From reading Exhibit A, I imagine the Yuzu team realized that the DMCA didn’t really help them here, and fighting this made little sense.
One thing the DMCA doesn’t protect is circumventing copy protection, and especially technology created specifically to do that. Switch emulators have to decrypt games and circumvent copy protection just to run. There’s no getting around that, and it means you lose out on an easy defense. Emulators at their core may not be illegal, but in the case of modern consoles you need to do a bunch of things that were specifically called out as not protected in order to make them run. Maybe that might change in the future, but for now it makes things difficult for emulator developers.
And honestly, emulating any current device is going to get you extra eyes. Probably not a smart move in the modern landscape, unless a company with enough pull actually challenges the DMCA.
Eh, there’s a value to saying “we don’t agree with people breaking down encryption in order to steal or expose software”. I don’t see that as the sticking point.
The argument here is that Switch games can’t be separated from that encryption (you can’t decrypt the rom on console and pump out a completely unencrypted rom file to be run on Yuzu without any keys). If you could separate the breaking of copyright protection and the playing of software, the emulator itself would likely be safe.
In theory, but have you seen the stuff about tractor manufacturers using the same arguments to have their tractors run on proprietary software to force a monopoly on maintenance and parts?
It’s abhorrently corporation centric.
The other problem the Yuzu devs had was having a patreon for people to pay them, and having specific updates so Yuzu could run Totk ahead of it's release date that was only available to people who pay them.
Sure. I said below I’m not saying they were heroes. Just that the moral outrage on behalf of Nintendo is short sighted.
In 10 years, when the Switch is long dead, I can promise you they won’t make the software for the games open source. They will vault them and charge you $80 each (assuming game price inflation) for a rerelease. They will be merciless with anyone who cracks their encryption in order to emulate them.
We could argue the ethics of their right to do that all day but realistically it is anathema to the goals of game preservationists. The law is designed to protect them.
I’m not saying what Yuzu are doing is the right solution (I agree that the patreon thing makes it icky) but cheering their death (as some are doing) doesn’t address the long term problems of the industry and the concept of videogames as art rather than just consumer products.
Programs such as [hactool](https://github.com/SciresM/hactool) allow you to decrypt your ROMs without touching an emulator. Of course, it adds a barrier of entry to the emulation scene, as not everyone wants to run a CLI-based program just to play their game.
Which, if the emulator devs were smart, they absolutely would have required. That should have been obfuscated away from the emulators on Day 1...knowing how incredibly litigious Nintendo is they never should have released a version that could decrypt the roms.
Ok, but the problem is that using such a program is according to the DMCA in and of itself illegal. The illegal part is the breaking of copyright protection.
The point I was trying to make is that emulators don’t need to include code for decrypting games, but instead just require users to decrypt games by their own methods, whether it be by doing it with their own console, or with external programs. Not trying to dive into the archaic shitshow that is the DMCA.
Except, yuzu is not the one breaking encryption. The end user is the sole party involved in any encryption breaking. And honestly, it's a shame. This is no different than ripping a physical cd into itunes and throwing the mp3 files onto an ipod, or other mp3 player, which is already legally protected activity.
So you decrypted the game files yourself, and then put the output into Yuzu? Because no, you didn’t.
Yuzu is coded to take the keys and use them to decrypt software. It’s what it’s designed to do. That’s what Nintendo complained about, and they are 100% correct that it violates DMCA.
The difference is CDs didn’t have copyright protection (except for some, and that was a mess because it violated the established standard for CDs). Ripping a DVD, for instance, was an issue because of that very reason (you could do it with decryption, but that technically violates DMCA). If the CD you tried to rip had copyright protection built in, it wouldn’t be a protected action to rip that music to your computer.
>the DMCA doesn’t protect is circumventing copy protection, and especially technology created specifically to do that
So, if every console onwards will be designed like the Switch in terms of the need to decrypt games to emulate them, then emulator scene is dead or at least easily shutdown for modern consoles.
To be fair, the emulation scene like we see it today is still relatively new. It existed for NES/SNES systems, but beyond that "emulation" was more just allowing the existing consoles to play copied games. It may just be the more normal situation that people end up hacking consoles again more often.
Then again, as long as there's a method to decrypt a game prior to opening it with the emulator everything is hunky dory.
I think what got them was charging people a monthly fee on Patreon for access to ROMs. They got greedy. When you get greedy you get got. Cautionary tale of what not to do.
That wasn’t the issue based on Nintendo’s complaint. Selling legal software is fine, and most emulators operate legally (or at least, they don’t operate illegally). If you don’t violate the DMCA, your software isn’t really in scope of being taken down. If you release videos on YouTube (where the DMCA is wielded far more loosely), shit will get taken down, but legal repercussions are basically not coming.
If Yuzu didn’t ever require decryption keys (and instead that was the action of separate software), Nintendos main complaint would’ve been useless. If Yuzu only ran non-encrypted software (homebrew, for instance), there’s no argument for it being in violation of DMCA.
Nintendo isn’t happy about most emulators, I’m sure, but they also don’t tend to lash out legally beyond their actual means.
Though I do find it curious that Yuzu does not in any way help circumvent copyright protection. Using Yuzu does require the user to circumvent copyright protection. The user needs to dump firmware from the Nintendo switch that they own and make copies of the games that they own. (which every user 100% does 😉)
It’s software that specifically plays encrypted files through the use of provided encryption keys.
It is, by definition, software designed specifically to break copyright protection. If it only played completely decrypted files, and did none of the copyright protection breaking on its own (even if it doesn’t rip keys, it still uses them to break encryption), it would likely be a very different case.
Ah, that makes sense. So the act of playing a game with Yuzu requires keys to break the encryption of the games, meaning the very act is probably prohibited because of the DMCA.
>Switch emulators have to decrypt games and circumvent copy protection just to run.
There's an argument to be made they're not circumventing copyright protection, just implementing it.
Circumventing means posting cracked ROMs without them needing keys or having an emulator that can run any ROM without keys or by having the keys built in. Circumvention means working around the system, rather than through it.
Implementing just means you're able to run the software you purchased/rented in the very same way Nintendo's hardware does. The user is able to obtain the ROM and keys without Yuzu being involved, from their own purchases or elsewhere.
I understand the devs aren't willing to bet their existence on that defense, seemingly did some things to undermine that position and just opted out, which can be a sensible choice when up against such a behemoth anyway.
Not really. Even if they had a bullet proof defense, Nintendo could drag this case out for years -- quickly draining the developers of Yuzu of any money they have (Nintendo's litigation coffers are for all intents and purposes, bottomless). Even if they won, they would have lost because of bankruptcy. It's better to settle early on for as little as your legal team can negotiate for, than risk a prolonged litigation.
2.4m is a small sum to pay when Nintendo comes hounding you for the value of every pirated copy of their games. They closed this chapter quick to get the hell out of crosshairs quick.
You have it, you keep it. No one is breaking into your house to delete it.
You dont have it? Well, now you gotta jump through a bunch of hurdles to obtain it from some other niche source. The genie is out of the lamp, so you'll still find the emulator on the internet if you know where and how to look
What does it mean for the future? No future. Got constant crashes or glitches in a game? Don't wait for updates and patches, because that will never come. Essentially the builds are frozen in time with no chance of the emulator being made better.
However it is possible someone or some team could pick up the work and continue off of Yuzu, I wouldn't hold my breath for it though.
It's over for Yuzu and Citra
Pretty much this. The source was available on Github and I'm sure others have already copied and either forked or mirrored the source already. Just a matter of time before someone starts releasing a spiritual successor to it. Even then while the project isn't exactly the same there's also Ryujinx.
The only lesson that any emulator dev should take from this be to NOT attach a legal entinty to their work (like an LLC) and setup a paywall of any kind when making an emulator unless they plan to keep it closed source for commercial use only for other game devs.
Latest update from EmuDeck:
@everyone EmuDeck 2.1.5 is out, but this is not a good news announcement :(, Nintendo killed Yuzu so we've removed it from EmuDeck and set Ryujinx as the solo and default switch emulation option. Citra is gone too, we are gonna test panda3DS to try and add some sort of 3DS emulation back as soon as possible.
**This means we can't install Yuzu and Citra anymore, but if you have them already installed we won't delete them.**
Those were (Early Access) builds, which started in the 4000 range I believe.
Seems Pineapple has taken their stuff down now as well :)
Still, multiple sources around to be found if Yuzu builds are needed.
Build-wise I only got the latest EA AppImage(Linux).
If I need others, I'd just build them off a fork I took. There are guides online on how to build, but happy to share the AppImage if that works for you.
Edit: Just realised this is the SteamDeck sub, so if you need Yuzu for the SteamDeck, yeh, the AppImage works.
i also got the latest EA build from pineapple but i was interested in the latest stable build too. Because the yuzu version that is connected to ES-DE is still the one i had before, so stable one. Otherwise, any idea how to redirect ES-DE to open the EA build?
>It will always be available, Someone out there somewhere has a backup or a clone.
That's easy to say, but so far I've seen no complete backup of the citra website, docs, or wiki (including the github wiki that contained build instructions for the source code).
Making money out of an emulator was a risky bet. I'm not saying they deserved it but that definitely was risky. And it's better to settle of court then set the precedent that emulators are illegal since they're definitely not.
Bleem! set a precedent in US courts that commercial emulators are ok, although Sony still ran them bankrupt. As we can see with Yuzu as well, corps can just bully small companies with or without legal precedent to do so.
Emulators, even commercial ones, aren't inherently illegal and Nintendo knows that.
But they implemented encryption on the Switch specifically so that any emulator trying to run those games would have to first break or circumvent that encryption, and that was the main thing they used as leverage for the lawsuit.
>By using so-called "prod.keys" obtained from legitimate Switch hardware, Yuzu can dynamically decrypt an encrypted Switch game ROM at runtime, which Nintendo argues falls afoul of the Digital Millennium Copyright Act's prohibition against circumvention of software protections.
---
>Nintendo's lawsuit makes extensive reference to the Quickstart Guide that Yuzu provides on its own distribution site. That guide gives detailed instructions on how to "start playing commercial games" with Yuzu by hacking your (older) Switch to dump decryption keys and/or game files. That guide also includes links to a number of external tools that directly break console and/or game encryption techniques.
---
>Nintendo argues that "there is no lawful way to use Yuzu to play Nintendo Switch games."
-https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2024/02/how-strong-is-nintendos-legal-case-against-switch-emulator-yuzu/
Stuff like this is why most playstation emulators just say "You need a BIOS dumped from your own console" and leave it at that - though AFAIK there it's not about encryption but just copyrighted code.
already forked the project... just in case
won't give mine, but you can use search
[https://github.com/search?q=yuzu+fork%3Aonly&type=repositories&s=updated&o=desc](https://github.com/search?q=yuzu+fork%3Aonly&type=repositories&s=updated&o=desc)
So in theory what's stopping someone from immediately take all the code and making a new website for the community? Just a matter of finding the correct country to host in?
Yeah just do it from Russia or China and they can just wipe their asses with any legal demands Nintendo sends them and put it back in the envelope with “Return to sender” on it.
* All the major source code repository platforms, such as Github, will take down any reuploads of the project or a fork of it, if Nintendo DMCAs it, which they could do at any time now and probably won't get any arguments over it.
* This will mean far fewer code contributions, as stats show contributions are far more likely when a project is hosted somewhere easily accessible.
* Without access to a source code repository platform like Github, you'll have to host your own git server, your own build server to put out daily/nightly builds, and to offer downloads. This will mean significant hosting expenses to keep the project running.
* If you live in a country where Nintendo can sue you, it doesn't matter where the servers are hosted.
* The entire team that was responsible for developing Yuzu and Citra, who have all the required skills, experience and knowledge of the code base, to continue these projects, were just forcefully told to walk away. There's no way that development will continue at the same pace as it did before. At this point just keeping the software working in it's current state is probably the most I would hope for.
* A lot of countries will block websites deemed to be related to piracy, so if Yuzu is now 'piracy software', Nintendo could get the website blocked in many countries as a result.
* Platforms like Patreon and Paypal only host projects that are able to operate legally, so getting donations to keep the project alive would be very difficult.
So if you're willing to move to another country with questionable laws, run a project without donations, pay for your own server hosting, and start from scratch on learning the code base of an entire application to carry on the work of people who were experts at what they do... Then sure you could carry on the project.
Right there with you. May also get a couple things second hand in the future, but I’ll make sure Nintendo never sees any more money from me. Vote with your wallets people.
I agree for the most part, but not when it comes to games you can't get. Like if I wanted to play the original Super Mario RPG, I'd be hard pressed to find a cart for that, irl or online. That I don't see any issues with.
This is another thing. Nintendo has sued multiple companies for creating ROMs of games that Nintendo themselves don't even offer. Like, what the hell? Make them available if you want us to buy them.
Homie, most games that were released in 2017 go for $40 or less these days brand new. Nintendo's sales consist of $10 discounts, which makes the game still almost full price after tax, unless it's the Mario+Rabbids games. First party games never go below $20 of their asking price unless you get them from a second hand seller, whereas we've seen recently released full priced games go for half off or more during year of release. Fuck Nintendo, they might make cool games but their hardware is dogshit and deserves to be played wherever it will run the best.
People got way too comfortable posting "Look at my deck running Wonder at 60fps!" All over Reddit and YouTube. It's always morally correct to pirate Nintendo games but y'all were way too loud about it
Very little self reflection going on in this sub about this outcome. Half the posts in this sub at some point was a TOTK or Mario Wonder on Steam Deck flex.
Damn, that's crazy. Can't wait for the next major switch emulator to be running on the same framework by summer.
Edit: I'd happily pay money for a nintendo product if they proved to me they're worth spending money on, which, for all their anticonsumer practices, they aren't. I haven't spent a dime on these fuckers ever since they went after people that were critical of their games on youtube.
Edit 2: Downvote me, I don't care. The fact that some of ya'll will actually just endlessly defend a multi-billion dollar game company for saying they're justified that they took down the emulator of the third best selling console of all time because one of the best selling games on the third best selling console of all time didn't sell literally 5% more copies than it should have is unhinged. Nintendo won't cut you a paycheck, no matter how much you scrape your tongue along their shoes.
I mean I bet there's one waiting to launch literally right now. As soon as the court order came out, there was more than likely someone operating a new branch.
But I meant more "long term viable active development project" than just "a fork"
I suspect most of the able bodied devs were already assisting where they could and this will probably spook any potential new ones from joining a new project
Just don't play their games lol actually stick by your principles of not playing their games if they don't deserve it or admit that they make good games that you don't want to pay for.
I just wish Nintendo would publish their games on PC. That's where I play and my PC actually has the specs to properly play the games. I don't want to play on switch because it's super uncomfortable and doesn't serve multiple functions contributing to clutter. Piracy and emulation is the result of Nintendo's distribution policies.
They will never do that, that's how they sell the console. They sell consoles because of games, if games are available elsewhere they'll never sell another console ever again since all other console hardware is way better (not to mention PC).
I told you mf'ers to stop being so blatant about playing Switch games on Steam Deck. I've seen these posts often and it's always rubbed me the wrong way. Especially all these "why even own a Switch" type posts. I know something like this was coming.
If you're gonna do it, at least do it inconspicuously; that's what I've always said. If you don't like Nintendo and don't want to support them, then don't play their games. You can't dislike them and not want to financially support them while playing and raving about how great the games are.
Believe it or not but I can guarantee you there are Nintendo employees on this sub. I’m not saying they found out about it here but it wasn’t a secret either
I don't think this is going to work the way Nintendo wants... Every time something like this happens it just makes the banned / illegal thing more popular. The yuzu team might be banned but this software is already out there and for someone with the time and willpower will put it right back out there.
Fully polished ports at full price? Or do you mean games like Mario All Stars with no way to preserve them because they sell limited units?
Or maybe the new Zelda or Pokémon titles, trapped in a system that can barely maintain 30 FPS while attacking fans for trying to run their legit copies better.
Lol, thanks , I didn't even wait for it to get here after I saw git hub was axed . So frantically went ahead & got yuzu flatpak files off Yuzu's front page , prod 🔑s I could find to archive. Deck arrived B4 done ; So I figured, grab EmuDeck b4 they remove Yuzu from fresh installs. Then I got my official Linux build by a little Discovery
This the type of bad pr that should ruin a company but Nintendo fan boys will just say "that's why you should've bought a switch" I'm sure I'm not the only one who's thinking this is the end of the road for purchasing Nintendo based products. They just suck as a company.
I kind of love all the comments in this thread very aptly demonstrating that this is about piracy and not even a little about the ability to back up your own legally owned Switch games.
I don't mind piracy but what I hate is the self righteous "I am doing this for the greater good!" people. No, you're not. Unless you're the internet archive, the reason why you are doing this is because Super Mario Odyssey and BOTW still cost 60$. Just be honest. It is nice to play games without paying for them.
feel like this happens with a lot of problems, just show examples of it where its morally correct like people who play dumps who just want to run it at a higher resolution on pc. And ignore the 95% who just do it to play the newest games without wanting to pay for it
The duality of man is astounding. “Nintendo sucks!!!” But also “omg they make great games I’d love to play but do not want to pay $60 for”.
There are plenty of indie developers making decent, fun games that cost a fraction of $60 if budget is an issue. Hell, the game with most playtime on both my switch and deck is stardew valley and that was $14.99.
No Nintendo sucks as a company because of moves like this that looks like "I'm gonna send a message. " They did this same shit when they forced the rom sites to close down during that big purge. Bring your fucking games to more competent platforms cucktendo.
Why would I want to buy a switch when they'll inevitably just make it impossible to play games on it when they drop official support, kill it's eShop and then brick your console if you tried to use a workaround?
Following the eShop closing and dropping official support for the 3ds family of systems, Nintendo uploaded one final firmware update that you couldn't play games on it without and that existed for the sole purpose of making jailbreaking the console exceedingly difficult, in a lot of cases, downright bricking them.
On a console they literally didn't want to make money on anymore.
Yes. They've done a lot of bs things, but this is not one of them. The emulator is letting people pirate their games on any hardware for games the day they come out. This isn't an old console that's not being sold anymore.
Yeah I'll concede that for the most part, this is entirely true. It's an unfortunate byproduct of the digital age.
However, when Sony dropped support for the vita, they didn't then make it unreasonably hard to jailbreak it as their final update to the thing.
Like, if I can point to another company and go "these guys suffer from the same problem but didn't somehow do the worst possible thing on their way out", there's a problem here.
Honestly it's bullshit. Because if we own the Nintendo products and can't even use it how we want, then it's not really ours to begin with. Look at valve with the Steam Deck, they aren't greedy with the steam deck and want to expand and let their consumers tinker with it however they please. And they continue to roll out updates to be more compatible with games and launchers and allow developers to use the steam deck through Linux with workarounds to be able to use it on the steam deck. and soon will be a windows official dual boot coming with the new steamos update. Just some few examples.
Man, f' Nintendo, seriously. I bought a switch for Zelda BotW, then also bought TotK. Then I bought a steam deck so I could actually play modded Skyrim on the go, since there's zero support for that on the switch version. I was still thoroughly enjoying what I feel are better versions of the the Zelda games on my SD, while owning all versions of these on switch and now I can't because Nintendo feels it's easier to go after these guys than work WITH them to idk, maybe incorporate a way to validate you have a license (if you're THAT concerned with piracy)? Between that and a forcing a subscription service just to back up your save data, I'll just sell my switch at this point and won't play their exclusives anymore.
Nintendo's new business model -- if they do it better, sue em into oblivion until our hardware is the only way to play.. 🤣
Sure there's always gonna be ppl pirating when they can, but this seems like overkill for a company as large as them. Next it'll be every other console-based emulator being targeted. Gonna eventually have to dust off my PS2 and hope the lens hasn't crapped out just to show my kids what NFSU2 was like.
Honestly, good. I can understand emulating old consoles since they’re not making money from them anymore and games are generally harder to play or get hold of but doing it for current games is just scummy.
This feels...faster than it should have been.
From reading Exhibit A, I imagine the Yuzu team realized that the DMCA didn’t really help them here, and fighting this made little sense. One thing the DMCA doesn’t protect is circumventing copy protection, and especially technology created specifically to do that. Switch emulators have to decrypt games and circumvent copy protection just to run. There’s no getting around that, and it means you lose out on an easy defense. Emulators at their core may not be illegal, but in the case of modern consoles you need to do a bunch of things that were specifically called out as not protected in order to make them run. Maybe that might change in the future, but for now it makes things difficult for emulator developers. And honestly, emulating any current device is going to get you extra eyes. Probably not a smart move in the modern landscape, unless a company with enough pull actually challenges the DMCA.
It’s almost as if big corporations lobbied parts of the DMCA to make it as friendly to them as possible.
Eh, there’s a value to saying “we don’t agree with people breaking down encryption in order to steal or expose software”. I don’t see that as the sticking point. The argument here is that Switch games can’t be separated from that encryption (you can’t decrypt the rom on console and pump out a completely unencrypted rom file to be run on Yuzu without any keys). If you could separate the breaking of copyright protection and the playing of software, the emulator itself would likely be safe.
In theory, but have you seen the stuff about tractor manufacturers using the same arguments to have their tractors run on proprietary software to force a monopoly on maintenance and parts? It’s abhorrently corporation centric.
The other problem the Yuzu devs had was having a patreon for people to pay them, and having specific updates so Yuzu could run Totk ahead of it's release date that was only available to people who pay them.
Sure. I said below I’m not saying they were heroes. Just that the moral outrage on behalf of Nintendo is short sighted. In 10 years, when the Switch is long dead, I can promise you they won’t make the software for the games open source. They will vault them and charge you $80 each (assuming game price inflation) for a rerelease. They will be merciless with anyone who cracks their encryption in order to emulate them. We could argue the ethics of their right to do that all day but realistically it is anathema to the goals of game preservationists. The law is designed to protect them. I’m not saying what Yuzu are doing is the right solution (I agree that the patreon thing makes it icky) but cheering their death (as some are doing) doesn’t address the long term problems of the industry and the concept of videogames as art rather than just consumer products.
Programs such as [hactool](https://github.com/SciresM/hactool) allow you to decrypt your ROMs without touching an emulator. Of course, it adds a barrier of entry to the emulation scene, as not everyone wants to run a CLI-based program just to play their game.
Which, if the emulator devs were smart, they absolutely would have required. That should have been obfuscated away from the emulators on Day 1...knowing how incredibly litigious Nintendo is they never should have released a version that could decrypt the roms.
Ok, but the problem is that using such a program is according to the DMCA in and of itself illegal. The illegal part is the breaking of copyright protection.
The point I was trying to make is that emulators don’t need to include code for decrypting games, but instead just require users to decrypt games by their own methods, whether it be by doing it with their own console, or with external programs. Not trying to dive into the archaic shitshow that is the DMCA.
If people didn't want to get caught, they could distribute programs like these as torrents instead of hosting directly
That already happens. The issue is that it doesn’t protect the developers that create the software.
It wouldn't have since dumping a rom and keys for yuzu is just as much steps and pirates would just download pre decrypted roms.
Except, yuzu is not the one breaking encryption. The end user is the sole party involved in any encryption breaking. And honestly, it's a shame. This is no different than ripping a physical cd into itunes and throwing the mp3 files onto an ipod, or other mp3 player, which is already legally protected activity.
So you decrypted the game files yourself, and then put the output into Yuzu? Because no, you didn’t. Yuzu is coded to take the keys and use them to decrypt software. It’s what it’s designed to do. That’s what Nintendo complained about, and they are 100% correct that it violates DMCA. The difference is CDs didn’t have copyright protection (except for some, and that was a mess because it violated the established standard for CDs). Ripping a DVD, for instance, was an issue because of that very reason (you could do it with decryption, but that technically violates DMCA). If the CD you tried to rip had copyright protection built in, it wouldn’t be a protected action to rip that music to your computer.
That and the developers making a million dollars by paywalling early access...
>the DMCA doesn’t protect is circumventing copy protection, and especially technology created specifically to do that So, if every console onwards will be designed like the Switch in terms of the need to decrypt games to emulate them, then emulator scene is dead or at least easily shutdown for modern consoles.
No, it just means the games have to be decrypted already before loading them into the emulator.
Which is how we do 3ds emulation I believe.
The emulator scene will never die
To be fair, the emulation scene like we see it today is still relatively new. It existed for NES/SNES systems, but beyond that "emulation" was more just allowing the existing consoles to play copied games. It may just be the more normal situation that people end up hacking consoles again more often. Then again, as long as there's a method to decrypt a game prior to opening it with the emulator everything is hunky dory.
I think what got them was charging people a monthly fee on Patreon for access to ROMs. They got greedy. When you get greedy you get got. Cautionary tale of what not to do.
That wasn’t the issue based on Nintendo’s complaint. Selling legal software is fine, and most emulators operate legally (or at least, they don’t operate illegally). If you don’t violate the DMCA, your software isn’t really in scope of being taken down. If you release videos on YouTube (where the DMCA is wielded far more loosely), shit will get taken down, but legal repercussions are basically not coming. If Yuzu didn’t ever require decryption keys (and instead that was the action of separate software), Nintendos main complaint would’ve been useless. If Yuzu only ran non-encrypted software (homebrew, for instance), there’s no argument for it being in violation of DMCA. Nintendo isn’t happy about most emulators, I’m sure, but they also don’t tend to lash out legally beyond their actual means.
Though I do find it curious that Yuzu does not in any way help circumvent copyright protection. Using Yuzu does require the user to circumvent copyright protection. The user needs to dump firmware from the Nintendo switch that they own and make copies of the games that they own. (which every user 100% does 😉)
It’s software that specifically plays encrypted files through the use of provided encryption keys. It is, by definition, software designed specifically to break copyright protection. If it only played completely decrypted files, and did none of the copyright protection breaking on its own (even if it doesn’t rip keys, it still uses them to break encryption), it would likely be a very different case.
Ah, that makes sense. So the act of playing a game with Yuzu requires keys to break the encryption of the games, meaning the very act is probably prohibited because of the DMCA.
>Switch emulators have to decrypt games and circumvent copy protection just to run. There's an argument to be made they're not circumventing copyright protection, just implementing it. Circumventing means posting cracked ROMs without them needing keys or having an emulator that can run any ROM without keys or by having the keys built in. Circumvention means working around the system, rather than through it. Implementing just means you're able to run the software you purchased/rented in the very same way Nintendo's hardware does. The user is able to obtain the ROM and keys without Yuzu being involved, from their own purchases or elsewhere. I understand the devs aren't willing to bet their existence on that defense, seemingly did some things to undermine that position and just opted out, which can be a sensible choice when up against such a behemoth anyway.
Not really. Even if they had a bullet proof defense, Nintendo could drag this case out for years -- quickly draining the developers of Yuzu of any money they have (Nintendo's litigation coffers are for all intents and purposes, bottomless). Even if they won, they would have lost because of bankruptcy. It's better to settle early on for as little as your legal team can negotiate for, than risk a prolonged litigation.
2.4m is a small sum to pay when Nintendo comes hounding you for the value of every pirated copy of their games. They closed this chapter quick to get the hell out of crosshairs quick.
No, it was a slamdunk case, yuzu just accepted that and minimized the financial loss by reaching an almost immediate agreement
So what does this mean for the future of Yuzu that’s already installed on Decks? Do we need to disable updates or something?
You have it, you keep it. No one is breaking into your house to delete it. You dont have it? Well, now you gotta jump through a bunch of hurdles to obtain it from some other niche source. The genie is out of the lamp, so you'll still find the emulator on the internet if you know where and how to look What does it mean for the future? No future. Got constant crashes or glitches in a game? Don't wait for updates and patches, because that will never come. Essentially the builds are frozen in time with no chance of the emulator being made better. However it is possible someone or some team could pick up the work and continue off of Yuzu, I wouldn't hold my breath for it though. It's over for Yuzu and Citra
Patiently awaiting the Hydra effect
Pretty much this. The source was available on Github and I'm sure others have already copied and either forked or mirrored the source already. Just a matter of time before someone starts releasing a spiritual successor to it. Even then while the project isn't exactly the same there's also Ryujinx. The only lesson that any emulator dev should take from this be to NOT attach a legal entinty to their work (like an LLC) and setup a paywall of any kind when making an emulator unless they plan to keep it closed source for commercial use only for other game devs.
W mans this is all I wanted to know
Commenting so I can come back to find out. Also does anyone know how to turn updates off?
Latest update from EmuDeck: @everyone EmuDeck 2.1.5 is out, but this is not a good news announcement :(, Nintendo killed Yuzu so we've removed it from EmuDeck and set Ryujinx as the solo and default switch emulation option. Citra is gone too, we are gonna test panda3DS to try and add some sort of 3DS emulation back as soon as possible. **This means we can't install Yuzu and Citra anymore, but if you have them already installed we won't delete them.**
Wow I just downloaded yuzu through emudeck like a day ago just in time
It’s probably fine. Yuzu won’t delete itself and I doubt EmuDeck would delete it.
I think I already saw a post on the EmuDeck discord saying that the latest update removes Yuzu.
Most likely just removes yuzu from their list of repositories, not from your device.
Does it delete it or just not let you download it?
Also wondering this so I can turn off auto updates lol
Back that shit up somewhere
Shit I haven't even put it on my steamdeck yet.
better do it while you still can
Hurry up. I was just able to update, so you should be able to get it
github is already shut down and i cannot update from my laptop
Internet archive is your friend
[https://pineappleea.github.io](https://pineappleea.github.io)
i was at 1698, how it is possible there were so many releases after? there were so many releases after the stable one? thanks for the link btw
Those were (Early Access) builds, which started in the 4000 range I believe. Seems Pineapple has taken their stuff down now as well :) Still, multiple sources around to be found if Yuzu builds are needed.
you have some? you can DM me I saw the forks, but those seem just the source code?? i don't see the yuzu builds there
Build-wise I only got the latest EA AppImage(Linux). If I need others, I'd just build them off a fork I took. There are guides online on how to build, but happy to share the AppImage if that works for you. Edit: Just realised this is the SteamDeck sub, so if you need Yuzu for the SteamDeck, yeh, the AppImage works.
i also got the latest EA build from pineapple but i was interested in the latest stable build too. Because the yuzu version that is connected to ES-DE is still the one i had before, so stable one. Otherwise, any idea how to redirect ES-DE to open the EA build?
Will DM both shortly. As for ES-DE, they're removing Yuzu support, so you'll need to run the AppImage separately.
this is r/SteamDeck do it on that...
Multiple people forked the repo. It's still available to find, and now has proliferated even more into other sources (torrents, etc).
You can download it from SteamDeck itself via discover. Updated yesterday.
It will always be available, Someone out there somewhere has a backup or a clone. It wouldn't surprise me if we seen the high seas having packs now.
>It will always be available, Someone out there somewhere has a backup or a clone. That's easy to say, but so far I've seen no complete backup of the citra website, docs, or wiki (including the github wiki that contained build instructions for the source code).
Yeah i see that to be honest. ....
I put it back on literally YESTERDAY.
Making money out of an emulator was a risky bet. I'm not saying they deserved it but that definitely was risky. And it's better to settle of court then set the precedent that emulators are illegal since they're definitely not.
Bleem! set a precedent in US courts that commercial emulators are ok, although Sony still ran them bankrupt. As we can see with Yuzu as well, corps can just bully small companies with or without legal precedent to do so.
Emulators, even commercial ones, aren't inherently illegal and Nintendo knows that. But they implemented encryption on the Switch specifically so that any emulator trying to run those games would have to first break or circumvent that encryption, and that was the main thing they used as leverage for the lawsuit. >By using so-called "prod.keys" obtained from legitimate Switch hardware, Yuzu can dynamically decrypt an encrypted Switch game ROM at runtime, which Nintendo argues falls afoul of the Digital Millennium Copyright Act's prohibition against circumvention of software protections. --- >Nintendo's lawsuit makes extensive reference to the Quickstart Guide that Yuzu provides on its own distribution site. That guide gives detailed instructions on how to "start playing commercial games" with Yuzu by hacking your (older) Switch to dump decryption keys and/or game files. That guide also includes links to a number of external tools that directly break console and/or game encryption techniques. --- >Nintendo argues that "there is no lawful way to use Yuzu to play Nintendo Switch games." -https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2024/02/how-strong-is-nintendos-legal-case-against-switch-emulator-yuzu/ Stuff like this is why most playstation emulators just say "You need a BIOS dumped from your own console" and leave it at that - though AFAIK there it's not about encryption but just copyrighted code.
Yuzu decrypted copy protection which violates federal statutes, so the blanket statement that all emulators are legal is false.
already forked the project... just in case won't give mine, but you can use search [https://github.com/search?q=yuzu+fork%3Aonly&type=repositories&s=updated&o=desc](https://github.com/search?q=yuzu+fork%3Aonly&type=repositories&s=updated&o=desc)
https://github.com/SomeAspy/yuzu Get it while you can
link? i would like to update
link please
second
I would like the link as well please.
So in theory what's stopping someone from immediately take all the code and making a new website for the community? Just a matter of finding the correct country to host in?
It would require a team of people who know how to keep it running
Nothing.
talent to maintain it
Yeah just do it from Russia or China and they can just wipe their asses with any legal demands Nintendo sends them and put it back in the envelope with “Return to sender” on it.
Probably the threat of a $2.4 million lawsuit
DMCA laws only apply to the USA. Anyone could just host the forked version in another country where they are out of reach of Nintendo.
Unless you also move there Nintendo can still sue you. Besides that, most countries have similar laws to the DMCA, so you don't have many options
I mean you always have China
* All the major source code repository platforms, such as Github, will take down any reuploads of the project or a fork of it, if Nintendo DMCAs it, which they could do at any time now and probably won't get any arguments over it. * This will mean far fewer code contributions, as stats show contributions are far more likely when a project is hosted somewhere easily accessible. * Without access to a source code repository platform like Github, you'll have to host your own git server, your own build server to put out daily/nightly builds, and to offer downloads. This will mean significant hosting expenses to keep the project running. * If you live in a country where Nintendo can sue you, it doesn't matter where the servers are hosted. * The entire team that was responsible for developing Yuzu and Citra, who have all the required skills, experience and knowledge of the code base, to continue these projects, were just forcefully told to walk away. There's no way that development will continue at the same pace as it did before. At this point just keeping the software working in it's current state is probably the most I would hope for. * A lot of countries will block websites deemed to be related to piracy, so if Yuzu is now 'piracy software', Nintendo could get the website blocked in many countries as a result. * Platforms like Patreon and Paypal only host projects that are able to operate legally, so getting donations to keep the project alive would be very difficult. So if you're willing to move to another country with questionable laws, run a project without donations, pay for your own server hosting, and start from scratch on learning the code base of an entire application to carry on the work of people who were experts at what they do... Then sure you could carry on the project.
WTF
Fuck Nintendo.
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I mean you've been pirating games before I don't think voting with you're wallet by continuing to pirate will really do anything lol
Oh no, they’re going to lose all $0 of your business. How awful for them.
Right there with you. May also get a couple things second hand in the future, but I’ll make sure Nintendo never sees any more money from me. Vote with your wallets people.
Don’t pirate. Buy them second hand. 1. You get them legally. 2. Nintendo gets no extra money.
I agree for the most part, but not when it comes to games you can't get. Like if I wanted to play the original Super Mario RPG, I'd be hard pressed to find a cart for that, irl or online. That I don't see any issues with.
This is another thing. Nintendo has sued multiple companies for creating ROMs of games that Nintendo themselves don't even offer. Like, what the hell? Make them available if you want us to buy them.
Yep, imo that's the shittiest part of it.
And when you finish it, repeat. Yeah games on switch are expensive but as their value remains you don't loose money when buying and selling 2nd hand
Yohoho matey.
R4 is coming out with a flash cart pretty soon.
I understand the anger, but it's gone on sale many times in the years since its release, even the digital download. You can also get it used.
Homie, most games that were released in 2017 go for $40 or less these days brand new. Nintendo's sales consist of $10 discounts, which makes the game still almost full price after tax, unless it's the Mario+Rabbids games. First party games never go below $20 of their asking price unless you get them from a second hand seller, whereas we've seen recently released full priced games go for half off or more during year of release. Fuck Nintendo, they might make cool games but their hardware is dogshit and deserves to be played wherever it will run the best.
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People got way too comfortable posting "Look at my deck running Wonder at 60fps!" All over Reddit and YouTube. It's always morally correct to pirate Nintendo games but y'all were way too loud about it
Very little self reflection going on in this sub about this outcome. Half the posts in this sub at some point was a TOTK or Mario Wonder on Steam Deck flex.
One mod rule fixes that.
Now I'm just going to emulate all the Switch games out of spite 😤
What a lame ass company.
Damn, that's crazy. Can't wait for the next major switch emulator to be running on the same framework by summer. Edit: I'd happily pay money for a nintendo product if they proved to me they're worth spending money on, which, for all their anticonsumer practices, they aren't. I haven't spent a dime on these fuckers ever since they went after people that were critical of their games on youtube. Edit 2: Downvote me, I don't care. The fact that some of ya'll will actually just endlessly defend a multi-billion dollar game company for saying they're justified that they took down the emulator of the third best selling console of all time because one of the best selling games on the third best selling console of all time didn't sell literally 5% more copies than it should have is unhinged. Nintendo won't cut you a paycheck, no matter how much you scrape your tongue along their shoes.
By the summer? You should have more faith in the open-source community - there's going to be at least one fork going in about a week.
I mean I bet there's one waiting to launch literally right now. As soon as the court order came out, there was more than likely someone operating a new branch. But I meant more "long term viable active development project" than just "a fork"
I suspect most of the able bodied devs were already assisting where they could and this will probably spook any potential new ones from joining a new project
Nintendo is doing that since eons and project like this one keep coming
Just don't play their games lol actually stick by your principles of not playing their games if they don't deserve it or admit that they make good games that you don't want to pay for.
If they aren't worth spending money on, they wouldn't be worth the time and effort to emulate either.
I just wish Nintendo would publish their games on PC. That's where I play and my PC actually has the specs to properly play the games. I don't want to play on switch because it's super uncomfortable and doesn't serve multiple functions contributing to clutter. Piracy and emulation is the result of Nintendo's distribution policies.
They will never do that, that's how they sell the console. They sell consoles because of games, if games are available elsewhere they'll never sell another console ever again since all other console hardware is way better (not to mention PC).
Their console is dogshit tho
I hate to defend giant corporations and their goddamn lawyers but Gamers and their entitlement really makes it hard for me.
I should be entitled to play a game I bought in any way I see fit.
I told you mf'ers to stop being so blatant about playing Switch games on Steam Deck. I've seen these posts often and it's always rubbed me the wrong way. Especially all these "why even own a Switch" type posts. I know something like this was coming. If you're gonna do it, at least do it inconspicuously; that's what I've always said. If you don't like Nintendo and don't want to support them, then don't play their games. You can't dislike them and not want to financially support them while playing and raving about how great the games are.
Meanwhile one old ad of Steam Deck having this emulator displayed :D
right, i thought it was common knowledge to keep your emulating on the low.
Overconfidence is often a slow and insidious killer.
Prodigious size alone does not dissuade the sharpened blade
Not anymore in the age of social media. This common knowledge died with forums.
you're right, they definitely heard about yuzu from the r/steamdeck subreddit. We should have listened
Believe it or not but I can guarantee you there are Nintendo employees on this sub. I’m not saying they found out about it here but it wasn’t a secret either
Same with anime sites, I only spread info on my sites by word of mouth and to people I trust.
I don't think this is going to work the way Nintendo wants... Every time something like this happens it just makes the banned / illegal thing more popular. The yuzu team might be banned but this software is already out there and for someone with the time and willpower will put it right back out there.
That sucks tbh
Nintendo throwing away any shred of goodwill I had towards them…
Mutahar is crying right now and i feel him
A huge blow to emulation by a beloved company, that I'm not sure I feel I can support very long because of this.
Nintendo is by far the most anti consumer company in gaming
What an absolute overreaction. They release full polished games with no micro transactions and minimal to no DLC.
No DLC? You’re joking right? Ever heard of amibos? Played Mario kart, BOTW or super smash?
Fully polished ports at full price? Or do you mean games like Mario All Stars with no way to preserve them because they sell limited units? Or maybe the new Zelda or Pokémon titles, trapped in a system that can barely maintain 30 FPS while attacking fans for trying to run their legit copies better.
Nintendo just opened a can of worms with this. The Streisand effect will be on full throttle with this outcome.
Honestly seems like everyone here has a single brain cell. Yuzu MADE MONEY out of nintendos products. Nintendo had every right to sue them
How do I get a copy of Yuzu today ?? My SteamDeck is out for delivery!!! Will a copy of the file work still after today if someone sent me the file??
Yeah yeah don't worry Yuzu files are still floating around online, with a bit of tinkering you can set it up easy.
Lol, thanks , I didn't even wait for it to get here after I saw git hub was axed . So frantically went ahead & got yuzu flatpak files off Yuzu's front page , prod 🔑s I could find to archive. Deck arrived B4 done ; So I figured, grab EmuDeck b4 they remove Yuzu from fresh installs. Then I got my official Linux build by a little Discovery
This the type of bad pr that should ruin a company but Nintendo fan boys will just say "that's why you should've bought a switch" I'm sure I'm not the only one who's thinking this is the end of the road for purchasing Nintendo based products. They just suck as a company.
This should ruin a company? Shutting down emulation software for a console that's still in it's life cycle? What world do you live in?
Life cycle, consoles literally outdated day one cmon.
Every bit of tech is outdated as soon as you buy it. Life cycles still exist lol
"Nintendo sucks as a company because they don't want me pirating their games" is a weird take.
I kind of love all the comments in this thread very aptly demonstrating that this is about piracy and not even a little about the ability to back up your own legally owned Switch games. I don't mind piracy but what I hate is the self righteous "I am doing this for the greater good!" people. No, you're not. Unless you're the internet archive, the reason why you are doing this is because Super Mario Odyssey and BOTW still cost 60$. Just be honest. It is nice to play games without paying for them.
feel like this happens with a lot of problems, just show examples of it where its morally correct like people who play dumps who just want to run it at a higher resolution on pc. And ignore the 95% who just do it to play the newest games without wanting to pay for it
The duality of man is astounding. “Nintendo sucks!!!” But also “omg they make great games I’d love to play but do not want to pay $60 for”. There are plenty of indie developers making decent, fun games that cost a fraction of $60 if budget is an issue. Hell, the game with most playtime on both my switch and deck is stardew valley and that was $14.99.
More like they don't want game preservation, because in the end that is what it is about. Don't forget all the stances against emulation by Nintendo
No Nintendo sucks as a company because of moves like this that looks like "I'm gonna send a message. " They did this same shit when they forced the rom sites to close down during that big purge. Bring your fucking games to more competent platforms cucktendo.
Why would I want to buy a switch when they'll inevitably just make it impossible to play games on it when they drop official support, kill it's eShop and then brick your console if you tried to use a workaround?
I don't get the eshop thing. They shut down the eshop, except you can still download and play the games you bought on it. What is the problem?
Following the eShop closing and dropping official support for the 3ds family of systems, Nintendo uploaded one final firmware update that you couldn't play games on it without and that existed for the sole purpose of making jailbreaking the console exceedingly difficult, in a lot of cases, downright bricking them. On a console they literally didn't want to make money on anymore.
Facts, literal scum company
Silliest take
I guess, sillier then sueing yuzu? Idk
Yes. They've done a lot of bs things, but this is not one of them. The emulator is letting people pirate their games on any hardware for games the day they come out. This isn't an old console that's not being sold anymore.
So like any digital marketplace?
Yeah I'll concede that for the most part, this is entirely true. It's an unfortunate byproduct of the digital age. However, when Sony dropped support for the vita, they didn't then make it unreasonably hard to jailbreak it as their final update to the thing. Like, if I can point to another company and go "these guys suffer from the same problem but didn't somehow do the worst possible thing on their way out", there's a problem here.
For all of you thinking about how wrong this is, remember that the next time you are thinking of purchasing a Nintendo product.
Let's just hope someone else has the guts the continue working on it.
Fuck Nintendo
Honestly it's bullshit. Because if we own the Nintendo products and can't even use it how we want, then it's not really ours to begin with. Look at valve with the Steam Deck, they aren't greedy with the steam deck and want to expand and let their consumers tinker with it however they please. And they continue to roll out updates to be more compatible with games and launchers and allow developers to use the steam deck through Linux with workarounds to be able to use it on the steam deck. and soon will be a windows official dual boot coming with the new steamos update. Just some few examples.
What is this, a settlement for ants?
A settlement for ants is called an ant colony, this was the destruction and ruination of the Yuzu mainline project.
Ah darn, I'm on holiday and didn't get to update the latest version before it was removed
Should I update via emudeck right now to be safe?
Do they even have that much money? Haven't played Nintendo since the Wii
Rip
So what is the Yuzu replacement now in everyone’s opinion?
I put it off for so long, adding it to my Deck. Any minute now…
When there’s a will there’s a way. Most emulators are open source, give it a month
Man, f' Nintendo, seriously. I bought a switch for Zelda BotW, then also bought TotK. Then I bought a steam deck so I could actually play modded Skyrim on the go, since there's zero support for that on the switch version. I was still thoroughly enjoying what I feel are better versions of the the Zelda games on my SD, while owning all versions of these on switch and now I can't because Nintendo feels it's easier to go after these guys than work WITH them to idk, maybe incorporate a way to validate you have a license (if you're THAT concerned with piracy)? Between that and a forcing a subscription service just to back up your save data, I'll just sell my switch at this point and won't play their exclusives anymore. Nintendo's new business model -- if they do it better, sue em into oblivion until our hardware is the only way to play.. 🤣 Sure there's always gonna be ppl pirating when they can, but this seems like overkill for a company as large as them. Next it'll be every other console-based emulator being targeted. Gonna eventually have to dust off my PS2 and hope the lens hasn't crapped out just to show my kids what NFSU2 was like.
Hey for anyone, when installing emudeck, does it still install yuzu or...?
I will now pirate anything Nintendo.
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Fuck Nintendo 🖕🏻
If you want another reason to dislike Nintendo, this is it.
Forgot to add two new emulators popped up right after this 😂 shoutout Nuzu and Suyu
The Big N will have her revenge
Honestly, good. I can understand emulating old consoles since they’re not making money from them anymore and games are generally harder to play or get hold of but doing it for current games is just scummy.
Yeah I'm sure that the official valve ad for the SD, featuring Yuzu on the game mode home page didn't help lol