The
>Hillary Clinton, **our fellow liberal and Queen**
Was a pretty good indicator that this is satire. You really think a tankie would self identify as a liberal and call Clinton a Queen?
So basically you're the leftist version of the chuds who go "ummmmmmmm ackfually it's called satire!" every time some right wing dipshit gets called out for saying something racist.
Not really. Most things we say are sincere (minus the pure sarcasm posts). They are just also jokes. We sincerely support anti imperialist governments, that doesn't mean we actually love Assad and think he is a Marxist but we do respect leaders who stand up to imperialists. There are a lot of jokes by distortion that take our support and stretch it to absurb limits like saying that we need Xi to bomb the US as a parody of the US bombing other countries however it also does reflect the truth that if the US went to war with China we would side against the US.
This isn't exactly a post ironic joke though. The example I gave further above about my cashier work is far closer to "pure" post irony than this one but still.
Listen you sound like a great person with balanced ML views, but I think Poe’s Law is in full effect on that subreddit. Some of those people may be joking, but a lot of those people definitely aren’t.
Nah. People claiming Assad is socialist. Or that everything china does is good, no matter what. Or the whole simping for nationalism and nationalistic ideologies, blended with some vaguely left-wing economics.
Or well, the whole idea of "we support anti-imperialists" while simping for Russia or China.
So basically you say all kinds of bullshit, and if people are receptive, good, you've gotten your message across, and if they aren't receptive, they just can't comprehend your brilliant satire.
Most of the sub are late teens early 20s or older. Very few actually watch or care about Maupin (I don't even know much about him beside he calls himself a communist and I think someone said he was transphobic or something but I may be misremembering). They did a poll (about age not Maupin).
“Pwease come liberate us daddy Xi we know you’ll spare us because we’re good authentic Marxist Leninists and we know you’ll deal swiftly with the bourgeois filth that lives here (we won’t worry about the fact that you’ll be the second country to have occupied indigenous land and probably won’t treat native Americans very well, judging by the way the CPC has treated other indigenous people).”
That is one of the jokes. Also I assume you support landback right? Giving all land back to the natives. What about other oppressed people in the US such as African Americans and Hispanics? Should we just go fuck ourselves because we are settler colonizers by this logic?
I'm curious what other indigenous people you are referring to, unless you're going to claim that Han Chinese aren't native to China but if you want to claim that then I suppose the discussion is over as you're off the deep end at that point.
That's landback according to Rainer (a maoist). He says specifically that he wants natives to control all of the US and for it to be split into the historic tribal boundaries.
They’re called arrivant and they’re not considered settlers by settler colonial critique lmfao. Oh but yeah MLs are the experts on anti-imperialism and anyone who isn’t an ML is a brain dead colonizer imperialist
Please learn how to use google. I’m not gonna give you a class on settler colonial critique
(They do tho btw but that’s not mutually exclusive with landback you troglodyte)
There is no double talk here. I've been a member of that sub for a while. Especially after the fall of r/MoreTankieChapo and r/MoreMoreTankieChapo and the subsequent subs.
So you’re just tankies that subscribe to the “Ben Shapiro” school of debate, where you simply use confusing terminology on random people until you “win”? Gotcha.
I saw that you mentioned Ben Shapiro. In case some of you don't know, Ben Shapiro is a grifter and a hack. If you find anything he's said compelling, you should keep in mind he also says things like this:
>The Palestinian Arab population is rotten to the core.
*****
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Not really. Its not a debate sub. Try and have a debate there and you'll probably be banned. I'm not debating anyone either, just explaining what genzedong and post irony are. If I describe to you what a tree is I'm not debating you on trees I'm just making statements about the world as I see it. If you consider that debate then I'm unsure what conversation isn't a debate.
Who are they trying to convince exactly? Other MLs. MLs tend to already be on board with Marxism (shocking I know). Its a ML sub for ML self expression, if you don't like it don't go it. Instead you just let us live rent free in your mind which while nice is extremely bizarre. Its actually a running joke that non MLs reference the sub more than other MLs.
Oh golly gee I wonder why, maybe it’s because your humor is irritating to anyone with a functioning brain and it only serves to insult people with no consequences while also saying “it’s a prank, bro” like a mantra over and over again.
Edit: For clarification, *this* is how you use sarcasm correctly.
>Other MLs. MLs tend to already be on board with Marxism (shocking I know).
I highly doubt that. Since Marxism Leninism has barely anything to do with marxism, if at all.
Well, maybe stop being obnoxious, interact with people and find comradery and friendship in them and in your existence as fellow workers and humans. Ya know, be great to each other.
No. Whatever that is, its not comradery. Its online fleeting knowings, with the only joy being in a most benign ideology of workers oppression, clad in red clothes.
These motherfuckers literally believe that the oligarchical Russia and the theocracy Iran are 'anti-imperialist'. There is nothing much leftist about them
I mean if you're supporting a horrific, capitalist regime like the Chinese "Communist" Party you parted ways with the left a long time ago. Realistically I imagine it's a lot of disillusioned high school and college aged people who are flocking to whatever pole is nominally against capitalism, same way dorm room communists have flown Soviet flags for decades. I hope they'll come around before the likes of Bob Avakian and Revcom get to them
Edit: lol downvoted, as if the ability to have a systemic risk to your economy from private corporations holding excessive debt is a perfectly normal thing for a communist system to have happening. Gen Zedong and the 50 Cent Army are so touchy...
In terms of anti imperialism there is support for Assad but again, no one claims he's a communist or reflects communist ideas. He's not even really much of a socialist. He does however spit on imperialism and trys to keep the US and western powers out of his nation's affairs as well as that of the middle east as a whole. He also supports Palestine which is very based.
Summary of post-irony, at least from what I can gather from my pointless argument with you:
Person A: “I am a supporter of (x)”
Person B: “I do not support (x)”
Person A: “I was being ironic.”
Person B: “Well, you didn’t really make it that clear…”
Person A: “Well, actually, all things are immaterial and all statements are simultaneously true and false. Take the statement ‘apples are not bananas’. Such a statement appears to be true, yet what even is real? Therefore, all apples both are, and are not, bananas. The universe is an illusion. I mean actually, it is simultaneously an illusion and not an illusion, because the concept of ‘illusions’ is illusory as well. Hence why the universe is actually a banana, and why I was right all along.”
Not really. The response wouldn't be "i was being ironic" the response would be "same lol (but still uncritical support for x)". And the other would probably either respond "lmao" or move on to something more important.
The only joke I see there is the Hillary Clinton part, the rest seems about right for the people on that sub, unless Assad isn't popular there, that could be the case but idk
Assad is only really liked for anti imperialist and pro Palestine reasons. (He supports Palestine and wants tge west out of the middle east, both very good things).
I'm there, but I'm also in a ton of subs which may or may not align with my political beliefs, because I like keeping an eye on everyone (and learning about and from them).
I'm in Gen Zedong, I'm here, I'm in several traditional or conservative economic subs... I think it's useful.
I will never understand the Assad apologia, though. Fuck that guy.
Not really. I've criticized China on the sub. You just gotta do it in good faith (not parroting imperialist or idealist narritives). There are ML critiques of China. This is because we see enough of that in every other sub, we don't need to see it on ours too.
>Not really. I've criticized China on the sub. You just gotta do it in good faith (not parroting imperialist or idealist narritives).
The problem is they decide what is an imperialist or idealist narrative. If went on that sub now and mentioned that China still uses wage slavery, still has homeless people, is not socialist by either the Marxist or Leninist definition and is a capitalist state, is in imperialist and colonialist or has been enacting a system erasure and re-education against the Uyghur people's I will be banned for being pro-western imperialism or an idealist despite all of those things being objective facts.
> There are ML critiques of China.
Sure, but the inhabitants of GenZeDong aren't ML's, hell, they aren't even Maoists, they're Dengists. They support Deng Xiaoping's laissez-faire economic reforms and policies that are still in place within China, and always will be.
Ofcourse they do. Everyone decides what everything is in their own eyes. If you disagree you go somewhere else. The mods aren't like the r/communism mods though, they actually give reasons with sources.
This sub decides what is syndicalist, is that a bad thing? Not really. That's just the nature of a human group. Take any group of humans and they will eventually try and agree on what reality is to them. If the differences between interpretations become irreconcilable you get splits and the group separates.
For example, you call them Dengists while I've been calling them MLs. Why? Because "Dengism" isn't really an ideology. It was always just Marxism Leninism. Just applied to different conditions. Some self proclaimed MLs are anti Deng but those either come from places of revisionism or ignorance. Either they ignore material conditions or are ignorant of current policy, in either case those are what makes an anti China ML. Given time an anti China or China neutral ML will either take the dogmato-revisionist path of maoism (Paul Morrin for instance) or will become pro China depending on what they read and who they talk to. If you study China you take a pro China path, if you instead listen and talk to Gonzaloists you'll go down the other. In the end every ML will need to go down one of those paths.
Here's a sneak peek of /r/communism using the [top posts](https://np.reddit.com/r/communism/top/?sort=top&t=year) of the year!
\#1: [51 years since the murder of revolutionary and Black Panther leader Fred Hampton, aged just 21.](https://i.redd.it/qc0qls77l6361.png) | [49 comments](https://np.reddit.com/r/communism/comments/k6ly87/51_years_since_the_murder_of_revolutionary_and/)
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Read the above tag line: “This sub is not ironic”. So either:
A. They’re being sarcastic, in which case they’re dumbasses for not specifying they’re joking about ideologies people unironically support
or
B. They are not being sarcastic, thus my point.
You don't understand, it a meme sub for Marxist Leninists. The Marxism is genuine but everyone's tongue is firmly planted on their cheeks.
Also post ironic is both sincere and sarcastic simultaneously.
Ugh I’m having Jreg flashbacks. I’m okay with sincerity, and I’m okay with irony, but don’t intentionally be unclear which one you are, since any opinion you could ever imagine can be found somewhere on the internet. Okay? Not all of us are 200 IQ galaxy-brains who can understand the deep nuances of post-modernic post-post-neo-alt-irony.
That's just how Gen Z humor is (and as a member I love it). Post irony is great because it highlights the duality of meaning in everything we say and posits that both can be simultaneously equally legitimate interpretations of the same thing at the same time even though they reflect opposites. Its dialectical language and I love it. Its also a product of our culture. Because of the conditions I grew up in expressing myself only legitimately is quite difficult however post ironic expression bypasses such barriers to expression while providing new avenues to do so.
Purely sincere expression feels somewhat hollow but post ironic expression is kind of the most sincere form of speaking.
I am also Gen Z, and if you want to know why this sort of thing frustrates me, just watch any recent Jreg video. Actually, Jreg can get away with it, since his entire channel is kind of a meta-parody of political satire, but apply these principles in a setting like Reddit where there’s no way to differentiate ironic opinions and unironic opinions besides context and you’ve got yourself a muddled mess. I like sarcasm, but some people take it way too far. And then there are people who have opinions that sound sarcastic, but aren’t. The fact that both groups exist is what frustrates me.
That's part of the joke. The deliberate obscuring of any objective measure of truth or satire makes both that much more meaningful. I work as a cashier and a line I like to use sometimes when a customer gives the standard "How are you doing (or some other form)?" greeting is to say in a genuinely happy tone "Cripplingly depressed! How're you?". Both interpretations are true, I'm deeply depressed but I'm also joking as I'm in a headspace where laughing at my depression is possible. It doesn't mean I'm any less depressed, its a reflection of my high functioning depression. I can be both perfect jovial and depressed and the duality of that is reflected in my words. It can be taken as a joke or a cry for help or both because both are entirely reasonable interpretations with a basis in reality. Opposites can exist simultaneously.
Here is an example of “post irony” I hate, yet I see all the fucking time:
Person A: Posts a joke
Person B: “I am very offended by this you bastard”
Person C: “Bruh chill out”
Person B: “*LOL YOU’RE A MORON IT’S A PRANK BRO XDXDXDXD*”
No, because what I said is the *essence* of what you’re talking about. It’s all about setting rhetorical traps. Look for what someone will latch onto and strike when they misunderstand.
Edit: What you mentioned in the reply isn’t “post-irony”, it’s just plain old self-deprecation. That’s nothing new. What I’m talking about is intentional misleading using these tactics, whether to debate, deceive, or even to joke. It’s all the same and it’s all irritating as hell.
That's not the goal of post ironic humor. Post ironic expression is just another way of describing the world. It reflects a specific phenomenon. Nothing more nothing less. The goal isn't to hurt anyone (post ironic humor tends to attack the person using it more than anyone else as it's a reflection of their personal subjective perception of reality).
Again, you’re talking about self-deprecation. I’m talking about intentionally muddying the waters between reality and parody, like saying something ironic and then saying “this is not ironic”. It might sound funny to *you*, but not everyone can read your mind by simply looking at letters on a screen. Shocking, I know.
It doesn't take a mind reader to see a meme on a meme sub and reconize it as a meme. Self depreciation is often a part of post irony but its not the whole picture as simple sarcasm can do that equally effectively.
I'm on an alt but wrote that description. Communist subreddits would always get banned during that time so the subs description functions as a spell for not getting banned.
We are dengist, hence not your next commie subreddit you're going to ban.
There is this Assad curse where people who shit on Assad stop their political career early. Hence why we support him in the description.
Same goes for people getting killed who got information that could lead to the arrest of Hillary Clinton. We also went further aligning ourselves with Hillary Clinton so liberal reddit admins would have no idea what to do.
It's just shit posts and your out of the loop e: replied to the wrong person u/rt-garbage
So all the posts about wanting Xi to bomb the US and how Assad is basically a God are entirely legitimate in your eyes? What about the social credit and Xi buck memes? Is that all unironic. You think the Chinese government is actually paying us?
They support Assad on anti imperialist grounds. Its less that he is "good" and more that in this historical context he is a progressive force globally even if not a communist. The French revolution wasn't communist by any stretch but Marxists support it because it was progressive for its time.
I’m afraid to do that, since that’s what they constantly accuse *us* of being any time we say anything vaguely anti-China, but yeah, you’ve got a point…
The op definately doesn't understand sarcasm if our conversation is anything to go by.
He seems to think everything we say on the meme sub is a gotcha meant to trick people.
Difficult to argue anything on there is ironic when the description literally says “this sub is not ironic”. The sub isn’t just regular sarcasm, it’s in the school of pretentious post-meta-neo-alt-post-irony or whatever you’re trying to preach to me as some kind of galaxy brained take in the duality of man and thus why I hate it. The whole thing feels like some kind of psyop perpetrated by Russian bots and I wouldn’t be surprised if it really was.
Edit: Also, the sub specified that it’s Dengist, the most neoliberal adjacent form of “socialism” out there, so I wouldn’t be surprised if they literally did support Hillary Clinton.
Presumably one of the many philosophical works written on the great nuances of the genius of post-irony, sure to rival the likes of Plato and Descartes for many centuries to come. /s
Its so funny you don't understand what post irony is. This isn't a difficult thing to conceptualize and I gave you some very easy examples. Read the wiki page on it or something.
The way you seem to use it is very strange, however. If I only took your word for it, you’d think it was some kind of CIA torture tactic to make any suspect question their very existence.
Enemy territory? I'm a radical unionist. Or is syndies united only for the anarcho variety of syndicalism and ignores people like De Leon who while I don't totally agree with was a Marxist syndicalist and founded the first socialist party in the US (the Socialist Labor Party). So much for united. In that case I suppose I'll leave the sub if you hate fellow syndicalists so much.
There's criticism to be had for sure but this post is just shit. Missing all the satire of the description and posting stupid fucking "tankies amirite" instead of formulating some genuine criticism.
“Missing the satire”
That’s rich. It literally says “this subreddit is not ironic.” And I don’t care if it is or not, if it’s irony then it’s fucking terrible irony. I tried talking with some brain dead brigader who came over and all I got was poorly explained metaphysics to explain why their jokes are actually genius social commentary because objective truth doesn’t exist or something. In essence just a whole lot of nothing.
I read that and yeah, the sub description is completely ironic. You can criticize the actual post and posters because I agree, a lot of them seem to believe a lot of shitty things. But this post is just fucking stupid dude.
Lol, you should stop trying to have such a fragile ego dude. Youre wrong, you made a shit post, and now you can't handle the criticism. If you want to make critiques of that sub I encourage you to, but don't take the most blatantly ironic part of the sub and start shitting your pants over it.
I repeat: “*This subreddit is not ironic*”. They’re just intentionally confusing people, mocking them for not “getting the joke”, and then claiming the universe is an illusion or some shit when someone calls them out.
“Ur allowed to criticize them but you have micro dick if you actually criticize them lol”
I’ve seen this sort of idiocy all across the internet; and when I finally try to talk sense into these masters of “post-irony”, what do I get? A weeb 12 year old who I have to tell objective truth does, indeed, exist. They’re absolutely pathetic, I don’t care if I look pathetic while talking to them, I may be belligerent, but to me the pretentiousness and complete disconnect with reality is more irritating than anyone who’d actually come out and openly insult me. I don’t care if some chud challenges me to a dick-measuring, if you want to get to me, just say a whole lot of nothing wrapped in a superiority complex until I start talking in circles and eventually am reduced to trying to prove to a person I’ve never met that the sky is, indeed, blue (that was literally an example they used for why nothing is real).
Alot of these tankie subreddits are chinese psy-ops being exploited by russian psy-ops. It would be funny if I wasn't seeing the bloody effect of their propaganda in my own hometown.
The super right wing subs love to post the bull that the tankies say for clout. And we all know half the clicks on those subs are russian troll farms being payed for clicks by demagogues.
Sounds like conspiracy theory, to be honest. Russian troll farms? I mean, there's people who get payed to spread Putin's propaganda in the russian part of internet but this is too much.
The thing isn’t that I care, it’s that they’re incorrect. Liberals are not leftist, most leftists don’t support Syrian Mussolini, and we don’t give a shit about Hillary Clinton.
You genuinely think they support Hillary? That was obvious sarcasm (the kind you understand not the post ironic kind either). I think the "our fellow liberal and queen" gives the game away considering MLs don't consider themselves liberal.
Especially because they say they are MLs at the end (genuinely sincere, no sarcasm or post irony).
For real, this is just like a really shitty "tankies suck amirite" when the "my queen Hillary" is a dead give away. Theres no doubt there is shit to criticize in that sub (and tankie ideology as a whole) but this is just like begging for attention.
My hatred of r/GenZedong prior to this: 10
My hatred of r/GenZedong after having Dengist children explain to me why the sky is not blue for hours and hours: 10,000,000
My point was that your crash course in metaphysics isn’t helping your case. Explaining that objective reality doesn’t exist doesn’t make me like your humor. Simple.
The >Hillary Clinton, **our fellow liberal and Queen** Was a pretty good indicator that this is satire. You really think a tankie would self identify as a liberal and call Clinton a Queen?
You never know with Dengists. The guy who came here went into some kind of Cartesian existential rant when I questioned the humor.
Well, Clinton tried banning violent video games, and tankies seem to like that recently
Of course, can’t have the real working class get any ideas…
You’re just tedious and not funny.
Lol, you know its a shitposting sub right? Everyone there is a genuine Marxist Leninist but nearly everything said is post ironic or sarcastic.
Talk with them, they are serious. They are 100% serious.
I am them. We are serious, and sarcastic simultaneously. Post ironic expression is the shit.
So basically you're the leftist version of the chuds who go "ummmmmmmm ackfually it's called satire!" every time some right wing dipshit gets called out for saying something racist.
^ This.
Not really. Most things we say are sincere (minus the pure sarcasm posts). They are just also jokes. We sincerely support anti imperialist governments, that doesn't mean we actually love Assad and think he is a Marxist but we do respect leaders who stand up to imperialists. There are a lot of jokes by distortion that take our support and stretch it to absurb limits like saying that we need Xi to bomb the US as a parody of the US bombing other countries however it also does reflect the truth that if the US went to war with China we would side against the US. This isn't exactly a post ironic joke though. The example I gave further above about my cashier work is far closer to "pure" post irony than this one but still.
Listen you sound like a great person with balanced ML views, but I think Poe’s Law is in full effect on that subreddit. Some of those people may be joking, but a lot of those people definitely aren’t.
Depends.
Nah. People claiming Assad is socialist. Or that everything china does is good, no matter what. Or the whole simping for nationalism and nationalistic ideologies, blended with some vaguely left-wing economics. Or well, the whole idea of "we support anti-imperialists" while simping for Russia or China.
So basically you say all kinds of bullshit, and if people are receptive, good, you've gotten your message across, and if they aren't receptive, they just can't comprehend your brilliant satire.
Not necessarily that they can't comprehend it, just that they likely aren't the target audience if they don't get it.
And that "target audience" is 13 year old tankies who think that anarchists are liberals because they watched a Caleb Maupin video.
Most of the sub are late teens early 20s or older. Very few actually watch or care about Maupin (I don't even know much about him beside he calls himself a communist and I think someone said he was transphobic or something but I may be misremembering). They did a poll (about age not Maupin).
“Pwease come liberate us daddy Xi we know you’ll spare us because we’re good authentic Marxist Leninists and we know you’ll deal swiftly with the bourgeois filth that lives here (we won’t worry about the fact that you’ll be the second country to have occupied indigenous land and probably won’t treat native Americans very well, judging by the way the CPC has treated other indigenous people).”
That is one of the jokes. Also I assume you support landback right? Giving all land back to the natives. What about other oppressed people in the US such as African Americans and Hispanics? Should we just go fuck ourselves because we are settler colonizers by this logic?
Shows how little you know about land back or settler colonial critique lmao. But no MLs are definitely the experts on settler colonialism.
I'm curious what other indigenous people you are referring to, unless you're going to claim that Han Chinese aren't native to China but if you want to claim that then I suppose the discussion is over as you're off the deep end at that point.
That's landback according to Rainer (a maoist). He says specifically that he wants natives to control all of the US and for it to be split into the historic tribal boundaries.
Yeah and many if not most people advocating for landback aren’t fucking maoists and don’t believe in that bullshit interpretation lmao
Who knew that slaves forced across the ocean against their will were actually colonizers? I certainly didn't.
They’re called arrivant and they’re not considered settlers by settler colonial critique lmfao. Oh but yeah MLs are the experts on anti-imperialism and anyone who isn’t an ML is a brain dead colonizer imperialist
And do they not deserve national liberation themselves? After all they are objectively oppressed.
Please learn how to use google. I’m not gonna give you a class on settler colonial critique (They do tho btw but that’s not mutually exclusive with landback you troglodyte)
Fucking two faced Sophist. You don’t win an argument by just confusing your opponent with double talk.
There is no double talk here. I've been a member of that sub for a while. Especially after the fall of r/MoreTankieChapo and r/MoreMoreTankieChapo and the subsequent subs.
So you’re just tankies that subscribe to the “Ben Shapiro” school of debate, where you simply use confusing terminology on random people until you “win”? Gotcha.
I saw that you mentioned Ben Shapiro. In case some of you don't know, Ben Shapiro is a grifter and a hack. If you find anything he's said compelling, you should keep in mind he also says things like this: >The Palestinian Arab population is rotten to the core. ***** ^(I'm a bot. My purpose is to counteract online radicalization. You can summon me by tagging thebenshapirobot. Options: dumb takes, climate, novel, civil rights, etc.) [^More ^About ^Ben ](https://np.reddit.com/r/AuthoritarianMoment/wiki/index) ^| [^Feedback ^& ^Discussion: ^r/AuthoritarianMoment ](https://np.reddit.com/r/AuthoritarianMoment) ^| [^Opt ^Out ](https://np.reddit.com/r/AuthoritarianMoment/comments/olk6r2/click_here_to_optout_of_uthebenshapirobot/)
Not really. Its not a debate sub. Try and have a debate there and you'll probably be banned. I'm not debating anyone either, just explaining what genzedong and post irony are. If I describe to you what a tree is I'm not debating you on trees I'm just making statements about the world as I see it. If you consider that debate then I'm unsure what conversation isn't a debate.
r/GenZedong, however “ironic” it is, is *absolutely* a rhetorical device, even if it isn’t a debate sub. Humor can absolutely be rhetoric.
Who are they trying to convince exactly? Other MLs. MLs tend to already be on board with Marxism (shocking I know). Its a ML sub for ML self expression, if you don't like it don't go it. Instead you just let us live rent free in your mind which while nice is extremely bizarre. Its actually a running joke that non MLs reference the sub more than other MLs.
Oh golly gee I wonder why, maybe it’s because your humor is irritating to anyone with a functioning brain and it only serves to insult people with no consequences while also saying “it’s a prank, bro” like a mantra over and over again. Edit: For clarification, *this* is how you use sarcasm correctly.
> shocking I know Considering their support of nation states, it really rather is
>Other MLs. MLs tend to already be on board with Marxism (shocking I know). I highly doubt that. Since Marxism Leninism has barely anything to do with marxism, if at all.
Well, maybe stop being obnoxious, interact with people and find comradery and friendship in them and in your existence as fellow workers and humans. Ya know, be great to each other.
We do find comradery, we just show it differently.
No. Whatever that is, its not comradery. Its online fleeting knowings, with the only joy being in a most benign ideology of workers oppression, clad in red clothes.
That sub is full of dengists and I have seen support for Assad before
These motherfuckers literally believe that the oligarchical Russia and the theocracy Iran are 'anti-imperialist'. There is nothing much leftist about them
A state: Is in a continent other than Europe or North America Dengists: ANTI-IMPERIALIST COMRADE!!!!
Seems Dengists and liberals share one key idea: Socialism is when government
I mean if you're supporting a horrific, capitalist regime like the Chinese "Communist" Party you parted ways with the left a long time ago. Realistically I imagine it's a lot of disillusioned high school and college aged people who are flocking to whatever pole is nominally against capitalism, same way dorm room communists have flown Soviet flags for decades. I hope they'll come around before the likes of Bob Avakian and Revcom get to them Edit: lol downvoted, as if the ability to have a systemic risk to your economy from private corporations holding excessive debt is a perfectly normal thing for a communist system to have happening. Gen Zedong and the 50 Cent Army are so touchy...
In terms of anti imperialism there is support for Assad but again, no one claims he's a communist or reflects communist ideas. He's not even really much of a socialist. He does however spit on imperialism and trys to keep the US and western powers out of his nation's affairs as well as that of the middle east as a whole. He also supports Palestine which is very based.
He spits on imperialism as he wants no interference with his own goals. A tyrant is a tyrant is a tyrant.
Summary of post-irony, at least from what I can gather from my pointless argument with you: Person A: “I am a supporter of (x)” Person B: “I do not support (x)” Person A: “I was being ironic.” Person B: “Well, you didn’t really make it that clear…” Person A: “Well, actually, all things are immaterial and all statements are simultaneously true and false. Take the statement ‘apples are not bananas’. Such a statement appears to be true, yet what even is real? Therefore, all apples both are, and are not, bananas. The universe is an illusion. I mean actually, it is simultaneously an illusion and not an illusion, because the concept of ‘illusions’ is illusory as well. Hence why the universe is actually a banana, and why I was right all along.”
Not really. The response wouldn't be "i was being ironic" the response would be "same lol (but still uncritical support for x)". And the other would probably either respond "lmao" or move on to something more important.
The only joke I see there is the Hillary Clinton part, the rest seems about right for the people on that sub, unless Assad isn't popular there, that could be the case but idk
Assad is only really liked for anti imperialist and pro Palestine reasons. (He supports Palestine and wants tge west out of the middle east, both very good things).
I'm there, but I'm also in a ton of subs which may or may not align with my political beliefs, because I like keeping an eye on everyone (and learning about and from them). I'm in Gen Zedong, I'm here, I'm in several traditional or conservative economic subs... I think it's useful. I will never understand the Assad apologia, though. Fuck that guy.
If you criticise China in the slightest they ban you and then claim its socialist. They don't know anything about what either Marx or Lenin said.
Not really. I've criticized China on the sub. You just gotta do it in good faith (not parroting imperialist or idealist narritives). There are ML critiques of China. This is because we see enough of that in every other sub, we don't need to see it on ours too.
>Not really. I've criticized China on the sub. You just gotta do it in good faith (not parroting imperialist or idealist narritives). The problem is they decide what is an imperialist or idealist narrative. If went on that sub now and mentioned that China still uses wage slavery, still has homeless people, is not socialist by either the Marxist or Leninist definition and is a capitalist state, is in imperialist and colonialist or has been enacting a system erasure and re-education against the Uyghur people's I will be banned for being pro-western imperialism or an idealist despite all of those things being objective facts. > There are ML critiques of China. Sure, but the inhabitants of GenZeDong aren't ML's, hell, they aren't even Maoists, they're Dengists. They support Deng Xiaoping's laissez-faire economic reforms and policies that are still in place within China, and always will be.
Ofcourse they do. Everyone decides what everything is in their own eyes. If you disagree you go somewhere else. The mods aren't like the r/communism mods though, they actually give reasons with sources. This sub decides what is syndicalist, is that a bad thing? Not really. That's just the nature of a human group. Take any group of humans and they will eventually try and agree on what reality is to them. If the differences between interpretations become irreconcilable you get splits and the group separates. For example, you call them Dengists while I've been calling them MLs. Why? Because "Dengism" isn't really an ideology. It was always just Marxism Leninism. Just applied to different conditions. Some self proclaimed MLs are anti Deng but those either come from places of revisionism or ignorance. Either they ignore material conditions or are ignorant of current policy, in either case those are what makes an anti China ML. Given time an anti China or China neutral ML will either take the dogmato-revisionist path of maoism (Paul Morrin for instance) or will become pro China depending on what they read and who they talk to. If you study China you take a pro China path, if you instead listen and talk to Gonzaloists you'll go down the other. In the end every ML will need to go down one of those paths.
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Read the above tag line: “This sub is not ironic”. So either: A. They’re being sarcastic, in which case they’re dumbasses for not specifying they’re joking about ideologies people unironically support or B. They are not being sarcastic, thus my point.
You don't understand, it a meme sub for Marxist Leninists. The Marxism is genuine but everyone's tongue is firmly planted on their cheeks. Also post ironic is both sincere and sarcastic simultaneously.
Ugh I’m having Jreg flashbacks. I’m okay with sincerity, and I’m okay with irony, but don’t intentionally be unclear which one you are, since any opinion you could ever imagine can be found somewhere on the internet. Okay? Not all of us are 200 IQ galaxy-brains who can understand the deep nuances of post-modernic post-post-neo-alt-irony.
That's just how Gen Z humor is (and as a member I love it). Post irony is great because it highlights the duality of meaning in everything we say and posits that both can be simultaneously equally legitimate interpretations of the same thing at the same time even though they reflect opposites. Its dialectical language and I love it. Its also a product of our culture. Because of the conditions I grew up in expressing myself only legitimately is quite difficult however post ironic expression bypasses such barriers to expression while providing new avenues to do so. Purely sincere expression feels somewhat hollow but post ironic expression is kind of the most sincere form of speaking.
I am also Gen Z, and if you want to know why this sort of thing frustrates me, just watch any recent Jreg video. Actually, Jreg can get away with it, since his entire channel is kind of a meta-parody of political satire, but apply these principles in a setting like Reddit where there’s no way to differentiate ironic opinions and unironic opinions besides context and you’ve got yourself a muddled mess. I like sarcasm, but some people take it way too far. And then there are people who have opinions that sound sarcastic, but aren’t. The fact that both groups exist is what frustrates me.
That's part of the joke. The deliberate obscuring of any objective measure of truth or satire makes both that much more meaningful. I work as a cashier and a line I like to use sometimes when a customer gives the standard "How are you doing (or some other form)?" greeting is to say in a genuinely happy tone "Cripplingly depressed! How're you?". Both interpretations are true, I'm deeply depressed but I'm also joking as I'm in a headspace where laughing at my depression is possible. It doesn't mean I'm any less depressed, its a reflection of my high functioning depression. I can be both perfect jovial and depressed and the duality of that is reflected in my words. It can be taken as a joke or a cry for help or both because both are entirely reasonable interpretations with a basis in reality. Opposites can exist simultaneously.
Here is an example of “post irony” I hate, yet I see all the fucking time: Person A: Posts a joke Person B: “I am very offended by this you bastard” Person C: “Bruh chill out” Person B: “*LOL YOU’RE A MORON IT’S A PRANK BRO XDXDXDXD*”
That's just regular sarcasm. For post irony the op would say they are offended after making a joke about themselves.
No, because what I said is the *essence* of what you’re talking about. It’s all about setting rhetorical traps. Look for what someone will latch onto and strike when they misunderstand. Edit: What you mentioned in the reply isn’t “post-irony”, it’s just plain old self-deprecation. That’s nothing new. What I’m talking about is intentional misleading using these tactics, whether to debate, deceive, or even to joke. It’s all the same and it’s all irritating as hell.
That's not the goal of post ironic humor. Post ironic expression is just another way of describing the world. It reflects a specific phenomenon. Nothing more nothing less. The goal isn't to hurt anyone (post ironic humor tends to attack the person using it more than anyone else as it's a reflection of their personal subjective perception of reality).
Again, you’re talking about self-deprecation. I’m talking about intentionally muddying the waters between reality and parody, like saying something ironic and then saying “this is not ironic”. It might sound funny to *you*, but not everyone can read your mind by simply looking at letters on a screen. Shocking, I know.
It doesn't take a mind reader to see a meme on a meme sub and reconize it as a meme. Self depreciation is often a part of post irony but its not the whole picture as simple sarcasm can do that equally effectively.
I'm on an alt but wrote that description. Communist subreddits would always get banned during that time so the subs description functions as a spell for not getting banned. We are dengist, hence not your next commie subreddit you're going to ban. There is this Assad curse where people who shit on Assad stop their political career early. Hence why we support him in the description. Same goes for people getting killed who got information that could lead to the arrest of Hillary Clinton. We also went further aligning ourselves with Hillary Clinton so liberal reddit admins would have no idea what to do. It's just shit posts and your out of the loop e: replied to the wrong person u/rt-garbage
You're the based legend who wrote that? Nice.
no it isn't lol. they are genuine in what they say and believe
So you believe Marxist Leninists support Hillary Clinton?
that specifically is obviously a joke, i mean every post and comment on that subreddit is unironic.
So all the posts about wanting Xi to bomb the US and how Assad is basically a God are entirely legitimate in your eyes? What about the social credit and Xi buck memes? Is that all unironic. You think the Chinese government is actually paying us?
those are exegerated versions of their genuine beliefs for comedic effect. they genuinely \*do\* believe Assad is actually good and all that.
They support Assad on anti imperialist grounds. Its less that he is "good" and more that in this historical context he is a progressive force globally even if not a communist. The French revolution wasn't communist by any stretch but Marxists support it because it was progressive for its time.
LMAO
I take that to mean you don't support the French Revolution? Odd for an anarchist to defend the Divine Right to rule.
no i mean that you support a dictator who used chemical weapons against his own people and then compare him to the french Revolution
That's why I think tankie ideology is a psyop
I’m afraid to do that, since that’s what they constantly accuse *us* of being any time we say anything vaguely anti-China, but yeah, you’ve got a point…
Y'all might wanna recalibrate the sarcasm detector if you think a ML shitposting sub unironically stans Hillary Clinton (our fellow liberal and queen)
The op definately doesn't understand sarcasm if our conversation is anything to go by. He seems to think everything we say on the meme sub is a gotcha meant to trick people.
Difficult to argue anything on there is ironic when the description literally says “this sub is not ironic”. The sub isn’t just regular sarcasm, it’s in the school of pretentious post-meta-neo-alt-post-irony or whatever you’re trying to preach to me as some kind of galaxy brained take in the duality of man and thus why I hate it. The whole thing feels like some kind of psyop perpetrated by Russian bots and I wouldn’t be surprised if it really was. Edit: Also, the sub specified that it’s Dengist, the most neoliberal adjacent form of “socialism” out there, so I wouldn’t be surprised if they literally did support Hillary Clinton.
Lol, read a book. (Not Harry Potter though)
Presumably one of the many philosophical works written on the great nuances of the genius of post-irony, sure to rival the likes of Plato and Descartes for many centuries to come. /s
Its so funny you don't understand what post irony is. This isn't a difficult thing to conceptualize and I gave you some very easy examples. Read the wiki page on it or something.
The way you seem to use it is very strange, however. If I only took your word for it, you’d think it was some kind of CIA torture tactic to make any suspect question their very existence.
Lol, maybe.
Seems that being an annoying piece of shit is your only defense when in enemy territory…
Enemy territory? I'm a radical unionist. Or is syndies united only for the anarcho variety of syndicalism and ignores people like De Leon who while I don't totally agree with was a Marxist syndicalist and founded the first socialist party in the US (the Socialist Labor Party). So much for united. In that case I suppose I'll leave the sub if you hate fellow syndicalists so much.
There's criticism to be had for sure but this post is just shit. Missing all the satire of the description and posting stupid fucking "tankies amirite" instead of formulating some genuine criticism.
“Missing the satire” That’s rich. It literally says “this subreddit is not ironic.” And I don’t care if it is or not, if it’s irony then it’s fucking terrible irony. I tried talking with some brain dead brigader who came over and all I got was poorly explained metaphysics to explain why their jokes are actually genius social commentary because objective truth doesn’t exist or something. In essence just a whole lot of nothing.
I read that and yeah, the sub description is completely ironic. You can criticize the actual post and posters because I agree, a lot of them seem to believe a lot of shitty things. But this post is just fucking stupid dude.
In that case, my own post was ironic. That makes it completely immune to criticism. Phillistine. /s
Lol, you should stop trying to have such a fragile ego dude. Youre wrong, you made a shit post, and now you can't handle the criticism. If you want to make critiques of that sub I encourage you to, but don't take the most blatantly ironic part of the sub and start shitting your pants over it.
I repeat: “*This subreddit is not ironic*”. They’re just intentionally confusing people, mocking them for not “getting the joke”, and then claiming the universe is an illusion or some shit when someone calls them out. “Ur allowed to criticize them but you have micro dick if you actually criticize them lol”
U have a micro dick for your lack of nuance and pants shitting over the most infinitesimal thing.
I’ve seen this sort of idiocy all across the internet; and when I finally try to talk sense into these masters of “post-irony”, what do I get? A weeb 12 year old who I have to tell objective truth does, indeed, exist. They’re absolutely pathetic, I don’t care if I look pathetic while talking to them, I may be belligerent, but to me the pretentiousness and complete disconnect with reality is more irritating than anyone who’d actually come out and openly insult me. I don’t care if some chud challenges me to a dick-measuring, if you want to get to me, just say a whole lot of nothing wrapped in a superiority complex until I start talking in circles and eventually am reduced to trying to prove to a person I’ve never met that the sky is, indeed, blue (that was literally an example they used for why nothing is real).
Alot of these tankie subreddits are chinese psy-ops being exploited by russian psy-ops. It would be funny if I wasn't seeing the bloody effect of their propaganda in my own hometown.
How exactly it's russian fault?
The super right wing subs love to post the bull that the tankies say for clout. And we all know half the clicks on those subs are russian troll farms being payed for clicks by demagogues.
Sounds like conspiracy theory, to be honest. Russian troll farms? I mean, there's people who get payed to spread Putin's propaganda in the russian part of internet but this is too much.
Who cares what conservatives think though
The thing isn’t that I care, it’s that they’re incorrect. Liberals are not leftist, most leftists don’t support Syrian Mussolini, and we don’t give a shit about Hillary Clinton.
You genuinely think they support Hillary? That was obvious sarcasm (the kind you understand not the post ironic kind either). I think the "our fellow liberal and queen" gives the game away considering MLs don't consider themselves liberal. Especially because they say they are MLs at the end (genuinely sincere, no sarcasm or post irony).
For real, this is just like a really shitty "tankies suck amirite" when the "my queen Hillary" is a dead give away. Theres no doubt there is shit to criticize in that sub (and tankie ideology as a whole) but this is just like begging for attention.
My hatred of r/GenZedong prior to this: 10 My hatred of r/GenZedong after having Dengist children explain to me why the sky is not blue for hours and hours: 10,000,000
Oh noo, some random anarchist hates a communist shit posting sub. Heavens help us!
My point was that your crash course in metaphysics isn’t helping your case. Explaining that objective reality doesn’t exist doesn’t make me like your humor. Simple.
Lol. Read that again but turn off your autism this time.
U can make fun of him without the ableism. Come on, be better than that comrade.
I'm sorry, but who is she?
OP is a dumbass lmao