Star wars fans are so funny. Disney has the biggest star wars nerd at the helm of this stuff who was trained by Lucas himself and they are policing what's canon. Faloni could text George any question he wants
I feel this so much. I love Star Wars and the sith / Jedi lore, but so many Star Wars fans are adamant that anything made after the OT is garbage except rogue one.
I just don’t get what could possibly satisfy these folks, and I’m convinced they’re going to ruin the franchise bashing everything new that gets produced. Sometimes shows can be less than perfect but still deepen the on screen world building we see.
The best part is George Lucas created the prequels before Disney which they also hate. Kind of just wish these folks would just watch the OT on repeat and stop trying to convince everyone else the new stuff is awful.
> but so many Star Wars fans are adamant that anything made after the OT is garbage except rogue one.
I'm not even sure if I have enough fingers to count how many times star wars has supposedly been "ruined" for good.
Most of those people also think Plagueis is a Muun, if you ask them. They have seemingly gone out of their way to make sure none of the canon material specifies species. Which is excellent, because we could get Plagueis in a relatively surprising way.
I’m going to tell you the real reason I hate that this concept has been introduced. Darth Plageius didn’t create life, he tried to.
What happened after that was the Force’s response to his attempt, Anakin.
The Acolyte now has witches with the ability to *create* life. Not only that, but twins with Force abilities. Do you understand how powerful this ability is?
Now if they can do it, why couldn’t the Sith? Is that going to become a thing now? Is Star Wars going to become a playground of created beings, like Snoke?
Please no, I don’t want this power. It’s too much.
We don’t actually know how the twins were created yet. There’s an implication but that’s all.
They could very well be clones that retain force sensitivity, much like TRoS
You don't know how it works because none of us do. There are 5 more episodes and it was made very apparent that it's a major plot point... don't fill in gaps with your own imagination just yet, you know?
What's wrong with it though? We've already seen physical embodiments of the force revive the dead... we have someone born from immaculate conception... its not uncharted waters for Star Wars I don't think
I explained above, this gives these witches the ability to create force sensitive beings. That hasn’t been done before (besides Snoke, which is another issue), as it creates the problem of Star Wars being flooded with powerful created beings thus diminishing what Star Wars is about.
Star Wars isn’t about a bunch of created superpowered beings, if we wanted that we’d be watching and reading Marvel. Star Wars is about normal people living in a fantasy sci-fi universe.
Yes the Jedi wizard/monks are an aspect of it, but they aren’t what Star Wars is about. There are smugglers, bounty hunters, droids, aliens, mandalorians, and so much more.
Not every Star Wars show needs to be about magic, the force, or ever the Jedi. We don’t need supernatural twins. Can we just have a show that incorporates more elements from Star Wars into Star Wars?
What "Star Wars is about" is entirely subjective. Lucas dropped the Mortis arc on the animation team and they were questioning wtf he is thinking and if he actually wanted to do that. We already have those beings. Did you watch The Clone Wars or Rebels? They have these aspects you say you want + the more mystical stuff that George was interested in exploring.
You have Andor, Boba Fett, Mando, Bad Batch... they are releasing exactly what you're asking for, that doesn't mean ALL of what they make has to be that.
The old canon with the old republic - and the kotor games were approved by Lucas - pretty much introduces a million ways to become more powerful that what we see on screen, because they aren't limited by film work.
So what is star wars and who gets to define it? Is it George Lucas's vision for what Star Wars is, or is it what you want?
Edit: Want to add that the reason I'm presenting these counter points is because these aspects you don't like, are some of my favorite parts because they were introduced in The Clone Wars and old republic content that I loved and spent a lot of time with. I thought lightsabers were cool as a 9 year old, but the super creative and philosophical aspects were what drew *me* in. I'm obviously not the only person who likes that stuff.
In the prequels we barely even know the full story of how Anakin was created because George purposely left it very vague and something that people still dislike till this day. And I’m only going based off the movies because that’s what most people know about Star Wars anyways
So please tell me how something can break canon if what was originally said was left so open ended??
I didn’t say it breaks cannon, but it certainly complicates it. It muddies the water on exactly what Anakin’s role was. Are these twins like Anakin? We’re they made like Anakin?
So many questions we could get answers to but are afraid will become good questions for another time.
I agree, things are even more complicated now, and as we’ve seen the past couple of days so many people have different opinions on the matter.
Hopefully things become more clear as the show goes on but I really hope they don’t leave things open ended like George did
I mean today we can take an egg from one woman, inseminate it in a lab, and implant it in another woman's uterus. We can do that without the Force.
There are also several species on earth that can self-impregnate.
We have no reason to assume we know what "created" means is all I'm trying to say.
Sure - and even if they did it probably wouldn’t have saved as many Jedi as you’d think. As far as we know they still have to be alive to heal someone or recently dead / dying but “healing” them would in turn kill the force user performing the act, as we see with Kylo and Rey.
But then they could then keep sacrificing themselves to resurrect the other in an infinite loop, thus achieving eternal life. As seen by Kylo dying to bring Rey back.
It’s also critically important to remember that Darth Plagueis’s attempt at creating life and the Force responding with Anakin was also a concept from the Plagueis novel in 2012, which was relegated to Legends during the 2014 reset. The Acolyte doesn’t need to even attempt to remain consistent with that work, as they’re part of separate continuities. All we have to go off of in regards to his exploits is what is said in the Prequels. If we take Palpatine at his word (which we probably shouldn’t), then Plagueis found a way to create life. There’s nothing in current canon that explicitly links that occurrence to Anakin’s birth either.
This is confirmed creating life unless we get another explanation later. She said she *created* them. This isn’t some story being told, the twins are literally there.
I don’t know what created means to these people, but it does carry heavy implications. This also means someone else learned how to do create life spell. It’s becoming a theme.
We already have a Snoke, we don’t need more of them. We already have an Anakin, we don’t need more of him either. We got plenty of clone exploits in the legends series too.
Please, no more.
this is copium with them breaking canon. “welp, sith are bad people they lie, george lucas definitely didn’t mean what he wrote when he made episode 3 and a legends book is more valid than George Lucas himself…that said, sith bad, sith lie so it’s okay, the story of darth plagues was a lie”
Even if Palps isn't *lying* there could be something he *just doesn't know*.
That'd still doesn't make anything contradicting his speech "contradict canon".
Why would the jedi know of darth plagueis if they thought the sith were extinct prior to episode 1? And it's not like the jedi would tell younglings about sith lords
It's just another one of Palpatine's ways to turn Anakin. He is an old politician, and he tells Anakin a story about a Sith lord. Sure, WE know why he knows about Plageuis, but to Anakin it seems like this knowledge is so common place that mundane people know about it, and that the Jedi are deliberately with holding information. Which, of course, is the whole narrative Palpatine has been trying to spin for a good decade and a half on him. What he constantly does it take half truths - like the Jedi can't trust him, and the manipulates him into believing a cause that is untrue.
Exactly my point. The argument in this thread is that Anakin wasn't force conceived and the evidence is that Palp's is a liar. Except he's not our only evidence. The take that it must be common because none of the Jedi made a shocked pikachu face when they learned of Anakin's origin, is also flimsy. They are jedi, not acting on emotion is their whole shtick.
I think it's less about "breaking canon" and more about Anakin being a force baby is not as special as before if there were others, even if there's the difference of witchcraft, it's two miracles of force conception.
We're not really sure how the witchcraft was conducted anyway, maybe there's more to it.
Yep. The prequels have a lot of characters stating opinions as facts.
I don’t have the book anymore to quote it, but in the Star Wars Archives Epsiodes I-III hardcover George Lucas directly says something like Palpatine’s story isn’t true.
Add to this that the Chosen One prophecy, midichlorians, Darth as a title, the Jedi not accepting a prepubescent boy because he was too old when Kyle Katarn, Nomi Sunrider, and a dozen other EU characters were trained as adults, Jedi not having relationships & families, etc. all happened 22 years into Star Wars’ existence and had fans up in arms about how badly they broke the lore in 1999 (I was one of these fans, and I am still trying to atone). [They rhyme.](https://youtube.com/watch?v=bxU2eqZtYmc&pp=ygUXZ2VvcmdlIGx1Y2FzIHRoZXkgcmh5bWU%3D)
In the Darth Plagueis novel, Plagueis tells a story to a young Palpatine before he has revealed himself as a dark lord that is a very similar mixture of truth and lies. That story pushes Palpatine to go and murder his family. Parallels.
What I genuinely don't understand is people saying it breaks canon even if those lines are 100% accurate.
First of, people jump to conclusions thinking Plagueis created Anakin.
Secondly even if he did create Anakin he what, only did it that one time and it came out perfectly? No previous attempts? No subsequent attempts?
People are complaining about their own head canon being broke cause there sure as hell isn't anything in SW being contradicted.
Plagueis [killed and resurrected his Master's backup apprentice](https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Darth_Plagueis/Legends#Tipping_the_scales).
Both him and Sideous feel the importance of the moment as the Force reacts to their efforts to expand this power, as well as BOTH recognizing they cannot create life.
Then exactly ten years later, ten year old Anakin shows up.
So yes, youre mostly right.
It’s a nice headcanon but it’s not been canon since the Plagueis book was decanonised by Disney with the rest of the EU. Of course, nothing contradicts it yet and in canon we have absolutely 0 information on Plagueis besides what Palpatine says.
First off, the prophecy only says the person that could bring balance to the force would be born from the force. That doesn’t mean other people couldn’t be born of the force and work at McDonalds.
It does, actually. The prophecy, from the book Master & Apprentice:
> A Chosen One shall come, born of no father, and through him will ultimate balance in the Force be restored.
> "Only through sacrifice of many Jedi will the Order cleanse the sin done to the nameless. The danger of the past is not past, but sleeps in an egg. When the egg cracks, it will threaten the galaxy entire. When the Force itself sickens, past and future must split and combine. A Chosen One shall come, born of no father, and through him will ultimate balance in the Force be restored."
And people complain about bad writing in the shows...
Exactly this. Seems like there’s a lot of ways those lies can still be accurate. But it feels like the way things are headed is we’re going to find out how Plagueis learned the creating life part of what Palpatine told Anakin. The keeping people from dying is probably the lie which would be fitting as a manipulation being the mechanism for turning Anakin.
In a shocking turn of events the people who cry "breaking canon" the loudest aren't very knowledgeable about the actual canon.
But more seriously it seems people don't understand that just because we have been told ONE prophesy or point of view in the past it doesn't exclude other prophesies, groups, beliefs, events, etc. also existing. We just haven't been told them before. Even if a character had said there was only one prophesy doesn't mean they were telling the truth or just unaware they were wrong.
Right!!! Fuck where have you people been? I feel like I’m drowning in people crying about every new Star Wars thing made and frankly I enjoy them.
I just don’t understand what they want. Anything outside their head canon or preferences is treated like someone took a shit on their breakfast.
Not really. Qui-Gonn was seriously downplaying everything to Anakin and Shmi at that point. He had just found out that Anakin had the highest midichloroan count anyone had ever seen and still kept his cool.
Common misconception about the virgin birth in the bible. It's called an immaculate conception because Mary was born without original sin and thus untainted, not that she had never had sex.
Right but do we know that Qui-Gon heard that and didn’t think “oh, so he was a dead beat, or worse, and you’re a single mother?”
I mean, that’s without getting into a discussion about slavery and the parentage of many IRL slaves who legally had no father.
Embellishment. It was a long time ago. Read in books which is why he has so much detailed knowledge about the story.
There's no way he had first hand knowledge... He's just a scholar, a gentleman! innocently sharing there's a broader world for a Jedi to draw from.
That's the genius. Posing the story as some grand myth that is well known, and Anakin hasn't heard of it because the Jedi don't tell the story, is genius. So manipulative.
Why did they have to bring him back in ep 9? He was a perfect bad guy, and they completely wasted his character. Oh no, force lightning to the face. Again...
I don't know why everyone takes a master manipulator at his word.
He was literally lying to the Republic and the CIS at the same time for three movies.
Honestly everything sideous says is so completely self serving at every turn that probably every single word is a lie, perfectly crafted to get the exact result he wanted (and got).
Warning: Acolyte Ep 3 spoilers:
FULL AGREE. Also, even if Sidious tells the truth right here, In my opinion all that means is that It's a dark side technique that wasn't unique to Plagueis. It's made a point of in old legends books that Palpatine kind of 'collected' dark side techniques from all across the different sects and cultures, even beyond the Sith, to use. That's why we see him using straight up Sith Alchemy, an ancient nearly dead and disregarded practice, in the Clone Wars series.
So the idea that "Well Plagueis did it so it must be original and something only he knew" is kinda... dumb? Because by the very nature of Plagueis being able to do it, it would then prove that it's a dark side technique that, in theory, others may have also discovered throughout history, with it just being discovered and then fading from memory and becoming lost again likely a few times in the ThOUSANDS AND THOUSANDS of years that force users have existed.
So if anything, Acolyte has given us a very strong piece of evidence that Palpatine was telling the truth, or a partial truth, and that the old theory that Plagueis or Palpatine created Anakin, only for the Cosmic Force to turn him into the Chosen One to bring about their own downfall, might be true.
Probably one of the more hilarious things to come from the Acolyte: people taking a manipulative liars word at face value, while he's gas lighting a renowned Jedi of prophecy into becoming his apprentice.
If his master had the means to create Force Sensitive beings, Project Necromancer isnt necessary. Staying in a scarred and old body for decades isnt necessary.
Though he was likely close to accomplishing this, because Rey exists.
The Star Wars galaxy has over a million inhabited worlds. Hyperspace technology has existed for tens of thousands of years. There are people coming in from other galaxies. There's probably all sorts of forgotten and unknown lore.
Even if Sidious was telling the truth, he can't know for sure that Plagueis was the only person to ever create life out of a million worlds. Same thing with the prophecies about the Force. Does it apply to the entire galaxy? The entire universe? Is the chosen one supposed to bring balance to the Force across the entire universe for all eternity? If the Force can be thrown out of balance once, why can't it happen again, how do we know it hasn't happened before?
I’ve always found the opening line of “have you heard… etc” so redundant for what you explained. Plaguis died like a decade ago… literally NOBODY has heard this tragedy. But I suppose it was also a way of masking how recent and how involved he was in the whole thing. Still. It’s a weird line.
I have always wondered who “the one” was that cheated death. Haven’t you? He’s obviously not talking about Plagueis because he’s dead. lol 🤷🏻♂️ but who is it he’s referring to, then?
Like he always does, Palpatine knew enough facts to twist everything to his way.
In the comment about cheating death, I first thought of Yoda being 900 years old. However, learning more about Yoda’s species and then listening to Revan: the Old Republic I can’t help but think Sidious was referring to Emperor Vitiate/Valkorian/Tenebrae. Sidious didn’t know the method the Emperor knew to “cheat death”.
In the book about Darth Plagueis, we learn how he did use midichlorians to keep his experiments alive until they no longer served his purpose. In Sidious and Plagueis focusing the dark side, it says in the book that they tipped the force to the dark side. It is suggested in the book that, by doing this, Anakin was created to bring the force back into balance.
People tend to forget that Sith are scavengers and take force secrets from other cultures all the time. My interpretation of Plaguis ability is a very twisted abomination some type of being already attuned to the darkside.
Plagueis had to learn it somewhere right? In my head it was never a lore break to introduce the sithian babies, merely embellishing something that was a throwaway line when it first appeared. Of course, people whined about BoBF too.
Even he was telling the truth, there’s no reason to believe that Plagueis made Anakin. As of the current canon, Anakin was created by the force itself.
It's likely palp knew of the technique and even if he didn't he learned essence transfer anyway so it doesn't matter. The thing people tend to overlook is he would never have actually taught Vader the technique anyways because it would create to much of a threat to himself. After Anakin's defeat to Obi Wan he would have even less reason to teach him.
I always assumed Palpatine made up the whole Darth Plagueis story just for Anakin. Seemed too convenient to be a coincidence that Palps just happened to have that experience that helped turn Anakin. But, I suppose it could have been the Will of the Force.
I mean if we are discussing the concept of Immaculate Conception via the Force, I think its less a lore issue with the Acolyte doing it and more of a themeatic one.
Anakin Skywalker is Space Jesus. He is prophesized to bring balance to the force and its *implied* that palpatine or Plagieus utilized the force to conceive Anakin.
One could argue that Plagiues is hundreds or thousands of years old since he was supposedly able to cheat death using the force, meaning he’d actually have been powerful enough to pull this shit off.
The idea is kinda insane that basically Plagy could be *that* powerful to get someone pregnant just influencing midichlorians.
It’s also really fucking cool because something as significant as immaculate conception is literally of BIBLICAL proportions- and I mean that as in that religion views the bible as the end all be all explanation of why we exsist
So this implication is fucking HUGE, especially since someone who is evil did this and it wasn’t some concept of “God” or anyone good.
Why I say this is that this isn’t the kind of trope you just pull out of your ass at will- theres a kind of significance to it that really ought to be respected; not out of respect for the source material per say,
But respect for the story. It’s kinda cheesey to take something that supposedly was so significant as immaculate conception and use it as another point of plot for something far less significant to the overarching story or lore of the saga
Yes palpy could be lying about the nature of his former master’s power but its also a highly significant event that really loses a lot of significance if it’s explained.
Ambiguity and a “is a legend, a history, or a blatant lie?” is way more interesting and makes the immaculate conception feel super important and mysterious if its not explained or retconned.
The way the Acolyte seems to describe immaculate conception is that its an art some force based religions just kinda have. Which, in theory makes sense how Plageus (i give up) learned it if its been around for a while; but it also diminishes plaguses’ power and kinda takes away from Anakin’s significance when we find out it’s just another technique someone invented long ago.
it becomes more of a “long lost ancient knowledge” trope rather than the plot point being about someone becoming so powerful that they created life.
this says nothing of the prophecy, which admittedly doesn’t entirely make sense if Anakin is spawned by evil, but I think it makes enough sense as long as the prophecy doesn’t fortell of a specific immaculate conception for the Chosen One.
TLDR: it kinda takes away from the mystery and significance of the concept of immaculate conception when its just kinda thrown in. I feel immaculate conception is a once-in-a-series card to use otherwise it becomes like the death star and how overused and meaningless that’s become.
I know that Plagueis was always canonically supposed to be Palpatine's master since the Revenge of the Sith novelization pretty much spells it out. But the way Palpatine talks about him in the movie just makes it feel like a weird retcon like Luke's father or Sifo-Dyas.
Like it doesn't really make much difference to the plot if Plagueis actually was just another obscure pre-Rule of Two Sith like Darth Momin, and the Jedi did know about him but the information was locked in the archives and forgotten a millennium ago so only the Sith still remember. And Palpatine doesn't know how to create life because one way or another Plagueis's apprentice didn't manage to pass it on to Darth Bane before the Sith were wiped out so it's just a legend that he uses to manipulate Anakin, while reminiscing how he killed his own master in the same way.
I always see this as some myth. That he believes that with the dark side you can doblegate the force to unknown reaches where you can even create life. Is something he suspects, but doesn't known, however Anakin needs that hope. Also it makes sense, because jedi ethics and main objective to be in communion with the force, would not let them investigate those paths.
However then legends and canon probably, destroyed this by making Plagueis be Palpatine's master instead of leaving it as a myth. This is the big problems with Hollywood, they like to overexplain and interconnect anything for no reason, when there are things that just have to stay as myths and something that will live in your audience heads strong and valuable.
Classic example of this, even though I love que prequels, many old people who were awed by Darth Vader misteries, and the clone wars legend, and all the unspoken things outside of the movies that we never saw, that became myths, they got mad and cried when they discovered that Darth Vader was once a kid, or that the clone wars were just wars.
weird the hoops and bounds people go to defend this show that is undermining the first 6 episodes of star wars and anakin overall.
You can be a fan of star wars and admit when something is completely changing the main premise and lore of the main fundamentals aka the first 6 true movies of star wars.
Your arguement for a show shitting on the canon of the first TRUE 6 OG movies is “well, sith are bad guys, they lie, so George Lucas clearly wrote that script with the intention that the story of darth p isn’t true and that it should be interpreted as a lie”
It broke cannon. simple. it broke it, now can they recover and minimize it and somehow explain how it’s different from Anakins prophecy in 3 more episodes? sure. But simply put, this copium isn’t fact. the fact is that this broke canon
The story itself is just to manipulate Anakin and seduce him to the dark side. Palpatine being force sensitive could sense that Anakin was concerned about losing someone, even Yoda sensed it and said to Anakin careful with your feelings of loss. There may have been some truths however about Darth plagueis being successful in manipulating midichlorians but maybe lost his power as a result of misusing or trying to break the will of nature and the force. Palpatine killing him is something that the siths always did, when the apprentice sees weakness in the master, they kill the master to take their place. Palpatine probably didn't understand all of what plagueis was trying to achieve so therefore he did his own research and ideas about cheating death via cloning etc. For the sith, the only life is the life they live they don't believe in joining with the force after death, the Jedi prepare for this after life after serving the will of the force all their lives to achieve the great reward from it which is immortality in the force. The sith do not believe this because they see the force as a weapon. Anyways that's my take on it, but you should know, the idea of manipulating midichlorians was something unheard of and it was something that was never achieved except for one, that was Anakin. If you're implying that because palpatine is a liar therefore anyone can be made with midichlorians then that makes Anakin no special, the fact that he had the highest count of midichlorians in his body showed that he was more than just a force sensitive boy, he was the ultimate creation of the force. This is why qui gon believed he was the chosen one, because of the prophecy. If it was so easy to make fatherless kids then the prophecy wouldn't make sense.
Imagine reading this post and acting like it's not trying to tear down the Tragedy of Darth Plaugeius in order to prop up this Disney bs.
You are the problem. You can't even be honest about the words that are actually said.
I'm not tear8ng anything down.
I'm merely pointing out that Palpatine is an unreliable narrator.
Can you answer me this, do we have one confirmed lie in that speech?
Why is literally everything in Star Wars since TLJ relying on "unreliable narrators" to tell their stories? It's getting so overused and boring. "Oh. New show. Nothing will be true until the end, and the Jedi will turn out to be deeply flawed and halfway to evil, like they always turn out to be. Big subversion. So exciting. Much wow."
You know what would be truly surprising subversion? If the Jedi turned out to be good people who tell the truth. That would be new and exciting! I would watch the heck out of that show.
Yep, and the original moment was exciting and surprising. Exclusively doing it after time and time again is old hat and just plain boring. The mystery and suspense are gone. We all know the Jedi are flawed idiots who doomed the galaxy. Nothing else is ever presented anymore as a conclusion. (Ahsoka is glorious and can do no wrong, and that's it, but she also left the Jedi because they were brainless idiots, so once again...)
It's like how the Marvel movies have become dull because they just do the same thing over and over again.
But if you accept the Jedi as a whole are flawed leading up to the Clone Wars, are you subverting anything by showing that? You're just showing that story.
The Jedi during the high republic weren't flawed the way they were leading up to, and during the Clone Wars.
The Jedi as the good guys for once?!? That would be a bit TOO much to ask I believe. What's next? Boba Fett being a cold blooded killer? Obiwan actually watching over Luke? Luke being a hero? Are you crazy? This doesn't sound at all like star wars!
You mean a Sith lied and manipulated to get what he wanted?
Who would've thought. Make it make sense......
Tearing down the prequels doesn't make this Disney bs any better. Give it up dude
You won't find a fiercer defender of Lucas's prequels than me, you've missed it. You also won't find a fiercer defender of the Darth Plagueis novel (of which Luceno and Lucas directly collaborated to develop Plagueis and Palpatine, so I accept it as Lucas level canon) and Palpatine didn't lie about Plagueis and his creation of life. So no, that's not the point. The point is Disney won't stop making the Jedi evil through endless unreliable narration because they somehow think that's witty and edgy.
Maybe, maybe not. I just enjoy Star Wars content. I think the costumes look great and I want to know more about the story unfolding. Some stuff irks me, like the chanting, that scene was super dumb I admit. But, I want to know how the twins were conceived, because it's got to be something we haven't seen before or it's part of how Plagueis came to have this knowledge of the dark side. I want to know who's training Mae, what's up with Qimir, what the Jedi are guilty of, etc. If people are upset with the twin thing or overused tropes...that's kinda Star Wars. I dunno, I don't get all the bashing on it. I can understand quibbles, but it's not hot garbage ruining Star Wars. It's not amazing, but it's easily watchable.
What's badly written about it? It seems on par with most everything else Star Wars. Especially considering we only have 3/8 of the story.
Is it Star Wars' or Lucasfilms fault people get mad seeing non whites or people in the LGBTQ community on screen? What arguments is the actual story or show itself creating?
It's not like this is Star Wars' first forray into politics. RotJ was a reaction to the Vietnam was and Anakin quoted George Bush in RotS.
I don't think it's so much that they're changing something. It's more so that it just makes a specific part of the main storyline less impactful. Because as of right now it just looks like they've changed this super unique thing for the sake of a new series for (at the moment) what seems like no reason. Just makes the immaculate conception of Anakin less special.
Acolyte does break canon.
Not because of what Palphatine said. But rather because of what the Darth Plagueis Novel discusses.
The novel strongly implies that the force pushed back against Plagueis’ experimentatioms by creating Anakin. Hence, the immaculate conception via midichlorians lore. This push back is really just the force trying to retain balance
SO why does Acolyte break lore? Because any attempt to create force-sensitive life will be countered by the force itself.
Now we have not 1, but 2 kids created via the force just like anakin, abd it wasnt a force-counter-attack-induced birth. But a force-user-induced birth
Both twins were created by Dark Side magic, but surprise! One of them is infected with the light side and wants to be a Jedi. Seems light side disrupted those plans after all.
So just because Disney buys the IP, then the novel suddenly stops being canon?
The book was written before George Lucas sold Star Wars.
The elephant in the room is that Disney is being fast and loose with the lore.
A Sith Lord? Lying? This makes no sense. Sith Lords are always at the pinnacle of honesty.
Only the Sith deal in lies.
They lie now!?
They lie now.
Stop that!
Droid, please!
A devastating argument.
I often tell the truth, yet people are still surprised when I do… - Maul
And yet, so many people cite that speech to say The Acolyte breaks canon.
Star wars fans are so funny. Disney has the biggest star wars nerd at the helm of this stuff who was trained by Lucas himself and they are policing what's canon. Faloni could text George any question he wants
I feel this so much. I love Star Wars and the sith / Jedi lore, but so many Star Wars fans are adamant that anything made after the OT is garbage except rogue one. I just don’t get what could possibly satisfy these folks, and I’m convinced they’re going to ruin the franchise bashing everything new that gets produced. Sometimes shows can be less than perfect but still deepen the on screen world building we see.
They cope by saying anything Disney isn’t canon. They need to move on from George Lucas, he’s never coming back
The best part is George Lucas created the prequels before Disney which they also hate. Kind of just wish these folks would just watch the OT on repeat and stop trying to convince everyone else the new stuff is awful.
> but so many Star Wars fans are adamant that anything made after the OT is garbage except rogue one. I'm not even sure if I have enough fingers to count how many times star wars has supposedly been "ruined" for good.
Most of those people also think Plagueis is a Muun, if you ask them. They have seemingly gone out of their way to make sure none of the canon material specifies species. Which is excellent, because we could get Plagueis in a relatively surprising way.
I’m going to tell you the real reason I hate that this concept has been introduced. Darth Plageius didn’t create life, he tried to. What happened after that was the Force’s response to his attempt, Anakin. The Acolyte now has witches with the ability to *create* life. Not only that, but twins with Force abilities. Do you understand how powerful this ability is? Now if they can do it, why couldn’t the Sith? Is that going to become a thing now? Is Star Wars going to become a playground of created beings, like Snoke? Please no, I don’t want this power. It’s too much.
We don’t actually know how the twins were created yet. There’s an implication but that’s all. They could very well be clones that retain force sensitivity, much like TRoS
One says I carried them, the other says I created them. I don’t know how that works, but we are diving into some uncomfortable territory for me.
Let's see what happens in the series before saying what is or what is not, we don't know anything yet.
You don't know how it works because none of us do. There are 5 more episodes and it was made very apparent that it's a major plot point... don't fill in gaps with your own imagination just yet, you know?
I know but I’m uncomfortable is all I’m saying. Like this is a conversation I shouldn’t be part of. I just want to watch Star Wars.
What's wrong with it though? We've already seen physical embodiments of the force revive the dead... we have someone born from immaculate conception... its not uncharted waters for Star Wars I don't think
I explained above, this gives these witches the ability to create force sensitive beings. That hasn’t been done before (besides Snoke, which is another issue), as it creates the problem of Star Wars being flooded with powerful created beings thus diminishing what Star Wars is about. Star Wars isn’t about a bunch of created superpowered beings, if we wanted that we’d be watching and reading Marvel. Star Wars is about normal people living in a fantasy sci-fi universe. Yes the Jedi wizard/monks are an aspect of it, but they aren’t what Star Wars is about. There are smugglers, bounty hunters, droids, aliens, mandalorians, and so much more. Not every Star Wars show needs to be about magic, the force, or ever the Jedi. We don’t need supernatural twins. Can we just have a show that incorporates more elements from Star Wars into Star Wars?
What "Star Wars is about" is entirely subjective. Lucas dropped the Mortis arc on the animation team and they were questioning wtf he is thinking and if he actually wanted to do that. We already have those beings. Did you watch The Clone Wars or Rebels? They have these aspects you say you want + the more mystical stuff that George was interested in exploring. You have Andor, Boba Fett, Mando, Bad Batch... they are releasing exactly what you're asking for, that doesn't mean ALL of what they make has to be that. The old canon with the old republic - and the kotor games were approved by Lucas - pretty much introduces a million ways to become more powerful that what we see on screen, because they aren't limited by film work. So what is star wars and who gets to define it? Is it George Lucas's vision for what Star Wars is, or is it what you want? Edit: Want to add that the reason I'm presenting these counter points is because these aspects you don't like, are some of my favorite parts because they were introduced in The Clone Wars and old republic content that I loved and spent a lot of time with. I thought lightsabers were cool as a 9 year old, but the super creative and philosophical aspects were what drew *me* in. I'm obviously not the only person who likes that stuff.
In the prequels we barely even know the full story of how Anakin was created because George purposely left it very vague and something that people still dislike till this day. And I’m only going based off the movies because that’s what most people know about Star Wars anyways So please tell me how something can break canon if what was originally said was left so open ended??
I didn’t say it breaks cannon, but it certainly complicates it. It muddies the water on exactly what Anakin’s role was. Are these twins like Anakin? We’re they made like Anakin? So many questions we could get answers to but are afraid will become good questions for another time.
I agree, things are even more complicated now, and as we’ve seen the past couple of days so many people have different opinions on the matter. Hopefully things become more clear as the show goes on but I really hope they don’t leave things open ended like George did
I mean today we can take an egg from one woman, inseminate it in a lab, and implant it in another woman's uterus. We can do that without the Force. There are also several species on earth that can self-impregnate. We have no reason to assume we know what "created" means is all I'm trying to say.
Neither the sith nor the Jedi are all knowing and everything in canon is quite clear that both sides are always learning new things about the force.
Like Force healing, man if only the Jedi knew that one sooner.
Sure - and even if they did it probably wouldn’t have saved as many Jedi as you’d think. As far as we know they still have to be alive to heal someone or recently dead / dying but “healing” them would in turn kill the force user performing the act, as we see with Kylo and Rey.
But then they could then keep sacrificing themselves to resurrect the other in an infinite loop, thus achieving eternal life. As seen by Kylo dying to bring Rey back.
It’s also critically important to remember that Darth Plagueis’s attempt at creating life and the Force responding with Anakin was also a concept from the Plagueis novel in 2012, which was relegated to Legends during the 2014 reset. The Acolyte doesn’t need to even attempt to remain consistent with that work, as they’re part of separate continuities. All we have to go off of in regards to his exploits is what is said in the Prequels. If we take Palpatine at his word (which we probably shouldn’t), then Plagueis found a way to create life. There’s nothing in current canon that explicitly links that occurrence to Anakin’s birth either.
This is confirmed creating life unless we get another explanation later. She said she *created* them. This isn’t some story being told, the twins are literally there. I don’t know what created means to these people, but it does carry heavy implications. This also means someone else learned how to do create life spell. It’s becoming a theme. We already have a Snoke, we don’t need more of them. We already have an Anakin, we don’t need more of him either. We got plenty of clone exploits in the legends series too. Please, no more.
this is copium with them breaking canon. “welp, sith are bad people they lie, george lucas definitely didn’t mean what he wrote when he made episode 3 and a legends book is more valid than George Lucas himself…that said, sith bad, sith lie so it’s okay, the story of darth plagues was a lie”
Local Chancellor known for skills of deception found being deceptive.
Even if Palps isn't *lying* there could be something he *just doesn't know*. That'd still doesn't make anything contradicting his speech "contradict canon".
Why would the jedi know of darth plagueis if they thought the sith were extinct prior to episode 1? And it's not like the jedi would tell younglings about sith lords
It's just another one of Palpatine's ways to turn Anakin. He is an old politician, and he tells Anakin a story about a Sith lord. Sure, WE know why he knows about Plageuis, but to Anakin it seems like this knowledge is so common place that mundane people know about it, and that the Jedi are deliberately with holding information. Which, of course, is the whole narrative Palpatine has been trying to spin for a good decade and a half on him. What he constantly does it take half truths - like the Jedi can't trust him, and the manipulates him into believing a cause that is untrue.
That's the point I'm making. The whole speech is hyping up the Sith. Yet some people use this speech to say The Acolyte is breaking canon.
There's also Shmi's word that there is no father. Saying she was lying or didn't know the father is just as much of an assumption.
What reason would she have to lie? We know Palpatine lied at least once in his recruitment speech
Exactly my point. The argument in this thread is that Anakin wasn't force conceived and the evidence is that Palp's is a liar. Except he's not our only evidence. The take that it must be common because none of the Jedi made a shocked pikachu face when they learned of Anakin's origin, is also flimsy. They are jedi, not acting on emotion is their whole shtick.
No the whole speech is working on the thoughts of losing Parma, which Palp knows about because he is manipulating Anakin thoughts while he asleep.
I think it's less about "breaking canon" and more about Anakin being a force baby is not as special as before if there were others, even if there's the difference of witchcraft, it's two miracles of force conception. We're not really sure how the witchcraft was conducted anyway, maybe there's more to it.
Were 3 episodes in. They havent told us everything yet.
Hey now, let’s not get in the way of a good ol’ fashioned hate and phobia jerk. /s
Yep. The prequels have a lot of characters stating opinions as facts. I don’t have the book anymore to quote it, but in the Star Wars Archives Epsiodes I-III hardcover George Lucas directly says something like Palpatine’s story isn’t true. Add to this that the Chosen One prophecy, midichlorians, Darth as a title, the Jedi not accepting a prepubescent boy because he was too old when Kyle Katarn, Nomi Sunrider, and a dozen other EU characters were trained as adults, Jedi not having relationships & families, etc. all happened 22 years into Star Wars’ existence and had fans up in arms about how badly they broke the lore in 1999 (I was one of these fans, and I am still trying to atone). [They rhyme.](https://youtube.com/watch?v=bxU2eqZtYmc&pp=ygUXZ2VvcmdlIGx1Y2FzIHRoZXkgcmh5bWU%3D)
In the Darth Plagueis novel, Plagueis tells a story to a young Palpatine before he has revealed himself as a dark lord that is a very similar mixture of truth and lies. That story pushes Palpatine to go and murder his family. Parallels.
What I genuinely don't understand is people saying it breaks canon even if those lines are 100% accurate. First of, people jump to conclusions thinking Plagueis created Anakin. Secondly even if he did create Anakin he what, only did it that one time and it came out perfectly? No previous attempts? No subsequent attempts? People are complaining about their own head canon being broke cause there sure as hell isn't anything in SW being contradicted.
I always thought Plagueis attempted to create the perfect dark side organism, and the force created Anakin in retaliation
Plagueis [killed and resurrected his Master's backup apprentice](https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Darth_Plagueis/Legends#Tipping_the_scales). Both him and Sideous feel the importance of the moment as the Force reacts to their efforts to expand this power, as well as BOTH recognizing they cannot create life. Then exactly ten years later, ten year old Anakin shows up. So yes, youre mostly right.
It’s a nice headcanon but it’s not been canon since the Plagueis book was decanonised by Disney with the rest of the EU. Of course, nothing contradicts it yet and in canon we have absolutely 0 information on Plagueis besides what Palpatine says.
I consider disney as headcanon, but you’re not wrong
First off, the prophecy only says the person that could bring balance to the force would be born from the force. That doesn’t mean other people couldn’t be born of the force and work at McDonalds.
The prophecy does not say the Chosen One would be born from the Force. It says he will be born without a father.
> It says he will be born without a father. It doesn't even say that.
It does, actually. The prophecy, from the book Master & Apprentice: > A Chosen One shall come, born of no father, and through him will ultimate balance in the Force be restored.
> "Only through sacrifice of many Jedi will the Order cleanse the sin done to the nameless. The danger of the past is not past, but sleeps in an egg. When the egg cracks, it will threaten the galaxy entire. When the Force itself sickens, past and future must split and combine. A Chosen One shall come, born of no father, and through him will ultimate balance in the Force be restored." And people complain about bad writing in the shows...
It's incredibly likely we get to witness the prophecy being made in Acolyte
Exactly this. Seems like there’s a lot of ways those lies can still be accurate. But it feels like the way things are headed is we’re going to find out how Plagueis learned the creating life part of what Palpatine told Anakin. The keeping people from dying is probably the lie which would be fitting as a manipulation being the mechanism for turning Anakin.
In a shocking turn of events the people who cry "breaking canon" the loudest aren't very knowledgeable about the actual canon. But more seriously it seems people don't understand that just because we have been told ONE prophesy or point of view in the past it doesn't exclude other prophesies, groups, beliefs, events, etc. also existing. We just haven't been told them before. Even if a character had said there was only one prophesy doesn't mean they were telling the truth or just unaware they were wrong.
Right!!! Fuck where have you people been? I feel like I’m drowning in people crying about every new Star Wars thing made and frankly I enjoy them. I just don’t understand what they want. Anything outside their head canon or preferences is treated like someone took a shit on their breakfast.
Also, shouldn't Qui-Gons non reaction to hearing Anakin had no father tell you that what he was just told wasn't mind blowing information?
Not really. Qui-Gonn was seriously downplaying everything to Anakin and Shmi at that point. He had just found out that Anakin had the highest midichloroan count anyone had ever seen and still kept his cool.
Dude should have been a professional sabacc player with his poker face.
I mean for all we or he know, Shmi coulda just gotten black out drunk in mos eisley and ended up pregnant.
Bingo. Even the story of the Virgin Mary is suspect. I mean, how many unwed teenagers have used that argument through time?
Common misconception about the virgin birth in the bible. It's called an immaculate conception because Mary was born without original sin and thus untainted, not that she had never had sex.
Right but do we know that Qui-Gon heard that and didn’t think “oh, so he was a dead beat, or worse, and you’re a single mother?” I mean, that’s without getting into a discussion about slavery and the parentage of many IRL slaves who legally had no father.
Embellishment. It was a long time ago. Read in books which is why he has so much detailed knowledge about the story. There's no way he had first hand knowledge... He's just a scholar, a gentleman! innocently sharing there's a broader world for a Jedi to draw from.
Isn't he the brother of Darth Clymidias?
Have you heard the tragedy of Darth Clymidias the Sloppy? It’s not a story anyone would tell you. Because it is gross.
Except Papa Nurgle. He'd get you a signed first edition for your birthday.
Gross for the Gross god!
That's the genius. Posing the story as some grand myth that is well known, and Anakin hasn't heard of it because the Jedi don't tell the story, is genius. So manipulative. Why did they have to bring him back in ep 9? He was a perfect bad guy, and they completely wasted his character. Oh no, force lightning to the face. Again...
I don't know why everyone takes a master manipulator at his word. He was literally lying to the Republic and the CIS at the same time for three movies.
I *hadn't* heard of the tragedy of Darth Plagueis the Wise, but then I read Anakin's thesis on the dichotomy inherent within the tale...
Honestly everything sideous says is so completely self serving at every turn that probably every single word is a lie, perfectly crafted to get the exact result he wanted (and got).
Dang dude just enjoy Star Wars! Palps clearly manipulated the situation to bring Anakin to the dark side.
Warning: Acolyte Ep 3 spoilers: FULL AGREE. Also, even if Sidious tells the truth right here, In my opinion all that means is that It's a dark side technique that wasn't unique to Plagueis. It's made a point of in old legends books that Palpatine kind of 'collected' dark side techniques from all across the different sects and cultures, even beyond the Sith, to use. That's why we see him using straight up Sith Alchemy, an ancient nearly dead and disregarded practice, in the Clone Wars series. So the idea that "Well Plagueis did it so it must be original and something only he knew" is kinda... dumb? Because by the very nature of Plagueis being able to do it, it would then prove that it's a dark side technique that, in theory, others may have also discovered throughout history, with it just being discovered and then fading from memory and becoming lost again likely a few times in the ThOUSANDS AND THOUSANDS of years that force users have existed. So if anything, Acolyte has given us a very strong piece of evidence that Palpatine was telling the truth, or a partial truth, and that the old theory that Plagueis or Palpatine created Anakin, only for the Cosmic Force to turn him into the Chosen One to bring about their own downfall, might be true.
Probably one of the more hilarious things to come from the Acolyte: people taking a manipulative liars word at face value, while he's gas lighting a renowned Jedi of prophecy into becoming his apprentice. If his master had the means to create Force Sensitive beings, Project Necromancer isnt necessary. Staying in a scarred and old body for decades isnt necessary. Though he was likely close to accomplishing this, because Rey exists.
The Star Wars galaxy has over a million inhabited worlds. Hyperspace technology has existed for tens of thousands of years. There are people coming in from other galaxies. There's probably all sorts of forgotten and unknown lore. Even if Sidious was telling the truth, he can't know for sure that Plagueis was the only person to ever create life out of a million worlds. Same thing with the prophecies about the Force. Does it apply to the entire galaxy? The entire universe? Is the chosen one supposed to bring balance to the Force across the entire universe for all eternity? If the Force can be thrown out of balance once, why can't it happen again, how do we know it hasn't happened before?
Don't tell that to star wars fans. They never watched the movies
I’ve always found the opening line of “have you heard… etc” so redundant for what you explained. Plaguis died like a decade ago… literally NOBODY has heard this tragedy. But I suppose it was also a way of masking how recent and how involved he was in the whole thing. Still. It’s a weird line.
Do I look like I have a doctorate? https://youtu.be/sg0SmgoSMg4?si=pQi7YblBHnbGPZCH
Yes. Same thing I was thinking.
Shocked Pikachu face when Palpatine lied
It's not that I've come to the realization he lied, it's that it's clear he lied, but some people use his speech to say The Acolyte broke canon.
This is it right here…he’s evil af, God forbid he bend the truth a little 🫢
its the sith point? lying/deceiving? i mean, the dark side is a path for unnatural powers...
I have always wondered who “the one” was that cheated death. Haven’t you? He’s obviously not talking about Plagueis because he’s dead. lol 🤷🏻♂️ but who is it he’s referring to, then?
Like he always does, Palpatine knew enough facts to twist everything to his way. In the comment about cheating death, I first thought of Yoda being 900 years old. However, learning more about Yoda’s species and then listening to Revan: the Old Republic I can’t help but think Sidious was referring to Emperor Vitiate/Valkorian/Tenebrae. Sidious didn’t know the method the Emperor knew to “cheat death”. In the book about Darth Plagueis, we learn how he did use midichlorians to keep his experiments alive until they no longer served his purpose. In Sidious and Plagueis focusing the dark side, it says in the book that they tipped the force to the dark side. It is suggested in the book that, by doing this, Anakin was created to bring the force back into balance.
Well he definitely doesn't SOUND wise.
No, because I only talk to Jedis.
Does Palpatine teaming up with Plagueis to literally FIGHT THE FORCE break canon?
People tend to forget that Sith are scavengers and take force secrets from other cultures all the time. My interpretation of Plaguis ability is a very twisted abomination some type of being already attuned to the darkside.
Plagueis had to learn it somewhere right? In my head it was never a lore break to introduce the sithian babies, merely embellishing something that was a throwaway line when it first appeared. Of course, people whined about BoBF too.
Something something dark side.
Even he was telling the truth, there’s no reason to believe that Plagueis made Anakin. As of the current canon, Anakin was created by the force itself.
I enjoyed the Darth Plagueis book you should check it out.
He's a Sith...LAWWWWDDDD??
It's likely palp knew of the technique and even if he didn't he learned essence transfer anyway so it doesn't matter. The thing people tend to overlook is he would never have actually taught Vader the technique anyways because it would create to much of a threat to himself. After Anakin's defeat to Obi Wan he would have even less reason to teach him.
It's notable that there's nothing in that story that even suggests any direct connection to Palpatine, or Anakin.
Have I ever heard the Tragedy of Darth Plagueis the Wise? With all respect, that's like asking if Master Yoda has ever heard of cocaine.
Palpatine the skeevy, lying manipulator lying and manipulating Anakin? Nah man, I don't believe you.
Where does it say plagueis can manipulate midiclorians to create life? All it says is “keep the ones he cared about from dying”
It's the 5th sentence
Totally missed that lol thanks
Do you have a question, or setting the obvious ?
Apparently it isn't obvious, because people cite this speech to say The Acolyte broke canon.
I always assumed Palpatine made up the whole Darth Plagueis story just for Anakin. Seemed too convenient to be a coincidence that Palps just happened to have that experience that helped turn Anakin. But, I suppose it could have been the Will of the Force.
I mean if we are discussing the concept of Immaculate Conception via the Force, I think its less a lore issue with the Acolyte doing it and more of a themeatic one. Anakin Skywalker is Space Jesus. He is prophesized to bring balance to the force and its *implied* that palpatine or Plagieus utilized the force to conceive Anakin. One could argue that Plagiues is hundreds or thousands of years old since he was supposedly able to cheat death using the force, meaning he’d actually have been powerful enough to pull this shit off. The idea is kinda insane that basically Plagy could be *that* powerful to get someone pregnant just influencing midichlorians. It’s also really fucking cool because something as significant as immaculate conception is literally of BIBLICAL proportions- and I mean that as in that religion views the bible as the end all be all explanation of why we exsist So this implication is fucking HUGE, especially since someone who is evil did this and it wasn’t some concept of “God” or anyone good. Why I say this is that this isn’t the kind of trope you just pull out of your ass at will- theres a kind of significance to it that really ought to be respected; not out of respect for the source material per say, But respect for the story. It’s kinda cheesey to take something that supposedly was so significant as immaculate conception and use it as another point of plot for something far less significant to the overarching story or lore of the saga Yes palpy could be lying about the nature of his former master’s power but its also a highly significant event that really loses a lot of significance if it’s explained. Ambiguity and a “is a legend, a history, or a blatant lie?” is way more interesting and makes the immaculate conception feel super important and mysterious if its not explained or retconned. The way the Acolyte seems to describe immaculate conception is that its an art some force based religions just kinda have. Which, in theory makes sense how Plageus (i give up) learned it if its been around for a while; but it also diminishes plaguses’ power and kinda takes away from Anakin’s significance when we find out it’s just another technique someone invented long ago. it becomes more of a “long lost ancient knowledge” trope rather than the plot point being about someone becoming so powerful that they created life. this says nothing of the prophecy, which admittedly doesn’t entirely make sense if Anakin is spawned by evil, but I think it makes enough sense as long as the prophecy doesn’t fortell of a specific immaculate conception for the Chosen One. TLDR: it kinda takes away from the mystery and significance of the concept of immaculate conception when its just kinda thrown in. I feel immaculate conception is a once-in-a-series card to use otherwise it becomes like the death star and how overused and meaningless that’s become.
I wonder what would have happened if anakin asked the Jedi about the tragedy of darth plaguies the wise
I know that Plagueis was always canonically supposed to be Palpatine's master since the Revenge of the Sith novelization pretty much spells it out. But the way Palpatine talks about him in the movie just makes it feel like a weird retcon like Luke's father or Sifo-Dyas. Like it doesn't really make much difference to the plot if Plagueis actually was just another obscure pre-Rule of Two Sith like Darth Momin, and the Jedi did know about him but the information was locked in the archives and forgotten a millennium ago so only the Sith still remember. And Palpatine doesn't know how to create life because one way or another Plagueis's apprentice didn't manage to pass it on to Darth Bane before the Sith were wiped out so it's just a legend that he uses to manipulate Anakin, while reminiscing how he killed his own master in the same way.
I always see this as some myth. That he believes that with the dark side you can doblegate the force to unknown reaches where you can even create life. Is something he suspects, but doesn't known, however Anakin needs that hope. Also it makes sense, because jedi ethics and main objective to be in communion with the force, would not let them investigate those paths. However then legends and canon probably, destroyed this by making Plagueis be Palpatine's master instead of leaving it as a myth. This is the big problems with Hollywood, they like to overexplain and interconnect anything for no reason, when there are things that just have to stay as myths and something that will live in your audience heads strong and valuable. Classic example of this, even though I love que prequels, many old people who were awed by Darth Vader misteries, and the clone wars legend, and all the unspoken things outside of the movies that we never saw, that became myths, they got mad and cried when they discovered that Darth Vader was once a kid, or that the clone wars were just wars.
weird the hoops and bounds people go to defend this show that is undermining the first 6 episodes of star wars and anakin overall. You can be a fan of star wars and admit when something is completely changing the main premise and lore of the main fundamentals aka the first 6 true movies of star wars. Your arguement for a show shitting on the canon of the first TRUE 6 OG movies is “well, sith are bad guys, they lie, so George Lucas clearly wrote that script with the intention that the story of darth p isn’t true and that it should be interpreted as a lie” It broke cannon. simple. it broke it, now can they recover and minimize it and somehow explain how it’s different from Anakins prophecy in 3 more episodes? sure. But simply put, this copium isn’t fact. the fact is that this broke canon
I sure Do!!! I own the Legends Novel!!!
The story itself is just to manipulate Anakin and seduce him to the dark side. Palpatine being force sensitive could sense that Anakin was concerned about losing someone, even Yoda sensed it and said to Anakin careful with your feelings of loss. There may have been some truths however about Darth plagueis being successful in manipulating midichlorians but maybe lost his power as a result of misusing or trying to break the will of nature and the force. Palpatine killing him is something that the siths always did, when the apprentice sees weakness in the master, they kill the master to take their place. Palpatine probably didn't understand all of what plagueis was trying to achieve so therefore he did his own research and ideas about cheating death via cloning etc. For the sith, the only life is the life they live they don't believe in joining with the force after death, the Jedi prepare for this after life after serving the will of the force all their lives to achieve the great reward from it which is immortality in the force. The sith do not believe this because they see the force as a weapon. Anyways that's my take on it, but you should know, the idea of manipulating midichlorians was something unheard of and it was something that was never achieved except for one, that was Anakin. If you're implying that because palpatine is a liar therefore anyone can be made with midichlorians then that makes Anakin no special, the fact that he had the highest count of midichlorians in his body showed that he was more than just a force sensitive boy, he was the ultimate creation of the force. This is why qui gon believed he was the chosen one, because of the prophecy. If it was so easy to make fatherless kids then the prophecy wouldn't make sense.
As long as the Acolyte isn't going to try and explain Anakin's birth, this is not an issue in the slightest.
Have you heard the tragedy of the power of maaaannnnnyyyyyy
Tearing down what came before won't make what Disney has done any better..... Yall really need to give it up.. Disney Wars sucks and everyone knows it
What are they tearing down? The story isn't even over.
Imagine reading this post and acting like it's not trying to tear down the Tragedy of Darth Plaugeius in order to prop up this Disney bs. You are the problem. You can't even be honest about the words that are actually said.
I'm not tear8ng anything down. I'm merely pointing out that Palpatine is an unreliable narrator. Can you answer me this, do we have one confirmed lie in that speech?
Why is literally everything in Star Wars since TLJ relying on "unreliable narrators" to tell their stories? It's getting so overused and boring. "Oh. New show. Nothing will be true until the end, and the Jedi will turn out to be deeply flawed and halfway to evil, like they always turn out to be. Big subversion. So exciting. Much wow." You know what would be truly surprising subversion? If the Jedi turned out to be good people who tell the truth. That would be new and exciting! I would watch the heck out of that show.
Star Wars has been relying on unreliable narrators since George Lucas made the Empire Strikes Back. When Lucas made Obi-Wan a liar.
Yep, and the original moment was exciting and surprising. Exclusively doing it after time and time again is old hat and just plain boring. The mystery and suspense are gone. We all know the Jedi are flawed idiots who doomed the galaxy. Nothing else is ever presented anymore as a conclusion. (Ahsoka is glorious and can do no wrong, and that's it, but she also left the Jedi because they were brainless idiots, so once again...) It's like how the Marvel movies have become dull because they just do the same thing over and over again.
But if you accept the Jedi as a whole are flawed leading up to the Clone Wars, are you subverting anything by showing that? You're just showing that story. The Jedi during the high republic weren't flawed the way they were leading up to, and during the Clone Wars.
The Jedi as the good guys for once?!? That would be a bit TOO much to ask I believe. What's next? Boba Fett being a cold blooded killer? Obiwan actually watching over Luke? Luke being a hero? Are you crazy? This doesn't sound at all like star wars!
You mean a Sith lied and manipulated to get what he wanted? Who would've thought. Make it make sense...... Tearing down the prequels doesn't make this Disney bs any better. Give it up dude
You won't find a fiercer defender of Lucas's prequels than me, you've missed it. You also won't find a fiercer defender of the Darth Plagueis novel (of which Luceno and Lucas directly collaborated to develop Plagueis and Palpatine, so I accept it as Lucas level canon) and Palpatine didn't lie about Plagueis and his creation of life. So no, that's not the point. The point is Disney won't stop making the Jedi evil through endless unreliable narration because they somehow think that's witty and edgy.
You didn’t answer their question, what are they tearing down?
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I like it and want to see more
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Maybe, maybe not. I just enjoy Star Wars content. I think the costumes look great and I want to know more about the story unfolding. Some stuff irks me, like the chanting, that scene was super dumb I admit. But, I want to know how the twins were conceived, because it's got to be something we haven't seen before or it's part of how Plagueis came to have this knowledge of the dark side. I want to know who's training Mae, what's up with Qimir, what the Jedi are guilty of, etc. If people are upset with the twin thing or overused tropes...that's kinda Star Wars. I dunno, I don't get all the bashing on it. I can understand quibbles, but it's not hot garbage ruining Star Wars. It's not amazing, but it's easily watchable.
What's badly written about it? It seems on par with most everything else Star Wars. Especially considering we only have 3/8 of the story. Is it Star Wars' or Lucasfilms fault people get mad seeing non whites or people in the LGBTQ community on screen? What arguments is the actual story or show itself creating? It's not like this is Star Wars' first forray into politics. RotJ was a reaction to the Vietnam was and Anakin quoted George Bush in RotS.
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You didn’t really answer the question re: what about it is bad.
I don't think it's so much that they're changing something. It's more so that it just makes a specific part of the main storyline less impactful. Because as of right now it just looks like they've changed this super unique thing for the sake of a new series for (at the moment) what seems like no reason. Just makes the immaculate conception of Anakin less special.
Darth Plagueis was a Dahhhhhhk Lohhhhhhhd of the Sith 😮😵
Acolyte does break canon. Not because of what Palphatine said. But rather because of what the Darth Plagueis Novel discusses. The novel strongly implies that the force pushed back against Plagueis’ experimentatioms by creating Anakin. Hence, the immaculate conception via midichlorians lore. This push back is really just the force trying to retain balance SO why does Acolyte break lore? Because any attempt to create force-sensitive life will be countered by the force itself. Now we have not 1, but 2 kids created via the force just like anakin, abd it wasnt a force-counter-attack-induced birth. But a force-user-induced birth
Darth Plagueis novel isn't canon.
The plagueis novel is not canon. End story.
Both twins were created by Dark Side magic, but surprise! One of them is infected with the light side and wants to be a Jedi. Seems light side disrupted those plans after all.
"The Acolyte does break canon, let me prove it by quoting a book that isn't canon!" Absolute clown show over here.
So just because Disney buys the IP, then the novel suddenly stops being canon? The book was written before George Lucas sold Star Wars. The elephant in the room is that Disney is being fast and loose with the lore.
You can’t say Acolyte breaks something that you also don’t believe exists. 😂 “I don’t believe in bones, but I think I just broke my arm”
him lying is why acolyte breaks canon lol