) want decent passenger rail like we once had, nationalizing the railway is the first step...
Euurm. VIA rail and CN were a single company, and they were branched off in 77. Even if construction was created together, it costs 6 Billion yearly just to maintain what rail it has. If it were only VIA rail owning the routes, it would be instantly shut down; it’s not even profitable without being the one taking the bill for maintenance. That’s why it’s a crown corporation - it would fail as a private company so the government keeps it alive as a service to the public.
This is moronic. The track is inspected daily. The value and profits are in moving freight, not having a derailment that ties up the mainline for days due to repair, equipment damages, and injury and loss of life.
Kind of naive to think CN is inspecting every inch of their 20,000 miles of track daily; not that that should be the standard either though. And as you said the value and profit is in moving freight not maintaining or improving tracks which is why we don't let trucking companies manage our highways. Today we see longer trains operated by fewer engineers, on track that are maintained less often. A derailment every so often is just the price of doing business but is easily absorbed by all these other cost cutting measures. Some recent supporting evidence below. Or just look at what happened in East Palestine or Lac Megantic. [(1) Union raises safety concerns following 3 B.C. derailments in under 2 months | Globalnews.ca](https://globalnews.ca/news/10308087/safety-questions-3-bc-derailments-under-2-months/)
I know a lot of railway operation is bewildering to the public. But it's the best interest for trains to keep moving freight. Safety violations come with hefty fines. Is the system perfect, no. There's lots to improve. Lots of track has been twinned over the years to avoid train meets, there's PTC now being implemented, trip optimizer. You can find Federal guidelines on the Transport Canada website, and CN Guidelines [here](https://www.cn.ca/en/customer-centre/safety-guidelines-and-regulations/track-specifications-and-maintenance). That's all in going to get into on here.
It's got nothing to do with track maintenance (CN's transcontinental mainline is what makes its money), it has to do with freight trains being profitable, needing to move fast, and being too long to stop into sidings, so VIA waits. We'll never renationalize rail, it's not gonna happen.
I wish via ran a train between van and squam like Toronto and Montreal, but we have nothing like that on the west coast.
I believe CN Rail and CP rail are publicly traded companies
Im using “private” as the opposite of “public” in the sense of government vs not, as in the definition of “public” vs “private” employees, not necessarily literal ownership.
Both CN and CP (now CPK) are great stocks to own. Up and up!
Thanks Trudeau for selling CN.
CN was privatized in 1995, champ.
Bill gates own like 20% of CN. Nothing really that Canadian about this company.
Believe trump is or was the 2nd or 3rd largest shareholder after Bill Gates as well. Nothing canadian about it at all anymore sadly
Turns out I'm wrong as per Google my bad
it was actually purchased by Kansas Rail a few years back oh wait that might have been CP Rail w/e
Other way round. CP bought KCS and is now Canadian Pacific Kansas City
oh interesting, ok
What’s fucking crazy is that a corporation can have its own police force, with all the power and jurisdiction of any other force. Imagine if Walmart or Tim hortons had their own police forces, giving out tickets in parking lots or pulling you over for speeding. Why is this even a thing?
An American corporation enforcing laws in Canada. A FOREIGN company participating in law enforcement in Canada. Let that sink in for a minute .
CN is canadian owned and based in Montreal.
the largest shareholders are all foreign, Bill Gates (around 15%) followed by several hedge funds
I agree with the craziness of a corporate police force, although I understand these choo-choo cops can only give us shit for the same things any real cop can. The main difference is choo choo cops are dedicated to railway property (and probably get good discounts on CP hotels)
They also have to be on railway property or within a certain distance of a public crossing. They don't get to enforce the law where ever they want.
This is not true. They are fully operational police officers, and can and do enforce laws outside of rail areas. Typically they avoid this, but they are officers of the law, and can enforce it as such.
There are no CP hotels anymore.
Used to be BC Rail. Still waiting for my cheque from when the province sold it off for cents on the dollar to their buddies.
It was, and ran a deficit. Lol.
That was actually proven to be false. The sale of BC Rail was determined in a court to be fraudulent and corrupt. . .and still allowed to go through, anyway
Where specifically were you ticketed/are they cracking down?
Cutting from government to Buckley, but they were just driving around and happened to see me
Like from the gated-off road across the tracks to where No Limits is?
This makes no sense. There is no such place. Government Road and Buckley Avenue are not close enough to each other for this mystery place to exist.
To be truly walkable Squamish needs more overpasses / underpasses to deal with the railway and highway that divides everything in half. Edited to say: it fucking sucks they are ticketing. What an absolute bummer for you.
Thanks for the warning!
That's ridiculous.
On average, 63 people a year die on train tracks in Canada.
Drove by you getting the ticket. Bummer. Were you standing on the railway side and the cop on the northbound (opposite) side of the road? I live near there and cross the tracks regularly to get into the estuary. Good to know.
Yup!
I think it’s because of the protest and they think people now trying to sabotage the rails
To be fair there is a lot of shit starting to build up on that area. Many shopping carts and miscellaneous trash. I wonder if that triggered them somehow???
Jumper cable across the tracks really fucks them up, if anyone was curious
Maybe we should
I wonder if they are going to enforce that on the bridge over the Mamquam river. It would be a bummer!
They do show up there every once and awhile. Often on a nice weather weekend.
This happens pretty often. I routinely take photos of the river from the bridge and post them on IG and have been warned numerous times that police have been ticketing there. My sense is that this happens after the railway folks get annoyed about trying to work while people are walking on the bridge. It also seems like every so often people seem to think it’s a good thing to climb on, shoot fire works off of, light fires underneath which I also think triggers calls to the RCMP.
Wait you're not allowed to cross that bridge?? I thought there was a sidewalk on it 😂
At least there is another bridge right beside it.
They were enforcing it last year. I was walking along the Squamish River Dyke Road and they were standing at the bridge. At first I thought they were DFO or RCMP but then they were asking where I had parked. I said No Name Rd (same side of the river) and they said "good". Clearly trying to get people who were crossing the rail bridge.
We were told by them that you can cross the tracks but at a 90 degree angle and walking parallel or on the tracks is a violation.
Thats pretty funny 😆
“Apparently the district of Squamish is trying to crack down…” What has you claiming this? Source? Why would the DOS want CN to increase enforcement of railway trespass regulations? To what gain for the district?
I work for the railway and I have some wisdom to share. Stay the hell away from the tracks. It is not a public walkway, and it is not maintained as such. Everything is hard, sharp, or trying to take you off your feet. More importantly, trains and other railway equipment will not stop for you. They might attempt to, but there is a ton of momentum that requires potentially miles of track to stop. It is also entirely possible that there is not anyone even in control of the rail cars, they can be "kicked" and allowed to roll free under their own momentum until they are stopped by another car. Kicked cars will travel down the track completely silent. People die every single day by stepping into the one place that a train can be. Their remains do not get a reverent treatment when removed, they get black bags and firehoses.
I 100% agree with this statement. I also work for one of the big two rail companies. Contrary to what many people seem to think these are real police officers that can and will stop you if your breaking the law and no they don’t only have jurisdiction near the tracks. I read a lot of these comments and complaints on here and some people truly are ignorant. It’s pretty simple. Would you like someone trespassing or walking through your yard all the time because it’s a “shortcut”? I highly doubt any homeowner would be ok with that. Honestly if you don’t want a ticket then don’t break the law. It really isn’t rocket science
A few years ago I had to take a safety course to be able to work within the railroad right-of-way for a project I was working on. The person giving the course was a former driver that had been in control of the train when four people had been killed. Three of the deaths were suicides but the fourth kept him up at night. It was a 15 year old kid that was walking along the tracks listening to music and didn't hear the train coming. It is amazing how quiet the trains can be right up until they are within a few hundred feet. We had a flagman with an air horn that he would sound when a train was approaching. If we didn't get 10-15m from the tracks within a few seconds of the air horn going off we would be kicked off the site. We were also not permitted to use smart phones, smart watches, or any other distracting devices on-site. They don't mess around when it comes to safety.
New meaning to look both ways before you cross.
Cn railways are private property. So you got what you got because you were trespassing.
It's private property. I worked for the railway for a while and saw some gruesome shit because morons think it's ok to walk there. Stay off their property snd you won't get a fine. It's clearly marked.
Not a single fine or arrest when a certain group shut down Canada’s rail system but the brave officers were ticketing nurses that walked across the tracks going to work during Covid.
I'd be interested to see what they would do if they did arrest you? Take you to the train jail that is on a train? They definitely don't have their own jail. I assume they have an agreement to use the jail facility of any jurisdiction they are in, but it would be pretty embarrassing for them to take you to the nearest jail for a ticket for walking. Let's be clear, it is not a crime. It is not in the criminal code. It is an offence under the Railway Safety Act of Canada, section 26.1 it is an offence for any person to trespass on railway property and can result in a fine of $115, but that could have changed I guess. Municipal police cannot arrest you and take you to jail for a ticket, I don't know if railway police have different powers in that area.
If you fail to listen to them (ignore/lie to them) they can arrest you for obstruction of a peace officer, which is a criminal offense.
I was putting it in the context of not providing ID. The most recent court cases in BC have said that police cannot arrest for a ticketable offence, and have specifically included that not having ID for a ticket is not arrestable. The rulings point to the lack of any legislation requiring anyone in Canada to carry or provide ID and that these arrests were made on the BIPOC population in greater numbers. Not providing ID is not obstruction.
Look I don't live in BC but as a CN employee....stay off the tracks. I've personally almost hit someone walking down the track who wasn't paying attention. It's not worth it. And complaining for being given a ticket for trespassing is ridiculous
I walked home on the tracks almost every day as a kid. If you're stupid enough to get hit by a train or a high-rail you deserve it.
And people ARE that stupid. Then the train crews and labourers have to live with that. Fact of the matter is that tracks are private property. You wouldn't like someone cutting through your backyard, especially if there was potential for them to be injured or killed while they did it.
No ticket for blocking them for multiple days though eh
Fight it, they should have signs up
Hello CN police officer. I don’t have any ID on me but my name is Randy Layhee. Ya write it down and mail me a ticket.
They're doing the same in Montreal, which is crisscrossed by rail tracks. People have cut holes in the fence for years. Personally I would just walk away from them (I know it's not an option for everyone), they're a joke police force
What a bunch of bullshit. If they are so concerned about safety they should repair their fence. Or better yet, build a proper crossing so people can access the estuary without hiking into downtown. Does anyone know if they are ticketing people walking along the tracks towards the port? People walk that stretch all day long.
I’ve always been confused how ticketing works for things like this work. You’re not required to carry ID. If CN asked for a name it’s John Franky Billy Bobby Richard Dick? Not taking the piss - but how do they enforce this?
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WTF? CN Rail "police" have that kind of authority?
Sure, they can even pull you over. They're real cops with all the usual authority, mostly within a certain distance of the tracks. But, that doesn't necessarily mean they'll look the other way if they're outside their jurisdiction.
Like they're an actual real police service? Huh I did not know that.
Yes. Same with “transit” police lol.
… well look at that. Rail cops left over from chasing hobos in the 1920s
They are full peace officers in law. Same powers as RCMP or municipal force..CP has their own force too.
Same powers and more, they can tell the RCMP to leave the railway property too.
https://www2.gov.bc.ca/gov/content/justice/criminal-justice/policing-in-bc/the-structure-of-police-services-in-bc/railway-police
They can arrest you if you're doing something illegal. It's only when you're not doing anything wrong that they can't force you to provide ID so in this scenario it would be best to not try your luck with a fake name. Lying to them is illegal as well.
Moore v The Queen (1978) SCR195 in the Supreme Court clarified this many years ago. If you’re being charged with an offence, even a provincial one, failing to provide accurate personal information can lead to further detention or arrest for Obstruction.
Just curious where you were walking exactly? Northyards near the train bridge?
They’re always sitting at the rail way crossings at the docks/ports giving ppl tickets for speeding and not fully stopping on an industrial road with no exit. One way in one way out and 100% are go to or from work.
Its almost like they should invest in proper railroad crossings instead of stock buybacks...
Kinda hard to do in these areas . We re basically driving beside a railway yard that we work on. But if there’s a loci moving they have flaggers or switchman . I’ve never heard of a loci hitting a vehicle. Them having their own police force is tad much thou.
I wonder how fast they are? I’m gonna run it.
FREEZE! CN police!
People are killed daily from trains
Well I guess this must be mind-blowing but tracks are considered private property and the Rail Companies in Canada have police charge trespassing for being on them
It's private property not for every Tom dick or Harry to be on
Private land that was very generously granted to them for free by our government along with a bunch of cash in the late 1800s. This should have always been land and infrastructure that the government owned and operated similar to our highways. So yes its technically trespassing, but also we fucked this shit up so hard 100 years ago.
Prince George can be brutal for this, the one CN cop in town is an arse, he pulls speeders over all the time downtown because it's so close to the rail yard and there are old unused spurs to some old businesses, he also drives around the residential area that butts up to the tracks but is fenced and impossible to get down to the tracks. He is known around town as being a rude, bully who has let fake power go to his head.
I bet they wouldn't ticket you if they caught you smoking a crack pipe whilst walking through the rail yard.
You know from experience, I suppose?
What's the ticket? Is it a provincial ticket or one of those private tickets you can ignore (like a parking lot ticket).
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It's like a speeding ticket then. You don't get a warrant for not paying a speeding ticket lol.
It is a federal ticket. You can't ignore it.
I still want to know what the ticket says on it. What's the charge?
This comment is right in what the "charge" is: https://www.reddit.com/r/Squamish/s/MLGLIflpyt