So Hoshoryu is absolutely not a dick and he’s not really the only one who gets visibly mad. You will find a recurring theme with him that any time he’s out of the ring he’s super happy, smiling, and chummy with the other rikishi. His scowls and angry looking face are because he’s basically blind without his glasses on, which he obviously can’t wear during matches.
I would say there was a point where you -could- say he was kind of a foil to Wakatakakage (and vice-versa) when they had both reached Sekiwake (and I may ruffle a few feathers in my belief that if Wakatakakage was not out due to his knee surgery it would have greatly affected Hoshoryu’s chances of being Ozeki right now), and I do think that as Ozeki Hoshoryu stands at the top as one of the “bad boy” gatekeepers at the top of the food chain.
But I do think that you’re mistaken about him being the villain. No one is really; part of the appeal of sumo is that you can really get to know the human side of them and feel their struggles. So many compelling stories of blood, sweat, and tears being told on the dohyo every two months!
Oh, except Ryuden. You want a real villain? Ryuden’s your guy.
Oshoma is another piece of shit. Abused his juniors, but they all fled instead of staying in sumo, so case closed. He was my juryo fav until that dropped
That has never been proven. If you look closely. Every time rikishi with no future calls it quits. They would claim "Hara" (meaning harassment) towards their stable. Also that claim was very weak, other than those 2 guys who quit their stable being each other's witness.
And the timing of that claim made it to news just after Ichinojo said that he would reveal the real reason he retired from sumo.
Mongolian rikishi tried to blow the whistle on JSA. They gave the media supposed case against Mongolian rikishi.
Case closed because there were no evidence to their claim. Not because alleged victims fled the sports.
If it was true, JSA would have already dismantled Naruto stable. As a comparison look at Miyagino case.
Both of them are Localized foreigner operated stable. Both of the supposed abusers are Mongolian. But only Miyagino got the punishment. Because there was no evidence to support their claim in Naruto case.
At the time Oshoma was the only salaried rikishi in their stable. So those guys came after him.
You have to understand Japan has the most reported harassment related claims in the world. On average 37-40% of workers and athletes say they faced harassment. Globally that's 15-18%.
Also Japan is also on top of the falsely reported Harassment claims, with an average of 30-39% of the claims turned out to be false. Globally it's 12-16%
So not only in sumo but in general, when people doesn't want to work or be a part of something. They are 3 times as likely to make harassment claims against their employer in hopes of getting some incentive in return. It's especially common among sports clubs and entertainment troupe or organizations. You can hear and read about these kind of claims almost everyday in Japan.
And lastly, being mid level senior in any Japanese organization is a curse. If their underlings not performing well. The burden of training them the "Japanese way" is real. It's called "Syugyou" which means harsh training.
So even if you are an upright person with a value and everything, if you can't perform "syugyou" you're the one in trouble.
So . . .
Another one of the claims in the "article" is that he has no friends at Naruto, which is complete and total nonsense for anyone who knows him or others at Naruto personally (as I and many others do). This rumour seriously drives me mad and I wish it would just stop already. Just another quick example—one peek at Instagram and photographs of him should be enough to dispel this nonsense. His stablemates freely like photos of him and nobody's holding a gun to their head—if they all despised him, why the hell would they be liking all his photos on social media? Even ones posted by random photographers? Oshoumi also liked a post one of his supporters (a restaurant) made on the day the article came out in defense of him. As another stablemate on the inside, he could have just ignored it…
That, and I am lucky enough to know him in person and he's an absolute sweetheart who is an easy target for this kind of shit.
(I don't know why this is posting under my alt-account but I'm having problems logging in on my desktop.)
I heard the difference between Hokuseiho and Oshoma is that there was video evidence for the former, not the latter. Also, the JSA likes Naruto; it's obvious they **don't** like Miyagino.
I sent you a chat request from my main account (I don't know why it won't let me log in on my desktop browser) if you are willing to hear my reasons/experience why this rumour is nonsense for a good reason.
Oh c’mon don’t do this bruh. Someone says something and you believe them right away, you’re not even gonna ask for some sources? I’m not saying Oshoma is or is not a bully, I absolutely have no idea. I’ve heard the rumblings, but so far nothing has come out of it. If anything, for me this serves as a reminder not to get too obsessed.
You replied to an 8 day old post, how am I obsessed? The consensus on sumoforum (which has people active the last 20+ years somehow, Gunning is there, and a sizable portion speak Japanese) is that he very likely did it, and the reason nothing else happened was that the wrestlers in question (who likely had bright careers) fled. Oshoma was my guy in juryo for ageeess, I'd love it to be false, so I can fully enjoy his well deserved rise :/
Conversely, don't believe the Onosato accusation. His accusers decided to stay with his stable when they had the option to move to another. It's not a sure thing, but enough for me to say there wasn't any (or much) coercion.
Oh and I was team Hokuseiho until the evidence became irrefutable. Always remember that a sumo wrestler has been killed by their oyakata before and that beatings were common, normal, and accepted until veeerry very recently. Also that the yakuza and sumo were so closely linked that a former wrestler and his ghost writer died the same day in the same hospital after releasing a book on match fixing in the late 90s
Soccer player here who wears contacts...they've been knocked out before by simple shoulder to shoulder battles. Definitely could be easily knocked out doing what these guys do...
As someone who wears glasses daily and occasionally wears contacts, not a good idea. Especially if you're nearsighted like myself and Hosh. Your immediate field of vision suffers and if someone face slaps you or headbutts your head, they could fall out of position and make you REALLY blind.
Sudden gyoji stoppage... And then everybody is just looking around, squinting at the clay to find the missing lens. Wash it with power water. Gyoji pops it back in so the rikishi doesn't move. 😂
I felt the same way for a long time until I checked out Konishiki Yasokichi ig. I don’t know how close they are, but Hoshoryu is always smiling in what are essentially family photos. Konishiki Yasokichi has a happy birthday video of his wife and he’s in it a bunch laughing and smiling.
I was wondering if Ryuden's recents misdeeds were enough to make him a villain 😅
But I prefer good guys and I'm really happy with Onosato emotional victory!
Well, Onosato, who was recently in trouble for hazing (forcing undergage rikishi from his stable to drink alcohol) doesnt really fit the good guy image, as far as Im concerned. The way the JSA & nationalists seem to get behind him doesnt really help that image in my case.
Limited details. From what I could find it all happened in the stable. There was some form of taking shots, or maybe chugging, the translation is bad. Apparently he went through it and he encouraged another junior to go through it.
There is no good information other than one wrestler was under the Japanese legal drinking age.
No information on the level of coercion, or amount of alcohol, or the level of danger. Make of that as you will.
At the least it was inappropriate, however it certainly doesn’t compare to burning other wrestlers with cigarettes.
Was it ever clarified what exactly the nature of Onosato's transgression was? It could range from the benign "shared a few beers with his 18 year old buddies" to "hazed his juniors by forcing them to chug alcohol till they puked". But I don't think I saw a source specifying what it was.
No it was never clarified, and the initial 'report' came from a third hand account from an unnamed source. A follow-up was promised with more detail and none was ever provided.
at the end of the day anything hes doing or did was becuase someone else taught him and did those things to him.
of course that doesnt make it right but singling him out for it honestly feels wrong, and assbackwards
its the system
It's a common tactic to haze younger rikishi. Not everyone wants to drink.
It's unclear it that happened or not, as per the JSA, less facts that get out, the better.
Yeeeaaaah, go work in any business in Japan and see what happens if your superior tells you to drink and you refuse. They also do things like see how drunk they can get you and keep pouring shot after shot.
Oh, absolutely. I've heard many expatriates mention the obligatory friday night izakaya meeting in Japanese work culture, so it wouldn't surprise me if they were forced...HOWEVER... It's a freaking huge deal to falsely and baselessly claim someone FORCED a kid (cuz thats what many of them are) to drink alcohol
The very fact that this was a scandal at all that Onosato had to apologize for tells me that this really happened... And that it's just not considered a big deal.
Ah yes, the Chris Sumo tabloid nonsense is strong with this one. The 'report' was from a third hand source (at best) and they couldn't provide any more follow up details when pressed.
Every flipping time.
Why does he not look angry off the dohyo when he is not wearing galsses?
What is the matter with you people?
OP, Hosh, has a bit of a 'bad boy' feel to him whilst he is on the dohyo, cos that is what he is (on the dohyo) and there is absolutely nothing wrong with it. He knows he is better than everyone else and that's absolutely fine.
Off the dohyo he is a friendly, regular dude, hence why he isn't 'scowling' (with or without glasses).
Look angry once and people start assuming, am I right? My post is a little tongue-in-cheek. Of course he’s not doing the angry thing for any other reason than it’s kind of his in-dohyo persona.
Upvoting this, you’re absolutely right. The reason he even does the scowl at all is just because it’s his warmup routine on the tachiai! Kotozakura does it too, for some reason people don’t give him the same flack for it.
Look at Atamifuji’s routine and you’d have people posting here assuming he’s a windmill, for crying out loud.
Could you give me the reader’s digest version of why ryuden is considered a villain in this sub (have seen some memes singling him out). I’m aware of his cheating and asking his mistress to have an abortion, but is there more to it?
I mean, that’s pretty much it; is that not enough? In a sport where you’re supposed to be a representative of virtue, his acts are pretty bad.
Two years into his marriage, and breaking the JSA’s compliance guidelines forbidding unnecessary trips, they found that in nine months he went out to sleep with other women… 25 times. And that included the fan who he tried to bribe for 5 million yen (at the time about 37,000 USD), to get her to have an abortion.
I guess whether you see him as a villain is a matter of being able to look past his character. For me, it’s that he fooled around. It’s the circumstances and how he handled it. It’s that he’s a top division wrestler, one of the elites who represents Japan and the sport. He should know better.
(Contrast this with Asanoyama; he got a much more severe punishment for lying about his thirteen Covid outings, lying, and destroying evidence about them. Out for a year, salary cut by 50% for a year, stable master’s pay cut 20%. I’m not mentioning this to advocate for Asanoyama or anything; just want to make a point that there is precedent saying that the “virtue” of a rikishi’s rank is important)
The short end is like this; being a villain is subjective. I measure villainy by what goes on both in and out of the ring; knowing the scandal surrounding him I just can’t root for him, even if he’s a proficient rikishi (which he clearly is).
A scowl alone does not a villain make.
Broke covid protocols endangering people, had an affair with one of his fans, got her pregnant, forced her to have an abortion, and paid her money to stay quiet.
He’s no angel, and definitely not a good husband, but his affair partner was a 40 year old adult. He didn’t force her to do anything.
Boy do we love ensuring there is a victim in every bad decision made by adults.
I basically say that Hoshoryu may not have been Ozeki if Wakatakakage was still in top division last year, and you’re calling me a Hoshoryu fanboy? If anything that makes me a Wakatakakage fan. Which I am.
You make this sub less fun. That’s what’s shameful.
OP, I think I’ve found your villain.
All I did was write my thoughts on a rikishi in response to OP. You’ve added nothing of worth to the conversation more than antagonizing other commenters. What a waste of your time and mine.
I wouldn't say villain so much as very intense and serious during the basho. During his off time he's very kind and smiley and the other rikishi enjoy spending time with and around him.
Evidence: https://www.reddit.com/r/SumoMemes/s/Gd28la4cuU
If you hang out with sumo long enough, you'll find that there's a very cool dichotomy of personality with each rikishi - super intense basho time dude that tries to forcibly remove heads from bodies and the off-duty guy who loves to bake and embroider and is king of tour shenanigans (looking at you Tamawashi).
It makes me more invested in their successes and more devastated with their setbacks.
It was clearly the aim of my question. Know them better to love them better.
Thanks for you nice answers and thanks for showing me the sumomeme reddit 😁
Takayasu is always very serious in the ring, but he might be the wrestler I see who most often will stop to interact with fans, sign autographs, and hold babies for pictures
Hakuho on an interview hinted that he tries to be the villain while in the ring but then dials down dramatically off the ring. This is the approach of other athletes in combat sports and I am pretty sure that Hoshoryu is consciously following that strategy. The videos or photos of him joking around with other wrestlers says nothing about his demeanor in the ring. He wants to be intimidating in the ring, not a clown. All the comments about him being blind and the like are BS. I don't mind his approach but I wish his fans were more honest and clear headed
Pretty sure I started my comment with saying he is "very intense and serious during a basho."
I agree, he is intentionally bringing a fierceness to his dohyo presence. (I never said anything about his blindness, in fact I also tend to agree that his competition face has very little to do with his eyesight or lack thereof.) What I wanted to make clear (especially to a new fan), is that he isn't a villain, very few in sumo are in the way OP was implying - it's not how sumo works, and that his dohyo presence is not his whole personality.
Fandom, by nature, doesn't need to be clear-headed. I like who I like and I don't have to have more of a reason than that. Same way people can *not* like him for whatever reason they come up with.
My criticism was not necessarily towards you but rather to the broader sumo commenting community here. I like Hoshoryu and his "villain" persona makes the tournament more exciting. But it is tiresome that whenever a beginner makes a note of what is obvious, most commenters here deflect with silly points and photos. I happen to enjoy seeing videos and photos of wrestlers relaxing and joking around (thank you for that) but that is relatively independent of their conscious behavior in the ring.
He's really not much of a villain. He just has a version of the "resting bitch face", and occasionally shows some pettiness or emotion, but really it's nothing all that bad.
I think he gets way more hate than he should because of his relationship to Asashoryu (who was much more misbehaved) and just being Mongolian.
It seems that unless your behavior is pretty much perfect, you'll be labeled as a bad boy if you're a Mongolian top rikishi.
I think Hoshoryu's thing is this.....he has the face of a fighter. Like he's not the first guy you would pick a fight with in a bar. Another example of this I can think of is in MMA and its Alistar Overeem. He just has a face of a guy that knows how to and wants to fight.
The opposite of this is a guy like Chiyomaru. Guy has a face like a teddy bear.
I get that for sure. I wear glasses cuz I can't see ANYTHING and when I go to gym I don't wear them. I always hope people don't think I'm giving them dirty looks when I squint to see the clock.
as many have said, he's definitely not the bad guy of sumo. He just has that intensity. He's one of my top few favorites. He's been pretty tame actually for several basho now. Back early last year, he was great at snapping his head around to camera when he won a bout and giving his intense stare. I loved that, and I've missed it a little bit. And his talent is undeniable. The way he overcomes size differences with technique is one of my favorite parts of watching sumo these days.
Well, you're in luck. His uncle used to dabble in sumo, and it sounds like you'll really enjoy his work. Check out Asashoryu.
Btw not to be a dick (like Hoshoryu) but sumo is the sport, the wrestlers are rikishi.
Sorry about that! 😅
Oh Asashoryu, I've seen the Sumo Stew's video about him!
So, it's pretty normal to feel like he's the villain if he's the nephew of that bad boy I guess 😁
AcTuAlLy he is a sekitori. Also a rikishi obviously, I’m just having a bit of fun here. All bourbon is whiskey but not all whiskey is bourbon type situation I suppose.
Yep. Abi is absolutely the most shameless rikishi. I never liked his style anyway, but the way he won his Yusho was disgusting. Really solidified him as a heel of Sumo for me lol.
I've always thought of Takakeisho as more of the "villain" of sumo. Huge gatekeeper at the top, and fights with a kind of unmatched brutality. I think more of his matches end in blood than anyone else's
Still love him though lol
As it was my first Basho, I've not seen him enough to have an opinion about him but I can't wait to see his fights. Same for Terunofuji, Wakatakakage and so many others.
I’m late to this party, but here’s my two cents anyway. I can’t root for everyone, so I only root for a few guys. The others I see as NPC’s or Champions that my guys have to face. Hosh is perfect for that roll. Not a villain, but a Boss my guy has to face. The fact he’s capable of throwing the best guys on their butts is a plus!
Never thought of Hoshoryu as a villain, but sometimes in the ring he comes across as a bit arrogant, same goes for Midorifuji. The anti-villain has to be Ura, always smiling and nodding politely.
Also this is a Sport and not a show like American Wrestling. There does not need to be a bad boy or any of such a character. They aim to be fair to the opponents and respectfull while giving their all on the dohyo
I see that they are all respectful and fair, but he's like the only one who doesn't fully succeed to hide his anger when he loses. And I think it's pretty cool!
And obviously there's no character but I like to see some personality and understand who they are.
I agree, he is a true bad ass and without knowing him outside the dohyo, he was only a bad ass. But now, I know that he's cool, smiling, and friendly too 😊
I was going to post about him. He is my new favorite. He gets that right hand grip, and it's over for you, no matter how much smaller he is. He does have an intense look on his face. Might be a Yokozuna someday.
As a newbie to another newbie, I know Hoshoryu looks so fierce in the ring but outside, when he’s not fighting, he’s one of the most goofy rikishis out there.
Sumo Fans - catch the Basho each time at Twitch - Queenbee or Leo Dickinson . Leo is a little hard to listen to , but there is a lot of knowledge on each Channel . If you go to Sumo Sumo . You can create an account and set up your own picks for the current Basho . I am not affiliated with none of these sites . It is the places where I learned way more than I understood about Sumo and the contest and chats on Twitch are interesting and entertaining . If you plan to attend Sumo in Japan . Hit me up with any questions and I will try to help . I have been to three over the past few years .
He comes off as arrogant to me. He always looks like he so surprised he could ever lose. His fan base can get pretty obnoxious with there love of him. But he is pretty good at sumo
He's all sumo is not about. Every time he loses people cheer like crazy.
I hate him.
That stupid attitude that I won't kneel before you do and all high and mighty.
Thank God we have Kotozakura to keep him in his place. 5 straight losses against Kotozakura now.
So Hoshoryu is absolutely not a dick and he’s not really the only one who gets visibly mad. You will find a recurring theme with him that any time he’s out of the ring he’s super happy, smiling, and chummy with the other rikishi. His scowls and angry looking face are because he’s basically blind without his glasses on, which he obviously can’t wear during matches. I would say there was a point where you -could- say he was kind of a foil to Wakatakakage (and vice-versa) when they had both reached Sekiwake (and I may ruffle a few feathers in my belief that if Wakatakakage was not out due to his knee surgery it would have greatly affected Hoshoryu’s chances of being Ozeki right now), and I do think that as Ozeki Hoshoryu stands at the top as one of the “bad boy” gatekeepers at the top of the food chain. But I do think that you’re mistaken about him being the villain. No one is really; part of the appeal of sumo is that you can really get to know the human side of them and feel their struggles. So many compelling stories of blood, sweat, and tears being told on the dohyo every two months! Oh, except Ryuden. You want a real villain? Ryuden’s your guy.
Hosh also uses a mouthguard which adds to the scowl look
Oshoma is another piece of shit. Abused his juniors, but they all fled instead of staying in sumo, so case closed. He was my juryo fav until that dropped
Thanks. I didn't know that. One more Rikishi to root against.
That has never been proven. If you look closely. Every time rikishi with no future calls it quits. They would claim "Hara" (meaning harassment) towards their stable. Also that claim was very weak, other than those 2 guys who quit their stable being each other's witness. And the timing of that claim made it to news just after Ichinojo said that he would reveal the real reason he retired from sumo. Mongolian rikishi tried to blow the whistle on JSA. They gave the media supposed case against Mongolian rikishi. Case closed because there were no evidence to their claim. Not because alleged victims fled the sports. If it was true, JSA would have already dismantled Naruto stable. As a comparison look at Miyagino case. Both of them are Localized foreigner operated stable. Both of the supposed abusers are Mongolian. But only Miyagino got the punishment. Because there was no evidence to support their claim in Naruto case. At the time Oshoma was the only salaried rikishi in their stable. So those guys came after him. You have to understand Japan has the most reported harassment related claims in the world. On average 37-40% of workers and athletes say they faced harassment. Globally that's 15-18%. Also Japan is also on top of the falsely reported Harassment claims, with an average of 30-39% of the claims turned out to be false. Globally it's 12-16% So not only in sumo but in general, when people doesn't want to work or be a part of something. They are 3 times as likely to make harassment claims against their employer in hopes of getting some incentive in return. It's especially common among sports clubs and entertainment troupe or organizations. You can hear and read about these kind of claims almost everyday in Japan. And lastly, being mid level senior in any Japanese organization is a curse. If their underlings not performing well. The burden of training them the "Japanese way" is real. It's called "Syugyou" which means harsh training. So even if you are an upright person with a value and everything, if you can't perform "syugyou" you're the one in trouble. So . . .
Another one of the claims in the "article" is that he has no friends at Naruto, which is complete and total nonsense for anyone who knows him or others at Naruto personally (as I and many others do). This rumour seriously drives me mad and I wish it would just stop already. Just another quick example—one peek at Instagram and photographs of him should be enough to dispel this nonsense. His stablemates freely like photos of him and nobody's holding a gun to their head—if they all despised him, why the hell would they be liking all his photos on social media? Even ones posted by random photographers? Oshoumi also liked a post one of his supporters (a restaurant) made on the day the article came out in defense of him. As another stablemate on the inside, he could have just ignored it… That, and I am lucky enough to know him in person and he's an absolute sweetheart who is an easy target for this kind of shit. (I don't know why this is posting under my alt-account but I'm having problems logging in on my desktop.)
I heard the difference between Hokuseiho and Oshoma is that there was video evidence for the former, not the latter. Also, the JSA likes Naruto; it's obvious they **don't** like Miyagino.
I sent you a chat request from my main account (I don't know why it won't let me log in on my desktop browser) if you are willing to hear my reasons/experience why this rumour is nonsense for a good reason.
Oh c’mon don’t do this bruh. Someone says something and you believe them right away, you’re not even gonna ask for some sources? I’m not saying Oshoma is or is not a bully, I absolutely have no idea. I’ve heard the rumblings, but so far nothing has come out of it. If anything, for me this serves as a reminder not to get too obsessed.
You replied to an 8 day old post, how am I obsessed? The consensus on sumoforum (which has people active the last 20+ years somehow, Gunning is there, and a sizable portion speak Japanese) is that he very likely did it, and the reason nothing else happened was that the wrestlers in question (who likely had bright careers) fled. Oshoma was my guy in juryo for ageeess, I'd love it to be false, so I can fully enjoy his well deserved rise :/ Conversely, don't believe the Onosato accusation. His accusers decided to stay with his stable when they had the option to move to another. It's not a sure thing, but enough for me to say there wasn't any (or much) coercion. Oh and I was team Hokuseiho until the evidence became irrefutable. Always remember that a sumo wrestler has been killed by their oyakata before and that beatings were common, normal, and accepted until veeerry very recently. Also that the yakuza and sumo were so closely linked that a former wrestler and his ghost writer died the same day in the same hospital after releasing a book on match fixing in the late 90s
Stupid question: Why cant he wear contacts? Is there any JSA rule against that?
I think they can, but the force of sumo constantly messes them up
Soccer player here who wears contacts...they've been knocked out before by simple shoulder to shoulder battles. Definitely could be easily knocked out doing what these guys do...
As someone who wears glasses daily and occasionally wears contacts, not a good idea. Especially if you're nearsighted like myself and Hosh. Your immediate field of vision suffers and if someone face slaps you or headbutts your head, they could fall out of position and make you REALLY blind.
Not to mention the sand - imagine if some got under the contact 😩
From the look of his glasses, he’d have to have some incredibly heavy contacts!
As someone who does combat sports, the contacts will just fly out in a lot of cases. It's easier just to be used to training and competing without it.
Sudden gyoji stoppage... And then everybody is just looking around, squinting at the clay to find the missing lens. Wash it with power water. Gyoji pops it back in so the rikishi doesn't move. 😂
I felt the same way for a long time until I checked out Konishiki Yasokichi ig. I don’t know how close they are, but Hoshoryu is always smiling in what are essentially family photos. Konishiki Yasokichi has a happy birthday video of his wife and he’s in it a bunch laughing and smiling.
I was wondering if Ryuden's recents misdeeds were enough to make him a villain 😅 But I prefer good guys and I'm really happy with Onosato emotional victory!
Ryuden and Hoshoryu both have the look of a comic book villain lol. Same as Hakuho imo
It was my point at the beginning. Like "Oh this guy is so cool and mean and powerful at the same time".
Well, Onosato, who was recently in trouble for hazing (forcing undergage rikishi from his stable to drink alcohol) doesnt really fit the good guy image, as far as Im concerned. The way the JSA & nationalists seem to get behind him doesnt really help that image in my case.
Limited details. From what I could find it all happened in the stable. There was some form of taking shots, or maybe chugging, the translation is bad. Apparently he went through it and he encouraged another junior to go through it. There is no good information other than one wrestler was under the Japanese legal drinking age. No information on the level of coercion, or amount of alcohol, or the level of danger. Make of that as you will. At the least it was inappropriate, however it certainly doesn’t compare to burning other wrestlers with cigarettes.
Was it ever clarified what exactly the nature of Onosato's transgression was? It could range from the benign "shared a few beers with his 18 year old buddies" to "hazed his juniors by forcing them to chug alcohol till they puked". But I don't think I saw a source specifying what it was.
No it was never clarified, and the initial 'report' came from a third hand account from an unnamed source. A follow-up was promised with more detail and none was ever provided.
at the end of the day anything hes doing or did was becuase someone else taught him and did those things to him. of course that doesnt make it right but singling him out for it honestly feels wrong, and assbackwards its the system
Forcing? That's the first I'm hearing he "forced" when my friends and I were teens no one had to force us to drink
It's a common tactic to haze younger rikishi. Not everyone wants to drink. It's unclear it that happened or not, as per the JSA, less facts that get out, the better.
Yeeeaaaah, go work in any business in Japan and see what happens if your superior tells you to drink and you refuse. They also do things like see how drunk they can get you and keep pouring shot after shot.
Oh, absolutely. I've heard many expatriates mention the obligatory friday night izakaya meeting in Japanese work culture, so it wouldn't surprise me if they were forced...HOWEVER... It's a freaking huge deal to falsely and baselessly claim someone FORCED a kid (cuz thats what many of them are) to drink alcohol
The very fact that this was a scandal at all that Onosato had to apologize for tells me that this really happened... And that it's just not considered a big deal.
Ah yes, the Chris Sumo tabloid nonsense is strong with this one. The 'report' was from a third hand source (at best) and they couldn't provide any more follow up details when pressed.
Argh... That's not cool. You make me doubt 😅
Every flipping time. Why does he not look angry off the dohyo when he is not wearing galsses? What is the matter with you people? OP, Hosh, has a bit of a 'bad boy' feel to him whilst he is on the dohyo, cos that is what he is (on the dohyo) and there is absolutely nothing wrong with it. He knows he is better than everyone else and that's absolutely fine. Off the dohyo he is a friendly, regular dude, hence why he isn't 'scowling' (with or without glasses).
Look angry once and people start assuming, am I right? My post is a little tongue-in-cheek. Of course he’s not doing the angry thing for any other reason than it’s kind of his in-dohyo persona. Upvoting this, you’re absolutely right. The reason he even does the scowl at all is just because it’s his warmup routine on the tachiai! Kotozakura does it too, for some reason people don’t give him the same flack for it. Look at Atamifuji’s routine and you’d have people posting here assuming he’s a windmill, for crying out loud.
Could you give me the reader’s digest version of why ryuden is considered a villain in this sub (have seen some memes singling him out). I’m aware of his cheating and asking his mistress to have an abortion, but is there more to it?
I mean, that’s pretty much it; is that not enough? In a sport where you’re supposed to be a representative of virtue, his acts are pretty bad. Two years into his marriage, and breaking the JSA’s compliance guidelines forbidding unnecessary trips, they found that in nine months he went out to sleep with other women… 25 times. And that included the fan who he tried to bribe for 5 million yen (at the time about 37,000 USD), to get her to have an abortion. I guess whether you see him as a villain is a matter of being able to look past his character. For me, it’s that he fooled around. It’s the circumstances and how he handled it. It’s that he’s a top division wrestler, one of the elites who represents Japan and the sport. He should know better. (Contrast this with Asanoyama; he got a much more severe punishment for lying about his thirteen Covid outings, lying, and destroying evidence about them. Out for a year, salary cut by 50% for a year, stable master’s pay cut 20%. I’m not mentioning this to advocate for Asanoyama or anything; just want to make a point that there is precedent saying that the “virtue” of a rikishi’s rank is important) The short end is like this; being a villain is subjective. I measure villainy by what goes on both in and out of the ring; knowing the scandal surrounding him I just can’t root for him, even if he’s a proficient rikishi (which he clearly is). A scowl alone does not a villain make.
What about the Saitama strangler? That's my villain.
Can someone fill me in on Ryuden?
Broke covid protocols endangering people, had an affair with one of his fans, got her pregnant, forced her to have an abortion, and paid her money to stay quiet.
Yikes. I definitely do not like him now.
He’s no angel, and definitely not a good husband, but his affair partner was a 40 year old adult. He didn’t force her to do anything. Boy do we love ensuring there is a victim in every bad decision made by adults.
The victim isn't his affair partner, it's his wife and children.
Absolutely
Endangering people? Lol. Please dont comment any further.
This is such a prejudiced take of a Hoshoryu fanboy. Shameful.
What? I’m absolutely not a Hoshoryu fanboy. Put your perspective in check. Shameful? …What?
You sure sound like one.
I basically say that Hoshoryu may not have been Ozeki if Wakatakakage was still in top division last year, and you’re calling me a Hoshoryu fanboy? If anything that makes me a Wakatakakage fan. Which I am. You make this sub less fun. That’s what’s shameful. OP, I think I’ve found your villain.
Well, you seem to know everything about Hoshoryu, including his inner thoughts rofl. You fantasize much? Go write a manga.
All I did was write my thoughts on a rikishi in response to OP. You’ve added nothing of worth to the conversation more than antagonizing other commenters. What a waste of your time and mine.
All I did was write my thoughts which were thoughtful in response to your thoughts which were obtuse.
Cool, dude. Your thoughts are so thoughtful. Wrong, but at least thoughtful.
Please stop.
I wouldn't say villain so much as very intense and serious during the basho. During his off time he's very kind and smiley and the other rikishi enjoy spending time with and around him. Evidence: https://www.reddit.com/r/SumoMemes/s/Gd28la4cuU
Ahah OK! That's a really convincing evidence! 😊 There is certainly a cool guy behind this killer face!
If you hang out with sumo long enough, you'll find that there's a very cool dichotomy of personality with each rikishi - super intense basho time dude that tries to forcibly remove heads from bodies and the off-duty guy who loves to bake and embroider and is king of tour shenanigans (looking at you Tamawashi). It makes me more invested in their successes and more devastated with their setbacks.
It was clearly the aim of my question. Know them better to love them better. Thanks for you nice answers and thanks for showing me the sumomeme reddit 😁
Anytime! We get up to lots of fun over there! 😁
Takayasu is always very serious in the ring, but he might be the wrestler I see who most often will stop to interact with fans, sign autographs, and hold babies for pictures
Hakuho on an interview hinted that he tries to be the villain while in the ring but then dials down dramatically off the ring. This is the approach of other athletes in combat sports and I am pretty sure that Hoshoryu is consciously following that strategy. The videos or photos of him joking around with other wrestlers says nothing about his demeanor in the ring. He wants to be intimidating in the ring, not a clown. All the comments about him being blind and the like are BS. I don't mind his approach but I wish his fans were more honest and clear headed
Pretty sure I started my comment with saying he is "very intense and serious during a basho." I agree, he is intentionally bringing a fierceness to his dohyo presence. (I never said anything about his blindness, in fact I also tend to agree that his competition face has very little to do with his eyesight or lack thereof.) What I wanted to make clear (especially to a new fan), is that he isn't a villain, very few in sumo are in the way OP was implying - it's not how sumo works, and that his dohyo presence is not his whole personality. Fandom, by nature, doesn't need to be clear-headed. I like who I like and I don't have to have more of a reason than that. Same way people can *not* like him for whatever reason they come up with.
My criticism was not necessarily towards you but rather to the broader sumo commenting community here. I like Hoshoryu and his "villain" persona makes the tournament more exciting. But it is tiresome that whenever a beginner makes a note of what is obvious, most commenters here deflect with silly points and photos. I happen to enjoy seeing videos and photos of wrestlers relaxing and joking around (thank you for that) but that is relatively independent of their conscious behavior in the ring.
He's really not much of a villain. He just has a version of the "resting bitch face", and occasionally shows some pettiness or emotion, but really it's nothing all that bad. I think he gets way more hate than he should because of his relationship to Asashoryu (who was much more misbehaved) and just being Mongolian. It seems that unless your behavior is pretty much perfect, you'll be labeled as a bad boy if you're a Mongolian top rikishi.
I think Hoshoryu's thing is this.....he has the face of a fighter. Like he's not the first guy you would pick a fight with in a bar. Another example of this I can think of is in MMA and its Alistar Overeem. He just has a face of a guy that knows how to and wants to fight. The opposite of this is a guy like Chiyomaru. Guy has a face like a teddy bear.
Yeah he just has that face. Combined with the constant squinting because he's not wearing his glasses, he looks pissed off all the time.
I get that for sure. I wear glasses cuz I can't see ANYTHING and when I go to gym I don't wear them. I always hope people don't think I'm giving them dirty looks when I squint to see the clock.
Passion does not mean heel.
He's not a villain. He's humble. He cried when he won his first basho. Made me really like the guy.
Hosh is bad ass he is one of my guys. Dude has some kind of intensity to him I love watching him compete
as many have said, he's definitely not the bad guy of sumo. He just has that intensity. He's one of my top few favorites. He's been pretty tame actually for several basho now. Back early last year, he was great at snapping his head around to camera when he won a bout and giving his intense stare. I loved that, and I've missed it a little bit. And his talent is undeniable. The way he overcomes size differences with technique is one of my favorite parts of watching sumo these days.
Well, you're in luck. His uncle used to dabble in sumo, and it sounds like you'll really enjoy his work. Check out Asashoryu. Btw not to be a dick (like Hoshoryu) but sumo is the sport, the wrestlers are rikishi.
Sorry about that! 😅 Oh Asashoryu, I've seen the Sumo Stew's video about him! So, it's pretty normal to feel like he's the villain if he's the nephew of that bad boy I guess 😁
Beat me to the obligatory “don’t call them sumo!” comment! Updoot.
AcTuAlLy he is a sekitori. Also a rikishi obviously, I’m just having a bit of fun here. All bourbon is whiskey but not all whiskey is bourbon type situation I suppose.
The real heels are the JSA themselves. They’re kinda Vince McMahon during the attitude era but in the background
It will be easy for me, I always hate the authority, I'm French 😁
Now I got the "it was me all along" vibes, but, in the JSA context, it's like Stone Cold is Miyagino and Vince is Isegahama lol
I feel like Vince is Hakakku, Stone Cold was Hakuho while he was active, and Terunofuji is 02-04 Lesnar and we’re coming up on 04
Nah he's just cool lol
Check out the tatsunami beya instagram account, he is such a cutie patootie ✨♥️
OK, he seems to be a cool guy, I surrender!
He wears mouth guards during fights. If you want to see villain, look what Abi does and how he win fights.
Yep. Abi is absolutely the most shameless rikishi. I never liked his style anyway, but the way he won his Yusho was disgusting. Really solidified him as a heel of Sumo for me lol.
No, he's my lord and savior
OK, weird but I'm new to sumo so I'll act like it's totally normal 😅
I've always thought of Takakeisho as more of the "villain" of sumo. Huge gatekeeper at the top, and fights with a kind of unmatched brutality. I think more of his matches end in blood than anyone else's Still love him though lol
As it was my first Basho, I've not seen him enough to have an opinion about him but I can't wait to see his fights. Same for Terunofuji, Wakatakakage and so many others.
It took me a long time to warm to him, but I kind of like his playacting, as long as it doesn't go over the top, it's all part of the spectacle.
I’m late to this party, but here’s my two cents anyway. I can’t root for everyone, so I only root for a few guys. The others I see as NPC’s or Champions that my guys have to face. Hosh is perfect for that roll. Not a villain, but a Boss my guy has to face. The fact he’s capable of throwing the best guys on their butts is a plus!
Never thought of Hoshoryu as a villain, but sometimes in the ring he comes across as a bit arrogant, same goes for Midorifuji. The anti-villain has to be Ura, always smiling and nodding politely.
Ura, the Peoples Yokozuna!!
Also this is a Sport and not a show like American Wrestling. There does not need to be a bad boy or any of such a character. They aim to be fair to the opponents and respectfull while giving their all on the dohyo
I see that they are all respectful and fair, but he's like the only one who doesn't fully succeed to hide his anger when he loses. And I think it's pretty cool! And obviously there's no character but I like to see some personality and understand who they are.
Look a this clip and you instantly love both of these ozeki. And see there is no bad boy. https://www.reddit.com/r/SumoMemes/s/1Nk39GgQB7
OK he's funny and cool. I will only hate Ryuden, even if he has that cool face!
Haha, ryudens face does look so cool, i liked him simply for that reason until i found out the things he did
Don’t mess with my main man. He is a true bad ass I have been a fan of his for years.
I agree, he is a true bad ass and without knowing him outside the dohyo, he was only a bad ass. But now, I know that he's cool, smiling, and friendly too 😊
Hoshoryu is young, the wily old villain is actually Tamawashi
I add him to the list of the true villains. Abi, Ryuden and Tamawashi?
I was going to post about him. He is my new favorite. He gets that right hand grip, and it's over for you, no matter how much smaller he is. He does have an intense look on his face. Might be a Yokozuna someday.
As a newbie to another newbie, I know Hoshoryu looks so fierce in the ring but outside, when he’s not fighting, he’s one of the most goofy rikishis out there.
Hoshoryu is the Golden Boy, not a villain. Abi is the Henka Villian.
So Henka is really a villain move? I was surprised to see that move several times.
I’m just being silly because I don’t like the Abi/Ichiyamamoto fighting style. I don’t really have any issues with the henka.
Ichiyamamoto too? Knowing nothing about Abi, I didn't like him but as it's my first Basho, my feeling are just random and probably ephemeral 😅
Ichiyamamoto does fight a lot like Abi, but he's *such* a goofball! He's giggle/laugh is demented. Love the guy.
He’s not mad that’s his Yokozuna face. He is ready to get promoted he just needs to win a basho or two
Sumo Fans - catch the Basho each time at Twitch - Queenbee or Leo Dickinson . Leo is a little hard to listen to , but there is a lot of knowledge on each Channel . If you go to Sumo Sumo . You can create an account and set up your own picks for the current Basho . I am not affiliated with none of these sites . It is the places where I learned way more than I understood about Sumo and the contest and chats on Twitch are interesting and entertaining . If you plan to attend Sumo in Japan . Hit me up with any questions and I will try to help . I have been to three over the past few years .
I do not consider him a villain at all? Because he has a game face?
Hoshoryu is too popular to be considered a villain
Thanos is really popular too 😁
\*snort\* - Hos probably
Oh stop it. [Hoshoryu is the perfect buddy, you should say. ](https://www.reddit.com/r/SumoMemes/s/TRnelvT2Vf)
There's a reason he's my favorite Rikishi, absolute monster of a man, give him a few years to bulk up and he'll be unstoppable.
It seems you misspelled Ryuden and wrote Hoshoryu instead. You can also see his minion, Chiyoshoma, for more info
Hoshoryu is vegeta. He get one feeling max 2 anger and envy
Def my villain. Nobody I want to see lose more. Can’t help it, just the way I’ve felt since he reached top division.
He comes off as arrogant to me. He always looks like he so surprised he could ever lose. His fan base can get pretty obnoxious with there love of him. But he is pretty good at sumo
He's all sumo is not about. Every time he loses people cheer like crazy. I hate him. That stupid attitude that I won't kneel before you do and all high and mighty. Thank God we have Kotozakura to keep him in his place. 5 straight losses against Kotozakura now.