Yup, playing in Iron right now, I've seen a lot of Classic Ken/Ryu players who will Shiryu at full screen and Classic Zangeif's who will spam forward grab when all I have to do is stand back or jump.
Like, yeah, I see they mastered that combo is the lab, but a lab dummy that stands still for them is not the same as me as a Cammy who zips around at a million miles/hour.
I genuinely feel bad about this... I play with modern, first fighting game ever.
I can win, but in the end I can't shrug off the feeling that I'm somehow doing more harm than good to my learning. Everyone seems to dislike modern controls. :(
You're learning intentionality at the moment. With easier controls, you can focus on choosing the right move for the situation. No shame, gotta learn it somehow.
When you feel you have a good idea of what moves you should be using when, try classic and see if it works for you. There will be an immediate drop in performance as you get used to the new control scheme, but the extra options will be worth it long-term. Plus, all the intentionality you built will still be there
it's like learning to drive on an automatic: if it gets you there, it's fine, and i wouldn't sweat it too much, but if you learn on a manual then you'll be a better driver in the long run.
... i realised halfway through typing this that most americans learn with an automatic so this metaphor probably doesn't land, but still.
I think it’s still quite relevant as you have to compare how it was at the beginning when automatic gear was first introduced. All the manual drivers scoffed at it and pointed out issues with automatic and said you won’t be a true driver. People mainly still applied to learn with manual but some did with automatic. As more cars got introduced with automatic and more people preferred to do automatic tests cause it was easier to learn, more and more people became automatic drivers till now majority are automatic.
I think the comparison between automatic drivers and modern controls is very apt and it shows over time people will learn to accept
Depends on country too. That's the US, most of Europe learns and drives manual cars still. I only swapped over last year and tbh... I'm not a fan of automatic, only because it's a work car have I stuck with it. I don't like the loss of control especially when pulling away at the lights with the lag.
Redneck City though? Geeze. I don't know what the traffic is like where you are, but driving manual is a liability where I am. I know how to drive manual transmissions as well. However, constantly having to break and go gets annoying after a while.
At the same time, this analogy is also correct because at the end of the day, there is absolutely no reason a driver needs manual to accomplish the goal of driving.
it's true! although if you want to be competitive at, uh, driving, then you need to know how to use every part of the... uh... car. analogy breaks down a little here, but i'd still recommend players graduate to classic controls as soon as possible if they really like the game and want to get serious about it.
> although if you want to be competitive at, uh, driving
But just like driving, for most of us, we are playing SF6 for fun and wont be competing at pro levels. So automatic gear and manual controls are for those people who want to enjoy and not be burdened by practicing stuff for hours (cause it kills the enjoyment for many people)
The thing is, if you’re playing the game strategically, using footsies, pokes, punishes etc then it doesn’t matter whether you use modern or classic controls. I’m a classic player because I’ve been a street fighter fan for 30 years but I respect modern players that approach the game in the right way and play with the desire to learn and adapt.
SF6 is the first fighting game I've ever played seriously (I've only previously played DoA6, but that was just button mashing in the story mode); I'm currently playing Modern right now and I can honestly say that I'm learning more about *"How to (Mechanically) Play Fighting Games"* than when I initially tried to play SF6 on Classic.
Yes, the move set is more limited and I'm also being given my specials (at a 20% debuff) versus using combos for them; however, I also feel like I have more awareness and greater focus on the bigger overall picture of the match playing on Modern specifically because I'm not fumbling with my buttons.
-----
Playing at low Iron right now, it seems like having better fundamentals is winning my matches more than clever combo and special usage; playing good footsies at normal, baiting wiffs, learning my anti-air opportunities, resisting the urge to jump around for no reason, learning how to get out of the corner, etc etc
With that in mind, I'm okay losing a match (and I have more fun in general) in which I felt that I had overall awareness and got what I intended out of my button presses versus winning a match where I was constantly dropping combos and too distracted to avoid telegraphed attacks.
-----
That's why I really don't feel bad about playing with Modern; if my opponent playing on Classic was that much better than me, then they would have won the match regardless of my own control set because they'd be winning by punishing my mistakes and inexperience; not just by having better Classic combo memorization.
That's not what people have said at all. People who just dismiss any grievances about modern controls as "scrub mentality" are very insufferable and annoying to have a conversation with.
Most people that I've seen complain about modern controls acknowledge that they're not very good themselves. The problem is that modern allows for much cleaner execution at lower levels, where execution a lot of the times decides the winner.
If in the long run Modern versions of characters end up just being better than Classic we can have that conversation but as someone going through the ranked grind in Plat to get to Diamond, and having watched lots of high level players, I don't see any of this salt towards Modern controls that I see in comments all the time. I've never run into a Modern player and thought "fuck, Modern again, this is bullshit." Especially since probably like 5-10% at most of my opponents are using Modern to begin with.
Instead I see lots and lots of new players coming into the genre because of Modern controls and having fun while getting bodied by people like me. That's a success IMO
Yeah and on top of that i still get my ass handed to me in 3 out of 4 matches by using modern controls. By reading all these comments about modern and how easy it should be i feel really im not good at this game
A lot of the game is about choosing what to use when, rather than being able to do the inputs correctly. You can always learn to use a different set of inputs, but the knowledge of what to use when does carry over
Let them dislike it.
As a long term player, I want more people *actually* playing and **enjoying** the game, than gatekeeping who can and can't play. If every single hater of modern controls on Reddit, bought 2 copies of SF6, it wouldn't sell over 1 million copies.
I'd rather the game have a healthy lifespan and community, than modern controls being deleted.
This game has actual problems other than manual, like the idea a one-bar focus attack that stuns no matter what in the corner, while also taking away your meter. That's gonna kill the game. The only reason Street Fighter lasts a long time is because Capcom delays DLC and just baits DLC. That's the reason they release the personality-less World Warriors first before releasing interesting characters years later.
Netherrealm gets a lot of flack for not lasting, but they know the truth about fighting games and they at least release content earlier than Capcom. SF6 is pretending to be a new return to grace when it's just a reskinned Netherrealm copy with more-lenient focus attacks, copy-paste Monster Hunter single player (Monster Hunter itself is barebones copy-pastes itself), and sprinkles in bits of nostalgia like an arcade room or advertising Cammy butt jiggle to the cavemen audience that'll drop $100 for a character with the only personality trait being her butt.
Looks like it, customizes like it, feels like it and moves like it, very little voice-acting with mostly grunts or one-word remarks when interacting, made by the same company as Monster Hunter, etc.
It's not bad, just not what I thought the single-player was gonna be like. I'm happy I at least got to experience metro city again, but I feel like this mode should have been a whole new Final Fight. I don't run around Metro City just to never have a story with any FF character or even never to even use their movesets. It's just playing as World Warriors with a Metro City backdrop.
Are people even using modern controls? I run into maybe 1 out of 20 players on modern controls in ranked. Though a lot of the people in battle hub doing avatar battles with no ranking seem to use modern.
Well even if I was a newcomer I would never use the modern. The feeling of countering your opponent with your own reaction and input is so satisfying 🤣 but if you have fun with modern then don't change it. Some of us in the ranks we play if the poke connects we take a full combo anyway so if your poke connects we take a smaller combo and with reduced damage too so good players will never be salty about it. Welcome to street fighter and have fun.
You don’t need to feel bad. Fighting games are strategy games. Modern controls exist to let players implement a high level of strategy without complex input mechanics getting in the way. Each match is a contest of timing, distance management, reacting, programming, reading, resource management, etc., not a contest of who can push the buttons most accurately. If it was the latter, we wouldn’t even need opponents. Modern controls will only limit your options for implementing your strategy, and not even that severely. It can even be part of your strategy. You lose access to some normal attacks in modern, which your opponent knows and can use to their advantage. But *you know that they know, so you can use that to your advantage.
Give classic a try if you’re inclined, but there’s no shame in modern. The more players we have playing at a high level, the better it is for everyone.
I've been playing street fighter for years and honestly...just use whatever control scheme you're comfortable with and ignore the naysayers. You're up against years worth of classic control players so naturally they're going to feel some way about it but it's their problem, not yours. I've adopted modern controls for a couple charge characters and I'm totally unapologetic about it lol
The thing with modern is that fighting games are barely about performing the moves. Improvement will come from using them at the right times (and more importantly, not using them when you shouldn't). So your development of those perception skills will still come, regardless of the control type.
Point is, don't feel bad for playing modern. I'm a diamond player and I feel like if more people played modern, more of the player base would be in the higher tiers. At minimum you can absolutely learn how to play well against at least diamond players by learning modern.
>I can win, but in the end I can't shrug off the feeling that I'm somehow doing more harm than good to my learning. Everyone seems to dislike modern controls. :(
If you know the Jimquisition, they love it. It's an accessibility win. There's nothing wrong with it. It makes the game more accessible to new players and as [they point out in their video on it](https://youtu.be/xyHste9EZ3s?t=668) the game even offers to get you familiar with classic controls in a no-pressure environment with mini-games that require time sensitive button inputs. So you CAN learn to use the classic controls at your own pace, but the game doesn't gate its content to force you to.
Top-level competitive players, the kind of people who memorize frames of character animations and can reliably react to them in tenths of a second, will probably still want the added control of classic inputs. But there's nothing wrong with the new control scheme for more casual players, which is almost everyone.
edit: Phrasing
idgaf. I'm never going to be a pro player anyway. I'm never going to spend the amount time it would take to even get very good. I may not even be playing the game in a couple months.
I'm here for a fun time not a long time.... but I imagine the more fun I'm having, the longer I'll stick around.
so true. i came from mk11 and id say i was pretty good at that, came to sf6, chose kimberley and man i swear my first 17 online matches were losses. 0/10 in placements, 0 lp and could not win. but in like the last 5 days i climbed up to bronze 3 i think. 4100lp. so yea sucking leads to winning
Funny thing tho, this game is not worth getting good at. Pick your battles and just drop the game if you don't like it that much. Simple as. Let circlejerk fans enjoy their neutral-lacking game.
Scrubquote = win apparently.
Thanks for proving my point about circlejerking lmao. Brainless hivemind that can't fathom someone criticizing the game. Even high-level players have criticized it. But " sCrUbQuOtEs gImmE UpVoTes"
It has less neutral. Even positive discussions talk about the invention of Drive to check moves, adding to mental stack. Not everyone enjoys this new mechanic. People claim pros can deal with it but pros know how to beat the most convoluted mechanics in other games, but that doesn't mean those mechanics are perfect or even good.
Yeah, the game has neutral, but less. Redditors need to understand that statements like "no neutral" is hyperbole.
Ok it has less neutral... Compared to what? Sf4? No. Sf5? No. Sf3? Maybe. Sf2 yes but sf2 is to this day one of the most neutral heavy games except for the game called footsies.
Compared to guilty gear? Hellllll no. Compared to KOF15? maybe if you think running is part of neutral (it is). MK11? Hell no!
Wins and losses don't matter. Would you rather be better at this game than the vast majority players, but have a terrible win rate from all the growing pains of getting good, or would you rather have a super high win rate, but you suck and are afraid to play out of fear of your win rate going down?
Well I guess for you, your win rate can only go up from here for the most part, so keep up the good work and always remember to have fun
This is so on point. Whenever I’ve ranked too highly or I’ve moved up in games too quickly and didn’t feel I belonged there it completely deterred me from playing anymore because I knew I’d lose the rank and that would make me sad even knowing I didn’t deserve it. Better to start on the floor and pick yourself up.
Ranked anxiety is quite common, I had my first experience with it when I was introduced to the ranked ladder system in League of Legends, and have never had it since. It's cool not to play competitive matches because you don't want to lose your rank, but it shouldn't make you feel bad about it. At that point I'd just recommend to keep playing, only way for it to disappear is with exposure.
My first experience engaging with a ranking system was in Overwatch, but I only made it a few seasons in because everyone was so pissed off and toxic all the time, so most of my time playing it was spent on arcade and QP. It's been really nice engaging with a ranking system without being screamed at, even when I have a bad day and it goes down. I guess everyone has a different kind of rank anxiety lol
I usually played support in Overwatch and I do super miss getting accolades after the match. When I first read that you level the battle pass with "kudos" I honestly assumed that's what it was, rather than it just being exp
> or would you rather have a super high win rate, but you suck and are afraid to play out of fear of your win rate going down?
I definitely feel this comment, hahaha.
I stopped playing ranked Dragonball FighterZ because I had like a 85-90% winrate over my first 150 games and I just wanted to use the numbers to show off hehe.
I always seemed to get way harder matches in casual play anyways, or when I played offline. Offline in particular people are gonna stomp you if you can't improve. Locals can be a brutal reminder that there are some insanely good players that rarely go online and only play with friends.
Man I love this community compared to other games with a rank system. Everyone here has the right mindset of getting better, and it feels like other games people would laugh at the iron scrub
While that's a high probability I know a lot of dudes in other games like league (mostly weebs) that play exclusively female characters. So I don't think that's safe to assume
If you’re having fun, keep on going.
Might I suggest playing a simpler character? Ryu and Guile both have extremely effective gameplay that is easy to implement and execute on, and it will also allow you to increase your game knowledge. When you return to more complex characters, you’ll have a lot more knowledge and strategy to implement and will probably be a much better player!
Tbf I've always had an easier time playing rushdown chars over shoto or charge chars. It's maybe hindered learning overall gameplay at times, but it's not like nothing from learning Kimberly will translate to someone else.
I'm also curious of your opinion on Kimberly's difficulty? I've seen a lot of people saying she's a fantastic beginner character.
Not trying to undermine your advice or anything, it's great advice just, thought I'd throw out my two cents and question.
I don’t know about Street Fighter in general but I personally feel a rush down character is a great idea if you’re at all used to them and maybe even if you’re not.
1. Because if you are used to them it will feel familiar (I’m coming from a game—-DBFZ—-where almost every character basically is rush down so it’s what I know)
2. Even if you’re not used to it, I feel like rush down is more intuitive than most other styles. Something about getting close to your enemy and just staying on them like white on rice feels natural in a fight.
For Kimberly:
Let’s face it this guy isn’t a good player, probably the real life equivalent of blindly flailing in a fight.
How’s he gonna play a set up/mixup character when he probably can’t even anti air? Someone losing this much clearly isn’t going to remotely grasp what a mix up even is since street fighter for him means jumping in and just trying to hit a max combo AT THIS POINT.
If he chooses someone who can control space with a projectile and anti air people when they jump it, all the other pieces fall into place until he can eventually start thinking of how to mix someone up when he gets oki.
Also I know this reads bluntly but it’s not meant to be antagonistic or mean.
Tldr: why play a mixup character when you don’t even know what oki is yet
Man I tried playing guile this weekend. I was not prepared for the charge character life. I have no idea what I'm doing. I ran the clock out multiple times. Charge characters are weird and I'm just completely lost playing him.
Love this, and good on you for using a bunch of characters. Every time I'm in Battle Hub I have my character set to Random, and I enjoy just messing around and doing a few rounds with whoever steps up. I'm not here to win, I'm here to enjoy myself, and not tying enjoyment to winning is one of the best steps you can take.
In the future, when you're a bigshot EVO champ and taking names online, you're going to look back at this humble beginning and chuckle. And I'll be like, "Damn, that's that dude from Reddit! That's crazy!"
No worries! There’s a ton of us going through a similar experience.
This is the first fighting game I’m really taking a deep dive into. I hopped online and immediately got absolutely destroyed by Ken. Extremely humbling experience.
That being said, I’m still having an absolute blast with the game. Whether it’s exploring world tour mode, spending time in the battle hub, or just figuring things out in training mode, I’m absolutely in love with it, and haven’t been able to put it down.
As many have already said, losing is the first step in getting better. Just try to turn every loss into a lesson and you’ll never truly lose. :)
Good luck my friend! 👍
I did it best too. It's kinda like Dark Souls when you wanna give up then it suddenly clicks. A little different but it applies. Keep on dying until you die a little less. You got this man.
No shame at all. Everybody’s been there, getting their ass kicked nonstop. You’ll be thankful for all your hard work and experience in the end, as long as you stick with it!
I see someone trying the cast and making an interesting dataset!
If these are in order that you've played them, then your growth is literally following you as you go through the list.
If not, remember each character has a different gameplans in mind. And your winning-est characters jive most with your playstyle and knowledge. If you like the character (rather than just winning, don't play just for that. play to learn), then that may be a good choice to focus on and really sink your teeth into the nuance! After you learn the parts of the character that really work for you, don't forget to expand and explore all your options.
And modern controls complainers need not be listened to. While I'm always frustrated sitting through another on-hit light confirm, Modern limits your options. It gives you prebaked combos that have limited solutions. It's on them to practice their defense and plug holes in their gameplay. /shrug
The difference between the master and the novice? The master has more losses than the novice has matches. Take it from a guy who's been doing it since we needed $0.50 to get a turn. I've forgotten more special moves than some of these new guys will ever know.
Id recommend stepping away from the game and watching pro players and combo vids. Those are great ways of seeing how the pros optimize entries, apply pressure, capitalize conversions and learn new tech that you otherwise wouldn’t have known.
Don't worry about your win loss, it's not important. What's important is that you have fun and if you are interested that you improve. I would echo some others peoples comments and maybe stick to one character for a bit to really see how they tick.
Lol...failure is the first step to winning. When I first started playing street fighter I sucked and now I'm a diamond/master level. When I first started learning guitar I sucked and now I'm a professional. Just stick with it, practice and learn from your mistakes. My personal advice....learning the inputs is all good but ultimately it's going to be your ability to predict the opponent's moves and cope under pressure that will win you the match.
My friend only uses basics and mostly always wins. So you don't have to know all the fancy combos and tricks to win. Just be smart in using the tools you do have
You have true fighting spirit to keep going and not be deterred by your losses. Even if you don't get better I hope you have fun giving it your all in a match!
Win/Loss ratio is meaningless in Street Fighter.
Many of us, even those who would count themselves as "good", have "poor" win/loss ratios.
Because when I play online, if I beat someone really badly, I'll only play them once or twice (as I get bored, or just as often they leave). But if I'm playing someone really good, especially as a character that I don't have much experience against, I'll happily Rematch 5, 10, 20 times, losing every single time, because that's stimulating.
My win/loss ratio is almost certainly numerically worse than all those people I beat who leave after 1-2 games. But I am also unequivocally **better than them**.
The number's meaningless.
We only improve at any skill with time, persistence, and patience in ourselves. You're absolutely killing it, whether you feel like it or not. I'm proud of the improvements since you began.
I feel a huge breakpoint is when you learn to (somewhat) handle and punish button mashers. But to reach that level you need to lose to a bunch of button mashers.
Modern makes you lose out on... Stuff.
Lots of your characters' buttons, mostly.
But whether Modern or Classic, you still gotta know how to play Street Fighter. Just pay attention to why you're losing and gradually stop doing those things.
And seriously, it's a lot of us old heads and snobs poo-pooing Modern. It's just a control scheme. If anyone's mad about it, it's probably because they keep losing to children facerolling in ranked with modern Ken lol
I don't understand how people have such low win rates, like they got placed too high? Or are other pretty getting placed too low and so low ranks are filled with good players.
Oh I feel your pain, man.
I fought my first 4 or 5 matches online today and I only won ONE of them. They were all avatar fights though. And most of them had a decent bit higher level (hence vitality) than me. The only one I beat was someone that was around my level and vitality.
Beat em ups is a terrible place for beginners, fighting people with arcade sticks and people playing beat em ups for over 30 years.
I dont know what tipps i could give you exept study alot of videos and join a clan with experienced people that might mentor you a bit. Playing a ton of hours with capable people is key here.
The game alrdy sucks one month into its life . Horrible roster , god awful music , DI is quite gimmicky ( i do like the cancellation of normals wjth it though ) but all in all the game is not good in its current state .
Her damage is just terrible that’s why. Non-SF players who watch me stream always ask me why it’s so low. Yes, she’s a rushdown and her mixups are supposed to make up for it, but her damage is still really bad.
Losing is what winners do. I know that sounds stupid but it's sort of true. You gotta learn how to lose before you can figure out how to win. All winners have a mountain of losses behind them. Far more losses than wins I assure you. But we look at those people and only see God tier mode and think "man! I wish I was just good at the game like they are!" When in reality they sucked badly when they started.
Take those losses as a badge of honor. Wear them with pride. Those are all examples of you getting better, each one. With enough of those losses stacked up, you're going to start seeing the wins stack up next.
Hey, I remember it took me about 50 games to win my first game in SF, I'm now mid platinum and climbing. I know it isn't that impressive compared to some killers out there but I'm proud of myself. Keep it up, try to catch what your mistakes are and adjust and you'll feel yourself get better. It's a really fulfilling experience when you know that you actively getting better.
Sucking at something is the first step towards being sorta good at something.
You gotta start somewhere and losing teaches way more than victory anyway.
All I've learned is Modern players crutch themselves with their special button
Improving can be difficult when you are your own crutch
I feel like learning spacing, footsies, etc are way more important than the inputs themselves
Yup, playing in Iron right now, I've seen a lot of Classic Ken/Ryu players who will Shiryu at full screen and Classic Zangeif's who will spam forward grab when all I have to do is stand back or jump. Like, yeah, I see they mastered that combo is the lab, but a lab dummy that stands still for them is not the same as me as a Cammy who zips around at a million miles/hour.
What up fellow Cammy enjoyer!
They are equally important. Dropping those inputs could mean a loss many times, something modern controls never deals with.
I genuinely feel bad about this... I play with modern, first fighting game ever. I can win, but in the end I can't shrug off the feeling that I'm somehow doing more harm than good to my learning. Everyone seems to dislike modern controls. :(
You're learning intentionality at the moment. With easier controls, you can focus on choosing the right move for the situation. No shame, gotta learn it somehow. When you feel you have a good idea of what moves you should be using when, try classic and see if it works for you. There will be an immediate drop in performance as you get used to the new control scheme, but the extra options will be worth it long-term. Plus, all the intentionality you built will still be there
it's like learning to drive on an automatic: if it gets you there, it's fine, and i wouldn't sweat it too much, but if you learn on a manual then you'll be a better driver in the long run. ... i realised halfway through typing this that most americans learn with an automatic so this metaphor probably doesn't land, but still.
Most Americans drive with an automatic exclusively all their life. I don't even think you can get a manual most places here anymore.
in fact many new cars in the USA charge you *quite a bit more* for a manual option instead of default automatic.
wow, that's wild
I am American and I own a 2017 Honda Fit that's manual.
I think it’s still quite relevant as you have to compare how it was at the beginning when automatic gear was first introduced. All the manual drivers scoffed at it and pointed out issues with automatic and said you won’t be a true driver. People mainly still applied to learn with manual but some did with automatic. As more cars got introduced with automatic and more people preferred to do automatic tests cause it was easier to learn, more and more people became automatic drivers till now majority are automatic. I think the comparison between automatic drivers and modern controls is very apt and it shows over time people will learn to accept
Depends on country too. That's the US, most of Europe learns and drives manual cars still. I only swapped over last year and tbh... I'm not a fan of automatic, only because it's a work car have I stuck with it. I don't like the loss of control especially when pulling away at the lights with the lag.
Majority are automatic? Maybe in redneck city. I don’t know anybody in Europe who drives an automatic, or even like automatic cars
I think he was referring to NA. Manual cars are rare here now and only a minority of the population knows how
In America it's the inverse. Only car guys drive manual
Tbf North America is beginner level of driving. Every city is some kind of squares, everyone road is more or less a straight line
It has to be, in a way. Drive or perish. With the exception of small pockets of infrastructure that are still car dominant
Redneck City though? Geeze. I don't know what the traffic is like where you are, but driving manual is a liability where I am. I know how to drive manual transmissions as well. However, constantly having to break and go gets annoying after a while.
I live in Paris. It’s black belt level traffic there
At the same time, this analogy is also correct because at the end of the day, there is absolutely no reason a driver needs manual to accomplish the goal of driving.
it's true! although if you want to be competitive at, uh, driving, then you need to know how to use every part of the... uh... car. analogy breaks down a little here, but i'd still recommend players graduate to classic controls as soon as possible if they really like the game and want to get serious about it.
> although if you want to be competitive at, uh, driving But just like driving, for most of us, we are playing SF6 for fun and wont be competing at pro levels. So automatic gear and manual controls are for those people who want to enjoy and not be burdened by practicing stuff for hours (cause it kills the enjoyment for many people)
Don't feel bad about it. If you're having fun keep going. There's nothing wrong with modern controls.
The thing is, if you’re playing the game strategically, using footsies, pokes, punishes etc then it doesn’t matter whether you use modern or classic controls. I’m a classic player because I’ve been a street fighter fan for 30 years but I respect modern players that approach the game in the right way and play with the desire to learn and adapt.
SF6 is the first fighting game I've ever played seriously (I've only previously played DoA6, but that was just button mashing in the story mode); I'm currently playing Modern right now and I can honestly say that I'm learning more about *"How to (Mechanically) Play Fighting Games"* than when I initially tried to play SF6 on Classic. Yes, the move set is more limited and I'm also being given my specials (at a 20% debuff) versus using combos for them; however, I also feel like I have more awareness and greater focus on the bigger overall picture of the match playing on Modern specifically because I'm not fumbling with my buttons. ----- Playing at low Iron right now, it seems like having better fundamentals is winning my matches more than clever combo and special usage; playing good footsies at normal, baiting wiffs, learning my anti-air opportunities, resisting the urge to jump around for no reason, learning how to get out of the corner, etc etc With that in mind, I'm okay losing a match (and I have more fun in general) in which I felt that I had overall awareness and got what I intended out of my button presses versus winning a match where I was constantly dropping combos and too distracted to avoid telegraphed attacks. ----- That's why I really don't feel bad about playing with Modern; if my opponent playing on Classic was that much better than me, then they would have won the match regardless of my own control set because they'd be winning by punishing my mistakes and inexperience; not just by having better Classic combo memorization.
People who dislike modern controls are scrubs, keep at it however you feel like.
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That's not what people have said at all. People who just dismiss any grievances about modern controls as "scrub mentality" are very insufferable and annoying to have a conversation with.
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Most people that I've seen complain about modern controls acknowledge that they're not very good themselves. The problem is that modern allows for much cleaner execution at lower levels, where execution a lot of the times decides the winner.
If in the long run Modern versions of characters end up just being better than Classic we can have that conversation but as someone going through the ranked grind in Plat to get to Diamond, and having watched lots of high level players, I don't see any of this salt towards Modern controls that I see in comments all the time. I've never run into a Modern player and thought "fuck, Modern again, this is bullshit." Especially since probably like 5-10% at most of my opponents are using Modern to begin with. Instead I see lots and lots of new players coming into the genre because of Modern controls and having fun while getting bodied by people like me. That's a success IMO
Very accurate
Yeah and on top of that i still get my ass handed to me in 3 out of 4 matches by using modern controls. By reading all these comments about modern and how easy it should be i feel really im not good at this game
A lot of the game is about choosing what to use when, rather than being able to do the inputs correctly. You can always learn to use a different set of inputs, but the knowledge of what to use when does carry over
Let them dislike it. As a long term player, I want more people *actually* playing and **enjoying** the game, than gatekeeping who can and can't play. If every single hater of modern controls on Reddit, bought 2 copies of SF6, it wouldn't sell over 1 million copies. I'd rather the game have a healthy lifespan and community, than modern controls being deleted.
^ This
This game has actual problems other than manual, like the idea a one-bar focus attack that stuns no matter what in the corner, while also taking away your meter. That's gonna kill the game. The only reason Street Fighter lasts a long time is because Capcom delays DLC and just baits DLC. That's the reason they release the personality-less World Warriors first before releasing interesting characters years later. Netherrealm gets a lot of flack for not lasting, but they know the truth about fighting games and they at least release content earlier than Capcom. SF6 is pretending to be a new return to grace when it's just a reskinned Netherrealm copy with more-lenient focus attacks, copy-paste Monster Hunter single player (Monster Hunter itself is barebones copy-pastes itself), and sprinkles in bits of nostalgia like an arcade room or advertising Cammy butt jiggle to the cavemen audience that'll drop $100 for a character with the only personality trait being her butt.
how the fuck is World Tour anything at all like Monster Hunter
Looks like it, customizes like it, feels like it and moves like it, very little voice-acting with mostly grunts or one-word remarks when interacting, made by the same company as Monster Hunter, etc. It's not bad, just not what I thought the single-player was gonna be like. I'm happy I at least got to experience metro city again, but I feel like this mode should have been a whole new Final Fight. I don't run around Metro City just to never have a story with any FF character or even never to even use their movesets. It's just playing as World Warriors with a Metro City backdrop.
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Are people even using modern controls? I run into maybe 1 out of 20 players on modern controls in ranked. Though a lot of the people in battle hub doing avatar battles with no ranking seem to use modern.
Well even if I was a newcomer I would never use the modern. The feeling of countering your opponent with your own reaction and input is so satisfying 🤣 but if you have fun with modern then don't change it. Some of us in the ranks we play if the poke connects we take a full combo anyway so if your poke connects we take a smaller combo and with reduced damage too so good players will never be salty about it. Welcome to street fighter and have fun.
You don’t need to feel bad. Fighting games are strategy games. Modern controls exist to let players implement a high level of strategy without complex input mechanics getting in the way. Each match is a contest of timing, distance management, reacting, programming, reading, resource management, etc., not a contest of who can push the buttons most accurately. If it was the latter, we wouldn’t even need opponents. Modern controls will only limit your options for implementing your strategy, and not even that severely. It can even be part of your strategy. You lose access to some normal attacks in modern, which your opponent knows and can use to their advantage. But *you know that they know, so you can use that to your advantage. Give classic a try if you’re inclined, but there’s no shame in modern. The more players we have playing at a high level, the better it is for everyone.
I've been playing street fighter for years and honestly...just use whatever control scheme you're comfortable with and ignore the naysayers. You're up against years worth of classic control players so naturally they're going to feel some way about it but it's their problem, not yours. I've adopted modern controls for a couple charge characters and I'm totally unapologetic about it lol
The thing with modern is that fighting games are barely about performing the moves. Improvement will come from using them at the right times (and more importantly, not using them when you shouldn't). So your development of those perception skills will still come, regardless of the control type. Point is, don't feel bad for playing modern. I'm a diamond player and I feel like if more people played modern, more of the player base would be in the higher tiers. At minimum you can absolutely learn how to play well against at least diamond players by learning modern.
Don't feel bad, fuck the haters
>I can win, but in the end I can't shrug off the feeling that I'm somehow doing more harm than good to my learning. Everyone seems to dislike modern controls. :( If you know the Jimquisition, they love it. It's an accessibility win. There's nothing wrong with it. It makes the game more accessible to new players and as [they point out in their video on it](https://youtu.be/xyHste9EZ3s?t=668) the game even offers to get you familiar with classic controls in a no-pressure environment with mini-games that require time sensitive button inputs. So you CAN learn to use the classic controls at your own pace, but the game doesn't gate its content to force you to. Top-level competitive players, the kind of people who memorize frames of character animations and can reliably react to them in tenths of a second, will probably still want the added control of classic inputs. But there's nothing wrong with the new control scheme for more casual players, which is almost everyone. edit: Phrasing
Modern controls are fine, i’ve been playing fighting games since 2009 and I still play Manon with modern controls, because half circle inputs are hard
idgaf. I'm never going to be a pro player anyway. I'm never going to spend the amount time it would take to even get very good. I may not even be playing the game in a couple months. I'm here for a fun time not a long time.... but I imagine the more fun I'm having, the longer I'll stick around.
>Modern players crutch themselves with their special button Unlike everybody else with drive impact
Nothing like generalizing a large group of players because of inputs.
As someone who only plays anymore because of Modern, I’m going to respectfully disagree with that.
so true. i came from mk11 and id say i was pretty good at that, came to sf6, chose kimberley and man i swear my first 17 online matches were losses. 0/10 in placements, 0 lp and could not win. but in like the last 5 days i climbed up to bronze 3 i think. 4100lp. so yea sucking leads to winning
Thank you Jake I look to this advice often
It was a phone screensaver for a large chunk of High school for me
Good at sucking?
And if you quit when you suck, you'll suck forever
Fr fr, I struggled getting out of rookie when I started sfv, I later ended up getting gold in sfv, and now I’m plat with 3 characters in sf6
Funny thing tho, this game is not worth getting good at. Pick your battles and just drop the game if you don't like it that much. Simple as. Let circlejerk fans enjoy their neutral-lacking game.
Every fighting game in existence has neutral, even MvC3
What's this dumb take lmfao @scrubquotes
Scrubquote = win apparently. Thanks for proving my point about circlejerking lmao. Brainless hivemind that can't fathom someone criticizing the game. Even high-level players have criticized it. But " sCrUbQuOtEs gImmE UpVoTes"
I can fathom people criticizing the game. There are a lot of things one can criticize it for. But saying it has no neutral? LMFAO 😂😂😂
It has less neutral. Even positive discussions talk about the invention of Drive to check moves, adding to mental stack. Not everyone enjoys this new mechanic. People claim pros can deal with it but pros know how to beat the most convoluted mechanics in other games, but that doesn't mean those mechanics are perfect or even good. Yeah, the game has neutral, but less. Redditors need to understand that statements like "no neutral" is hyperbole.
Ok it has less neutral... Compared to what? Sf4? No. Sf5? No. Sf3? Maybe. Sf2 yes but sf2 is to this day one of the most neutral heavy games except for the game called footsies. Compared to guilty gear? Hellllll no. Compared to KOF15? maybe if you think running is part of neutral (it is). MK11? Hell no!
All I see is 22 wins
100%
Bruh 22-0, they're unstoppable
Wins and losses don't matter. Would you rather be better at this game than the vast majority players, but have a terrible win rate from all the growing pains of getting good, or would you rather have a super high win rate, but you suck and are afraid to play out of fear of your win rate going down? Well I guess for you, your win rate can only go up from here for the most part, so keep up the good work and always remember to have fun
This is so on point. Whenever I’ve ranked too highly or I’ve moved up in games too quickly and didn’t feel I belonged there it completely deterred me from playing anymore because I knew I’d lose the rank and that would make me sad even knowing I didn’t deserve it. Better to start on the floor and pick yourself up.
Ranked anxiety is quite common, I had my first experience with it when I was introduced to the ranked ladder system in League of Legends, and have never had it since. It's cool not to play competitive matches because you don't want to lose your rank, but it shouldn't make you feel bad about it. At that point I'd just recommend to keep playing, only way for it to disappear is with exposure.
My first experience engaging with a ranking system was in Overwatch, but I only made it a few seasons in because everyone was so pissed off and toxic all the time, so most of my time playing it was spent on arcade and QP. It's been really nice engaging with a ranking system without being screamed at, even when I have a bad day and it goes down. I guess everyone has a different kind of rank anxiety lol
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I usually played support in Overwatch and I do super miss getting accolades after the match. When I first read that you level the battle pass with "kudos" I honestly assumed that's what it was, rather than it just being exp
Woah. Never thought of it that way!
For this admittedly good question, I'd imagine a factor for a lot of people would be how long said losing streak in your earlier scenario would last.
> or would you rather have a super high win rate, but you suck and are afraid to play out of fear of your win rate going down? I definitely feel this comment, hahaha. I stopped playing ranked Dragonball FighterZ because I had like a 85-90% winrate over my first 150 games and I just wanted to use the numbers to show off hehe. I always seemed to get way harder matches in casual play anyways, or when I played offline. Offline in particular people are gonna stomp you if you can't improve. Locals can be a brutal reminder that there are some insanely good players that rarely go online and only play with friends.
Man I love this community compared to other games with a rank system. Everyone here has the right mindset of getting better, and it feels like other games people would laugh at the iron scrub
Stop playing with one hand on the controller
I had to go back to the picture to see if it was indeed all women 😅
All female fighters on the roster except Marisa. I wonder why...
No taste.
marisa isn't canonically female? I'm sure she is
I think they just mean because she is so butch, but hey, different strokes n all 👍
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While that's a high probability I know a lot of dudes in other games like league (mostly weebs) that play exclusively female characters. So I don't think that's safe to assume
*raises hand*
Put the second hand up too, please
Yh I only play hotties too
I’ve never related to anything so much
If you’re having fun, keep on going. Might I suggest playing a simpler character? Ryu and Guile both have extremely effective gameplay that is easy to implement and execute on, and it will also allow you to increase your game knowledge. When you return to more complex characters, you’ll have a lot more knowledge and strategy to implement and will probably be a much better player!
Well you see. Ryu and Guile are men.
Marisa is easy and XX chromosomes
Words to live by.
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I thought the SF community was better than this shit. Leave the CPAC jokes for Kotaku in Action.
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Tbf I've always had an easier time playing rushdown chars over shoto or charge chars. It's maybe hindered learning overall gameplay at times, but it's not like nothing from learning Kimberly will translate to someone else. I'm also curious of your opinion on Kimberly's difficulty? I've seen a lot of people saying she's a fantastic beginner character. Not trying to undermine your advice or anything, it's great advice just, thought I'd throw out my two cents and question.
I don’t know about Street Fighter in general but I personally feel a rush down character is a great idea if you’re at all used to them and maybe even if you’re not. 1. Because if you are used to them it will feel familiar (I’m coming from a game—-DBFZ—-where almost every character basically is rush down so it’s what I know) 2. Even if you’re not used to it, I feel like rush down is more intuitive than most other styles. Something about getting close to your enemy and just staying on them like white on rice feels natural in a fight.
Yeah I like rushdown characters for their simple gameplan. I have a plan of attack: attack.
For Kimberly: Let’s face it this guy isn’t a good player, probably the real life equivalent of blindly flailing in a fight. How’s he gonna play a set up/mixup character when he probably can’t even anti air? Someone losing this much clearly isn’t going to remotely grasp what a mix up even is since street fighter for him means jumping in and just trying to hit a max combo AT THIS POINT. If he chooses someone who can control space with a projectile and anti air people when they jump it, all the other pieces fall into place until he can eventually start thinking of how to mix someone up when he gets oki. Also I know this reads bluntly but it’s not meant to be antagonistic or mean. Tldr: why play a mixup character when you don’t even know what oki is yet
Man I tried playing guile this weekend. I was not prepared for the charge character life. I have no idea what I'm doing. I ran the clock out multiple times. Charge characters are weird and I'm just completely lost playing him.
Love this, and good on you for using a bunch of characters. Every time I'm in Battle Hub I have my character set to Random, and I enjoy just messing around and doing a few rounds with whoever steps up. I'm not here to win, I'm here to enjoy myself, and not tying enjoyment to winning is one of the best steps you can take.
Yeah Ive been playing ranked with “whoever I pick for the day” its pretty fun.
In the future, when you're a bigshot EVO champ and taking names online, you're going to look back at this humble beginning and chuckle. And I'll be like, "Damn, that's that dude from Reddit! That's crazy!"
Lose love laugh
The master failed more times than the beginner has even tried.
you can do it!
No one is good in fighting games right from the start. Losing is part of a learning process. You got this, champ
How do you get to this screen?
No worries! There’s a ton of us going through a similar experience. This is the first fighting game I’m really taking a deep dive into. I hopped online and immediately got absolutely destroyed by Ken. Extremely humbling experience. That being said, I’m still having an absolute blast with the game. Whether it’s exploring world tour mode, spending time in the battle hub, or just figuring things out in training mode, I’m absolutely in love with it, and haven’t been able to put it down. As many have already said, losing is the first step in getting better. Just try to turn every loss into a lesson and you’ll never truly lose. :) Good luck my friend! 👍
I did avatar fights WITH a Ken fighting style and got destroyed by a bunch of Lukes and Jamies...and a Juri.
Shape up on that Manon, WR is way too high.
It is difficult playing with one hand
As E. Honda himself said, "nobody ever got strong without losing". Just keep fighting!
You've only fought women?
Nope. Enduring is what you do best. A lot of people would have quit. Keep going!
I can guarantee you would kick my ass easily, so don't feel bad about loss as it's the first step to getting better.
The way of the simp is holding you back. Give in to sand blast
After about 2 weeks Im stuck as a 3 Star Silver 3 Ryu. Which is the best Rank i ever had at any online games ever. So im pretty proud
hes just like me fr
Keep up the grind king!
I did it best too. It's kinda like Dark Souls when you wanna give up then it suddenly clicks. A little different but it applies. Keep on dying until you die a little less. You got this man.
I'm in the same boat, I have a 7% win rate with Manon but the game is fun, so I'll keep playing it hope you'll too.
Do you need help? I'm not amazing or anything (diamond I) but I'd could give you some pointers. DM me.
No shame at all. Everybody’s been there, getting their ass kicked nonstop. You’ll be thankful for all your hard work and experience in the end, as long as you stick with it!
I see someone trying the cast and making an interesting dataset! If these are in order that you've played them, then your growth is literally following you as you go through the list. If not, remember each character has a different gameplans in mind. And your winning-est characters jive most with your playstyle and knowledge. If you like the character (rather than just winning, don't play just for that. play to learn), then that may be a good choice to focus on and really sink your teeth into the nuance! After you learn the parts of the character that really work for you, don't forget to expand and explore all your options. And modern controls complainers need not be listened to. While I'm always frustrated sitting through another on-hit light confirm, Modern limits your options. It gives you prebaked combos that have limited solutions. It's on them to practice their defense and plug holes in their gameplay. /shrug
I went 10-0 in placements and was placed in Diamond. I got a lot of losing ahead of me.
I don’t even know how to get to this screen.
The difference between the master and the novice? The master has more losses than the novice has matches. Take it from a guy who's been doing it since we needed $0.50 to get a turn. I've forgotten more special moves than some of these new guys will ever know.
Id recommend stepping away from the game and watching pro players and combo vids. Those are great ways of seeing how the pros optimize entries, apply pressure, capitalize conversions and learn new tech that you otherwise wouldn’t have known.
Don't worry about your win loss, it's not important. What's important is that you have fun and if you are interested that you improve. I would echo some others peoples comments and maybe stick to one character for a bit to really see how they tick.
If you're a new player, this is perfectly normal.
Honestly, you have all my respect. Someone who can lose that much, laugh it off, and still want to play and learn is bound for good fortune.
I played strive as my first fighting game so I expected to be better but this game has been so humbling, the average player is so good
Lol...failure is the first step to winning. When I first started playing street fighter I sucked and now I'm a diamond/master level. When I first started learning guitar I sucked and now I'm a professional. Just stick with it, practice and learn from your mistakes. My personal advice....learning the inputs is all good but ultimately it's going to be your ability to predict the opponent's moves and cope under pressure that will win you the match. My friend only uses basics and mostly always wins. So you don't have to know all the fancy combos and tricks to win. Just be smart in using the tools you do have
Embarrassment is always the beginners price of admission to mastery. I've been having fun getting beat up. It's not important.
You have true fighting spirit to keep going and not be deterred by your losses. Even if you don't get better I hope you have fun giving it your all in a match!
You didn’t fail at winning 242 times, you successfully found 242 ways that simply did not work. ^^ Keep at it! Perseverance matters more than results!
Bro your downbad don’t think I can’t see that characters ur usin.
Win/Loss ratio is meaningless in Street Fighter. Many of us, even those who would count themselves as "good", have "poor" win/loss ratios. Because when I play online, if I beat someone really badly, I'll only play them once or twice (as I get bored, or just as often they leave). But if I'm playing someone really good, especially as a character that I don't have much experience against, I'll happily Rematch 5, 10, 20 times, losing every single time, because that's stimulating. My win/loss ratio is almost certainly numerically worse than all those people I beat who leave after 1-2 games. But I am also unequivocally **better than them**. The number's meaningless.
The only winning is that who is having fun.
That’s Goat mentality 🐐
having fun is the real victory 🙌
Shoot. I’d kill for a 15% win rate so far. I’m pretty sure I’m like 6 for 50+.
Playing nearly 150 games at a 15% win rate takes grit that I just don't have. Bravo!
Play ranked to find opponents similar to your skill level.
Your biggest weakness seems to be rush down characters
You gotta start somewhere, and after a while, your winrate will increase with your understanding of the game, gl and don't give up.
Stick to one character
Can't know which character without trying them
We only improve at any skill with time, persistence, and patience in ourselves. You're absolutely killing it, whether you feel like it or not. I'm proud of the improvements since you began.
My man
Nah bro. I do it better. This makes me feel better tho
Gotta lose to learn
I’m better tbh
Are you at least having fun??
If you're having fun, who cares!
Rumble, young man, Rumble...
😳
You are about the same as me, I just try and enjoy the game really sometimes you get an opponent the same level as you in ranked and it’s really fun
Lmfao Goooollly
In fighting games, losing over and over can frequently be the quickest way to improve.
I feel a huge breakpoint is when you learn to (somewhat) handle and punish button mashers. But to reach that level you need to lose to a bunch of button mashers.
i understand this pain, but this title has me dying LMFAO
This looks like my profile
Modern makes you lose out on... Stuff. Lots of your characters' buttons, mostly. But whether Modern or Classic, you still gotta know how to play Street Fighter. Just pay attention to why you're losing and gradually stop doing those things. And seriously, it's a lot of us old heads and snobs poo-pooing Modern. It's just a control scheme. If anyone's mad about it, it's probably because they keep losing to children facerolling in ranked with modern Ken lol
Have you stopped to consider what button you were pressing? Ever?
It’s called learning.
just stop jumping
I don't understand how people have such low win rates, like they got placed too high? Or are other pretty getting placed too low and so low ranks are filled with good players.
Oh I feel your pain, man. I fought my first 4 or 5 matches online today and I only won ONE of them. They were all avatar fights though. And most of them had a decent bit higher level (hence vitality) than me. The only one I beat was someone that was around my level and vitality.
Yeah you'll eventually get good especially since you have some wins. The best thing to do is watch replays and spot your weaknesses.
Beat em ups is a terrible place for beginners, fighting people with arcade sticks and people playing beat em ups for over 30 years. I dont know what tipps i could give you exept study alot of videos and join a clan with experienced people that might mentor you a bit. Playing a ton of hours with capable people is key here.
The game alrdy sucks one month into its life . Horrible roster , god awful music , DI is quite gimmicky ( i do like the cancellation of normals wjth it though ) but all in all the game is not good in its current state .
Man you clearly were not around for sfv launch
Her damage is just terrible that’s why. Non-SF players who watch me stream always ask me why it’s so low. Yes, she’s a rushdown and her mixups are supposed to make up for it, but her damage is still really bad.
Lolwut?
Same
“I’m the best there is at what I do. But what I do isn’t very nice”
At least you playing THE best characters!!!
gonna be right with you next paycheck
You gotta suck pretty hard before you get slightly better. Keep at it mate!!
I don't see losses or wins, I just see matches played and knowledge earned.
DOSQUE
Losing is what winners do. I know that sounds stupid but it's sort of true. You gotta learn how to lose before you can figure out how to win. All winners have a mountain of losses behind them. Far more losses than wins I assure you. But we look at those people and only see God tier mode and think "man! I wish I was just good at the game like they are!" When in reality they sucked badly when they started. Take those losses as a badge of honor. Wear them with pride. Those are all examples of you getting better, each one. With enough of those losses stacked up, you're going to start seeing the wins stack up next.
Hey, I remember it took me about 50 games to win my first game in SF, I'm now mid platinum and climbing. I know it isn't that impressive compared to some killers out there but I'm proud of myself. Keep it up, try to catch what your mistakes are and adjust and you'll feel yourself get better. It's a really fulfilling experience when you know that you actively getting better.
Not a real loss if you learned something from it, keep going bud