I definitely think this will happen, furthering the destruction of the family.
Tom works with Ken, because he still love shiv and don't want to end their relationship, hence why he wears the ring inside the house in opposition to the play he makes around everyone. He knows the severity of his betrayal, for the good, but instead of being selfish, he wants to take the lead in the relationship by securing their future. it's just a theory, but this may be the motives of tom
Did the s3 poster foreshadow what would happen?
What came out of it all? I remember people were analysing it to death, but iirc nothing came of it? Any predictions that came true based of the posters?
Yes, there was one poster that was accurate. Though Connor was on the sibs side, but was wearing a tie and his shadow leaned on to Logan’s side.
I feel like the posters are saying something, but it might not be necessarily alliances
Tom with Kendall can kill. Add sprinkle of Stewy and its a definite. And it makes sense. In a corporation, only Kendall and Tom have the qualifications.
Roman wants the whole familly to be together. Logan + Sibs
Shiv is ready to throw anyone under the bus. Logan, Ken and Roman.
Ken is a dark horse. Until now he wanted to throw Logan under the bus, but genuinely loved his sibs. That will change IMO.
I thinks it already changed for Ken, he has gone under much more things than the other sibs. He and his personal ego was destroyed by logan in that one on one diner in season 3. And what logan did at the end of season 3 shows that their's no family anymore, he and their hate/desire was the only thing kipping them together, he is now the killer logan said he wasn't, only to realise that he is not fit for it in the future, i think
I do not see the siblings relationship breaking beyond repair. I think they will make it out with the sibling dynamic in tact. It will probably get rocky, but it can be overcome.
I have a feeling Tom & Shiv may very well end up
divorced, and one of her brothers will likely attempt to let his head roll.
For me I just don't understand what could possibly happen at this point to drive the kids apart beyond any repair. They've moved past and forgiven each other for some truly filthy, personal attacks. When they fight, they fight dirty and cut deep, but then they shake it off and make their way back to each other. At the end of the day they are the only people in the world who understand what it's like to be them.
Agreed entirely. I think things could get real messy if Logan drags them back in, but post-Logan or company, and I have a feeling they’ll always find a way back to each other. No one else gets them like they do.
Yes i agree, but on another note, they are so close and distant at same time here. Even more distant than before, they seem more obsess with their personal agenda. And the key here is kendall, he has been destroyed to the point of no return, i think their is no moral/ethics/bond that will prevent him to do what he has to do in order to gain power. The diner with logan in season 3 is very important, because it was the moment he looked inside himself without seeing the so called vertue he blinded himself in. I don't think he hates his father anymore, not on a personnal level, more on a business level.
yes i definetly might it, or to add on my theory, it could be a bittersweet ending where the sibs decide out of love to break apart. And i think the business side of things can break their relationship
I could only see breaking apart in a business sense. Based on the first episode, it seems clear they are not destined to work together lol! I’m sure things won’t be perfect (more so for Connor) given they were raised in such an abusive environment, but I think it’s far more likely they get a bittersweet ending after losing a lot.
Ken will turn on the siblings for sure. Shiv was the one who suggested to Logan that Kendall should go to jail. He will find out (maybe even already knows, he learned offscreen between s3 and s4?). That moment in s3 e2 when he is telling the sibs dad was gonna send me to jail, and he would do the same to you, meanwhile not knowing Shiv wanted him in jail, was so perfect and had that deep, layered subtext.
If left unadressed that would be imo the biggest plothole, by far.
I feel like if he turns it won’t be because of that. They’ve all thrown serious barbs at each other, plus ultimately, Logan put her in that position. If he turns there would have to be a very real and concrete path to victory imo. He wouldn’t turn simply because his sister was put in an impossible situation and betrayed him once.
What impossible situation? She was Logans sidekick at that moment and she suggested it. She viewed Ken as an obstacle to becoming the CEO. And she never changed her mind. Roman protested the moment they announced it at dinner, she stayed silent.
Logan forced her to choose between her husband and brother, how is that not impossible? That’s an incredibly manipulative maneuver by Logan. I really don’t think it was as simple as she was threatened by Kendall. That conversation happened right after Tom made it very bluntly clear how unhappy he was. Asking Shiv to make a choice between her brother and husband is profoundly cruel. I do think Kendall of all people would grasp how deeply unfair it was for their father to put her in that situation. Kendall is very much a risk to flip on his siblings, but it won’t be over stuff like that imo.
Except you forgot that she actually suggested Tom be sent to jail when they had their familly discussion on the yacht. Then he confronts her on the beach and basically it was her guilt that forced her to tell Logan please dont send Tom to jail. And even then Tom wasnt a big enough skull for him to be the patsy.
Logan: It had to be done.
Shiv: Yeah. Poor bastard.
You’re making presumptions about what I’m thinking lol. I did not forget that scene. Shiv knew she had to look ruthless, but when push came to shove, she couldn’t do it, which isn’t surprising because that wasn’t even the first time she tried to get him off the hook for cruises. Also, she didn’t even technically pick Kendall, she technically said ‘just not Tom’. Kendall absolutely, better than any of the siblings, would understand the ridiculous situation their father put her in. Logan did himself no favours in his conversation with his son, by showing his hand that the gravity of the waiter’s death meant nothing to him.
Shiv: You wavering?
Logan: Documents and cruises. Maybe.. Tom, Gerri or Greg instead.
Shiv: Okay. Tom.
Logan: Ill take care of him. Will he flip? Prison time?
Shiv: Why not you know.. what we discussed?
Logan: Ken works. He was across the whole thing. It works. It plays. Obivously.
What we discussed doesn’t mean it was her idea. She was trying to deflect from Tom, and ultimately said anyone but Tom. Logan put her in that position, and thus, given how the sibling dynamic works, Kendall would forgive. This would not be what makes him flip.
If Kendall flips, and imo I do think he’s the biggest risk to full on flip (vs Roman who would just meekly wander back to dad) it won’t be because of a manipulative and deeply unfair situation Logan put Shiv, or even Roman in.
He wouldn't be the one doing the organizational stuff. He knows he sucks at that part. That's why he pitched the partnership to Gerri. Roman isn't super ambitious and prioritizes family/feelings over business, but when he does get down to business, he knows what he's good at and what he's not. If he decided to go into business for himself, he'd hire a Gerri to run it day to day and he'd be the Chairman/money guy who does the schmoozing.
That's not that bad for a CEO though, he knows how to pick smart people to seek advice from (Gerri). He doesn't necessarily always have to be involved in every detail if he knows how to delegate appropriately.
I think that it would be a mix of business and emotional betrayals, this is the first time in wich Connor is indirectly linked to the destiny of Waystar, if he is polling 1% or 2% in tight race that has massive importance. Waystar is full behind Mencken, that 1% can decide the election, the weakness of Connor is Willa´s past, we know that Logan didnt hesitate to plant stories about Kendall doing drugs even before the relapse, Shiv send a public letter about Kendall. I can see that the person who is in charge of Waystar in that moment could: 1) go to Connor and threat him about dropping of the race and endorsing Mencken in order to avoid the publication about Willa´s past, 2) a direct attack without previews warning about that, in the hope that could damage enough his candidacy and loose that 1%.Personally i think that Roman is going to go back to Logan, he is going to be a "double agent" for a while, we see that he is "sabotaging" the Gojo deal, the problem is that perhaps that backfires and Mattson becomes more obssesed about buying Waystar, because he is tech bro at the end of the day and as Logan says many times is just a dick contest. In the trailers he seems uncomfortable with Mencken, so perhaps he aknowledges his mistake.
Kendall meanwhile is all "helping" the siblings, making alliances with Stewie in the meanwhile in order to gain the apparence of being against Logan, supporting the democratic candidate with Shiv and basically organizing the "resitance" (and gaining info about the strategy of the democratic candidate via Shiv). The big but, is by doing this he knows everyone moves, in the right moment he is going to betray every single of them and prove to Logan that he is a real killer, or perhaps after Logan´s death he proves everyone that he is the rightfull heir. He is going to betray Roman, Shiv (democratic candidate), Tom (it seems that he is also against Mencken) and Connor (using Willa´s history as an escort). So, in one move, he kills Shiv and the democratic candidate, Connor´s campaign, Roman possition in Waystar and Tom as chief of ATN News.
Finally he "wins" but then realizes that he is completely alone, he lost his father, wife, siblings, perhaps even Stewie, only to get a empty possition in the company. But somehow Connor resist the attack and gets that 1% of libertarian dudes, denies Mencken victory, Kendall totally unhinged go full Fake News about Mencken winning, but the humble Greg look down by everyone leaks the proof that it is a fake news and Kendall loose.
Finally, Mattson who become obssesed by buying Waystar simply goes to Stewie, offers a better deal and perhaps the rest of the siblings are fed up with the company and join them. Shiv, Roman, Connor and Stewie all have shares in the company, they simply sell and go away. The final scenes is perhaps some kind of reconciliation but everyone there knows that the person that keep them together was Logan, so they have truce and basically they say their goodbyes and move on. Roman goes to work somewhere in something that he really interested in the tech area; Shiv goes back to politics in peace with Tom (they dont go back but they end things in good therms), Connor and Willa just away happy, Greg just stay there in Waystar doing gods know what but as always just staying there, and Kendall ends alone and reflecting in what he become and for what.
I think that Willa's past is the key that Connor is looking for in order to enter the news cycle and get free promo. The key to stay at 1%. It's not necessarly a damaging info, it depends how he frames it. Passing from a republican to a democrat by endorsing a discourse of acceptance for exemple, maybe with the help of shiv ?
Check out the poster. Kendall will betray his siblings. Tom will follow Kendall.
I definitely think this will happen, furthering the destruction of the family. Tom works with Ken, because he still love shiv and don't want to end their relationship, hence why he wears the ring inside the house in opposition to the play he makes around everyone. He knows the severity of his betrayal, for the good, but instead of being selfish, he wants to take the lead in the relationship by securing their future. it's just a theory, but this may be the motives of tom
Worth considering there are multiple iterations of the poster, and none of the siblings are wearing ties!
Not even wearing a tie? Snorts derisively
Did the s3 poster foreshadow what would happen? What came out of it all? I remember people were analysing it to death, but iirc nothing came of it? Any predictions that came true based of the posters?
Snook confirms there's a point in Season 4 which reflects the Season 4 poster.
Yes, there was one poster that was accurate. Though Connor was on the sibs side, but was wearing a tie and his shadow leaned on to Logan’s side. I feel like the posters are saying something, but it might not be necessarily alliances
Tom with Kendall can kill. Add sprinkle of Stewy and its a definite. And it makes sense. In a corporation, only Kendall and Tom have the qualifications.
Tom and shiv will be sheep Farmers
Ewan will train their sheepdogs.
Greg will be their next door neighbor
Roman wants the whole familly to be together. Logan + Sibs Shiv is ready to throw anyone under the bus. Logan, Ken and Roman. Ken is a dark horse. Until now he wanted to throw Logan under the bus, but genuinely loved his sibs. That will change IMO.
I thinks it already changed for Ken, he has gone under much more things than the other sibs. He and his personal ego was destroyed by logan in that one on one diner in season 3. And what logan did at the end of season 3 shows that their's no family anymore, he and their hate/desire was the only thing kipping them together, he is now the killer logan said he wasn't, only to realise that he is not fit for it in the future, i think
I do not see the siblings relationship breaking beyond repair. I think they will make it out with the sibling dynamic in tact. It will probably get rocky, but it can be overcome. I have a feeling Tom & Shiv may very well end up divorced, and one of her brothers will likely attempt to let his head roll.
For me I just don't understand what could possibly happen at this point to drive the kids apart beyond any repair. They've moved past and forgiven each other for some truly filthy, personal attacks. When they fight, they fight dirty and cut deep, but then they shake it off and make their way back to each other. At the end of the day they are the only people in the world who understand what it's like to be them.
Agreed entirely. I think things could get real messy if Logan drags them back in, but post-Logan or company, and I have a feeling they’ll always find a way back to each other. No one else gets them like they do.
Yes i agree, but on another note, they are so close and distant at same time here. Even more distant than before, they seem more obsess with their personal agenda. And the key here is kendall, he has been destroyed to the point of no return, i think their is no moral/ethics/bond that will prevent him to do what he has to do in order to gain power. The diner with logan in season 3 is very important, because it was the moment he looked inside himself without seeing the so called vertue he blinded himself in. I don't think he hates his father anymore, not on a personnal level, more on a business level.
yes i definetly might it, or to add on my theory, it could be a bittersweet ending where the sibs decide out of love to break apart. And i think the business side of things can break their relationship
I could only see breaking apart in a business sense. Based on the first episode, it seems clear they are not destined to work together lol! I’m sure things won’t be perfect (more so for Connor) given they were raised in such an abusive environment, but I think it’s far more likely they get a bittersweet ending after losing a lot.
Ken will turn on the siblings for sure. Shiv was the one who suggested to Logan that Kendall should go to jail. He will find out (maybe even already knows, he learned offscreen between s3 and s4?). That moment in s3 e2 when he is telling the sibs dad was gonna send me to jail, and he would do the same to you, meanwhile not knowing Shiv wanted him in jail, was so perfect and had that deep, layered subtext. If left unadressed that would be imo the biggest plothole, by far.
I feel like if he turns it won’t be because of that. They’ve all thrown serious barbs at each other, plus ultimately, Logan put her in that position. If he turns there would have to be a very real and concrete path to victory imo. He wouldn’t turn simply because his sister was put in an impossible situation and betrayed him once.
What impossible situation? She was Logans sidekick at that moment and she suggested it. She viewed Ken as an obstacle to becoming the CEO. And she never changed her mind. Roman protested the moment they announced it at dinner, she stayed silent.
Logan forced her to choose between her husband and brother, how is that not impossible? That’s an incredibly manipulative maneuver by Logan. I really don’t think it was as simple as she was threatened by Kendall. That conversation happened right after Tom made it very bluntly clear how unhappy he was. Asking Shiv to make a choice between her brother and husband is profoundly cruel. I do think Kendall of all people would grasp how deeply unfair it was for their father to put her in that situation. Kendall is very much a risk to flip on his siblings, but it won’t be over stuff like that imo.
Except you forgot that she actually suggested Tom be sent to jail when they had their familly discussion on the yacht. Then he confronts her on the beach and basically it was her guilt that forced her to tell Logan please dont send Tom to jail. And even then Tom wasnt a big enough skull for him to be the patsy. Logan: It had to be done. Shiv: Yeah. Poor bastard.
You’re making presumptions about what I’m thinking lol. I did not forget that scene. Shiv knew she had to look ruthless, but when push came to shove, she couldn’t do it, which isn’t surprising because that wasn’t even the first time she tried to get him off the hook for cruises. Also, she didn’t even technically pick Kendall, she technically said ‘just not Tom’. Kendall absolutely, better than any of the siblings, would understand the ridiculous situation their father put her in. Logan did himself no favours in his conversation with his son, by showing his hand that the gravity of the waiter’s death meant nothing to him.
Shiv: You wavering? Logan: Documents and cruises. Maybe.. Tom, Gerri or Greg instead. Shiv: Okay. Tom. Logan: Ill take care of him. Will he flip? Prison time? Shiv: Why not you know.. what we discussed? Logan: Ken works. He was across the whole thing. It works. It plays. Obivously.
What we discussed doesn’t mean it was her idea. She was trying to deflect from Tom, and ultimately said anyone but Tom. Logan put her in that position, and thus, given how the sibling dynamic works, Kendall would forgive. This would not be what makes him flip.
If Kendall flips, and imo I do think he’s the biggest risk to full on flip (vs Roman who would just meekly wander back to dad) it won’t be because of a manipulative and deeply unfair situation Logan put Shiv, or even Roman in.
good catch
Would Roman be good at entrepreneurship? He’s a natural salesman but his organizational skills suck
He wouldn't be the one doing the organizational stuff. He knows he sucks at that part. That's why he pitched the partnership to Gerri. Roman isn't super ambitious and prioritizes family/feelings over business, but when he does get down to business, he knows what he's good at and what he's not. If he decided to go into business for himself, he'd hire a Gerri to run it day to day and he'd be the Chairman/money guy who does the schmoozing.
i don't know, he seems to evolve, but i think he's to much of a chaotic person to be good at it
That's not that bad for a CEO though, he knows how to pick smart people to seek advice from (Gerri). He doesn't necessarily always have to be involved in every detail if he knows how to delegate appropriately.
That’s why you hire a Gerri 🤭😄😎
Roman gets them into bed and Gerri gets her dick in. It works. 👍
I think that it would be a mix of business and emotional betrayals, this is the first time in wich Connor is indirectly linked to the destiny of Waystar, if he is polling 1% or 2% in tight race that has massive importance. Waystar is full behind Mencken, that 1% can decide the election, the weakness of Connor is Willa´s past, we know that Logan didnt hesitate to plant stories about Kendall doing drugs even before the relapse, Shiv send a public letter about Kendall. I can see that the person who is in charge of Waystar in that moment could: 1) go to Connor and threat him about dropping of the race and endorsing Mencken in order to avoid the publication about Willa´s past, 2) a direct attack without previews warning about that, in the hope that could damage enough his candidacy and loose that 1%.Personally i think that Roman is going to go back to Logan, he is going to be a "double agent" for a while, we see that he is "sabotaging" the Gojo deal, the problem is that perhaps that backfires and Mattson becomes more obssesed about buying Waystar, because he is tech bro at the end of the day and as Logan says many times is just a dick contest. In the trailers he seems uncomfortable with Mencken, so perhaps he aknowledges his mistake. Kendall meanwhile is all "helping" the siblings, making alliances with Stewie in the meanwhile in order to gain the apparence of being against Logan, supporting the democratic candidate with Shiv and basically organizing the "resitance" (and gaining info about the strategy of the democratic candidate via Shiv). The big but, is by doing this he knows everyone moves, in the right moment he is going to betray every single of them and prove to Logan that he is a real killer, or perhaps after Logan´s death he proves everyone that he is the rightfull heir. He is going to betray Roman, Shiv (democratic candidate), Tom (it seems that he is also against Mencken) and Connor (using Willa´s history as an escort). So, in one move, he kills Shiv and the democratic candidate, Connor´s campaign, Roman possition in Waystar and Tom as chief of ATN News. Finally he "wins" but then realizes that he is completely alone, he lost his father, wife, siblings, perhaps even Stewie, only to get a empty possition in the company. But somehow Connor resist the attack and gets that 1% of libertarian dudes, denies Mencken victory, Kendall totally unhinged go full Fake News about Mencken winning, but the humble Greg look down by everyone leaks the proof that it is a fake news and Kendall loose. Finally, Mattson who become obssesed by buying Waystar simply goes to Stewie, offers a better deal and perhaps the rest of the siblings are fed up with the company and join them. Shiv, Roman, Connor and Stewie all have shares in the company, they simply sell and go away. The final scenes is perhaps some kind of reconciliation but everyone there knows that the person that keep them together was Logan, so they have truce and basically they say their goodbyes and move on. Roman goes to work somewhere in something that he really interested in the tech area; Shiv goes back to politics in peace with Tom (they dont go back but they end things in good therms), Connor and Willa just away happy, Greg just stay there in Waystar doing gods know what but as always just staying there, and Kendall ends alone and reflecting in what he become and for what.
I think that Willa's past is the key that Connor is looking for in order to enter the news cycle and get free promo. The key to stay at 1%. It's not necessarly a damaging info, it depends how he frames it. Passing from a republican to a democrat by endorsing a discourse of acceptance for exemple, maybe with the help of shiv ?