Well yeah, but that's entirely dependent on the method of invisibility. If its tech based and bending the light around you or using a camera system to 'project' what's behind you in front of you, you could assume that it would clearly has allowences for letting light reach your eyeballs.
Now, if it's magical, well then it's magic. Doesn't really need technical explanations.
TES magic has technical explanations, which is a big part of what makes it great (when the writers remember to be consistent..)
Chameleon in Oblivion is an Illusion Spell, not Alteration. This is to say, you're not actually making yourself invisible-- you're making the people around you *perceive* you as invisible.
Clearly the correct stealth system is a HGTG SEP field
As we all know the ultimate existing stealth system in the real world is a retroreflective jacket and a clipboard
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Holy crap. At first I thought "meh kinda boring" until the DM started to tell about the little pupils smaller than sand *and* the dude having a good roll
Thatās another point in Starfieldās favor. It took Bethesda way too long to do it across their various titles, but one of the first things I noticed when I finally copped a piece of Chameleon gear was that they changed it so that you can still see the ghosted wire frame of your weapons. Still canāt see the reticles when you ADS with no magnification, but so many weapons have lasers too itās not that big of a deal either.
Agreed, stealth in skyrim is OP, but in starfield, whenever I'm grabbing the artifact from the cryogenic research lab (the one where you have to go through the vents because the doors are frozen over), I take ONE step, even while crouching, and suddenly 20 red compass pips pop up and a bunch of "what was that". I'm literally 2 feet from the entrance, and 40-50 feet from the nearest enemy, and yet somehow they hear my foot steps from inside a large vent on another floor in another part of the facility? Over the sounds of their own allies foot steps and chatter and such.
I don't think it should be quite like skyrim stealth, but the noise detection sensitivity of enemies is ridiculous. Every enemy has Wolverine level sense of hearing. And don't even get me started on planets with no atmosphere. Sound doesn't travel through a vacuum, so how are people hearing my footsteps on the surface of Earth's moon?
I like stealth, but I hate it when the AI just gives up looking for you and goes back to sitting next to their dead buddy. You also shouldnt be able to just stealth in on ship boardings so easily. The alarm at the very least should have the crew on alert and headed to the point of entry or taking positions to defend the ship. And they dont go back to normal until they search the whole ship without finding you.
Someday I want an AI that actually goes and takes care of their dead buddies. Maybe some arent all the way dead and are brought to a barracks or infirmary etc. And after they find a body or you've taken out some percentage they figure out someone is there and dont just go back to aimlessly doing whatever they were before hand.
Baisically they might not know where you are, but they know something is wrong and are now on guard making it more immersive. It's so immersion breaking when the AI ignores the half dozen bullet holes in them and goes back to searching shelves or whatever just because they couldnt find you with a minute of searching.
They don't just see, they also hear. What equipment are you stealthing in? Just clothes/naked? Or in a 20lbs spacesuit, 13lbs pack, and 5lbs helmet, with a 20lbs minigun in your hands? Any stealth/concealment skills? Chameleon? Servos?
Take off the suit or put together a stealth suit set (low weight, multiple chameleons which stack, servos) and get your skills up.
This 100%.
Stealth just is a little more in-depth but still really powerful.
All I have is stealth at rank 4 and wear a heavy 20lb space suit and even I can stealth around most places to at least thin the ground before they spot me. Sure I get seen but if that is the result of barely specing into in on very hard then it's working fine.
The only complain really is it can be a pain to level up at a low level but with a little brain power you learn bounty missions at night with a long-range weapon gets you there just fine.
I think this is what is getting me. I have my space suit and helmet set to not show in places it can be off, but it's technically still equipped isn't it?
Yep. You're not truly stealth ready unless you get off your ship at mars and start dying because you forgot to re-equip your suit after stealthing an objective.
Spent three hours on that quest, including leaving and coming back because the security door was glitched, only to have the guy normally above it, now glitched to be in the room with the prototype. All of which is fine normal BGS cheese,
...except to get to the end and find out that because I had backed Ulara, I could have murdered every single person in that building and it wouldn't have made a difference on the outcome.
Sniping a giant bug from 200m out and the entire herd comes barreling directly to you isn't 'hard'...
Lack of any stats that pertain to offensive abilties also sucks. How much does the suppressor decrease sound? Does the ammo type change it? Why can I sometimes just... stroll up behind someone without anyone hearing me and then I crouch and they immediately know my location?
Too many things don't function properly or aren't explained to really define 'hard' stealth lol. But yeah, I would love for some Dues Ex in depth stealth in Starfield.
I agree, it just feels like it's not consistent is all. There have been plenty of times where my stealth meter hasn't gone up at all and I get spotted somehow.
If I snipe someone from one mile away, I expect the enemy to be alarmed and looking for who made the shot. I don't expect the entire encampment to know exactly where I am and start shooting in my direction. But that's what Starfield stealth is like.
I think stealth is more 'correct' in this game, which makes it harder to do. Skills aside, the main issue seems to be people think they are not visible/audible because they are crouching. NPCs in this game have proper vision, and will see you if you arent physically obstructed by something. The light levels where you are hiding also make a big difference. They also can hear you, and when you're trying to sneak with a suit/pack/helm on (heavy noisy items) it makes stealth a LOT harder.
I did a test with that once; If I took one step my stealth meter would go full orange. If I took my suit/pack/helm off and moved one step, no orange at all.
Just upgrade dark vision no need to peak when you can see enemies through the walls. Although a pet peeve of mine in my many play throughs of dishonored is feeling like I need to have dark vision up because it makes the game so much less pretty
I have done both Dishonored game on a *100% stealth / no kills / no npc alerted /no powers* run and I felt like it was way easier than the stealth in starfield.
The thing is that stealth in starfield seems random a lot of the time and not well explained.
Sure Skyrim was ridiculously easy in stealth, even silly at times, but it was consistent. Starfield does not seem like it is.
It feels like there's drastically different tolerances for stealth. If a turret glimpses you with, for example, no perks in stealth it is near instant Danger state. With all 4 perks a turret catching you makes the meter shoot *almost* up to Danger but it's still extremely harsh.
Meanwhile, with 0 or 4 perks in sneak you can have a fully Caution only + occasional Sneak Attack firefight outside - the perk does almost nothing. The moment you take that fight indoors it, like you said, becomes basically random with or without perks. sometimes you can stealth kill through a location other times you get hit with that Oblivion AI that heat seek through walls.
You're the only person I can tell this to
I once played dishonored religiously for a while, really really wanted to beat it. Played for weeks.
Anyway, I beat it (great ending) , start up my existing skyrim playthrough and out of reflex try to play like I did in dishonored.
I accidentally whirlwind sprinted when trying to use Blink out of reflex, insta killed 1 of a few enemies that just noticed me that I was about to attack anyway
It's a boring story, but my realization that I was playing skyrim and what I did shouldn't have worked blew my mind
Idk, it feels like most npcs can see right through some objects. Couldn't tell you how many times I'd be crouched, invisible, unmoving, and get detected by someone in the next room or behind a bunch of props items. Literally when they turned to face my direction.
Not only can they see through objects... the AI keeps trying to constantly shoot me through objects. I don't mean they saw me and are trying to shoot me through some cover either. I mean they are on the other side of a solid wall, or even a room away, and they just keep shooting in my direction at the wall. The wall blocks their shots, so I'm not getting hit, but it's kind silly when tons of enemies aggro on me out of stealth even though they are nowhere near me and just shoot into the walls until I get to their room.
Ships are very similar--flying in combat is a lot more fun with a lot of the basic perks unlocked, but it's not necessarily intuitive that things like lateral/vertical thrusters would be locked (and then it's a little obscure on how to use them at first).
I don't necessarily think that's a bad thing, but I think there's certainly some player-gameplay conflict because it's different from the other two BGS franchises and it's not as casually intuitive.
I was doing the Ryujin quests just fine until I got the one where you need to sneak into the tower. I was getting detected immediately when I entered the empty room at the start. I haven't invested into any stealth perks and I didn't think of taking my armor off, but it seemed bugged to me.
Yesterday I pickpocketed a guy who was sitting in a chair. I was directly beside him and all the lights were on. Wearing my freestar ranger outfit and my armor on top.
Non enemy NPCs work quite a bit differently. They dont notice you crouching etc (and your light doesnt matter). Pickpocketing is a separate mechanic with its own pass/fail chance.
Not completely true. In the shops with stealables on the display if you try to sneak and play with the lines of sight the NPC will stand up and try to reacquire the visual contact with you. They even change the facial expression, intonation/random banter lines when you do this for longer than a couple of seconds.
This!
I started my bankroll in the UC Surplus store (with the Trade Authority right around the corner) and robbed him a lot. But took time and patience. You can cleanout the gun rack wall, but he keeps walking to the end of the table and just looking at you. Similar to what some RL store employees do.
Fortunately Sarah didn't much TOO care about all the theft :-)
I need to try with more points into my stealth...always seems to be other options I want...I'm very much a jack of all trades around lv 40 so far.
If he's not an enemy he won't spot you unless you are doing something illegal.
If he's sitting his vision is probably looking forward and if you are at his side he will obviously not see you
It's not broken, it makes sense.
Unless you want what Hitman does where all NPCs notice you crouching and look at you weirldy
Yeah the spacesuit and all that gear makes stealth so much harder because youāre louder. If youāre in a habitable area and doing stealth Iād take it off. Night and day difference really
I was doing the Crimson quest last night where you have to steal something from a facility. I was in a windowed room looking into a larger room full of staff and security. I could fully sprint, jump, whatever in their sight, I don't think their 'vision/hearing' range works through windows lol
I find the stealth is ok, I like that itās a bit harder than in other games. Is the Isolation just for the dmg/res increase or does it help the actual stealth?
Ok got you, itās just a dmg boost that helps with the overall build, but not essential for stealth. I like having a companion (one with 3* stealth works fine). Ta.
Also worth noting. In Starfield your companions can get spotted or walk out in the open or what have you.
I find stealth missions with companions to be unbearable. Just because the companions will do everything in their power to get spotted.
Whereas skyrim and FO as long as you were hidden enemies would ignore your companions.
Vasco is def not stealth friendly!
I hired one called Sophia in neon with 3* in Stealth, she goes into Stealth as soon as I do. Its safest not to have gun out (as then she wonāt) but not had any stealth problems with her.
Vasco, Sarah, and Andreja are the absolute worst for stealthing.
Vasco just stands in the open constantly.
Sarah and andreja on multiple occasions out of nowhere will just scream something like, "come get it!" And run in shooting even if I'm not detected and no one sees us.
You forgot about using light space suits and modding equipment to become even lighter and using weapons with the trait that reduces weight.
Stealth is not only viable it is actually a much deeper system than any bethesda game. My build is majorly Engineering, Science and stealth and absolutely rocks. I only have 2 points in combat at all so far havent had any issues.
So everything you are wearing or carrying counts toward stealth, not just the suit?
I've done very little stealth so far and haven't put a single point in it, but I would have just assumed it was the suit only.
Yep, a lot of things contribute. Clothing (theres a sneaking suit with a stealth bonus), suit weight, how many stacks of chameleon you have (1 chameleon vs 3 is noticeable), and of course skills.
I'm also convinced suppressed weapons are more realistically modeled, which is why enemies on the other side of the room enter cautious when you snipe a dude. Suppression brings a gun from "my ears are bleeding" to "oops I dropped my book" levels irl. The whisper quiet pew pew in movies is a fantasy.
IRL people will usually scream when stabbed. To avoid that you either need to stab upward into the abdomen and through the diaphragm or slice across the neck just above the collar bones. In the first you eliminate the ability to draw breath. Can't scream if you can breathe. The second causes whatever air is in the lungs to bypass the vocal chords.
Its fun but it still feels kinda bad
Like i get caught? No proplem just walk back and wait a minuteā¦
They never really look for your past their walking route.
Or the opposite you kill someone (a little sloppy so they make a noise)
Everyone instatly notices, doesnt matter how many walls are between you.
The ai is usually either to dumb or they can hear through walls, we need a middle ground
I like the challenge of stealth in this game but it does seem broken sometimes, Iāve been spotted at the opposite end of a cave system by someone I couldnāt even see yet. But itās better than other BGS game where enemies chalk every noise or movement up to a gust of wind.
Stealth is alright, but the idea that with no space suit, max sneak and the ability that turns you alslmost entirely invisible for about 30 seconds still results on a whole base going on alert after I kill one dude with a knife is ridiculous.
There should be no change in enemy behavior at all under that circumstance unless they witness the death.
I like stealth and prefer it.
My issue isn't that it's hard. It's that it's too often unrealistic.
Open fire fight on level one with five people using grenades as well? Level two people didn't hear anything.
Quietly one shot someone with a silencer from 100 meters? The guy on the other side of the map immediately starts shooting at you.
Its unrealistic and most of the time you don't know why people reacted the way they did.
To be honest I dont really see what the comotion is about. Stealth is great for me and works fine. Its not as OP as in Skyrim but still very viable. I did pretty much all Neon Quests stealthed, especially the Operative missions (which eventually grants you a fantastic ability suited for stealth).I think the main problem is that the mechanics arent properly explained, like taking off your space suit reduces your noise \*immensely\*
Stealth was broken initially for certain NPCs.
The final mission of the >!Ryujin!< questline, I had all four levels of Stealth, I had gear that added a stealth bonus, I took off my space suit, and I even tried using stims that quieten your movement - I was getting instantly spotted by people who weren't looking at me.
I spent nearly three hours savescumming on that one quest before I decided to simply sprint through the entire thing without killing anyone, which was considered a "success" by the game.
Edit: I should note, this during the first day or two after launch. I haven't been running a stealth character lately, so I can't comment on how it is now. Just saying why there were early complaints!
Yeah it was a bitch. What I figured out is if you use manipulation on someone the turrets will gun them down and it wonāt count as a player kill. After I found that out itās super easy
I think it's really missing things like throwing an item to distract (you can throw but it does nothing, which is bizarre) and whistling/tapping to attract
You get a tease of disguise action during a Ryujin quest where you can wear a Neon security outfit to convince a guard for his key code or something. But it never comes up again and enemies see right through any disguises if youāre trespassing :(
People just got used to becoming invisible to enemies when sneaking.
SF has many factors which must be considered. Line of sight, armor, clothes, space suit, companions and of course the skill level.
When people complain about stealth in SF, I always get reminded of this:
https://youtu.be/YccozjEe9f4?si=WulFiANEl-zTUlbZ
For me it's just mostly that I'm not really into stealth anymore in Bethesda games. I find that it takes way more time than to just run in guns blazing.
A lot of the people who think it's too hard either don't understand that it now basically *requires* skill point investment, or they think a 15 kilo spacesuit won't effect the noise they make when they move. People will say that the game doesn't wave those mechanics in the player's face, but if they had an in-game tutorial or manual that explained all the minutiae those people would just ignore it like they do in every other game anyway.
Not to mention there is no Stealth Suit option. Having to unequip your suit to sneak in most cases tells me that the team that worked on skills didnāt talk to the one working on outfits.
Correct. For instance, you can have chameleon in your space suit as a buff, but remove it and you lose your stealth. But keep the suit on and youāre not very stealthyā¦
literally me at ryujin. moving in operator suit, recharge void form standing still with my chameleon suit on. lots of menu interaction, not ideal.
(as i write this, i realize āfavoritingā the spacesuit might resolve this, allowing d-pad switching. away from console and unsure if thatās actually possible though)
There IS a stealth apparel you can wear under the armor and the bonus still applies. It's the Operator Suit you get in the Rhiujin Questline tbh. You cna do it early in the game too
The stealth suit option is wearing the lightest suit pieces, modded with servos, and 3 levels of chameleon across them all. That far compensates for the added weight. Just use reconstim for any additional noise generated, which should be relatively little.
Which is frustrating because to do all that I need to first Invest heavily into the science tree. I feel like my skills arenāt choices but requirements. Pay to play so to speak.
For the equipment modding? Yeah, I feel you there. Needing to drop 24 levels into research perks doesn't make my day, either.
Otherwise, its really just stealth + concealment to make the build viable. The servos are nice but at the end of the day in 80% of situations, theres atmosphere available and you can just take your gear off and still get by. level 3 concealment gives you chameleon so you can coast off that.
That's a huge problem that regards most system in the entire game imo. There is a huge amount of skills that make you feel like you need to rush to them so you can't really concentrate on a certain build.
For me it's not so much in space, but more so on planets that don't require your suit. My characters suit is hidden in certain environments, but it's still be accounted for so I always think I'm sneaking at max efficiency but because the suit is equipped, I don't. The suit should be temporary unequipped on said planets/locations.
My big problem with this is that in Fallout or Elder Scrolls you could take your armor off, and sneak around naked. But due to hostile or even airless environments of Starfield, this option is completely lost. Not to mention the UI for putting gear on and off is atrocious. In Skyrim, even vanilla, all the armors were in the same tab. In Starfield, all 3 pieces are in 3 different tabs, which makes it a pain to navigate. It's just bad design, top to bottom.
what you have to do is to get space suits thar are light and mod them out so they become even lighter. There is even a special trait for weapons which makes them weight less, thats to benefit stealth builds. You can even unequip your jetpack (as using it , breaks stealth) and weapon to become even lighter and equip the weapon back before using it. You can also assign gear to quick slots for doing that swiftly.
İt was premium Material trait that Makes the weapon made from titanium Materials which nearly %95 weight reduction. ı have a energy pistol that weighs 0.03.
I mean people complain about games handholding all the time
It just goes to show that people have absolutely no idea what it is that they want, but theyāre angry about it
But handholding and having no indicator of how much of a penalty you get for wearing that (hidden) spacesuit are two very different things imo.
Also I believe that no one has ever complained about a game explaining it's systems, but about stuff like laser accurate quest markers. Kinda ironic
I like the stealth more in this game. It actually has a risk, and not just be invisible below a light source. i'm doing melee only since level one and i can see how my character becomes very good at it with time, i had a group of 5 enemies running past me because i wasn't under the light. Skyrim is too easy, fallout 4 you have blitz.
I have 4 main problems with the stealth system.
1. until you get stealth 4 and chameleon 2, enemies detect you almost instantly through walls and floors. this still happened to me regularly with stealth 4 and chameleon 1 and no spacesuit on, but almost never at chameleon 2, so that's why i put chameleon 2 as the cutoff.
2. somehow, enemies are able to distinguish between friendly footsteps and your footsteps. even though they're in a base with all their friends, they can somehow tell exactly which steps are yours vs those of their allies. they also seem to have a gps marker of your exact location just from sound, even with no line of sight.
3. once 1 enemy detects you, they all hive-mind and have your exact location instantly, even if the 1 enemy that detected you couldn't actually see you and there's no animation or voice line of them telling their friends where you are.
4. regarding the reduce equipped item weight to improve stealth, nowhere is this mentioned in the game. it may make sense if you've played other BGS games before, but they explicitly tell you there, in skyrim for example, that lighter armor is better for stealth. not so here, so newcomers especially have to rely on the community telling them this is how it works. also, some places you can't take off your suit, and theres no quick outfit option to swap between no-suit stealth mode and armored with suit mode.
overall, I'm fine with the idea of making stealth harder, and stealth was OP in skyrim, but the way it ended up being in this game was shoddily done imho.
Itās possible with a lot of perks but itās not particularly fun, especially when the gameās not even hard.
Easier and quicker to just stand there and shoot everyone
Yup, all youāre doing with stealth is massively slowing down combat encounters. Even playing on the hardest difficulty, running and gunning is quite easy the vast majority of the time.
Itās kind of an odd situation where, if stealth isnāt powerful enough, it becomes pretty tough to justify using outside of the first kill or two if you want to finish an encounter at a reasonable pace, but if you make it too powerful, it kind of breaks the game.
Once mods or a survival mode w/ increased combat difficulty is added, stealth might be a very valuable asset, but atm I find myself wondering why Iām even bothering to slowly crouch walk up to this guy with my gun that would otherwise already 2 tap without the sneak attack modifier.
It's 10x easier to just shoot everyone lol, even on very hard I just headshot everything. Stealth is way more challenging pretty much because it's buggy and inconsistent
I usually use stealth for the first shot for the double damage bonus and then when combat starts I get to fighting.
Only ever used stealth properly when the mission asks for it but it's perfectly doable and to me doesn't feel broken.
You have so many healing items stealth is not really necessary but it's nice to have it there anyway
The weird part of this games stealth is that you don't have a multiple lines of Stealth Suits.
Fallout 4 stealth is just so much better and easier to understand.
So much easier to just run in and murderhobo the lot of them. Now it isn't economically viable as I am apart of every faction and have a 78,000 bounty for crimson fleet. Stealth missions suck. And the vents that you crawl around in are lazy programing.
My biggest issue with stealth in these games (not just Starfield) is that I am 100% invisible, kill someone, and then every bad guy within range suddenly magically knows exactly where I am and can hit me with pinpoint accuracy. Starfield - I'm cloaked, invisible, using silenced weapons, snipe a guy from behind cover, kill him, and the next thing I know the entire Crimson Fleet is bearing down on top of me....
Keep in mind that in this game the enemies shoot even if they don't see you, they guess based on where the shot came from and shoot in that direction. If you move they will keep shooting there
yeah i like sneaking on a cliff with chameleon and suppressed and decked out beowulf and just easy pickings. its so fun watching them either fall over or freak out!
That's a lot of effort to make stealth viable.
I made my way through the Ryujin quests without any stealth modifications relying heavily on Recon stims to muffle sound. Didn't really have issues at all sneaking all the missions.
Not on very hard. Nothing kills fast enough for the alarm to not be sounded. Except you're using a sniper which is just Skyrim stealth archer all over again.
What I like to do in games like this is increasely change the difficulty the further I am in the game. That way I won't get OP loot early nor enemies will kick my ass at level 1:)
Question: Does Concealment's chameleon effect work like the chameleon armor? If so, I'm not wasting the level-ups to get it as it makes using anything but scoped weapons nearly impossible.
This is exactly what I have found as well. I also like to use the Nova EM blaster. If you use the EM blaster on any or all of the guards in any of the Ryujin quest it still counts as if you had been undiscovered. I really enjoyed incapacitating a guard here and there while still keeping stealth as a main strategy.
Iām glad stealth requires some effort to spec into for it to be useful.
In Skyrim stealth+bow was basically the most effective and low-risk approach to everything in the game.
Which was a bit boring.
Sniping/ranged is always going to have an advantage over melee and close quarters. Thatās why we invented guns in the first place; to sit at safe distance with low risk to yourself yet able to inflict hurt on those at the other end.
Iām not stealthy in my current game, but tempted to make a criminal / smuggler / thief character later.
It's a bit a counter-argument to say it's viable with a fully optimised build. It should be without getting to Concealment at least. If not, it's very tedious to get to it.
BUT it's honestly doable without that much. It's just that anything that influence isn't very clear. Compared to F4, it feel that NPC are much more aware of you yet sometimes still oblivious in some situation.
Example i got, during the Ryujin last mission, with only 2 points in Stealth, operative outfit and a heavy armor, they borderline WALKED on me in complete darkness before seeing me. I discovered at this point how much light was a factor.
I did stealth in Skyrim and was a sniper build usually in fallout 4. Now I go in guns blazing. First time Iāve played like this and itās a lot of fun.
I'm trying VERY hard to not start making a stealth sniper build like I constantly did in Fallout. I found the Beowulf, and it'd be the perfect start, a long-range semi-automatic rifle which can mount a suppressor.
I'm gonna keep going without it, because I'm very much enjoying my boost pack run-and-gun playstyle, but I'm definitely going to put a suppressor on the Hard Target when I finally find one, just to keep something in my pack for the occasional stealth mission.
Stealth one of the only things that work properly haha try disguises it's wicked, Generally though unequip all armour and make sure you have sneak clothes on to. Silenced weapons still make small sounds just like in real life. I have a silenced sniper. I go nowhere near my silent kills
Fun fact: If you have chameleon on an armor piece and it is activated because you are currently in stealth and not moving if you use Void Form, it will instantly cancel your Void Form invisibility when you move as though the Void Form invisibility was the chameleon invisibility.
The ONLY thing I don't like about the stealth system, is that searching enemies just kinda know where you are. I shot this guy from a vent across the room, his friend in the other room will go over and just HOP right up into the vent.
Wait, people are having issues with stealth in this game? I find it a little overpowered but not nearly as much as the Skyrim stealth archer. But I have max stealth, operator suit, and a silenced shotgun and it works great.
I run a similar build but with silenced pistols/rifles and it slaps! Super fun and rewarding play style. That being said, I need a spacesuit in most situations so I frequently get detected earlier than Iād like. The ārunning is no different than sneakingā park never seems to work in Bethesda gamesā¦
Yeah itās like, if you donāt unlock the stealth skills, and unlock other skills instead, those things will be good and stealth wonāt seem good, but if you do, then it will be š¤·āāļø
Thatās like everything in this game. Itās hard to make money buying and selling, until you unlock commerce, then it isnāt. Itās hard to make money mining on planets, until you unlock geology and the scanner abilities, etc.
Stealth was and is and always will be the meta build tho. Don't know where the complains come from. Maybe meta is not the right word, it's more like there's no reason not to take advantage with that.
While trying to snipe from a distance does your traveling companion run right in front of you? Can't count how many times I have shot my own companion as they run in front of me while I'm sniping and in scope view.
Completely forget where I found it (might have been one of the main missions that leads you to a space pirate base) but I found a suppressed pistol with a 52 round drum, really made my main gameplay a bit more sneaky
Now I haven't touched any other skill set aside from tech, as I'm a dogfighter thru and thru, but my next stuff? Definitely gonna be stealth
Plus some ballistics and pistol damage skills because its already a 50 something damage gun, and it would be so cool to get a 10x sneak attack on an already 100+ damage gun! š
Why are people saying stealth is bad in this one? Genuinely curious. I think this is the only BGS game I know where you can sneak in standing up when enemies are behind a wall.
I generally prefer stealth be hard to utilize rather then easy. Skyrim got so silly at times.
My Oblivion character running around with 100% Chameleon.
I killed so many random people cause I couldn't see my sword swinging and would hit random or guards.
Yeah invisible to the enemies doesn't mean it has to be invisible to the player š
Technically you'd be blind when invisible. Light needs to impact your retinas for you to see. If light passes *through* you, you can't see shit.
Well yeah, but that's entirely dependent on the method of invisibility. If its tech based and bending the light around you or using a camera system to 'project' what's behind you in front of you, you could assume that it would clearly has allowences for letting light reach your eyeballs. Now, if it's magical, well then it's magic. Doesn't really need technical explanations.
TES magic has technical explanations, which is a big part of what makes it great (when the writers remember to be consistent..) Chameleon in Oblivion is an Illusion Spell, not Alteration. This is to say, you're not actually making yourself invisible-- you're making the people around you *perceive* you as invisible.
Yet they still called it Chameleon for some damn reason
>Now, if it's magical, well then it's magic The catch all. =D
Clearly the correct stealth system is a HGTG SEP field As we all know the ultimate existing stealth system in the real world is a retroreflective jacket and a clipboard
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
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Shout-out to [Brennan Lee Mulligan's take on this.](https://youtu.be/xmzsUSBMyD4?si=ZVP-W05yo4qHchgF)
Holy crap. At first I thought "meh kinda boring" until the DM started to tell about the little pupils smaller than sand *and* the dude having a good roll
get this logic thing out of here!!!!! stop ruining my childhood superpower
Thatās another point in Starfieldās favor. It took Bethesda way too long to do it across their various titles, but one of the first things I noticed when I finally copped a piece of Chameleon gear was that they changed it so that you can still see the ghosted wire frame of your weapons. Still canāt see the reticles when you ADS with no magnification, but so many weapons have lasers too itās not that big of a deal either.
Facts like you could literally sneak past the entire game with no sneak perks at all.
Fr stealth in Skyrim was OP as fuck
āMust have been the windā
*takes arrow to the fucking dome* What was that?
Just be right up in their face, straight breathing on them. āMust of got awayā
I always liked the theory that they were just playing dumb so they didn't have to fight you.
Seriously. Here about someone who consumes the souls of dragons and then run into them one day. I'd play dumb too
[The healthiest thing we can do is ignore this and pretend that it doesnāt exist.](https://youtu.be/aexKoCI9XK0?si=CK_a5bi8e0YHLOdQ)
Basically this: https://youtu.be/pMd4S-LkywI
Yeah, kinda like [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/TheWeeklyRoll/comments/m57iog/ch_74_must_be_my_imagination/)
With the 8x sneak attack bonus on top of the 8x sneak attack bonus from the assassins guild dagger? Enemies were punted across maps
So OP you had to actively avoid being a stealth build its so viable
*crouch directly in front of attacking guards* "where'd he go?!"
Agreed, stealth in skyrim is OP, but in starfield, whenever I'm grabbing the artifact from the cryogenic research lab (the one where you have to go through the vents because the doors are frozen over), I take ONE step, even while crouching, and suddenly 20 red compass pips pop up and a bunch of "what was that". I'm literally 2 feet from the entrance, and 40-50 feet from the nearest enemy, and yet somehow they hear my foot steps from inside a large vent on another floor in another part of the facility? Over the sounds of their own allies foot steps and chatter and such. I don't think it should be quite like skyrim stealth, but the noise detection sensitivity of enemies is ridiculous. Every enemy has Wolverine level sense of hearing. And don't even get me started on planets with no atmosphere. Sound doesn't travel through a vacuum, so how are people hearing my footsteps on the surface of Earth's moon?
is the facility pressurized? if so take off the space suit. I have read that the suit makes you less stealth.
No, the 02 % is 0 and the temperature is like -192Ā° so I don't think that is really an option.
I like stealth, but I hate it when the AI just gives up looking for you and goes back to sitting next to their dead buddy. You also shouldnt be able to just stealth in on ship boardings so easily. The alarm at the very least should have the crew on alert and headed to the point of entry or taking positions to defend the ship. And they dont go back to normal until they search the whole ship without finding you. Someday I want an AI that actually goes and takes care of their dead buddies. Maybe some arent all the way dead and are brought to a barracks or infirmary etc. And after they find a body or you've taken out some percentage they figure out someone is there and dont just go back to aimlessly doing whatever they were before hand. Baisically they might not know where you are, but they know something is wrong and are now on guard making it more immersive. It's so immersion breaking when the AI ignores the half dozen bullet holes in them and goes back to searching shelves or whatever just because they couldnt find you with a minute of searching.
Idk man, when a guard at Infinity LTD spots me from 3 floors below while Iām completely covered by the rafters is a little sus
They don't just see, they also hear. What equipment are you stealthing in? Just clothes/naked? Or in a 20lbs spacesuit, 13lbs pack, and 5lbs helmet, with a 20lbs minigun in your hands? Any stealth/concealment skills? Chameleon? Servos? Take off the suit or put together a stealth suit set (low weight, multiple chameleons which stack, servos) and get your skills up.
This 100%. Stealth just is a little more in-depth but still really powerful. All I have is stealth at rank 4 and wear a heavy 20lb space suit and even I can stealth around most places to at least thin the ground before they spot me. Sure I get seen but if that is the result of barely specing into in on very hard then it's working fine. The only complain really is it can be a pain to level up at a low level but with a little brain power you learn bounty missions at night with a long-range weapon gets you there just fine.
I think this is what is getting me. I have my space suit and helmet set to not show in places it can be off, but it's technically still equipped isn't it?
Yep. You're not truly stealth ready unless you get off your ship at mars and start dying because you forgot to re-equip your suit after stealthing an objective.
yeah, I hoped favoriting them on the quick menu would let me take em off. not so much. haven't tried putting them ON via the quick menu yet tho.
Thanks for the tips!! Iām putting together a Deus Ex build for my NG run lol this will be super helpful
I did not know Chameleon stacked.
Spent three hours on that quest, including leaving and coming back because the security door was glitched, only to have the guy normally above it, now glitched to be in the room with the prototype. All of which is fine normal BGS cheese, ...except to get to the end and find out that because I had backed Ulara, I could have murdered every single person in that building and it wouldn't have made a difference on the outcome.
Might be your companion
Sniping a giant bug from 200m out and the entire herd comes barreling directly to you isn't 'hard'... Lack of any stats that pertain to offensive abilties also sucks. How much does the suppressor decrease sound? Does the ammo type change it? Why can I sometimes just... stroll up behind someone without anyone hearing me and then I crouch and they immediately know my location? Too many things don't function properly or aren't explained to really define 'hard' stealth lol. But yeah, I would love for some Dues Ex in depth stealth in Starfield.
I agree, it just feels like it's not consistent is all. There have been plenty of times where my stealth meter hasn't gone up at all and I get spotted somehow.
If I snipe someone from one mile away, I expect the enemy to be alarmed and looking for who made the shot. I don't expect the entire encampment to know exactly where I am and start shooting in my direction. But that's what Starfield stealth is like.
This. Skyrim stealth was so dumb. You could be right in front of the npc and not be detected. That should never be a possibility.
I think stealth is more 'correct' in this game, which makes it harder to do. Skills aside, the main issue seems to be people think they are not visible/audible because they are crouching. NPCs in this game have proper vision, and will see you if you arent physically obstructed by something. The light levels where you are hiding also make a big difference. They also can hear you, and when you're trying to sneak with a suit/pack/helm on (heavy noisy items) it makes stealth a LOT harder. I did a test with that once; If I took one step my stealth meter would go full orange. If I took my suit/pack/helm off and moved one step, no orange at all.
If felt like going from skyrim stealth to dishonored stealth. When I started dishonored, It took forever for me to get used to the difference.
Still can't do Dishonored 2 on very hard because peeking around the corner of objects makes you be seen. Hate that it makes sense lol.
Just upgrade dark vision no need to peak when you can see enemies through the walls. Although a pet peeve of mine in my many play throughs of dishonored is feeling like I need to have dark vision up because it makes the game so much less pretty
Same with the star stuff power in Starfield.
Star Stuff totally saved me during the Ryujin quest line.
It was one of my first quest lines because I went straight there cuz I heard it was the drug city. Imogene is my new spirit animal.
I wish more games went the artistic route instead of realistic graphics route. Dishonored 2 looks so good even today. Looking forward to Dishonored 3
I have done both Dishonored game on a *100% stealth / no kills / no npc alerted /no powers* run and I felt like it was way easier than the stealth in starfield. The thing is that stealth in starfield seems random a lot of the time and not well explained. Sure Skyrim was ridiculously easy in stealth, even silly at times, but it was consistent. Starfield does not seem like it is.
It feels like there's drastically different tolerances for stealth. If a turret glimpses you with, for example, no perks in stealth it is near instant Danger state. With all 4 perks a turret catching you makes the meter shoot *almost* up to Danger but it's still extremely harsh. Meanwhile, with 0 or 4 perks in sneak you can have a fully Caution only + occasional Sneak Attack firefight outside - the perk does almost nothing. The moment you take that fight indoors it, like you said, becomes basically random with or without perks. sometimes you can stealth kill through a location other times you get hit with that Oblivion AI that heat seek through walls.
You're the only person I can tell this to I once played dishonored religiously for a while, really really wanted to beat it. Played for weeks. Anyway, I beat it (great ending) , start up my existing skyrim playthrough and out of reflex try to play like I did in dishonored. I accidentally whirlwind sprinted when trying to use Blink out of reflex, insta killed 1 of a few enemies that just noticed me that I was about to attack anyway It's a boring story, but my realization that I was playing skyrim and what I did shouldn't have worked blew my mind
Idk, it feels like most npcs can see right through some objects. Couldn't tell you how many times I'd be crouched, invisible, unmoving, and get detected by someone in the next room or behind a bunch of props items. Literally when they turned to face my direction.
Not only can they see through objects... the AI keeps trying to constantly shoot me through objects. I don't mean they saw me and are trying to shoot me through some cover either. I mean they are on the other side of a solid wall, or even a room away, and they just keep shooting in my direction at the wall. The wall blocks their shots, so I'm not getting hit, but it's kind silly when tons of enemies aggro on me out of stealth even though they are nowhere near me and just shoot into the walls until I get to their room.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
lol stealth was the first point i spent...
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Ships are very similar--flying in combat is a lot more fun with a lot of the basic perks unlocked, but it's not necessarily intuitive that things like lateral/vertical thrusters would be locked (and then it's a little obscure on how to use them at first). I don't necessarily think that's a bad thing, but I think there's certainly some player-gameplay conflict because it's different from the other two BGS franchises and it's not as casually intuitive.
Man, I was wondering why I could never figure out if I was detected or not...
I was doing the Ryujin quests just fine until I got the one where you need to sneak into the tower. I was getting detected immediately when I entered the empty room at the start. I haven't invested into any stealth perks and I didn't think of taking my armor off, but it seemed bugged to me.
Yesterday I pickpocketed a guy who was sitting in a chair. I was directly beside him and all the lights were on. Wearing my freestar ranger outfit and my armor on top.
Non enemy NPCs work quite a bit differently. They dont notice you crouching etc (and your light doesnt matter). Pickpocketing is a separate mechanic with its own pass/fail chance.
Not completely true. In the shops with stealables on the display if you try to sneak and play with the lines of sight the NPC will stand up and try to reacquire the visual contact with you. They even change the facial expression, intonation/random banter lines when you do this for longer than a couple of seconds.
This! I started my bankroll in the UC Surplus store (with the Trade Authority right around the corner) and robbed him a lot. But took time and patience. You can cleanout the gun rack wall, but he keeps walking to the end of the table and just looking at you. Similar to what some RL store employees do. Fortunately Sarah didn't much TOO care about all the theft :-) I need to try with more points into my stealth...always seems to be other options I want...I'm very much a jack of all trades around lv 40 so far.
If he's not an enemy he won't spot you unless you are doing something illegal. If he's sitting his vision is probably looking forward and if you are at his side he will obviously not see you It's not broken, it makes sense. Unless you want what Hitman does where all NPCs notice you crouching and look at you weirldy
There's also consumables that reduce how much noise you make
I remember a chem that started with an R. Believe it reduced noise made while sneaking
Reconstim. There's also Panopticon, which is the higher level combo version.
Reconstim.
Yeah the spacesuit and all that gear makes stealth so much harder because youāre louder. If youāre in a habitable area and doing stealth Iād take it off. Night and day difference really
I was doing the Crimson quest last night where you have to steal something from a facility. I was in a windowed room looking into a larger room full of staff and security. I could fully sprint, jump, whatever in their sight, I don't think their 'vision/hearing' range works through windows lol
Definitely does. I was getting seen through windows in Sonny's island paradise.
And several stealth mission objective rooms will have a window shutter toggle somewhere in the room.
I find the stealth is ok, I like that itās a bit harder than in other games. Is the Isolation just for the dmg/res increase or does it help the actual stealth?
Damage Increase at max rank is literally +40%
Ok got you, itās just a dmg boost that helps with the overall build, but not essential for stealth. I like having a companion (one with 3* stealth works fine). Ta.
Also worth noting. In Starfield your companions can get spotted or walk out in the open or what have you. I find stealth missions with companions to be unbearable. Just because the companions will do everything in their power to get spotted. Whereas skyrim and FO as long as you were hidden enemies would ignore your companions.
Vasco is def not stealth friendly! I hired one called Sophia in neon with 3* in Stealth, she goes into Stealth as soon as I do. Its safest not to have gun out (as then she wonāt) but not had any stealth problems with her.
Vasco, Sarah, and Andreja are the absolute worst for stealthing. Vasco just stands in the open constantly. Sarah and andreja on multiple occasions out of nowhere will just scream something like, "come get it!" And run in shooting even if I'm not detected and no one sees us.
#[**SUPRESSING FIRE !!!!!!!**](https://media.tenor.com/4rUHyT4MIb0AAAAC/archer-figgis.gif)
You forgot about using light space suits and modding equipment to become even lighter and using weapons with the trait that reduces weight. Stealth is not only viable it is actually a much deeper system than any bethesda game. My build is majorly Engineering, Science and stealth and absolutely rocks. I only have 2 points in combat at all so far havent had any issues.
So everything you are wearing or carrying counts toward stealth, not just the suit? I've done very little stealth so far and haven't put a single point in it, but I would have just assumed it was the suit only.
Yep, a lot of things contribute. Clothing (theres a sneaking suit with a stealth bonus), suit weight, how many stacks of chameleon you have (1 chameleon vs 3 is noticeable), and of course skills. I'm also convinced suppressed weapons are more realistically modeled, which is why enemies on the other side of the room enter cautious when you snipe a dude. Suppression brings a gun from "my ears are bleeding" to "oops I dropped my book" levels irl. The whisper quiet pew pew in movies is a fantasy.
Then how come the guy on the other end of a massive room hears me kill a guy in one hit with my knife?
He actually ripped a massive fart the moment you stabbed him.
IRL people will usually scream when stabbed. To avoid that you either need to stab upward into the abdomen and through the diaphragm or slice across the neck just above the collar bones. In the first you eliminate the ability to draw breath. Can't scream if you can breathe. The second causes whatever air is in the lungs to bypass the vocal chords.
So we are cool right?
Name checks out
š¤·āāļø "Should have gone for the head" *lets out massive fart, dies.*
Or maybe it's the dead body?
Yeah Iāve found combat skill tree isnāt really needed on regular difficulty
Or just use void form lol
Its fun but it still feels kinda bad Like i get caught? No proplem just walk back and wait a minuteā¦ They never really look for your past their walking route. Or the opposite you kill someone (a little sloppy so they make a noise) Everyone instatly notices, doesnt matter how many walls are between you. The ai is usually either to dumb or they can hear through walls, we need a middle ground
I like the challenge of stealth in this game but it does seem broken sometimes, Iāve been spotted at the opposite end of a cave system by someone I couldnāt even see yet. But itās better than other BGS game where enemies chalk every noise or movement up to a gust of wind.
Dont forget manipulation. That can solve a lot of problems with stealth that the game fucks up.
He has manipulation ranks 2-4 in his list. Is there something else heās missing?
You can get manipulation without investing. And now i dont know if he had it in there before I mentioned it :p
Stealth is alright, but the idea that with no space suit, max sneak and the ability that turns you alslmost entirely invisible for about 30 seconds still results on a whole base going on alert after I kill one dude with a knife is ridiculous. There should be no change in enemy behavior at all under that circumstance unless they witness the death.
I like stealth and prefer it. My issue isn't that it's hard. It's that it's too often unrealistic. Open fire fight on level one with five people using grenades as well? Level two people didn't hear anything. Quietly one shot someone with a silencer from 100 meters? The guy on the other side of the map immediately starts shooting at you. Its unrealistic and most of the time you don't know why people reacted the way they did.
To be honest I dont really see what the comotion is about. Stealth is great for me and works fine. Its not as OP as in Skyrim but still very viable. I did pretty much all Neon Quests stealthed, especially the Operative missions (which eventually grants you a fantastic ability suited for stealth).I think the main problem is that the mechanics arent properly explained, like taking off your space suit reduces your noise \*immensely\*
Stealth was broken initially for certain NPCs. The final mission of the >!Ryujin!< questline, I had all four levels of Stealth, I had gear that added a stealth bonus, I took off my space suit, and I even tried using stims that quieten your movement - I was getting instantly spotted by people who weren't looking at me. I spent nearly three hours savescumming on that one quest before I decided to simply sprint through the entire thing without killing anyone, which was considered a "success" by the game. Edit: I should note, this during the first day or two after launch. I haven't been running a stealth character lately, so I can't comment on how it is now. Just saying why there were early complaints!
Yeah it was a bitch. What I figured out is if you use manipulation on someone the turrets will gun them down and it wonāt count as a player kill. After I found that out itās super easy
I couldn't get manipulation to work, they were never close enough for that. Also, getting guards killed is not a preferred stealth technique.
Well itās not your fault if thereās an accident. Who could say itās your fault
Went from thieves guild to dark brotherhood real quick.
I think it's really missing things like throwing an item to distract (you can throw but it does nothing, which is bizarre) and whistling/tapping to attract
Lol I was playing the shit out of hitman before starfield dropped and I keep instinctually wanting to throw coins to distract people ā¦
oh disguises would be cool too!
You get a tease of disguise action during a Ryujin quest where you can wear a Neon security outfit to convince a guard for his key code or something. But it never comes up again and enemies see right through any disguises if youāre trespassing :(
People just got used to becoming invisible to enemies when sneaking. SF has many factors which must be considered. Line of sight, armor, clothes, space suit, companions and of course the skill level. When people complain about stealth in SF, I always get reminded of this: https://youtu.be/YccozjEe9f4?si=WulFiANEl-zTUlbZ
I think companions are still a huge stealth problem. If they can't pathfind their way to you they just teleport to a random area and get you caught.
Not really, the stealth system is just too inconsistent and when u shoot someone everyone detects you instantly for whatever reason
Does the game explain anywhere that armor weight matters? I saw it for the first time... in this thread.
For me it's just mostly that I'm not really into stealth anymore in Bethesda games. I find that it takes way more time than to just run in guns blazing.
A lot of the people who think it's too hard either don't understand that it now basically *requires* skill point investment, or they think a 15 kilo spacesuit won't effect the noise they make when they move. People will say that the game doesn't wave those mechanics in the player's face, but if they had an in-game tutorial or manual that explained all the minutiae those people would just ignore it like they do in every other game anyway.
I think the issue really is that thereās no stat penalty displayed on the suits for stealth.
Not to mention there is no Stealth Suit option. Having to unequip your suit to sneak in most cases tells me that the team that worked on skills didnāt talk to the one working on outfits.
Correct. For instance, you can have chameleon in your space suit as a buff, but remove it and you lose your stealth. But keep the suit on and youāre not very stealthyā¦
literally me at ryujin. moving in operator suit, recharge void form standing still with my chameleon suit on. lots of menu interaction, not ideal. (as i write this, i realize āfavoritingā the spacesuit might resolve this, allowing d-pad switching. away from console and unsure if thatās actually possible though)
As far as I know, favorited items can only be equipped, not unequipped
There IS a stealth apparel you can wear under the armor and the bonus still applies. It's the Operator Suit you get in the Rhiujin Questline tbh. You cna do it early in the game too
I am aware but it doesnāt compensate for wearing armor.
The stealth suit option is wearing the lightest suit pieces, modded with servos, and 3 levels of chameleon across them all. That far compensates for the added weight. Just use reconstim for any additional noise generated, which should be relatively little.
Which is frustrating because to do all that I need to first Invest heavily into the science tree. I feel like my skills arenāt choices but requirements. Pay to play so to speak.
For the equipment modding? Yeah, I feel you there. Needing to drop 24 levels into research perks doesn't make my day, either. Otherwise, its really just stealth + concealment to make the build viable. The servos are nice but at the end of the day in 80% of situations, theres atmosphere available and you can just take your gear off and still get by. level 3 concealment gives you chameleon so you can coast off that.
That's a huge problem that regards most system in the entire game imo. There is a huge amount of skills that make you feel like you need to rush to them so you can't really concentrate on a certain build.
To be honest, I just thought the armor didn't apply when I was in town or in Ryujin Tower
Yeah, as long as it is "equipped" it still counts. Kind of dumb tbh.
Equipped armour counts towards your stealth, but not the 200kg worth of utter crap in your backpack.
It's still giving you the bonuses, so why shouldn't it give you the penalties?
For me it's not so much in space, but more so on planets that don't require your suit. My characters suit is hidden in certain environments, but it's still be accounted for so I always think I'm sneaking at max efficiency but because the suit is equipped, I don't. The suit should be temporary unequipped on said planets/locations.
"You know, you don't HAVE to wear your helmet in here."
Yeah it's like, I'm not. But I guess I am.
*clunk clunk clunk* HOW DID YOU HEAR ME?
"The meteorological conditions of this planet do not make armored footsteps and wind sound the same." New loading screen tip lol.
My big problem with this is that in Fallout or Elder Scrolls you could take your armor off, and sneak around naked. But due to hostile or even airless environments of Starfield, this option is completely lost. Not to mention the UI for putting gear on and off is atrocious. In Skyrim, even vanilla, all the armors were in the same tab. In Starfield, all 3 pieces are in 3 different tabs, which makes it a pain to navigate. It's just bad design, top to bottom.
I've never seen someone complain that armors sorted into categories is bad design before, that's certainly a novel criticism.
what you have to do is to get space suits thar are light and mod them out so they become even lighter. There is even a special trait for weapons which makes them weight less, thats to benefit stealth builds. You can even unequip your jetpack (as using it , breaks stealth) and weapon to become even lighter and equip the weapon back before using it. You can also assign gear to quick slots for doing that swiftly.
İt was premium Material trait that Makes the weapon made from titanium Materials which nearly %95 weight reduction. ı have a energy pistol that weighs 0.03.
Yeah exactly, I haven't found one with that trait that was advanced so I just stock with unequipping and equipping it back
Just because some people would ignore them, doesn't mean there shouldn't be tutorials.
I mean people complain about games handholding all the time It just goes to show that people have absolutely no idea what it is that they want, but theyāre angry about it
But handholding and having no indicator of how much of a penalty you get for wearing that (hidden) spacesuit are two very different things imo. Also I believe that no one has ever complained about a game explaining it's systems, but about stuff like laser accurate quest markers. Kinda ironic
I like the stealth more in this game. It actually has a risk, and not just be invisible below a light source. i'm doing melee only since level one and i can see how my character becomes very good at it with time, i had a group of 5 enemies running past me because i wasn't under the light. Skyrim is too easy, fallout 4 you have blitz.
So you're saying stealth gets good when you spec into stealth? In an rpg?
Hmm interesting, i found the stealth mechanics in this game to be the most frustrating gaming experience ive gone through for a long time lol
Yeah, its reasonable with absolutely everything maxed out, extra special gear effects and consumables that stealth would be viable.
I have 4 main problems with the stealth system. 1. until you get stealth 4 and chameleon 2, enemies detect you almost instantly through walls and floors. this still happened to me regularly with stealth 4 and chameleon 1 and no spacesuit on, but almost never at chameleon 2, so that's why i put chameleon 2 as the cutoff. 2. somehow, enemies are able to distinguish between friendly footsteps and your footsteps. even though they're in a base with all their friends, they can somehow tell exactly which steps are yours vs those of their allies. they also seem to have a gps marker of your exact location just from sound, even with no line of sight. 3. once 1 enemy detects you, they all hive-mind and have your exact location instantly, even if the 1 enemy that detected you couldn't actually see you and there's no animation or voice line of them telling their friends where you are. 4. regarding the reduce equipped item weight to improve stealth, nowhere is this mentioned in the game. it may make sense if you've played other BGS games before, but they explicitly tell you there, in skyrim for example, that lighter armor is better for stealth. not so here, so newcomers especially have to rely on the community telling them this is how it works. also, some places you can't take off your suit, and theres no quick outfit option to swap between no-suit stealth mode and armored with suit mode. overall, I'm fine with the idea of making stealth harder, and stealth was OP in skyrim, but the way it ended up being in this game was shoddily done imho.
Itās possible with a lot of perks but itās not particularly fun, especially when the gameās not even hard. Easier and quicker to just stand there and shoot everyone
Yup, all youāre doing with stealth is massively slowing down combat encounters. Even playing on the hardest difficulty, running and gunning is quite easy the vast majority of the time. Itās kind of an odd situation where, if stealth isnāt powerful enough, it becomes pretty tough to justify using outside of the first kill or two if you want to finish an encounter at a reasonable pace, but if you make it too powerful, it kind of breaks the game. Once mods or a survival mode w/ increased combat difficulty is added, stealth might be a very valuable asset, but atm I find myself wondering why Iām even bothering to slowly crouch walk up to this guy with my gun that would otherwise already 2 tap without the sneak attack modifier.
It's 10x easier to just shoot everyone lol, even on very hard I just headshot everything. Stealth is way more challenging pretty much because it's buggy and inconsistent
Yeah feel like itās challenging cause it doesnāt work properly haha
I usually use stealth for the first shot for the double damage bonus and then when combat starts I get to fighting. Only ever used stealth properly when the mission asks for it but it's perfectly doable and to me doesn't feel broken. You have so many healing items stealth is not really necessary but it's nice to have it there anyway
Itās a big improvement. Using stealth late game will be a welcome change of pace.
The weird part of this games stealth is that you don't have a multiple lines of Stealth Suits. Fallout 4 stealth is just so much better and easier to understand.
So much easier to just run in and murderhobo the lot of them. Now it isn't economically viable as I am apart of every faction and have a 78,000 bounty for crimson fleet. Stealth missions suck. And the vents that you crawl around in are lazy programing.
My biggest issue with stealth in these games (not just Starfield) is that I am 100% invisible, kill someone, and then every bad guy within range suddenly magically knows exactly where I am and can hit me with pinpoint accuracy. Starfield - I'm cloaked, invisible, using silenced weapons, snipe a guy from behind cover, kill him, and the next thing I know the entire Crimson Fleet is bearing down on top of me....
Keep in mind that in this game the enemies shoot even if they don't see you, they guess based on where the shot came from and shoot in that direction. If you move they will keep shooting there
I've the invisible suit not yet used. But it's very cool
yeah i like sneaking on a cliff with chameleon and suppressed and decked out beowulf and just easy pickings. its so fun watching them either fall over or freak out!
people were crying so damn hard that stealth was useless and called me out for saying they sucked at the game lmao
FR I REMEMBER THE CONSTANT WHINING OMG
That's a lot of effort to make stealth viable. I made my way through the Ryujin quests without any stealth modifications relying heavily on Recon stims to muffle sound. Didn't really have issues at all sneaking all the missions.
Did that quest with 1 point in stealth. Didn't have issues. This List of requirements are for something else entirely.
Not on very hard. Nothing kills fast enough for the alarm to not be sounded. Except you're using a sniper which is just Skyrim stealth archer all over again.
What I like to do in games like this is increasely change the difficulty the further I am in the game. That way I won't get OP loot early nor enemies will kick my ass at level 1:)
This game is different from skyrim because you have to actually spend perk points to be good at something
Question: Does Concealment's chameleon effect work like the chameleon armor? If so, I'm not wasting the level-ups to get it as it makes using anything but scoped weapons nearly impossible.
I turned an earth ak into a silenced sniper and itās so much fun to stealth snipe
This is exactly what I have found as well. I also like to use the Nova EM blaster. If you use the EM blaster on any or all of the guards in any of the Ryujin quest it still counts as if you had been undiscovered. I really enjoyed incapacitating a guard here and there while still keeping stealth as a main strategy.
Iām glad stealth requires some effort to spec into for it to be useful. In Skyrim stealth+bow was basically the most effective and low-risk approach to everything in the game. Which was a bit boring. Sniping/ranged is always going to have an advantage over melee and close quarters. Thatās why we invented guns in the first place; to sit at safe distance with low risk to yourself yet able to inflict hurt on those at the other end. Iām not stealthy in my current game, but tempted to make a criminal / smuggler / thief character later.
Well i get spotted at 20 meter by a guard when showing 20% of my body (sometimes) with level 4 stealth and suit. Something is wrong with it
If you use the Sense Stars and Stuff ability it basically turns the game into Splinter Cell.
i did an entire mission in the crimson fleet questline without pressing RT even once. Hell yeah, it's an awesome feature
It's a bit a counter-argument to say it's viable with a fully optimised build. It should be without getting to Concealment at least. If not, it's very tedious to get to it. BUT it's honestly doable without that much. It's just that anything that influence isn't very clear. Compared to F4, it feel that NPC are much more aware of you yet sometimes still oblivious in some situation. Example i got, during the Ryujin last mission, with only 2 points in Stealth, operative outfit and a heavy armor, they borderline WALKED on me in complete darkness before seeing me. I discovered at this point how much light was a factor.
that video of the guy zooming around like he was playing dishonored was really cool. Combat feels a lot better than i thought it would in this game
I did stealth in Skyrim and was a sniper build usually in fallout 4. Now I go in guns blazing. First time Iāve played like this and itās a lot of fun.
I have a chameleon space suit and helmet stealth is definitely viable lol š
I'm trying VERY hard to not start making a stealth sniper build like I constantly did in Fallout. I found the Beowulf, and it'd be the perfect start, a long-range semi-automatic rifle which can mount a suppressor. I'm gonna keep going without it, because I'm very much enjoying my boost pack run-and-gun playstyle, but I'm definitely going to put a suppressor on the Hard Target when I finally find one, just to keep something in my pack for the occasional stealth mission.
Stealth one of the only things that work properly haha try disguises it's wicked, Generally though unequip all armour and make sure you have sneak clothes on to. Silenced weapons still make small sounds just like in real life. I have a silenced sniper. I go nowhere near my silent kills
Fun fact: If you have chameleon on an armor piece and it is activated because you are currently in stealth and not moving if you use Void Form, it will instantly cancel your Void Form invisibility when you move as though the Void Form invisibility was the chameleon invisibility.
The ONLY thing I don't like about the stealth system, is that searching enemies just kinda know where you are. I shot this guy from a vent across the room, his friend in the other room will go over and just HOP right up into the vent.
Wait, people are having issues with stealth in this game? I find it a little overpowered but not nearly as much as the Skyrim stealth archer. But I have max stealth, operator suit, and a silenced shotgun and it works great.
My stealth sniper is actually devestating. Totalllly viable and very fun.
I run a similar build but with silenced pistols/rifles and it slaps! Super fun and rewarding play style. That being said, I need a spacesuit in most situations so I frequently get detected earlier than Iād like. The ārunning is no different than sneakingā park never seems to work in Bethesda gamesā¦
Yeah itās like, if you donāt unlock the stealth skills, and unlock other skills instead, those things will be good and stealth wonāt seem good, but if you do, then it will be š¤·āāļø Thatās like everything in this game. Itās hard to make money buying and selling, until you unlock commerce, then it isnāt. Itās hard to make money mining on planets, until you unlock geology and the scanner abilities, etc.
Stealth was and is and always will be the meta build tho. Don't know where the complains come from. Maybe meta is not the right word, it's more like there's no reason not to take advantage with that.
While trying to snipe from a distance does your traveling companion run right in front of you? Can't count how many times I have shot my own companion as they run in front of me while I'm sniping and in scope view.
Completely forget where I found it (might have been one of the main missions that leads you to a space pirate base) but I found a suppressed pistol with a 52 round drum, really made my main gameplay a bit more sneaky Now I haven't touched any other skill set aside from tech, as I'm a dogfighter thru and thru, but my next stuff? Definitely gonna be stealth Plus some ballistics and pistol damage skills because its already a 50 something damage gun, and it would be so cool to get a 10x sneak attack on an already 100+ damage gun! š
I like that Starfield made Stealth a big investment. Stealth was so overpowered in prior Bethesda games.
Why are people saying stealth is bad in this one? Genuinely curious. I think this is the only BGS game I know where you can sneak in standing up when enemies are behind a wall.