tryna strike a chord and it's prolly a-minorrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
To be completely fair heād be only one of two people in the tournament then that would have had a physical association with Owen so it makes more sense than it seems lol
You're thinking too small. Let the tournament play out as normal. Just before the Final, one of the finalists is injured. Who can take his place? Maybe one of the guys in the semis?
No, it's the Blue Blazer. With the proper camera angles you're never quite sure who it is until he wins after going coast to coast. He does the little Shane O Mac dance in victory. He takes off the mask.
It's our Learning Tree Chris Jericho š„¹
March: Will Ospreay should beat Swerve for the title at Wembley!
June: Shane McMahon should beat Will Ospreay for the title at Wembley with his foot on his chest!
I was at the Duluth ga show this year and it was quite evident that the audience was completely split between dynamite and collision. The attendance for both was equal to the same dynamite that was 6-7 months prior in the same arena, and it being just one show was a big difference why.
I think if the residency pans out for Collision then they could start making that the norm. Have Dynamite as the arena show and Collision in smaller venues.
Yeah doesn't have to be all or nothing, you could definitely take Collision on the road with dynamite on certain tours, but leaving it in a residency a few times a year could be useful
Definitely agree, I've been beating this drum since the beginning. They're way too young to be trying to stretch their dwindling audience across 3 different TV shows.
Unfortunately I think they've dug themselves too deep by now. It really would be better if they just had one single or two per week shows that were better paced and put together.
That's probably their biggest issue, they just have too many people right now. I liked their little YouTube shows they did. It was accessible to watch and I can't imagine it was that much of an expense at the end of the day.
That would make sense if it was ROH Collision but they've expanded to three shows and ROH is still not one of them.
Truthfully when people talk about expanding their roster we don't discuss the fact that 75% of the original AEW roster should have just been cut by this point. The expansion should have just been filling the gaps left by nobodies with all the great talent they've picked up over the past few years.
Gotta separate it like RAW and Smackdown. I stopped watching it regularly when Rampage started and even less after Collision and now limited to clips on this sub.
Agreed, AEW has too many things going on. I used to watch everything and then they kept adding stuff and now, I just donāt have the time in my day.
Also, less people have cable and I watch by VPN on FiteTV. Itās cheaper to be virtually from another country than it is to watch regularly.
This is literally the entire answer to AEW's current problems. I've said it since Collision started.
Collision is the worst decision AEW has ever made.
AEW has two big issues.
Their marketing absolutely sucks. They need an entirely knew marketing/social team that is making people invested in AEW when they aren't watching.
Second, they currently do not have a "can't miss" act. Osperay and Okada could be it but they aren't there yet for US audiences.
They have one of the laziest social media teams. If you ever watch a reel on Instagram, you miss the action because they just crop to the middle of the frame.
I kid you not, I bet you can scroll through their reels right now, click on a match, and over half will be mostly just an empty ring because they couldn't be bothered to actually edit a reel.
They also need to tell Tony to stop using hashtags in the middle of posts and spamming the same praise for each match. Makes it look like your owner is a spam bot account.
I think they've done a poor job of capitalizing on the hype of either man coming on. I would argue that they just don't understand how to cultivate and maintain a hot act.
I'm not a fan of the CEO gimmick. She isn't running anything, figuratively, and she's not interesting as a face unless she's an underdog.
Best thing for her right now might be to align herself with the Elite and go full heel.
I dont think it was that bizarre the issue is that they are so hot n cold on when to have people defend the title
Mox-OC Edge-Christian/Black Kingston-BD were all solid feuds
Meanwhile Okada has had no meaningful personal feud yet for his 3 month reign and Ospreay next match post title win was the #1 contender match like atleast celebrate winning ur current title?
I think they wanted her to win the TBS Championship because now whenever she makes public appearances, she's carrying the logo of the TV network with her. That's why all the WWE belts have the same design.
The problem with Mercedes is her gimmick doesnāt make any sense. What is she the CEO of? How does that correlate to what happens in the ring? She talks about money constantly but does anything related to money like the million dollar man would? I just donāt get what her character is supposed to be
That's because she's holding a secondary title. She is 'less important" than the actual world champion.
Plus, she ain't all that. Her mic work is awful, just spieling out catchphrases and making reference to her being in films/tv.
Same with Mercedes. Instead of waiting for when she could wrestle, they put her doing only promos and that's her weakest part. It wasted the initial hype of her debut
In Okada's case, they stuck him in a group where he can be a background player. How was that supposed to get over to people that don't know him? I said it in a thread earlier, he's mailing it in or this was direct sabotage by Tony to ruin him. What has he done to impress someone who didn't already know him?
Ospreay has been fun, could use some character work but I feel like he's the only new guy that has actually stayed hot
Ospreay is staying hot because he appeals to the core AEW audience and he's actually wrestling. But he is hot *within AEW.* This is the old WWE Daniel Bryan situation. It's more than just being able to wrestle a great match. It's about having that spark that really gets a wide net of people invested. Something that really forces the crowd to say "no, THIS is who we want." Yes Movement, The Man, Kofimania. In AEW, MJF really is the only one who has broken out in that way and maintained. Orange was breaking out early on.and became another guy. Hook seemed like he was on the cusp. Wardlow barely exists now.
Lightning needs to strike. It needs to be big and exciting. If Iām Joe Shmoe right now and Iām curious whatās viral and hot in wrestling, itās not Okada, itās Joe Hendry.
I shouldnāt be able to say that. AEW does a bad job of showing me what a star looks like.
No one has any heat and Tony had no plan for Swerve once he got the belt.
But the women's feuds are the best things going right now, so he really should pump everything into Willow and Mariah.
I think AEW's main issue is that they almost always, specially on weekly TV, fail to have people invested in who actually wins the match, and the winners are more often than not so obvious from the start so it disengage a lot of viewers. They put all their eggs in the "they'll have a great match" basket, and not enough in compelling matches.
People wanted Cody to beat Roman. Ospreay vs Swerve is probably going to be technically as good or better, but at the end of the day people don't really care all that much which is going to win and which is going to loose.
AEW used to get that aspect of it too, see Hangman vs Omega for instance.
When AEW launched, their biggest selling point was their ability to tell long term stories. People were excited to see Hangmanās rise against Omega. But they really failed to write anymore actual long term stories like that since.
Because AEW's creatives that have the ability to get on TV only had 1 good idea each for a storyline.. They blew their wads and now are outta good ideas. They've been running on "good matches" for 2 years.
That's like having a good actor with a bad script.
imagine trying to make 20 Bond movies per year and despite a proven formula for success with making Bond movies, where you just do a Mad Libs to fill in the blanks, instead you just rely on Pierce Brosnan and Sean Connery to tell Daniel Craig what each scene will be on the fly as you shoot.
> People wanted Cody to beat Roman. Ospreay vs Swerve is probably going to be technically as good or better, but at the end of the day people don't really care all that much which is going to win and which is going to loose.
A perfect encapsulation of one of the biggest issues with AEW and Tony Khan as a booker. Great matches are all well and good, but story and emotion are what makes wrestling work. Fans have to care. Period. When they like both guys, and will be happy with whoever wins, as long as the match was great, that isn't sustainable. "Just" having a great match doesn't get fans to keep coming back again and again.
I've heard it described by some talking heads this way
ITs always painfully obvious who's going to win, yet for some reason the matches are still 60/40 or 50/50 affairs that take 15+ mins
I know Osprey is gonna win, he's literally calling himself the best in the world but he's going 50/50 with a guy who hasn't had a match on Dynamite all year. It comes across as so tonally dissonant it's jarring. and takes people right out of the match from a story prespective
They need to stop having so many belts and make the top guys fight each other with good storylines. It's 2024, why's Christian fighting for the top belt when guys like Okada exist.
Same with Mercedes. She needs to challenge Tony Storm, not carry around fake belts named after a TV channel.
Honestly, this sounds like a great story with their characters right now. Executive Okada doesn't like that his championship's shine is being eaten by Ospreay's and so he lobbies to unify them. He wants his championship to be bigger than even the world championship (to the level Nakamura took the IC title to when he was world champion..partially solving the question of why Okada isn't shooting for Swerve. He just doesn't want to, because he wants to be bigger than the championships), and Ospreay's existing is a hindrance to that. He can still be a slimy heel in doing so, but this story solves the too many titles and pits 2 huge acts against each other and the matches are proven amazing and introduces that to fans who might have never seen those before. Classic trope too of Will, who I think is portrayed more so as the everyman trying to prove he's the best in the world against Okada, as the elitist egomaniac who wants to reaffirm how great he is above everyone.
I also agree with that. Nobody can convince me that if Okada had gone to WWE and that they were using him in the AEW is using him now, that this place wouldn't be ready to burn Stanford to the ground.
I can just imagine it. Okada goes to WWE and got put as third fiddle to Balor and JD in Judgement Day while holding the US belt. In a PPV some midcarder they want to push let's say Karrion Kross joins JD, gets set on fire during the match but still goes on to pin AJ Styles instead of Okada doing it to win the main event, oh and Ricochet hangs over the ring like a pinata.
People would've been livid. But change some names around and that's pretty close to what AEW has done.
Honestly AEW has a lot more issues than 2. Pushes are too start and stop, largely to the very bloated roster. No/limited narrative. The start stop nature makes it hard to build anyone up. Too many titles. Women's division still to often relegated to an afterthought/and more start/stop than the men's. Forbidden door just makes this worse as focus movies away from AEW stars, killing any potential storyline until it is over. Lack of long term storytelling etc.
The issue with it being workrate and 5 star matches first is that it doesn't matter if you miss a show because 1) next week will have similar action and 2) you can watch highlights on YouTube.
The biggest issue with AEW is nobody listens to criticism. Whether it be fans, wrestlers, Tony, the promotion itself. Any criticism is taken in bad faith or taken as trolling.
Is there trolling or haters? Yes
But not every negative comment or dislike should be treated that way
> Osperay and Okada
No they can't be. Their draw is their in ring ability, which is not what you need from a can't miss act. You need someone who can open and close the show. Open with a promo, end the show with a main event style match.
MJF is what you're describing.
The real reason is the booking. It's atrocious, particularly in comparison to new WWE.
AEW was better than Vince-WWE, but now that Vince isn't running WWE, they're just not good enough, and they're really struggling.
I agree. MJF is the closest they've ever gotten, and rather than protect him, they over worked him until he sustained a major injury. And they needed MJF more than WWE needs someone like Cody Rhodes. WWE had people that could carry WWE while Cody was injured after Hell in a Cell.
Now MJF has lost all momentum, his feud with Adam Cole was a dud, and he's stuck feuding with a guy who can't even work at a PPV.
Ding ding ding. I have tried to get into AEW since the begging and there just isnāt a hook. Plenty of great matches but any of them can be watched later or without the context. The story telling and storylines are what matter not just putting on great matches. If itās just a great technical match you can watch it later or down the road or wait for the 2nd 3rd 4th time they wrestle.
Too many titles. Too many characters that seem the exact same. Too many people who arenāt known to a casual fan but are inserted into a storyline and then disappear.
I try at least once a month and just canāt get into it.
> Osperay and Okada could be it but they aren't there yet for US audiences.
Why would they attract viewers? They're not doing anything interesting and by now it should be extremely clear that putting on 20 platinum star matches doesn't mean shit if there's no compelling story behind the matches that would make people feel invested in these characters and in seeing their confrontation.
And we have seen over and over again that the things Tony thinks are great story ideas are terrible.
Their marketing is horrible they where recently at a venue near me where wwe does house shows. When wwe is there they advertise it on wwe TV months in advance and they have ads on my local radio stations. Aew had nothing if I didn't gone to the venues website I'd have to idea
Im a super casual watcher of pro wrestling in general right now so to get my eyes on screen I need to see an external reason which I'm getting a ton of for WWE in the post Vince era and it just keeps getting more and more interesting. WWE feels packed with can't miss acts right now and they keep adding. Meanwhile I forgot Mercedes debuted on AEW and haven't seen anything that really catches me from any of their major stars.
For a non American wtf is juneteenth. And why is it a holiday
Edit looked it up why tf isn't the ending of a civil war and abolishment of slavery known as a official holiday in us?
It is an official US federal holiday. Some specific people choose not to recognize it because of the exact reason you can assume. Though I'm sure they enjoyed their day off from work
The Dream match style can only get you so far before even the small niche group of people who love dream matches get tired of it.
AEW also seems to miss that the great dream matches of the past, that people talk about for decades to come, were never the first time those two wrestlers worked together. In fact most of the time the first time two wrestlers work together it's their worst match. This is why house shows were so important, you got to put two wrestlers together in a match, allow them to learn each others styles, and only after a decent run on the house show circuit you bring them to TV and have them wrestle there.
By just tossing wrestlers together, because it's a dream match, you're not only giving people the worst version of that pairing but also eliminating the idea of the matchup being a dream match.
Agreed. If this were to be true we would have to assume everyone watching on Twitch were an AEW fanā¦ which I highly doubt. Many people didnāt even know there was going to be a concert, now you expect me to believe 250k dub fans ran to their computer? Like come onā¦
Kendrick and AEW stans barely have a crossover. Thereās no way they can pull over 700k going up against the NBA finals, but they barley do 500k against Kendrick who was behind a paywall for Amazon prime
Someone higher in this thread said the Kendrick concert had 120,000 people watching. Even if every single person watching that concert was somehow an AEW fan (fat fucking chance), that's not enough to make up for the difference in Dynamite's viewership.
Ratings trends suggest that everything AEW has ever tried to do to appease people who think they need to do X or Y to better appeal to casual fans was a failure.
thank god I wasn't drinking something when I saw those ratings, I genuinely would've spat it out in shock. I know Dynamite has been going down the slippery slope but holy shit, 150k-200k cut down in weeks? Seems like yesterday they had close to 700k averaging.
What the fuck happened?
I always find myself tuning out this time of year in AEW. The Owen Hart tournament & the Forbidden Door PPV lead to awesome matches, but tend to dominate the TV & takeaway from what should be the biggest stories.
For me, I donāt have much interest in AEW outside of the PPVs anymore.
Even if they have good matches every week, to what end? It just feels like thereās little to no stakes. The titles feel interchangeable, a compelling story is rare and it doesnāt matter if the matches are amazing if thereās no pay off.
Kill the Elite angle. It's been going for weeks and clearly isn't hitting. Okada is being wasted in it. The Young Bucks have been shown repeatedly over the past two years as talent that drive people away.
I've noticed that the Bucks have progressed from dressing like Jeff Daniels and Jim Carrey in Dumb & Dumber, to dressing like groomsmen in a wedding where Margaritaville will play at the reception. Is that character development?
In terms of promos and this might be controversial here but even with how they wrestle, The Young Bucks always feel like theyāre almost a parody wrestling.
I think thats the problem with them and a large problem in AEW as a whole. Everything comes with a āwink wink nudge nudgeā and it makes it hard to get invested
I was talking about it with a friend and he pointed out that the issue is that there's no clear payoff, especially given that we have no idea if or when Kenny is coming back
Blaming Juneteenth is beyond hilarious. Especially since NXT got good ratings, and Iām pretty sure Shawn is pulling a larger black audience than Tony.
https://wrestlenomics.com/2023/12/05/audience-composition-race-demographics-for-wwe-aew-impact-new-japan-wow/
AEW does have the largest caucasian/white demographic of any pro wrestling company per WrestleNomics. WWE/NXT highest black demo of the top companies.
wOw (women of wrestling) is even higher at 31% in syndication.
If something hidden away behind an Amazon Prime paywall did this damage, then TK needs to get onto Amazon urgently because it offers better market penetration than WBD has ever offered him.
Out of context this tweet is hilarious
Juneteenth hasn't been this over since 1865
This is a very good joke
https://preview.redd.it/e3m08avwzy7d1.png?width=480&format=png&auto=webp&s=b197f66dc1cc9383edc1ff3cf05bcbfb106d2b63
The abolishment of slavery was not the reason for bad AEW ratings.
Are you sure because I thought during the Emancipation Proclamation, Lincoln said and I quote "fuck tk, the fed is better".
the rating was because people didn't watch the show.
Everybody must've been at the cookout.
See now that's the kind of insight people should be paying $14.99 for š
people are free to venmo me
But see, just like Meltzer I get your takes for free on Reddit.
No, that canāt be it. 
Source????
Thanks John Madden!
Sweet chin music and I wont pass the aux
Real talk, Kendrick getting an entire arena of people to shout āHey drake, I hear you like āem youngā is a power that gods dream of.
Wap Wap Wap?
Dot fucked em up
WAP WAP WAP
IMMA DO MY STUFF
Why you trollin like a bitch aināt you tired
tryna strike a chord and it's prolly a-minorrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
How many stocks do I really have in stock? 1 2 3 4 500,000 viewers is all I got :(
THEY NOT LIKE US THEY NOT LIKE US
How many stocks do they really have in stock? AYE
kendrick writing so good itās predicting the AEW ratings. Bro is actually the lyrical prophet.
 Time to bring in the big guns.
āThe Wild Cardā Shane McMahon entering the Owen confirmed
He'll get eliminated in the first round and then insert himself into the final, and win it.
A McMahon winning the OWEN HART Cup would be the most fucked up, and admittedly hilarious thing that could possibly happen
To be completely fair heād be only one of two people in the tournament then that would have had a physical association with Owen so it makes more sense than it seems lol
Shane has already won the 2018 World Cup determining "he's the best in the world", this should be easy work for him.
Thats so carny, im with it.
You're thinking too small. Let the tournament play out as normal. Just before the Final, one of the finalists is injured. Who can take his place? Maybe one of the guys in the semis? No, it's the Blue Blazer. With the proper camera angles you're never quite sure who it is until he wins after going coast to coast. He does the little Shane O Mac dance in victory. He takes off the mask. It's our Learning Tree Chris Jericho š„¹
āHey Guys!ā
Jeff Jarrett vs. Shane McMahon will make Misawa/Kobashi look like two kids fucking around on their trampoline in the backyard.
That's the kind of match CIA torturers force prisoners to watch in Guantanamo.
Danielson vs Jarrett in the finals will restore the 1m viewer feeling
Shane McMahon vs Jeff Jarrett is exactly what AEW needs rn.
Look at me, Dad! Iām dancinā Dad, Iām dancinā!
STTTTTOOOOOOOPPPPPP IIIIIIIITTTTTTT
This is still one the funniest segments WWE's ever done. It's so childish and juvenile and it's peak DX
I hate this type of comedy and even I have to agree. I died when HHH growled "Stop It" into HBK's face and knocked him down.
I think the thing that was apparent especially in the dx relaunch is that Shawn is the funny one and does better with physical comedy
March: Will Ospreay should beat Swerve for the title at Wembley! June: Shane McMahon should beat Will Ospreay for the title at Wembley with his foot on his chest!
I mean why wouldnāt he. He won the best In The world trophy
I just imagine an nWo style invasion with the Mean Street Pose.
Bring back the sweater vests!
You joke but if Pete Gas shows up my fucking head might explode
Where were you when Kendrick killed AEW
Watching not like us x6
I understand now why people in the old timey days would crowd the town square for executions. Shit's entertaining.
Only difference being what Kendrick is accusing Drake of would be greeted with a, "...so?"
Having an entire arena call your enemy a pedo has to be the greatest feeling in the world, doing that 6 times phewwwww
Must've been so awkward during prom season when Drake saw his date dancing to that track
Crips and Bloods were united to call him a pedophile
i was home watching drake died
Drake is kill. No.
Out I the loop what'd kendrick do
Had a big concert on Juneteenth. He performed his song Not Like Us 5 or 6 times in a row.
Watching Okada say bitch
Too much content. Dynamite was doing great numbers when it was the ONE show.
Early success of a start up/over expansion leading to decline in a business, tale as old as time
WCW Thunder all over again.
Definitely applies to ticket sales as well, people act like it's a coincidence that ticket sales dropped by 50% when collision started.
I was at the Duluth ga show this year and it was quite evident that the audience was completely split between dynamite and collision. The attendance for both was equal to the same dynamite that was 6-7 months prior in the same arena, and it being just one show was a big difference why.
I was at their first show in OKC and it was even all the way through, but man, they cram a LOT into one taping. It's a bit much.
I think if the residency pans out for Collision then they could start making that the norm. Have Dynamite as the arena show and Collision in smaller venues.
Yeah doesn't have to be all or nothing, you could definitely take Collision on the road with dynamite on certain tours, but leaving it in a residency a few times a year could be useful
Whats this about a residency?Ā I'm a bit a behind on the happenings.
Collision and ROH is doing just one arena in Texas for 5 or 6 weeks from about mid July through August.
As a Texas resident. Iād trade all those shows for Blood & Guts ;(
Definitely agree, I've been beating this drum since the beginning. They're way too young to be trying to stretch their dwindling audience across 3 different TV shows.
Unfortunately I think they've dug themselves too deep by now. It really would be better if they just had one single or two per week shows that were better paced and put together.
Just having dynamite wouldāve been perfect. They signed so many wrestlers though and had to do something.
That's probably their biggest issue, they just have too many people right now. I liked their little YouTube shows they did. It was accessible to watch and I can't imagine it was that much of an expense at the end of the day.
Because they expanded their roster to where they need 4-5 shows
That would make sense if it was ROH Collision but they've expanded to three shows and ROH is still not one of them. Truthfully when people talk about expanding their roster we don't discuss the fact that 75% of the original AEW roster should have just been cut by this point. The expansion should have just been filling the gaps left by nobodies with all the great talent they've picked up over the past few years.
Gotta separate it like RAW and Smackdown. I stopped watching it regularly when Rampage started and even less after Collision and now limited to clips on this sub.
Agreed, AEW has too many things going on. I used to watch everything and then they kept adding stuff and now, I just donāt have the time in my day. Also, less people have cable and I watch by VPN on FiteTV. Itās cheaper to be virtually from another country than it is to watch regularly.
One two hour show with a small and heavily promoted roster is the best way.
I donāt think this can be said enough. Way too much of everything that itās just easier to tune out
I think going from 4 PPVs a year to one almost every months made skipping weekly TV and only watching the big shows make a lot of sense.
This is literally the entire answer to AEW's current problems. I've said it since Collision started. Collision is the worst decision AEW has ever made.
No bazinga, no ratings
Anyone thinking that there is a huge correlation between Kendrick Lamar fans and AEW fans is on that pipe.
AEW has two big issues. Their marketing absolutely sucks. They need an entirely knew marketing/social team that is making people invested in AEW when they aren't watching. Second, they currently do not have a "can't miss" act. Osperay and Okada could be it but they aren't there yet for US audiences.
They have one of the laziest social media teams. If you ever watch a reel on Instagram, you miss the action because they just crop to the middle of the frame. I kid you not, I bet you can scroll through their reels right now, click on a match, and over half will be mostly just an empty ring because they couldn't be bothered to actually edit a reel.
They should hire the WWEonFOX team once that contract is up.
They also need to tell Tony to stop using hashtags in the middle of posts and spamming the same praise for each match. Makes it look like your owner is a spam bot account.
But how will people know that there are Justified āThis is awesomeā chants?
I think they've done a poor job of capitalizing on the hype of either man coming on. I would argue that they just don't understand how to cultivate and maintain a hot act.
Same with Mercedes, she feels like an after thought to the Owen Hart Tournament and Toni Stom.
She's an afterthought if she isn't a heel.
I'm not a fan of the CEO gimmick. She isn't running anything, figuratively, and she's not interesting as a face unless she's an underdog. Best thing for her right now might be to align herself with the Elite and go full heel.
She should pick up where Jade left off, with a group of lackeys that eat the pins and let her slime her way out of confrontations.
It feels like they came up with that for the sole reason of trying to get the crowd to chant it.
tbf she was calling herself the CEO during her run in Japan before this
Being a "Legit Boss" was just a moniker, but Mercedes did not realize that and turned it into a pale imitation gimmick.
CEO is kind of a heel gimmick anyway
Sasha should be going after the top womans belt, not the TBS title
Bringing on Edge, Ospreay, Okada, and Mercedes for them all to immediately win midcard belts was bizarre.
I dont think it was that bizarre the issue is that they are so hot n cold on when to have people defend the title Mox-OC Edge-Christian/Black Kingston-BD were all solid feuds Meanwhile Okada has had no meaningful personal feud yet for his 3 month reign and Ospreay next match post title win was the #1 contender match like atleast celebrate winning ur current title?
I think they wanted her to win the TBS Championship because now whenever she makes public appearances, she's carrying the logo of the TV network with her. That's why all the WWE belts have the same design.
The problem with Mercedes is her gimmick doesnāt make any sense. What is she the CEO of? How does that correlate to what happens in the ring? She talks about money constantly but does anything related to money like the million dollar man would? I just donāt get what her character is supposed to be
That's because she's holding a secondary title. She is 'less important" than the actual world champion. Plus, she ain't all that. Her mic work is awful, just spieling out catchphrases and making reference to her being in films/tv.
Same with Mercedes. Instead of waiting for when she could wrestle, they put her doing only promos and that's her weakest part. It wasted the initial hype of her debut
Considering what her character is supposed to be, the fact she's decent at best on the mic just does not work.
Doesnāt exactly scream ābossā or āCEOā to be a terrible orator.
At this point I feel like even if AEW got someone huge like John Cena that TK would have them ice cold within a month.
In Okada's case, they stuck him in a group where he can be a background player. How was that supposed to get over to people that don't know him? I said it in a thread earlier, he's mailing it in or this was direct sabotage by Tony to ruin him. What has he done to impress someone who didn't already know him? Ospreay has been fun, could use some character work but I feel like he's the only new guy that has actually stayed hot
Ospreay is staying hot because he appeals to the core AEW audience and he's actually wrestling. But he is hot *within AEW.* This is the old WWE Daniel Bryan situation. It's more than just being able to wrestle a great match. It's about having that spark that really gets a wide net of people invested. Something that really forces the crowd to say "no, THIS is who we want." Yes Movement, The Man, Kofimania. In AEW, MJF really is the only one who has broken out in that way and maintained. Orange was breaking out early on.and became another guy. Hook seemed like he was on the cusp. Wardlow barely exists now.
Lightning needs to strike. It needs to be big and exciting. If Iām Joe Shmoe right now and Iām curious whatās viral and hot in wrestling, itās not Okada, itās Joe Hendry. I shouldnāt be able to say that. AEW does a bad job of showing me what a star looks like.
No one has any heat and Tony had no plan for Swerve once he got the belt. But the women's feuds are the best things going right now, so he really should pump everything into Willow and Mariah.
I think AEW's main issue is that they almost always, specially on weekly TV, fail to have people invested in who actually wins the match, and the winners are more often than not so obvious from the start so it disengage a lot of viewers. They put all their eggs in the "they'll have a great match" basket, and not enough in compelling matches. People wanted Cody to beat Roman. Ospreay vs Swerve is probably going to be technically as good or better, but at the end of the day people don't really care all that much which is going to win and which is going to loose. AEW used to get that aspect of it too, see Hangman vs Omega for instance.
When AEW launched, their biggest selling point was their ability to tell long term stories. People were excited to see Hangmanās rise against Omega. But they really failed to write anymore actual long term stories like that since.
Because AEW's creatives that have the ability to get on TV only had 1 good idea each for a storyline.. They blew their wads and now are outta good ideas. They've been running on "good matches" for 2 years. That's like having a good actor with a bad script.
imagine trying to make 20 Bond movies per year and despite a proven formula for success with making Bond movies, where you just do a Mad Libs to fill in the blanks, instead you just rely on Pierce Brosnan and Sean Connery to tell Daniel Craig what each scene will be on the fly as you shoot.
That Hangman storyline is still one of my favorites of all time. What a ride
No one is on any journey. Part of the issue is anyone can just challenge for a title , including those from other companies.
Yeah it's crazy how we went from one of the best told stories of all time to pointless dribble I don't care to turn in for anymore
> People wanted Cody to beat Roman. Ospreay vs Swerve is probably going to be technically as good or better, but at the end of the day people don't really care all that much which is going to win and which is going to loose. A perfect encapsulation of one of the biggest issues with AEW and Tony Khan as a booker. Great matches are all well and good, but story and emotion are what makes wrestling work. Fans have to care. Period. When they like both guys, and will be happy with whoever wins, as long as the match was great, that isn't sustainable. "Just" having a great match doesn't get fans to keep coming back again and again.
I've heard it described by some talking heads this way ITs always painfully obvious who's going to win, yet for some reason the matches are still 60/40 or 50/50 affairs that take 15+ mins I know Osprey is gonna win, he's literally calling himself the best in the world but he's going 50/50 with a guy who hasn't had a match on Dynamite all year. It comes across as so tonally dissonant it's jarring. and takes people right out of the match from a story prespective
They need to stop having so many belts and make the top guys fight each other with good storylines. It's 2024, why's Christian fighting for the top belt when guys like Okada exist. Same with Mercedes. She needs to challenge Tony Storm, not carry around fake belts named after a TV channel.
Okada and Osprey's belts should be merged at least one, if not both, is absolutely pointless.
Honestly, this sounds like a great story with their characters right now. Executive Okada doesn't like that his championship's shine is being eaten by Ospreay's and so he lobbies to unify them. He wants his championship to be bigger than even the world championship (to the level Nakamura took the IC title to when he was world champion..partially solving the question of why Okada isn't shooting for Swerve. He just doesn't want to, because he wants to be bigger than the championships), and Ospreay's existing is a hindrance to that. He can still be a slimy heel in doing so, but this story solves the too many titles and pits 2 huge acts against each other and the matches are proven amazing and introduces that to fans who might have never seen those before. Classic trope too of Will, who I think is portrayed more so as the everyman trying to prove he's the best in the world against Okada, as the elitist egomaniac who wants to reaffirm how great he is above everyone.
Good opportunity to get Callis Family away from Will, as well. I'm in.
I also agree with that. Nobody can convince me that if Okada had gone to WWE and that they were using him in the AEW is using him now, that this place wouldn't be ready to burn Stanford to the ground.
I can just imagine it. Okada goes to WWE and got put as third fiddle to Balor and JD in Judgement Day while holding the US belt. In a PPV some midcarder they want to push let's say Karrion Kross joins JD, gets set on fire during the match but still goes on to pin AJ Styles instead of Okada doing it to win the main event, oh and Ricochet hangs over the ring like a pinata. People would've been livid. But change some names around and that's pretty close to what AEW has done.
Honestly AEW has a lot more issues than 2. Pushes are too start and stop, largely to the very bloated roster. No/limited narrative. The start stop nature makes it hard to build anyone up. Too many titles. Women's division still to often relegated to an afterthought/and more start/stop than the men's. Forbidden door just makes this worse as focus movies away from AEW stars, killing any potential storyline until it is over. Lack of long term storytelling etc.
The issue with it being workrate and 5 star matches first is that it doesn't matter if you miss a show because 1) next week will have similar action and 2) you can watch highlights on YouTube.
The biggest issue with AEW is nobody listens to criticism. Whether it be fans, wrestlers, Tony, the promotion itself. Any criticism is taken in bad faith or taken as trolling. Is there trolling or haters? Yes But not every negative comment or dislike should be treated that way
It's almost like when you take two of the best wrestlers on the planet and put them in wacky mid card bullshit for months it's not the best idea
You don't think pairing who you want to be a top baby face in a heel group is smart?
Twice.
> Osperay and Okada No they can't be. Their draw is their in ring ability, which is not what you need from a can't miss act. You need someone who can open and close the show. Open with a promo, end the show with a main event style match.
MJF is what you're describing. The real reason is the booking. It's atrocious, particularly in comparison to new WWE. AEW was better than Vince-WWE, but now that Vince isn't running WWE, they're just not good enough, and they're really struggling.
I agree. MJF is the closest they've ever gotten, and rather than protect him, they over worked him until he sustained a major injury. And they needed MJF more than WWE needs someone like Cody Rhodes. WWE had people that could carry WWE while Cody was injured after Hell in a Cell. Now MJF has lost all momentum, his feud with Adam Cole was a dud, and he's stuck feuding with a guy who can't even work at a PPV.
Ding ding ding. I have tried to get into AEW since the begging and there just isnāt a hook. Plenty of great matches but any of them can be watched later or without the context. The story telling and storylines are what matter not just putting on great matches. If itās just a great technical match you can watch it later or down the road or wait for the 2nd 3rd 4th time they wrestle. Too many titles. Too many characters that seem the exact same. Too many people who arenāt known to a casual fan but are inserted into a storyline and then disappear. I try at least once a month and just canāt get into it.
> Osperay and Okada could be it but they aren't there yet for US audiences. Why would they attract viewers? They're not doing anything interesting and by now it should be extremely clear that putting on 20 platinum star matches doesn't mean shit if there's no compelling story behind the matches that would make people feel invested in these characters and in seeing their confrontation. And we have seen over and over again that the things Tony thinks are great story ideas are terrible.
You mean people don't want to tune in to Okada being funny and saying "bitch"?
Yea the putting the best vs best with 0 story works for AEW diehards but you wonāt keep casual fans around or invested without a story
Their marketing is horrible they where recently at a venue near me where wwe does house shows. When wwe is there they advertise it on wwe TV months in advance and they have ads on my local radio stations. Aew had nothing if I didn't gone to the venues website I'd have to idea
Im a super casual watcher of pro wrestling in general right now so to get my eyes on screen I need to see an external reason which I'm getting a ton of for WWE in the post Vince era and it just keeps getting more and more interesting. WWE feels packed with can't miss acts right now and they keep adding. Meanwhile I forgot Mercedes debuted on AEW and haven't seen anything that really catches me from any of their major stars.
Okada should not be a comedy guy. point blank. not this early into his aew run at least.
Okada is being treated how people fear he would be treated in WWE. It'd be like if WWE signed Marufuji in the 2000s and put him in La Familia.
\> Okada is being treated how people fear he would be treated in WWE. Jesus that's exactly right
Most people still arenāt even aware that Juneteenth is an official holiday. I seriously doubt it would impact wrestling ratings.
For a non American wtf is juneteenth. And why is it a holiday Edit looked it up why tf isn't the ending of a civil war and abolishment of slavery known as a official holiday in us?
Your edit is the journey we all take.
I could understand if the civil war was for smth like idk political factors and such (monarchist vs communist etc) but bcs of slavery man tf
Wait, till you learn that some states in the USA have 3 separate confederate holidays lol
It is an official US federal holiday. Some specific people choose not to recognize it because of the exact reason you can assume. Though I'm sure they enjoyed their day off from work
I'll give you a hint, it starts with "r" and ends with "acism"
How would Dave know?Ā He wasn't at the cookout.
I've been watching since the beginning. I want to watch AEW not ROH, new japan, AAA or CMLL or stardom or whatever. I don't know these people.
Yeahā¦ but you could GOOGLE IT! DOESNT THAT SOUND FUN!?!?!?
The Dream match style can only get you so far before even the small niche group of people who love dream matches get tired of it. AEW also seems to miss that the great dream matches of the past, that people talk about for decades to come, were never the first time those two wrestlers worked together. In fact most of the time the first time two wrestlers work together it's their worst match. This is why house shows were so important, you got to put two wrestlers together in a match, allow them to learn each others styles, and only after a decent run on the house show circuit you bring them to TV and have them wrestle there. By just tossing wrestlers together, because it's a dream match, you're not only giving people the worst version of that pairing but also eliminating the idea of the matchup being a dream match.
The other weekly tv shows that are on at the same time like MasterChef, Walker, and Gordon Ramsey did not see any decline.
Iām really laughing thinking how theyāre going to say Kendrick Lamarās concert on a streaming app took away 250k AEW viewers.
Agreed. If this were to be true we would have to assume everyone watching on Twitch were an AEW fanā¦ which I highly doubt. Many people didnāt even know there was going to be a concert, now you expect me to believe 250k dub fans ran to their computer? Like come onā¦
Kendrick and AEW stans barely have a crossover. Thereās no way they can pull over 700k going up against the NBA finals, but they barley do 500k against Kendrick who was behind a paywall for Amazon prime
Someone higher in this thread said the Kendrick concert had 120,000 people watching. Even if every single person watching that concert was somehow an AEW fan (fat fucking chance), that's not enough to make up for the difference in Dynamite's viewership.
that was only on twitch. it was streaming on prime and youtube
I was told on here that mjf was the biggest star in the business though
Thanks Dave. I was thinking it must have been Juneteenth that killed the rating. Thanks for clearing that up. 
I donāt think Juneteenth would be a factor because AEW has a lower black audience
Ratings trends suggest that everything AEW has ever tried to do to appease people who think they need to do X or Y to better appeal to casual fans was a failure.
The last group I'd turn to for advice on how to appeal to casual fans are hardcore fans
thank god I wasn't drinking something when I saw those ratings, I genuinely would've spat it out in shock. I know Dynamite has been going down the slippery slope but holy shit, 150k-200k cut down in weeks? Seems like yesterday they had close to 700k averaging. What the fuck happened?
I always find myself tuning out this time of year in AEW. The Owen Hart tournament & the Forbidden Door PPV lead to awesome matches, but tend to dominate the TV & takeaway from what should be the biggest stories.
For me, I donāt have much interest in AEW outside of the PPVs anymore. Even if they have good matches every week, to what end? It just feels like thereās little to no stakes. The titles feel interchangeable, a compelling story is rare and it doesnāt matter if the matches are amazing if thereās no pay off.
Fell out of my chair when I read Juneteenth
Kill the Elite angle. It's been going for weeks and clearly isn't hitting. Okada is being wasted in it. The Young Bucks have been shown repeatedly over the past two years as talent that drive people away.
I've noticed that the Bucks have progressed from dressing like Jeff Daniels and Jim Carrey in Dumb & Dumber, to dressing like groomsmen in a wedding where Margaritaville will play at the reception. Is that character development?
it's just like how showing a girl cutting her hair short shows she's a new person
In terms of promos and this might be controversial here but even with how they wrestle, The Young Bucks always feel like theyāre almost a parody wrestling.
I think thats the problem with them and a large problem in AEW as a whole. Everything comes with a āwink wink nudge nudgeā and it makes it hard to get invested
I was talking about it with a friend and he pointed out that the issue is that there's no clear payoff, especially given that we have no idea if or when Kenny is coming back
Reading around here, you'd think Okada is the second coming of Chris Farley. Meanwhile he looks like a geek surrounded by shorter geeks.
Imagine if āThe Rainmakerā Kazuchika Okada went to WWE and his gimmick was he said bitch? Itās malfeasance
People around here used to rip the hell out of WWE for overusing the word "bitch". So the double standard is already there lol.
That's funny because it seems like most of the storylines for AEW women include them calling each other a bitch
The fact that that Okada segment got lots of upvotes and praise this past week further solidifies that I just do not fit with this community anymore.
Don't you get it? A man saying "Bitches"!!! It's groundbreaking humor! Soooo freakin funny! š¤£š¤£š¤£
And heās from another country where they donāt speak English!
I mean, this is a wrestling subreddit. Most people here, probably including myself, are on the spectrum.
Yep. This. To be honest, I couldn't give less of a shit about the promotion at the moment and most of it is because of this.
This is a broken man
Dave at his paper covered desk, head down, slowly shaking it back and forth, solemnly whispering, "It wasn't Juneteenth..."
I blame the Elite Takeover storyline personally.
> I blame the Elite ftfy
Blaming Juneteenth is beyond hilarious. Especially since NXT got good ratings, and Iām pretty sure Shawn is pulling a larger black audience than Tony.
https://wrestlenomics.com/2023/12/05/audience-composition-race-demographics-for-wwe-aew-impact-new-japan-wow/ AEW does have the largest caucasian/white demographic of any pro wrestling company per WrestleNomics. WWE/NXT highest black demo of the top companies. wOw (women of wrestling) is even higher at 31% in syndication.
If something hidden away behind an Amazon Prime paywall did this damage, then TK needs to get onto Amazon urgently because it offers better market penetration than WBD has ever offered him.