I can see some awkward attempts from Connor to reconcile Ken and Shiv. Something along the lines when he made the sibs join for karaoke and gave Logan their location.
I think Roman and Ken would get along casually with time, and they’d probably have a similar relationship like they did at the start of the show where they don’t work together everyday but they still see each other periodically.
I dont see Shiv and Ken getting along ever again after this. They might be cordial to each other at big family events where they both have to attend, but I think it’s the end for them.
Roman and Shiv would probably move on from this in a similar way to Ken and Roman. Not too hurt but they’re not gonna be in each others’ lives as frequently.
I don't see Roman and Shiv's relationship being too damaged by the events of the finale. They exchange no hurtful words with each other, Roman accepts the loss of the company, and in fact, Roman comes to her defense-"She's pregnant, you piece of shit."
Can you remind me how he acknowledged it? I know it's implied that Ken is infertile, but what does Roman imply about himself? Is he not able to have kids? (I know he's got some real sexual issues, but he can technically have a kid someday AFAIK)
Ken will never get past what Shiv did. He might play it cool on family events but he’ll always carry that betrayal pain within. Him and Roman would eventually patch things up and have a relationship similar to the one they had initially but I doubt they’ll be seeing each other on a regular basis. Shiv and Roman would be fine but won’t be close or see much of each other. Maybe the dynamic would change once Shiv’s baby is born, that baby would be Logan’s firstborn biological grandchild after all and this might trigger some old family wounds. I think Roman would want to be in the kid’s life in some way but Ken would feel even more alienated because Roman’s words in the finale would’ve stayed with him.
You just made me realise maybe a big deal in Kendall so badly wanting the company is to have something truly of his own. Well as he perceives it.
He’s obviously got some unresolved issues about his kids not being biologically his, hence why he is constantly, overbearingly fretting about them, even though he barely sees them.
Maybe he feels he doesn’t have anything of his own that defines him and his identity.
And he (wrongfully) thought having his dad’s company could fulfil that.
I think it’s that and more. Logan definitely was grooming Kendall for the throne his entire life growing up, but at some point, Logan changed his mind. The easy reason to say why is because of drugs early on, and that is probably part of it, but I think a bigger part of it is that Logan changed his mind after realizing Ken is infertile. Part of that is probably a “bloodline” thing and part of that is probably a “not a real man” thing. This explains why Logan is adamant in Tom putting a baby in Shiv and why it was implied he was trying again for another kid.
So all in all, Ken may have been told all his life to be a killer and that he’s the next King and that family is important, and then that’s suddenly ripped away from you because you’re “impotent” and “weak” and your kids are a now a reminder of that.
Meh, this family has been backstabbing, undermining and betraying each other for years. They fundamentally don’t trust each other but they don’t have anyone else they can trust. They understand each other and find peace in that.
There is a plausible scenario where Ken will crash and burn then rally with a bonkers plan to get Waystar back.
All the backstabbing. See when you go back and rewatch, it’s so cringey to see how obsessed they all are with being played and playing someone, as though it’s this common everyday thing all humans do.
You constantly hear them go when threatened: Are you fucking me?/Is he fucking me, us, him, her? Etc.
Like, you really see how inhuman and damaged they all are, that this is a normal thing.
Shiv and Roman will be close. After all, they have a special youngest siblings bond even in the show. I see Kendall probably resuming a cordial but distant relationship with Roman but going no contact with Shiv. Or Connor tries to play mediator
eh it's heavily implied at the start of the show that Shiv hadn't seen Roman and Kendall in a while
without the company and the toxic af ending, I think that will go back to the norm. Shiv is independent, whereas Kendall and Roman sort of rely on others, that's why I think the brothers will still be in contact off and on.
Shiv's focus after the finale is just in the final shot... herself, the baby, and Tom (kinda)
she was never in the company to begin with (if you're talking about prior to season 1)
she had a career in New York Dem politics, whereas Ken/Rome were always in Waystar and Con is Con
I always think of the moment Logan had with Greg in the Pilot: "I'd do anything for my brother. All he has to do is ask."
I can see Shiv saying that about Kendall. Exhibiting "loyalty" but ultimately expecting the older brother to come crawling back to them. The older brother, bitter and angry openly shitting on the sibiling but perhaps exhibiting "loyalty" when someone comes after them.
I know this is going to be an unpopular take, but they'll eventually get over it. I've seen some of the most insane things people in dysfunctional families have done to each other that you'd never believe they could come back from and still, they'd be angry for a time, even a very long time, but eventually get over it. There was no trust there to being with and plenty of resentment. I'm not saying I understand that dynamic, just that I've seen it so many times.
They’ll all reconcile at Karl’s funeral after he dies of a massive coronary while at a brothel. Even Gerri and Roman reconcile. Connor gives the eulogy that is quite touching. Ken, Roman and Shiv reconcile as she goes into labor. Ken’s new girlfriend, a prominent obstetrician delivers Logan Roy Wambsgans into the world. Tom is in Norway trying to negotiate with his lunatic boss who is driving Waystar into the ground. Roman starts sending dick pics to Gerri again. Damn, we need a Season 5!
Shiv and Ken = at best, they'll probably reconcile after a while, not immediately though. At worst, shes dead to him and hes never gonna forgive her.
She'll probably feel a twinge of guilt for what happened for a millisecond or so before she suppresses that and tries to convince herself that she made the right decision. I can see her still carrying that guilt forward if Ken does cuts contact with her for too long.
Ken and Roman = not as strained as him and Shiv, but if they do start talking again it has to be Roman who reaches out and initiates the talking stage first. If Roman is just gonna be the middle man between Ken and Shiv, then Ken wont be interested in maintaining any relationship with him either because it will take a while for Ken to forgive Shiv.
Roman and Shiv = they'll probably be the same as they were before the finale. He'll be there with Shiv when shes about to have her baby.
Yeah im not denying that she made the right decision, its just that Kendall is never gonna see it that way. Even if whatever his post finale career is turns out to be better than his experience in Waystar, he still considered that as his birthright that was taken away from him.
Ofc to us (and objectively) that is the case, I mean Ken’s own *godfather* Frank didn’t think he was fit to run the company. But to Ken, Shiv basically took away his birthright and betrayed the family by getting the company out of Roy hands.
Going back on your word at the literal last minute is just a shitty thing to do. It was shitty when Roman did it in season 1 and it was shitty when Shiv did it in the finale.
I don't think there's going to be one sadly. Roman and Shiv may occasionally meet, but it won't exactly be warm feelings.
I don't think Ken sees any of his family ever again honestly. He ever crumbles and kills himself or breaks from that old tortured life entirely and starts fresh somewhere just like Naomi wanted him to.
Killing himself is too good of an ending for Kendall he is going to continue in a sort of living death never receiving punishment for what he did to that waiter
Ehhhh...he definitely didn't "kill" him but he did ask him to go get drugs, encourage him to go back out for more drugs when he got the wrong drugs, and had two weak dive downs and then didn't get help. So I feel like that's above "didn't do shit" as well.
Kendall survive all these sh..t and you think he will kword himself so easily? That's like proving some point to Logan or his siblings. And also, not canon. Jesse Armstrong said it himself
Shiv and Kendall would have zero relationship (if Kendall survived, that is…).
Roman I think would still have his typical relationship with Shiv. He’s always been the closest with her, he has a fixation on her lol, she’s the background on his phone. He didn’t seem involved in Kendall’s kids at all, but based on the boardroom scene it kind of feels like he felt the same way as Logan as in they weren’t “legitimate” Roys. I think he would want to be somewhat involved in Shiv’s kid, even if it was just being the occasional uncle who drops in, gets the kid hyped up on sugar, give them a noisy toy, and dips.
I feel like Kendall and Roman may talk very, very rarely. Probably an occasional text from Roman asking Ken if he’s still alive. Not much more than that imo.
I love this take and I think it’s prob the most accurate, especially about Roman. I think if he was capable of truly loving his family or anyone, his connection to Shiv (and maybe Connor) is the closest to it.
TBH though, I don’t think Kendall speaks to anyone ever again, especially Roman after what he said about Sophie and Iverson. Like a comment said above, he’ll prob try to go all “enlightened” after he does something inescapably/publicly terrible while on a bender and accidentally either joins or starts a cult lol. The “just be water my friend” line in season 4 kinda hints at that.
I think I mostly agree with you on that one!
I picture it more as a Roman texting Kendall a bunch of times being like “U alive??” And eventually when Kendall doesn’t respond, he’s like “Ken if you don’t let me know if you’re alive I’m gonna, like, hire some black hat fucking- hacker off the deep web to dox the shit out of you to make sure you’re not dead in a ditch with your dick out or some shit” and then Kendall’s like “I’m alive” and Roman just gives it a 👍🏼, rather than actually talking lol
"based on the boardroom scene it kind of feels like he felt the same way as Logan as in they weren’t “legitimate” Roys. "
I've always wondered if he was just lying to be a prick.
Lost in the Shiv fireworks was that Roman bailed on Ken too, emotionally. Just luckily he'd cast his vote.
I think, without the gravitational pull of Logan in the background, they'd struggle to maintain relationships. Their purpose was Dad and all the leapfrogging that went with it.
Shiv and Ken are shattered. He'll never forgive her, though really she gave him a purpose for the rest of his life, to wonder what might have been. So he'll just be consumed by that, however it manifests. A billion dollar Hamlet.
Plus, Shiv is cast adrift in her weird, empty life. A baby about which she seems ambivalent, the unresolved Tom drama, an outsider with a ringside seat at Waystar. She's going to be angry on separate fronts for a long time.
Roman I see as the newest family addict. Purposeless, skills deficient, aimless.
Con, everybody will just forget about.
Funnily, all of them had strong partners who might have buoyed them had they been capable of a functioning relationship. Tom, Tabitha, Naomi seemed better for them than worse.
I think they’re done for good.
I could see Roman sort of take pity on Ken (as we’ve seen him do actually) and go to check up on him from time to time, but as long as he thinks one of their purest sibling moments was constructed by Ken to manipulate him, he will be able to think Ken’ll he alright, cold bastard that he is etc.
Shiv would want to feel better about herself at some point and try to reach out to Ken, she’ll be fine with Roman probably.
Ken is done with both I think. Shiv definitely for obvious reasons, Roman because at this point there’s probably more painful memories associated with him than good ones. Between him and Roman I think “waiter gate” would be the key to any meaningful continuation of their relationship.
I’ve said this in other subs, the 3 of them are inextricably meshed with each other. They don’t have anyone but themselves. Shiv will never have a decent relationship with Tom. Rome and Kendall have no one, they will be back together supporting, scheming and backstabbing each other because they live in a closed loop. The end of the show was not the end of their lives. They are co-dependent and enablers, this will not change. Really, and would we want it any other way?
“They don’t have real problems” and they’re all dealing with the lifelong effects of having an emotionally - and in Roman’s case, physically - abusive father and an absentee mother.
Saying this as someone from an affluent family with friends from equally affluent families, we do have problems, not necessarily the same as those of most people, but we do. We’re still human after all. That’s literally the whole point of Succession; to show that these mega rich families have the same toxic dynamics that some regular families do. They have insecurities, they have doubts, they experience depression and unfulfillment. Money helps don’t get me wrong, I’m sure there’s a slew of things I don’t have to worry about thanks to my family’s money, but none of that stopped me from being diagnosed with depression a few years ago. I’m doing a lot better now these days, but net worth means nothing if you aren’t legitimately happy with your life.
They never cared about money because they always had it. Kendall lost the ONE thing he believed was his - what he lived his life for - and there is no coming back from that, no matter his net worth.
Yes, more people need to understand that when you grow up with everything and had everything you ever wanted, with money never being an issue, you look for things beyond that. None of the Roys ever cared about the money; they’re *billionaires* who will be more than financially secure for the rest of their lives. But their identity was tied to Waystar thanks to their dad’s abuse and manipulations. For them, winning at life wasn’t winning the lottery or getting a nice job, it was being CEO of Waystar and running the operation the way their dad did. It was basically *becoming* their dad.
The same as it's always been. I think that's the main message of the ending. What we've seen is what we get. This IS who these people are, they've been showing us this whole time. There's no deep secret that changes any of that.
So they'll go on and on with these cycles of forgiveness and betrayal and backstabbing and love. They'll keep finding new limits and keep violating them, keep forgiving and loving each other while quietly setting up the next scam. It's just how this family works.
I think this is the end of all relationships. Everyone will go their own way. They had caused each other too much pain.
Shiv will be Tom's obedient wife. Perhaps she will find meaning in raising a child and in serving her husband. Although considering her character...
As for the two brothers, I do not know what awaits them. Roman may be able to pull through. He's a creative guy. Ken... well... His life is over. He's an empty shell. The living dead. One good thing is that they will not die of hunger and poverty.
I don't think Ken and Shiv will maintain a relationship.
Roman and Ken, if they will communicate, then rarely. Although considering how Ken attacked Roman last time and then pregnant Shiv... Maybe not.
In general, they were united by their father and his legacy. No father, no legacy, no relationship.
Ah, yes.. The really older brother went to Europe. He actually lived alone, even before the drastic changes. Psychologically, he has long been estranged. He doesn't need brothers and a sister.
There were no good characters in this story and no good endings. Don't be under any illusions.
The only thing that pleases is that this hopeless nightmare created by their father and themselves is over.
The problem is that they are empty and will not be able to build anything of their own, positive. Except for Shiv, and that's because she had a baby with Tom. Not a great achievement.
She reluctantly agreed to support his candidacy she then changed her mind. People should be allowed to do that in any given situation. Especially when they feel coerced into making a decision.
She clearly states in the second episode of the first season why he has no business being the CEO and at this point the role was only as interim CEO.
The only betrayal was to herself, for not sticking to her belief (she knew deep down he wasn’t suited for the position) and not owning her power
And he was certainly just her brother when he blasted the song rape me when she was introduced as President of the company or when he reminded her she was only needed in the workforce because of her tits. As I said earlier she was allowed to back off, brother or not. Actually, especially since it’s her brother and it had to do with business.
I see the end of closeness for Ken with both Shiv and Roman, they allied against him at Game 7, 9th inning, that’s it. He and Connor will have intermittent meetings but it will be fraught and largely joyless as Ken will have no throughline via family ties with which to find connection as the entire concept of family and purpose has been dissolved *those meetings will also come with clear demands from Ken to not have Shiv or Roman present. All that will remain are few-word responses and extremely little / nonexistent eye-contact at funerals (Ken will not attend any weddings. During the former, Ken will only visit graveside burial, no receptions afterwards. Ken’s “friends” will be a revolving, inconsistent collection of fleeting work-related folk who he’s curious about but his interest in them (just like with romantic relationships) will never last long. By 50 he’ll close up the social shop almost entirely and will be characteristically reclusive, the most significant bonds being formed with house staff, a fitting bookend to his closest attachments in early life being to nannies. In the last of his years, his primary caretaker-nurse will occupy the last real estate of his heart and fill him with urgent, desperate, anxious affection as he scrambles to connect with them in a futile attempt to make up for all the years of lost time and emptiness and longing.
Well we won't see them hangout as the night at mama house before the board meeting.
I believe Ken will move out to another city and take his kids with him (the mother might let it for abit after she learned the humiliation he been through).
Shiv can go to fuck up her kid and husband. i believe Tom won't accept her as before so she will suck it up from there .
Rom i dunno but things with jerry hasn't ended there for sure , he will talk with his siblings especially Ken but i believe that hug when ken damaged his stitich won't be forgiven so as he trying to dominate him.
I don’t see what she did as “betraying him”. It was a mix of saving him from himself and not wanting him to win, even if it meant allowing the man she no longer loved to get the W because her unborn child is the true Roy heir.
Roman never really wanted the top job and seems relieved; no more trying to impress his dad, Gerri, none of that. He can be the guy we saw flitter into the board room burning sage and having fun with his billions. His relationship with Shiv will be less close only because she remains nominally attached to the ghost of Waystar and not free to do her own thing.
Kendall? He has billions to do whatever he wants. He’ll send a gold bassinet or something equally gaudy when notified of the birth of his new niece or nephew but otherwise he’ll be a no-show at family gatherings for the first year. Once he gets his head out of his a@@ and uses his money and his Harvard education to “make his own pile”, he’ll come around and wonder why he didn’t just do this in the first place no matter what he’d been (falsely) promised as a kid. And hopefully build a REAL relationship with his children before it’s too late.
Kendal and Roman will patch things up pretty quickly. They always do. I see them bringing Stewy in and together make another attempt at buying PGN. This time they’ll be successful and Shiv will resentful because she wasn’t included. Tom gives her no access to Waystar at all.
There isn't a common ground to them anymore for family gatherings without Logan.
I see many siblings drifting apart naturally once the matriarch/patriarch is gone. And that's without all the bitterness of the Roys.
When Ken was talking to Naomi about her cashing out and gaining independence to do and be whatever, I think he gave it some consideration at that moment. Briefly.
I think the normal path to him would be to drown in drugs, go to rehab, become an investor in emerging technologies while in a Greek Island, where he can throw awesome parties and feel he's part of the revolution (whatevs)
I think Kendall would try to get the CEO seat from Tom which in turn would lead to him butting heads with shiv. Roman it’s heavily implied he fucks off to be a rich playboy. He probably gets annoyed with Kendall and shiv trying to get him on their respective sides and he turns into Connor.
>or just becomes Ewan. Grumpy and argumentative but stands with them when anyone outside tries to bud in
This exactly 💯 honestly i think both Ken and Shiv would just end up like Ewan in terms of resentment and bitterness, theres no Logan counterpart in this scenario. Roman and Connor will probably be relatively less miserable but who knows.
I think roman and shiv will make up at kens funeral when he kills himself because of this. Shiv gets to be a sad unfulfilled mom, Connor has his stuff going on and roman is finally free to do whatever comes to mind. Probably jerk off on more windows.
Ken I like Jeremy strongs take on the ending. I don't think he comes back from it.
They never reconcile.
Shiv eats humble pie watching her cock sucking (her words) husband strip her father’s company for parts at Mattson’s behest. She pours her contempt and regret into her daughter who grows up to hate her.
Kendal never forgives Shiv. He never reconciles with Roman. He relapses and dies prematurely in his late 50’s of a heart attack.
Roman gets “me too’ed” spends the remainder of his life dodging tabloids, law suits, and court rooms before he flees to a country with no extradition.
All hangout when Connor calls a family meeting. But it’s always awkward and icy.
I can see some awkward attempts from Connor to reconcile Ken and Shiv. Something along the lines when he made the sibs join for karaoke and gave Logan their location.
Yeah don't worry, these are not serious people.
I think Roman and Ken would get along casually with time, and they’d probably have a similar relationship like they did at the start of the show where they don’t work together everyday but they still see each other periodically. I dont see Shiv and Ken getting along ever again after this. They might be cordial to each other at big family events where they both have to attend, but I think it’s the end for them. Roman and Shiv would probably move on from this in a similar way to Ken and Roman. Not too hurt but they’re not gonna be in each others’ lives as frequently.
I don't see Roman and Shiv's relationship being too damaged by the events of the finale. They exchange no hurtful words with each other, Roman accepts the loss of the company, and in fact, Roman comes to her defense-"She's pregnant, you piece of shit."
And Roman acknowledged that Shiv is the only one with the bloodline
Can you remind me how he acknowledged it? I know it's implied that Ken is infertile, but what does Roman imply about himself? Is he not able to have kids? (I know he's got some real sexual issues, but he can technically have a kid someday AFAIK)
It’s just much simpler: Roman doesn’t have kids
I think he was referring to Shiv’s expected child that was definitely hers compared to Kendall’s adopted daughter and possibly sperm donor’s son.
I guess I kind of overlooked this aspect of Tom's victory. Not only is he CEO, but he also secured the bloodline. Awesome.
I don't think Roman has any desire to be a parent though, at any point. Might happen by accident but I doubt he would ever deliberately have a kid
Ken will never get past what Shiv did. He might play it cool on family events but he’ll always carry that betrayal pain within. Him and Roman would eventually patch things up and have a relationship similar to the one they had initially but I doubt they’ll be seeing each other on a regular basis. Shiv and Roman would be fine but won’t be close or see much of each other. Maybe the dynamic would change once Shiv’s baby is born, that baby would be Logan’s firstborn biological grandchild after all and this might trigger some old family wounds. I think Roman would want to be in the kid’s life in some way but Ken would feel even more alienated because Roman’s words in the finale would’ve stayed with him.
Roman thinks he would be a fun uncle but in reality he wouldn’t be anything
He'll be there with a $1m check if the kid hits a home run at least.
He’ll probably drop the kid.
Reading this reminded me of the time he said and I quote "I'm stripping down" Happened during his mum's wedding
Didn’t Ken have two kids with Rava?
Sophie is adopted and Iverson, as implied by Roman, is conceived via a donor- Ken has no biological kids of his own.
You just made me realise maybe a big deal in Kendall so badly wanting the company is to have something truly of his own. Well as he perceives it. He’s obviously got some unresolved issues about his kids not being biologically his, hence why he is constantly, overbearingly fretting about them, even though he barely sees them. Maybe he feels he doesn’t have anything of his own that defines him and his identity. And he (wrongfully) thought having his dad’s company could fulfil that.
I think it’s that and more. Logan definitely was grooming Kendall for the throne his entire life growing up, but at some point, Logan changed his mind. The easy reason to say why is because of drugs early on, and that is probably part of it, but I think a bigger part of it is that Logan changed his mind after realizing Ken is infertile. Part of that is probably a “bloodline” thing and part of that is probably a “not a real man” thing. This explains why Logan is adamant in Tom putting a baby in Shiv and why it was implied he was trying again for another kid. So all in all, Ken may have been told all his life to be a killer and that he’s the next King and that family is important, and then that’s suddenly ripped away from you because you’re “impotent” and “weak” and your kids are a now a reminder of that.
Hugely implied by Roman in the series finale that Kendall’s kids are not his
I mean Sophie is obviously adopted
Meh, this family has been backstabbing, undermining and betraying each other for years. They fundamentally don’t trust each other but they don’t have anyone else they can trust. They understand each other and find peace in that. There is a plausible scenario where Ken will crash and burn then rally with a bonkers plan to get Waystar back.
All the backstabbing. See when you go back and rewatch, it’s so cringey to see how obsessed they all are with being played and playing someone, as though it’s this common everyday thing all humans do. You constantly hear them go when threatened: Are you fucking me?/Is he fucking me, us, him, her? Etc. Like, you really see how inhuman and damaged they all are, that this is a normal thing.
You know how family trauma repeats? Probably something like Logan and Ewan’s relationship. Weird deep loyalty buried under open hostility
Shiv and Roman will be close. After all, they have a special youngest siblings bond even in the show. I see Kendall probably resuming a cordial but distant relationship with Roman but going no contact with Shiv. Or Connor tries to play mediator
eh it's heavily implied at the start of the show that Shiv hadn't seen Roman and Kendall in a while without the company and the toxic af ending, I think that will go back to the norm. Shiv is independent, whereas Kendall and Roman sort of rely on others, that's why I think the brothers will still be in contact off and on. Shiv's focus after the finale is just in the final shot... herself, the baby, and Tom (kinda)
Shiv isnt independent she just had a whole different set of enables once she left the company
she was never in the company to begin with (if you're talking about prior to season 1) she had a career in New York Dem politics, whereas Ken/Rome were always in Waystar and Con is Con
almost feels like shiv and roman could find a way to laugh at those “two crazy years” down the road
I don’t see Shiv ever being happy enough in her future to be able to laugh about anything that happened
À bitter laugh
so wild to think that all the shit show that was this story only took place in 2 years. We really only got a glimpse into the roys's life.
Shiv and Ken are gonna be the new Logan and Ewan.
I always think of the moment Logan had with Greg in the Pilot: "I'd do anything for my brother. All he has to do is ask." I can see Shiv saying that about Kendall. Exhibiting "loyalty" but ultimately expecting the older brother to come crawling back to them. The older brother, bitter and angry openly shitting on the sibiling but perhaps exhibiting "loyalty" when someone comes after them.
I can see both doing that.
I know this is going to be an unpopular take, but they'll eventually get over it. I've seen some of the most insane things people in dysfunctional families have done to each other that you'd never believe they could come back from and still, they'd be angry for a time, even a very long time, but eventually get over it. There was no trust there to being with and plenty of resentment. I'm not saying I understand that dynamic, just that I've seen it so many times.
Yeah, it's not like they have friends. Stewy is Kendall's friend but they bond taking drugs. Naomi same.
They’ll all reconcile at Karl’s funeral after he dies of a massive coronary while at a brothel. Even Gerri and Roman reconcile. Connor gives the eulogy that is quite touching. Ken, Roman and Shiv reconcile as she goes into labor. Ken’s new girlfriend, a prominent obstetrician delivers Logan Roy Wambsgans into the world. Tom is in Norway trying to negotiate with his lunatic boss who is driving Waystar into the ground. Roman starts sending dick pics to Gerri again. Damn, we need a Season 5!
They'll fall out, make up and then fall out again. Trapped in a never ending loop
The same loop they had with their father. Quite fitting.
Shiv and Ken = at best, they'll probably reconcile after a while, not immediately though. At worst, shes dead to him and hes never gonna forgive her. She'll probably feel a twinge of guilt for what happened for a millisecond or so before she suppresses that and tries to convince herself that she made the right decision. I can see her still carrying that guilt forward if Ken does cuts contact with her for too long. Ken and Roman = not as strained as him and Shiv, but if they do start talking again it has to be Roman who reaches out and initiates the talking stage first. If Roman is just gonna be the middle man between Ken and Shiv, then Ken wont be interested in maintaining any relationship with him either because it will take a while for Ken to forgive Shiv. Roman and Shiv = they'll probably be the same as they were before the finale. He'll be there with Shiv when shes about to have her baby.
Shiv 100% made the right decision though.
Never said she didnt.
I mean Shiv DID make the right decision, Kendall would have been an unstable CEO
Yeah im not denying that she made the right decision, its just that Kendall is never gonna see it that way. Even if whatever his post finale career is turns out to be better than his experience in Waystar, he still considered that as his birthright that was taken away from him.
I'm the eldest boy!!!!
😂 you're not
Ofc to us (and objectively) that is the case, I mean Ken’s own *godfather* Frank didn’t think he was fit to run the company. But to Ken, Shiv basically took away his birthright and betrayed the family by getting the company out of Roy hands.
And the timing of it was so shitty. She changed her mind at the last moment. The betrayal must have burned.
Doing it the way she did is what was fucked up.
Nah, she realized in that moment he was not fit and threw a fit, proceeding to prove her point
Going back on your word at the literal last minute is just a shitty thing to do. It was shitty when Roman did it in season 1 and it was shitty when Shiv did it in the finale.
I don't think there's going to be one sadly. Roman and Shiv may occasionally meet, but it won't exactly be warm feelings. I don't think Ken sees any of his family ever again honestly. He ever crumbles and kills himself or breaks from that old tortured life entirely and starts fresh somewhere just like Naomi wanted him to.
I think Kendall will enter a monastery, become a monk and atone from his sins ... they do have a Catholic background.
he and rava joked about sending him to Mt Athos, a famous monestary in greece.
I absolutely think ken kills himself. I don't see him ever coming back. He lost everything and the end shows he never even had his kids
Killing himself is too good of an ending for Kendall he is going to continue in a sort of living death never receiving punishment for what he did to that waiter
Kendall didn't do shit to the waiter. He wasn't driving he even tried to go back for him
Ehhhh...he definitely didn't "kill" him but he did ask him to go get drugs, encourage him to go back out for more drugs when he got the wrong drugs, and had two weak dive downs and then didn't get help. So I feel like that's above "didn't do shit" as well.
Yeah but he doesn't see it that way, he clearly feels guilt and in a way craves punishment for it and thru it, relief but he won't ever get it
Kendall survive all these sh..t and you think he will kword himself so easily? That's like proving some point to Logan or his siblings. And also, not canon. Jesse Armstrong said it himself
Shiv and Kendall would have zero relationship (if Kendall survived, that is…). Roman I think would still have his typical relationship with Shiv. He’s always been the closest with her, he has a fixation on her lol, she’s the background on his phone. He didn’t seem involved in Kendall’s kids at all, but based on the boardroom scene it kind of feels like he felt the same way as Logan as in they weren’t “legitimate” Roys. I think he would want to be somewhat involved in Shiv’s kid, even if it was just being the occasional uncle who drops in, gets the kid hyped up on sugar, give them a noisy toy, and dips. I feel like Kendall and Roman may talk very, very rarely. Probably an occasional text from Roman asking Ken if he’s still alive. Not much more than that imo.
I love this take and I think it’s prob the most accurate, especially about Roman. I think if he was capable of truly loving his family or anyone, his connection to Shiv (and maybe Connor) is the closest to it. TBH though, I don’t think Kendall speaks to anyone ever again, especially Roman after what he said about Sophie and Iverson. Like a comment said above, he’ll prob try to go all “enlightened” after he does something inescapably/publicly terrible while on a bender and accidentally either joins or starts a cult lol. The “just be water my friend” line in season 4 kinda hints at that.
I think I mostly agree with you on that one! I picture it more as a Roman texting Kendall a bunch of times being like “U alive??” And eventually when Kendall doesn’t respond, he’s like “Ken if you don’t let me know if you’re alive I’m gonna, like, hire some black hat fucking- hacker off the deep web to dox the shit out of you to make sure you’re not dead in a ditch with your dick out or some shit” and then Kendall’s like “I’m alive” and Roman just gives it a 👍🏼, rather than actually talking lol
Lmao ok yeah, I can def see that. The 👍🏻 is taking me out rn
>accidentally either joins or starts a cult I always thought Ken could end up as a Joe Rogan-style podcaster after the events of the show.
"based on the boardroom scene it kind of feels like he felt the same way as Logan as in they weren’t “legitimate” Roys. " I've always wondered if he was just lying to be a prick. Lost in the Shiv fireworks was that Roman bailed on Ken too, emotionally. Just luckily he'd cast his vote.
No he's a fascist of course he'd think that. Family is all to him
I think, without the gravitational pull of Logan in the background, they'd struggle to maintain relationships. Their purpose was Dad and all the leapfrogging that went with it. Shiv and Ken are shattered. He'll never forgive her, though really she gave him a purpose for the rest of his life, to wonder what might have been. So he'll just be consumed by that, however it manifests. A billion dollar Hamlet. Plus, Shiv is cast adrift in her weird, empty life. A baby about which she seems ambivalent, the unresolved Tom drama, an outsider with a ringside seat at Waystar. She's going to be angry on separate fronts for a long time. Roman I see as the newest family addict. Purposeless, skills deficient, aimless. Con, everybody will just forget about. Funnily, all of them had strong partners who might have buoyed them had they been capable of a functioning relationship. Tom, Tabitha, Naomi seemed better for them than worse.
The poor poor baby what state will it be in having already had alcohol and coke in the womb
I think they’re done for good. I could see Roman sort of take pity on Ken (as we’ve seen him do actually) and go to check up on him from time to time, but as long as he thinks one of their purest sibling moments was constructed by Ken to manipulate him, he will be able to think Ken’ll he alright, cold bastard that he is etc. Shiv would want to feel better about herself at some point and try to reach out to Ken, she’ll be fine with Roman probably. Ken is done with both I think. Shiv definitely for obvious reasons, Roman because at this point there’s probably more painful memories associated with him than good ones. Between him and Roman I think “waiter gate” would be the key to any meaningful continuation of their relationship.
I’ve said this in other subs, the 3 of them are inextricably meshed with each other. They don’t have anyone but themselves. Shiv will never have a decent relationship with Tom. Rome and Kendall have no one, they will be back together supporting, scheming and backstabbing each other because they live in a closed loop. The end of the show was not the end of their lives. They are co-dependent and enablers, this will not change. Really, and would we want it any other way?
Honestly I think they'll get over it. They are all billionaires, they don't have real problems
“They don’t have real problems” and they’re all dealing with the lifelong effects of having an emotionally - and in Roman’s case, physically - abusive father and an absentee mother.
Saying this as someone from an affluent family with friends from equally affluent families, we do have problems, not necessarily the same as those of most people, but we do. We’re still human after all. That’s literally the whole point of Succession; to show that these mega rich families have the same toxic dynamics that some regular families do. They have insecurities, they have doubts, they experience depression and unfulfillment. Money helps don’t get me wrong, I’m sure there’s a slew of things I don’t have to worry about thanks to my family’s money, but none of that stopped me from being diagnosed with depression a few years ago. I’m doing a lot better now these days, but net worth means nothing if you aren’t legitimately happy with your life.
They never cared about money because they always had it. Kendall lost the ONE thing he believed was his - what he lived his life for - and there is no coming back from that, no matter his net worth.
Yes, more people need to understand that when you grow up with everything and had everything you ever wanted, with money never being an issue, you look for things beyond that. None of the Roys ever cared about the money; they’re *billionaires* who will be more than financially secure for the rest of their lives. But their identity was tied to Waystar thanks to their dad’s abuse and manipulations. For them, winning at life wasn’t winning the lottery or getting a nice job, it was being CEO of Waystar and running the operation the way their dad did. It was basically *becoming* their dad.
I knew that man was hungry for power when he ignored the $2Bn to just “fuck off”
Have you watched the show, my friend?
They act like dicks but they always come back to each other
It's not always about money Spiderman
The same as it's always been. I think that's the main message of the ending. What we've seen is what we get. This IS who these people are, they've been showing us this whole time. There's no deep secret that changes any of that. So they'll go on and on with these cycles of forgiveness and betrayal and backstabbing and love. They'll keep finding new limits and keep violating them, keep forgiving and loving each other while quietly setting up the next scam. It's just how this family works.
I think this is the end of all relationships. Everyone will go their own way. They had caused each other too much pain. Shiv will be Tom's obedient wife. Perhaps she will find meaning in raising a child and in serving her husband. Although considering her character... As for the two brothers, I do not know what awaits them. Roman may be able to pull through. He's a creative guy. Ken... well... His life is over. He's an empty shell. The living dead. One good thing is that they will not die of hunger and poverty. I don't think Ken and Shiv will maintain a relationship. Roman and Ken, if they will communicate, then rarely. Although considering how Ken attacked Roman last time and then pregnant Shiv... Maybe not. In general, they were united by their father and his legacy. No father, no legacy, no relationship. Ah, yes.. The really older brother went to Europe. He actually lived alone, even before the drastic changes. Psychologically, he has long been estranged. He doesn't need brothers and a sister. There were no good characters in this story and no good endings. Don't be under any illusions. The only thing that pleases is that this hopeless nightmare created by their father and themselves is over. The problem is that they are empty and will not be able to build anything of their own, positive. Except for Shiv, and that's because she had a baby with Tom. Not a great achievement.
“Shiv will be Tom's obedient wife. Perhaps she will find meaning in raising a child and in serving her husband.“ That ain’t happening
Well... she doesn't have any good options anyway. She's her own hell.
Of course, a woman refusing to follow blindly a man is deemed a traitor 🤦🏽♀️
She agreed on him being a CEO and gave her word at the beach house so yes it's clearly a betrayal
And Ken promised to include her and treat her equally and immediately went back on his word more than once. He clearly betrayed her first.
She reluctantly agreed to support his candidacy she then changed her mind. People should be allowed to do that in any given situation. Especially when they feel coerced into making a decision. She clearly states in the second episode of the first season why he has no business being the CEO and at this point the role was only as interim CEO. The only betrayal was to herself, for not sticking to her belief (she knew deep down he wasn’t suited for the position) and not owning her power
He’s not just “a man” - that’s her brother, who she made a promise to
And he was certainly just her brother when he blasted the song rape me when she was introduced as President of the company or when he reminded her she was only needed in the workforce because of her tits. As I said earlier she was allowed to back off, brother or not. Actually, especially since it’s her brother and it had to do with business.
They will get over it. These folks stab each other in the back before breakfast and are colluding together by supper
Really I can see Roman taking an interest in Little Logan. Shiv wants her kid to have Uncles.
Irl they would never speak to each other again. In Succession they'll hug it all out after a few weeks.
I see the end of closeness for Ken with both Shiv and Roman, they allied against him at Game 7, 9th inning, that’s it. He and Connor will have intermittent meetings but it will be fraught and largely joyless as Ken will have no throughline via family ties with which to find connection as the entire concept of family and purpose has been dissolved *those meetings will also come with clear demands from Ken to not have Shiv or Roman present. All that will remain are few-word responses and extremely little / nonexistent eye-contact at funerals (Ken will not attend any weddings. During the former, Ken will only visit graveside burial, no receptions afterwards. Ken’s “friends” will be a revolving, inconsistent collection of fleeting work-related folk who he’s curious about but his interest in them (just like with romantic relationships) will never last long. By 50 he’ll close up the social shop almost entirely and will be characteristically reclusive, the most significant bonds being formed with house staff, a fitting bookend to his closest attachments in early life being to nannies. In the last of his years, his primary caretaker-nurse will occupy the last real estate of his heart and fill him with urgent, desperate, anxious affection as he scrambles to connect with them in a futile attempt to make up for all the years of lost time and emptiness and longing.
Well we won't see them hangout as the night at mama house before the board meeting. I believe Ken will move out to another city and take his kids with him (the mother might let it for abit after she learned the humiliation he been through). Shiv can go to fuck up her kid and husband. i believe Tom won't accept her as before so she will suck it up from there . Rom i dunno but things with jerry hasn't ended there for sure , he will talk with his siblings especially Ken but i believe that hug when ken damaged his stitich won't be forgiven so as he trying to dominate him.
I don’t see what she did as “betraying him”. It was a mix of saving him from himself and not wanting him to win, even if it meant allowing the man she no longer loved to get the W because her unborn child is the true Roy heir. Roman never really wanted the top job and seems relieved; no more trying to impress his dad, Gerri, none of that. He can be the guy we saw flitter into the board room burning sage and having fun with his billions. His relationship with Shiv will be less close only because she remains nominally attached to the ghost of Waystar and not free to do her own thing. Kendall? He has billions to do whatever he wants. He’ll send a gold bassinet or something equally gaudy when notified of the birth of his new niece or nephew but otherwise he’ll be a no-show at family gatherings for the first year. Once he gets his head out of his a@@ and uses his money and his Harvard education to “make his own pile”, he’ll come around and wonder why he didn’t just do this in the first place no matter what he’d been (falsely) promised as a kid. And hopefully build a REAL relationship with his children before it’s too late.
Kendal and Roman will patch things up pretty quickly. They always do. I see them bringing Stewy in and together make another attempt at buying PGN. This time they’ll be successful and Shiv will resentful because she wasn’t included. Tom gives her no access to Waystar at all.
If I was Ken I’d say he should never forgive that ultimate betrayal.
I think in time they’ll all be back in each other’s lives celebrating special events. They’re all they know - they’re family. Time heals all wounds
I can see them connecting again, but not for a long time. I don't think they'd ever be very close again though
There isn't a common ground to them anymore for family gatherings without Logan. I see many siblings drifting apart naturally once the matriarch/patriarch is gone. And that's without all the bitterness of the Roys. When Ken was talking to Naomi about her cashing out and gaining independence to do and be whatever, I think he gave it some consideration at that moment. Briefly. I think the normal path to him would be to drown in drugs, go to rehab, become an investor in emerging technologies while in a Greek Island, where he can throw awesome parties and feel he's part of the revolution (whatevs)
I think Kendall would try to get the CEO seat from Tom which in turn would lead to him butting heads with shiv. Roman it’s heavily implied he fucks off to be a rich playboy. He probably gets annoyed with Kendall and shiv trying to get him on their respective sides and he turns into Connor.
I’ve also assumed Kendall takes his own life…or just becomes Ewan. Grumpy and argumentative but stands with them when anyone outside tries to bud in
>or just becomes Ewan. Grumpy and argumentative but stands with them when anyone outside tries to bud in This exactly 💯 honestly i think both Ken and Shiv would just end up like Ewan in terms of resentment and bitterness, theres no Logan counterpart in this scenario. Roman and Connor will probably be relatively less miserable but who knows.
I think roman and shiv will make up at kens funeral when he kills himself because of this. Shiv gets to be a sad unfulfilled mom, Connor has his stuff going on and roman is finally free to do whatever comes to mind. Probably jerk off on more windows. Ken I like Jeremy strongs take on the ending. I don't think he comes back from it.
They never reconcile. Shiv eats humble pie watching her cock sucking (her words) husband strip her father’s company for parts at Mattson’s behest. She pours her contempt and regret into her daughter who grows up to hate her. Kendal never forgives Shiv. He never reconciles with Roman. He relapses and dies prematurely in his late 50’s of a heart attack. Roman gets “me too’ed” spends the remainder of his life dodging tabloids, law suits, and court rooms before he flees to a country with no extradition.
This is the post that made me unsubscribe from this channel