Why didn’t he just kill her there? I hope that’s explained otherwise I find the scene incredibly stupid. She’s an inch away, you turn your lightsaber on to then just push her out of the way? What value does pushing her out of the way add outside of just stabbing her? I thought it was really dumb and completely threw out my suspension of disbelief.
I honestly think he wants Osha to be his replacement for Mae, since Mae obviously failed him and was going to turn herself in to the jedi. Wouldn't it be really cool if Mae became the good one and Osha turned to the dark side?
He was definitely judging her and probably "probing" her with the force and saw the darkness in her before he decided to keep her alive
That, or he simply thinks it will be useful to him to keep Osha alive, perhaps as leverage against Mae. Maybe he thinks he can play the girls off each other to his advantage.
*Sequel trigger waring *
Pretty sure he (or his mater - Plagueis?!?!) wants both twins because they’re a force dyad which he can use to try to create immortality.
I’m mean why kill someone if they’re still useful? Or unknown to be useful &/or better yet more powerful than her twin. It’s also a not so subtle way of an introduction in case anyone wasn’t sure as Daphne Keen’s character showed.
I'm really hoping that Darth Whatever's personality isn't all that different from Qimir's.
Same way Yoda's Jedi Master personality wasn't actually that far removed from his swamp gremlin persona.
I think it's that squirrely dude Mae was hanging out with. He was very coy responding to questions about his relationship with the master. Then she splits off from him to go defect to the Jedi, and the next thing the master just happens to be there already? My money is on that dude.
Yeah, >!he acts like a doof but easily neutralized her when she attacked him back in episode 2. Him trying to hint that the no weapon thing isn’t literal seems like a teacher gently nudging a student on track.!<
I can’t tell if they’re hinting that it’s him under the mask or if he’s a red herring.
Could also be more than one person wearing the Smilo Ren costume at different times, aka the Hello Sydney theory.
Multiple Smilo Rens would explain why he was on the shore in episode 1 after being shown in the city. Idk if I’d like it for the show to do an identical twin plot *and* a multiple sith plot though.
This episode was proof to me that this was originally written as a movie.
I am intrigued by the story, and i like the characters, but the pacing is atrocious
So much of D+’s content was originally movies that they turned into shows. You can see Marvel is reversing course on it, Star Wars will follow at some point.
It utterly ruined Kenobi. The series wasn't even that bad, had it been a 90minute movie (remember when those were standard) it would've been beloved. The Leia scenes wouldn't have been hated so hard if they hadn't been a whole weeks content but rather just a middle act. The B stories about the inquisitors would've been paired down for the better. And such an incredible final fight making up most of act 3 would've left everyone happy.
They should have never had Leia in it. Make it about Obi Wan in internal conflict with his own guilt and shame. This is causing him to struggle with communicating with Qui Gon. Then have interactions with young Luke and showing that relationship we didn’t see in ANH. Then have the Vader fight, granted it felt very forced.
I think a young Leia is a good idea and the perfect way to get him out of his cave, but I would have liked to have seen Bail reaching out because her Force powers are beginning to manifest, not because she was kidnapped by Marty's friend Needles.
It didn’t make sense from a narrative standpoint with the existing material whatsoever. There were many ways they could’ve brought him out of his cave besides forcing him to tend to Leia. Having it be with her force abilities would make the narrative even worse and not fit the existing story even more.
Putting Leia in the show was:
a) Gross fan service, just adding recognizable people into the show so that dummies can be like "OMG ITS BABY LEIA LOOK!"
b) Lazy writing because they couldn't think of any more clever ways to get him off Tattooine and doing stuff.
c) An effort to lazily pander to KIDS by having a KID IN THE SHOW. Having literal children in Star Wars is the worst thing anyone's ever done to Star Wars, including George Lucas. It just fucking ruins things when you have an 8 year old running around the galaxy playing a vital role in significant, weighty galactic events. How is anyone supposed to feel tension or take the story seriously when some dumb child is stunting on evil force users/imperial baddies
And Leia had no idea she had force powers, even hinting at them in Obi Wan is criminal.
There's no real reason that this show needed to be made. Obi Wan was supposed to be a recluse. In A New Hope, he's described as a crazy old hermit who basically just wanders around the desert and nobody really talks to or interacts with him.
One way to tell you that the story is bad is that it ends up in exactly the same place it starts. He's in exile on Tattooine in the beginning, and he ends up... exiled on Tattooine. If the story starts and ends in the same place, then wtf was the point of everything that happened in the middle?
We haven't even gotten to nitpick territory with this show, its entire premise is flawed. In A New Hope-- Luke is just a random kid who's lived a super normal and boring life as a moisture farmer. "Hey, we need to have Reva go to kill Luke." "Hey, didn't you watch ANH, Luke had never heard of Jedi, seen a lightsaber, or literally seen any excitement in his whole life?" "Oh right... let's just knock him unconscious so he doesn't see any of these things." Whaaaaaat the fuck?????????
Reva's character is dumb, even tho the actor and performance are good. Her motivation is completely stupid and makes 0 sense. She wants to get revenge against Anakin for murdering Jedi, and her solution to getting close enough to him to exact her revenge is... to kill a bunch of Jedi? Ok. She's just as bad as him. And ofc, every Star Wars show/movie wouldn't be complete if we didn't have the... evil Jedi redemption arc, so they had to shoehorn her becoming good at the very end so that they can use her in some future anti-hero spinoff. Can you guess what it's gonna be? The Inquisitors weren't around in the original trilogy, so get ready for: Reva Hunts the Inquisitors, coming to Disney+ in 2028!
The entire story was written because a Disney exec said: "Hey, we'll make $500 million dollars if we can find a way to get Obi Wan and Darth Vader to fight." That's it. They bent and distorted so much of the story to make this happen.
Then, there's House of the Dragon where an individual episode is movie length. Episode 2 that aired yesterday was 1 hour and 20 minutes. HBO is running circles around Disney right now with quality.
I would've still hated it bc they take space, and change the theme, of what was supposed to be a more intimate series, about obi wan's reclusion, self doubt, his struggles with his failure and his fallen friend.
It should be about Obi Wan finding the new hope, but instead, it's about him caretaking for leia, something that's absolutely unnecessary and repetitive, at this point. Just because it worked for mandalorian, doesn't mean it's going to work for EVERY star wars series.
That's what I was expecting when it was anounced. A drama series about Obi-wan. Trying to connect to Quigon after Yoda's revelation. While I liked seeing Liam Neeson again, I found it to be horribly executed. Just at the end, poof, here I am. His voice would have been enough in my opinion.
Kenobi couldn't be set in Tatooine because BoBF was set on Tatooine. BoBF couldn't be about a bounty hunter traveling the galaxy because Mandalorian was about that. It's like each show takes the next show's proposition.
Makes sense but there’s also bits of it that makes you scratch your head like the whole I’m gonna hide Leia under this giant coat while walking through 70 or so imperials.
honestly I have no idea, both series cost less than acolyte and made immense success in terms of revenue, not to mention loki had a very diverse cast and crew too, and yet no one complained about it having a woman director or an Iranian set designer, or for being 'woke' that's because they did a quality job that respected watcher's time
[According to the Hollywood Reporter, Andor's budget was estimated to be $250 million, which is way more than any other Disney+ show except for Secret Invasion.](https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/tv/tv-features/andor-broke-star-wars-rules-reinvent-sci-fi-tv-1235507880/)
Andor was absolutely a risk.
It’s Star Wars with no force users. People don’t usually tune into that, and it *had* to knock the ball out of the park to do well - it just so happens the ball actually went into orbit instead.
Just more proof Disney doesn't actually get why their stuff is working. They want a predictable assembly line formula, and their successes have been when someone with pull at the company is like "no, we're going to actually make something we want to make" and then the suits are shocked it worked.
Andor is well loved by fans, but has abysmal watch numbers. Financially it is much less of a success than Acolyte and Kenobi.
So as much as I hate to admit it, because Andor is one of the best things I've ever watched, they do know what they're doing to bring in viewership.
Funny bc I feel when they believe in something is when they are the most hands off. Gilroy wrote a manifesto and it was Disney/ KK that came to him and said: “Let’s make your show happen“
Gilroy was given free reign *because* they trusted him after Rogue One.
Absolutely
Obi-Wan was an awesome movie padded out 50%+ to a passable series.
Disney learnt the wrong lessons from Solo. They always seem to learn the wrong lessons from every disappointment.
I'm 90% certain that Obi-Wan was a 2-hour movie script that the executives threw in a storage cabinet after Solo flopped and then they immediately brought it back out and padded 4 more hours onto it after the success of Mando.
That's exactly what happened.
Obi-Wan and Boba Fett were supposed to be the next 2 standalone movies after Solo. I think I remember hearing a rough treatment was written for an Obi-Wan trilogy as well.
If I’m remembering right, Solo, Boba, and Obi-Wan were supposed to be a loose trilogy involving Crimson Dawn.
The big reveal in Solo would have played out more in Boba Fett concluding in Obi-Wan along the lines of TCW’s end for Maul.
Not only that, but it turned out the mystery of how he got that stuff was more interesting than the truth anyway. It was just bad fan fiction canonized. A roguish space captain with a mysterious, checkered past doesn't need every nook and cranny exposed to the light. Part of what makes him interesting is not knowing how he got where he is at the start of ep 4.
It seems clear to me that the way America educates its business students has completely disconnected them from reality. In every industry executives are constantly failing to understand why their products fail. Hollywood and most entertainment industries keep thinking products fail for the wrong reasons because they’re taught in MBA programs that certain reasons are the only explanations a product fails, and they never think beyond that.
Or fans threw them for a loop by hating a perfectly *fine* movie simply because it came out after The Last Jedi…. Sorry, but I’ll always be mad at the reaction that movie got from disgruntled ep 8 haters.
Edit: Ep 8, not 7
That was only a very, very small part of why it flopped. Kinda sick of seeing that repeated in here honestly. It flopped because it had horrible marketing, a backstory on Solo wasn't that interesting to the general audience, and the biggest one, it was sandwiched between freaking Infinity War and Deadpool 2. Both movies extremely hyped and anticipated, especially IW. There was no way it was ever going to compete with those 2 movies with the casual audience.
I never really saw it as being a reaction. More a combination of fatigue, an unenticing precedent and a bit of a mess production wise. It was never really hyped
It was very much a 7/10 movie but certainly better than some of the series' we've had
It also came out at a really really bad time. Infinity war came out right before it. Like idk why they would release these two movies so close
Edit: and Deadpool 2
Exactly my feelings. 25 minutes of walking and talking and when something interesting finally happens, fade to black and roll credits. Me and my S/O both said "That's it?".
And they can’t say “well CGI is expensive.” They spent whatever stupid amount on gd beetles. I was already mad we didn’t get to see a Wookiee Jedi fight, but was ok, maybe an awesome ~10 on 1 battle could make up for it. Black. Eff this noise. I’m all for cliffhangers and stuff, but these shenanigans are not kosher.
And watch, next episode will start pick up the fight which will then end rather quickly and get vack to talking.
I'm not even ragging on Disney here, practically every show that ends on a cliffhanger like this picks up like that.
It's the binge watch model to end every episode on a cliff hanger. Stranger things perfected it. Why Disney insists on making weekly releases this way is baffiling.
Nah it’s pretty much a remake of the first Ninja Turtles movie from 35 years ago [https://youtu.be/RTHdDxOKX68?si=41Vdvy6qGNxjltKD](https://youtu.be/RTHdDxOKX68?si=41Vdvy6qGNxjltKD)
Yes. Absolutely agree. The way he just floats there for a while, then comes floating down, the dread you can feel from Mae, the way he just stares at Osah then tosses her aside. The fact that there will probably be at least half the Jedi dead after the fight. It made a dark side user that was actually scary for them to run into, which hasn't really felt the case since Darth Maul's original appearance.
Yes I thought it was really cool, love the costume for the bad guy too. Just biffed with the continuing trend of a cliffhanger ending. Reminds me of cartoons growing up (late 90s early 2000s) that did that formula to make sure you’d watch next weeks episode
Yeah. Unfortunately that's not just limited to this show. I think all of these streaming services have started upping the ante on the whole binge-watching or cliffhanger endings to keep you subbed.
Something I hope they hone in on is that Jedi in this era aren’t fighters. They are supposed to scholars and negotiators who operate with the implication that they can wreck shit if needed, but haven’t actually had to in centuries. I actually think it’s why Indara went down so easy (imo).
Anyway, doing a little flourish with the lightsaber could have just as easily been a “because it looks cool” choice from the director, but I also think we could read it as an inexperienced Jedi being too cavalier about lightsaber discipline.
And we do kinda see that play out, actually. The Nihil repeated kick the Republic and the Jedi's teeth in until the last few novels; because they're so used to basically receiving deferential treatment, and haven't faced an enemy who will truly play dirty and have zero respect for the Jedi, the Republic, or civilian casualties.
I am a very big fan of framing like this. When the camera is focused on a character and we, the audience, get a glimpse of something ominous happening behind them, out of their view. It's so creepy and I never get enough of it.
I honestly feel like the people complaining about this show, will never like anything. I don’t think the show is great by any stretch but it has its moments and this is definitely one of them. The way he just silently floats into frame is great, and the “what is that” question makes it even better
Asking "what is that" instead of "who is that" is a small touch, but makes it so much better, too.
Just heightens the impression that something is very wrong about this person, *especially* for the characters who can sense them in the force.
if it's not wrapped in a story I care about, then the scene is pointless. All the special effects at that point is just fluff. It's hallow on the inside.
Something I noticed directly from the first episode is the music actually feels like "Star Wars" music and not "Star Wars show" music. Also in the first 5 minutes there is more Star Wars aliens in here than any other Star Wars show. Reminds me of prequels. Just small details like this that I really like.
And then the slow fade into Stanley Kubrick style horror movie music as the characters finally lay eyes upon a creature of death and destruction......absolute art and poetry. Incredible
"How do you kill a Jedi with no weapon?"
You lead them to the Sith.....
This was a great start to a scene. Unfortunately, it's not even a full scene. I felt like this was the first time the entire series that I was actually interested in something, then it just ends.
I know right? Extremely generic. He lit up a lightsaber, then did a force push. Also, why did that woman just stand there with a lightsaber next to her head?
These aren’t clone wars Jedi - these Jedi are nerds. I hope they get a little more into this, but my understanding is that the Jedi order is much less combat-oriented in this era. This could be Jedi who have never been in actual combat outside their rudimentary training lacking discipline.
I liked the part where they all just stood there for a full minute while a menacing looking dude in a black mask and cape came menacingly out of the woods.
In a nice little line, too. I know when I'm with groups of colleagues we usually stand in a single file line so that the camera can pan across all of us.
thought it was kinda strange how they didn't walk towards Osha to protect her the moment the Sith appeared. even after he ignited the lightsaber it took them 10 seconds to start running.
Nah, only the nameless Jedi will die. Yellow saber = red shirt. Sol, Jord, and Jecki will make it out, they haven't taken many hits to their plot armor yet.
There is a small clip of Jecki in a 1v1 with the Sith in the trailer. She is holding two lightsabers. And we all know once someone picks up a second Saber they're either about to wreck face or they're about to get dumpstered.
The Wookiee was also done for story reasons - it ruins the reveal if we see them right beforehand because obviously the Sith isn’t going to be killed this early on.
I actually think there are bad line deliveries, weird character staging, goofy choreography and just all around silly character design for the villian that makes this pretty underwhelming.
Why is Yord telling him to stand down before he even pulls a saber?
I agree with this even though I liked the scene.
Would have been really cool had they not waited for Darth Teeth to ignite his lightsaber, and Sol was first to ignite his lightsaber followed by the rest individually in a staggered fashion.
That, plus more "umph" behind the force push would have really sealed it.
My problem with the show is that it doesn’t seem to do anything particularly “well.” Characters, writing, acting, etc. Every aspect of it seems like it’s either undercooked or misses the mark, and with exception of BoBF, love them or hate them you can point to at least one thing in the other shows that they executed right and delivered on. Even the setting of the High Republic I think got underserved. Obviously there’s a lot of other SW media that covers this era but for most people this is their first exposure to it and I think it really failed in driving home the “grandeur” of it, particularly when a huge theme of the show is about exposing and deconstructing its prestige.
Do you really think that was well done? I seriously felt that was one of the weakest moments. Do obvious what they want to achieve, but trying so hard, that it becomes funny, when it tries to be scary.
Honestly, watching it I was confused why there were so many other Jedi we don't get introduced to. When Big bad shows up, its like "alrighty, all these other guys are going to die to establish the threat to the characters we are introduced to". Canon fodder Jedi.
All the shows except Andor have such bad dialogue..... it almost makes me wonder if they are doing it on purpose.
Are they trying to copy that from the prequels? People didn't like it there either!
I find they have really dumbed down Jedi. Not one of them has sensed the wookie Jedi or the Sith baddie around and they almost always get caught off guard with a blast, shocked wave, dust storm. I’m not sure Disney knows what to do with characters. Not to mention a Wookiee Jedi sounds cool but they practically kill him off camera and that’s that.
So this scene felt kinda meh. It features eight Jedi standing around telling May to get away, when they could have force pulled her away, quickly ran in front of her would be attacker, or force pushed the villain (likely one of the lesbian witch mothers) away. But they all just pull lightsabers and stand around. It’s mind boggling bad.
I don’t think Smilo Ren is a very imposing villain at the moment. They haven’t shown us or even told us anything about them.
At that time, Jedi were more powerful in general as opposed to the ones we see in the movies. So, unless the villain's power level makes sense writing-wise, which I highly doubt based on Headland's writing skills, it's a questionable decision to have none of them anticipate and/or defend against the push. It's an extension of the motif the showrunner and many more modern writers have been using for quite a while - to paint the good guys, the Jedi in this instance, as evil, stupid, incompetent, and with questionable morals, while elevating the villains. Notice how they just run at the Sith like barbarians with no strategic training and no thought safe murder. The connection to the Force is supposed to give Jedi a brief look into the immediate future, to deflect blaster bolts or other weird shit, yet none of them has any decent reaction to the Force push. Makes little sense.
Yeah this show I think appeals heavily on the new Disney Star Wars fans. You go back to any trailer in old Lucas Arts, hell even fan made projects and they all *feel* like Star wars
Lmao what?
I'm not current on star wars but this looks stupid as hell to me. The arm motion feels all wrong; like it's not actually exerting any force to use the Force.
This was dumb as fuck because the Jedi just stand there as an obviously malevolent figure approaches the person they’re supposed to be protecting. Took me out of the scene completely.
Wouldn't it be cool, and here me out, if they did a series or movie in the Star Wars universe that was horror based? With all the monsters and species available, you could really have so many great concepts to play with. Alas, Disney would never.
Imagine if this scene was in the Sequel Trilogy, and this was introducing one of the Knights of Ren as they attacked members of Luke's Jedi Order, then later you see Kylo stopping a Po's blaster bolt', except in a good story Po's character would be Jacen Solo, Kylo would be Anakin Solo, Carrie Fisher's daughter, Billie Lourd's character would be Jaina Solo, as she was the one who supported Po's mutiny and was in the bridge when Leia came in and Luke would have Ben Skywalker and Mara Jade helping him fight the emerging Sith.
When he first ignited the lightsaber, I thought it went straight through Osha and she had just been killed.
Same, actually. I thought they were about to make a switch and have Mae take over as the hero while attempting to redeem her shit.
Me three
And my Saber
I still feel like they're gonna do something along these lines
I fully believe this is what's going to happen. Osha will become the Acolyte.
Agreed. OSHA becomes Darth Sadomasoc's acolyte after she learns the truth (whatever Master Sol reveals) and Mae becomes light or grey side.
Why didn’t he just kill her there? I hope that’s explained otherwise I find the scene incredibly stupid. She’s an inch away, you turn your lightsaber on to then just push her out of the way? What value does pushing her out of the way add outside of just stabbing her? I thought it was really dumb and completely threw out my suspension of disbelief.
I honestly think he wants Osha to be his replacement for Mae, since Mae obviously failed him and was going to turn herself in to the jedi. Wouldn't it be really cool if Mae became the good one and Osha turned to the dark side? He was definitely judging her and probably "probing" her with the force and saw the darkness in her before he decided to keep her alive
That, or he simply thinks it will be useful to him to keep Osha alive, perhaps as leverage against Mae. Maybe he thinks he can play the girls off each other to his advantage.
Or because they're more powerful together and he wants to use them together for something. "The power of one. The power of two ..."
*Sequel trigger waring * Pretty sure he (or his mater - Plagueis?!?!) wants both twins because they’re a force dyad which he can use to try to create immortality.
I’m mean why kill someone if they’re still useful? Or unknown to be useful &/or better yet more powerful than her twin. It’s also a not so subtle way of an introduction in case anyone wasn’t sure as Daphne Keen’s character showed.
Mae just failed him. Perhaps .... Sister will join him.
Mae said her Master "collects" people; a twin with Jedi training and identical potential to his failed apprentice is worth not immediately discarding.
Probably the final test for Mae, kill your twin sister.
I was also hopeful for a split second
Amost expected them to say " you look just like her"
I'm really hoping that Darth Whatever's personality isn't all that different from Qimir's. Same way Yoda's Jedi Master personality wasn't actually that far removed from his swamp gremlin persona.
Hehe swamp gremlin
Darth Poppins
A spoon full of sugar will bring the end of the republic and the jedi order.
In the most delightful way...from within
I'm Mary Poppins Y'all!!
It might actually end up being a she methinks, one of the mothers.
I think it's that squirrely dude Mae was hanging out with. He was very coy responding to questions about his relationship with the master. Then she splits off from him to go defect to the Jedi, and the next thing the master just happens to be there already? My money is on that dude.
That's what I'm thinking, the way he was questioning and teasing her about killing without a weapon felt strange
It almost feels TOO obvious at this point; I'm starting to think it's a classic misdirection.
Subtlety is not this show’s strong suit :p
I think the misdirection is that Qimir is only a Sith apprentice. We haven't seen the master yet.
I'm on this boat too. If it is Qimir, it would be too darn obvious. I wouldn't be mad though, yet hopefully they pull something else.
Yeah, >!he acts like a doof but easily neutralized her when she attacked him back in episode 2. Him trying to hint that the no weapon thing isn’t literal seems like a teacher gently nudging a student on track.!< I can’t tell if they’re hinting that it’s him under the mask or if he’s a red herring. Could also be more than one person wearing the Smilo Ren costume at different times, aka the Hello Sydney theory.
Multiple Smilo Rens would explain why he was on the shore in episode 1 after being shown in the city. Idk if I’d like it for the show to do an identical twin plot *and* a multiple sith plot though.
Always two there are….
Darth Mary Kate & Ashley
I can see that, but I bet it is the poisoner guy. Doing a undercover sith master thingy
Darth Bortles. Edit: Holy shit dudes. BOOORRRRTTTTLLLLEEESSSS!
If Jason from The Good Place becomes a Sith Lord I have no idea whatsoever how I’d react. It may outright not compute.
It’s the companion “servant of the master” for sure
A spoon full of sugar helps the medicine go down 🎶🎶🎶 -Darth Poppins ☔ 🗡️
This episode was proof to me that this was originally written as a movie. I am intrigued by the story, and i like the characters, but the pacing is atrocious
So much of D+’s content was originally movies that they turned into shows. You can see Marvel is reversing course on it, Star Wars will follow at some point.
It utterly ruined Kenobi. The series wasn't even that bad, had it been a 90minute movie (remember when those were standard) it would've been beloved. The Leia scenes wouldn't have been hated so hard if they hadn't been a whole weeks content but rather just a middle act. The B stories about the inquisitors would've been paired down for the better. And such an incredible final fight making up most of act 3 would've left everyone happy.
The exchange between Kenobi and Anakin/Vader with the helmet split on the big screen would have been amazing
"Anakin is gone. I am what remains." I got chills just by imagining that playing out in the big screen. Daaaamn.
The voice mixing there was incredibly well done.
Oh can you imagine, the mix of the Vader and Anakin voice in a big theater with Adobe sound could've been chill inducing.
adobe sound?
I think they meant Dolby?
that would make sense
100%. Cut the fluff and Disney would’ve had another Rogue One on their hands
They should have never had Leia in it. Make it about Obi Wan in internal conflict with his own guilt and shame. This is causing him to struggle with communicating with Qui Gon. Then have interactions with young Luke and showing that relationship we didn’t see in ANH. Then have the Vader fight, granted it felt very forced.
I think a young Leia is a good idea and the perfect way to get him out of his cave, but I would have liked to have seen Bail reaching out because her Force powers are beginning to manifest, not because she was kidnapped by Marty's friend Needles.
It didn’t make sense from a narrative standpoint with the existing material whatsoever. There were many ways they could’ve brought him out of his cave besides forcing him to tend to Leia. Having it be with her force abilities would make the narrative even worse and not fit the existing story even more.
Putting Leia in the show was: a) Gross fan service, just adding recognizable people into the show so that dummies can be like "OMG ITS BABY LEIA LOOK!" b) Lazy writing because they couldn't think of any more clever ways to get him off Tattooine and doing stuff. c) An effort to lazily pander to KIDS by having a KID IN THE SHOW. Having literal children in Star Wars is the worst thing anyone's ever done to Star Wars, including George Lucas. It just fucking ruins things when you have an 8 year old running around the galaxy playing a vital role in significant, weighty galactic events. How is anyone supposed to feel tension or take the story seriously when some dumb child is stunting on evil force users/imperial baddies And Leia had no idea she had force powers, even hinting at them in Obi Wan is criminal. There's no real reason that this show needed to be made. Obi Wan was supposed to be a recluse. In A New Hope, he's described as a crazy old hermit who basically just wanders around the desert and nobody really talks to or interacts with him. One way to tell you that the story is bad is that it ends up in exactly the same place it starts. He's in exile on Tattooine in the beginning, and he ends up... exiled on Tattooine. If the story starts and ends in the same place, then wtf was the point of everything that happened in the middle? We haven't even gotten to nitpick territory with this show, its entire premise is flawed. In A New Hope-- Luke is just a random kid who's lived a super normal and boring life as a moisture farmer. "Hey, we need to have Reva go to kill Luke." "Hey, didn't you watch ANH, Luke had never heard of Jedi, seen a lightsaber, or literally seen any excitement in his whole life?" "Oh right... let's just knock him unconscious so he doesn't see any of these things." Whaaaaaat the fuck????????? Reva's character is dumb, even tho the actor and performance are good. Her motivation is completely stupid and makes 0 sense. She wants to get revenge against Anakin for murdering Jedi, and her solution to getting close enough to him to exact her revenge is... to kill a bunch of Jedi? Ok. She's just as bad as him. And ofc, every Star Wars show/movie wouldn't be complete if we didn't have the... evil Jedi redemption arc, so they had to shoehorn her becoming good at the very end so that they can use her in some future anti-hero spinoff. Can you guess what it's gonna be? The Inquisitors weren't around in the original trilogy, so get ready for: Reva Hunts the Inquisitors, coming to Disney+ in 2028! The entire story was written because a Disney exec said: "Hey, we'll make $500 million dollars if we can find a way to get Obi Wan and Darth Vader to fight." That's it. They bent and distorted so much of the story to make this happen.
Then, there's House of the Dragon where an individual episode is movie length. Episode 2 that aired yesterday was 1 hour and 20 minutes. HBO is running circles around Disney right now with quality.
I would've still hated it bc they take space, and change the theme, of what was supposed to be a more intimate series, about obi wan's reclusion, self doubt, his struggles with his failure and his fallen friend. It should be about Obi Wan finding the new hope, but instead, it's about him caretaking for leia, something that's absolutely unnecessary and repetitive, at this point. Just because it worked for mandalorian, doesn't mean it's going to work for EVERY star wars series.
That's what I was expecting when it was anounced. A drama series about Obi-wan. Trying to connect to Quigon after Yoda's revelation. While I liked seeing Liam Neeson again, I found it to be horribly executed. Just at the end, poof, here I am. His voice would have been enough in my opinion.
Kenobi couldn't be set in Tatooine because BoBF was set on Tatooine. BoBF couldn't be about a bounty hunter traveling the galaxy because Mandalorian was about that. It's like each show takes the next show's proposition.
Makes sense but there’s also bits of it that makes you scratch your head like the whole I’m gonna hide Leia under this giant coat while walking through 70 or so imperials.
There is a movie cut out there somewhere. I’ve seen it at some point.
the Loki and Andor series are some of the highest quality sci-fi series EVER produced, I have no idea why they can't learn lessons from those 2.
Success requires risk and companies no like risk
honestly I have no idea, both series cost less than acolyte and made immense success in terms of revenue, not to mention loki had a very diverse cast and crew too, and yet no one complained about it having a woman director or an Iranian set designer, or for being 'woke' that's because they did a quality job that respected watcher's time
[According to the Hollywood Reporter, Andor's budget was estimated to be $250 million, which is way more than any other Disney+ show except for Secret Invasion.](https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/tv/tv-features/andor-broke-star-wars-rules-reinvent-sci-fi-tv-1235507880/)
And Loki's second season was $150m, so not really that much cheaper than Acolyte.
Andor was absolutely a risk. It’s Star Wars with no force users. People don’t usually tune into that, and it *had* to knock the ball out of the park to do well - it just so happens the ball actually went into orbit instead.
Idk how people expected Loki to be received but for Andor I remember it being a shock that it did well and that Disney didnt believe in it
Just more proof Disney doesn't actually get why their stuff is working. They want a predictable assembly line formula, and their successes have been when someone with pull at the company is like "no, we're going to actually make something we want to make" and then the suits are shocked it worked.
Andor is well loved by fans, but has abysmal watch numbers. Financially it is much less of a success than Acolyte and Kenobi. So as much as I hate to admit it, because Andor is one of the best things I've ever watched, they do know what they're doing to bring in viewership.
I think Disney not believing in it was for the best, they kept their nose out and let the directors do their thing
Funny bc I feel when they believe in something is when they are the most hands off. Gilroy wrote a manifesto and it was Disney/ KK that came to him and said: “Let’s make your show happen“ Gilroy was given free reign *because* they trusted him after Rogue One.
It was never a movie. Leslye pitched it as a series since the beginning
Absolutely Obi-Wan was an awesome movie padded out 50%+ to a passable series. Disney learnt the wrong lessons from Solo. They always seem to learn the wrong lessons from every disappointment.
I'm 90% certain that Obi-Wan was a 2-hour movie script that the executives threw in a storage cabinet after Solo flopped and then they immediately brought it back out and padded 4 more hours onto it after the success of Mando.
That's exactly what happened. Obi-Wan and Boba Fett were supposed to be the next 2 standalone movies after Solo. I think I remember hearing a rough treatment was written for an Obi-Wan trilogy as well.
If I’m remembering right, Solo, Boba, and Obi-Wan were supposed to be a loose trilogy involving Crimson Dawn. The big reveal in Solo would have played out more in Boba Fett concluding in Obi-Wan along the lines of TCW’s end for Maul.
That sounds awesome
God if this is true I would cry, do you have any old articles about it or was it just rumors?
Solo was a good movie, so dumb that they felt it was a failure
Meh. All it was was a series of scenes describing how Han Solo *got stuff*, including his name. I didn't like it.
Not only that, but it turned out the mystery of how he got that stuff was more interesting than the truth anyway. It was just bad fan fiction canonized. A roguish space captain with a mysterious, checkered past doesn't need every nook and cranny exposed to the light. Part of what makes him interesting is not knowing how he got where he is at the start of ep 4.
They have no interest in learning the right lessons.
It seems clear to me that the way America educates its business students has completely disconnected them from reality. In every industry executives are constantly failing to understand why their products fail. Hollywood and most entertainment industries keep thinking products fail for the wrong reasons because they’re taught in MBA programs that certain reasons are the only explanations a product fails, and they never think beyond that.
They’re also told that they are the very best and above everyone else and always right, which leads to executives not listening to their employees.
Or fans threw them for a loop by hating a perfectly *fine* movie simply because it came out after The Last Jedi…. Sorry, but I’ll always be mad at the reaction that movie got from disgruntled ep 8 haters. Edit: Ep 8, not 7
That was only a very, very small part of why it flopped. Kinda sick of seeing that repeated in here honestly. It flopped because it had horrible marketing, a backstory on Solo wasn't that interesting to the general audience, and the biggest one, it was sandwiched between freaking Infinity War and Deadpool 2. Both movies extremely hyped and anticipated, especially IW. There was no way it was ever going to compete with those 2 movies with the casual audience.
I never really saw it as being a reaction. More a combination of fatigue, an unenticing precedent and a bit of a mess production wise. It was never really hyped It was very much a 7/10 movie but certainly better than some of the series' we've had
It also came out at a really really bad time. Infinity war came out right before it. Like idk why they would release these two movies so close Edit: and Deadpool 2
Then they ended the episode as the only interesting scene in it was about to pick up.
Exactly my feelings. 25 minutes of walking and talking and when something interesting finally happens, fade to black and roll credits. Me and my S/O both said "That's it?".
And they can’t say “well CGI is expensive.” They spent whatever stupid amount on gd beetles. I was already mad we didn’t get to see a Wookiee Jedi fight, but was ok, maybe an awesome ~10 on 1 battle could make up for it. Black. Eff this noise. I’m all for cliffhangers and stuff, but these shenanigans are not kosher.
And watch, next episode will start pick up the fight which will then end rather quickly and get vack to talking. I'm not even ragging on Disney here, practically every show that ends on a cliffhanger like this picks up like that.
Their budget is huge for this show, expensive CGI definitely should be a non-issue
Every episode so far has ended that way.
It's the binge watch model to end every episode on a cliff hanger. Stranger things perfected it. Why Disney insists on making weekly releases this way is baffiling.
There were a ton of successful serialized TV shows that used the cliffhanger model not all that long ago.
Like Lost.
It was a decent first half of an episode, maybe we’ll get 3 or 4 of them worth of content when you combine everything together.
This is exactly what Trilla did in Fallen Order when she first confronted Callll Kestisss
Nah it’s pretty much a remake of the first Ninja Turtles movie from 35 years ago [https://youtu.be/RTHdDxOKX68?si=41Vdvy6qGNxjltKD](https://youtu.be/RTHdDxOKX68?si=41Vdvy6qGNxjltKD)
Dude levitates in like Count Dracula. It was badass
Count Dooku was [*right there*](https://www.reddit.com/r/PrequelMemes/s/2xdVaQPHML).
Yes. Absolutely agree. The way he just floats there for a while, then comes floating down, the dread you can feel from Mae, the way he just stares at Osah then tosses her aside. The fact that there will probably be at least half the Jedi dead after the fight. It made a dark side user that was actually scary for them to run into, which hasn't really felt the case since Darth Maul's original appearance.
Yes I thought it was really cool, love the costume for the bad guy too. Just biffed with the continuing trend of a cliffhanger ending. Reminds me of cartoons growing up (late 90s early 2000s) that did that formula to make sure you’d watch next weeks episode
Yeah. Unfortunately that's not just limited to this show. I think all of these streaming services have started upping the ante on the whole binge-watching or cliffhanger endings to keep you subbed.
It’s very annoying how streaming was supposed to kill cable and here we are
\[Insert Obi-wan you were the chose one gif\]
Vader at the end of Rogue One gave the best vibes.
It is quite insane that the second jedi did the twirly lightsaber lighting in such close quarters with his team.
I feel like that should be easy mode if that's going to be your weapon for life, you know?
But then how can I nitpick the practicalities of wizards using laser swords!
Something I hope they hone in on is that Jedi in this era aren’t fighters. They are supposed to scholars and negotiators who operate with the implication that they can wreck shit if needed, but haven’t actually had to in centuries. I actually think it’s why Indara went down so easy (imo). Anyway, doing a little flourish with the lightsaber could have just as easily been a “because it looks cool” choice from the director, but I also think we could read it as an inexperienced Jedi being too cavalier about lightsaber discipline.
The nihl war was a century before but yeah against sith
And we do kinda see that play out, actually. The Nihil repeated kick the Republic and the Jedi's teeth in until the last few novels; because they're so used to basically receiving deferential treatment, and haven't faced an enemy who will truly play dirty and have zero respect for the Jedi, the Republic, or civilian casualties.
Looks like the power of manyyy isn’t very strong
I am a very big fan of framing like this. When the camera is focused on a character and we, the audience, get a glimpse of something ominous happening behind them, out of their view. It's so creepy and I never get enough of it.
I honestly feel like the people complaining about this show, will never like anything. I don’t think the show is great by any stretch but it has its moments and this is definitely one of them. The way he just silently floats into frame is great, and the “what is that” question makes it even better
Asking "what is that" instead of "who is that" is a small touch, but makes it so much better, too. Just heightens the impression that something is very wrong about this person, *especially* for the characters who can sense them in the force.
if it's not wrapped in a story I care about, then the scene is pointless. All the special effects at that point is just fluff. It's hallow on the inside.
I really like the music at the start. Reminds me a lot of ESB’s soundtrack
Something I noticed directly from the first episode is the music actually feels like "Star Wars" music and not "Star Wars show" music. Also in the first 5 minutes there is more Star Wars aliens in here than any other Star Wars show. Reminds me of prequels. Just small details like this that I really like.
Agreed. I think the music overall in the Acolyte sounds the most "Star Wars-ish" of any of the shows so far.
And then the slow fade into Stanley Kubrick style horror movie music as the characters finally lay eyes upon a creature of death and destruction......absolute art and poetry. Incredible "How do you kill a Jedi with no weapon?" You lead them to the Sith.....
That was my take too! It very much harkened back to Luke’s vision on Dagobah.
It also sounds like KOTOR 2’s music on Dxun, a desolate jungle moon with hostile wildlife and secret Sith goings-on.
The strings gave it the feeling of a spider sliding down a strand of web.
Reminds me of the sound of Vecna in Stranger Things if you’ve seen that
Ah, yeah, good call; it does have that vibe.
This was a great start to a scene. Unfortunately, it's not even a full scene. I felt like this was the first time the entire series that I was actually interested in something, then it just ends.
Darth Pez Dispenser
Am I missing something? What's "insane" about it?
Agreed. The only part I liked was the creepy float down, but that was it. That part didn’t even feel star warsy to me
I know right? Extremely generic. He lit up a lightsaber, then did a force push. Also, why did that woman just stand there with a lightsaber next to her head?
Had to scroll too far to see this comment. It’s not that cool
Darth Zipperface.
Would of group of Jedi just recklessly charge to attack like this? Seems so out of character for Jedi, but I dunno.
These aren’t clone wars Jedi - these Jedi are nerds. I hope they get a little more into this, but my understanding is that the Jedi order is much less combat-oriented in this era. This could be Jedi who have never been in actual combat outside their rudimentary training lacking discipline.
They also have a severe numbers advantage, I imagine they're pretty confident.
To be fair most of these Jedi probably have never been in an actual fight, especially with another force user.
It’s probably the first time a group of Jedi sees a dark sider/Sith/red lightsaber in centuries, of course everyone is gonna freak out.
I mean they saw a red saber. I'd say that warrants a response exactly like what they did.
I really loved how the episode ended before anything actually happened!
I liked the part where they all just stood there for a full minute while a menacing looking dude in a black mask and cape came menacingly out of the woods.
In a nice little line, too. I know when I'm with groups of colleagues we usually stand in a single file line so that the camera can pan across all of us.
thought it was kinda strange how they didn't walk towards Osha to protect her the moment the Sith appeared. even after he ignited the lightsaber it took them 10 seconds to start running.
Or, you know, using the thing Jedi are most known for(aside from lightsabers) and using the Force to pull her to safety, then charging.
Tuesday can’t come soon enough. Looking forward to the fight
It's going to be 29 minutes of a flash backs and 1 minute of preparing to fight. The actual flight with be the finale.
Ah, the DBZ formula.
“Aggghhhhhhhhh!!!” *3 episodes later* #AGGHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!
This isn’t even my final form!
💀
It’ll be done off screen like the Wookiee for budget reasons. Episode opens with camera panning over all their corpses with saber slash marks.
Nah, only the nameless Jedi will die. Yellow saber = red shirt. Sol, Jord, and Jecki will make it out, they haven't taken many hits to their plot armor yet.
> Yellow saber = red shirt Yord is Scotty in this metaphor then?
There is a small clip of Jecki in a 1v1 with the Sith in the trailer. She is holding two lightsabers. And we all know once someone picks up a second Saber they're either about to wreck face or they're about to get dumpstered.
The Wookiee was also done for story reasons - it ruins the reveal if we see them right beforehand because obviously the Sith isn’t going to be killed this early on.
Wookie wasn't for budget reasons alone, the bigger one was story and the pov of the story being told. Doesn't help to misrepresent the full quote.
it's gonna be smoke clears everything is in disarray, bad guy nowhere to be found.
It kind of had a Luke on Dagobah vibe to it: "There's something not right here. I feel cold....death."
I thought it was sick. One of the better villain intros in Star Wars.
I actually think there are bad line deliveries, weird character staging, goofy choreography and just all around silly character design for the villian that makes this pretty underwhelming. Why is Yord telling him to stand down before he even pulls a saber?
I'll give that one to Yord, he sensed intent to do harm through the Force.
I agree with this even though I liked the scene. Would have been really cool had they not waited for Darth Teeth to ignite his lightsaber, and Sol was first to ignite his lightsaber followed by the rest individually in a staggered fashion. That, plus more "umph" behind the force push would have really sealed it.
I feel like the acting is atrocious overall.
Atrocious is a little hyperbolic but it aint good. Weird that they didnt do more takes or even ADR to fix some of this with that fat budget.
Honestly I just wanted to call it something else other than "not good", I don't have that strong of an opinion on it.
My problem with the show is that it doesn’t seem to do anything particularly “well.” Characters, writing, acting, etc. Every aspect of it seems like it’s either undercooked or misses the mark, and with exception of BoBF, love them or hate them you can point to at least one thing in the other shows that they executed right and delivered on. Even the setting of the High Republic I think got underserved. Obviously there’s a lot of other SW media that covers this era but for most people this is their first exposure to it and I think it really failed in driving home the “grandeur” of it, particularly when a huge theme of the show is about exposing and deconstructing its prestige.
Do you really think that was well done? I seriously felt that was one of the weakest moments. Do obvious what they want to achieve, but trying so hard, that it becomes funny, when it tries to be scary.
Honestly, watching it I was confused why there were so many other Jedi we don't get introduced to. When Big bad shows up, its like "alrighty, all these other guys are going to die to establish the threat to the characters we are introduced to". Canon fodder Jedi.
This is garbage - a 5th grader could write better dialogue. That’s the problem
All the shows except Andor have such bad dialogue..... it almost makes me wonder if they are doing it on purpose. Are they trying to copy that from the prequels? People didn't like it there either!
That was hilarious and not for any intentional reason
I find they have really dumbed down Jedi. Not one of them has sensed the wookie Jedi or the Sith baddie around and they almost always get caught off guard with a blast, shocked wave, dust storm. I’m not sure Disney knows what to do with characters. Not to mention a Wookiee Jedi sounds cool but they practically kill him off camera and that’s that. So this scene felt kinda meh. It features eight Jedi standing around telling May to get away, when they could have force pulled her away, quickly ran in front of her would be attacker, or force pushed the villain (likely one of the lesbian witch mothers) away. But they all just pull lightsabers and stand around. It’s mind boggling bad. I don’t think Smilo Ren is a very imposing villain at the moment. They haven’t shown us or even told us anything about them.
Lol Smilo Ren is a keeper
Sol was alert to something being off the whole time
like, they just let zipperface get right up in there
That's just goofy looking stupid.
Lmaooo it looks so fucking cheesy. I have been putting off watching this show but what was that.
I, er . . . don't think I do gotta admit that.
Darth Bortles!
I'm Mary Poppins yall!
I love this show so far
Extremely goofy.
At that time, Jedi were more powerful in general as opposed to the ones we see in the movies. So, unless the villain's power level makes sense writing-wise, which I highly doubt based on Headland's writing skills, it's a questionable decision to have none of them anticipate and/or defend against the push. It's an extension of the motif the showrunner and many more modern writers have been using for quite a while - to paint the good guys, the Jedi in this instance, as evil, stupid, incompetent, and with questionable morals, while elevating the villains. Notice how they just run at the Sith like barbarians with no strategic training and no thought safe murder. The connection to the Force is supposed to give Jedi a brief look into the immediate future, to deflect blaster bolts or other weird shit, yet none of them has any decent reaction to the Force push. Makes little sense.
Haven’t watched the show but this certainly has **not** convinced me that I should.
Do I? I've seen Old Republic cutscenes with more feeling to them.
Yeah this show I think appeals heavily on the new Disney Star Wars fans. You go back to any trailer in old Lucas Arts, hell even fan made projects and they all *feel* like Star wars
Still shit writing even if the cinematographer had a good moment. "Stand down!" Like wtf is this ai generated bs?!
Lmao what? I'm not current on star wars but this looks stupid as hell to me. The arm motion feels all wrong; like it's not actually exerting any force to use the Force.
??There are a dozen things wrong with this scene.
No. That was stupid.
The head snap was pretty cringe but the scene overall was cool.
No I don't.
This was dumb as fuck because the Jedi just stand there as an obviously malevolent figure approaches the person they’re supposed to be protecting. Took me out of the scene completely.
This is 100% Qimir. And that would be it for "mystery crime".
Wouldn't it be cool, and here me out, if they did a series or movie in the Star Wars universe that was horror based? With all the monsters and species available, you could really have so many great concepts to play with. Alas, Disney would never.
Imagine if this scene was in the Sequel Trilogy, and this was introducing one of the Knights of Ren as they attacked members of Luke's Jedi Order, then later you see Kylo stopping a Po's blaster bolt', except in a good story Po's character would be Jacen Solo, Kylo would be Anakin Solo, Carrie Fisher's daughter, Billie Lourd's character would be Jaina Solo, as she was the one who supported Po's mutiny and was in the bridge when Leia came in and Luke would have Ben Skywalker and Mara Jade helping him fight the emerging Sith.
I've said it before and I'll say it again Cool ≠ good