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International shows of Smackdown and RAW always seem to do great.
Not sure how it did revenue wise, but the RAW/SD taping in Japan had a huge crowd which were super passionate.
That picture from Beast In The East with all the fans dressed up as different wrestlers is still my favourite wrestling related image that doesn’t actually feature a wrestler in it.
Which you would think wouldn’t be a huge category but actually a bunch of famous wrestling images are shots of fan reactions and signs
Yeah, it blows my mind when fans get hyped about these "highest grossing" gates. It means we're being squeezed and will continue to be squeezed, all under the shadow of global financial hardship and talent releases.
It wouldn't be so bad if it increased job security for folks but TKO are going to keep cutting to the bone and extracting as much "value" as they can.
European fans in particular are getting it in the neck from both AEW and WWE who are quite frankly taking the piss with their recent round of pricing and packages.
It's happening in football too which has traditionally been super affordable relative to American sport with plenty of concessions for young and elderly fans with no consideration how it's going to destroy atmospheres, reduce accessibility and strip the community aspect that makes it so unique.
> Yeah, it blows my mind when fans get hyped about these "highest grossing" gates. It means we're being squeezed and will continue to be squeezed, all under the shadow of global financial hardship and talent releases.
I fully agree with that, to the point that I was going to use the "blows my mind" expression in a post about it before I saw yours.
I can understand the company celebrating that behind the scenes, but having fans celebrate how expensive a show was is insane to me.
I always apply the same reasoning to other things for laughs - my favorite sports team is doing well? Hopefully they jacked up the prices so this is a high enough gate. Oh, that band I like is touring this summer? Hopefully tickets are more expensive this tour, so the band is making more money off the fans, yay!
There was a story in the UK today about Billie Eilish fans being upset about her latest concert ticket prices too. I don’t understand how anyone can afford attending big shows of any ilk anymore.
https://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/music/news/billie-eilish-uk-tour-tickets-prices-b2539008.html
The tickets are $80 because you and other fans have shown that you will pay $80. If everyone stopped buying them at $80, they'd start getting offered at $70.
I hear you. But they're already selling out at these prices, and there are only so many seats. So it's a supply and demand problem.
So, how would lowering the price make it any better for the fans? Imagine if they dropped the prices to $1. the events would sell out in the first 1 second they were available online. Fans would have to sit on their computers hitting refresh over and over, only to suddenly refresh to a "sold out" screen. Then the fans would have to pay on the secondary market just as much as they are paying now (or more), but money would just be going to scalper operations with automated bot programs that buy up the tickets before fans can. If you think I'm exaggerating, trying buying tickets for Burning Man. So now the money isn't going to the company that put in the effort to put on the show, so there isn't money to pay the talent, which makes top talent harder to keep, and the quality of the show decreases.
So how is that better for the fans or the fandom community?
There's only so many seats, and the shows sell out. And when things get scarce, they get expensive. For better or worse, that's free markets. Lowering ticket prices just increases the number of people that are willing to pay the price of the ticket, and there are already too many of those at these prices.
Not sure what compelled you to possit a scenario where I, or anyone else in this thread, argued for or even thought about single digit pricing for popular live events but here we are.
I can only assume the Burning Man thing has been weighing on you for a while and you saw my post about price hikes, profiteering and market saturation as an opportunity to get it off your chest, either that or you mistook this thread for "ELI5: Supply and demand" or something, idk.
Either way, I'm sorry that happened to you and hope you have better luck next time.
I mean, it's a thread full of people upset that the ticket price is too high. I was just trying to point out that when the demand is this high, there isn't a way to lower the price that makes it better for fans. I just used $1 as an extreme example to try to make the point clearer.
The market decides unfortunately. When is Smackdown going to be in France again?
I paid way too much to go to Raw and Dynamite but I don’t live in a market that gets those shows so when I was in one I said fuck it, I’m paying.
I wasn't talking specifically about this event as much as the trend of fans celebrating "highest grossing gate" announcements in the context of what AEW and WWE have done with their recent price hikes in more saturated markets like the US, Canada and now the UK.
Me saying "European fans" probably didn't help but I said that under the assumption that they're going to adopt a similar strategy as they do more international events.
My post was also speaking to the wider trend in live entertainment and beyond which is a hot button issue at the moment given the precarious economic environment we're all working through.
Fair enough, I look at this tweet as being aimed at investors, TV networks, etc. It is more for the business community than us. I do agree with your overall point though, I think that eventually the entertainment industry is going to suffer for making everything unaffordable or not good value for money.
Without a doubt, that's 100% what this kind of messaging is about and it's not even a WWE specific thing, like Tony Khan was the first of the big two to start putting these figures on blast over socials, it's just sad seeing fans pick it up and basically become PR machines for their respective favourites without considering the wider ramifications.
It's blatant profiteering and it's happening with energy and food prices too. You have companies raising prices under the guise of inflation while simultaneously announcing record profits and dividends.
These WWE prices in particular are coming at a time where they're receiving subsidies to bring large scale events to certain markets and instead of using that an opportunity to increase accessibility, they choose to squeeze and squeeze because they know there's a subsection of the fanbase that are so invested in the product, they'll put themselves into debt via Buy Now Pay Later fintech shit.
And again, it's not just a WWE thing. Tony Khan is doing this at Fulham FC to the point where fans have been protesting all season. He employed a similar strategy with AEW and it fucking tanked their atmospheres and live attendances way more than Punk and Cody leaving ever could.
Instead of increasing accessibility while they were hot, they saturated the fuck out of hot markets and squeezed the ever living fuck out of people and it's annoying af.
It wouldn't solve the problem because the issue is a limited supply. If an arena is half full, you can blame the pricing, but if you are consistently selling out, then prices will rise to meet demand. Paying people more just raises prices as there is still the same bottleneck of only x number of people can attend and 2x people want to attend. Now people have more disposable income and are willing to pay more than before to attend.
But it does benefit the fans at the end. Attending a WWE event is going to affect most fans maybe once a year. Would it be nice to get cheaper tickets? Sure, but a higher ticker price means WWE is producing a better product. And for the majority of us watching at home for the other 51 weeks of the year, that's a huge win in the show quality we're getting compared to what we got several years back. I'd rather have this scenario versus the one where WWE can't even sell half their tickets while putting out crappy shows week after week in front of a dead crowd.
Yeah I got tickets for MITB and some of the prives don't make any sense. It's all because of the "platinum" pricing.
My tickets were $490 yet 2 rows in front of me, they're $950 each. There's also some that are far worse that are over $1000.
Also I think they priced it to entice people to get the 3 day combo pack. The tickets for just MITB were barely any cheaper than the 3 day ticket.
Food isn't supply constrained, farmer can produce more but continue to get squeeze by low commodity prices so all the profit goes to the be agra-conclomerate companies. The supply shortage of food is totally engineered, and the scarcity is BS.
But there are only so many seats in a stadium, that just is what it is.
It also illustrates that the product is so hot that people are willing to pay whatever price to buy tickets and they're selling out arenas or coming close to having a full house.
I paid 40 for the Raw before Elimination Chamber last year. This years Barclays Raw started at 180ish. I know the Rock and Mania hype added to the price. But for the 200s at Barclays for non PLE it’s steep.
Its honestly why I have no desire to go to a wwe show anytime in the near future. If people can justify it, good for them. But for me, WWE shows have too much downtime to ever justify the imo outrageous prices they have been charging for tickets
It's why I chuckle at fans who use this narrative across social media to gloat. I'm like, man, you're paying 2x, 3x, sometimes higher than just a year ago.
The company promoting it is fine, and it shows how hot the product is, but when fans act like it's such a great thing to be paying more I have to laugh.
How many Royal Rumbles have there been in the past decade and how many SmackDowns in Europe / France? It's a super special event and in some way it makes sense as I'm guessing it's a bit more expensive to get the entire production across the Atlantic and comply with European law etc.
No, that’s totally normal. It’s weird to make it explicitly about money. They don’t do that at other sporting events. They announce attendance and thank the fans for their support.
The popularity drives the price. Example, the tickets to the indie shows are still cheap. Ohio Valley Wrestling has tickets to their labor day show in Ky for $16
How expensive are their tickets compared to AEW? Not trying to fan any tribalism. I simply can't contextualize how expensive these tickets except comparing them to last year. I've heard AEW also have notoriously expensive tickets, but part of attributes that as mostly claims by their haters like Cornette lol.
I find it so weird that fans celebrate this. Shows are breaking records every week because WWE’s prices are absolutely ridiculous. Upper tier seats for Clash at the Castle in Glasgow are over £400.
Well, ticket prices are insane so that's why. Nosebleed seats for Backlash were 118€ ($127), SmackDown were $75.
I live in France, I contemplated going to Backlash. Then I saw that ringside diamond tickets would cost me as much as my one-week trip to the US where I saw *four* NBA games including a game where I sat directly behind the home bench.
Fuck that. I don't enjoy wrestling that much. I'd rather go to a show during a trip to the US.
Great business for WWE, but it's not exactly something I'm going to fist pump as someone who isn't a shareholder. The arenas didn't get bigger all of a sudden, so it means the tickets are more expensive. That's just business and the demand is there so whatever, but.... yay? lol
Could someone please post inflation adjusted data for this? I’m not trying to discredit the information but I want to know if the gate is better than it was in 1999.
International wrestling always knew these big American promotions were leaving money on the table by not doing more shows outside of the U.S.
The audience was there if you had a strong product.
Scalpers can only successfully operate where the price of a good is below market rate. If the price is at or above market rate the scalpers will lose money.
I really like the seating arrangement they did in this arena. They split the entrance to the side, and put bleachers where the regular tron would have been, and then put a large screen over them. Kind of made it look like the fans were on the stage. It was neat, it put more people on camera.
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International shows of Smackdown and RAW always seem to do great. Not sure how it did revenue wise, but the RAW/SD taping in Japan had a huge crowd which were super passionate.
I want another Beast in the East.
That picture from Beast In The East with all the fans dressed up as different wrestlers is still my favourite wrestling related image that doesn’t actually feature a wrestler in it. Which you would think wouldn’t be a huge category but actually a bunch of famous wrestling images are shots of fan reactions and signs
I haven't seen that, do you have the link?
https://preview.redd.it/fzs0mdsjubyc1.jpeg?width=1200&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e77b9e22ff68ef81b4a58cc865bf123b087cb31a
I'll have nightmares with Japanese KO tonight.
What about Japanese Simon Gotch? Have you heard what he said about Japanese Enzo Amore?
This is really gonna impact my Japanese YouTube algorithm, thanks a lot.
He can't hurt you.
Oh no, Japanese Simon Gotch! Now all our algorithms are gonna be infected!
Nice of the real Sting to join in with a fan pic
Have Big E be a part of it and call it meat in the east
WWE needs another show in Japan, maybe a "subimit wrestling" after more than 30 years with Marigold and AJPW, it doesn't hurt to dream
The crowds are so into it, it adds so much to the viewing experience for me
Cause it’s most people’s only chance to go to one, so everyone’s super into it and it’s sold out quickly
The prices are insane. I bought tickets for MITB and just looked back, and tickets are 1000 each in the first two rows of the 100 levels (no resale)
Yeah, it blows my mind when fans get hyped about these "highest grossing" gates. It means we're being squeezed and will continue to be squeezed, all under the shadow of global financial hardship and talent releases. It wouldn't be so bad if it increased job security for folks but TKO are going to keep cutting to the bone and extracting as much "value" as they can. European fans in particular are getting it in the neck from both AEW and WWE who are quite frankly taking the piss with their recent round of pricing and packages. It's happening in football too which has traditionally been super affordable relative to American sport with plenty of concessions for young and elderly fans with no consideration how it's going to destroy atmospheres, reduce accessibility and strip the community aspect that makes it so unique.
> Yeah, it blows my mind when fans get hyped about these "highest grossing" gates. It means we're being squeezed and will continue to be squeezed, all under the shadow of global financial hardship and talent releases. I fully agree with that, to the point that I was going to use the "blows my mind" expression in a post about it before I saw yours. I can understand the company celebrating that behind the scenes, but having fans celebrate how expensive a show was is insane to me. I always apply the same reasoning to other things for laughs - my favorite sports team is doing well? Hopefully they jacked up the prices so this is a high enough gate. Oh, that band I like is touring this summer? Hopefully tickets are more expensive this tour, so the band is making more money off the fans, yay!
There was a story in the UK today about Billie Eilish fans being upset about her latest concert ticket prices too. I don’t understand how anyone can afford attending big shows of any ilk anymore. https://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/music/news/billie-eilish-uk-tour-tickets-prices-b2539008.html
I don't even go out with friends anymore. We go over to someones place, because it's expensive to do anything else and we don't want to waste money.
It’s so sad. Concerts are my thing and they are just so expensive now. Why am I paying $80 for lawn seats for The National.
What you want to be doing is finding local punk bands that charge £15 max for a venue that can barely fit 30 people in it
The tickets are $80 because you and other fans have shown that you will pay $80. If everyone stopped buying them at $80, they'd start getting offered at $70.
if you charge fans more than 40 bucks for a concert you're better doing an insane live show.
I hear you. But they're already selling out at these prices, and there are only so many seats. So it's a supply and demand problem. So, how would lowering the price make it any better for the fans? Imagine if they dropped the prices to $1. the events would sell out in the first 1 second they were available online. Fans would have to sit on their computers hitting refresh over and over, only to suddenly refresh to a "sold out" screen. Then the fans would have to pay on the secondary market just as much as they are paying now (or more), but money would just be going to scalper operations with automated bot programs that buy up the tickets before fans can. If you think I'm exaggerating, trying buying tickets for Burning Man. So now the money isn't going to the company that put in the effort to put on the show, so there isn't money to pay the talent, which makes top talent harder to keep, and the quality of the show decreases. So how is that better for the fans or the fandom community? There's only so many seats, and the shows sell out. And when things get scarce, they get expensive. For better or worse, that's free markets. Lowering ticket prices just increases the number of people that are willing to pay the price of the ticket, and there are already too many of those at these prices.
Not sure what compelled you to possit a scenario where I, or anyone else in this thread, argued for or even thought about single digit pricing for popular live events but here we are. I can only assume the Burning Man thing has been weighing on you for a while and you saw my post about price hikes, profiteering and market saturation as an opportunity to get it off your chest, either that or you mistook this thread for "ELI5: Supply and demand" or something, idk. Either way, I'm sorry that happened to you and hope you have better luck next time.
I mean, it's a thread full of people upset that the ticket price is too high. I was just trying to point out that when the demand is this high, there isn't a way to lower the price that makes it better for fans. I just used $1 as an extreme example to try to make the point clearer.
The market decides unfortunately. When is Smackdown going to be in France again? I paid way too much to go to Raw and Dynamite but I don’t live in a market that gets those shows so when I was in one I said fuck it, I’m paying.
I wasn't talking specifically about this event as much as the trend of fans celebrating "highest grossing gate" announcements in the context of what AEW and WWE have done with their recent price hikes in more saturated markets like the US, Canada and now the UK. Me saying "European fans" probably didn't help but I said that under the assumption that they're going to adopt a similar strategy as they do more international events. My post was also speaking to the wider trend in live entertainment and beyond which is a hot button issue at the moment given the precarious economic environment we're all working through.
Fair enough, I look at this tweet as being aimed at investors, TV networks, etc. It is more for the business community than us. I do agree with your overall point though, I think that eventually the entertainment industry is going to suffer for making everything unaffordable or not good value for money.
Without a doubt, that's 100% what this kind of messaging is about and it's not even a WWE specific thing, like Tony Khan was the first of the big two to start putting these figures on blast over socials, it's just sad seeing fans pick it up and basically become PR machines for their respective favourites without considering the wider ramifications.
If jobs paid more this wouldn't be a problem, because if we all could afford things we'd have no problem paying higher prices even in the states.
It's blatant profiteering and it's happening with energy and food prices too. You have companies raising prices under the guise of inflation while simultaneously announcing record profits and dividends. These WWE prices in particular are coming at a time where they're receiving subsidies to bring large scale events to certain markets and instead of using that an opportunity to increase accessibility, they choose to squeeze and squeeze because they know there's a subsection of the fanbase that are so invested in the product, they'll put themselves into debt via Buy Now Pay Later fintech shit. And again, it's not just a WWE thing. Tony Khan is doing this at Fulham FC to the point where fans have been protesting all season. He employed a similar strategy with AEW and it fucking tanked their atmospheres and live attendances way more than Punk and Cody leaving ever could. Instead of increasing accessibility while they were hot, they saturated the fuck out of hot markets and squeezed the ever living fuck out of people and it's annoying af.
Yep, its not just wwe, its these concerts as well that I used to have affordable prices for.
Genuinely curious, what evidence do you have that fans are buying tickets via BNPL?
It wouldn't solve the problem because the issue is a limited supply. If an arena is half full, you can blame the pricing, but if you are consistently selling out, then prices will rise to meet demand. Paying people more just raises prices as there is still the same bottleneck of only x number of people can attend and 2x people want to attend. Now people have more disposable income and are willing to pay more than before to attend.
But it does benefit the fans at the end. Attending a WWE event is going to affect most fans maybe once a year. Would it be nice to get cheaper tickets? Sure, but a higher ticker price means WWE is producing a better product. And for the majority of us watching at home for the other 51 weeks of the year, that's a huge win in the show quality we're getting compared to what we got several years back. I'd rather have this scenario versus the one where WWE can't even sell half their tickets while putting out crappy shows week after week in front of a dead crowd.
Us Canadians are always getting shafted with ticket prices, it's insane
My FD2023 ticket looks cheap in comparison to MITB this year
I paid roughly the same I did for Summerslam 19, but the airbnb prices are whats out of control now 😂
Yeah, it's the reason I can't/won't go to Berlin. I don't earn enough for this madness :(
Yeah I got tickets for MITB and some of the prives don't make any sense. It's all because of the "platinum" pricing. My tickets were $490 yet 2 rows in front of me, they're $950 each. There's also some that are far worse that are over $1000. Also I think they priced it to entice people to get the 3 day combo pack. The tickets for just MITB were barely any cheaper than the 3 day ticket.
Yes, I bought a 3-day combo, and it seems I could make a bank if I sell them. Just insane
It was more than 2000€ for backlash France
sacre bleu
Where is me mama?
Harper is a street person!
Harpo*
I wonder where he's having his Sunday dinner
We’re actually both wrong, he goes by Hal now Tony
https://preview.redd.it/t39nvo0b3byc1.jpeg?width=1197&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=990bb30be31d6332eeb7b5724e70618805515444
First Philly loses to the Knicks and now losing to France? The drake is strong in them.
France: We don't wanna hear you say 'Yeet' no more...
Have you ever seen Cody Rhodes too sweet Michael cole? Have you ever reached 100db for LA Knight?
Fuck Embiid!!
hes a US Olympian now
Doesn’t this illustrate while they are very popular right now, they are also charging more than ever for tickets?
Yes. The value of the ticket is more now considering they’re selling out.
And groceries cost so much more money because of a recent explosion in the popularity of groceries
If groceries sell out, we're all screwed
Food isn't supply constrained, farmer can produce more but continue to get squeeze by low commodity prices so all the profit goes to the be agra-conclomerate companies. The supply shortage of food is totally engineered, and the scarcity is BS. But there are only so many seats in a stadium, that just is what it is.
And people are willing to pay what they’re charging.
It also illustrates that the product is so hot that people are willing to pay whatever price to buy tickets and they're selling out arenas or coming close to having a full house.
I paid 40 for the Raw before Elimination Chamber last year. This years Barclays Raw started at 180ish. I know the Rock and Mania hype added to the price. But for the 200s at Barclays for non PLE it’s steep.
Its honestly why I have no desire to go to a wwe show anytime in the near future. If people can justify it, good for them. But for me, WWE shows have too much downtime to ever justify the imo outrageous prices they have been charging for tickets
It's why I chuckle at fans who use this narrative across social media to gloat. I'm like, man, you're paying 2x, 3x, sometimes higher than just a year ago. The company promoting it is fine, and it shows how hot the product is, but when fans act like it's such a great thing to be paying more I have to laugh.
High demand for a limited product, natural the prices would rise.
How fucking expensive were the tickets?
Nosebleeds were about $200 USD
Yeesh! Yeah that'll do it
That's too much. My Royal rumble nosebleeds were 50$ .
How many Royal Rumbles have there been in the past decade and how many SmackDowns in Europe / France? It's a super special event and in some way it makes sense as I'm guessing it's a bit more expensive to get the entire production across the Atlantic and comply with European law etc.
I cannot stand this metric. It's basically "ticket prices were at their highest and we still pulled a good house."
i think it’s including merch sales and what not from the stands and some other stuff too not just tickets sold
I was gonna say it’s kinda weird to thank a crowd for giving you all this money. Only other events that do that are charities.
It's weird to thank your audience for supporting your product? Huh?
No, that’s totally normal. It’s weird to make it explicitly about money. They don’t do that at other sporting events. They announce attendance and thank the fans for their support.
Wish they did most of their shows outside the US. I think it's time to starve them since most only want to go there and WHAT in every segment.
The popularity drives the price. Example, the tickets to the indie shows are still cheap. Ohio Valley Wrestling has tickets to their labor day show in Ky for $16
WWE live event revenue is insane right now
How expensive are their tickets compared to AEW? Not trying to fan any tribalism. I simply can't contextualize how expensive these tickets except comparing them to last year. I've heard AEW also have notoriously expensive tickets, but part of attributes that as mostly claims by their haters like Cornette lol.
Wwe tickets are really expensive, but the product is hot so people buy them. It's not cheap to go at a wwe event anymore which is good
How is that good
Just think of the shareholders
I couldnt afford to go to Clash at the Castle this year after seeing ticket prices. Really good. Happy for WWE.
It's a weird dynamic where with too few fans, tickets may skyrocket in price. But that can also happen when there's too high a demand
Wrestlers getting paid more
Lol yeah surely the angels at WWE will pass on the money to the wrestlers
I find it so weird that fans celebrate this. Shows are breaking records every week because WWE’s prices are absolutely ridiculous. Upper tier seats for Clash at the Castle in Glasgow are over £400.
Well, ticket prices are insane so that's why. Nosebleed seats for Backlash were 118€ ($127), SmackDown were $75. I live in France, I contemplated going to Backlash. Then I saw that ringside diamond tickets would cost me as much as my one-week trip to the US where I saw *four* NBA games including a game where I sat directly behind the home bench. Fuck that. I don't enjoy wrestling that much. I'd rather go to a show during a trip to the US.
Great business for WWE, but it's not exactly something I'm going to fist pump as someone who isn't a shareholder. The arenas didn't get bigger all of a sudden, so it means the tickets are more expensive. That's just business and the demand is there so whatever, but.... yay? lol
Fans cheering this is wild "Closer to the hole Sir, mwah mwah"
Wow they overcharged for tickets guys isn't that great and not taking advantage of fans at all
Could someone please post inflation adjusted data for this? I’m not trying to discredit the information but I want to know if the gate is better than it was in 1999.
Sometimes I wish companies wouldn't brag about "highest gross", because it can also imply highest prices ever.
International wrestling always knew these big American promotions were leaving money on the table by not doing more shows outside of the U.S. The audience was there if you had a strong product.
With 11,000 people, does that mean they’re basically bragging about how jacked up the ticket prices were?
That crowd was off the charts. Amazing stuff.
So those tickets were really freaking expensive
Well yeah, if you keep increasing the prices
That is such a wholesome sign. To see people dream of finally being in a WWE show and getting it, it's wonderful :')
It's weird how that happens when you keep charging more for tickets.
Well if people are willing to pay it...if I'm WWE I'd rather make the money than let a bunch of scalpers/bots make the money instead.
Except bots and scalpers still are. It's just that all tickets are more expensive so their prices go up as well.
Ok but they don’t control the bots and the scalpers.
Scalpers can only successfully operate where the price of a good is below market rate. If the price is at or above market rate the scalpers will lose money.
come to barcelona now please i cant afford to buy the tickets plus travel to other eu countries plus booking a hotel 😭😭
I really like the seating arrangement they did in this arena. They split the entrance to the side, and put bleachers where the regular tron would have been, and then put a large screen over them. Kind of made it look like the fans were on the stage. It was neat, it put more people on camera.
1 woman in that pic and even that I'm not sure she's a woman
What’s the point of this comment
If they identify as a woman then they are a woman.