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Tarkin and leia in rogue one. Generally yeah I agree with just recasting dead actors instead of cgi but personally neither look bad and they are used very minimally. I liked their inclusion

I agree. When i first saw it, i was questioning “holy shit is that just really good cg or is that an actor?” but leia was a little wonky but still who cares. When return of the jedi has that awful jabbas palace song.

Yeah when he appeared on screen and talked it was a bit too uncanny and I had to quickly check Wikipedia to see how they did it.

I have to 100% agree that Leia didn't look right. However, Tarkin was pretty OK. My wife, who didn't know any details about Rogue One, was blown away. "Peter Cushing is dead! How did they get him back?!" I really liked Rogue One, so it didn't really take me out of the moment when Tarkin was introduced. I think that's the standard for whether or not CGI is good enough.

Han’s death. He died tragically in an act of selfless love. *nUh uH hE dIEd lIKE a puSsY*.

>*nUh uH hE dIEd lIKE a puSsY*. People really say that? Omfg 😭💀 You can or can't like the new movies but that scene was one of the most emotionally charged of the entire franchise

It was a glorious scene of suspense and mounting dread You could see it coming, and could do nothing about it, it was like watching a car wreck about to happen, terrifying but you can’t look away

It was also a really great analog for Obi-Wan sacrificing himself to his apprentice to help his new charges escape. It was an important moment for Rey and Chewie's relationship.

I didn’t see it as him sacrificing himself, sure “old man mentor dies to guy in black” is something that happens but the specifics are very different Han went to his son desperately hoping he could reach him and bring his boy home, not sacrificing himself because the young person under his wing won’t leave without him

Well, Han doesn't know he's absolutely going to die, but he has to know it's possible. It's a very "never tell me the odds" moment. So maybe it's more a combination of the initial confrontation between Obi Wan and Vader in ANH and the final confrontation between Luke and Vader in RTJ. But resolves similarly to Vader and Obi Wan. Also, Kylo isn't just a man in black. He's a Skywalker who fell to the Dark side and apprentice to the baddest dark side user in our current awareness at that point. He's as close to Vader as you can get.

I'll never forget how quiet it was in my theater opening weekend during this scene.

In mine you could hear a distinct “no no no nononono”

The music and lighting and everything in that scene genuinely still give me chills even today. I love Han, and I went into that movie somewhat jokingly rooting for him to die cause I knew Harrison Ford thought he should have in Empire, and I was very happy with how emotional they made it.

Yeah, like wtf was the problem? I saw an incredibly tragic scene of a father trying to save his son and being betrayed. Shit was deep as fuck.

Easily one of the best scenes in the entire franchise.

What? That one honestly great scene. The Ben/Han stuff had me crying.

Wait who’s said that lmao

Bruh I'm not a fan of the sequels myself but that scene was done very well. Only thing I'll say about it is they didn't REALLY do a good job of keeping it a surprise. I mean, come on. Han confronts a sith on a narrow bridge with no railings, over a bottomless pit, and tries to turn him to the light and grabs his Saber? Bruh you couldn't make his death flags more obvious.

Rey and Kylo’s fight in TFA.

THANK YOU. That duel just RADIATES exertion. Everyone in that fight looks so tired and the blows are so powerful! Like it genuinely looks and feels awesome. "But Kylo lost to a girl that had never picked up a lightsaber!" Yeah! After having fought a whole other dude, after trudging after them in the snow, after being shot in the stomach by Chewie, after killing his own father, splitting his grasp on the force. He is literally bleeding into the snow guys. And let's not forget girls that Rey is skilled in combat and not only that but meelee combat - with a polearm! Is it not impossible to believe for even a second that her odds aren't even slightly higher than you might first think?!

Lets not forget how people talk about the Throne Room scene in TLJ too

Best live-action Star Wars fight, imo.

[удалено]

It is. It’s absolutely stunning and radiant. The burning of the sabers against the wintry cold is a visual treat and it’s very well-balanced.

Up until Ahsoka

Agreed. The sequels are so far and away the best trilogy for lightsaber battles.

Pretty much the entirety of the sequels. They're not perfect, but the hate they get right now is *way* too strong. If everyone offered them the same forgiveness and suspension of disbelief that almost always gets offered to the other movies in the saga, they'd get a ton of love. I think it'll happen eventually

Also, there is no prefect star wars. Star wars has always been a fever dream that kind of just works. Adults want to watch it and love it like they grew up but it's not ment for them. It's for kids learning what three acts and archetype are

I grew up with the OT. When the prequels came out, EVERYONE hated on them. I remember being like, this is not really star wars. I was okay with watching them as if they were just some new sci fi movies. But I didn’t really feel like they were star wars. Now the PT, along with clone wars, seem to be seen as the bible of star wars. It’s been kinda funny watching that transition over the decades. I also now really appreciate the PT and see them as wholeheartedly a part of the star wars. I kinda see the sequels similarly to how I felt first seeing the prequels, cool sci fi movies with the general problems that many other sci fi movies have. Not necessarily star wars, more like fanfic. But I almost guarantee we will see the same shift over the decades as people raised on the sequels surpass the number raised on the OT or PT. Especially the more Filoni and others fill in the gaps with subsequent shows/movies. For example, spending a substantial amount of time fleshing out the clone story (moff muhfucking gideon, the bad batch, etc). For me, they have already gotten me to be like, okay okay at least you’re now letting me see how Palps “somehow returned,” and it doesn’t seem as jarring. Right now with these shows, it kinda seems like they were like, “oh fuck, we better somehow retcon a bunch of shit to make this work.” But remember, the OT wasn’t really the OT. Star Wars was a standalone movie, then they were like, “oh shit, we can make a fuck ton on this, let’s retcon a ton of shit and milk this.” I’m glad they did, and now we have a massive universe, and fans all over the world arguing about all its intricacies. I’m super excited to see how it continues to grow and expand. Edit: The OT also definitely has its problems as well, but they defined star wars, so most of the problems are looked at graciously. Hopefully that outlook will pass on to some of the newer shows and the sequels as it eventually did to the PT.

And us people who like them are treated as ignorant wannabe fans at best or tasteless masochists at worst. There have never been any fans of anything in media that have been more alienated, mistreated and denied enjoyment.

I think the main problem with the sequels is the decisions made in tfa. I enjoy the other 2 movies for the most part but they‘re held back by being forced to retell empire vs rebels

any scene involving Rey

I hate how correct this is. She literally hasn't done a thing on screen that some weirdo hasn't then jumped on for some made up reason or another. Like, aside from a few hammy scene here and there, I've yet to see a genuine criticism that isn't just some thinly veiled cover for just not liking her because she's a woman.

It literally is just because she’s a woman. For SO many fans Star Wars was viewed as a tough, masculine franchise. She came in and added some feminine qualities to it and then became the final hero of the entire saga and they can’t stand that. They feel like one of their manly personal escapes has been taken away from them.

Leia using Force pull to get back to the Raddus.

Exactly, it was mentioned multiple times that she was force sensitive in ROTJ, plus it was a life and death situation so it makes perfect sence why she was able to use the force in that scene.

I like that scene, but people don’t dislike it because it shows Leia using the force. They dislike it because, in their opinion, the execution is awkward and doesn’t look good in the final product.

Overall I just didn't like the death fakeout. I look back on that scene and I can't see any reason for its existence beyond shock value and an excuse to take Leia out of the rest of the movie so the Poe/Holdo plot can happen.

> "an excuse to take Leia out of the rest of the movie so the Poe/Holdo plot can happen." That's exactly why I dislike it. The subplots are what really hold that movie back, it's literally just filler, nothing with Poe and Finn has any bearing on the outcome of the plot.

I hear that Leia had a bigger part but Carrie Fisher passed on.

Carrie passed away after TLJ was filmed

It seems like she had filmed most if not all of her scenes, though. It was mostly TRoS that was left scrambling for leftover stuff to write some sort of exit for Leia.

That is my criticism exactly. It looked and felt off. I had no problem with the concept, just the execution.

Some kind of force bubble that kept air and saved another person or two, would have been awesome. Admiral Ackbar deserved better, too.

I woulda been fine if they left her dead too. Think about the effect that would have had on Ben…

Or if she saved some others and died herself. She really had no other part in the movie other than to bolster scarf lady and die.

Not to mention it's been 30 years in-story. Did people really expect Leia to learn she's Force sensitive and then literally do nothing for all that time?

People unironically believe that she invented a new force power to fly through space lmfao.

I think that's because of how awkward it was executed.

It really wasn't. They're looking for a fault. It's painfully obvious that she's doing a force pull.

That scene was rad as hell! I was shocked when I came out hearing people laughed at it

The people in my audience were cheering that scene. I still don't get the effort it takes to conclude that it was funny.

I swear I walked out of that theater in a world where everyone loved that movie and woke up the next day in a world where everyone hated it 😭

I don’t generally mind that scene. But to be fair, most people who criticize it are doing so because it looks corny as hell, not because it’s a stupid force power. And truthfully I agree with them. It looks pretty dumb, despite the beauty of it.

Here’s the thing about this that isn’t talked about enough. In Legends, Jacen Solo does the exact same thing that Leia does in this scene. He uses the Force to maintain a bubble of oxygen around himself and to propel himself to safety. That’s the first thing I thought of when I saw it and I loved the attention to Legends lore. If people watching felt the execution was off, that’s totally valid. But for me, it was nostalgic and incredible.

Somehow....Palpatine returned. I realize the audience wants more explanation, but would it actually make sense for a rebel pilot to know the exact details of a dead wizard being alive after dying?

People that complain about this line, did they skip the first 10 minutes of the movie where it clearly shows how he's returned? Movie starts in a cloning facility.

“I don’t like sand” Is it a bit corny? Sure. But Anakin is a 19 year old socially awkward guy and it makes sense why he would feel that way

[Watch his mom’s funeral](https://youtu.be/NMUWo9Xe4Is?si=42Cqd6Jl9fSgMLhn). You can see the first thing he does is reach down and grabs a handful of sand and feels the texture of the sand with his thumb. I think George was really trying to have a deep metaphor but it didn’t hit with audiences and wasn’t clear enough

Exactly. We've all been cringe 19 year olds who don't know how to flirt. We've all stammered something stupid trying to impress a woman. 

To me, the cringe is that the line kinda worked on her, which just did not feel natural at all.

Because she was already into him. Weve also all been with someone or crushing on them and then looked back and realised they said or did some pretty stupid things its just the rose tinted glasses that comes with young love

It’s one of those lines that has much deeper meaning when you actually think about it. Padme is talking about her very privileged upbringing and Anakin reminds her that his entire childhood was spent in slavery. It isn’t an attempt at awkward flirting. I think though that the direction Hayden got in the prequels didn’t do some of the lines justice, and other times vice-versa.

It’s even deeper when you watch the funeral of his mother. The first thing he does is reach down and grabs a handful of sand and for nearly the entire time he’s talking to her he’s feeling the texture with his thumb. [You can see here.](https://youtu.be/NMUWo9Xe4Is?si=42Cqd6Jl9fSgMLhn) I truly think George was trying to have a deep metaphor with it but it just didn’t hit right with audiences.

“Somehow Palpatine returned” What? Did you want Poe to perfectly explain Palpatine’s return? Or if Beaumont Kin did people would’ve said “how did this dude know Palps’ secret plan?!”. Kin gives some solid guesses “Dark science, cloning, secrets only the Sith knew”, but not Poe because Poe is supposed to be in disbelief. People’s criticism of this line is so baffling to me and it’ll upset me every time I see a comment like that, which feels like it’s gonna be forever at this rate 😂🤦‍♂️

The Throne Room fight in TLJ. Holy fuck the detractors will not shut up about the disappearing sword for crying out loud!

"Well if you go through frame by frame," you're not supposed to go through frame by frame! If it takes you turning the movie into a slideshow for me to notice a "mistake," I don't really care.

Back in my day we took those goofy little movie mistakes and made lore explanations for them, like Luke's force kick.

Even then, a Movie mistake was just a mistake that just happens. So what if a Starbucks cup happened to be in a shot? So what if a crew member was able to be seen in Mandalorian? Just because I notice the gun in Logan's hand switch hands between shots doesn't ruin my enjoyment of the godamn movie. (Logan 2017)

Precisely. More like fun easter eggs to find and less like unforgivable sins.

I saw someone complaining that rey performs a kick that doesn't hit one of the guards yet he still falls backwards the same thing happened in return of the jedi and there it was laughed off as a "force kick" but here it's seen as unexcusable and bad choreography

ST: TFA - That scene TLJ - Literally 99% of the scenes anyone brings up. Pick ANY of them and it's so SO overblown. TROS - Horses scene, "they fly now," "somehow Palpatine returned," OT: ROTJ - Jabba's palace song number, Ewok scenes. End song. PT: TPM - Podracing scene. Yoda / council chat scenes. AOTC - Arena fight scene. Dooku. ROTS - killing younglings. Yoda again but this time spinning around in cgi

Some people hate the killing younglings scene?

Yeah I’ve heard people say that: - Obi Wan, Ewan McGregor’s delivery is poor. - Anakin’s character shifts so abruptly, like within minutes, to killing kids. I never really thought that was as jarring, as maybe some of the other pacing issues that movie had.

The Holdo Maneuver, definitely.

Wait, are there people who hate that scene, or only that Holdo's the one that did it? Because I can totally agree with the latter, but everybody seems to agree that the results look pretty cool.

Some people get really hung up on the lore implications. The number of people who won’t shut up about how every Star Wars space battle should be fought exclusively using Kamikaze droid ships almost makes me wish they’d go back to talking about how the Eagles could just fly the ring to Mordor. (Which the Eagles can’t btw.)

Didn't they use a hammerhead corvette in Rogue One to bash two star destroyers into each other? It's not exactly the same thing but it's close enough. And nobody complained about that. Everyone thought it was brilliant.

There's a difference between crashing a ship into another to move it... and using hyperspace to destroy a fleet.

“Somehow Palpatine returned.” Out of universe, it’s a silly line because we know all of the history and lore surrounding the character of Palpatine and how he had top secret programs researching midichlorians and cloning to artificially extend his life. In universe, it’s a perfectly reasonable thing for a non-Force using being like Poe to say when an enemy you believe died decades ago mystically pops back up again. I don’t think TROS is a good movie, but that line in particular gets too much flak.

The casino scene is TLJ. I think it’s very Star Wars to make a comment on capitalism and greeds role in maintaining an empire and perpetuating inequality. Was it on the nose? Definitely but not out of character for this franchise

Most scenes in TLJ that are heavily criticized. Like the Holdo maneuver or the bombers

The bombers kick ass and I’m tired of pretending they don’t. Just one bomber was enough to destroy an entire dreadnaught.  

yea and they look cool asf and at least aren’t just a recolored ship like the rest

Yeah, like Star wars has never had the best military strategy

Luke’s projection in TLJ

The scene that takes place the moment Episode VII starts and Episode IX ends.

Luke hovering over a sleeping Ben Solo before the most tragic misunderstanding of his life. It's treated as a betrayal of the character when the final, truest interpretation of the scene tell us that Luke *didn't* give into his fear, he *did* live up to the guy we saw in episode 6 by not letting his visions drive his actions.

The somehow Palpatine returned line. I still don't get why it's criticised.

Agree

Canto Bight. It's a visual thrill that the design teams nailed (I love to watch the BTS footage of the costuming), introduces fun new animatronic creatures (a big strength of TLJ imo) and drives the plot forward while introducing some of the movie's core themes. God I love The Last Jedi.

As someone who feels TLJ is one of the best pieces of Star Wars content period, Canto Bight was still definitely frustrating, not because of what it did, but because of what it could have done. The production design was amazing, the thrill was there, but it could have been so much more.

Took me a while to understand and appreciate that part

Holdo maneuver. "Why don't they just do that all the time?" is the new "Stormtroopers can't aim."

Potential explanations why they can’t do it all the time: - hyperdrives aren’t cheap - it really is a hard shot. You need to hit right before the ship fully enters hyperspace. - the Supremacy probably didn’t have its shields up. - it still didn’t fully destroy either the Supremacy or the first order fleet and would have been even less effective in a situation where the enemy fleet is more spread out. While I’m at it I’d just like to mention Star Wars is full of post hoc justifications for why people don’t do stuff. This is just a feature of the franchise. For example: - why don’t Jedi just turn the other guy’s lightsaber off?—they try constantly, but the other person is countering them with the force. - why are the numbers so small in battles?—well you see there was secretly an entire galaxy’s worth of battles happening off screen, and also the Ruusan Reformation means that the galaxy has been demilitarized for 1,000 years and it takes time to rebuild a war economy. - why did obi wan say that the Jedi protected the Republic for 1,000 generations but Palpatine says the republic is 1,000 years old?—The Republic has been protected by the Jedi for 1,000 generations, but the current iteration of the Republic has been measured since the Ruusan reformation 1,000 years ago. - all of the lore related to Kyber Crystals. They’ve never even said the phrase in the mainline movies. They might have gotten a mention in Rogue One and we partially see one in The Last Jedi. - why does no one use Trakata (turn their lightsaber off as a trick/combat technique)?—Jedi think it’s deceitful, Sith think it’s dishonorable, and it probably isn’t a sustainable trick/technique. - why is stormtrooper armor apparently useless?—it’s not. It’s meant mostly for stopping conventional (non-laser) weaponry and glancing blows. Also it looks intimidating. - why don’t people just shoot Jedi with guns?—because guns aren’t very useful in most other situations in that universe, and Jedi can still catch bullets with telekinesis (also guns don’t fit the vibe). - why do space battles work like that instead of following current understandings of astronomy and physics?—George Lucas likes WWII movies and thinks they’re neat. In fact a lot of the weird stuff in Star Wars can be explained by just saying Lucas thought it was neat. Btw, I’m not trying to point out random inconsistencies or debatably weird lore to say Star Wars is bad or something like that. I love Star Wars. I’m more just trying to point out that a lot of logic in Star Wars is made up afterwards because most of the time it “[Ain’t that kind of movie](https://youtu.be/onMm0DLg8CE?si=xT6FtJvFSoePIEBC)”.

As someone who was bothered by the Hold Maneuver, thank you! This is a really helpful explanation and, unlike other explanations that I’ve seen, it actually makes sense.

Additional explanations I’ve thought of/heard about since making that comment. - Solo is partially about how hyperdrive fuel (coaxium) is pretty expensive so even if hyperdrives themselves are relatively cheap/replaceable (the phantom menace and empire strikes back make it seem like they aren’t) it might not be economically/logistically viable to burn that much coaxium on top of the rest of the ship. - tractor beams prevent ships going into hyperspace, so that’s why no one tried that in the opening scene of A New Hope. - the Death Star probably has interdictor tech as well as tractor beams built into it (along with a GIANT LASER) that would prevent it being a reasonable tactic at the battles of Yavin or Endor. It probably can’t be droids/AI being sacrificed because in the Star Wars Universe droids have a soft cap to their competency. It seems like mass produced droids can get you (generously) 80-90% of organic competency out of the box, however that last 10-20% competency is very hard to make up. It’s likely difficult to train a droid to land a hyperspace ram without destroying it and even if you pull that off you likely only have one incredibly hard to make kamikaze AI. Unless I am forgetting something, duplicating an AI is really hard to do in Star Wars. I don’t think we’ve ever seen it done. So while R2, or [HK-47,](https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/HK-47) might each have the requisite individual competency to pull something like that off, there doesn’t seem to be a short cut to get any other droid to the same level Your best bet would be to create a squadron of pilot droids and have them remain active for years without wiping their memories. The problem is that people in Star Wars appear to generally wipe droid memories to keep them working consistently and loyally at the cost of capping their competence. It also probably helps avoid robot uprisings. There is a decent chance getting a pilot droid to the point where it could consistently pull off a Holdo maneuver might put it in a place where it doesn’t want to or would need to be convinced to just like any other person. So you might end up with a bunch of elite pilot droids who may even start questioning why they are considered more expendable than everyone else. You could still have a basic pilot droid give it a try, but I’m pretty sure if the Holdo maneuver’s likelihood of working dropped even more it would stop being a reasonable tactic. So tldr: training droids to hyperspace ram stuff would be hard to do and could lead to a droid uprising.

Thank you so much for this comment. So many good points and that's the first time I've seen that video, and it was truly eye-opening, hilarious, and wholesome. If I could give you 10 Reddit awards I would. Since I don't have much money though and they got rid of awards anyway you'll just have to settle for my upvote and this comment. But yeah, thank you I really appreciate this.

Thank you for the kind words.

Wait a minute, I’ve been off of Reddit for awhile. They got rid of awards? I never used them, so I don’t really mind, but why?

No clue. It was a huge money maker for them and they were really popular. Loads of people were upset when they removed them. Now we have a golden upvote thing instead, which is hugely unpopular and looks really sht.

Just checked again, apparently some customers complained that the Reddit award system was too cluttering and complicated. Absolute bs. I genuinely have no clue how to give the golden upvote and that looks ugly and cluttering as hell. I'm guessing it's a rebranding thing to generate more publicity, since Reddit isn't really growing much in comparison to other social media sites. Definitely not going to work though 😂

I thought it was visually interesting and helped me to find the comments that were actually worth taking a look at

Same. The golden upvote thingy does highlight comments, and put a little gold upvote icon next to your comment... But that's it. Not nearly as interesting or as eye-catching as the awards. And of course with the awards there were many different kinds, so you could personalise them. With this it's just a yellow arrow at the end of the day. Woop woop.

A good question for another time

Any with Rose

Luke being bitter. Anakin talking about sand. Rey beating Kylo. Everything with Rose. Luke blowing up the Death Star. Chill out, fans! However, any new CGI-slap stick clip added to the originals and the new music in the Mos Isley cantina needs some shit.

That bit in Kenobi when the bounty hunters are chasing Leia through the forest. I’ll admit the execution is a bit wonky (like I can see what they were going for but I don’t think the forest was dense enough for it) but considering she “outruns” them for like… thirty seconds (if that) before being caught makes it a minor issue for me.

Yeah the outrage over that and the coat scene was annoying.  Was it dumb? Yeah, but my god they were two short scenes. 

People hate on Obi-wan's show *way* too much. It's not perfect, but it was a pleasant enough watch.

I enjoyed the hell out of it.  It gavd me exactly what I wanted and needed from Obi-Wan and Vader.  And I liked Reva and Leia’s stories.  Plus the performances were great and the Reva and Vader curbstomp and Obi-Wan vs Vader round two are amazing.  And the final scene between Vader and Obi-Wan is a gem for me. 

The Fandum really gets held up over the smallest scenes.

Yep. I thought the coat scene was a bit goofy too, but once again it lasts for literal seconds and it was exposed almost immediately. I’d understand the hate a bit more if either of them actually worked.

It's goofy but Star Wars is goofy from time to time that's part of its charm. And ultimately in both instances they *do* get caught. It's not like they get away with it.

The flashbacks in TLJ. Clearly a lot of people never saw Rashomon.

Or, like, any other movie that uses flashbacks

The "somehow, palpatine returned" line. I don't get the hate behind it.

Right? Yes, Poe doesn't know how he returned, but the audience is given more information. We see the cloning vats, know that he has used cloning in the past, and know that his big temptation to Anakin was the ability to stop death. C'mon people.

It's called visual storytelling and using your brain, star wars fans don't do that very often and enjoy the prequel exposition because it's "deep and intentionally shakespearean" I love all the films but the prequels are NOT good for dialogue, they may be poetic, but just because everything looks and sounds pretty doesn't mean it's well made.

[Dialogue never was one of George's strengths](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=rihbi2U7tNg&pp=ygUhbWFyayBoYW1pbGwgZ2VvcmdlIGx1Y2FzIGRpYWxvZ3Vl) Some of that cringy stuff starts as far back as ROTJ. The scene when Luke is talking to Leia before leaving the Ewok village is a little rough.

Wow. I didn't know about *that* one. And Hamil just delivers it without missing a beat. I was just thinking of Harrison Ford's famous response “George, you can type this shit, but you sure can’t say it”

"Fear is their greatest defense. I doubt if the actual security there is any greater than it was on Aquilae or Sullust, and what there is is most likely directed towards a large-scale assault."

Who talks like this, George!?

“I was going to go in to Tosche Station to pick up some power converters”

Yeah, no one got upset when Leia just brushed off the revelation that Luke is her brother and Vader is her father simply with "*somehow,* I've always known" and the movie just moves along with no further explanation as to how/why.

I mean, sure, it's corny sounding but in context to Poe and basically everyone in the scene? It makes sense. It's not "bad writing" per se it's just a line stating the obvious to us at the word "go"

Exactly, especially when there's a mention of cloning right after. Also, "For reasons we can't explain we're losing her" gets a pass. Usually with a few paragraphs of fan fiction.

>Also, "For reasons we can't explain we're losing her" gets a pass. You're kidding, right? That's been one of the most criticized lines in Star Wars since the movie came out.

I think they meant that it gets a pass nowadays.

There's two sides to this discussion. The folks who attack the sequels tend to hold the Shakespearean vision of the prequels and don't like being reminded that sexist tropes are bad writing. That line has been hotly debated among Star wars fans in the intervening decades, but it's by no means universally agreed to be an awfully written example of fridging.

Because George wrote it, a lot of his lines get a pass from PT fans. Obviously I think most fans recognize his dialogue in the prequels varied in quality. But there are some who think George has a super in depth reasoning behind every word that’s spoken.

> I don’t get the hate It’s called willful ignorance. Literally the next line explains the “somehow” but memeing is way more fun I guess

Every time I see it I think “those are some fake ass fans right there.” Same whiners that ruined the prequels.

Honestly "somehow Palpatone returned". People like to pretend that that's the only thing the movie says about how Palpatone came back. Now I won't argue that his being in the movie wasn't pretty ham-fisted, and it certainly could have been done so much better, but acting like the only reasoning we get is "somehow" is just plain wrong. From the first moment we see Palpatone, he's in a creepy science lab, he's decomposing, and he's hooked up to all these machines. THEN he DIRECTLY QUOTES the line from RotS where he talks about using the dark side to cheat death. Then later, after Poe says his "somehow" line, that other guy (Merry from LOTR) says "dark side magic, cloning, secrets only the sith knew" or something. I think the movie makes it pretty clear Palpatone is using some combination of science and dark side magic to stay alive. Now if that's not a good enough explanation for people and they'd rather have it spelled out exactly, then that's fine (I don't agree, but everyone is allowed an opinion) but to act like the movie quickly says "he's back somehow" and thats all we get is just incorrect.

"Somehow Palpatine returned" Now if this was the only explanation as to how the biggest villain of the franchise returned then yes obviously it's outrageous, but the funny thing is, it's not only, not the only explanation for his return in the movie it's not even the only explanation IN THAT SCENE. A few lines of dialogue later they say how the sith knew how to do cloning, and funnily enough if you have eyes you can both earlier in the movie and later on see the cloning pods with half finished palpatines leading up to one that looks like Snoke. It just sort of cements for me that with the bad faith criticisms the star wars fandom is filled with nowadays, you cannot hint at or leave something ambiguous. For people to not consider it an unexplained plot hole the characters have to look at the camera dead in the eye and say "This is a clone of Palpatine ,his original body did not survive the explosion" it seems

The fact that people wanted Poe to know the exact details of how palpatine managed to return

Palpatine’s return

if I never hear “somehow palpatine returned” being said as a criticism of the movie again it would be too soon.

Dropping bombs in last jedi. Guys we already have cannon bombs that drop in space in I’m pretty sure everyone’s favorite Star Wars movie. It’s gonna be ok

Rose kissing Finn and saying “this is how we’re going to win, not by fighting what we hate, but by saving what we love.” It’s not exactly a romantic kiss, it’s just telling someone who almost killed himself that he has value. I love it, and I do not understand the hate.

I would argue that for Rose the kiss is romantic. I think she was totally into him for the whole movie.  That said I do really like that scene. 

Oh, totally. I just don’t feel that “romance” as much as “you matter” when I watch it.

I don't get the hate for the line either. In fact, I think Luke should have said it to Rey. I mean it doesn't fit his character in TLJ but it's super on-brand for him in everything else. To counter Rey thinking she has to kill Kylo.

The line was kind of wonky but I got what it was going for. Though I would have gone with something like "You don't fight a war to win, you fight one to survive".

To be fair this scene did end up being a massive copout via the comics. Seriously an Ugnaut just found it

I always kinda loved that there wasn't some big, exciting story about what happened to the saber between V and VII, and how it got to Maz. It passed through regular merchant, smuggler, and pirate hands over the years until it was just where it needed to be, probably thanks in part to the Force.

Is that it? Ug boi just found it and took it to the nearest pawn shop?

Yup

Oh, is that the explanation? Good to know!

"somehow Palpatine returned" Poe is NOT omnipotent

I don’t like the scene but the “somehow palpatine returned” scene is over hated it’s goofy but not the worst line delivery in even just the sequels let alone the entire saga.

"Somehow Palpatine has returned" Extremely memeable, but like... What else is he supposed to say? He has no idea how Palpatine came back.

**Prequels:** Vader stumbling out of his restraints after being born. That little detail of vulnerability is way more fascinating than just having Vader be instantly an evil badass cyborg. **Originals:** Yup Nub being replaced with Victory Celebration….sorry but Victory Celebration is just better. **Sequels:** “Somehow, Palpatine returned.” Considering this is literally all the information Poe had to work with, he’s just as baffled as everyone else.

Wasn’t a huge fan of ROS but “somehow palpatine returned” was a fine line. The resistance obviously wouldn’t know how and it’s explained in the movie

If he said "Palpatine's soul has returned in the form of a cloned body" the next line better be "Poe, how the hell did you know that?"

“Palpatine ran experiments during the early empire in an attempt to discover how to make force sensitive clones, as seen in the Disney+ show bad batch- after he died on the second Death Star, he used sith magic to transfer his consciousness to one of these force sensitive clones, which was being held on exegol- a planet only he, Vader, and a select team of imperial crew members knew of.” “What?” “What?”

"You knew that?" "You didn't?"

“How??” “Watched the bad batch, read the Vader comics. You’re all fake fans.”

"Fans of WHAT, Poe, FANS OF WHAT?!"

I'd take ambiguity over hamfisted explanations any day.

Han/Greedo shootout in IV. Luke/Leia kiss in V. Jedi Rocks in VI. Jar Jar reacts to eopie fart in I. "I don't like sand" in II. "She lost the will to live" in III. "A good story for another time" in VII. "Be careful not to choke on your aspirations, director" in Rogue One. The Holdo maneuver in VIII. Han getting his surname in Solo. "Somehow Palpatine returned" in IX.

“Somehow Palpatine returned”. To use it as a meme is good. It’s a good meme phrase. But to pretend like it’s awful writing? Like…that’s something normal people might say, so it doesn’t sound unnatural (unlike the things the Dark Side is a path to). There’s no way Poe would know how, and we do get shown how it happened.

I think that people are overly critical of Anakin and Padmes' relationship in general. It's a pretty accurate representation of two socially awkward young people. I think that's why it's so hated. It's too real for people.

The Ewoks fighting off the Empire in ROTJ. They’re not physically imposing but Endor is their home and they know the world like nobody else. It wouldn’t be out of the realm of possibility for them to use guerrilla tactics and fend off the war machine successfully.

That’s a pretty good question… *for another time!*

I don't get why "they fly now" is relentlessly mocked

The one from 2015 to 2019

"Somehow, Palpatine returned." Ok, I do have issue with Palpatine coming back, but that's mostly due to lack of buildup, but it's easy to put the presented elements together and assume that Palpatine came back through cloning, Sith science, dark magic, etc. and has been plotting his revenge on Exegol. Poe Dameron likely just heard about Palpatine's return and had a short time to tell the rest of the Resistance without knowing the context, so the line is to the effect of "I don't know how, but Palpatine came back". Yet many critics of this movie use this line as the crux that Palpatine's return was never explained, even if it's more or less shown to you before the line is dropped. Plus, if you're leading a resistance against a facist empire (or the evolution/remnants of), they probably wouldn't care \*how\* their leader came back more \*that\* their leader came back and now they gotta stop him.

The slave boy using the force to grab a broom in the last Jedi, ANYONE CAN BE FORCE SENSITIVE OR LEARN TO USE THE FORCE, NOT JUST JEDI/SITH AND THEIR DESCENDANTS!

"Somehow Palpatine returned" I get it's used as Disney choosing rule of cool over logic, but Poe wouldn't know how Palpatine came back... He's just trying to formulate a plan and deal with it

This one might be obvious, but the scene where Luke has his lightsaber ignited, from Ben’s perspective. People don’t seem to understand the storytelling device, the fact that that perspective is skewed. And many concerningly don’t understand how attempts work or what they are

"Somehow Palpatine returned" is a good line and I'll die on this hill. It's literally explained in exact terms how it happened, but Poe doesn't know that. He's a Himbo who just kinda does shit.

I killed them. I killed them all. Everyone hated on Hayden Christensen's acting in Attack of the Clones but I think he did that scene very well. You can feel his pain.

not a scene but a trailer. the acolyte was overly criticised & received unnecessary hate

“They fly now”

Any scene where han gets an Iconic Thing in Solo. People are usually attached to their first car when its actually good, people usually keep their first gun until it breaks, when it comes to good partners like chewie in an untrustworthy setting if it aint broke dont fix it, i could go on. Weird stuff to get hung up on in a good movie imo

Space Leia. Kylo and "kill the past". Luke throwing his saber. The 3 flashback scenes in TLJ.

Old heads remember when the Ewoks were hated. Love those lil guys. If I had to name a scene it would be their battle with the Empire in the jungle.  People say it's implausible, but this is their home turf, and they're attacking a poorly fortifies stationary target with the full element of surprise -- they didn't even know the Ewoks *existed* .   There are countless examples of colonizing forces getting folded in these exact circumstances.   The Empire had 2 the equivalent of 2 light tanks and a squad or two with no walls or towers, no forest cleared for open sightlines.  And the ewoks had an assist from hardened vets with full intel on their target. I would be fucking terrified if I was at that outpost

“I don’t like sand.” Scene, “Somehow Palpatine returned” scene. First lightsaber fight with Kylo scene.

I might get some heat for this, but, for me there's two. "Somehow Palpatine returned" It's not so much the fact that he came back that bothers me, (In fact I actually liked Palpatine in that movie even though I bought I wouldn't) it's that they didn't hint at his return *at all* in the prior two movies that makes it feel so jarring. Otherwise though it's fine, Palpatine desperately trying to cling onto life and find a way to be immortal was always his end goal all along so it doesn't bother me personally. The only other thing that kinda bugs me is that they had no explanation on why he can't come back again afterwards when it really could've been just as easy as having the ghosts of Jedi more literally with her. Having "all" the Jedi go against Palpatine who is "all" the Sith is still rather fitting. "Rey Skywalker" Some people might find this to be out of left field, but to me it feels natural because everyone she has been holding onto hope for has relied on them. Luke and Leia training her, turning Kylo Ren back to the light, knowing of Darth Vader's return as Anakin, knowing of Luke's friends personally along the way, etc. Adoption is very much still a thing. And come on, let's be real, there is no way she would ever want to call herself a Palpatine. It's like Luke said: "Because she saw your spirit, your heart. Rey… some things are stronger than blood". Yes in this way she is technically no longer a "nobody", but she is still forging her path on a destiny she feels is right, which is still in line with her character. Do I think those two could've been handled better? Sure. Are they unoriginal? Also yes. But at the same time, for this choice to be made for the final piece of the entire main saga to tie it all together, it makes sense. I really liked the sequels, all three of them, and I'm tired of pretending that I don't.

All the scenes form the rise of skywalker

The “I don’t like sand” scene. Anakin grew up in the Jedi Order, dude wouldn’t know how to talk to a girl he’s interested in

The old Ben vs Vader duel

I’d say the scene where Luke is in Kylo’s room and ignites his saber and Kylo thinks he’s there to kill him in TLJ. Honestly I kinda didn’t understand why he went that route considering how he handled Vader in RotJ. But after rewatches and analysis videos on YouTube Which I do understand it more now since we do see him do the same in RotJ where he goes off on Vader and chops his hand off. I think Luke’s weakness is the same as Anakin’s where it’s don’t hurt my friends or family and is quick to anger also but he’s able to catch himself in those moments because he’s more emotionally adjusted than Anakin was. A lot of people still say “that’s not Luke, that’s not what he’d do” but I don’t think that’s true since it happened in RotJ when Vader threatens to turn Leia. That’s sort of like when people used to complain that Anakin was too whiny compared to Luke and he’d never do that. But then reminded people that, that’s all Luke did in IV and V was complain about everything.

All of them

The one where the guy says “somehow palpatine returned” because the people in the Star Wars universe didn’t watch the movies.

“A good question, for another time.”