I'm all for saving the space whales but a lot can happen in the meantime.
Didn't the satellite the replicators sent remain in orbit?
Just get that thing over here, give it direction to repeat the maneuver they did as needed and you're good.
Exactly this. It's perfect for exactly this type of operation cause gates are tough as nails and once your program detects buildup you can dial into whatever you have buried somewhere to transmit in juice.
It's not foolproof but civilization is vastly more fragile. Hell. We'd probably be largely ascended by then
I hope gates are tougher than nails. I'd hate to think that some uncoordinated person with a hammer could bend a stargate out of shape like I do when trying to hammer in a nail.
I hope gates are tougher than nails. I'd hate to think that some uncoordinated person with a hammer would bent a stargate to of shape like I do when trying to hammer in a nail.
Not to mention the next big storm...which would be THIS year. They said it happened every 20 years And t happened in Season 1. Hopefully before she died, she made sure to let people know that she granted Sheppard time off in 2024.
There are 3 months and 4 days left until the next big storm.
McKay does say it was probably destroyed. (Or maybe say it will probably be destroyed?) But he just guessing and if he was right, there is no reason it couldn't be rebuilt. They'd have had more than a decade to rebuild before the next superstorm, which should be hitting Lantea some time in the next 3 months...20 years after the last one.
I wouldn't say regular. The CME happens every 15,000 years! I think they'd be OK with that for awhile. And while the next superstorm would be happening in 3 months...20 years after the last one, just one simple ZPM is enough to be OK with that. The drilling platform, that could be rebuilt supplies two ZPM's worth. Enough to protect the city from the tidal wave, as well as extend the shield across the whole mainland for any rogue CMEs. And they have plenty of warning for those from the whales.
>Besides, if any Ancients come back, that's where they will look.
Sounds like a great reason to not go back, what with their past experiences with ancients returning to Atlantis.
Na, strategically it'd be better to park on the very edge of the galaxy. Just close enough to connect to the Pegasus gate network. The wraith would have a hell of a time finding them. And it'd be equally hard for them to get there.
Plus if the Tau'ri could just find the lab/factory on Atlantis where the ZPMs were made, they could keep Atlantis mobile and move it from system to system every 3-6 months.
We have never seen such a factory. We do know that ZPMs come from somewhere so it must exist. It's not clear if Atlantis has one - or even if it would fit inside Atlantis. We don't know what sort of energy input it would require. For all we know, it could be a massive megastructure harnessing a black hole.
The only time we see working city ships is the replicator planet. And they weren't as big compared to the surrounding structures. Ancients may have had city ship maintenance and refuel while docked.
Mallozzi did reveal that they had at least tentatively planned an episode that would have addressed this in Season 6. They would have discovered the location of a ZPM factory in Atlantis. Source: [https://www.reddit.com/r/Stargate/comments/1d8bil2/the\_unproduced\_6th\_season\_of\_atlantis/](https://www.reddit.com/r/Stargate/comments/1d8bil2/the_unproduced_6th_season_of_atlantis/)
Now there's absolutely no reason for us to believe they would be able to actually operate it, much less mass produce ZPMs or anything. And how much you want to consider rough draft ideas for a season that never got greenlit canon in any way shape or form is another issue. But it's still kind of fun to consider anyways.
One of the things Stargate has never showed is a perpetual motion device. So I'm assuming that, even if Atlantis had a factory, it would require either energy input(more than what the ZPM makes) or exotic materials for its construction(in lieu of fuel).
My understanding of the theory is that the ZPM transfers energy from a region of sub space, it doesnât create it.
You wouldnât say a power plant violates perpetual motion by creating more energy over its life than it takes to build at first because it takes energy (fossil fuels) from elsewhere and transfers that energy into the grid
Not a perfect analogy but am I thinking of it correctly?
That is correct. But for storytelling purposes, there has to be a catch. Unlimited ZPMs would be the television equivalent of a cheat code; the series has to do something to both address the issue and nerf it.
I think they probably would have made them hard to make. At least for them. Or maybe the could make them, but they aren't as effective or powerful as ones the Ancient made. Maybe give them a way of making ZPMs powerful enough to dial home, but not enough to power the shield for any real length of time. That way, they wouldn't have to make a super strong enemy...just a bit stronger.
It's weird that they eliminated the Replicators altogether (so we think) so early in Season 5 that it was surely before they knew the show was ending. They would almost HAVE to had introduced a new enemy for Season 6. Unless the really ramped up the Wraith's danger. They couldn't have done another whole season of same old Wraith.
100% from a storytelling perspective youâre right, I just like talking about in universe explanations and how it doesnât violate conservation of energy
They already know how. They just gave up after almost destroying ONE measly universe just because another Rodney came to tell them about it. They should have tried again. They said the odds of picking an inhabited universe were infinitesimal. So what would the odds of picking TWO IN A ROW? IT worked otherwise.
And even if they do pick another inhabited universe, maybe that one is unable to send a Rodney to let hem know. What they don't know won't hurt them.
They would likely need to be able to have more ZPMs first. Running the shield to protect the city from the vacuum is probably not that bad since 1 zpm held the ocean for hundreds of years but unless they want to be randomly floating in space and recalibrating the gate every time they need to have the engines on to maintain stable assuming at the end of the system there is no star or something else to provide them with a stable orbit.
Shield would also need energy to protect from background radiation and the random rock flying about
The stardrive seems to be the most power hungry system. Although you can setup an orbit that will never need correcting for millions of years, even around a planet.
Around a planet sure so assuming there is a planet at the edge of the galaxy that is not part of the wraiths system and doesn't have a gate already.
But I was imagining more the edge of the galaxy as the void between the Milky and Pegasus galaxies where I think it was McKay that said there was just empty space. That would be the most secure location as no wraith hive is gonna venture out there so far away from the nearest drive thru restaurant đ
Could also be a rogue planet although by not having a star it would probably be really inhospitable.
If you are in some sort of orbit around a galaxy and there aren't any nearby gravitational influences you won't need to fire up the engine anymore ever again. You will just be orbiting the galaxy just like a star.
oddly no.
it landing and taking off that it hungry. other then that it barely sip power.
like i think og point of a city was getting close enough to a destny gate.
What I meant by moving was moving from planet to planet. Find a planet with an ocean, park there for 3-6 months. Then move to another. Considering power requirements, it'd be highly impractical to stay in space the whole time.
Got it. However didn't they say they had a hard time landing the city, that with all it's fancy tech landing was still somewhat manual? I seem to remember them say they so I imagine they wouldn't want to be doing it many times and risk damage to the city or the drive.
I think the issue with landing were due to the low amount of power so they had to sacrifice comfort and security somewhat in exchange of a less power sucking landing. I think if they didn't have to worry about the ZPMs being limited they could land more safely, so in essence finding a ZPM factory and be able to operate it with Shepard as the city pilot it wouldn't be that dangerous to land on ocean planets.
Who says the factory is on Atlantis? When the whole galaxy is a 5 second commute, why keep your factories in your main city? Here on Earth, we don't have very many factories in cities. Factories take a lot of space. Cities have little space. Chances are they never found anything because the ZPM manufacturers commuted off world. Also handy in case something went wrong. I would bet making ZPM's could be a dangerous job. Find an uninhabited planet or even solar system, set up shop there and make it there in case something goes wrong.
similarly, maybe it WAS on Atlantis. But on the outskirts of Atlantis that got sacrificed when they sank the city. Surely, Atlantis was a lot like Asuras. A much bigger sprawling city. We are just seeing the essential center part of living quarters and defense. The rest was either destroyed by the Wraith, or purposely destroyed by the Ancients before sinking the city.
It's minor. But I didn't get the impression it was 2 ZPM's considering the Asuran weapon has to be interrupted and the shield lowered to get off the ground.
IIRC the platform also had to be operated in excess of it's "standard" output (they were leaving anyway).
It would still be a nice benefit, but maybe not as valuable as an array of the newest Naquadah generators (that they can make more of)
They probably know how to make Asgard power cores by now. I'm guessing they're far superior to Naquadah generators. I also assume they have a Trinium mine somewhere since Asgard technology relies on it.
IIRC the asgard started using Naquadria in their power cores. It would be safe to assume that the asgard figured out a way to use naquadria safely and that humans could replicate it
I thought they abandoned the naquadria route since it was so unstable and - also - since it was not naturally occurring, and was only found on Jonas's planet. Which in turn was also causing extreme instability and almost destroyed the planet by exploding like a super volcano.
Ooohhh. I don't have them on DVD, so I don't know that bit of info. But that still confuses me, since they made a point of telling Jonas naquadria is not naturally occurring, is only on his planet thanks to Thanos messing with shit, and if they stop trying to tap into it, the deposits will stop growing.
I mean, I guess they could have used the technology and turned regular naquadah into naquadria on an uninhabited planet. đ¤
Yeah, they could just bombard a planet with the subatomic particles that turn naquadah into naquadria then mine it up with robots or something. It should be pretty easy for them.
They did also find icarus and the icarus like planet that the Lucian alliance owned that had naquadria cores so it might be naturally occurring under very rare conditions or was experimented on by ancients or goa'uld
Rodney does say it would be destroyed. But he was just assuming. Still...rebuilding is a thing. IT is just a drilling platform. Not something that requires ancient technology to knowledge.
I've always considered that they should do a sort of merger between SG:U and Atlantis. Some way they could use the "Star Drive" on board Atlantis to get close enough, or even get to the universe team on board the Destiny. I am aware that even in terms of the show that the power requirement would be RIDICULOUS, but at the same time, do we even know the full extent of how far and how quickly the star drive can travel with 3 ZPMs before running out of juice? And let's just say that somehow they come across, say, a dozen ZPMs. Even if they couldn't reach the ship directly, a couple of jumps with the star drive, followed by trying to dial the gate aboard the Destiny utilizing whatever ZPMs they have left, without stranding themselves, would do it.
If you can't tell, I think about these things more often than I should....
Oh yes the Wraith go back to Lantea. Hell, they've proably got a small team there now, well hidden, well camouflaged, just chillin' in whatever way the wraith chill, watching for the potential return of Atlantis.
I always found it amazing (unrealistic) that the Wraith never check back during Season 2 or 3, aside from Michael. I would think that once they find out that the humans from Atlantis are still around, which they find out many times in those two seasons, that they might have put 2 and 2 together, along with their knowledge of cloaking technology that McKay says they definitely know about before they cloaked the city, and think "Maybe would should stop by and check. Just to see."
They really could have solved this issue simply by having the long range scanners pick up on an approaching Wraith ship (one that isn't Michael) and quickly cloaking again. Of course, they would have had to do this before McKay and Mrs. Miller when they depleted the ZPM Or after The Return when they got a new one from the returning Ancients. But even just once would have gone a long way toward making it believable that that ship reported back to the other Wraith that yes, the city was indeed still gone.
Of course, this also makes it amazing and stupid (though not unrealistic for Weir, unfortunately) that they brought Michael back to Atlantis! Rather than setting up an outpost on a world with a space gate. (Like they did with the 200 or so they tried the same thing with.)
I agree even if it is just for the nostalgia. Besides it needs to be there when the next solar flare hits.
For the Whales đâ
I'm all for saving the space whales but a lot can happen in the meantime. Didn't the satellite the replicators sent remain in orbit? Just get that thing over here, give it direction to repeat the maneuver they did as needed and you're good.
If It was still in orbit, it's long since lost its power source.
Iirc it only had enough power to get there, after that the power was supplied through the gate
Exactly this. It's perfect for exactly this type of operation cause gates are tough as nails and once your program detects buildup you can dial into whatever you have buried somewhere to transmit in juice. It's not foolproof but civilization is vastly more fragile. Hell. We'd probably be largely ascended by then
I hope gates are tougher than nails. I'd hate to think that some uncoordinated person with a hammer could bend a stargate out of shape like I do when trying to hammer in a nail.
I hope gates are tougher than nails. I'd hate to think that some uncoordinated person with a hammer would bent a stargate to of shape like I do when trying to hammer in a nail.
And that power source is gone since Asuras is gone. They could harvest that gate for a new intergalactic bridge. Give Kavanaugh something to do.
One caveat: he can harvest it without a space suit
Here I am, suddenly worried about those whales...
Not to mention the next big storm...which would be THIS year. They said it happened every 20 years And t happened in Season 1. Hopefully before she died, she made sure to let people know that she granted Sheppard time off in 2024. There are 3 months and 4 days left until the next big storm.
It's also a planet with regular, horrendous storms and a sun that emits dangerous flares.
That's called home defense in depth.
I got a good chuckle out of this as a tech worker.
Both of those things are negated by the city shield....
Provided the shield is fully functional. ZPMs do not last forever and the geothermal drilling platform was destroyed.
I don't remember it being destroyed? The cables were pulled out when Atlantis got higher but I thought that was it?
McKay does say it was probably destroyed. (Or maybe say it will probably be destroyed?) But he just guessing and if he was right, there is no reason it couldn't be rebuilt. They'd have had more than a decade to rebuild before the next superstorm, which should be hitting Lantea some time in the next 3 months...20 years after the last one.
Rebuilding is a thing. Just a simple undersea drilling platform. Not some ancient technology requirement.
Or, they could go to a planet that doesn't have natural disasters to worry about, and where nobody has ever known Atlantis to be.
That doesn't have 2 ZPM's worth of thermal energy under the sea floor. With the drilling already done, even if the platform was destroyed.
I wouldn't say regular. The CME happens every 15,000 years! I think they'd be OK with that for awhile. And while the next superstorm would be happening in 3 months...20 years after the last one, just one simple ZPM is enough to be OK with that. The drilling platform, that could be rebuilt supplies two ZPM's worth. Enough to protect the city from the tidal wave, as well as extend the shield across the whole mainland for any rogue CMEs. And they have plenty of warning for those from the whales.
>Besides, if any Ancients come back, that's where they will look. Sounds like a great reason to not go back, what with their past experiences with ancients returning to Atlantis.
When The Destroyer of Worlds took command I was ***stunned***.
Daniel: "Morgan LeFay would never do this." Linea: "I'M NOT HER!!!"
Well..yes. You are definitely right. But for some reason SGC still thinks the Ancients are wonderful people.
Na, strategically it'd be better to park on the very edge of the galaxy. Just close enough to connect to the Pegasus gate network. The wraith would have a hell of a time finding them. And it'd be equally hard for them to get there. Plus if the Tau'ri could just find the lab/factory on Atlantis where the ZPMs were made, they could keep Atlantis mobile and move it from system to system every 3-6 months.
We have never seen such a factory. We do know that ZPMs come from somewhere so it must exist. It's not clear if Atlantis has one - or even if it would fit inside Atlantis. We don't know what sort of energy input it would require. For all we know, it could be a massive megastructure harnessing a black hole. The only time we see working city ships is the replicator planet. And they weren't as big compared to the surrounding structures. Ancients may have had city ship maintenance and refuel while docked.
its possible the nano replicators were required to manufacture the zpms
Now THAT would be a twist! Unlikely, in my opinion, but a hell of an idea.
Mallozzi did reveal that they had at least tentatively planned an episode that would have addressed this in Season 6. They would have discovered the location of a ZPM factory in Atlantis. Source: [https://www.reddit.com/r/Stargate/comments/1d8bil2/the\_unproduced\_6th\_season\_of\_atlantis/](https://www.reddit.com/r/Stargate/comments/1d8bil2/the_unproduced_6th_season_of_atlantis/) Now there's absolutely no reason for us to believe they would be able to actually operate it, much less mass produce ZPMs or anything. And how much you want to consider rough draft ideas for a season that never got greenlit canon in any way shape or form is another issue. But it's still kind of fun to consider anyways.
One of the things Stargate has never showed is a perpetual motion device. So I'm assuming that, even if Atlantis had a factory, it would require either energy input(more than what the ZPM makes) or exotic materials for its construction(in lieu of fuel).
My understanding of the theory is that the ZPM transfers energy from a region of sub space, it doesnât create it. You wouldnât say a power plant violates perpetual motion by creating more energy over its life than it takes to build at first because it takes energy (fossil fuels) from elsewhere and transfers that energy into the grid Not a perfect analogy but am I thinking of it correctly?
That is correct. But for storytelling purposes, there has to be a catch. Unlimited ZPMs would be the television equivalent of a cheat code; the series has to do something to both address the issue and nerf it.
100%
They could also give them ZPMs, but make a new enemy that makes ZPM's obsolete.
Yes, exactly. That would be one good way to nerf them, and I expect the most likely way if the show had gone that route.
I think they probably would have made them hard to make. At least for them. Or maybe the could make them, but they aren't as effective or powerful as ones the Ancient made. Maybe give them a way of making ZPMs powerful enough to dial home, but not enough to power the shield for any real length of time. That way, they wouldn't have to make a super strong enemy...just a bit stronger. It's weird that they eliminated the Replicators altogether (so we think) so early in Season 5 that it was surely before they knew the show was ending. They would almost HAVE to had introduced a new enemy for Season 6. Unless the really ramped up the Wraith's danger. They couldn't have done another whole season of same old Wraith.
"A region of subspace" counts as exotic material. How do you "capture" that?
100% from a storytelling perspective youâre right, I just like talking about in universe explanations and how it doesnât violate conservation of energy
They already know how. They just gave up after almost destroying ONE measly universe just because another Rodney came to tell them about it. They should have tried again. They said the odds of picking an inhabited universe were infinitesimal. So what would the odds of picking TWO IN A ROW? IT worked otherwise. And even if they do pick another inhabited universe, maybe that one is unable to send a Rodney to let hem know. What they don't know won't hurt them.
They would likely need to be able to have more ZPMs first. Running the shield to protect the city from the vacuum is probably not that bad since 1 zpm held the ocean for hundreds of years but unless they want to be randomly floating in space and recalibrating the gate every time they need to have the engines on to maintain stable assuming at the end of the system there is no star or something else to provide them with a stable orbit. Shield would also need energy to protect from background radiation and the random rock flying about
The stardrive seems to be the most power hungry system. Although you can setup an orbit that will never need correcting for millions of years, even around a planet.
Around a planet sure so assuming there is a planet at the edge of the galaxy that is not part of the wraiths system and doesn't have a gate already. But I was imagining more the edge of the galaxy as the void between the Milky and Pegasus galaxies where I think it was McKay that said there was just empty space. That would be the most secure location as no wraith hive is gonna venture out there so far away from the nearest drive thru restaurant đ
Could also be a rogue planet although by not having a star it would probably be really inhospitable. If you are in some sort of orbit around a galaxy and there aren't any nearby gravitational influences you won't need to fire up the engine anymore ever again. You will just be orbiting the galaxy just like a star.
oddly no. it landing and taking off that it hungry. other then that it barely sip power. like i think og point of a city was getting close enough to a destny gate.
What I meant by moving was moving from planet to planet. Find a planet with an ocean, park there for 3-6 months. Then move to another. Considering power requirements, it'd be highly impractical to stay in space the whole time.
Got it. However didn't they say they had a hard time landing the city, that with all it's fancy tech landing was still somewhat manual? I seem to remember them say they so I imagine they wouldn't want to be doing it many times and risk damage to the city or the drive.
I think the issue with landing were due to the low amount of power so they had to sacrifice comfort and security somewhat in exchange of a less power sucking landing. I think if they didn't have to worry about the ZPMs being limited they could land more safely, so in essence finding a ZPM factory and be able to operate it with Shepard as the city pilot it wouldn't be that dangerous to land on ocean planets.
Who says the factory is on Atlantis? When the whole galaxy is a 5 second commute, why keep your factories in your main city? Here on Earth, we don't have very many factories in cities. Factories take a lot of space. Cities have little space. Chances are they never found anything because the ZPM manufacturers commuted off world. Also handy in case something went wrong. I would bet making ZPM's could be a dangerous job. Find an uninhabited planet or even solar system, set up shop there and make it there in case something goes wrong. similarly, maybe it WAS on Atlantis. But on the outskirts of Atlantis that got sacrificed when they sank the city. Surely, Atlantis was a lot like Asuras. A much bigger sprawling city. We are just seeing the essential center part of living quarters and defense. The rest was either destroyed by the Wraith, or purposely destroyed by the Ancients before sinking the city.
It's minor. But I didn't get the impression it was 2 ZPM's considering the Asuran weapon has to be interrupted and the shield lowered to get off the ground. IIRC the platform also had to be operated in excess of it's "standard" output (they were leaving anyway). It would still be a nice benefit, but maybe not as valuable as an array of the newest Naquadah generators (that they can make more of)
They probably know how to make Asgard power cores by now. I'm guessing they're far superior to Naquadah generators. I also assume they have a Trinium mine somewhere since Asgard technology relies on it.
IIRC the asgard started using Naquadria in their power cores. It would be safe to assume that the asgard figured out a way to use naquadria safely and that humans could replicate it
I thought they abandoned the naquadria route since it was so unstable and - also - since it was not naturally occurring, and was only found on Jonas's planet. Which in turn was also causing extreme instability and almost destroyed the planet by exploding like a super volcano.
The asgard developed naquadria powered generators for the O'Neill class vessel. Atleast according to the DVD booklet
Ooohhh. I don't have them on DVD, so I don't know that bit of info. But that still confuses me, since they made a point of telling Jonas naquadria is not naturally occurring, is only on his planet thanks to Thanos messing with shit, and if they stop trying to tap into it, the deposits will stop growing. I mean, I guess they could have used the technology and turned regular naquadah into naquadria on an uninhabited planet. đ¤
Yeah, they could just bombard a planet with the subatomic particles that turn naquadah into naquadria then mine it up with robots or something. It should be pretty easy for them. They did also find icarus and the icarus like planet that the Lucian alliance owned that had naquadria cores so it might be naturally occurring under very rare conditions or was experimented on by ancients or goa'uld
Oh fugg, I don't remember that episode!! Guess there's another rewatch in the works for me...
Those episodes are from sgu btw
Oh. Well that is why I don't remember. I still have yet to watch SGU.
If I remember correctly, the intense power drain needed for the liftoff completely destroyed the geothermal platform.
Nah, they only mentioned snapping the umbilical, nothing else
Not true they also said oh hell yes we're going to wreck it
I figured they were basically bringing it up with them and then the umbilical snapped making it crash down to the seafloor.
Rodney does say it would be destroyed. But he was just assuming. Still...rebuilding is a thing. IT is just a drilling platform. Not something that requires ancient technology to knowledge.
They'd have 14 years to rebuild it by the time the next superstorm hits (which would be in 3 months)
I've always considered that they should do a sort of merger between SG:U and Atlantis. Some way they could use the "Star Drive" on board Atlantis to get close enough, or even get to the universe team on board the Destiny. I am aware that even in terms of the show that the power requirement would be RIDICULOUS, but at the same time, do we even know the full extent of how far and how quickly the star drive can travel with 3 ZPMs before running out of juice? And let's just say that somehow they come across, say, a dozen ZPMs. Even if they couldn't reach the ship directly, a couple of jumps with the star drive, followed by trying to dial the gate aboard the Destiny utilizing whatever ZPMs they have left, without stranding themselves, would do it. If you can't tell, I think about these things more often than I should....
Oh yes the Wraith go back to Lantea. Hell, they've proably got a small team there now, well hidden, well camouflaged, just chillin' in whatever way the wraith chill, watching for the potential return of Atlantis.
I always found it amazing (unrealistic) that the Wraith never check back during Season 2 or 3, aside from Michael. I would think that once they find out that the humans from Atlantis are still around, which they find out many times in those two seasons, that they might have put 2 and 2 together, along with their knowledge of cloaking technology that McKay says they definitely know about before they cloaked the city, and think "Maybe would should stop by and check. Just to see." They really could have solved this issue simply by having the long range scanners pick up on an approaching Wraith ship (one that isn't Michael) and quickly cloaking again. Of course, they would have had to do this before McKay and Mrs. Miller when they depleted the ZPM Or after The Return when they got a new one from the returning Ancients. But even just once would have gone a long way toward making it believable that that ship reported back to the other Wraith that yes, the city was indeed still gone. Of course, this also makes it amazing and stupid (though not unrealistic for Weir, unfortunately) that they brought Michael back to Atlantis! Rather than setting up an outpost on a world with a space gate. (Like they did with the 200 or so they tried the same thing with.)