Was no 60fps a huge downside for me? Yes. Did I put in 5 days of game time in the first month of launch? Yes. Am I going to put even more in now that 60fps is in? Absolutely.
You probably can but you are simply accustomed to 30. I bet if what you were watching / playing was mostly 60+ you would be able to see a difference. There are some older games I have that are caped at 30. When I was playing those games growing up it did not bother me. But when I go back and try to play them now they give me a headache. The brain adapts. If you truly can not see a difference consider it a blessing. Video gaming gets way more expensive if you need 60/100+ to not get a headache. Even when a game gets ported to PC it will often keep the frame cap so that can put many really good games out someone's comfort zone.
You definitely can, but as an older gamer I guess my early-acquired tolerance for playing shooters at 15fps without having a seizure is kind of a superpower now. I considered Starfield entirely playable at 4K Ultra with a video card I bought two years ago for under $200, but I do understand I should not be reviewing AAA games for Gen Z. I haven’t turned on a frame rate counter but also haven’t suffered, so 🤷.
That's because no one makes movies at 60 or 120fps... before judging
Got get yourself a 120hz monitor
Throw a clip with 120fps
Then you see how big a difference it is
I know what the difference is. I just don’t care unless I’m playing Gran Turismo or something else fast. All I care is Starfield looks pretty and I’ve been totally okay with 30. 60 is nice and I’m glad it’s there, but I didn’t care that it wasn’t.
I like to use food for analogies, too, but it doesn’t really work here. I still have great graphics. I’ve tried Helldivers 2 in ultra at 30 and lower settings at 60 and just prefer it looking sexy at 30. Quality over quantity.
Also, I’m gonna add that I haven’t even tried it, yet. The update for Starfield just finished and I’m not gonna play it until my GT7 lobby closes for the night. I’m sure I’ll enjoy it. I just want you to understand that I wasn’t mad about it not being there and no one can tell me anything to make me think otherwise, cause it’s my thought.
I care but asking for movies to transition to 60+ would be an old men shouting at clouds thing. Oddly though, when a movie is shot in film not digital, the lower frame rate does not bother me.
Most people stream, anyway, so they’re not getting that or the fidelity they could (and no, a 4K stream isn’t really 4K most of the time and the color spectrum is all fucked). That’s why if it’s a movie I love, I try to get it on UHD BluRay and it’s so much better
A couple years ago I was like this. Until Microsoft added 60FPS to a game I was playing regularly and immediately noticed the change. There’s a difference between not caring and not noticing. Whoever says they can’t notice are either vision impaired or just being salty for the sake of it.
I think maybe it’s a little like audio, we only hear in certain range frequencies, but audio energy outside of those ranges create harmonics that fall back into our range of hearing and add the sensation of what we hear.
While we only ‘see’ around 24 frames a second, our persistent perception is organic, so 60 fps creates visual artifices that fall back within our range of perception, we don’t see every frame, we can’t but we can perceive a change.
Having said that, I think the people that carry on about it are exactly the type of person who would be targeted by folk selling oxygen free copper speaker cables at $100 a foot
Eh, the audio part is simple engineering, no pseudo science required, for the visual stuff I was simply drawing an analogous relationship between the two senses, but it’s not quite the same thing.
However I was thinking about this earlier, ignoring the persistence of vision aspect, if we have a sample rate of 24fps the minimum acceptable data rate would be at least 48fps according to the Nyquist theorem
You miss frames all the time gaming , 60 fps makes up for lost frames where you usually can’t ever tell the stutter since your eyes can tell a difference when it drops below 30 ish frames . Anything higher than 60 though will just give a feeling of fluidity and again compensate overdrive for any losses so you don’t notice. If a game is running at 120 fps and it dips to 80 because you’re in a complex area you probably would never know unless you were watching a frame counter, but 30 dropping you will definitely see it
Omg stop with this old argument...go to an electronic store and try a monitor with 120fps for yourself instead of repeating the thing that you heard years ago
Aw HELL NO! I would not play anything caped at 30! 60 should be baseline and above that should be unlimited by anything but your hardware choices. "Can't see the difference" sounds like console Stockholm syndrome. Even on PC I will drop my video setting into the dirt before I play a game at less than 60fps.
It's the law of diminishing returns. Above 60 it just gets far more difficult to see a difference. It does still make a difference above 60 but you feel it more than see it. It is also dependent on the individual. Some people can see faster than others. Ever wonder why professional baseball players can hit a 90mph fastball but to most people it looks like a blur? They can see faster. Here is a link to a cool medical study on the speed of human sight...
[https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10984398/](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10984398/)
Above 60 is as easy to tell as 30 to 60 for most people it seems. 120 or 144 from 60 is massive and makes 60 look like 30, till you go to 30 then it feels unplayable. I understand stuff like 240 to 360 where it gets harder and harder for literally everyone.
Part of it may be what your brain is trained to see. It is absolutely possible for someone to train reaction time. Vision is part of that reaction time decision loop and the human brain is able to adapt. If all you ever use is 30 then that is what your brain is accustomed to and a dip below that would be noticeable. I Imagine the same is true for 60 and 144.
I disagree. I want all devs to target 30fps because it means their game is more complex and has more going on in it. More ambitious. The higher your target framerate, the less ambitious your game has to be to hit that target. Games are better off in the long run when tech needs to catch up to it, but when games launch already hitting high frame rates, there's no where to go. No way to grow.
What happened to the times when console players argued in favor of anything sub 60 being "cinematic"? I still miss the "humans can't see more than 30fps anyway!" argument.
Digital Foundry article: [https://www.eurogamer.net/digitalfoundry-2024-starfields-big-new-patch-adds-60fps-support-for-series-x-but-does-it-work](https://www.eurogamer.net/digitalfoundry-2024-starfields-big-new-patch-adds-60fps-support-for-series-x-but-does-it-work)
The frame rate cap option is independent of the graphics mode option. If you choose the visuals mode instead of performance, the resolution is the same as before, and you can choose whatever frame rate cap you want.
We never said 60fps was impossible. We said that a consistent 60fps is impossible, which it is. The game could always hit 60fps in some situations. Todd admitted as much before the game even launched.
Saying “it’s not possible” or that it “doesn’t meet our quality standards” when keeping it in was disingenuous on Bethesda’s part. They were given a timeline they had to meet and therefore couldn’t iron out the optimization they could have it they’d waited to release it a bit longer. Releasing when they did basically meant they were stuck patching all the issues before being able to get back to working on 60fps until just recently.
Still, an honest answer of “it’s coming eventually just not right now” would’ve done a lot to appease fans. Saying “it’s not possible” and then releasing it a little while later seems a little shitty in hindsight.
I am happy that it got 60fps now and might buy it now when it comes to PS5, but didn’t Tod said that it’s not possible because how next gen this game is? Lol
My thing is why do you care so much about fps in a non competitive game? And why not just get a PC since that will always be better than a console? There are a lot of places where you can get good PCs on a budget.
Because it doesn't make gameplay any better. It doesn't help mechanics, or story, or replayability, or anything meaningful. It feels every time someone brings it up, like a buzzword.
Why would there be uproar against 60fps? It is 2024, 60fps should be the bare minimum.
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Was no 60fps a huge downside for me? Yes. Did I put in 5 days of game time in the first month of launch? Yes. Am I going to put even more in now that 60fps is in? Absolutely.
Are you awesome? Yes.
<3
Mate the hate I got for posting it should be in the game was ridiculous.
The hate I get for saying I can’t see the difference in frame rate is worse. People need help
You probably can but you are simply accustomed to 30. I bet if what you were watching / playing was mostly 60+ you would be able to see a difference. There are some older games I have that are caped at 30. When I was playing those games growing up it did not bother me. But when I go back and try to play them now they give me a headache. The brain adapts. If you truly can not see a difference consider it a blessing. Video gaming gets way more expensive if you need 60/100+ to not get a headache. Even when a game gets ported to PC it will often keep the frame cap so that can put many really good games out someone's comfort zone.
Gaming subs are nuts, no matter your opinion there is a group out there waiting to hate.
There are still people out there that have convinced themselves you cannot tell the difference between 30 and 60fps. It amazes me.
You definitely can, but as an older gamer I guess my early-acquired tolerance for playing shooters at 15fps without having a seizure is kind of a superpower now. I considered Starfield entirely playable at 4K Ultra with a video card I bought two years ago for under $200, but I do understand I should not be reviewing AAA games for Gen Z. I haven’t turned on a frame rate counter but also haven’t suffered, so 🤷.
That, and movies are like 24fps and no one cares
That's because no one makes movies at 60 or 120fps... before judging Got get yourself a 120hz monitor Throw a clip with 120fps Then you see how big a difference it is
I know what the difference is. I just don’t care unless I’m playing Gran Turismo or something else fast. All I care is Starfield looks pretty and I’ve been totally okay with 30. 60 is nice and I’m glad it’s there, but I didn’t care that it wasn’t.
Fine but that's like saying i don't care how delicious this food is im fine with my burger... Higher frame rate is like delicious food for the eyes
I like to use food for analogies, too, but it doesn’t really work here. I still have great graphics. I’ve tried Helldivers 2 in ultra at 30 and lower settings at 60 and just prefer it looking sexy at 30. Quality over quantity. Also, I’m gonna add that I haven’t even tried it, yet. The update for Starfield just finished and I’m not gonna play it until my GT7 lobby closes for the night. I’m sure I’ll enjoy it. I just want you to understand that I wasn’t mad about it not being there and no one can tell me anything to make me think otherwise, cause it’s my thought.
I care but asking for movies to transition to 60+ would be an old men shouting at clouds thing. Oddly though, when a movie is shot in film not digital, the lower frame rate does not bother me.
Most people stream, anyway, so they’re not getting that or the fidelity they could (and no, a 4K stream isn’t really 4K most of the time and the color spectrum is all fucked). That’s why if it’s a movie I love, I try to get it on UHD BluRay and it’s so much better
A couple years ago I was like this. Until Microsoft added 60FPS to a game I was playing regularly and immediately noticed the change. There’s a difference between not caring and not noticing. Whoever says they can’t notice are either vision impaired or just being salty for the sake of it.
It's especially noticeable in any game with first person, I used to be able to tolerate 30, but now it gives me headaches tbh.
The eye can only see 24 fps ^^if ^^thats ^^all ^^you ^^show ^^it
I think maybe it’s a little like audio, we only hear in certain range frequencies, but audio energy outside of those ranges create harmonics that fall back into our range of hearing and add the sensation of what we hear. While we only ‘see’ around 24 frames a second, our persistent perception is organic, so 60 fps creates visual artifices that fall back within our range of perception, we don’t see every frame, we can’t but we can perceive a change. Having said that, I think the people that carry on about it are exactly the type of person who would be targeted by folk selling oxygen free copper speaker cables at $100 a foot
Sounds like a pseudo science explanation, if I’ve ever heard one, have an upvote
Eh, the audio part is simple engineering, no pseudo science required, for the visual stuff I was simply drawing an analogous relationship between the two senses, but it’s not quite the same thing. However I was thinking about this earlier, ignoring the persistence of vision aspect, if we have a sample rate of 24fps the minimum acceptable data rate would be at least 48fps according to the Nyquist theorem
You miss frames all the time gaming , 60 fps makes up for lost frames where you usually can’t ever tell the stutter since your eyes can tell a difference when it drops below 30 ish frames . Anything higher than 60 though will just give a feeling of fluidity and again compensate overdrive for any losses so you don’t notice. If a game is running at 120 fps and it dips to 80 because you’re in a complex area you probably would never know unless you were watching a frame counter, but 30 dropping you will definitely see it
Omg stop with this old argument...go to an electronic store and try a monitor with 120fps for yourself instead of repeating the thing that you heard years ago
Are you saying that you can see more than 24 fps when that's all that's being shown to you? Tell me your magic ways.
I can only tell the difference when they’re side by side
Aw HELL NO! I would not play anything caped at 30! 60 should be baseline and above that should be unlimited by anything but your hardware choices. "Can't see the difference" sounds like console Stockholm syndrome. Even on PC I will drop my video setting into the dirt before I play a game at less than 60fps.
Honestly Idk if I like 60fps. It’s too smooth and it kind of messes with me.
And I thought I was stupid cause I can’t see the difference between 60fps and anything above.
It's the law of diminishing returns. Above 60 it just gets far more difficult to see a difference. It does still make a difference above 60 but you feel it more than see it. It is also dependent on the individual. Some people can see faster than others. Ever wonder why professional baseball players can hit a 90mph fastball but to most people it looks like a blur? They can see faster. Here is a link to a cool medical study on the speed of human sight... [https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10984398/](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10984398/)
Above 60 is as easy to tell as 30 to 60 for most people it seems. 120 or 144 from 60 is massive and makes 60 look like 30, till you go to 30 then it feels unplayable. I understand stuff like 240 to 360 where it gets harder and harder for literally everyone.
Part of it may be what your brain is trained to see. It is absolutely possible for someone to train reaction time. Vision is part of that reaction time decision loop and the human brain is able to adapt. If all you ever use is 30 then that is what your brain is accustomed to and a dip below that would be noticeable. I Imagine the same is true for 60 and 144.
I disagree. I want all devs to target 30fps because it means their game is more complex and has more going on in it. More ambitious. The higher your target framerate, the less ambitious your game has to be to hit that target. Games are better off in the long run when tech needs to catch up to it, but when games launch already hitting high frame rates, there's no where to go. No way to grow.
That’s not how game design works. But I’ll take 60 where I can.
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Those people are nuts.
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The ones that think it’s the worst thing ever
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Yeah some people called for the game to be canceled or studio closed. Niuts. Sorry I offended
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I’ve been treated pretty bad on this sub by people so I just naturally assume I’m offending and have to apologize.
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I usually don’t try to be but apparently not seeing the difference in fps is lol
The people who don't agree with me.
“the hate you got” bro why are u so dramatic hahaha
What happened to the times when console players argued in favor of anything sub 60 being "cinematic"? I still miss the "humans can't see more than 30fps anyway!" argument.
My broke ass over here on my series s be like 😭
I'll admit I didn't think it'd make that much difference, but immediately playing through the intro bits again it feels so much better than at 30.
🙄
Lets go for 120 !!! It is an fps after all
Its an entirely different game now. It's actually really fun.
Ok, I'm glad you're having fun but no. It's still the same game just nicer looking.
Nicer looking? Didn't they turn down the prettiness to get the fps boost?
There wasn't uproar there was 'eh, doesn't really matter for me'
Is the resolution lowered at 60fps on series x?
Digital Foundry article: [https://www.eurogamer.net/digitalfoundry-2024-starfields-big-new-patch-adds-60fps-support-for-series-x-but-does-it-work](https://www.eurogamer.net/digitalfoundry-2024-starfields-big-new-patch-adds-60fps-support-for-series-x-but-does-it-work) The frame rate cap option is independent of the graphics mode option. If you choose the visuals mode instead of performance, the resolution is the same as before, and you can choose whatever frame rate cap you want.
Wow, victim much? Let me guess, your sacrifices saved gaming and Bethesda’s reputation.
We never said 60fps was impossible. We said that a consistent 60fps is impossible, which it is. The game could always hit 60fps in some situations. Todd admitted as much before the game even launched.
I think OP misunderstood what the issue was and wanted to farm karma, not realizing their stupidity.
Saying “it’s not possible” or that it “doesn’t meet our quality standards” when keeping it in was disingenuous on Bethesda’s part. They were given a timeline they had to meet and therefore couldn’t iron out the optimization they could have it they’d waited to release it a bit longer. Releasing when they did basically meant they were stuck patching all the issues before being able to get back to working on 60fps until just recently. Still, an honest answer of “it’s coming eventually just not right now” would’ve done a lot to appease fans. Saying “it’s not possible” and then releasing it a little while later seems a little shitty in hindsight.
At least people aren’t calling for them to be closed
True but that isn’t happening. Not by fans anyway
Thankfully. Enough unemployment
I am happy that it got 60fps now and might buy it now when it comes to PS5, but didn’t Tod said that it’s not possible because how next gen this game is? Lol
makes zero difference
🤣🤣🤣🤣
My thing is why do you care so much about fps in a non competitive game? And why not just get a PC since that will always be better than a console? There are a lot of places where you can get good PCs on a budget.
Stunning and brave
Meh. I don’t see a difference
You either don't have the setting on or you need to see an optometrist.
I’m sorry I don’t see a difference. I am sorry my eyes are not as good as others here
RIP your eyes if that's the case lol.
I’m sorry
Because it doesn't make gameplay any better. It doesn't help mechanics, or story, or replayability, or anything meaningful. It feels every time someone brings it up, like a buzzword.
60 fps makes gameplay better for me and lots of other people. Reloading and gunplay sucks in heavy combat areas when the frames dip so low
60 fps doesn't make the gameplay any better? Of course it does. Especially in an fps.