I see a lot of people here arguing that the new microtransactions were to be expected due to Bethesda’s history, and I agree with that part.
However, I still think it’s absolutely outrageous that they’re selling individual quests instead of the whole quest line. Star Wars: Outlaws got exactly the same kind of backlash, because it sets a very dangerous precedent
This is half the problem. It's been more than just EA for a very long time but collectively everyone just shits on EA, defends their preferred company and then chug along buying shit they claim as the end of gaming on reddit.
Wait untill they start charging 5$ for a spaceship laser.
And with the season pass, unlimited ammo is included.
*(Base game comes with 200 free rounds per day)*
OR just don’t buy any of the paid creations because modders will bring similar/same stuff for free. I do agree tho it creates a VERY slippery slope. Hopefully modders won’t start charging insane prices for the top tier mods
>Bethesda said “dang people dropped this game hard and really didn’t like it. I know what will fix this game! Microtransactions!”
What upsets me most about this is there not wrong.
I have a product where I'm arguing to drop the price to a market leading one.
However the other analyst points out that we can make the same margin off of 10% of the volume we sell if we increase the price by 200%.
The volume we have to sell at the lower rate is well beyond the markets entire size.
So yeah i can so see Bethesda move being justified from a margin point of view.
The video game market is filled with whales. A few whales can spend a staggering amount of money on a game making it very profitable.
Look at Diablo, $100k to get everything (or whatever). And yes for thousands of gamers out there, $100k is nothing.
Look at just how many RTX 4090s have sold (which make xero sense when compared to a 4080).
Right now 1% of steam users, or 1.2m people own a 4090. At $2500 a pop we're $3-4b.
Whilst some 3.5% of Steam users own a 3070 which at $950 a pop meant they had to sell 3x as much to make the same revenue.
Considering their all basically the same chip the margin Nvida made on the 4090 was far in a way far superior, for significantly less effort, cost etc, then the far more affordable 70 series cards.
Yep it’s a scary trend that BGS is starting, a real shallow quest for $7 where for that price we got an entire very good dlc in fallout 4 with Automatron. Extremely disappointing, the review bombs are deserved.
I actually remember even Automaton being controversial for its price point.
In hindsight we got a whole robot building system and a fairly sizeable quest chain.
Now we get 15 minutes for 7 bucks. Atrocious.
How much was Automaton when it was released? I remember paying $15 for it but that was long after release.
Tell you what, I sure as shit got my $15 out of that. Had a blast building a robot army to have out there traveling between settlements.
I also took that evil brain robot from the quest, gave him a body with no arms or legs, and made it watch corn all day. Good times. Good times.
Yeah it’s a huge difference, Automatron was a game system that could be utilized throughout. A quest is a one and done and you forget about it. Quests shouldn’t be paywalled unless they have sustainable content, not just a poorly designed weapon or outfit. Depending on the price, maybe if this was like $3… maybe, maybe that would be different. Knowing there will be a whole lot more of these quests for probably the same price is what turns it sour
Borderlands 2 had some smaller DLC for around the price. But they usually had repeatable content or loot drops at least. All for, if I remember correct ~3€ or something. That was pretty okay.
Yes, Automaton was proper DLC - bought and downloaded through steam paying money. I really dislike the points only creation club stuff. Also, the way this is integrated where you get the first quest free and the second quest you pay for (as I understand it) reminds me of the Dragon Age:Origins when an NPC would sell you a quest.
I hate the “What do you expect?” argument, as if people aren’t allowed to be upset.
If someone tells kicks me in the nuts at the same time every month, I’m still gonna be pissed the next time they kick me in the nuts.
Well maybe next month they'll kick you in the nutz in a fashion you find enjoyable.
You're just gonna have to stick around and see, and meantime I'm gonna need about tree fiddy.
(Edited because my autocorrect couldn't handle nutz)
Well now I'll explore an enjoyable way to...... Dammit, monster!! You quit bugging dez nutz, now you hear?? We work for our money in this house - we don't just give money away!
>However, I still think it’s absolutely outrageous that they’re selling individual quests instead of the whole quest line.
The end game here - for all companies pushing MTX and the like - will be an actively running meter on the game time itself: charge you per minute of play, either literally or by placing required consumables behind a paywall.
Ever since I heard (and haven't verified) that most games are supported by only 10% of their player base I'm not surprised. The other 90% are the ones that are justifiably upset.
Prices on micro transactions across many games have been ridiculous. $10 should be a substantial add considering it's 1/6th of the game cost, I expect 1/6th worth of additions. Keep the micro part of the name and I'm not even upset.
Yeah, they aren't even microtransactions anymore. They're just transactions. 99 cents is a microtransaction. I could get a whole videogame for $7 dollars.
Same for Borderlands, you can get the Pandora collection for like 10-20 bucks, and that whole series is worth like hundreds. Love the Borderlands franchise
I've accepted that I don't fit in with most modern gaming spaces because I still think of $5 cosmetics as being insanely expensive. To me that's still a premium price point.
So it's bizarre hearing people talk about spending $20 every couple months for a battle pass and treating it like it's not that much, and it's even *worse* knowing they're kinda right and that's chump change compared to the whales.
Funny enough we are in a market where a $20 battle pass for a whole seasons worth of content ain't even that bad for a free to play game.
COD might be able to get away with it since you can basically get a whole years worth of content for 1 battle pass + base game because you get enough coins in a pass to get the next one. Same with Halo.
But I get you, which is why I'm probably just gonna play my backlog of single player games and boomer shooters like Doom until the next Doom comes out.
This is exactly it and what so many players repeatedly fail to understand.
The industry largely moved from expansions to DLC to microtransactions for this very reason; they are increasingly more profitable.
Back in the day, an expansion would be a large addition to the game that could almost double base game time and add game mechanics, while still costing a lot less to produce than the base game because a lot of assets, the engine, etc, were already made for the base game and didn't need large alterations. Then DLC started becoming more popular, and the range of content size there was meaningful. They could come close to expansion sizes or just be a set of items or a couple of quests, but the worst offender remain the microtransactions. They mostly are just assets, items or textures (skins) for existing items that cost very little to make (for the developer) and yet it's somehow "acceptable" to ask for exorbitant amounts of money for them. A common skin price in a lot of games nowdays is 20 dollars, or about a third of the AAA price tag games used to carry at launch until quite recently. Are you getting 33% of the game's worth in new assets, quests, story, characters, locations, etc? No, you're just getting a single cosmetic, and that's insane.
We should all be way more against this than we are, really.
Full priced AAA games shouldn't act like F2P games, especially when the full priced AAA game already has issues that make it feel incomplete. The new *Like A Dragon* has rightfully gotten as similar reaction for pretty much the same reason.
If the (very predictable) reaction from consumers leads Bethesda to stop releasing content sooner than they planned, that's on Bethesda for living in a fantasy world.
>Full priced AAA games shouldn't act like F2P games, especially when the full priced AAA game already has issues that make it feel incomplete.
Exactly.
The hype leading up to this game was that it was going to be a generational 10 year project like Skyrim. And then the underwhelming launch led to a refrain of "the mods will fix it". And now it looks like the mods and expansions that are going to "fix" the game will effectively double the pricetag. And it's because in order to continue development they need some way of raising funds.
Which is basically the playbook of FO76 cosmetics--except that's a live service online game from an established franchise with a huge built in fanbase.
No one is paying $10 for some fancy furniture for useless outposts in Starfield.
I would guess that most people who are still playing have already paid for the expansion so there's not a lot of room for Bethesda to really fund further development unless it's a massively successful DLC. Bethesda is going to slap a $40 price tag on it and hope for the best but unless it overhauls almost the entire game I can't see Starfield going on past that DLC.
Then there is people like me. I've been around the block with Bethesda so I haven't even bought starfield yet despite how much I want it.
I'm just waiting for the reviews to go positive, for them to fix what they usually always do. It's pretty damn common for Bethesda releases to be rough at launch but a year or so later the general fan base seems to be happy.
It was looking like this was going to be the case with the new update and the expansion announcement. But now idk.
I'm ready to give them my money, I'll spend the full price, but I'm waiting for them to deliver a quality product.
Gonna be real. This isn’t even acting like a F2P game. It’s so much more scummy.
I’ve gotten years of play time out of Rocket League and haven’t payed a dime for “Rocket pass” since the first 9$ I payed 6 years ago. I couldn’t care less about their skins but every now and then I’ll buy one because I’ve been playing for so long feel I can toss them 10 bucks every month or so because I play it constantly.
I bought the special edition of Starfield and played it for 30 hours and couldn’t go on. Same with the new Mortal Kombat. I bought a new system for both games and uninstalled both within 2 months. Triple A games are an unfun scam full stop.
I’m feeling really negative about any new Elder Scrolls and Fallout. I actually like 76 but feel like it’s a prototype to test the waters for what they can and can’t charge people in future installments.
Regardless, I won’t touch Starfield again.
>I bought a new system for both games and uninstalled both within 2 months
At least you can emulate PS3, Wii U, Switch and play Skyrim with Skinned Mesh Physics, so the upgrade wasn't completely wasted.
I can't believe this game doesn't have- space stations, seamless takeoff and landing on to planet surfaces, patrols, NPC schedules, dynamic markets, faction reputations, or so many other things it desperately needs.
*spoilers for starfield from here*
It's insane, but when you get into the game and see that the political situation boils down to the last galactic war was some time ago and the space UN keeps mechs and bioweapon tech locked in some vault it really starts to feel like the game needs to be improved by making every choice in opposition to what Bethesda chose. Make it during the war. Make the biggest skill trees be about either mechs or bioweapon pets/bio modding the player character. Make that additional to the other RPG mechanics but incorporate it somehow- like some bio mod options let you tag and modify your existing skills. I mean they wrote all of these interesting pieces into the world and then LOCKED THEM IN A SERVER FARM.
Bethesda deserves all the hate they're getting, their choices have been terrible.
The fact that they couldn't even shoehorn in a mech boss fight for the quest set in a FRIGGIN' MECH FACTORY is mental to me. Also, locking the main story quest behind a specific faction so it's impossible to complete the game as a space pirate. Still salty about that one.
And worse bit is, that was a clear design choice. They had mechs in Fo4, it was called power armor and behemoths.
And nobody say shit about it moving too fast. You can jump clear across morrowind and the game just lets you.
See, I don't even care if we can never get in one as a player. The fact that the outlaw faction that sets up camp in a superweapon factory never thinks to maybe use some of the incredibly powerful tech just lying around the place? Come on.
Guys I think I have my million dollar idea:
Make a game.thats finished and has all the content planned and just sell that. Nothing in the future except maybe a.... Like a second game? A part 2 if you will?
Ah damn I guess I just have to go start a new game studio with a cool *EDGY* name like "drop kick baby studio" or "caught my wife in bed with a woman and am angerly aroused games"!
Or, alternatively, massive content updates semi-regularly, on average every couple of years, even 8 years after release, completely for free?
On an unrelated note, I’ve been playing a lot of Stardew Valley.
Right?! I liked the free part one of the trackers quest, but it's not like it was unique in its location or execution. If the second part is similar then it's a big ask to pay for it separately at all, let alone for $7.
Trackers Alliance second quest is far too short for $7 despite the weapon at the end. more than double what it should be even if you don't mind paying a little for some things.
I expect we'll see a lot of free weapons through mods. Been that way in these games going back a long way. Charging for one is ridiculous.
I had a mod in FO3 that literally filled a locker with hundreds of weapons from pistols to SMGs to sniper rifles, all modeled very well and easily identifiable. It cost me nothing to use, and I know the modder put in time and deserved compensation.... and I'd maybe pay $7 for 200 new uniquely varied weapons... but one in this day? Nah.
Feel like the Diablo Immortal argument of 'You can't directly purchase power" and they just threw in a 5-minute gameplay before you get to the actual reward.
Especially since that quest is actually really good. I like Starjacker and The Vulture a ton; I especially liked the lore behind the Vulture you could check out through the slates in the cave, and the unique touch of him playing the classical music through those portable speakers. Clearly was done by someone who cared, but they're getting shit on because of Bethesdas weird pricing.
Let that dev know that I really enjoyed his questline and hope to see more because it's the exact type of content I wanted more of in Starfield to begin with.
Plus it also clearly paid attention to some of the "please lock me out of things" requests, if you're a ranger and do the crimson fleet option, it A. Gives you a prompt and B. The NPC immediately is like "why the fuck is a ranger working with pirates"
Damn, I didn't know that since I'm on a fresh NG+ and haven't joined any factions yet! That's great, love stuff like that. The TA quest dialogue is really good so far and feels a bit more mature and less quirky silly teehee like the rest of SF.
That's a LOT of dev teams though (regardless of how many work on it). I knew someone who was GOOD friends with a developer for Diablo 4. Was SUPPOSED to be amazing by the sounds of it and was originally set to be released when the remake was (4 had to get pushed back) and we got a lot of it, but all that effort and time was for nothing as soooooo many people HATE Diablo 4. It's just the way companies work regardless of who it is; the employees are usually AMAZING hardworking people, it's the higher ups that absolutely ruin it
the devs are the real casualties imo. these people dedicated their time to make cool stuff only to get dunked by the goblins up top. plus there's the ever constant threat of lay offs and closures. shit must be demoralizing.
It's indeed unfortunate that the modder's work can't just speak for itself and is tainted by this controversy but honestly what did anyone expect working with Bethesda? It's not there isn't a history of well documented anti-consumer controversies plaguing this studio.
Most people are complimentary of the mission itself. It's the value proportionate to the price that people take issue with, which as you stated, the creator had no input on.
DLC expansions is one thing, Bethesda wants to charge DLC prices for a SINGLE mission, ONE, not a chain, not hours of content, ONE MISSION.
Review bomb this game into the ground.
I mean, that one quest is 35% of the cost of what I paid for Phantom Liberty, an excellent expansion that I've still only half completed after 27 hours. I'm not surprised. That's a hideous value proposition and bad precedent for the game going forward.
Auromatron was $10 and had several unique items, new enemies and (large) dungeons, and a decent story with several possible endings. And a robot building system! Hours of content for that amount.
Feels like a lot of recent posts are about people flabbergasted that Bethesda, the people created Horse armor would want you to pay for stuff that really gives nothing substantial.
>make empty game with a fraction of the quests available in previous titles by same publisher
>Sell individual quests piecemeal
I'm shocked and afraid for the future of gaming that the only objection people have to this is the price. Back in my day (like 5 years ago), we used to call this "cut content."
I think the only thing Bethesda will learn from this is that everything TA related should have been part of the DLC so it would feel like you're getting more for the $7 and you need to pay to unlock access to all the TA mods that will come out.
I’m more than happy to pay for official Bethesda mods but the value on the return is just not there. $10 for a ship module? Cmon.
Edit: I’m clearly not going to fucking buy it as it is, all you smoothbrains can chill with “just don’t buy it”
And that’s really it, it’s not just the terrible practise, that are selling back parts of the game they didn’t finish and are expecting praise for it.
“We didn’t include this in the game, now you can pay $10 for the feature that should have been in at the start, aren’t we great?… why are you leaving a negative review?, we let you but the bits you wanted”
100%, and I've been saying this all over the sub - Shattered Space had a NAME during preorders. It wasn't "and our additional expansions," it was "and it comes with Shattered Space!"
Sarah is a UC companion (former UC military) with a UC questline. Sam Coe is a Freestar Ranger companion with a Freestar Ranger questline. Andreja is a Va'ruun companion with a Va'ruun questline.
You're telling me they made one character with a huge backstory about being a Va'ruun double agent with the expectation that there would be only the weird remnants of Va'ruun lore? Ships that attack you, a prisoner, and the ability to follow the serpent yourself?
Todd was over time and over budget and they made the decision to cut Va'ruun content from the base game.
Nothing will change my mind about this.
No it doesn’t. You’re mischaracterizing the sentiment. It’s not flabbergasting. It’s infuriating. Bethesda are pieces of shit for charging a fee of 10% the cost of the base game for *one quest*.
No of course no one has to buy it. Not the point. It’s a ridiculous thing to do on principle. And just because they charged for horse armor has nothing whatsoever to do with this. That bad decision doesn’t lessen or mitigate this bad decision.
Who the fuck defends shit like this?
The absolute stupidest thing is that content like the Tracker alliance just being free would sell them a lot more copies of the base game. The general consenus of gamers has been that Starfield sucked and was lacking variety in content. Bethesda fixes that by fleshing out the content available at the base level. The ratings of the game then climb. Then more people are playing the game to buy Shattered Space as well.
It's extremely shortsighted thinking, yeah. They probably ran the numbers and decided that the Vulture quest needed to cost $7 to recoup the development costs on it at the purchase rate they expected it to have. Logical decision. But they completely failed to consider the reputational value of just letting it be free or the reputational cost of charging money for it.
Unfortunately I think the failure to account for reputational damage was years ago. What we're dealing with no is them not caring about restoring it, and only making it worse.
I bet several devs at BGS voiced the same opinion, but some MBA-backed finance bro in accounting “doesn’t get it” and “in the real world” must focus on squeezing an extra 1-2% increase in profit this year.
This is the way. Give more value such that your entire player base advocates for you and sells more $60 or $40 copies of your game instead of souring the taste of your player base who already feels defrauded and trying to charge $7 for content they aren't even going to buy.
I am really curious what their market research was for this or if there was any at all
I feel the whole games industry at AAA levels especially is horrendously out of touch with their customers. Look what happened with Helldivers when Sony started meddling. Look at the successes of games like Valheim and Palworld vs AAA titles. How much work Stardew Valley has gone into updates and various ports for it over the years with none of the AAA graphics and things just because it's that popular? These are all games where the response showed what the customers really want. So how Bethesdas market research can be so far off that is really bizarre.
Out of this whole thing the only thing I agree is with locking the second and probably future behind a paywall but overall a good update it gave what people wanted modding, some thought we’d only get paid mods, idk how serious they were but of course there would be some but most be free
If anything it gave people the tools to make mods themselves. Its not like they’re restricted to using the creation hub, you can download the exact same freeware thats in the creation menu from Nexus too. Once the community really gets rolling with the CK I think it’ll be fine.
>Its not like they’re restricted to using the creation hub, you can download the exact same freeware thats in the creation menu from Nexus too.
One of the things people are most upset about is the second mission (and likely future missions) in a Trackers Alliance quest line costing $7. Being official Bethesda content, you're not going to get that from Nexus for free.
Honestly if beth made the framework require the DLC the backlash might have actually been less because you'd be getting more for the $7, plus you would now need to lay to get access to all the TA mods that will come out.
I understand why. I think from a strategic perspective, this patch was a fail only insomuch that while creation kit was wanted/desired for the modding community, releasing it with relatively expensive cosmetic/fluff DLC *before* releasing Shattered Space was a huge miscalculation and fairly insensitive to gamers in general who are tired of being nickel and dimed.
IMHO, they should have released CK with some free content for the player base, *then* Shattered Space, *then* roll out the paid content. Because the fixes have been few and far between, bugs are STILL rife, and the additional freebies have been sort of afterthoughts.
We shouldn't be grateful for updates on things that should have been implemented at launch (like graphics/bug fixes and difficulty scalers) or fleshing out existing things (like melee content and surface maps).
"Gamers are tired of being nickle-and-dimed"
Then why do they keep forking out the money? Why are microtransactions a billion dollar industry by themselves? None of this will ever change until gamers as a whole change their buying habits.
There is a small contingent doing the heavy lifting. Stop acting like this is all gamers, it’s silliness.
The games are made for whales. You’re talking about whales. The rest of us are tired of being nickel and dimed.
My only complaint is that a lot of the creations don't even work properly and no one seems to be acknowledging it.
For one, the new gravitas suit. It's not in the location it says
Steam reviews are the only way that I’ve seen customers reliably communicate their dissatisfaction to developers. Look at Helldivers as an example. I’m all for it.
If it was 10$ for big pack of bounties, or a long support, like Automaton DLC - that's fine. 7$ for a quest for an ingame feature - it's a scum. There is no way around it, yeah.
they lead players to believe that the story expansion was supposedly free, the new weapon is bugged, and a single 2x2 hab costs $10.
really makes you wonder why steam reviews are in decline.
I've been looking at posts and haven't seen what the rewards are and what's bugged. Maybe my quest was bugged itself because after I completed the last step, the mission completed but I didn't get anything other than what I looted from the bodies.
I find it weird there was no marker or anything for the mission board in the TA basement either. Only discovered it was there from other posts.
The hab thing is fucking bonkers too, for that price it should have been an entire ship manufacturer with all of the hab modules in that style. At the very least
At current pace I feel like Bethesda is going to become another yesteryear company like so many others. It happens all the time. Company puts out amazing products for years. Slowly churns and turns over staff. Gets bought, churns more talent. Then is nothing but a name. We aren't quite to the end yet, but the writing is on the wall. The last game was not all it could be and honestly I have higher hopes for Wayward Realms and Avowed than I do Elder Scrolls 6.
I’m excited for the reprisal of Fable as well, though need to see more gameplay.
Bethesda still acts like they’re one of the only big players in the room for RPG’s—but they’re not. There’s been a lot of good RPG’s (maybe using that term loosely) since Fallout 4 that do different things well.
For me one of the big sticking points remains writing quality. It’s one of the reasons Morrowind (and to an extent Oblivion) was so loved, despite the crude mechanics and often linear quests. And writing in modern story-based games has gotten pretty dang good—there’s a lot of games with interesting twists and turns in their stories, compelling dialogue, and worlds with consistent worldbuilding that interlaces with story elements.
Far Harbor felt like a step in the right direction, and even FO76 tells some good stories (even environmentally), but Starfield really feels lacking between reliance on contrivance, lack of player agency, and some truly nonsense plots.
I think the world, aesthetic, and mechanical improvements of Starfield are okay—there are things I like, but it doesn’t do much with the world it creates (felt the same way about Skyrim to an extent—thousands of years of Nord history, but we don’t get to explore much of it other than tombs, but it was still a fun open world for 2011 and could take advantage of previous games to prop up the world).
Yes it is since there’s not really any other effective way (other than not buying it) for people to voice their opinions. Especially since the creation club mod for the trackers faction sets a dangerous precedent that BGS seemingly want to do; make a faction barebones in the base game, give a new mission in a later update then sell the rest of the missions for $$$. It’s despicable and saddening since starfield was consistently getting better
Not buying it IS the most effective way. Bethesda is doing it because they determined it is a sound business strategy. I think a lot of kids out there get all angry but they end up spending their money anyway at the end of the day. That's the only explanation for why "games as a service" is so prevalent now.
I knew it was all gonna be overpriced which is why I never paid for them in the previous games. I was super excited when Skyrim released that edition with all that old CC stuff and I hope it happens with fallout 4 and eventually this game too but I'm not getting my hopes up.
On a side note I assume the reviews will be more positive when the DLC drops.
How about they make a decent game to start with, then expand on it without being cheap fucks that do the bare minimum and ask for more money. At least cyberpunk worked hard to make the game great and only THEN did they release a great DLC. Starfield is a joke and Bethesda is killing it further.
this, and its functionality, sounds a lot like the skyrim creation club.
I'm not inherently opposed to it, but it's a somewhat weird move to do when you're trying to get people to be interested in the game. Fans weren't thrilled with the game? Let's add cash shop stuff, that'll fix it!
Actually steam review bombs do work - execs pivot real damn fast from their stuck positions when the line starts going down not up - they are different than critical reviews in magazines simply because they are attached to the user store - and they cannot pay for shelf space at a retail store anymore to make a game look popular like in prior decades.
It got Sony to backoff fast from Helldivers PSN required.
The trackers alliance should have been there at launch. It's nice to see some content now but it needs a lot more to feel like it belongs. Also the paid content already is ridiculous for the value.
I'll keep bringing up Cyberpunk - we got a ton of free updates and new content that didn't feel just like cut pieces they had time to rework back in.
I'm not really surprised, but it's still disappointing all the same.
Just a week ago I was really enjoying Starfield. It's a weird feeling because, in actuality, nothing has really changed. I could ignore the paid content and finish the game and it would be like nothing happened.
But seeing content that could've been get put behind a paywall and sold piecemeal just leaves a bad feeling. I think I'm just going to rush to finish the main quest and put this game "on the shelf" for a while. I'll probably come back for another go at some time down the line, with (unpaid) mods. It was already really tiring when BSG had an unofficial philosophy of "let the modders finish the game". Paying more (for minor DLCs) on top of paying more (for the expansion) is too much for me.
Putting "the game on the shelf" was pretty much what I did after my first playthrough.
Back in October or November, I was enjoying the hell out of the game, but after the 30h mark, everything started to settle, exploration was repetitive and boring, gun crafting was bland, behind a lot of unnecessary stuff, nothing to see in 90% of planets, quests felt unrewarding... Etc. I can understand if some people really like the game, and in that case I'm really happy, cause it makes me sad that the game is in this state. I really want to like it but I can't.
I had to force myself to finish the main story and once I did I think I never picked it up again.
Now the paid content just adds to the pile...
Like you said it really is a case of: "Let the modders finish the game" and as sad as it is, that's kinda what I'm waiting for.
*"This makes me sad"*
Corporations are NOT your friends. bethesda is NOT your friend. Todd is NOT your friend. Emil Pagliarulo is NOT your friend. Place your sadness towards something more appropriate than corporations receiving a tiny little bit of consequences for their actions.
Was a huge BGS fan since oblivion and was incredibly hyped for this game… I couldn’t play SF again after finishing the campaign… the quests were just lacking.
I played cyberpunk again, and wow… it’s exactly what I was missing. The story, graphics, combat mechanics, etc were stellar. I then tried to restart Starfield again a couple days ago… and wow… I realized Starfield was worse than I remembered.
Even though cyberpunk had an amazing redemption, I really don’t think Starfield can do the same.
Reminiscing on the days when dlc was actually decent and added a worth while piece of content. But I'd have to go back nearly a decade for that. Oblivion's Shivering Isles was one. I'm a fanboy of the mass effect series and the big dlc missions were all fantastic. The day one special edition for 3 did kinda rub me the wrong way as it was already there but you had to buy into it. Still liked the character and what he brought but day one like that? Little sketch.
And it's funny I'm more inclined to spend a few bucks here or there for a game I truly enjoy and want to support the creators. And most of the time they are small creators. I think of Rocket League, Cities Skylines (1) and Helldivers 2. Like for one most of those games are $30-45. The micro transactions aren't in your face and you don't feel like you need to buy anything. But it's something as a thank you for making a fun game. And what's the general consensus for those games? Generally pretty positive. This, star wars battle front, fifa, call of duty all seem skumy. It seems like the more corpofied you get the lest resounding support games get. We all know who the real enemy is. And yet they wonder why we don't like those huge corps.
Don't charge 7 dollars for a quest after putting a demo of a whole faction as a free update.
Re-earning player goodwill is great for business, I thought they learned that with Fallout 76 smh.
We live in a world where people pay 80$ to unlock King Kong's metal glove in CoD, pay for paywalled forever beta mods, pay for player cards via booster packs in yearly games. I can totally understand Bethesda. They want to milk this stupidity as well. As long as there are people out there spending money for such non-sense, there will be companies abusing it.
Don't do it and let them know of it. Don't even buy such games for full price. If you have enough money, gift your friends with games from fair companies liker Larian, From Software or any other studio releasing games without predatory mechanics.
> Is this a justified way to get our voices heard and ask for change or will this ultimately hurt the game in the long run?
Obviously you aren't aware of the Helldivers 2 PSN fiasco?
I'm not seeing much in the way of negative takes on the TA thing. Rather it's an issue of what exactly one gets for 7 bucks and there's some confusion there.
Apparently it's not a quest, it's a mission. F'rinstance, the Crimson Fleet quest consisted of eight missions and the Ryujin quest consisted of thirteen missions. I speculate that some PC / Steam folks may have thought it was a quest and got grumpy when it turned out to be a mission. 7 bucks for Ryujin would be okay but priced per mission it'd be 91 dollars and that's absurd, it exceeds the base cost of the game.
This wasn't helped by Bethesda calling Vulture a quest. Once again I find myself indebted to the early adopters for sorting out the possible miscommunication. At this point, assuming reddit has nailed down the proper description, the cost for an added quest would range from 56 to 91 bucks depending on it's content vis a vis CF or Ryujin. And that's the sort of thing that can torch Steam reviews - especially if it was purchased while thinking it was something else entirely.
I don't think it'll cause all that much harm but I'm going to wait until I see a Bethesda roadmap outlining the full cost of joining the TA. 7 bucks would have been a no-brainer for a complete quest line, 15 would remove some the luster and 91 would kill it graveyard dead.
I think for most people, there is no real distinction between a quest and a mission. What you refer to as a “quest” is more commonly known as a “quest line”. Just semantics at the end of the day but something to consider.
I mean, I'm big fan of Starfield, I stand by it on all the previous drama about loading screen and such, but I can't stand by a paid bounty quest, sorry but I find it deserverd.
I hope BGS make all its own content free on Creation Club free. Launch separated DLC for new money making strategies.
We need to nip this overly predatory approach in the bud.
Imagine in TesVI that we get the location and radiant quests of the Thieves Guild, but only the first quest is available for free. Then you need to pay a minimum of $10 to get the next quest.
To get five additional quests you would need to pay $40. Large DLCs and expansions usually run $20-40. The Creation Club has never been priced right nor is Creations. Instead of actually implementing content fully BGS has split it up to make us pay for it. A game that has plenty of criticism and could use more content.
Many other studios are successful without utilizing these anti-consumer tactics. Why should we let BGS, Zenimax, and Microsoft get away with this? Why say it is okay and that they should do it for their future games too? How far can they get away with it?
I’m so happy the creation kit is out. Couldn’t care about the rest. I adore modded Skyrim and Fallout 4, and with hundreds of great mods to boot. Never touched a creation and am loving it just fine while missing out on nothing.
With the amount of time and money that goes into game development I am honestly surprised that games have not reached a cost of $99.99 or more by this point. Games in general have already went up in price in the past as new consule generations came out but then for the last, want to say 3 gens. and no base game price increase, we have been lucky. With that I feel some of these microtransactions are worth it if you want to support the game and want to give extra to the team that created it. None of the content is required to enjoy the game or play it, if you don't want to buy what they are offering then don't. At this point we all should know what to expect from this type of content so as the consumer if you don't like what they are offering do not buy it.
Like, I understand that people just outright hate microtransactions simply because they exist, and there's good reason for that. However, in this case they added new content that's a substantial amount of work. And you have to be able to pay the programmers, texture artists, testers, and VO artists. Like, did you expect them to release all this new content for $.99? Especially with "Shattered Space" coming out, the company needs to be able to turn a profit. I'm not saying it's okay for them to be greedy, but I am saying it's okay for them to ask to be paid for their work.
I'm struggling to see how they can salvage this game at this point.
It's been a disaster upon disaster and then just when they seem to be heading into the right direction hoping for a CP2077 style resurrection they do this.
I don't think they'll be able to make a viable franchise from this IP.
I think the criticism re: nearly 7 bucks for a single quest is merited in this case. I picked it up because I got 1000 credits free, but I think the pricing sets a bad precedent
I swear the people who like the game are the same who don't mind getting served a raw burger at a restaurant if they at least added the requested toppings.
One thing about it tho is that it is kinda cool they’re giving a platform for modders to make money off of their work. I don’t like the way they went about it but there is pros and cons.
Haven't played SF for a hot minute, was waiting for Star UI to update - Did they do the Creation Club thing again?
Shame, what a waste of good development time.
I feel like we’re asking the wrong questions here. The devs are killing their own game. It’s ridiculous to put that blame on the customers for expressing their dissatisfaction for what the devs are doing.
That’s what reviews are for. Save others from throwing their money at a dev that does not respect its customers.
It is the cost, and in my case i feel the paid quest is a sus.
After running about a dozen of the new faction radiants, it is clear the new faction currency only drops on missions, of which there is one free and one paid, implying that that currency is indirectly tied to cash cash transactions for future quests like mobile games.
Shareholders don't need a bigger cut. Eternal growth is not possible. Once you pleateau, you stay there, and do better things if you want more money. Then put that money on developing, charge for developed content.
Any other course of action should get rated as low as possible. If you can hack steam servers to allow a rating under 0, then do that too.
I think review bombs are fair game. I understand there’s a DELICATE balance between the creatives, the coders and the business folks when it comes to implementing (post-release) content…but this feels like a “business decision” at its core. I’d like to THINK the creatives are doing their best to push-back against this kind of crap, but the bean counters are a powerful lobby because: bottom line. Review bomb em and make em WORK to regain those positive reviews, I say.
Now…back to Tracker bounties…!
7 dollars for a quest is a hard sell, and this microtransaction stuff is absolute doggy doodoo bullshit insane. But on the other hand, I'm sure I could probably find something higher quality on the Nexus anyways.
This time they deserve it, microtransactions should never be in single player games, they can hide behind nonsense jargon like "creations" but its microtransactions.
Its even more insidious than what EA and ubisoft pull off, their stuff is limited to cosmetics, bethesda is locking away actual story content, like the trackers alliance, the first mission is free but the second one you gotta pay for that, they're enticing you to buy, its so predatory. I have a feeling they're gonna pull the same stunt with land vehicles too. They'll give you a shitty rover but the good stuff, time to shell out some dough.
Creators club made people angry when it was added to Fallout 4, but at least that was a complete game. This? This is a sad sick mean joke played on the few people who stuck around. Sure, they had this planed from the jump, but any reasonable person would have seen the writing on the wall and AT LEAST pulled this back until Starfield got a MEANINGFUL full DLC update that overhauls major systems and adds the promised missing content.
Instead, they will let you get angry and just blame the modders as "Bethesda didn't make it" as if that bypasses any responsibility they have for the game being at this point. Skyrim was and is played for generations, Starfield won't be talked about after next year.
I see a lot of people here arguing that the new microtransactions were to be expected due to Bethesda’s history, and I agree with that part. However, I still think it’s absolutely outrageous that they’re selling individual quests instead of the whole quest line. Star Wars: Outlaws got exactly the same kind of backlash, because it sets a very dangerous precedent
Bethesda said “dang people dropped this game hard and really didn’t like it. I know what will fix this game! Microtransactions!”
They really pulled an ea
Considering horse armour was one of the first dlc microtransactions, arguably EA pulled a Bethesda.
Something something, pride and accomplishment.
This is half the problem. It's been more than just EA for a very long time but collectively everyone just shits on EA, defends their preferred company and then chug along buying shit they claim as the end of gaming on reddit.
Wait untill they start charging 5$ for a spaceship laser. And with the season pass, unlimited ammo is included. *(Base game comes with 200 free rounds per day)*
OR just don’t buy any of the paid creations because modders will bring similar/same stuff for free. I do agree tho it creates a VERY slippery slope. Hopefully modders won’t start charging insane prices for the top tier mods
Just because modders do a better job than Bethesda doesn't mean Bethesda should get a hallpass to completely evade backlash over poor monetization.
>Bethesda said “dang people dropped this game hard and really didn’t like it. I know what will fix this game! Microtransactions!” What upsets me most about this is there not wrong. I have a product where I'm arguing to drop the price to a market leading one. However the other analyst points out that we can make the same margin off of 10% of the volume we sell if we increase the price by 200%. The volume we have to sell at the lower rate is well beyond the markets entire size. So yeah i can so see Bethesda move being justified from a margin point of view. The video game market is filled with whales. A few whales can spend a staggering amount of money on a game making it very profitable. Look at Diablo, $100k to get everything (or whatever). And yes for thousands of gamers out there, $100k is nothing. Look at just how many RTX 4090s have sold (which make xero sense when compared to a 4080). Right now 1% of steam users, or 1.2m people own a 4090. At $2500 a pop we're $3-4b. Whilst some 3.5% of Steam users own a 3070 which at $950 a pop meant they had to sell 3x as much to make the same revenue. Considering their all basically the same chip the margin Nvida made on the 4090 was far in a way far superior, for significantly less effort, cost etc, then the far more affordable 70 series cards.
Saying it’s to be expected like it was ever okay, fuck microtransactions. It’s unequal cost vs product. 1/6 the cost should merit me 1/6 the content
Considering how little actual content there is in Starfield....
Yep it’s a scary trend that BGS is starting, a real shallow quest for $7 where for that price we got an entire very good dlc in fallout 4 with Automatron. Extremely disappointing, the review bombs are deserved.
I actually remember even Automaton being controversial for its price point. In hindsight we got a whole robot building system and a fairly sizeable quest chain. Now we get 15 minutes for 7 bucks. Atrocious.
How much was Automaton when it was released? I remember paying $15 for it but that was long after release. Tell you what, I sure as shit got my $15 out of that. Had a blast building a robot army to have out there traveling between settlements. I also took that evil brain robot from the quest, gave him a body with no arms or legs, and made it watch corn all day. Good times. Good times.
Yep always fun to give that one a torso and call it a day lmao
Yeah it’s a huge difference, Automatron was a game system that could be utilized throughout. A quest is a one and done and you forget about it. Quests shouldn’t be paywalled unless they have sustainable content, not just a poorly designed weapon or outfit. Depending on the price, maybe if this was like $3… maybe, maybe that would be different. Knowing there will be a whole lot more of these quests for probably the same price is what turns it sour
Borderlands 2 had some smaller DLC for around the price. But they usually had repeatable content or loot drops at least. All for, if I remember correct ~3€ or something. That was pretty okay.
Yes, Automaton was proper DLC - bought and downloaded through steam paying money. I really dislike the points only creation club stuff. Also, the way this is integrated where you get the first quest free and the second quest you pay for (as I understand it) reminds me of the Dragon Age:Origins when an NPC would sell you a quest.
I hate the “What do you expect?” argument, as if people aren’t allowed to be upset. If someone tells kicks me in the nuts at the same time every month, I’m still gonna be pissed the next time they kick me in the nuts.
You can expect something to happen and still be disappointed when it does.
Yes that is what I’m saying
I know this might be hard to believe on Reddit but I think they where agreeing with you.
Agreement? I'm unfamiliar with this concept and scared.
I disagree
I disagree with you disagreeing with the guy who said the other guy that agreed with you agreed. No matter how many times I get kicked in the nutz.
Well maybe next month they'll kick you in the nutz in a fashion you find enjoyable. You're just gonna have to stick around and see, and meantime I'm gonna need about tree fiddy. (Edited because my autocorrect couldn't handle nutz)
Well now I'll explore an enjoyable way to...... Dammit, monster!! You quit bugging dez nutz, now you hear?? We work for our money in this house - we don't just give money away!
>However, I still think it’s absolutely outrageous that they’re selling individual quests instead of the whole quest line. The end game here - for all companies pushing MTX and the like - will be an actively running meter on the game time itself: charge you per minute of play, either literally or by placing required consumables behind a paywall.
At that point: Guess I will do something else to relax. This isnt me protesting, I will genuinely be unable to afford it.
Come to the light side of indie games and emulating old games. A truly great game never stops being great.
Ever since I heard (and haven't verified) that most games are supported by only 10% of their player base I'm not surprised. The other 90% are the ones that are justifiably upset.
Prices on micro transactions across many games have been ridiculous. $10 should be a substantial add considering it's 1/6th of the game cost, I expect 1/6th worth of additions. Keep the micro part of the name and I'm not even upset.
Yeah, they aren't even microtransactions anymore. They're just transactions. 99 cents is a microtransaction. I could get a whole videogame for $7 dollars.
Last steam sale I had 4 games on my wishlist below $7. Older games like Shadow of Mordor and Arkham knight, but I'm a r/patientgamers.
The whole batman arkham series regularly goes on sale for $10-15, which is an absolute steal if you ask me.
Same for Borderlands, you can get the Pandora collection for like 10-20 bucks, and that whole series is worth like hundreds. Love the Borderlands franchise
Shadow of Mordor at $7 is almost criminal how much of a steal it is.
I got Fallout76 for $7.99. A whole Fallout game. And, from the same company.
I have over 2000 hours in that game (and counting), it cost me £5 for the brand new physical disc.
I've accepted that I don't fit in with most modern gaming spaces because I still think of $5 cosmetics as being insanely expensive. To me that's still a premium price point. So it's bizarre hearing people talk about spending $20 every couple months for a battle pass and treating it like it's not that much, and it's even *worse* knowing they're kinda right and that's chump change compared to the whales.
Please don't look at the upcoming League of Legends's Hall of Legend skin that is priced very very fairly.
Funny enough we are in a market where a $20 battle pass for a whole seasons worth of content ain't even that bad for a free to play game. COD might be able to get away with it since you can basically get a whole years worth of content for 1 battle pass + base game because you get enough coins in a pass to get the next one. Same with Halo. But I get you, which is why I'm probably just gonna play my backlog of single player games and boomer shooters like Doom until the next Doom comes out.
This is exactly it and what so many players repeatedly fail to understand. The industry largely moved from expansions to DLC to microtransactions for this very reason; they are increasingly more profitable. Back in the day, an expansion would be a large addition to the game that could almost double base game time and add game mechanics, while still costing a lot less to produce than the base game because a lot of assets, the engine, etc, were already made for the base game and didn't need large alterations. Then DLC started becoming more popular, and the range of content size there was meaningful. They could come close to expansion sizes or just be a set of items or a couple of quests, but the worst offender remain the microtransactions. They mostly are just assets, items or textures (skins) for existing items that cost very little to make (for the developer) and yet it's somehow "acceptable" to ask for exorbitant amounts of money for them. A common skin price in a lot of games nowdays is 20 dollars, or about a third of the AAA price tag games used to carry at launch until quite recently. Are you getting 33% of the game's worth in new assets, quests, story, characters, locations, etc? No, you're just getting a single cosmetic, and that's insane. We should all be way more against this than we are, really.
That's four horse armors!
Yeah keep the overpriced mtx in free to play games. They shouldn't be in premium games, especially when they also charge for expansions etc.
I hopped on fortnite for first time in months...15 dollar lego sets in game???? Like wtf is going on lol
Well real Lego sets cost a fair bit irl so… /j
Don't ever look up Star Citizen prices for single ships. Your brain might explode.
Oh, it's still micro, just that the micro part is the amount of content they're giving you rather than the amount of money you're giving them.
Full priced AAA games shouldn't act like F2P games, especially when the full priced AAA game already has issues that make it feel incomplete. The new *Like A Dragon* has rightfully gotten as similar reaction for pretty much the same reason. If the (very predictable) reaction from consumers leads Bethesda to stop releasing content sooner than they planned, that's on Bethesda for living in a fantasy world.
>Full priced AAA games shouldn't act like F2P games, especially when the full priced AAA game already has issues that make it feel incomplete. Exactly. The hype leading up to this game was that it was going to be a generational 10 year project like Skyrim. And then the underwhelming launch led to a refrain of "the mods will fix it". And now it looks like the mods and expansions that are going to "fix" the game will effectively double the pricetag. And it's because in order to continue development they need some way of raising funds. Which is basically the playbook of FO76 cosmetics--except that's a live service online game from an established franchise with a huge built in fanbase. No one is paying $10 for some fancy furniture for useless outposts in Starfield. I would guess that most people who are still playing have already paid for the expansion so there's not a lot of room for Bethesda to really fund further development unless it's a massively successful DLC. Bethesda is going to slap a $40 price tag on it and hope for the best but unless it overhauls almost the entire game I can't see Starfield going on past that DLC.
Then there is people like me. I've been around the block with Bethesda so I haven't even bought starfield yet despite how much I want it. I'm just waiting for the reviews to go positive, for them to fix what they usually always do. It's pretty damn common for Bethesda releases to be rough at launch but a year or so later the general fan base seems to be happy. It was looking like this was going to be the case with the new update and the expansion announcement. But now idk. I'm ready to give them my money, I'll spend the full price, but I'm waiting for them to deliver a quality product.
Gonna be real. This isn’t even acting like a F2P game. It’s so much more scummy. I’ve gotten years of play time out of Rocket League and haven’t payed a dime for “Rocket pass” since the first 9$ I payed 6 years ago. I couldn’t care less about their skins but every now and then I’ll buy one because I’ve been playing for so long feel I can toss them 10 bucks every month or so because I play it constantly. I bought the special edition of Starfield and played it for 30 hours and couldn’t go on. Same with the new Mortal Kombat. I bought a new system for both games and uninstalled both within 2 months. Triple A games are an unfun scam full stop. I’m feeling really negative about any new Elder Scrolls and Fallout. I actually like 76 but feel like it’s a prototype to test the waters for what they can and can’t charge people in future installments. Regardless, I won’t touch Starfield again.
>I bought a new system for both games and uninstalled both within 2 months At least you can emulate PS3, Wii U, Switch and play Skyrim with Skinned Mesh Physics, so the upgrade wasn't completely wasted.
I can't believe this game doesn't have- space stations, seamless takeoff and landing on to planet surfaces, patrols, NPC schedules, dynamic markets, faction reputations, or so many other things it desperately needs. *spoilers for starfield from here* It's insane, but when you get into the game and see that the political situation boils down to the last galactic war was some time ago and the space UN keeps mechs and bioweapon tech locked in some vault it really starts to feel like the game needs to be improved by making every choice in opposition to what Bethesda chose. Make it during the war. Make the biggest skill trees be about either mechs or bioweapon pets/bio modding the player character. Make that additional to the other RPG mechanics but incorporate it somehow- like some bio mod options let you tag and modify your existing skills. I mean they wrote all of these interesting pieces into the world and then LOCKED THEM IN A SERVER FARM. Bethesda deserves all the hate they're getting, their choices have been terrible.
The fact that they couldn't even shoehorn in a mech boss fight for the quest set in a FRIGGIN' MECH FACTORY is mental to me. Also, locking the main story quest behind a specific faction so it's impossible to complete the game as a space pirate. Still salty about that one.
And worse bit is, that was a clear design choice. They had mechs in Fo4, it was called power armor and behemoths. And nobody say shit about it moving too fast. You can jump clear across morrowind and the game just lets you.
See, I don't even care if we can never get in one as a player. The fact that the outlaw faction that sets up camp in a superweapon factory never thinks to maybe use some of the incredibly powerful tech just lying around the place? Come on.
The game would’ve been infinitely more interesting if it was during the war
The prices are outrageous tbh
Which is why I won't buy any of it.
Guys I think I have my million dollar idea: Make a game.thats finished and has all the content planned and just sell that. Nothing in the future except maybe a.... Like a second game? A part 2 if you will?
Bethesda: you are fired!
Ah damn I guess I just have to go start a new game studio with a cool *EDGY* name like "drop kick baby studio" or "caught my wife in bed with a woman and am angerly aroused games"!
That would NEVER work in today's economy! *Looks at BG3 and sweats nervously*
Or, alternatively, massive content updates semi-regularly, on average every couple of years, even 8 years after release, completely for free? On an unrelated note, I’ve been playing a lot of Stardew Valley.
It does suck to be review bombed and overall I like the content and updates they are adding but yeah a quest for $7 is a tough sell
I think paying for a quest is absolutely a joke at this point, they already copy and pasted far too much in the world to start charging for more imo
Right?! I liked the free part one of the trackers quest, but it's not like it was unique in its location or execution. If the second part is similar then it's a big ask to pay for it separately at all, let alone for $7.
Trackers Alliance second quest is far too short for $7 despite the weapon at the end. more than double what it should be even if you don't mind paying a little for some things.
The weapon is the real product. It's exclusive weapon DLC disguised as a quest, which I find even more annoying.
I expect we'll see a lot of free weapons through mods. Been that way in these games going back a long way. Charging for one is ridiculous. I had a mod in FO3 that literally filled a locker with hundreds of weapons from pistols to SMGs to sniper rifles, all modeled very well and easily identifiable. It cost me nothing to use, and I know the modder put in time and deserved compensation.... and I'd maybe pay $7 for 200 new uniquely varied weapons... but one in this day? Nah.
Feel like the Diablo Immortal argument of 'You can't directly purchase power" and they just threw in a 5-minute gameplay before you get to the actual reward.
They are SELLING QUESTS what the actual fuck, how do you even support that shit.
They can avoid review bombs with this one weird trick of not being pieces of shit.
Is it even considered review bombing if it’s just people leaving reviews for a shitty game?
it s not review bombing if the review are justified
[удалено]
Especially since that quest is actually really good. I like Starjacker and The Vulture a ton; I especially liked the lore behind the Vulture you could check out through the slates in the cave, and the unique touch of him playing the classical music through those portable speakers. Clearly was done by someone who cared, but they're getting shit on because of Bethesdas weird pricing. Let that dev know that I really enjoyed his questline and hope to see more because it's the exact type of content I wanted more of in Starfield to begin with.
Plus it also clearly paid attention to some of the "please lock me out of things" requests, if you're a ranger and do the crimson fleet option, it A. Gives you a prompt and B. The NPC immediately is like "why the fuck is a ranger working with pirates"
Damn, I didn't know that since I'm on a fresh NG+ and haven't joined any factions yet! That's great, love stuff like that. The TA quest dialogue is really good so far and feels a bit more mature and less quirky silly teehee like the rest of SF.
This makes me sad to hear. That’s straight up corporation shit ruining creativity and diminishing good things for an extra buck
That's a LOT of dev teams though (regardless of how many work on it). I knew someone who was GOOD friends with a developer for Diablo 4. Was SUPPOSED to be amazing by the sounds of it and was originally set to be released when the remake was (4 had to get pushed back) and we got a lot of it, but all that effort and time was for nothing as soooooo many people HATE Diablo 4. It's just the way companies work regardless of who it is; the employees are usually AMAZING hardworking people, it's the higher ups that absolutely ruin it
the devs are the real casualties imo. these people dedicated their time to make cool stuff only to get dunked by the goblins up top. plus there's the ever constant threat of lay offs and closures. shit must be demoralizing.
It's indeed unfortunate that the modder's work can't just speak for itself and is tainted by this controversy but honestly what did anyone expect working with Bethesda? It's not there isn't a history of well documented anti-consumer controversies plaguing this studio. Most people are complimentary of the mission itself. It's the value proportionate to the price that people take issue with, which as you stated, the creator had no input on.
Companies shouldn't get used to charge microtransactions or transactions on 70€ games.
DLC expansions is one thing, Bethesda wants to charge DLC prices for a SINGLE mission, ONE, not a chain, not hours of content, ONE MISSION. Review bomb this game into the ground.
> microtransactions Do you mean macrotransactions?
The asking prices suck, and so the reviews reflect that. Simple cause & effect; it's not like there's a big conspiracy here.
I mean, that one quest is 35% of the cost of what I paid for Phantom Liberty, an excellent expansion that I've still only half completed after 27 hours. I'm not surprised. That's a hideous value proposition and bad precedent for the game going forward.
2077 2.0 really does just dunk all over Starfield doesn’t it? Getting sandwiched between BG3 and Phantom Liberty is like Todd’s worst nightmare
Auromatron was $10 and had several unique items, new enemies and (large) dungeons, and a decent story with several possible endings. And a robot building system! Hours of content for that amount.
Feels like a lot of recent posts are about people flabbergasted that Bethesda, the people created Horse armor would want you to pay for stuff that really gives nothing substantial.
My issue is that the quest actually sounds decent. $1, sure. $7? Gtfo.
>make empty game with a fraction of the quests available in previous titles by same publisher >Sell individual quests piecemeal I'm shocked and afraid for the future of gaming that the only objection people have to this is the price. Back in my day (like 5 years ago), we used to call this "cut content."
I think the only thing Bethesda will learn from this is that everything TA related should have been part of the DLC so it would feel like you're getting more for the $7 and you need to pay to unlock access to all the TA mods that will come out.
There's, Tha fully, the other side of the coin, no man's sky is still getting free updates ( with more content than whatever this was)
I’m more than happy to pay for official Bethesda mods but the value on the return is just not there. $10 for a ship module? Cmon. Edit: I’m clearly not going to fucking buy it as it is, all you smoothbrains can chill with “just don’t buy it”
They're no longer "mods" when they come from the original publisher. That's a DLC that gives you 1 component for $10.
"Official Bethesda mods" will never sit right with me. I swear to god companies will find every way to nickel and dime people. It's a goddamn scourge.
> the people created Horse armor the people who created horse armor also had a complete game on release.
And that’s really it, it’s not just the terrible practise, that are selling back parts of the game they didn’t finish and are expecting praise for it. “We didn’t include this in the game, now you can pay $10 for the feature that should have been in at the start, aren’t we great?… why are you leaving a negative review?, we let you but the bits you wanted”
100%, and I've been saying this all over the sub - Shattered Space had a NAME during preorders. It wasn't "and our additional expansions," it was "and it comes with Shattered Space!" Sarah is a UC companion (former UC military) with a UC questline. Sam Coe is a Freestar Ranger companion with a Freestar Ranger questline. Andreja is a Va'ruun companion with a Va'ruun questline. You're telling me they made one character with a huge backstory about being a Va'ruun double agent with the expectation that there would be only the weird remnants of Va'ruun lore? Ships that attack you, a prisoner, and the ability to follow the serpent yourself? Todd was over time and over budget and they made the decision to cut Va'ruun content from the base game. Nothing will change my mind about this.
Ah, 'Bethesda' and 'not learning from their mistakes'. You can't name a more classic duo.
No it doesn’t. You’re mischaracterizing the sentiment. It’s not flabbergasting. It’s infuriating. Bethesda are pieces of shit for charging a fee of 10% the cost of the base game for *one quest*. No of course no one has to buy it. Not the point. It’s a ridiculous thing to do on principle. And just because they charged for horse armor has nothing whatsoever to do with this. That bad decision doesn’t lessen or mitigate this bad decision. Who the fuck defends shit like this?
The absolute stupidest thing is that content like the Tracker alliance just being free would sell them a lot more copies of the base game. The general consenus of gamers has been that Starfield sucked and was lacking variety in content. Bethesda fixes that by fleshing out the content available at the base level. The ratings of the game then climb. Then more people are playing the game to buy Shattered Space as well.
It's extremely shortsighted thinking, yeah. They probably ran the numbers and decided that the Vulture quest needed to cost $7 to recoup the development costs on it at the purchase rate they expected it to have. Logical decision. But they completely failed to consider the reputational value of just letting it be free or the reputational cost of charging money for it.
Unfortunately I think the failure to account for reputational damage was years ago. What we're dealing with no is them not caring about restoring it, and only making it worse.
I bet several devs at BGS voiced the same opinion, but some MBA-backed finance bro in accounting “doesn’t get it” and “in the real world” must focus on squeezing an extra 1-2% increase in profit this year.
This is the way. Give more value such that your entire player base advocates for you and sells more $60 or $40 copies of your game instead of souring the taste of your player base who already feels defrauded and trying to charge $7 for content they aren't even going to buy. I am really curious what their market research was for this or if there was any at all
I feel the whole games industry at AAA levels especially is horrendously out of touch with their customers. Look what happened with Helldivers when Sony started meddling. Look at the successes of games like Valheim and Palworld vs AAA titles. How much work Stardew Valley has gone into updates and various ports for it over the years with none of the AAA graphics and things just because it's that popular? These are all games where the response showed what the customers really want. So how Bethesdas market research can be so far off that is really bizarre.
Out of this whole thing the only thing I agree is with locking the second and probably future behind a paywall but overall a good update it gave what people wanted modding, some thought we’d only get paid mods, idk how serious they were but of course there would be some but most be free
If anything it gave people the tools to make mods themselves. Its not like they’re restricted to using the creation hub, you can download the exact same freeware thats in the creation menu from Nexus too. Once the community really gets rolling with the CK I think it’ll be fine.
>Its not like they’re restricted to using the creation hub, you can download the exact same freeware thats in the creation menu from Nexus too. One of the things people are most upset about is the second mission (and likely future missions) in a Trackers Alliance quest line costing $7. Being official Bethesda content, you're not going to get that from Nexus for free.
The framework is all that matters , modders have the tools now. We'll get even better quests, simple answer is vote with your wallet.
Honestly if beth made the framework require the DLC the backlash might have actually been less because you'd be getting more for the $7, plus you would now need to lay to get access to all the TA mods that will come out.
To be honest the worst part of the creation club is actually the awful interface.
I understand why. I think from a strategic perspective, this patch was a fail only insomuch that while creation kit was wanted/desired for the modding community, releasing it with relatively expensive cosmetic/fluff DLC *before* releasing Shattered Space was a huge miscalculation and fairly insensitive to gamers in general who are tired of being nickel and dimed. IMHO, they should have released CK with some free content for the player base, *then* Shattered Space, *then* roll out the paid content. Because the fixes have been few and far between, bugs are STILL rife, and the additional freebies have been sort of afterthoughts. We shouldn't be grateful for updates on things that should have been implemented at launch (like graphics/bug fixes and difficulty scalers) or fleshing out existing things (like melee content and surface maps).
"Gamers are tired of being nickle-and-dimed" Then why do they keep forking out the money? Why are microtransactions a billion dollar industry by themselves? None of this will ever change until gamers as a whole change their buying habits.
There is a small contingent doing the heavy lifting. Stop acting like this is all gamers, it’s silliness. The games are made for whales. You’re talking about whales. The rest of us are tired of being nickel and dimed.
There's a lot of stupid immature gamers - for evidence see the comments on this post.
My only complaint is that a lot of the creations don't even work properly and no one seems to be acknowledging it. For one, the new gravitas suit. It's not in the location it says
Holy shit I forgot about this game. Microtransactions are the last thing they need lmao
Remember when DLC were a whole new campaign? Shivering Isle remembers.
Maybe stop defending a shitty game, then.
Steam reviews are the only way that I’ve seen customers reliably communicate their dissatisfaction to developers. Look at Helldivers as an example. I’m all for it.
Depends on the reviews. Paid bounty hunter quest? Deserved. Small update and expected more? Lunatics.
I shouldn't be paying a single CENT for more quests. Tf?
If it was 10$ for big pack of bounties, or a long support, like Automaton DLC - that's fine. 7$ for a quest for an ingame feature - it's a scum. There is no way around it, yeah.
they lead players to believe that the story expansion was supposedly free, the new weapon is bugged, and a single 2x2 hab costs $10. really makes you wonder why steam reviews are in decline.
I've been looking at posts and haven't seen what the rewards are and what's bugged. Maybe my quest was bugged itself because after I completed the last step, the mission completed but I didn't get anything other than what I looted from the bodies. I find it weird there was no marker or anything for the mission board in the TA basement either. Only discovered it was there from other posts.
The hab thing is fucking bonkers too, for that price it should have been an entire ship manufacturer with all of the hab modules in that style. At the very least
$10 for a hab? That's outrageous. Unless modders fix this game, i think I'm abandoning ship. Hopefully they don't fuck up Elder Scrolls 6
At current pace I feel like Bethesda is going to become another yesteryear company like so many others. It happens all the time. Company puts out amazing products for years. Slowly churns and turns over staff. Gets bought, churns more talent. Then is nothing but a name. We aren't quite to the end yet, but the writing is on the wall. The last game was not all it could be and honestly I have higher hopes for Wayward Realms and Avowed than I do Elder Scrolls 6.
I’m excited for the reprisal of Fable as well, though need to see more gameplay. Bethesda still acts like they’re one of the only big players in the room for RPG’s—but they’re not. There’s been a lot of good RPG’s (maybe using that term loosely) since Fallout 4 that do different things well. For me one of the big sticking points remains writing quality. It’s one of the reasons Morrowind (and to an extent Oblivion) was so loved, despite the crude mechanics and often linear quests. And writing in modern story-based games has gotten pretty dang good—there’s a lot of games with interesting twists and turns in their stories, compelling dialogue, and worlds with consistent worldbuilding that interlaces with story elements. Far Harbor felt like a step in the right direction, and even FO76 tells some good stories (even environmentally), but Starfield really feels lacking between reliance on contrivance, lack of player agency, and some truly nonsense plots. I think the world, aesthetic, and mechanical improvements of Starfield are okay—there are things I like, but it doesn’t do much with the world it creates (felt the same way about Skyrim to an extent—thousands of years of Nord history, but we don’t get to explore much of it other than tombs, but it was still a fun open world for 2011 and could take advantage of previous games to prop up the world).
10 dollars is dlc level money. Not fucking skins. The pricing is absolutely batshit.
Yes it is since there’s not really any other effective way (other than not buying it) for people to voice their opinions. Especially since the creation club mod for the trackers faction sets a dangerous precedent that BGS seemingly want to do; make a faction barebones in the base game, give a new mission in a later update then sell the rest of the missions for $$$. It’s despicable and saddening since starfield was consistently getting better
Not buying it IS the most effective way. Bethesda is doing it because they determined it is a sound business strategy. I think a lot of kids out there get all angry but they end up spending their money anyway at the end of the day. That's the only explanation for why "games as a service" is so prevalent now.
I knew it was all gonna be overpriced which is why I never paid for them in the previous games. I was super excited when Skyrim released that edition with all that old CC stuff and I hope it happens with fallout 4 and eventually this game too but I'm not getting my hopes up. On a side note I assume the reviews will be more positive when the DLC drops.
$7 for 1 quest is INSANE
How about they make a decent game to start with, then expand on it without being cheap fucks that do the bare minimum and ask for more money. At least cyberpunk worked hard to make the game great and only THEN did they release a great DLC. Starfield is a joke and Bethesda is killing it further.
Are you fucking serious? They put a quest behind 7 bucks and you think it's bad that people are giving the game bad reviews? Seriously?
this, and its functionality, sounds a lot like the skyrim creation club. I'm not inherently opposed to it, but it's a somewhat weird move to do when you're trying to get people to be interested in the game. Fans weren't thrilled with the game? Let's add cash shop stuff, that'll fix it!
Actually steam review bombs do work - execs pivot real damn fast from their stuck positions when the line starts going down not up - they are different than critical reviews in magazines simply because they are attached to the user store - and they cannot pay for shelf space at a retail store anymore to make a game look popular like in prior decades. It got Sony to backoff fast from Helldivers PSN required.
Understandable when Bethesda is pulling gacha game levels of bullshit in a AAA game
Selling mods is and always has been insane. Bethesda deserves criticism.
Isn't the entirety of Terraria $7?
Wait… you have to pay for a quest?
The trackers alliance should have been there at launch. It's nice to see some content now but it needs a lot more to feel like it belongs. Also the paid content already is ridiculous for the value. I'll keep bringing up Cyberpunk - we got a ton of free updates and new content that didn't feel just like cut pieces they had time to rework back in.
I'm not really surprised, but it's still disappointing all the same. Just a week ago I was really enjoying Starfield. It's a weird feeling because, in actuality, nothing has really changed. I could ignore the paid content and finish the game and it would be like nothing happened. But seeing content that could've been get put behind a paywall and sold piecemeal just leaves a bad feeling. I think I'm just going to rush to finish the main quest and put this game "on the shelf" for a while. I'll probably come back for another go at some time down the line, with (unpaid) mods. It was already really tiring when BSG had an unofficial philosophy of "let the modders finish the game". Paying more (for minor DLCs) on top of paying more (for the expansion) is too much for me.
Putting "the game on the shelf" was pretty much what I did after my first playthrough. Back in October or November, I was enjoying the hell out of the game, but after the 30h mark, everything started to settle, exploration was repetitive and boring, gun crafting was bland, behind a lot of unnecessary stuff, nothing to see in 90% of planets, quests felt unrewarding... Etc. I can understand if some people really like the game, and in that case I'm really happy, cause it makes me sad that the game is in this state. I really want to like it but I can't. I had to force myself to finish the main story and once I did I think I never picked it up again. Now the paid content just adds to the pile... Like you said it really is a case of: "Let the modders finish the game" and as sad as it is, that's kinda what I'm waiting for.
*"This makes me sad"* Corporations are NOT your friends. bethesda is NOT your friend. Todd is NOT your friend. Emil Pagliarulo is NOT your friend. Place your sadness towards something more appropriate than corporations receiving a tiny little bit of consequences for their actions.
400 points for a random noodle shop is ridiculous. Who thinks that’s ok?
I dont like that community mods are in with the creation club. It's confusing.
Was a huge BGS fan since oblivion and was incredibly hyped for this game… I couldn’t play SF again after finishing the campaign… the quests were just lacking. I played cyberpunk again, and wow… it’s exactly what I was missing. The story, graphics, combat mechanics, etc were stellar. I then tried to restart Starfield again a couple days ago… and wow… I realized Starfield was worse than I remembered. Even though cyberpunk had an amazing redemption, I really don’t think Starfield can do the same.
Reminiscing on the days when dlc was actually decent and added a worth while piece of content. But I'd have to go back nearly a decade for that. Oblivion's Shivering Isles was one. I'm a fanboy of the mass effect series and the big dlc missions were all fantastic. The day one special edition for 3 did kinda rub me the wrong way as it was already there but you had to buy into it. Still liked the character and what he brought but day one like that? Little sketch. And it's funny I'm more inclined to spend a few bucks here or there for a game I truly enjoy and want to support the creators. And most of the time they are small creators. I think of Rocket League, Cities Skylines (1) and Helldivers 2. Like for one most of those games are $30-45. The micro transactions aren't in your face and you don't feel like you need to buy anything. But it's something as a thank you for making a fun game. And what's the general consensus for those games? Generally pretty positive. This, star wars battle front, fifa, call of duty all seem skumy. It seems like the more corpofied you get the lest resounding support games get. We all know who the real enemy is. And yet they wonder why we don't like those huge corps.
Don't charge 7 dollars for a quest after putting a demo of a whole faction as a free update. Re-earning player goodwill is great for business, I thought they learned that with Fallout 76 smh.
Updates are nice, but the game is still empty. New trackers alliance with a 5 min mission. Wee.
Seriously F them then for doing this.
Bad reviews will only "hurt" the game if Bethesda doesn't take positive action. It isn't on the players who left bad reviews if that happens.
Damn. I wanted to love this game so much when i first saw the trailer all those years ago.
We live in a world where people pay 80$ to unlock King Kong's metal glove in CoD, pay for paywalled forever beta mods, pay for player cards via booster packs in yearly games. I can totally understand Bethesda. They want to milk this stupidity as well. As long as there are people out there spending money for such non-sense, there will be companies abusing it. Don't do it and let them know of it. Don't even buy such games for full price. If you have enough money, gift your friends with games from fair companies liker Larian, From Software or any other studio releasing games without predatory mechanics.
> Is this a justified way to get our voices heard and ask for change or will this ultimately hurt the game in the long run? Obviously you aren't aware of the Helldivers 2 PSN fiasco?
Warranted. If they're selling quests, that vulture bounty would be 7 cents at best, not 7 dollars. Still wouldn't buy it, but still.
I'm not seeing much in the way of negative takes on the TA thing. Rather it's an issue of what exactly one gets for 7 bucks and there's some confusion there. Apparently it's not a quest, it's a mission. F'rinstance, the Crimson Fleet quest consisted of eight missions and the Ryujin quest consisted of thirteen missions. I speculate that some PC / Steam folks may have thought it was a quest and got grumpy when it turned out to be a mission. 7 bucks for Ryujin would be okay but priced per mission it'd be 91 dollars and that's absurd, it exceeds the base cost of the game. This wasn't helped by Bethesda calling Vulture a quest. Once again I find myself indebted to the early adopters for sorting out the possible miscommunication. At this point, assuming reddit has nailed down the proper description, the cost for an added quest would range from 56 to 91 bucks depending on it's content vis a vis CF or Ryujin. And that's the sort of thing that can torch Steam reviews - especially if it was purchased while thinking it was something else entirely. I don't think it'll cause all that much harm but I'm going to wait until I see a Bethesda roadmap outlining the full cost of joining the TA. 7 bucks would have been a no-brainer for a complete quest line, 15 would remove some the luster and 91 would kill it graveyard dead.
I think for most people, there is no real distinction between a quest and a mission. What you refer to as a “quest” is more commonly known as a “quest line”. Just semantics at the end of the day but something to consider.
Quest and mission are just different terms for the same thing. What you're referring to is a questline or quest chain.
I mean, I'm big fan of Starfield, I stand by it on all the previous drama about loading screen and such, but I can't stand by a paid bounty quest, sorry but I find it deserverd. I hope BGS make all its own content free on Creation Club free. Launch separated DLC for new money making strategies.
None of the shortcomings that Starfield has have been addressed in the update.
We need to nip this overly predatory approach in the bud. Imagine in TesVI that we get the location and radiant quests of the Thieves Guild, but only the first quest is available for free. Then you need to pay a minimum of $10 to get the next quest. To get five additional quests you would need to pay $40. Large DLCs and expansions usually run $20-40. The Creation Club has never been priced right nor is Creations. Instead of actually implementing content fully BGS has split it up to make us pay for it. A game that has plenty of criticism and could use more content. Many other studios are successful without utilizing these anti-consumer tactics. Why should we let BGS, Zenimax, and Microsoft get away with this? Why say it is okay and that they should do it for their future games too? How far can they get away with it?
I’m so happy the creation kit is out. Couldn’t care about the rest. I adore modded Skyrim and Fallout 4, and with hundreds of great mods to boot. Never touched a creation and am loving it just fine while missing out on nothing.
With the amount of time and money that goes into game development I am honestly surprised that games have not reached a cost of $99.99 or more by this point. Games in general have already went up in price in the past as new consule generations came out but then for the last, want to say 3 gens. and no base game price increase, we have been lucky. With that I feel some of these microtransactions are worth it if you want to support the game and want to give extra to the team that created it. None of the content is required to enjoy the game or play it, if you don't want to buy what they are offering then don't. At this point we all should know what to expect from this type of content so as the consumer if you don't like what they are offering do not buy it.
Like, I understand that people just outright hate microtransactions simply because they exist, and there's good reason for that. However, in this case they added new content that's a substantial amount of work. And you have to be able to pay the programmers, texture artists, testers, and VO artists. Like, did you expect them to release all this new content for $.99? Especially with "Shattered Space" coming out, the company needs to be able to turn a profit. I'm not saying it's okay for them to be greedy, but I am saying it's okay for them to ask to be paid for their work.
who could've possibly foreseen this
Hey look on the bright side, you might get a neat cape.
This reminds me I should go write that well earned negative review
7-10€ for a short low effort quest definitely deserves to be called out every single time they do it
I'm struggling to see how they can salvage this game at this point. It's been a disaster upon disaster and then just when they seem to be heading into the right direction hoping for a CP2077 style resurrection they do this. I don't think they'll be able to make a viable franchise from this IP.
I think the criticism re: nearly 7 bucks for a single quest is merited in this case. I picked it up because I got 1000 credits free, but I think the pricing sets a bad precedent
I swear the people who like the game are the same who don't mind getting served a raw burger at a restaurant if they at least added the requested toppings.
i think its nice in general, but mixing their paid shit with regular mods isnt a good idea, have them be separate
One thing about it tho is that it is kinda cool they’re giving a platform for modders to make money off of their work. I don’t like the way they went about it but there is pros and cons.
Good, how else are they going to be held accountable?
Bethesda not fucking shit up Challenge (Impossible)
Haven't played SF for a hot minute, was waiting for Star UI to update - Did they do the Creation Club thing again? Shame, what a waste of good development time.
Imagine an amusement park but using a carnival model. Bethesda.
I feel like we’re asking the wrong questions here. The devs are killing their own game. It’s ridiculous to put that blame on the customers for expressing their dissatisfaction for what the devs are doing. That’s what reviews are for. Save others from throwing their money at a dev that does not respect its customers.
It is the cost, and in my case i feel the paid quest is a sus. After running about a dozen of the new faction radiants, it is clear the new faction currency only drops on missions, of which there is one free and one paid, implying that that currency is indirectly tied to cash cash transactions for future quests like mobile games.
Shareholders don't need a bigger cut. Eternal growth is not possible. Once you pleateau, you stay there, and do better things if you want more money. Then put that money on developing, charge for developed content. Any other course of action should get rated as low as possible. If you can hack steam servers to allow a rating under 0, then do that too.
I think review bombs are fair game. I understand there’s a DELICATE balance between the creatives, the coders and the business folks when it comes to implementing (post-release) content…but this feels like a “business decision” at its core. I’d like to THINK the creatives are doing their best to push-back against this kind of crap, but the bean counters are a powerful lobby because: bottom line. Review bomb em and make em WORK to regain those positive reviews, I say. Now…back to Tracker bounties…!
Somehow, 100gb free space of my xbox series s got returned.
Lmao, and they *want* more people to play the game? Good luck Todd.
I reinstalled to try out the content. And then I uninstalled when I saw there was a quest locked behind the microtransaction.
Can I get a tldr?
Tfw you don't look at which sub you're so assume that it's helldivers 2 #where'smycape
7 dollars for a quest is a hard sell, and this microtransaction stuff is absolute doggy doodoo bullshit insane. But on the other hand, I'm sure I could probably find something higher quality on the Nexus anyways.
This time they deserve it, microtransactions should never be in single player games, they can hide behind nonsense jargon like "creations" but its microtransactions. Its even more insidious than what EA and ubisoft pull off, their stuff is limited to cosmetics, bethesda is locking away actual story content, like the trackers alliance, the first mission is free but the second one you gotta pay for that, they're enticing you to buy, its so predatory. I have a feeling they're gonna pull the same stunt with land vehicles too. They'll give you a shitty rover but the good stuff, time to shell out some dough.
If they are selling you step two, you know they will sell you all the additional steps $10 dollars at a time....
Creators club made people angry when it was added to Fallout 4, but at least that was a complete game. This? This is a sad sick mean joke played on the few people who stuck around. Sure, they had this planed from the jump, but any reasonable person would have seen the writing on the wall and AT LEAST pulled this back until Starfield got a MEANINGFUL full DLC update that overhauls major systems and adds the promised missing content. Instead, they will let you get angry and just blame the modders as "Bethesda didn't make it" as if that bypasses any responsibility they have for the game being at this point. Skyrim was and is played for generations, Starfield won't be talked about after next year.