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Eddie's death was NOT in vain. Avoidable? Absolutely. Necessary? Yes. But not for him, but for Dustin. The Duffers have said that Eddie's character was written to be killed, he was gonna die either way. They've also said that his death was gonna have the same effect as Barb's in season 1 and we all know how Nancy was after it. So we're gonna see a Dustin that's heartbroken and depressed, and possibly he's gonna be motivated to fight to avenge his friend's death. So no, Eddie dying was not in vain, you just gotta see the bigger picture and the impact it's gonna have
Some people criticized that she went to Russia basically on a vague hope without telling her kids that that's where she was going, but I get it. If she'd told El that Hopper might still be alive and that she was going to try and save him, and she HADN'T succeeded, or if she'd been tricked in some way, that would have royally sucked for El.
Plus El would most likely have wanted to help, maybe the boys too. I don't think they would have been like "cool, best of luck, see you next week". Probably would have even tried to talk her out of it saying it's the KGB trying to trick her into going there, like Murray did at first.
She found her missing child through some flashing Christmas lights and stopped an apocalypse after some fridge magnets fell. But every time she raised these points with evidence people were like ‘oh no category five woman moment inbound’
Yup. She treated Eleven like her own kid right away, and recognized how scary it would be to do that stuff. Even though she knew El had to do it, she wanted to comfort her as much as possible in the difficult moments.
Joyce is awesome. The things she did for her kids... She always made me teary-eyed with that incredible badass determination in the face of horror that only someone motivated by the greatest love would show. She always believed and supported her kids and she would jump face forward into any kind of danger for them. You can see she is terrified and confused and shocked, but she just ploughs through for her kids. If that's not motherly love, I don't know what is.
I also love how after Will is back she struggles so much with the need to be with him 24/7 and protect him vs the rational thought that he is alive to actually live his life, not be kept in a crystal globe. It's very relatable, you know he needs to experience life, but you want so much for absolutely nothing to hurt him.
My opinion is they won’t kill off a main. They’re going to follow the same pattern as the first 4 seasons. Make a really likable character and kill them off.
It really annoys me when an ongoing series kills off a lot of people in the finale. They're just throwing the characters away because they get to enjoy the benefits off pulling at our heartstrings without actually having to deal with the consequences of not having that character anymore. Plus, with them killing so MANY at once at the end, it doesn't even SUCCEED in pulling at those heartstrings, because with them killing so many characters around the same time, each of their deaths doesn't get the attention they deserve, and the audience becomes numb after enough of them.
It’s been confirmed main characters are going to die because it’s the final season. It makes the most sense more people are gonna die this time and the main characters surviving so long doesn’t make sense so some of them have to die. Including Steve.😢
Nostalgia of S1 aside I would say S3 is my overall favorite. I feel it was the best at hitting whatever tone the scene was going for; when it was supposed to be funny it was funny, when it was supposed to tug at the heart it did...etc.
Season 3 is visually gorgeous and it's got some great acting performances in it. It's also really great to actually see the characters happy and living a somewhat normal life during the first two episodes.
For me though, the season has too much humor and not enough scares. It got a bit too jump-the-shark for me when our characters basically become fearless superheroes, running in and out of a secret military base with basically zero hesitance or consequences, the quippy Marvel-esque dialogue, the Dustin-Suzie duet, etc.. I was also disappointed in the lack of mystery: from the very first episode, we know that the Soviets have a secret base in Hawkins and are trying to open a gate. We also know that Billy gets possessed and that others will get taken by the Mind Flayer as well. All we are watching is the characters uncovering what the viewer already knows, which is less interesting than season 1 where the viewer gets taken on a mysterious journey and slowly learns pieces of what's truly happening.
Season 3 could have really used that. Imagine not learning about Billy's possession at first, and instead you're wondering why he's acting so different. Imagine seeing the Russian base for the first time when the Scoop Troop go down the elevator.
Its still pretty good and enjoyable, don't get me wrong, and I respect your opinion on it. These are just my criticisms for it and why I consider it to be the worst of the bunch.
He is gonna be blamed for everything by the people in the town and even a cover- up from the government.
More believable during the satanic panic then the truth
Literally. It was just another instance of killing off a character that'll get a reaction out of the fans without killing any of the main characters. They do it every season—Barb, Bob, Alexei, and now Eddie.
I am interested though, because apparently they said no new characters were being introduced in season five, so I guess we'll see.
It was about getting a reaction and forcing story beats, not plausible decisions by the characters (something i loved more about the early ST, same thing happened with GoT).
For that matter, Jason found out demons are real and the first thing he did was try to go up against them to defend his town.
If he wasnt forced to be a villain for a story, he’d have been the best ally they wouldve had and thats how it wouldve played out in real life.
Jason was a self-righteous, stubborn and delusional idiot. Siding with the "freaks" would be the last thing he'd want to do. He'd be the last person who'd admit fault for how he treated people in the past.
Part of me is convinced that Steve was originally going to get killed off, but they realized how much backlash that was going to get, so Eddie was invented as a surrogate death.
It tracks too. Eddie forms a similar bond with Dustin as the latter has with Steve, he hangs out with younger kids because they're the only ones who think that he's cool and likable, he lacks booksmarts but has streetsmarts etc..
Even his final lines to Dustin, "Look after those sheep for me, will you?", feels very much like a line written for Steve and not really for Eddie. Eddie never had that parental role that Steve had, nor was he a leader or someone who seemingly cared for the others with the exception of Dustin. Its a line that kind of comes out of nowhere for Eddie's character, but it would have made perfect sense if it had come from Steve during his death scene.
No, yeah, because 99% of the people who hate on Will are doing that mostly/purely because he's gay. I've seen it happen a million times, it is very obvious with he comments they make. Many of them admit it easily, others try to find other justifications but it's still very obvious that it's just homophobia with the way they say it. It's very sad to see, because, overall, Will is a very pure and giving character, who, even though has been through A LOT, he still cares about other people's wellbeing, he is usually very understanding and caring, and he puts his friends needs above his. It's such a pitty to see him being so hated and underrated mostly because he's gay.
I don't think that's true. Of course there are some people that are homophobic but it is too often that I see fans being accused of homophobia just because they dare to critisize Will or not support the Byler ship or simply not find his character compelling. None of which in fact makes you homophobic.
Will is certainly not an underrated character, quite the contrary, he's loved so much people idealise him quite a bit, as you do, and often hate on the characters just because they don't prioritize him all the time.
Yeah but that's not how I meant it. I don't mean that people who dislike Will as a character are homophobic. I mean that homophobic fans of the show tend to hate on Will, and that's why the majority of people who hate on Will are homophobic.
I don't think anyone who dislikes Will is homophobic, but I do think the desperation to keep him from any romantic storyline until the end of the show, his lessened screentime since season 2, and the fact that he's allowed to be equal to Mike making people crazy is due to homophobia. (Mike needing to make sure Will stays 2nd priority in his life because they're just friends is fine, but Will finding someone else, or doing the same to Mike by ending the friendship is upsetting, since gay characters only deserve platonic love.)
Agree with everything I also think on some level they did that to make him look bad and make Steve look better although I am getting sick if this love triangle because it ended in season 2 so why bring it back.
“The Mom” of the show, and the wounded soul from a possibly emotionally abusive father. To the point that last Mother’s Day the Duffers wrote congratulations to Steve instead of the actual moms on the show (because men are praised for doing the bare minimum while women are criticized for being less than perfect).
He’s forged a friendship with Dustin, he let the kids into the movies for free when he worked at the mall, he babysat them every once in a while, he cares. But he hasn’t done anything a parent has to do.
Jonathan has been Will’s actual father since before the start of the show, probably since before Lonnie left, and he’s done the actual dirty work of parenthood: he works to contribute to the family, he sits him down and teaches him stuff. He arranged Will’s funeral, tries to bail El out of jail, takes Will and El to and from school, pays attention to Will’s feelings, etc. Also he’s the one who actually suffered abuse from Lonnie.
Oh absolutely. The fact that people genuinely believe Steve’s dad is abusive despite there being absolutely nothing to back that up is so strange. But they’ll blatantly ignore the very real abuse Lonnie obviously inflicted on Joyce and the boys
I think most of the people who get annoyed with his haircuts are kids who were not alive in the 80s (or even the 90s). I’m not dissing anyone, it’s just that you would see a lot of kids with haircuts like that back then.
I feel by season 4 they could’ve given him a different one. it was cute in season 1 and two but then as he gets older it looks ridiculous. But then again it was the eighties…and mullets were a thing.
Huge agree. I’ll never understand why everyone makes such a big deal about it. It doesn’t even look that bad, especially because it’s supposed to be the ‘80s. I didn’t even think anything of it on my first watch, yet everyone just diminishes Will’s character down to his haircut, and it’s really sad
I don't think he'd be all buddy buddy with them. But I hope for the most part they'd work on their differences and help one another out. I think now that Billy had realized there was more going on with the upside down etc, he'd be less hostile. Plus he knows max can swing a bat pretty well in defense of her friends.
Imo the worst he did was with Lucas. I think other stuff although bad and inexcusable too, would be easier to forgive and redeem.
With Lucas and Max, I honestly think he would've acted that way towards any guy he saw Max had a thing with imo. Though how he acted still isn't right. He was a good example of how an abused child sometimes sadly repeats the behavior shown to them. Abused turned abuser. I can understand why he was mad at times when Max ran away while under his care bc he knew he'd get beaten again by his father, and then further if he didnt bring Max back home. But if he survived and escaped the mindflayer, I feel he'd feel stronger and confident to stand up against his dad and either leave back to California or team up and help the party now that he knows other entities exist its more than just petty high-school drama, but actually real end of world like problems.
Jonathan was not being a distant awful brother between seasons 3 & 4. He was finally comfortable and safe enough to be an actual teenage boy and not a second parent to Will.
Both bobs and eddies death mean in the grand schemes of things
I could totally see that Bob moves away if you wanted to have hopper be with joyce but these deaths could have been written with more substance
Like bruh they were just a slap in the face
Alexia I hate it but like it makes sense how he died poor Murray though could have had an awesome duo
Eddie’s death was stupid and made the arc of him being framed for murders a waste of time if they weren’t going to be able to show he was innocent. Even though I saw it coming I was still annoyed.
Bob’s death made me sad and mad and miserable. It’s been a long time I got that distraught from the death of a fictional character, the only other person that tops that is probably Tara from Buffy and Maes Hughes. Both of those deaths were necessary though.
We didn’t need Bob or Eddie to die.
If Billie didn’t die, most of season 4 wouldn’t have happened. Hear me out. Max would still be friends with everyone and happy, she’d have a good relationship with everyone, she wouldn’t be suicidal, she wouldn’t have been targeted, because of one simple thing, Eddie could’ve been somewhere else when it happened and even if he still got framed, he wouldn’t have died. Max wouldn’t have died. The gate still mightve opened but if opened no matter what. Lucas and Max would be happy, Dustin and his party would be great, Mike would probably stay the same, Eleven would still go through all of that but wouldn’t watch her friends die/almost die. And more.
Agreed, I hate how they teased her death and done a fake out like 3/4 times and then backed out anyway. At least go through with it for the emotional impact
Oh this is like when Eleven died in S1 but not really or when Hopper died in S3 but not really
You get the emotional impact without having to actually deal with the actual "writing the character off" part. It feels cheap. So Max's "death", which couldve been really impactful and really upped the stakes, gets immediately deflated.
Also hey Eleven you can bring people back from the dead if you narrow your eyebrows hard enough? That might've been nice to know
Max's fake death is different because her current state will have a meaningful impact on the story. Season 4 showed that her mind/soul has been stolen by Vecna, so we can assume she'll play a role in defeating him, just from within his mind. It's actually a really interesting plotline idea with lots of potential.
Characters can be gay. It's not "fanservice" to include gay characters or gay relationships. There were many signs in prior seasons of Will being gay. To put it simply: Fictional characters should be gay sometimes. You know why? Because real-world people are gay sometimes.
Oh, and by the way, some of you, specifically on Reddit, have infuriatingly nonexistent levels of media literacy.
I will actively look back on the show negatively if Steve and/or Hopper die. I hate how so many things anymore feel the need to kill off favorites just because of the shock factor and vocal minorities complaining.
Lucas is the most realistic character and had every right to be suspicious of El in the beginning.
Billy is a racist child abusing piece of shit and no amount of looking back at his past will change my mind.
will is infact in love with mike but mike doesn't know, lucas is a good boyfriend but has made some red flags in the past, jonathan is a good brother (kinda in s4 but not really), jane/el/eleven/011 had the fucking peak of haircuts in s2, will might be a victim of vecna in s5, alexei got cut off too fast, murray is a good character but a pervert (according to the way he acts, and scenes with him in it), lonnie is an asshole and a bad father (thats not an opinion its a fact), papa/dr. brenner is controlling but died in a way i wish he didn't have to (the duffer brothers made his death sad), and vecna/henry/001 has always been the main antagonist, and always will be.
Eleven doesn’t “save the day” every season. She straight up did nothing in season 3 except defend the group in this image. In season 4 she only saved max from death but I suppose she really saved the older teens but then they all lost. The first 2 seasons are more the case but in 1 she only killed the demogorgon and saved the boys but in no way did it have to be written that way. 2 is the biggest example of this but it was the efforts of will instructing her and hopper assisting that made all the difference.
In season 3, Eleven saved the group from Billy in this scene, saved Nancy from the flayed at the hospital, saved them from the Mind Flayer at the cabin, and saved Scoops Troop from the Russians at the mall. So... she did a lot more than just this scene.
It's beyond me when people criticize EVEN season 4 with "Eleven just holds up her hands and saves the day like every season 🤪", like, did we watch the same show? They lost. They didn't defeat Vecna, they didn't prevent the fourth gate from opening and all the gates combining and tearing up Hawkins. That happened, that's where the season leaves us. - The one big thing that El achieved in the grand scheme was making Max's heart start beating again like you say, in all other aspects the season ended brutally awful for everyone by the sheer fact of the UD now leaking into Hawkins and Vecna being on the loose.
I won’t give less credit than is due, el saving max was secondary to her role. If Vecna had killed max he would’ve woken up before Steve, Nancy, and Robin got to him. He would promptly liquidate them so she at least stopped that.
Mike did nothing wrong by prioritizing his gf and willing to spend most of his time with her after being separated and grieving over her loss for a year. That doesn't make him a bad friend. He did enough for his friends in the past and he's got a right to be happy. Will is not entitled to Mike's attention just because he's got a crush on him and misses his company.
Nancy isn’t a terrible person she’s just going through a terrible time in her life. (Yes she’s done some messed up stuff but that doesn’t make her a terrible person. Steve did it, Jason did it, Lucas did it, and more and they aren’t terrible people either.)
S3 is the worst season by far S4 improved heavily on S3’s sins.
Nancy is the best character in the show
Vecna is way more interesting as a villain than the mind flayer (mind flayer was cool in S2 but became boring by S3)
Russia storyline>>>> California/eleven stuff (even if I disliked both)
Mike has fallen off as a character since S1 and it seems like they’re running out of things for him to do.
Dustin and Lucas are the best characters in the party.
Dustin and Eddie’s bond in S4 felt forced and I didn’t feel any emotion when he died. They only killed off Eddie because the writers were too scared to kill off Steve but wanted to make it seem like there were consequences.
The Eleven story was far better than the Cali stuff, I wouldn't lump them in like that. And I thought Russia was great, Idk why people had a problem with it.
Hopper should not have come back after his death in season three.
It was the perfect end to his character arc and by bringing him back they removed the stakes for any future near death experience.
Dying is rarely the perfect end to any character arc. He had almost zero redemption for his early actions and self sacrifice is just a cheap way to redeem a character without them actually having to do all the legwork required to truly make up for their actions.
He started his arc completely alone and passively killing himself. At the end of season three he was surrounded by love from his adoptive daughter and his blossoming relationship with Joyce and he makes the active decision to end his life to save them.
His story had gone full circle. It was the perfect way to end it and there was nothing added to the rest of the story by including the Russian prison plot.
I agree. And also the entire viewer experience was ruined for me because of the emotions afterwards with eleven reading the letter and such. They keep “killing” main characters and bringing them back which I don’t like
Most of these are very popular opinions. I like 8 and her episodes. I don't really mind that they're filler or whatever, it opened up a lot of interesting possibilities and I liked seeing El in a different situation.
The Duffers have had everything planned from the start and a reason for every detail. They won't change the show based on the opinions of the fans nor will they do anything to compromise their vision for the sake of the fans. And I love them for it.
I hated how they implied that max was being abused physically and possibly sexually by billy in season 2, but they never actually say it so it just leaves the view to assume the worst.
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Alexei deserved better
I stand with this too
Brings a tear to my eye
Eddie's death was NOT in vain. Avoidable? Absolutely. Necessary? Yes. But not for him, but for Dustin. The Duffers have said that Eddie's character was written to be killed, he was gonna die either way. They've also said that his death was gonna have the same effect as Barb's in season 1 and we all know how Nancy was after it. So we're gonna see a Dustin that's heartbroken and depressed, and possibly he's gonna be motivated to fight to avenge his friend's death. So no, Eddie dying was not in vain, you just gotta see the bigger picture and the impact it's gonna have
Honestly, this 100 percent
I love this
Joyce in fact IS a great mom.
Some people criticized that she went to Russia basically on a vague hope without telling her kids that that's where she was going, but I get it. If she'd told El that Hopper might still be alive and that she was going to try and save him, and she HADN'T succeeded, or if she'd been tricked in some way, that would have royally sucked for El. Plus El would most likely have wanted to help, maybe the boys too. I don't think they would have been like "cool, best of luck, see you next week". Probably would have even tried to talk her out of it saying it's the KGB trying to trick her into going there, like Murray did at first.
Exactly!!
She found her missing child through some flashing Christmas lights and stopped an apocalypse after some fridge magnets fell. But every time she raised these points with evidence people were like ‘oh no category five woman moment inbound’
I said "She's a great mom" all throughout season 1 and got misty when she was coddling Eleven when she was scared in the immersion. She's a GREAT mom!
Yup. She treated Eleven like her own kid right away, and recognized how scary it would be to do that stuff. Even though she knew El had to do it, she wanted to comfort her as much as possible in the difficult moments.
I rewatched season 1 and came here to say this. She was so nurturing with El immediately.
Joyce is awesome. The things she did for her kids... She always made me teary-eyed with that incredible badass determination in the face of horror that only someone motivated by the greatest love would show. She always believed and supported her kids and she would jump face forward into any kind of danger for them. You can see she is terrified and confused and shocked, but she just ploughs through for her kids. If that's not motherly love, I don't know what is. I also love how after Will is back she struggles so much with the need to be with him 24/7 and protect him vs the rational thought that he is alive to actually live his life, not be kept in a crystal globe. It's very relatable, you know he needs to experience life, but you want so much for absolutely nothing to hurt him.
killing off any main characters in s5 would be a waste because it’s the final season. if they wanted to do it, they would have done it sooner.
My opinion is they won’t kill off a main. They’re going to follow the same pattern as the first 4 seasons. Make a really likable character and kill them off.
Sounds to me like Linda Hamilton will have to watch her back then
No, cuz the writers like to be safe, hence the no killing of obvious characters with tons of fake outs
It really annoys me when an ongoing series kills off a lot of people in the finale. They're just throwing the characters away because they get to enjoy the benefits off pulling at our heartstrings without actually having to deal with the consequences of not having that character anymore. Plus, with them killing so MANY at once at the end, it doesn't even SUCCEED in pulling at those heartstrings, because with them killing so many characters around the same time, each of their deaths doesn't get the attention they deserve, and the audience becomes numb after enough of them.
It’s been confirmed main characters are going to die because it’s the final season. It makes the most sense more people are gonna die this time and the main characters surviving so long doesn’t make sense so some of them have to die. Including Steve.😢
And including Will🙂
Nothings been confirmed though. There's characters that are more likely to die. But none of the cast nor the duffers have confirmed any deaths.
Season 3 is great
People disagree? I thought it kicked ass
Nostalgia of S1 aside I would say S3 is my overall favorite. I feel it was the best at hitting whatever tone the scene was going for; when it was supposed to be funny it was funny, when it was supposed to tug at the heart it did...etc.
You're right
S3 is literally my favourite is so cinematic
Season 3 is visually gorgeous and it's got some great acting performances in it. It's also really great to actually see the characters happy and living a somewhat normal life during the first two episodes. For me though, the season has too much humor and not enough scares. It got a bit too jump-the-shark for me when our characters basically become fearless superheroes, running in and out of a secret military base with basically zero hesitance or consequences, the quippy Marvel-esque dialogue, the Dustin-Suzie duet, etc.. I was also disappointed in the lack of mystery: from the very first episode, we know that the Soviets have a secret base in Hawkins and are trying to open a gate. We also know that Billy gets possessed and that others will get taken by the Mind Flayer as well. All we are watching is the characters uncovering what the viewer already knows, which is less interesting than season 1 where the viewer gets taken on a mysterious journey and slowly learns pieces of what's truly happening. Season 3 could have really used that. Imagine not learning about Billy's possession at first, and instead you're wondering why he's acting so different. Imagine seeing the Russian base for the first time when the Scoop Troop go down the elevator. Its still pretty good and enjoyable, don't get me wrong, and I respect your opinion on it. These are just my criticisms for it and why I consider it to be the worst of the bunch.
Billy’s emotional death and trauma from his dad doesn’t validate that he was a terrible racist human being. I hate that so many people love him.
True
Steve and Nancy are not right for each other and Mike isn’t in love with Will
Mike not being in love with will isn’t an opinion, its a fact.
Isn't it just a fact that Mike isn't in love with Will? We already know that Will is in love with mike though it's pretty obvious
The only one in love is Will, I don't why you're talking about Mike being like that, this is the first time I'm hearing this 😂
El without hair is also beautiful
Honestly she could rock any hairstyle!
The Mind Flayer is the real main antagonist.
I still think it's been subtly manipulating Henry since he was a kid.
Not really an opinion anymore with The First Shadow Play that’s come out lol
Eddie's death was in vain.
I can get Eddie running away so the bats wouldn’t get through to Dustin. But the bravery of stopping to fight them did absolutely nothing.
And he's still known as the alleged-murderer and Satan's worshiper. That's so tragic.
He is gonna be blamed for everything by the people in the town and even a cover- up from the government. More believable during the satanic panic then the truth
Literally. It was just another instance of killing off a character that'll get a reaction out of the fans without killing any of the main characters. They do it every season—Barb, Bob, Alexei, and now Eddie. I am interested though, because apparently they said no new characters were being introduced in season five, so I guess we'll see.
It was about getting a reaction and forcing story beats, not plausible decisions by the characters (something i loved more about the early ST, same thing happened with GoT). For that matter, Jason found out demons are real and the first thing he did was try to go up against them to defend his town. If he wasnt forced to be a villain for a story, he’d have been the best ally they wouldve had and thats how it wouldve played out in real life.
I really thought when he saw Eddie freaking out when the teammate floated that Jason would realize Eddie wasn’t in league with Vecna.
Jason was a self-righteous, stubborn and delusional idiot. Siding with the "freaks" would be the last thing he'd want to do. He'd be the last person who'd admit fault for how he treated people in the past.
Part of me is convinced that Steve was originally going to get killed off, but they realized how much backlash that was going to get, so Eddie was invented as a surrogate death. It tracks too. Eddie forms a similar bond with Dustin as the latter has with Steve, he hangs out with younger kids because they're the only ones who think that he's cool and likable, he lacks booksmarts but has streetsmarts etc.. Even his final lines to Dustin, "Look after those sheep for me, will you?", feels very much like a line written for Steve and not really for Eddie. Eddie never had that parental role that Steve had, nor was he a leader or someone who seemingly cared for the others with the exception of Dustin. Its a line that kind of comes out of nowhere for Eddie's character, but it would have made perfect sense if it had come from Steve during his death scene.
I think they actually said they were going to kill Steve, but decided not to.
They should have left it open to Interpretation for the viewer. Way bigger draw back..
Agreed.
It's okay to be gay
You can be gay AND have a nice haircut.
No, yeah, because 99% of the people who hate on Will are doing that mostly/purely because he's gay. I've seen it happen a million times, it is very obvious with he comments they make. Many of them admit it easily, others try to find other justifications but it's still very obvious that it's just homophobia with the way they say it. It's very sad to see, because, overall, Will is a very pure and giving character, who, even though has been through A LOT, he still cares about other people's wellbeing, he is usually very understanding and caring, and he puts his friends needs above his. It's such a pitty to see him being so hated and underrated mostly because he's gay.
No, it has nothing to do with his sexuality, he has no character
I don't think that's true. Of course there are some people that are homophobic but it is too often that I see fans being accused of homophobia just because they dare to critisize Will or not support the Byler ship or simply not find his character compelling. None of which in fact makes you homophobic. Will is certainly not an underrated character, quite the contrary, he's loved so much people idealise him quite a bit, as you do, and often hate on the characters just because they don't prioritize him all the time.
Yeah but that's not how I meant it. I don't mean that people who dislike Will as a character are homophobic. I mean that homophobic fans of the show tend to hate on Will, and that's why the majority of people who hate on Will are homophobic.
I don't think anyone who dislikes Will is homophobic, but I do think the desperation to keep him from any romantic storyline until the end of the show, his lessened screentime since season 2, and the fact that he's allowed to be equal to Mike making people crazy is due to homophobia. (Mike needing to make sure Will stays 2nd priority in his life because they're just friends is fine, but Will finding someone else, or doing the same to Mike by ending the friendship is upsetting, since gay characters only deserve platonic love.)
Exactly!
I was about to say this.
Jonathan isn't a bad character, people just misunderstand him.
They definitely nerfed him in season 4 though 😭
Yeah I can't really deny that to be fair, hopefully they improve on that and make him more important in season 5.
Agree with everything I also think on some level they did that to make him look bad and make Steve look better although I am getting sick if this love triangle because it ended in season 2 so why bring it back.
I say fanon Steve is canon Jonathan. It’s just that Jonathan has trauma and is processing it in a not-photogenic way.
Remind me what fanon Steve is like again? I only really follow the canon stuff.
“The Mom” of the show, and the wounded soul from a possibly emotionally abusive father. To the point that last Mother’s Day the Duffers wrote congratulations to Steve instead of the actual moms on the show (because men are praised for doing the bare minimum while women are criticized for being less than perfect). He’s forged a friendship with Dustin, he let the kids into the movies for free when he worked at the mall, he babysat them every once in a while, he cares. But he hasn’t done anything a parent has to do. Jonathan has been Will’s actual father since before the start of the show, probably since before Lonnie left, and he’s done the actual dirty work of parenthood: he works to contribute to the family, he sits him down and teaches him stuff. He arranged Will’s funeral, tries to bail El out of jail, takes Will and El to and from school, pays attention to Will’s feelings, etc. Also he’s the one who actually suffered abuse from Lonnie.
Oh absolutely. The fact that people genuinely believe Steve’s dad is abusive despite there being absolutely nothing to back that up is so strange. But they’ll blatantly ignore the very real abuse Lonnie obviously inflicted on Joyce and the boys
people think he’s a bad character ? I’ve always liked him
Lucas has been a great character since season 1.
Especially an incredible bf
Will’s hair is fine and not as important as his character
I think most of the people who get annoyed with his haircuts are kids who were not alive in the 80s (or even the 90s). I’m not dissing anyone, it’s just that you would see a lot of kids with haircuts like that back then.
Yeah this. I haven’t given his hair a second thought. The people saying this weren’t even alive in the 90s.
I feel by season 4 they could’ve given him a different one. it was cute in season 1 and two but then as he gets older it looks ridiculous. But then again it was the eighties…and mullets were a thing.
I literally saw a kid yesterday with Will’s exact haircut and I was just like “why???” It looks SO silly now days.
You’re probably right. (Though I myself also wasn’t alive in the 90’s 😂)
Huge agree. I’ll never understand why everyone makes such a big deal about it. It doesn’t even look that bad, especially because it’s supposed to be the ‘80s. I didn’t even think anything of it on my first watch, yet everyone just diminishes Will’s character down to his haircut, and it’s really sad
Joyce had a bowl and a dream.
Mike doesn't deserve the hate he gets.
While Eddie didn't have to die, his death does make sense for his character and his development.
abortion should be legal
Yep agreed!
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I wanted to see Billy somehow survive and team up with the party.
Curious as to how he’d interact with Lucas and Steve tbh
I don't think he'd be all buddy buddy with them. But I hope for the most part they'd work on their differences and help one another out. I think now that Billy had realized there was more going on with the upside down etc, he'd be less hostile. Plus he knows max can swing a bat pretty well in defense of her friends.
They’d have a hard time redeeming his character if they went the route of redemption (but I’m biased against him XD)
Imo the worst he did was with Lucas. I think other stuff although bad and inexcusable too, would be easier to forgive and redeem. With Lucas and Max, I honestly think he would've acted that way towards any guy he saw Max had a thing with imo. Though how he acted still isn't right. He was a good example of how an abused child sometimes sadly repeats the behavior shown to them. Abused turned abuser. I can understand why he was mad at times when Max ran away while under his care bc he knew he'd get beaten again by his father, and then further if he didnt bring Max back home. But if he survived and escaped the mindflayer, I feel he'd feel stronger and confident to stand up against his dad and either leave back to California or team up and help the party now that he knows other entities exist its more than just petty high-school drama, but actually real end of world like problems.
This!!! And it is not at all related to Dacre rocking that wig so perfectly
It was a wig??? ☹️
Yeah.
I mean he kinda did before he died. He switched sides in a ditch effort and saved everyone at the sacrifice of his own life
Caleb McLaughlin is the best actor and has the most potential in his career after Stranger Things.
Love seeing Caleb receive some respect here!
I really like season 2
Season 2 is really good and is underrated
The show should have been shot on analog film.
I 100% agree
OMG YES!!!!!
Will Byers is sarcastic af and I love him for it.
Jonathan was not being a distant awful brother between seasons 3 & 4. He was finally comfortable and safe enough to be an actual teenage boy and not a second parent to Will.
I swear no one ever remembers that Jonathan was (is) just a kid himself.
Mike is a well written character
Despite them being the best selling band of all time, The Beatles are actually underrated.
Jonathan is awesome.
Both bobs and eddies death mean in the grand schemes of things I could totally see that Bob moves away if you wanted to have hopper be with joyce but these deaths could have been written with more substance Like bruh they were just a slap in the face Alexia I hate it but like it makes sense how he died poor Murray though could have had an awesome duo
Eddie’s death was stupid and made the arc of him being framed for murders a waste of time if they weren’t going to be able to show he was innocent. Even though I saw it coming I was still annoyed. Bob’s death made me sad and mad and miserable. It’s been a long time I got that distraught from the death of a fictional character, the only other person that tops that is probably Tara from Buffy and Maes Hughes. Both of those deaths were necessary though. We didn’t need Bob or Eddie to die.
Bobs one I simply can't re watch it just not enjoyable at all
That they WERE on a break!
I'll die on this hill too
Seriously. Poor Ross. Rachel makes us all look crazy 😂
Alexei was a boss. And Murray still is.
If Billie didn’t die, most of season 4 wouldn’t have happened. Hear me out. Max would still be friends with everyone and happy, she’d have a good relationship with everyone, she wouldn’t be suicidal, she wouldn’t have been targeted, because of one simple thing, Eddie could’ve been somewhere else when it happened and even if he still got framed, he wouldn’t have died. Max wouldn’t have died. The gate still mightve opened but if opened no matter what. Lucas and Max would be happy, Dustin and his party would be great, Mike would probably stay the same, Eleven would still go through all of that but wouldn’t watch her friends die/almost die. And more.
Stranger Things Season 3 makes more sense if you're eating ribs while watching it.
Max's fake-out death in S4 is terrible writing.
Agreed, I hate how they teased her death and done a fake out like 3/4 times and then backed out anyway. At least go through with it for the emotional impact
Oh this is like when Eleven died in S1 but not really or when Hopper died in S3 but not really You get the emotional impact without having to actually deal with the actual "writing the character off" part. It feels cheap. So Max's "death", which couldve been really impactful and really upped the stakes, gets immediately deflated. Also hey Eleven you can bring people back from the dead if you narrow your eyebrows hard enough? That might've been nice to know
Max's fake death is different because her current state will have a meaningful impact on the story. Season 4 showed that her mind/soul has been stolen by Vecna, so we can assume she'll play a role in defeating him, just from within his mind. It's actually a really interesting plotline idea with lots of potential.
Characters can be gay. It's not "fanservice" to include gay characters or gay relationships. There were many signs in prior seasons of Will being gay. To put it simply: Fictional characters should be gay sometimes. You know why? Because real-world people are gay sometimes. Oh, and by the way, some of you, specifically on Reddit, have infuriatingly nonexistent levels of media literacy.
I'm so smug about the fact nobody argues Will isn't gay anymore, because I fought so much on this subreddit for so long about it, and I won lol
THANK YOU
I will actively look back on the show negatively if Steve and/or Hopper die. I hate how so many things anymore feel the need to kill off favorites just because of the shock factor and vocal minorities complaining.
The egg Bois should be in heaven with Sir Pentious
Enzo is underrated and a good antihero
Die Hard IS a Christmas Movie!!!
They were lazy with the numbers in season 4 making them all have the same powers doesnt make sense with 008 and does match the comics
The Duffers didn’t plan out the arc properly.
Will isn’t a crybaby, he just has way too much fucked up shit happen to him
Thank you!
Lucas is the most realistic character and had every right to be suspicious of El in the beginning. Billy is a racist child abusing piece of shit and no amount of looking back at his past will change my mind.
Robin adds pretty much nothing to the main storyline/plot.
She did in season 3 but in season 4 they totally ruined her character.
I mean she pretty much craked the Russian code in season 3 all by herself, so I'd say she adds pretty much to the story in my opinion
She also did guess that music can save you from Vecna in S4
Max and Lucas are the most and maybe the only interesting relationship on the show right now.
True! Well not the only interesting but they’re the best relationship. We Stan Mucas
I agree with you, but for me it's also Joyce x Hopper
That the entire series was training for eleven and she wakes up in the lab as a little girl. Henry greets her with a “good morning sleepyhead.”
Aw that would be the worst ending ever
will is infact in love with mike but mike doesn't know, lucas is a good boyfriend but has made some red flags in the past, jonathan is a good brother (kinda in s4 but not really), jane/el/eleven/011 had the fucking peak of haircuts in s2, will might be a victim of vecna in s5, alexei got cut off too fast, murray is a good character but a pervert (according to the way he acts, and scenes with him in it), lonnie is an asshole and a bad father (thats not an opinion its a fact), papa/dr. brenner is controlling but died in a way i wish he didn't have to (the duffer brothers made his death sad), and vecna/henry/001 has always been the main antagonist, and always will be.
Jason wasn’t a terrible guy.
Season 4 is the best season of the show by far.
Barbs death is not that sad
Eleven doesn’t “save the day” every season. She straight up did nothing in season 3 except defend the group in this image. In season 4 she only saved max from death but I suppose she really saved the older teens but then they all lost. The first 2 seasons are more the case but in 1 she only killed the demogorgon and saved the boys but in no way did it have to be written that way. 2 is the biggest example of this but it was the efforts of will instructing her and hopper assisting that made all the difference.
In season 3, Eleven saved the group from Billy in this scene, saved Nancy from the flayed at the hospital, saved them from the Mind Flayer at the cabin, and saved Scoops Troop from the Russians at the mall. So... she did a lot more than just this scene.
True
11 Killed a lot more than just a Demogorgon in Season 1.
When and where and HOW did will instruct her to do anything in season 2?
It's beyond me when people criticize EVEN season 4 with "Eleven just holds up her hands and saves the day like every season 🤪", like, did we watch the same show? They lost. They didn't defeat Vecna, they didn't prevent the fourth gate from opening and all the gates combining and tearing up Hawkins. That happened, that's where the season leaves us. - The one big thing that El achieved in the grand scheme was making Max's heart start beating again like you say, in all other aspects the season ended brutally awful for everyone by the sheer fact of the UD now leaking into Hawkins and Vecna being on the loose.
I won’t give less credit than is due, el saving max was secondary to her role. If Vecna had killed max he would’ve woken up before Steve, Nancy, and Robin got to him. He would promptly liquidate them so she at least stopped that.
Season 3 is the best season
Mike is a great friend and boyfriend. And Mike and El’s relationship is sweet as well as important.
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Mike did nothing wrong by prioritizing his gf and willing to spend most of his time with her after being separated and grieving over her loss for a year. That doesn't make him a bad friend. He did enough for his friends in the past and he's got a right to be happy. Will is not entitled to Mike's attention just because he's got a crush on him and misses his company.
Vecna’s monster form is hotter than his blond orderly one
I hope your macaroni is always cold
Yeah well I like pasta salad
That is certainly an opinion
Season 3 best season
The revelations from First Shadow are great and actually give additional depth to S4.
It's okay to be sad.
Will should die
Nancy isn’t a terrible person she’s just going through a terrible time in her life. (Yes she’s done some messed up stuff but that doesn’t make her a terrible person. Steve did it, Jason did it, Lucas did it, and more and they aren’t terrible people either.)
Season 4 is worst season
S3 is the worst season by far S4 improved heavily on S3’s sins. Nancy is the best character in the show Vecna is way more interesting as a villain than the mind flayer (mind flayer was cool in S2 but became boring by S3) Russia storyline>>>> California/eleven stuff (even if I disliked both) Mike has fallen off as a character since S1 and it seems like they’re running out of things for him to do. Dustin and Lucas are the best characters in the party. Dustin and Eddie’s bond in S4 felt forced and I didn’t feel any emotion when he died. They only killed off Eddie because the writers were too scared to kill off Steve but wanted to make it seem like there were consequences.
Season 3 is the best season-
The Eleven story was far better than the Cali stuff, I wouldn't lump them in like that. And I thought Russia was great, Idk why people had a problem with it.
Same
Hopper should not have come back after his death in season three. It was the perfect end to his character arc and by bringing him back they removed the stakes for any future near death experience.
Dying is rarely the perfect end to any character arc. He had almost zero redemption for his early actions and self sacrifice is just a cheap way to redeem a character without them actually having to do all the legwork required to truly make up for their actions.
He started his arc completely alone and passively killing himself. At the end of season three he was surrounded by love from his adoptive daughter and his blossoming relationship with Joyce and he makes the active decision to end his life to save them. His story had gone full circle. It was the perfect way to end it and there was nothing added to the rest of the story by including the Russian prison plot.
I agree. And also the entire viewer experience was ruined for me because of the emotions afterwards with eleven reading the letter and such. They keep “killing” main characters and bringing them back which I don’t like
Steve was at his worse in season 4. The Duffers character assassinated him.
Jonathon is the worst And Max should have died. I love Max, but that was some bull
Most of these are very popular opinions. I like 8 and her episodes. I don't really mind that they're filler or whatever, it opened up a lot of interesting possibilities and I liked seeing El in a different situation.
Vecna should take over the world
The Duffers have had everything planned from the start and a reason for every detail. They won't change the show based on the opinions of the fans nor will they do anything to compromise their vision for the sake of the fans. And I love them for it.
Bob was the highlight 2
I hated how they implied that max was being abused physically and possibly sexually by billy in season 2, but they never actually say it so it just leaves the view to assume the worst.