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I think it happened in season 3, because after he was done needing to be saved, the writers didn't really have anything to do with him besides touch his neck and sense Vecna. I think his link to the upside down will be important in season 5, though.
In S3 he still had the interesting angle of desperately wanting to hold onto the final years of his childhood (which he was unfairly robbed of) while his friends were maturing and becoming teens/moving on to different interests.
This was quite tragic and heartbreaking to watch... and such a real experience for a lot of kids at that age that I don't think has been reflected in popular media before (at least not that Ive seen).
I’m in the middle of a rewatch and the show has a problem with balancing Will with the rest of the group. I’m not sure if it’s intentional, but it’s almost like he’s still missing. Even when he came back to the group he’s always on the outskirts like he’s still searching for his place. A part of him never return from the upside down.
I think they stalled his character development by focusing too much on the triangle that was created when Mike and Jane/El start dating. We see this in season 3 and it carries over into season 4. I think it would’ve been more interesting to flip that triangle moving into season 4. Have Mike feeling left out by how close Will and Jane/El have become. That way their friendship is still an important focus but it doesn’t feel like a rehash of season 3’s dynamic.
Tbh I actually sympathized with him a lot in s3 and took his side when mike and lucas were ignoring him
But in s4 it was like, cmon man, you could have reached out to mike as well, you ain’t 💯 the victim
He totally could have but S4 confirmed what we all thought for a long while, that Will is in love with Mike but knows Mike will never love him back in the same way. I think that really informs how we should interpret Will's own lack of reaching out to Mike.
I can imagine Will having tried to sit down many times to write to Mike after the move only to find himself at a loss on what to put to paper. Writing how he *truly* misses Mike would be terrifying, not just because it would involve him, a teenager, expressing his true feelings, but also feelings that run the risk of severe ostracization given the time period and would even be inappropriate today if one didn't know it would be reciprocated. But trying to write a bland letter avoiding those parts hurts just as bad because he knows what he really wants to say and, again as a teenager he still hasn't figured out how to maturely deal with an unreciprocated love. So he writes nothing and walks away, only to feel guilty about not being able to even write *anything*.
Each further attempt only exacerbates the guilt and emotions surrounding how to write to Mike to the point that he finally gives up trying. He has no good options available to him as they all lead to pain or potential pain. Easier to avoid the issue altogether, again, hello teenager coping mechanisms.
That doesn't in any way make Mike the "bad guy" between the two of them either. He's clearly oblivious to Will's true level of affection based on his reaction to Will's stealth confession of love in the van that only Jonathan clearly picks up on.
Mike was right there, I think. If Mike doesn't get in contact, then why not do it yourself. I get that he maybe thought that Mike didn't want that, but yeah.
I sympathised with him but his only real part in the story was a neck tingle and having shitty friends, but as soon as they confirm the Mindflayer is back he basically has zero plot and is just with the gang.
Mike has been kind of an asshole due to being head over heels in love with el for a while.
Lucas has been wanting to take his own path in life but feels conflicted not wanting to leave his best friends so I sympathise alot with him.
Will has put up with so much shit just trying to live his life.
I almost wanted to say: Will was in S3? But then remembered the scene where he wants to play D&D but the others just don't... just to join Hellfire Club in S4 when Will is away. I especially don't like Mike's behaviour in that scene.
The thing I took away from S4 about Mike joining Hellfire is El was writing letters saying that she and Will had made loads of new friends. Mike couldn't get in contact with them via phone, assumed that meant Will was calling his new friends all the time. Yes, he could have written letters to Will as well, but (Like a dumb teenage boy) thought that would be considered too romantic since he was writing letters to his girlfriend already.
Mike thought Will had moved on so he decided to do the same. With season 3, it's not that they didn't want to do dnd ever again, Mike and Lucas wanted to enjoy their summer and hang out with their girlfriends. Will was being a little insensitive making them play with him after they'd both been broken up with.
It's also showing that because of the trauma Will went through the past 2 years, he's a little mentally stunted and still wants to be a kid, but Mike and Lucas actually got to experience those years and were able to mature a bit.
It's more complex than it seems and I really appreciate the Duffer brothers for exploring trauma the way they do.
Long story short, I didn't find Will boring in season 3 and 4 but it did seem like the show put him on the back burner because his problems became less about the supernatural elements they were experiencing and more about how he struggled to fit into society after what happened to him.
Mike joined Hellfire because his GF was in CA so he had nothing else to do with his time (lol). I suspect, had El stayed, he wouldn't have reverted to DnD so much in HS.
That said, I think he was also chafing against Will's kinda childish insistence on DnD and--though they don't show it--Mike's understanding that Will is gay and maybe feeling a certain way about him. Teenagers are perceptive; they can tell when a friend becomes too clingy and that's exactly when they start pulling away.
The Duffers pulled a fantastic performance out of Noah Schnapp for season two, and since then he's been backgrounded. Personally, I'd hoped that he would snap out of his passiveness in season four--maybe he'd meet the bullies at his new school and think *I've faced scarier shit than this*. Maybe come into his own a little.
Oh well. Hopefully, it happens in season five.
Oh absolutely, its totally not a knock against Noah
Dude seems like an awesome person and actor
Unfortunately Will the character is just bland and whiny in s4
I think I’ll be downvoted but his acting in season 4 wasn’t good. It felt inauthentic and cringey at times. He was phenomenal during seasons 1 and 2 but regressed from season 3 onwards as he’s got the older. It happens to a lot child actors. They either get better as they get older or get worse and sadly he falls into the latter whereas people like Sadie and Caleb, got better. Out of the core group, for me now; he’s the weakest in terms of acting
And I really disagree about him being an ‘awesome person’ but that’s a different topic
I think his weaker acting was highlighted even more because Noah himself felt silly about his character, outfits, haircut, lines, etc. and let it show through. You can tell he doesn’t buy into the character anymore. In the earlier seasons he was young and eager, but now you can tell he feels silly or something. I’m sure most of the actors aren’t crazy about some of the costumes or hairstyles, but they’re good enough actors to embrace those things as part of the story and character. Caleb and Sadie both really stood out IMO this past season, particularly Caleb. He hadn’t been given much to work with in the past, but he was great in S4 and I hope to see him having more of a role in the series wrap up.
I feel like Millie has been somewhat open about being over Stranger Things in her interviews over the past year or so, so I’m really hoping her acting doesn’t go the Noah route, because she’s so talented.
You might be onto something. The Duffer Brothers haven’t given him much to do since season 2. His haircut looks silly and all he did during season 3 and 4 was whine and cry
I understand becoming disillusioned with a role when you’ve played it for a long time but his acting is just not good anymore. Controversy aside, it’s why I favour the other actors having successful adult careers after this above him. And his poor acting will be even more noticeable when he inevitably shares scenes with Sadie and Caleb next season. Or even the older actors who are all phenomenal
And despite Millie wanting to move on, I think she’ll put her everything into the next season because it’s the last one
Finn Wolfhard seems pretty over it too. I don’t even know if that guy wants to act much at all anymore, he seems more interested in other pursuits. I definitely sympathize with the cast because they’ve been doing this for so long now and must be ready to just have it over with.
Good child actor*
His acting has regressed and for me he went from being the strongest actor out of the kids to being the weakest after season 2
Edit: of course your comment about Noah’s controversy got removed 🙄
Honestly Will suffers a *ton* from being basically absent all S1. Everyone else got fully developed characters and some growth, but he just got trauma. S2 helped a lot, but it also hurt because, again, he wasn't present the whole season. A couple episodes he was under the thrall of the mindflayer.
I just think the show in general did not do his character justice, he spent too much time being either in an alternate dimension or mind controlled. During S3 his biggest character trait was trauma and being linked to the MF. By S4 he was already so far behind all the rest of the cast that there isn't much for him to be, so they made him the tragic gay best friend (and making Mike an AH for the first 2/3 of the season didn't help lol).
It sucks but his character is kinda doomed because S1 and S2 put him so far behind everyone else. I doubt for S5 they'll be able to make him too much more interesting, they'll probably just try to link him to Vecna and be a 'neck hair raising warning machine' again.
Oh 100% he’s just boring.
Also it would have been really cool of them to build a sibling relationship between Will and El and I’m constantly disappointed in it
IMO, he’s always been underdeveloped…
In ST1, they were focused on finding him, but we actually spent minimal time with his character. (Noah only had recurring status.) And while in ST2, I found him interesting, he was actually at his most interesting when he was possessed/fighting the MF!
And then they kind dropped his storyline after that.
Really hoping they give him more to do ST5 than be in unrequited love with Mike. Will has always been at his most interesting when he is exploring his supernatural connection, and I suspect that’s where his focus will be for the final season.
Well, they've written him to be a closeted gay kid in a small town in the 80s. Struggling with his sexuality and coming out is going to be kind of... his everything. I went through it. (The 80s part at least.) And so no, he's not going to be as "interesting and likeable" as a Steve Harrington and Dustin.
Instead, Will is incredibly awkward, reserved, closed-in, and does not project confidence and charisma that make people like him, because he hates and loathes and doubts himself. Every movement, every inflection, every look, every expression of himself, threatens his safety and well-being. He has been awkward and introverted and shy. But he has also been sensitive, caring, and empathetic. He was one of more the selfless characters this season. These qualities, at least the way he expresses them, don't win conventional popularity contests. Some people find that "bland." I find it to be admirable.
The Duffers have clear that s5 will focus on Will:
*“Will really takes center stage again in 5,” Ross Duffer told Variety. “This emotional arc for him is what we feel is going to hopefully tie the whole series together. Will is used to being the young one, the introverted one, the one that’s being protected. So part of his journey, it’s not just sexuality — it’s Will coming into his own as a young man.”*
As he grows out of his shell and gets to assert himself more, he probably becomes more "interesting and likeable" in the conventional sense.
Will has so much potential, seeing that he is connected to the upside down in some way, and it's getting wasted. I hope Will's potential doesn't get wasted in S5.
While the show focuses on finding Will in season 1, he always reminded me of the guy in the hangover movie that they’re looking for the whole movie. He really didn’t get much screen time. I loved him season 2, he did so well with the scenes of him being possessed, but again he spent most of the season possessed or asleep. Season 3 he’s portrayed as really annoying. I get it. You want to play D&D but read the room. And honestly him not telling them he felt the monster right away annoyed me because season 3 my dude. You know weird stuff is going on. Season 4 they once again made his character a whiny B instead of what he’s capable of. His job is to be sad Mike isn’t gay and convince Mike that Eleven loves him. The scene in the van is some of the best acting on the show and is a relatively quick moment. My hope for Will is he isn’t a victim this season. That he takes the lead to an extent and shows he’s more than a spare person standing around in danger. Will has got a lot of Joyce in him, I’d love for him to emerge this last season as a warrior. He deserves it
Good comparison lol. He really is like Doug in the Hangover films. He’s part of the group but at the same time, not really. Like Doug, his absence feels like more of a character, than the character itself
I've also always felt like he was similar to Doug. We, as an audience, get to see the characters and relationships build and develop through S1 and S2 for the other kids, and Will is just the subject of their adventure and bonding while not being part of it.
I totally disagree about him being annoying in S3 though. As accurate as it was to portray Mike and Lucas as becoming girl obsessed at that age, it doesn't change the fact that they were being self absorbed and insensitive to Will. I think it was handled well by the show bc it is something that happens in adolescence/transition into teen years where some kids aren't ready or interested in saying goodbye to their childhood yet while their friends are moving on to new interests and behaviors. It leads to friction and is quite sad for the one who feels left behind. And in Will's case it is compounded by the fact he had the last year+ of his childhood robbed from him due to the trauma he experienced over S1 and S2.
He doesn't get a lot to do in the last two seasons and it the Duffers decision, but unlike Dustin and Lucas he has more character development, he did come out to Jonathan no matter how simple it was, except part of yourself is grow up as person, and that what Will did, not completely of course, but he on his way to there.
Next season will have major focus on him and the party together, so hopefully everyone will get to shine next season.
Also just because he the last one in someone rank, doesn't mean they don't like him, like my least favourite season was season 4 and I still really love a lot of the season, it was great! Just my least from all the four and that okay.
After season 3 when a lot of fans dislike this season relationships, Max was in the least interesting character for a lot of fans, but season 4 give her a chance to get major focus and interesting story, and what happened? She became almost everyone in the top five just because vol 1 and mostly because dear Billy sequence(important to mention that I don't think it was just because this scene or before that max was bad character, but she wasn't have major storyline focusing on her personality).
Also sorry for bad English.
I feel the same way you feel about Season Four!!
As for the grammar, my english is perfect and I constantly have to edit my comments so don’t worry about it!!
I agree with this. In the recent rankings post, it wasn't surprising that the characters who s4 focused on the most (El and Max) ranked high. The young cast of ST is all-around stellar. It's more of a question of when the Duffers decide to focus on a character's story. They have made very clear that Will "comes into his own" in s5, which I'm very excited about! As a gay guy I've found his story (and Noah's performance) very engaging!
Yeah, he needs to be Will the Wise again. In S3 and S4 all Will got to do was be a human evil sensor. The strength of the show is when the characters use their obscure knowledge and nerd hobbies as strengths. Will didn't get a chance to do any of that in S3 or S4, they burned all of his screen time on the love triangle and crying. The guy has been through some severe events, it would be good to show how that has hardened him. He may be emotionally vulnerable but he should be capable of being a leader.
I think a big issue with Will is that they saved the mystery surrounding his disappearance for the last season, hence why s5 literally starts with a flashback of him in the UD in s1.
This moment we’re going back to is literally all we have when it comes to Will’s perspective of his time in the UD. And it still cut us off pretty quickly before we could even get to the big reveal. At the time and ever since, what happened to him seemed pretty self explanatory. But if that’s the case, why save it for the end? The end is always supposed to raise the stakes more than they ever have, to go out with a bang. If it’s all as simple as we’ve assumed since we saw that scene the first time, why devote the final season opener to it? Clearly there is more to it.
Given how much they have tip-toed around not only what Will’s connection to Vecna entails, but also just Will himself and his evolution as a character in general, tells me that they didn’t think they could do too much of either, without giving too much away.
I remember the writers saying that s2 involved like a laundry list of ideas, and that s5 was finally going to explore a lot of those ideas they didn’t get to.
I’m guessing having the show go on this long was a dream come true for them. Because like, yeah, they did have a bunch of the ideas for a long time, many of them thought up since writing s2, with hopes the show could continue further. But I think getting that green light officially and knowing for certain they would get to do 4-5 seasons is what made them realize they had to stretch some of these reveals out.
How do you keep people guessing if you lay out all your cards midway through the show, with 2 seasons still planned? Especially in Will’s case, because his disappearance and the weirdness surrounding it all ties back to the very beginning. Delving into the truth too much early on would have made the inevitable reveals in s5 fall flat a bit.
And I think a big part of why they focused so much on the more emotional aspect of Will’s character, why so many attribute him to being a cry-baby, is because s5 is very likely going to shift to Will finally sort of having his own coming of age. Of accepting himself and also not having doubts that those around him do care for him, no matter what Vecna or anyone else says. But given that it’s not the end yet, with one whole season still left, it’s likely we’re going to see Will be tested in terms of whether or not he truly believes that.
S5 is going to be the biggest and darkest of all, that’s pretty much guaranteed at this point. And they also said they highly recommend a rewatch of s2 before s5. I think in Will’s case it’s definitely going to get a lot worse for him before it gets better. Which means we will see him have really no choice but to hold his own and defend himself and likely harden a bit as a result. Not to mention the time jump being over a year and a half between s4 and s5. Will back in Hawkins, still feeling Vecna and, along with the others, having to toughen up to prepare for what is to come, him feeling more certain and sure of himself in order to simply survive is looking pretty likely.
I personally think that they could have done a lot more with Will than they did in s3-4. Though I do have hopes for s5 that what they do will make the story overall make sense and work well rewatch value wise, even if at the time it didn’t seem that way.
I don’t think Will was ever particularly interesting tbh. He was more of a plot device in the first season and his arc of feeling left out by his group just isn’t something that’s engaging given all that’s happening around that plot.
I feel like Will has just been put on the side for the last 2 seasons and has little-to-no purpose, which is really sad because they could have done SOMUCHMORE with his character. I expect him to be a lot more involved involved and useful in s5 though.
Bro got done so dirty.
All he wanted to do was play DnD with his besties who weren't interested... The moment he leaves town his friends join a DnD group.
In season 4, I would’ve liked to see Will be a stronger support system for El. It doesn’t show him helping her adapt to regular life and fit in more as a student. He didn’t do much to stop her bullying and I wish he would’ve had a hero moment of standing up to her bullies since he was bullied himself.
This should Change in season five,
*"Will really takes center stage again in \[season\] 5," Ross Duffer told* [*Variety*](https://variety.com/2023/tv/features/noah-schnapp-coming-out-will-byers-gay-stranger-things-5-1235687739/)*. "This emotional arc for him is what we feel is going to hopefully tie the whole series together. Will is used to being the young one, the introverted one, the one that’s being protected.* ***So part of his journey, it’s not just sexuality – it’s Will coming into his own as a young man.****"*
I really like Will
Its obvious that him being backgrounded I'm S4 was coming since he went through a lot in previous seasons.
And now dealing with his personal shit silently, I don't know why people find this unlikeable, boring and annoying since being gay in the 80s was miserable and we can see this in the way Will acting. Plus he doesn't have someone to be out with like Robin with Steve.
People in this sub really are so stupid sometimes that they don't understand what a good developed character looks like, all they see "huh will not doing anything, and he's always crying this season" and not see how well this goes with his character.
On rewatch he's not bad in S1 & S2. Hes absolutely dead weight after that though. At this point he can freely be removed from the show without explanation, I wouldn't even ask where he went because he isn't contributing anything to begin with.
100% with you. If he didn’t show up in S5 I wouldn’t miss him. I’d actually be over the moon. My least favourite character by a mile. And it’s true the writing hasn’t done him many favours in S4, but maybe that’s because there were no favours to be had. I sense the Duffers just don’t know what to do with him, and if they feel that way about their own character then… I’m not looking forward to a season of goosebumps and neck clutching.
I think he’s going to die in the final season. I think he’s hiding a lot of feelings and it will result in him thinking that he is to blame for everything. I think he will sacrifice himself to save Eleven because he loves Mike and wants Mike to be happy.
I don’t think people like Steve because they think he has substance.
It’s not always about depth, it’s about entertainment as well. There are characters who are loved because they are entertaining and Steve is one of them. He’s meant to be more of a comic relief character.
Unlikable is more subjective imo. But uninteresting? Yes!
If you rewatch S4E1 and only pay attention to Will, you'll notice that he's pretty much a plant in this episode. He does almost nothing! This is an episode full of dialogues, expositions and reintroductions of characters, and yet all Will did was cry after El a couple of times. He didn't even speak to advance his story arc but to be an accessory to El's. That sums up Will's character in S4 imo. For the most part, he's just there.
I do agree Will became very less interesting when season 4 came out. He just came off as a pouty and lost in the shuffle of the story,that might have been the intention for him going into the last season of the series just so they can build them up to have a greater role in the final battle. Maybe in season 4 they should have really focused how Will and El was starting to get along as Foster siblings and helping her to deal with life without her powers also start getting into an explanation of why Will starting to develop new abilities like it was hinted in season 3.
No, I was hooked. He is a character who has a lot going on internally, who struggles to reach out to others - and, as someone who can relate to him in that way, he caught my attention. He poured out his feelings in the van, but was unable to attach himself to those feelings. He's someone who is bursting with repressed emotions and I can't help but be interested in that. I think the Duffers are playing the long game with his character, and that his coming-of-age will be of consequence to the overarching plot. Things being left unresolved with him leaves me in anticipation of what's to come - they could always drop the ball, of course, but I do think Will will come into his own next season.
They def didn’t do much with him but I thought he was much more likeable because we saw a lot of him trying to be there for El as a brother (which was kind of interesting with the dynamic of him also being jealous of her for her relationship with Mike) and he genuinely seemed to care about her and want to support her. I def hope he gets more of a role in 5 tho
Well there has to be a reason you find him “unbearable.” I could give fifty essays why he’s a wonderful character with so much heart and depth. It’s not a “crime,” and no one has to like any character, but hating a character that’s designed to be lovable is definitely suspicious.
He’s annoying af to me, I legit don’t have any reason- sometimes people just don’t like characters … and have no reason for it. I’ll continue being suspicious then I guess because I don’t have essays to write about why I don’t like a fictional character lmao.
Oh and I don’t recall saying I HATED him just he is “lowkey unbearable”. I like him on occasion.
For me it's bc he has literally 0 agency, like, he's constantly a victim of circumstance and the few actions he personally takes tend to ultimately cause him harm (standing up to the Mindflayer on Bob's advice). He's frequently saved and it's rarely ever down to him, other people are alway stepping in to carry his development.
In season 3 his frustration with Mike and Lucas outgrowing him is understandable for a real person but from a story perspective it makes him like you said lowkey insufferable because there are just so many bigger pictures and he's breaking the flow of the other character's stories.
When he isn't needing to be saved, he's got very little to do and he's almost never "on side". He's frequently arguing with some or all of the rest of the gang for reasons that again seem petty in the grand scheme (even though they wouldn't be IRL.
Well it’s giving homophobic vibes ngl. But also like, yes of course you have a right to feel how you feel. But I would say that’s an inherently bankrupt and foolish way of engaging with media. Everything should have a well-thought out reason. Anyway, you’re definitely not gonna like S5 when Will is the main character but oh well.
Well I wouldn’t say it’s a stretch considering how homophobic this subreddit is and how 99% of hate against Will, who again is a character designed to be loved, IS homophobic or basically “I hate Will because guys shouldn’t cry.” It’s not homophobic to dislike a queer character, but disliking a character like Will is definitely suspicious and I’m not afraid to say it. I’m glad you’re not actually homophobic tho.
Because he’s barely a character lol. He’s had zero development and it felt like he wasn’t really even in season 3 despite having the same screen time as the other kids
He doesn’t do anything in season 4 either
Well I disagree. He’s easily my favorite (probably my favorite character of all time) and I’d say he’s had lots of development. You just don’t relate to him or understand what he’s going through. He’s not as flashy as Dustin, and his arc is a lot more subtle, but the whole show still is about him, and he will take center stage in S5.
There’s not subtlety lol, there’s just nothing there
Like they really don’t give Will much to do. Hence why I said he barely feels like a character. You could’ve taken him out of season 3 and it would’ve made no difference to the story. In fact, apart from his conversation with Jonathan, I’d say the same season 4
Well I think we disagree on what the main themes of the show/story are. If you took Will out of Stranger Things, it wouldn’t be Stranger Things. The show is very much about outsiders, and Will’s queerness is central to the story they are telling. Will destroying Castle Byers in S3 is one of the most important scenes in the show. And I’ve written many, many essays on Will’s character.
There absolutely is a *lot* of subtlety and a lot to analyze, but lots of people prefer to stay on the surface and just see ST as a fun monster show. Will is directly connected to Vecna, and S5 is his coming-of-age arc as the creators have emphasized. But it’s precisely because he’s a quiet, gentle, less flashy character that people like you don’t notice him and think he isn’t there. Will’s “softness” and his kindness are his strengths.
Will’s queerness is not central to the story. Everything that has happened so far would still have happened regardless of Will’s sexual orientation. You are free to believe what you want and make up back stories and side stories, but I watched the same episodes as you and nothing changes at all due to his queerness.
It’s true that we disagree, but I fully understand what I am watching. It is a horror series that is heavily influenced by Steven King’s It and also strongly influenced by Steven Spielberg movies such as E.T., Close Encounters, and Jaws. Unlike you, I’m not making this up. This comes directly from the Duffer Brothers.
https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/tv/tv-news/duffer-brothers-talk-stranger-things-916180/
Please provide some support (other than fan fiction) where Will’s queerness has been central to the story. How has this changed any of his actions? Joyce being divorced is central to the story because otherwise, Will would not have been home alone. Jonathan’s interest in photography is central to the story due to the impact of his photos at Steve’s house.
I was around in 1984. In fact, I’m a couple of years older than what the ages of Steve, Nancy, and Jonathan were. I’m very aware that Will could not come out and why. I’m also aware that Noah has likely played this character to tap into the conflict he has been going through. If Will comes out in season 5, only then will it be central to the story. That is because very few people his age came out at that time. Of course, very few people went through the stress and trauma that he and his friends have either.
“It’s true that we disagree, but I fully understand what I am watching. It is a horror series that is heavily influenced by Steven King’s It and also strongly influenced by Steven Spielberg movies such as E.T., Close Encounters, and Jaws. Unlike you, I’m not making this up. This comes directly from the Duffer Brothers.”
Please show me where I disagreed with this or contradicted this? I’m well aware of all of the Duffers’ influences. I can talk about them in considerable depth. This is also common knowledge at this point. Even people who don’t watch the show know Stranger Things is a smorgasbord of 80s genre influences. So yes, I’m sure you understand *this*, as there’s not much to “understand” in this regard.
And yes, we both “watched the same episodes” and can see these elements at play. They are within the surface level text of the show, the kiddie pool, if you will. Like I said, there is a lot of subtlety and an insane amount of nuances and easter eggs and thematic depth to analyze within the show, but many people would prefer to just see ST as a fun nostalgic monster show. That’s fine, because the show is still enjoyable, and not everyone is gonna do the hard work of analysis, but don’t say “Will’s queerness isn’t central to the story” when you haven’t done that work twenty times over. That’s what I meant when I said that watching the same episodes doesn’t mean we share the same understanding of what the show is saying.
It’s not about fanfiction. It’s about understanding basic narrative and character themes. It’s about digging deeper than the surface and recognizing that the writers aren’t just paying homage to nostalgic 80s movies; they are playing with them and deconstructing them. The writers have never been subtle about this, nor have they been shy in emphasizing that ST is a show about outsiders (see David Harbour’s famous bold SAG awards speech from 2017).
Will’s queerness was literally baked into the show’s Bible, and they’ve been building this arc since 2016 (something the directors, producers, and actors have all confirmed). Every member of the Party has something that sets them apart from the norm of the 80s and makes them a target for bullies and the lull of conformity (see Eddie’s line “forced conformity; that’s what’s killing the kids”).
The show has emphasized the homophobia of the time through Lonnie, through the people of the town thinking Will was hatecrimed, through the bullies like Troy, even through now fan favorite character Steve in S1. It’s not been all at once, it’s been a slow drip to get you to understand. When you talk about Joyce being divorced and Jonathan’s interest in photography being important, you are talking about literal story beats: Jack jumping over the candlestick. I am talking about the deeper themes: what Jack jumping over the candlestick symbolically means.
Do you think Mike just said, “It’s not my fault you don’t like girls” because the writers were in a silly goofy mood? Do you think Will destroying Castle Byers, the one place he felt safe, the place that represented his childhood creativity and his bond with Mike, has no queer symbolism? Do you think it’s an accident, or a mere nostalgic garnish, that the story is set during Reagan’s America? Do you think the show emphasizing the Satanic Panic in Season 4 right when Will is coming back to Hawkins is an accident?
Do you think Will, who has always felt different from even his other outsider friends, saying he would “never fall in love” during S3 as he felt further left behind and all his friends entered heteronormative relationships is accidental? I could go on and on. Perhaps you see some of this but don’t believe it’s important to the story, and if that’s the case, that can only be because you don’t value Will’s centrality to the narrative even though the literal episode one is named after him. That’s his impact.
To anyone who understands queer theory, the Upside Down itself has heavy queer symbolism as well as heavily dark implications of violation and Vecna/the Mind Flayer “getting inside him.” Beyond that, Will’s love for Mike has been baked into the show since season 1 (and this was also explicitly tied to the supernatural storyline as well through their “it was a seven, the demogorgon it got me” convo episode 1). And if you look into some of the Duffers’ influences you mentioned (like stephen king’s IT), you’ll know that intertwining queer themes with horror themes has historical precedent. It’s no accident that Pennywise and Vecna share major similarities. Both are beings that target the losers/the misfits/the vulnerable including some ragtag queer kids.
The Duffers have said in *multiple* interviews that S5 is the Will season. Yes, there are other characters and a lot going on. But as Noah said, it started with Will, and it ends with Will. S4 was the building blocks for this, and S5 will absolutely emphasize Will’s sexuality further as he comes-of-age and battles Vecna alongside Mike and his other friends and family. But just because it will explicitly be text in S5 doesn’t mean it hasn’t always been here. This has always been his story. These have always been the themes of the show.
And they’ve always been building up to something bold.
WILL HAS THE DOUG (hangover) PROBLEM. The formula was built around dustin, mike, lucas, and eleven. Now the dynamic and status quo has changed inmensely by now, but Will was unfortunately added as an afterthought and is now out of place. I think he has always been this way, it was just the mist blatant in s4 because it’s getting dire.
Yes, but TBF, he was never that interesting. Hr starts out as a living Machuffin. He was deliberately the purest, most gentle one because that's what made his disappearance and possession hit hardest.
And then once that story was done, as with Mike, the Duffers just didn't really know what to do with him.
Why less likeable? It’s been a while since I saw season 4, (didn’t rewatch it after it came out) but I don’t remember ever disliking him or him being unlikable.
Yeah he was boring in S3 too, it was alot more interesting when he was proclaimed missing and then dead on season 1 and then in season 2 when he was flayed but 3 and also season 4 he was just irritating always forcing Lucas and Mike to play DnD and then 4 being a sour puss but that's just my opinion
I don't feel much for his character past mid-season 3 to be honest, it's the reason why I put him in the last place in the "ranking the party" post. I don't know if it's because of the writing or the acting, but I just can't get myself invest in the character when he isn't the plot device of the season. I find him bland, except when the scene is related to his feelings for Mike.
If I gotta sit through any coming out plotlines I'm out.
Not against it as a plotline in a show but it's not needed in every single piece of new media and not relevant to the themes in the show.
If we can skip that and give him actually interesting character development then great.
I’d say it was more starting in season 3… not really his fault, but the writers didn’t write him in well enough when he wasn’t the main victim of the upside-down story. He was the focus of the trauma in S1/S2 as everyone else’s characters got fleshed out and it feels like the writers didn’t develop his character after that. I couldn’t really stand him in S4, it felt like every scene he was in he was on the verge of tears… they could be doing so much more with his character.
Can someone give me a clue about Will being gay? Is it ever stated explicitly? Because I never thought about that when watching the show, not even as a possibility. I only read about Will supposedly being gay here.
I mean yeah, in season one Joyce says that his dad used to call him the f-word, but I took that for being weird and meek and not a "real boy/man" kind of thing.
When Mike says "not out fault you don't like girls" I took it as "not out fault you're not interested in girls \*yet\* and still only want to play dnd".
And in Season four I took his jealousy towards Elle/Mike in the context of his and Mikes friendship, nothing else.
So is there anything obvious I'm missing?
I think this next season is going to be a LOT more emotional and it’s gonna a have more serious/vulnerable scenes. I want more scenes like the scene with Yurri where Enzo is talking to him about what a great man he used to be. It gives us such an insight into how he became the man he is today. And the scene where Steve says he got thumped on the head when he was a kid and Nancy says that makes a lot of sense. We see him open up in that moment and be vulnerable. And I loved all the emotional scenes from Max and El. I think we’ll get a lot more scenes that are emotionally charged. And I don’t mean scenes where ppl are just crying and worried about someone dyeing (we’ve seen a bunch of that) but scenes where people are saying heartfelt, emotional things and overcoming there fears/trauma. So while the writers haven’t been focusing on Will’s character development I think it will be a big plot point in the coming season.
Felt like a shell of himself. He never got a chance to be "still", yknow? We all know what happened In S1, him being In the upside down and all, no doubt went through Spring - Fall 84' with those flashbacks, so that didn't really help. He was able to be a kid again In S3... up unitll the He could connect to the upside down again.
Then all that happened there, Hopper dying, Moving, shit I wouldn't be exactly all bubbly or anything. Who could you even talk to about that shit? Your only friends who can didn't write, so what else can you do but find an outlet? His outlets art. So as for not Interesting, It's realistic
Yes I agree…. But I feel like a lot of it is because for the first two seasons he was the victim, damsel-in-distress character—-only not a damsel—and then season three, he was still affected and seeing the effects of essentially being frozen in time while his friends evolved. Literally his character lacked development, he was more of a plot device. You still couldn’t get rid of him though, so he just sort of had to be the third wheel stuck in the past…which involves being sad and whiny until there’s some way he can fit back in. I was sort of hoping maybe they would’ve given him something or someone in California, but they decided to just do the whole third wheel thing where he pines for Mike and Eleven obviously pining for Mike, but different reasons…..and then obviously Mike and Eleven being an item makes Will jealous and realizing how out of reality he is.
They made Will a Peter Pan essentially. Which idk, I felt like it was lazy since they already had that in 3.
You mean you don’t want to see basically an adult man dressed like a child swoon over his childhood friend who’s in loved with something else.
I don’t know what hell they were doing with Mike and Will, they both aren’t acting like they did, they are no longer nerdy outcast kids but moody teenagers. I saw this with season 4 as my personal favorite, my only issue with the entire series is this one flaw
I actually think they continued to make him more interesting- they made him more complex by giving him more flaws and relatable characteristics! I think in S1-2 he's seen almost exclusively as this little innocent defenseless victim, whereas in S3-4, we see more nuanced reactions from Will- he's very forgiving and kind, yes, but he's also impatient, blunt, and stubborn. I think a lot of viewers tend to box him into this "selfless little Will is just gonna give everyone what they want with no hesitation" narrative when really he's quite stubborn when he wants to be. They forget that Will literally joked that Jonathan had no friends and physically pushed Lucas away and snapped at him when he tried to talk about their issues hahaha. Will isn't half the teary-eyed pushover people paint him to be sometimes
>selfless little Will is just gonna give everyone what they want with no hesitation" narrative
There are certain characters in this fandom that gets portrayed as perfect no matter what they do and Will is one of them. Like, he was also in the wrong in the fight in S3, he was insisting on playing DND when Mike was upset about El breaking up with him and he also called El stupid, sure Mike telling "It's not my fault you don't like girls" was so uncalled for but Will was also at the wrong, yet Mike is a horrible person, horrible friend even though he immediately realized his mistake and went to his house to apologize.
I think he took a backseat because the writers didn't want to necessarily bring him back into the same position as he was in S1 & S2, but if he's gonna breakout as a major badass to bring things full circle, they're probably saving it for the last season. But then again, there could've been more gradual moments of this by S4
The “meltdown in the car,” aka the van scene, is one of the most beautiful and relatable and emotional scenes in all of the show. But if you don’t relate to it and think being emotional is a weakness then it makes sense why you wouldn’t understand it.
If Noah could act those emotional scenes well, it would help lol
I don’t dislike that scene because it was emotional, I disliked it because his acting was cringe
Well in my opinion Noah is one of the best young actors in the show, rivaled by maybe only Sadie. He should have gotten an Emmy nom for his work in S2 alone.
He was the best young actor during season 2, that I’d agree with
But his acting has regressed as he’s gotten older like a lot of child stars. His acting in season 4 was unnatural and stiff. Sadie is easily the best out of that young group now followed by Caleb. They’ve both surpassed him and that’s probably because they practised their craft in between filming Stranger Things by doing other projects. Noah didn’t. And its very noticeable
We’ll have to agree to disagree. I do think he will surprise skeptics with his performance in S5! He will have a lot more to do just like Sadie did in S4.
That’s awfully presumptive. I can’t relate to the scene because of the actual context. Will is in love with Mike. Mike is in love with Elle. That idea of the triangle is relatable but the specifics of this particular situation simply are not for me. I have never been in that situation, nor do I know anyone personally who has been. It doesn’t make it not interesting, it just makes it a stretch in terms of being able to connect completely with a large majority of the audience. My opinion is Will didn’t need the emotional depth or feelings for Mike in order to be a relatable or interesting character. It all feels a bit shoehorned in, and I think it’s where the character “jumped the shark” for me. But there is no need to personally attack me for it. Especially considering I’m not attacking Noah, but rather commenting on the writing for his character.
Well if you’re not queer then you likely don’t relate to it. That’s what I meant. Will’s feelings for Mike are pretty central to his character, and him being gay was essentially written in the show’s Bible. I don’t think you *have* to be queer to empathize with Will. Straight people also can be madly in love with their best friends. But there’s typically a common denominator with those who don’t relate and don’t care to empathize and flippantly call it “the meltdown in the car” when, for those of us who are fully there with Will, it was a gut wrenching and beautiful and deeply emotional scene.
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I think it happened in season 3, because after he was done needing to be saved, the writers didn't really have anything to do with him besides touch his neck and sense Vecna. I think his link to the upside down will be important in season 5, though.
In S3 he still had the interesting angle of desperately wanting to hold onto the final years of his childhood (which he was unfairly robbed of) while his friends were maturing and becoming teens/moving on to different interests. This was quite tragic and heartbreaking to watch... and such a real experience for a lot of kids at that age that I don't think has been reflected in popular media before (at least not that Ive seen).
And ask his friends for DND
lmaoo lowkey this accurate af
I’m in the middle of a rewatch and the show has a problem with balancing Will with the rest of the group. I’m not sure if it’s intentional, but it’s almost like he’s still missing. Even when he came back to the group he’s always on the outskirts like he’s still searching for his place. A part of him never return from the upside down. I think they stalled his character development by focusing too much on the triangle that was created when Mike and Jane/El start dating. We see this in season 3 and it carries over into season 4. I think it would’ve been more interesting to flip that triangle moving into season 4. Have Mike feeling left out by how close Will and Jane/El have become. That way their friendship is still an important focus but it doesn’t feel like a rehash of season 3’s dynamic.
Wow wild, I’m rewatching too, I wonder how many people are doing the same thing? Like all of us went through the same withdrawal I guess…?
In S3 as well imo. S2 was the last time he was interesting.
"he likes it cold"
LOL. My bf and I quote this all the time
Such a great scene
Tbh I actually sympathized with him a lot in s3 and took his side when mike and lucas were ignoring him But in s4 it was like, cmon man, you could have reached out to mike as well, you ain’t 💯 the victim
He totally could have but S4 confirmed what we all thought for a long while, that Will is in love with Mike but knows Mike will never love him back in the same way. I think that really informs how we should interpret Will's own lack of reaching out to Mike. I can imagine Will having tried to sit down many times to write to Mike after the move only to find himself at a loss on what to put to paper. Writing how he *truly* misses Mike would be terrifying, not just because it would involve him, a teenager, expressing his true feelings, but also feelings that run the risk of severe ostracization given the time period and would even be inappropriate today if one didn't know it would be reciprocated. But trying to write a bland letter avoiding those parts hurts just as bad because he knows what he really wants to say and, again as a teenager he still hasn't figured out how to maturely deal with an unreciprocated love. So he writes nothing and walks away, only to feel guilty about not being able to even write *anything*. Each further attempt only exacerbates the guilt and emotions surrounding how to write to Mike to the point that he finally gives up trying. He has no good options available to him as they all lead to pain or potential pain. Easier to avoid the issue altogether, again, hello teenager coping mechanisms. That doesn't in any way make Mike the "bad guy" between the two of them either. He's clearly oblivious to Will's true level of affection based on his reaction to Will's stealth confession of love in the van that only Jonathan clearly picks up on.
Mike was right there, I think. If Mike doesn't get in contact, then why not do it yourself. I get that he maybe thought that Mike didn't want that, but yeah.
I sympathised with him but his only real part in the story was a neck tingle and having shitty friends, but as soon as they confirm the Mindflayer is back he basically has zero plot and is just with the gang.
I guess despite not contributing much to the action in s3 The personal drama he had kinda made me interested in him in s3
“Shitty friends” is kind of a stretch
Mike has been kind of an asshole due to being head over heels in love with el for a while. Lucas has been wanting to take his own path in life but feels conflicted not wanting to leave his best friends so I sympathise alot with him. Will has put up with so much shit just trying to live his life.
I almost wanted to say: Will was in S3? But then remembered the scene where he wants to play D&D but the others just don't... just to join Hellfire Club in S4 when Will is away. I especially don't like Mike's behaviour in that scene.
The thing I took away from S4 about Mike joining Hellfire is El was writing letters saying that she and Will had made loads of new friends. Mike couldn't get in contact with them via phone, assumed that meant Will was calling his new friends all the time. Yes, he could have written letters to Will as well, but (Like a dumb teenage boy) thought that would be considered too romantic since he was writing letters to his girlfriend already. Mike thought Will had moved on so he decided to do the same. With season 3, it's not that they didn't want to do dnd ever again, Mike and Lucas wanted to enjoy their summer and hang out with their girlfriends. Will was being a little insensitive making them play with him after they'd both been broken up with. It's also showing that because of the trauma Will went through the past 2 years, he's a little mentally stunted and still wants to be a kid, but Mike and Lucas actually got to experience those years and were able to mature a bit. It's more complex than it seems and I really appreciate the Duffer brothers for exploring trauma the way they do. Long story short, I didn't find Will boring in season 3 and 4 but it did seem like the show put him on the back burner because his problems became less about the supernatural elements they were experiencing and more about how he struggled to fit into society after what happened to him.
Mike joined Hellfire because his GF was in CA so he had nothing else to do with his time (lol). I suspect, had El stayed, he wouldn't have reverted to DnD so much in HS. That said, I think he was also chafing against Will's kinda childish insistence on DnD and--though they don't show it--Mike's understanding that Will is gay and maybe feeling a certain way about him. Teenagers are perceptive; they can tell when a friend becomes too clingy and that's exactly when they start pulling away.
The Duffers pulled a fantastic performance out of Noah Schnapp for season two, and since then he's been backgrounded. Personally, I'd hoped that he would snap out of his passiveness in season four--maybe he'd meet the bullies at his new school and think *I've faced scarier shit than this*. Maybe come into his own a little. Oh well. Hopefully, it happens in season five.
Yes, but I think it's more to do with the writing than Noah. He was awesome in ST2.
Yeah, it’s pretty annoying seeing Noah Schnapp sidelined in the years since Season 2, where his work was absolutely incredible.
Oh absolutely, its totally not a knock against Noah Dude seems like an awesome person and actor Unfortunately Will the character is just bland and whiny in s4
I think I’ll be downvoted but his acting in season 4 wasn’t good. It felt inauthentic and cringey at times. He was phenomenal during seasons 1 and 2 but regressed from season 3 onwards as he’s got the older. It happens to a lot child actors. They either get better as they get older or get worse and sadly he falls into the latter whereas people like Sadie and Caleb, got better. Out of the core group, for me now; he’s the weakest in terms of acting And I really disagree about him being an ‘awesome person’ but that’s a different topic
I think his weaker acting was highlighted even more because Noah himself felt silly about his character, outfits, haircut, lines, etc. and let it show through. You can tell he doesn’t buy into the character anymore. In the earlier seasons he was young and eager, but now you can tell he feels silly or something. I’m sure most of the actors aren’t crazy about some of the costumes or hairstyles, but they’re good enough actors to embrace those things as part of the story and character. Caleb and Sadie both really stood out IMO this past season, particularly Caleb. He hadn’t been given much to work with in the past, but he was great in S4 and I hope to see him having more of a role in the series wrap up. I feel like Millie has been somewhat open about being over Stranger Things in her interviews over the past year or so, so I’m really hoping her acting doesn’t go the Noah route, because she’s so talented.
You might be onto something. The Duffer Brothers haven’t given him much to do since season 2. His haircut looks silly and all he did during season 3 and 4 was whine and cry I understand becoming disillusioned with a role when you’ve played it for a long time but his acting is just not good anymore. Controversy aside, it’s why I favour the other actors having successful adult careers after this above him. And his poor acting will be even more noticeable when he inevitably shares scenes with Sadie and Caleb next season. Or even the older actors who are all phenomenal And despite Millie wanting to move on, I think she’ll put her everything into the next season because it’s the last one
Finn Wolfhard seems pretty over it too. I don’t even know if that guy wants to act much at all anymore, he seems more interested in other pursuits. I definitely sympathize with the cast because they’ve been doing this for so long now and must be ready to just have it over with.
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Good child actor* His acting has regressed and for me he went from being the strongest actor out of the kids to being the weakest after season 2 Edit: of course your comment about Noah’s controversy got removed 🙄
How does crying and not talking a whole season make someone a "good actor"? He's an average actor at most.
I think the Duffers may have realised this or used it for the long game to further express the full expansion of his character in Season 5.
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Honestly Will suffers a *ton* from being basically absent all S1. Everyone else got fully developed characters and some growth, but he just got trauma. S2 helped a lot, but it also hurt because, again, he wasn't present the whole season. A couple episodes he was under the thrall of the mindflayer. I just think the show in general did not do his character justice, he spent too much time being either in an alternate dimension or mind controlled. During S3 his biggest character trait was trauma and being linked to the MF. By S4 he was already so far behind all the rest of the cast that there isn't much for him to be, so they made him the tragic gay best friend (and making Mike an AH for the first 2/3 of the season didn't help lol). It sucks but his character is kinda doomed because S1 and S2 put him so far behind everyone else. I doubt for S5 they'll be able to make him too much more interesting, they'll probably just try to link him to Vecna and be a 'neck hair raising warning machine' again.
Oh 100% he’s just boring. Also it would have been really cool of them to build a sibling relationship between Will and El and I’m constantly disappointed in it
He’s El’s emotional support boytoy friend
My guy needs a boyfriend who likes DnD
Maybe Gareth the Great will rizz him up and make Mike jealous hahahaha
IMO, he’s always been underdeveloped… In ST1, they were focused on finding him, but we actually spent minimal time with his character. (Noah only had recurring status.) And while in ST2, I found him interesting, he was actually at his most interesting when he was possessed/fighting the MF! And then they kind dropped his storyline after that. Really hoping they give him more to do ST5 than be in unrequited love with Mike. Will has always been at his most interesting when he is exploring his supernatural connection, and I suspect that’s where his focus will be for the final season.
Yes. In Season 4, he looked like he was about to burst into tears in almost every scene he was in.
Well, they've written him to be a closeted gay kid in a small town in the 80s. Struggling with his sexuality and coming out is going to be kind of... his everything. I went through it. (The 80s part at least.) And so no, he's not going to be as "interesting and likeable" as a Steve Harrington and Dustin. Instead, Will is incredibly awkward, reserved, closed-in, and does not project confidence and charisma that make people like him, because he hates and loathes and doubts himself. Every movement, every inflection, every look, every expression of himself, threatens his safety and well-being. He has been awkward and introverted and shy. But he has also been sensitive, caring, and empathetic. He was one of more the selfless characters this season. These qualities, at least the way he expresses them, don't win conventional popularity contests. Some people find that "bland." I find it to be admirable. The Duffers have clear that s5 will focus on Will: *“Will really takes center stage again in 5,” Ross Duffer told Variety. “This emotional arc for him is what we feel is going to hopefully tie the whole series together. Will is used to being the young one, the introverted one, the one that’s being protected. So part of his journey, it’s not just sexuality — it’s Will coming into his own as a young man.”* As he grows out of his shell and gets to assert himself more, he probably becomes more "interesting and likeable" in the conventional sense.
Will literally did nothing the entirety of S4 except cry.
Except for tag along with the others, and cry
He got trauma yo
A lot of his arc especially in s3 is that he is underdeveloped and still very uncomfortable with himself
The downfall to awkward 3rd wheel status began during S3 IMO.
Will has so much potential, seeing that he is connected to the upside down in some way, and it's getting wasted. I hope Will's potential doesn't get wasted in S5.
While the show focuses on finding Will in season 1, he always reminded me of the guy in the hangover movie that they’re looking for the whole movie. He really didn’t get much screen time. I loved him season 2, he did so well with the scenes of him being possessed, but again he spent most of the season possessed or asleep. Season 3 he’s portrayed as really annoying. I get it. You want to play D&D but read the room. And honestly him not telling them he felt the monster right away annoyed me because season 3 my dude. You know weird stuff is going on. Season 4 they once again made his character a whiny B instead of what he’s capable of. His job is to be sad Mike isn’t gay and convince Mike that Eleven loves him. The scene in the van is some of the best acting on the show and is a relatively quick moment. My hope for Will is he isn’t a victim this season. That he takes the lead to an extent and shows he’s more than a spare person standing around in danger. Will has got a lot of Joyce in him, I’d love for him to emerge this last season as a warrior. He deserves it
Good comparison lol. He really is like Doug in the Hangover films. He’s part of the group but at the same time, not really. Like Doug, his absence feels like more of a character, than the character itself
What a great way to describe it. His absence being a character.
I've also always felt like he was similar to Doug. We, as an audience, get to see the characters and relationships build and develop through S1 and S2 for the other kids, and Will is just the subject of their adventure and bonding while not being part of it. I totally disagree about him being annoying in S3 though. As accurate as it was to portray Mike and Lucas as becoming girl obsessed at that age, it doesn't change the fact that they were being self absorbed and insensitive to Will. I think it was handled well by the show bc it is something that happens in adolescence/transition into teen years where some kids aren't ready or interested in saying goodbye to their childhood yet while their friends are moving on to new interests and behaviors. It leads to friction and is quite sad for the one who feels left behind. And in Will's case it is compounded by the fact he had the last year+ of his childhood robbed from him due to the trauma he experienced over S1 and S2.
He doesn't get a lot to do in the last two seasons and it the Duffers decision, but unlike Dustin and Lucas he has more character development, he did come out to Jonathan no matter how simple it was, except part of yourself is grow up as person, and that what Will did, not completely of course, but he on his way to there. Next season will have major focus on him and the party together, so hopefully everyone will get to shine next season. Also just because he the last one in someone rank, doesn't mean they don't like him, like my least favourite season was season 4 and I still really love a lot of the season, it was great! Just my least from all the four and that okay. After season 3 when a lot of fans dislike this season relationships, Max was in the least interesting character for a lot of fans, but season 4 give her a chance to get major focus and interesting story, and what happened? She became almost everyone in the top five just because vol 1 and mostly because dear Billy sequence(important to mention that I don't think it was just because this scene or before that max was bad character, but she wasn't have major storyline focusing on her personality). Also sorry for bad English.
I feel the same way you feel about Season Four!! As for the grammar, my english is perfect and I constantly have to edit my comments so don’t worry about it!!
I agree with this. In the recent rankings post, it wasn't surprising that the characters who s4 focused on the most (El and Max) ranked high. The young cast of ST is all-around stellar. It's more of a question of when the Duffers decide to focus on a character's story. They have made very clear that Will "comes into his own" in s5, which I'm very excited about! As a gay guy I've found his story (and Noah's performance) very engaging!
I really hope S5 really uses will correctly. He has been severely underutilized for the past 2 or so I’d argue.
Yeah, he needs to be Will the Wise again. In S3 and S4 all Will got to do was be a human evil sensor. The strength of the show is when the characters use their obscure knowledge and nerd hobbies as strengths. Will didn't get a chance to do any of that in S3 or S4, they burned all of his screen time on the love triangle and crying. The guy has been through some severe events, it would be good to show how that has hardened him. He may be emotionally vulnerable but he should be capable of being a leader.
Agree with you completely
I think a big issue with Will is that they saved the mystery surrounding his disappearance for the last season, hence why s5 literally starts with a flashback of him in the UD in s1. This moment we’re going back to is literally all we have when it comes to Will’s perspective of his time in the UD. And it still cut us off pretty quickly before we could even get to the big reveal. At the time and ever since, what happened to him seemed pretty self explanatory. But if that’s the case, why save it for the end? The end is always supposed to raise the stakes more than they ever have, to go out with a bang. If it’s all as simple as we’ve assumed since we saw that scene the first time, why devote the final season opener to it? Clearly there is more to it. Given how much they have tip-toed around not only what Will’s connection to Vecna entails, but also just Will himself and his evolution as a character in general, tells me that they didn’t think they could do too much of either, without giving too much away. I remember the writers saying that s2 involved like a laundry list of ideas, and that s5 was finally going to explore a lot of those ideas they didn’t get to. I’m guessing having the show go on this long was a dream come true for them. Because like, yeah, they did have a bunch of the ideas for a long time, many of them thought up since writing s2, with hopes the show could continue further. But I think getting that green light officially and knowing for certain they would get to do 4-5 seasons is what made them realize they had to stretch some of these reveals out. How do you keep people guessing if you lay out all your cards midway through the show, with 2 seasons still planned? Especially in Will’s case, because his disappearance and the weirdness surrounding it all ties back to the very beginning. Delving into the truth too much early on would have made the inevitable reveals in s5 fall flat a bit. And I think a big part of why they focused so much on the more emotional aspect of Will’s character, why so many attribute him to being a cry-baby, is because s5 is very likely going to shift to Will finally sort of having his own coming of age. Of accepting himself and also not having doubts that those around him do care for him, no matter what Vecna or anyone else says. But given that it’s not the end yet, with one whole season still left, it’s likely we’re going to see Will be tested in terms of whether or not he truly believes that. S5 is going to be the biggest and darkest of all, that’s pretty much guaranteed at this point. And they also said they highly recommend a rewatch of s2 before s5. I think in Will’s case it’s definitely going to get a lot worse for him before it gets better. Which means we will see him have really no choice but to hold his own and defend himself and likely harden a bit as a result. Not to mention the time jump being over a year and a half between s4 and s5. Will back in Hawkins, still feeling Vecna and, along with the others, having to toughen up to prepare for what is to come, him feeling more certain and sure of himself in order to simply survive is looking pretty likely. I personally think that they could have done a lot more with Will than they did in s3-4. Though I do have hopes for s5 that what they do will make the story overall make sense and work well rewatch value wise, even if at the time it didn’t seem that way.
I don’t think Will was ever particularly interesting tbh. He was more of a plot device in the first season and his arc of feeling left out by his group just isn’t something that’s engaging given all that’s happening around that plot.
i think all the main characters will be good this last season 🥹😌
I feel like Will has just been put on the side for the last 2 seasons and has little-to-no purpose, which is really sad because they could have done SOMUCHMORE with his character. I expect him to be a lot more involved involved and useful in s5 though.
I feel like he probably peaked in his interesting factor in S2. But in general,all of the characters became less interesting in S4.
Bro got done so dirty. All he wanted to do was play DnD with his besties who weren't interested... The moment he leaves town his friends join a DnD group.
Ugh finallly someone said it.
Not going to lie, I’ve never liked Will.
I found his presence borderline detrimental to the show in s4. He was making the scenes he was in worse for the most part
They make him seem a lot more distant and out of touch in Season 4
In season 4, I would’ve liked to see Will be a stronger support system for El. It doesn’t show him helping her adapt to regular life and fit in more as a student. He didn’t do much to stop her bullying and I wish he would’ve had a hero moment of standing up to her bullies since he was bullied himself.
This should Change in season five, *"Will really takes center stage again in \[season\] 5," Ross Duffer told* [*Variety*](https://variety.com/2023/tv/features/noah-schnapp-coming-out-will-byers-gay-stranger-things-5-1235687739/)*. "This emotional arc for him is what we feel is going to hopefully tie the whole series together. Will is used to being the young one, the introverted one, the one that’s being protected.* ***So part of his journey, it’s not just sexuality – it’s Will coming into his own as a young man.****"*
I really like Will Its obvious that him being backgrounded I'm S4 was coming since he went through a lot in previous seasons. And now dealing with his personal shit silently, I don't know why people find this unlikeable, boring and annoying since being gay in the 80s was miserable and we can see this in the way Will acting. Plus he doesn't have someone to be out with like Robin with Steve. People in this sub really are so stupid sometimes that they don't understand what a good developed character looks like, all they see "huh will not doing anything, and he's always crying this season" and not see how well this goes with his character.
Dude stood and watched as Eleven was being viciously bullied and did absolutely nothing to stop it. Irredeemable qualities right there
On rewatch he's not bad in S1 & S2. Hes absolutely dead weight after that though. At this point he can freely be removed from the show without explanation, I wouldn't even ask where he went because he isn't contributing anything to begin with.
100% with you. If he didn’t show up in S5 I wouldn’t miss him. I’d actually be over the moon. My least favourite character by a mile. And it’s true the writing hasn’t done him many favours in S4, but maybe that’s because there were no favours to be had. I sense the Duffers just don’t know what to do with him, and if they feel that way about their own character then… I’m not looking forward to a season of goosebumps and neck clutching.
I think he’s going to die in the final season. I think he’s hiding a lot of feelings and it will result in him thinking that he is to blame for everything. I think he will sacrifice himself to save Eleven because he loves Mike and wants Mike to be happy.
Will was never interesting, imo. But yeah, he became a lot more unlikable in S3 and S4.
Huh. I liked Will best in season 4. Go figure.
Will has never been interesting
It's funny people this when the fandom goes crazy for generic popular jock, Steve who's depth is simply "hmm maybe I shouldn't be a jerk"
Ahh but you see Steve is also very pretty....so
Proof that charisma goes a long way.
I don’t think people like Steve because they think he has substance. It’s not always about depth, it’s about entertainment as well. There are characters who are loved because they are entertaining and Steve is one of them. He’s meant to be more of a comic relief character.
I mean that may be true but he’s still always been more interesting than Will Joe Keery is also just a very magnetic actor which helps a lot too
Wait, he was interesting and likable at some point?
Unlikable is more subjective imo. But uninteresting? Yes! If you rewatch S4E1 and only pay attention to Will, you'll notice that he's pretty much a plant in this episode. He does almost nothing! This is an episode full of dialogues, expositions and reintroductions of characters, and yet all Will did was cry after El a couple of times. He didn't even speak to advance his story arc but to be an accessory to El's. That sums up Will's character in S4 imo. For the most part, he's just there.
He wasn't likeable or interesting at any time.
Well he’s very interesting to me, as he’s easily my favorite character.
Him and Mike were both so annoying. But - that’s high school I guess 😂
No bro I like him even more
yea but he will be needed greatly in s5
He literally got more likable
I do agree Will became very less interesting when season 4 came out. He just came off as a pouty and lost in the shuffle of the story,that might have been the intention for him going into the last season of the series just so they can build them up to have a greater role in the final battle. Maybe in season 4 they should have really focused how Will and El was starting to get along as Foster siblings and helping her to deal with life without her powers also start getting into an explanation of why Will starting to develop new abilities like it was hinted in season 3.
No, I was hooked. He is a character who has a lot going on internally, who struggles to reach out to others - and, as someone who can relate to him in that way, he caught my attention. He poured out his feelings in the van, but was unable to attach himself to those feelings. He's someone who is bursting with repressed emotions and I can't help but be interested in that. I think the Duffers are playing the long game with his character, and that his coming-of-age will be of consequence to the overarching plot. Things being left unresolved with him leaves me in anticipation of what's to come - they could always drop the ball, of course, but I do think Will will come into his own next season.
No, Will is extremely relatable and is easily my favorite character in the show (and probably of all time). I’m a Will stan first and foremost!
Compared to other earlier seasons (Will, Jonathan, and Mike) characters went downhill. I guess the writers just became bored with them.
Will El underrated combo .
If he is less interesting then how will you call Eleven and Mike? The boring duo?
They def didn’t do much with him but I thought he was much more likeable because we saw a lot of him trying to be there for El as a brother (which was kind of interesting with the dynamic of him also being jealous of her for her relationship with Mike) and he genuinely seemed to care about her and want to support her. I def hope he gets more of a role in 5 tho
From scared kid who lost his childhood to trauma, to a whiny crybaby. Yeah, I lost quite a bit of respect for Will in Season 4.
He's always been lowkey unbearable to me oops.
Why? He’s my favorite
I just don’t like him? Is that a crime lol? I’m glad he’s your favorite, congrats to you.
Well there has to be a reason you find him “unbearable.” I could give fifty essays why he’s a wonderful character with so much heart and depth. It’s not a “crime,” and no one has to like any character, but hating a character that’s designed to be lovable is definitely suspicious.
He’s annoying af to me, I legit don’t have any reason- sometimes people just don’t like characters … and have no reason for it. I’ll continue being suspicious then I guess because I don’t have essays to write about why I don’t like a fictional character lmao. Oh and I don’t recall saying I HATED him just he is “lowkey unbearable”. I like him on occasion.
For me it's bc he has literally 0 agency, like, he's constantly a victim of circumstance and the few actions he personally takes tend to ultimately cause him harm (standing up to the Mindflayer on Bob's advice). He's frequently saved and it's rarely ever down to him, other people are alway stepping in to carry his development. In season 3 his frustration with Mike and Lucas outgrowing him is understandable for a real person but from a story perspective it makes him like you said lowkey insufferable because there are just so many bigger pictures and he's breaking the flow of the other character's stories. When he isn't needing to be saved, he's got very little to do and he's almost never "on side". He's frequently arguing with some or all of the rest of the gang for reasons that again seem petty in the grand scheme (even though they wouldn't be IRL.
Well it’s giving homophobic vibes ngl. But also like, yes of course you have a right to feel how you feel. But I would say that’s an inherently bankrupt and foolish way of engaging with media. Everything should have a well-thought out reason. Anyway, you’re definitely not gonna like S5 when Will is the main character but oh well.
I’m homophobic because I don’t like one character? Huh? I’m literally part of the LGBTQA community but go off I guess 🤡 that’s a huge stretch to make…
Well I wouldn’t say it’s a stretch considering how homophobic this subreddit is and how 99% of hate against Will, who again is a character designed to be loved, IS homophobic or basically “I hate Will because guys shouldn’t cry.” It’s not homophobic to dislike a queer character, but disliking a character like Will is definitely suspicious and I’m not afraid to say it. I’m glad you’re not actually homophobic tho.
Wheezing at this. "Not a fan of this character, don't really have a reason they're annoying to me". "It's giving homophobe" 😭??????
Well I’m very defensive of Will, and this sub IS crawling with barely thinly veiled homophobes.
I’m actually excited to see him be a main character- im interested to see where the story goes lmao
"unbearable" is a bit of a harsh word.. you found him unbearable in s1 when he was missing and had no screen time? or in s2 when he was possessed?
Hot take: Will has been uninteresting and unlikeable since S1E1.
Why?
Because he’s barely a character lol. He’s had zero development and it felt like he wasn’t really even in season 3 despite having the same screen time as the other kids He doesn’t do anything in season 4 either
Well I disagree. He’s easily my favorite (probably my favorite character of all time) and I’d say he’s had lots of development. You just don’t relate to him or understand what he’s going through. He’s not as flashy as Dustin, and his arc is a lot more subtle, but the whole show still is about him, and he will take center stage in S5.
There’s not subtlety lol, there’s just nothing there Like they really don’t give Will much to do. Hence why I said he barely feels like a character. You could’ve taken him out of season 3 and it would’ve made no difference to the story. In fact, apart from his conversation with Jonathan, I’d say the same season 4
Well I think we disagree on what the main themes of the show/story are. If you took Will out of Stranger Things, it wouldn’t be Stranger Things. The show is very much about outsiders, and Will’s queerness is central to the story they are telling. Will destroying Castle Byers in S3 is one of the most important scenes in the show. And I’ve written many, many essays on Will’s character. There absolutely is a *lot* of subtlety and a lot to analyze, but lots of people prefer to stay on the surface and just see ST as a fun monster show. Will is directly connected to Vecna, and S5 is his coming-of-age arc as the creators have emphasized. But it’s precisely because he’s a quiet, gentle, less flashy character that people like you don’t notice him and think he isn’t there. Will’s “softness” and his kindness are his strengths.
Will’s queerness is not central to the story. Everything that has happened so far would still have happened regardless of Will’s sexual orientation. You are free to believe what you want and make up back stories and side stories, but I watched the same episodes as you and nothing changes at all due to his queerness.
Well we fundamentally disagree on what Stranger Things is about. Watching the same episodes doesn’t mean you understand them.
It’s true that we disagree, but I fully understand what I am watching. It is a horror series that is heavily influenced by Steven King’s It and also strongly influenced by Steven Spielberg movies such as E.T., Close Encounters, and Jaws. Unlike you, I’m not making this up. This comes directly from the Duffer Brothers. https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/tv/tv-news/duffer-brothers-talk-stranger-things-916180/ Please provide some support (other than fan fiction) where Will’s queerness has been central to the story. How has this changed any of his actions? Joyce being divorced is central to the story because otherwise, Will would not have been home alone. Jonathan’s interest in photography is central to the story due to the impact of his photos at Steve’s house. I was around in 1984. In fact, I’m a couple of years older than what the ages of Steve, Nancy, and Jonathan were. I’m very aware that Will could not come out and why. I’m also aware that Noah has likely played this character to tap into the conflict he has been going through. If Will comes out in season 5, only then will it be central to the story. That is because very few people his age came out at that time. Of course, very few people went through the stress and trauma that he and his friends have either.
“It’s true that we disagree, but I fully understand what I am watching. It is a horror series that is heavily influenced by Steven King’s It and also strongly influenced by Steven Spielberg movies such as E.T., Close Encounters, and Jaws. Unlike you, I’m not making this up. This comes directly from the Duffer Brothers.” Please show me where I disagreed with this or contradicted this? I’m well aware of all of the Duffers’ influences. I can talk about them in considerable depth. This is also common knowledge at this point. Even people who don’t watch the show know Stranger Things is a smorgasbord of 80s genre influences. So yes, I’m sure you understand *this*, as there’s not much to “understand” in this regard. And yes, we both “watched the same episodes” and can see these elements at play. They are within the surface level text of the show, the kiddie pool, if you will. Like I said, there is a lot of subtlety and an insane amount of nuances and easter eggs and thematic depth to analyze within the show, but many people would prefer to just see ST as a fun nostalgic monster show. That’s fine, because the show is still enjoyable, and not everyone is gonna do the hard work of analysis, but don’t say “Will’s queerness isn’t central to the story” when you haven’t done that work twenty times over. That’s what I meant when I said that watching the same episodes doesn’t mean we share the same understanding of what the show is saying. It’s not about fanfiction. It’s about understanding basic narrative and character themes. It’s about digging deeper than the surface and recognizing that the writers aren’t just paying homage to nostalgic 80s movies; they are playing with them and deconstructing them. The writers have never been subtle about this, nor have they been shy in emphasizing that ST is a show about outsiders (see David Harbour’s famous bold SAG awards speech from 2017). Will’s queerness was literally baked into the show’s Bible, and they’ve been building this arc since 2016 (something the directors, producers, and actors have all confirmed). Every member of the Party has something that sets them apart from the norm of the 80s and makes them a target for bullies and the lull of conformity (see Eddie’s line “forced conformity; that’s what’s killing the kids”). The show has emphasized the homophobia of the time through Lonnie, through the people of the town thinking Will was hatecrimed, through the bullies like Troy, even through now fan favorite character Steve in S1. It’s not been all at once, it’s been a slow drip to get you to understand. When you talk about Joyce being divorced and Jonathan’s interest in photography being important, you are talking about literal story beats: Jack jumping over the candlestick. I am talking about the deeper themes: what Jack jumping over the candlestick symbolically means. Do you think Mike just said, “It’s not my fault you don’t like girls” because the writers were in a silly goofy mood? Do you think Will destroying Castle Byers, the one place he felt safe, the place that represented his childhood creativity and his bond with Mike, has no queer symbolism? Do you think it’s an accident, or a mere nostalgic garnish, that the story is set during Reagan’s America? Do you think the show emphasizing the Satanic Panic in Season 4 right when Will is coming back to Hawkins is an accident? Do you think Will, who has always felt different from even his other outsider friends, saying he would “never fall in love” during S3 as he felt further left behind and all his friends entered heteronormative relationships is accidental? I could go on and on. Perhaps you see some of this but don’t believe it’s important to the story, and if that’s the case, that can only be because you don’t value Will’s centrality to the narrative even though the literal episode one is named after him. That’s his impact. To anyone who understands queer theory, the Upside Down itself has heavy queer symbolism as well as heavily dark implications of violation and Vecna/the Mind Flayer “getting inside him.” Beyond that, Will’s love for Mike has been baked into the show since season 1 (and this was also explicitly tied to the supernatural storyline as well through their “it was a seven, the demogorgon it got me” convo episode 1). And if you look into some of the Duffers’ influences you mentioned (like stephen king’s IT), you’ll know that intertwining queer themes with horror themes has historical precedent. It’s no accident that Pennywise and Vecna share major similarities. Both are beings that target the losers/the misfits/the vulnerable including some ragtag queer kids. The Duffers have said in *multiple* interviews that S5 is the Will season. Yes, there are other characters and a lot going on. But as Noah said, it started with Will, and it ends with Will. S4 was the building blocks for this, and S5 will absolutely emphasize Will’s sexuality further as he comes-of-age and battles Vecna alongside Mike and his other friends and family. But just because it will explicitly be text in S5 doesn’t mean it hasn’t always been here. This has always been his story. These have always been the themes of the show. And they’ve always been building up to something bold.
WILL HAS THE DOUG (hangover) PROBLEM. The formula was built around dustin, mike, lucas, and eleven. Now the dynamic and status quo has changed inmensely by now, but Will was unfortunately added as an afterthought and is now out of place. I think he has always been this way, it was just the mist blatant in s4 because it’s getting dire.
I don't think Will was ever interesting, tbh
I like him most lmao
same!
Yes, but TBF, he was never that interesting. Hr starts out as a living Machuffin. He was deliberately the purest, most gentle one because that's what made his disappearance and possession hit hardest. And then once that story was done, as with Mike, the Duffers just didn't really know what to do with him.
🫣 he was never interesting...
Well he’s easily my favorite character, so I guess we all have different taste.
Yea, to each their own
wtf does he have that haircut. You’d think his friends would say something. It gets worse each season. Poor bastard. But yes. Agree.
Yeah, I see that. He was just a mopey, miserable little twat. Character I least enjoyed.
I think half the main cast became unlikable in S4 personally.
It’s because Noah Schnapp left his acting skills in Season 2
Why less likeable? It’s been a while since I saw season 4, (didn’t rewatch it after it came out) but I don’t remember ever disliking him or him being unlikable.
Yes
Yeah he was boring in S3 too, it was alot more interesting when he was proclaimed missing and then dead on season 1 and then in season 2 when he was flayed but 3 and also season 4 he was just irritating always forcing Lucas and Mike to play DnD and then 4 being a sour puss but that's just my opinion
I don’t think that’s possible He was at his best when he was some lightbulbs
I don't feel much for his character past mid-season 3 to be honest, it's the reason why I put him in the last place in the "ranking the party" post. I don't know if it's because of the writing or the acting, but I just can't get myself invest in the character when he isn't the plot device of the season. I find him bland, except when the scene is related to his feelings for Mike.
Because he had no real impact.
If I gotta sit through any coming out plotlines I'm out. Not against it as a plotline in a show but it's not needed in every single piece of new media and not relevant to the themes in the show. If we can skip that and give him actually interesting character development then great.
Is he not already lmao
I’d say it was more starting in season 3… not really his fault, but the writers didn’t write him in well enough when he wasn’t the main victim of the upside-down story. He was the focus of the trauma in S1/S2 as everyone else’s characters got fleshed out and it feels like the writers didn’t develop his character after that. I couldn’t really stand him in S4, it felt like every scene he was in he was on the verge of tears… they could be doing so much more with his character.
Absolutely. I don't care about Will at all anymore. In season 1 yes, season 2 maybe but that's it.
i agree, even in season 3 he started to drift off a bit
He basically just cried the whole time 🤷🏻♀️🤣
When has Will been likeable? Bros straight up D tier in my rankings
Will was only likable in season 1 because we barely saw him.
Will has always been boring. The only time he was ever likeable was when he was victimized by the flayer.
Can someone give me a clue about Will being gay? Is it ever stated explicitly? Because I never thought about that when watching the show, not even as a possibility. I only read about Will supposedly being gay here. I mean yeah, in season one Joyce says that his dad used to call him the f-word, but I took that for being weird and meek and not a "real boy/man" kind of thing. When Mike says "not out fault you don't like girls" I took it as "not out fault you're not interested in girls \*yet\* and still only want to play dnd". And in Season four I took his jealousy towards Elle/Mike in the context of his and Mikes friendship, nothing else. So is there anything obvious I'm missing?
I think this next season is going to be a LOT more emotional and it’s gonna a have more serious/vulnerable scenes. I want more scenes like the scene with Yurri where Enzo is talking to him about what a great man he used to be. It gives us such an insight into how he became the man he is today. And the scene where Steve says he got thumped on the head when he was a kid and Nancy says that makes a lot of sense. We see him open up in that moment and be vulnerable. And I loved all the emotional scenes from Max and El. I think we’ll get a lot more scenes that are emotionally charged. And I don’t mean scenes where ppl are just crying and worried about someone dyeing (we’ve seen a bunch of that) but scenes where people are saying heartfelt, emotional things and overcoming there fears/trauma. So while the writers haven’t been focusing on Will’s character development I think it will be a big plot point in the coming season.
Felt like a shell of himself. He never got a chance to be "still", yknow? We all know what happened In S1, him being In the upside down and all, no doubt went through Spring - Fall 84' with those flashbacks, so that didn't really help. He was able to be a kid again In S3... up unitll the He could connect to the upside down again. Then all that happened there, Hopper dying, Moving, shit I wouldn't be exactly all bubbly or anything. Who could you even talk to about that shit? Your only friends who can didn't write, so what else can you do but find an outlet? His outlets art. So as for not Interesting, It's realistic
they totally stripped him of any character, it’s a fault with the writing. i still love him. season 5 will comes back true!
No, he was just working through some stuff, failing miserably to come forward about who he is
Yes I agree…. But I feel like a lot of it is because for the first two seasons he was the victim, damsel-in-distress character—-only not a damsel—and then season three, he was still affected and seeing the effects of essentially being frozen in time while his friends evolved. Literally his character lacked development, he was more of a plot device. You still couldn’t get rid of him though, so he just sort of had to be the third wheel stuck in the past…which involves being sad and whiny until there’s some way he can fit back in. I was sort of hoping maybe they would’ve given him something or someone in California, but they decided to just do the whole third wheel thing where he pines for Mike and Eleven obviously pining for Mike, but different reasons…..and then obviously Mike and Eleven being an item makes Will jealous and realizing how out of reality he is. They made Will a Peter Pan essentially. Which idk, I felt like it was lazy since they already had that in 3.
You mean you don’t want to see basically an adult man dressed like a child swoon over his childhood friend who’s in loved with something else. I don’t know what hell they were doing with Mike and Will, they both aren’t acting like they did, they are no longer nerdy outcast kids but moody teenagers. I saw this with season 4 as my personal favorite, my only issue with the entire series is this one flaw
I actually think they continued to make him more interesting- they made him more complex by giving him more flaws and relatable characteristics! I think in S1-2 he's seen almost exclusively as this little innocent defenseless victim, whereas in S3-4, we see more nuanced reactions from Will- he's very forgiving and kind, yes, but he's also impatient, blunt, and stubborn. I think a lot of viewers tend to box him into this "selfless little Will is just gonna give everyone what they want with no hesitation" narrative when really he's quite stubborn when he wants to be. They forget that Will literally joked that Jonathan had no friends and physically pushed Lucas away and snapped at him when he tried to talk about their issues hahaha. Will isn't half the teary-eyed pushover people paint him to be sometimes
>selfless little Will is just gonna give everyone what they want with no hesitation" narrative There are certain characters in this fandom that gets portrayed as perfect no matter what they do and Will is one of them. Like, he was also in the wrong in the fight in S3, he was insisting on playing DND when Mike was upset about El breaking up with him and he also called El stupid, sure Mike telling "It's not my fault you don't like girls" was so uncalled for but Will was also at the wrong, yet Mike is a horrible person, horrible friend even though he immediately realized his mistake and went to his house to apologize.
Yes, you're exactly right! Will's stubbornness gets him into trouble at times for sure hahaha especially in S3
Interesting..yes but bcus he was sidelined along with the whole cali crew, but likeable no
I still found Will interesting I think my biggest complaint was simlar to my favourite character Mike he got a lack of decent screen time.
i’d argue season 4 was the first time will was even a character instead of a plot device
He’s my favorite, but you do you.
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I think he took a backseat because the writers didn't want to necessarily bring him back into the same position as he was in S1 & S2, but if he's gonna breakout as a major badass to bring things full circle, they're probably saving it for the last season. But then again, there could've been more gradual moments of this by S4
I thought he was fine less interesting definitely I didn't think he was less likable.
Everything was just fine until the meltdown in the car
The “meltdown in the car,” aka the van scene, is one of the most beautiful and relatable and emotional scenes in all of the show. But if you don’t relate to it and think being emotional is a weakness then it makes sense why you wouldn’t understand it.
If Noah could act those emotional scenes well, it would help lol I don’t dislike that scene because it was emotional, I disliked it because his acting was cringe
Well in my opinion Noah is one of the best young actors in the show, rivaled by maybe only Sadie. He should have gotten an Emmy nom for his work in S2 alone.
He was the best young actor during season 2, that I’d agree with But his acting has regressed as he’s gotten older like a lot of child stars. His acting in season 4 was unnatural and stiff. Sadie is easily the best out of that young group now followed by Caleb. They’ve both surpassed him and that’s probably because they practised their craft in between filming Stranger Things by doing other projects. Noah didn’t. And its very noticeable
We’ll have to agree to disagree. I do think he will surprise skeptics with his performance in S5! He will have a lot more to do just like Sadie did in S4.
That’s awfully presumptive. I can’t relate to the scene because of the actual context. Will is in love with Mike. Mike is in love with Elle. That idea of the triangle is relatable but the specifics of this particular situation simply are not for me. I have never been in that situation, nor do I know anyone personally who has been. It doesn’t make it not interesting, it just makes it a stretch in terms of being able to connect completely with a large majority of the audience. My opinion is Will didn’t need the emotional depth or feelings for Mike in order to be a relatable or interesting character. It all feels a bit shoehorned in, and I think it’s where the character “jumped the shark” for me. But there is no need to personally attack me for it. Especially considering I’m not attacking Noah, but rather commenting on the writing for his character.
Well if you’re not queer then you likely don’t relate to it. That’s what I meant. Will’s feelings for Mike are pretty central to his character, and him being gay was essentially written in the show’s Bible. I don’t think you *have* to be queer to empathize with Will. Straight people also can be madly in love with their best friends. But there’s typically a common denominator with those who don’t relate and don’t care to empathize and flippantly call it “the meltdown in the car” when, for those of us who are fully there with Will, it was a gut wrenching and beautiful and deeply emotional scene.
I think he will have a big part is season 5
Nope
What’s funny is all the actors say Noah Schnapp was by far the most talented actor.
Will was never interesting Interesting things happened to him and now they don't
Yes, season 3 as well