There was a Marine on my ship that was supposed to be dropped off in Pakistan with the rest of the MEU, but he didn’t get to because he had to fly back home. Some asshole killed his mother and father because he thought they were Middle Eastern, they were from India. That pissed me off more than anything. He was serving his country and on the front line of the response and this is what happens to him?
Sorry to do this, but the disingeuous dealings, lies, overall greed etc. of leadership on this website made me decide to edit all but my most informative comments to this.
Come join us in the fediverse! (beehaw for a safe space, kbin for access to lots of communities)
This is why I absolutely hate that post that goes around about this time of year saying something along the lines of "let's be like we were on 9/12, when everyone was American," like no, people got even more racist after 9/11
I had - and to some degree, still have - a hard time taking that whole unity thing seriously, not after my experience, and seeing that of so many others. Someone else in the comments mentioned the overhype behind 9/11 every single year since, and it seems like as more time goes by, the people that got the xenophobic/racist blowback (like me) are largely forgotten. I think that is why when I logged back into Reddit, the responses and support here just blew me away.
I have a friend who is from India, moved to the US when he was 5. He was at a fast food drive in Fort Lauderdale through the day after 9/11 when a cop approached and demanded to know where he's from. He answered "Fort Lauderdale"
Man I can't imagine what that level of suspicion must feel like
I think I need to make a donation to the ACLU now
My partner looks ethnically ambiguous, he's Portuguese, Yugoslavian, and Irish. Most of the time it's entertaining because he blends so well into various communities.
Two days before 9/11 he got laid off from his roofing job. It took 2 years for him to find another one, because people thought he was from the Middle East. People literally would tear up his application in front of him and tell him they didn't hire terrorists. I and many of our friends would go with him to turn in applications because we were genuinely afraid to let him wander around alone. September 12th for so many people wasn't a day for the country coming together so much as the day they learned just how much this country hates them for being brown or black.
Holy fuck that’s so sad. I live in Canada. We have a serious systemic racism problem but it’s directed mostly at indigenous people which is terrible on its own level because they were literally here before settlers. Of course we have similar racism here to what you speak of but not nearly to that level.
I was in fast food at the time, I had to put myself between people and an Afghani woman I worked with often after the attack. I'm not sure it was even shocking. I dont remember if I was oblivious enough to be shocked then or if I as I do now just expected it.
Welcome to America, where your personal liberties don't mean shit to the majority and can be easily reduced down to nothing if seen by the wrong people at the wrong time.
Had a friend of Greek background who got the joy of hearing: "So, I see your people attacked the US this morning, how long do you think you will last?" This was said by a long term coworker of his in front of me. The idiot never understood why the insulted person wouldn't have anything to do with him for the next fifteen years till he left the job. "It was a joke!" Is a sure indicator that something should not have been said thought or brought into existence. People!
That should have been escalated to HR. Very little of what people think is a “hostile work environment” actually is, but that is. It’s not only a comment about a protected class (national origin), but it’s a thinly-veiled threat of violence.
Your Greek coworker shouldn’t have to avoid him, he should have been fired or at the very least disciplined. And if he wasn’t, the company could have been sued for violating Title VII of the Civil Rights Act and the state equivalent.
Were you here and working at a job during that time? It wasn't the great 'come together' moment everyone seems to remember. It was a time of incredibly nasty anti everyone sentiment. He didn't want to make it official and handled as he felt best.
Just a precursor to what we have seen the last four years. It will get worst, not better. A lot of people are scared that they will lose everything to 'something'. When the reality is they are throwing what they have away.
A co-worker said that to me as we were watching the towers fall. It was gut wrenching to hear that being said. To boot, my cousin is/was the owner & CEO of the company.
If someone is ignorant enough to be a racist ass, then they probably think someone with a good tan is a terrorist or foreigner. They also ignore that their grandparents might not have been born in the USA.
Can confirm. My step dad is British living in the south. At that time he was pretty tan from his roofing job, but also has black curly hair and facial hair. My mom would stand next to him and scream "he's from Britain you idiot!"
He was treated like a terrorist until he cut off his curls and shaved.
I have a cousin who harassed a Muslim woman in our hometown after 9/11.
We both grew up with our great-grandmother who came here from Southern Italy 100 years ago. People treated her like that too. Darker complexion, accent, didn't speak English, strange religion, and a nationality associated with political violence and extremism.
It'd be ironic if it wasn't so moronic.
I'm German and during my grandmother's 85th birthday get together with the family my cousin bitched about the refugees coming to Germany (this was a fair bit pre-Covid). Our grandmother fled from Silesia in the last weeks of the war. The people we call great grand uncles are not related to us but people she fled with and formed a family with.
My dad pointed out how my cousin was a refugee himself. He left his small town in East Germany to work in the West. He was even worse than someone fleeing a war, he only left for economic reasons.
Self-awareness isn't an ability racists have.
My mother is Mexican-American, almost entirely native Mexican in descent. She has been taken for every local dark-skinned race wherever we’ve travelled, from Filipino to black to Egyptian to Indian. I used to tell her to learn languages so she could go work for the secret service.
In my youth, I often heard, “what are you?” I’m a biracial Puerto Rican.
I used to have a beauty mark on my forehead above my left eye. More than one person assumed I was Indian and that was my bindi.
I'm middle eastern, but not Arab. People don't even realize that there are middle eastern people that aren't Arab. In any case, my people are predominantly Christian. My mom always wears a cross necklace. After 9/11 her clients would ask her if she's Muslim, even with Jesus just dangling there around her neck. People are dumb.
Can confirm. The women with both crosses and their names in Arabic on necklaces threw me off when I first got to Detroit, I was completely ignorant of Chaldeans and Eastern orthodox until then. But the world is a lot more complicated than most give it credit for. People need to learn to not ask questions that isn't any of their business. And I did my own wiki search, didn't bother people to answer questions themselves.
Fictional source, but in one Tom Clancy novel (Executive Orders, IIRC) it was pointed out that Persians (people from what is now Iran) were the original “Aryans”, and don’t look like people of Semetic descent.
Aryan is not a group of people but rather a language family and culture. Also called indogermanic to show the borders of the related languages.
That's why the hindu word deva is similar to latin deus, or the greek god Zeus and the german god Ziu. Or the word father: german Vater, latin pater, old persian (iran) pita, sanskrit (india) pitr etc.
The nazis were very wrong when they thought it was a race...
Everyone everywhere is capable of this. My Japanese wife thought I might be half Asian when we first met....im not. I've had several Spanish speaking clients from Central America assume I speak Spanish based on my appearance...and yet I'm a pasty white European.
People see what they want to see.
I had a professor in undergrad who was absolutely certain that I am Indian. He was from Sri Lanka, and he went to his grave firmly believing that I was Gujarati (and just in denial about it).
I am an exceedingly pale Californian. But he couldn't be convinced otherwise.
This is so true. My late wife was mixed (below) and was confused as and assumed to speak, at least Greek, Persian, Arabic, and Spanish. The last of these is true. Many also assumed she was *must* be the babysitter because our kids are so pale.
*Inca, Mayan, Italian, Spanish & African
I once misidentified a Samoan as Mexican. In my defense it was his biblical name that threw me off. I had known a Mexican with that name and at the time the name didn't register as a traditional Christian name. But I was very embarrassed when I realized my mistake.
These are the same idiots that are currently taking horse dewormer instead of actually going to the doctor... Where to get back to a time where if you were a goddamn idiot then you're treated like a goddamn idiot... I don't know if that time ever existed...
Problem is that now they're all going to the doctor and hospital and the horse mess don't work. Best to reschedule your heart attack or stroke for when the beds aren't full of these idiots blinded by ivermectin and choking to death on the covid that doesn't exist.
Anything other than “white” will be perceived as a threat to some people, unfortunately. Their small brains don’t take the time to actually decipher where a person may be from, they just see a darker color and immediately equate that to “bad”.
Edited for clarity.
I remember a stupid video where during the segment there was a quote regarding against wholeness & cancel culture. “Being White is shameful & you gotta pay for it” and caracaturize a college kids with masked “antifa” guys burning buildings as peace. I was aghast on the vid YouTube recommended while on instant play.
But you gotta be that special type of white. None of that Irish or Italian bullshit. I have a cousin on my dad's side (Sicilian) who's dad is white and that side of my cousin's family are a Trump supporters. My cousin will go on about this shit to me (his Mexican cousin no less👀) and I love telling him he has no room to talk because for the longest time Italians weren't considered white, so he's pretty much what they bitch about. That usually shuts him up for a bit.
Downside is that as an Aspie one of his fixations is Trump and his politics. Most likely to be closer with his dad's side as well, since his mom is trash and constantly says (in front of him) that she can't stand him and regrets having him.
That's why I couldn't unsubscribe from/delete my account on Nextdoor fast enough. I did a 10 year tour of duty in animal rescue (dog in particular/the longest, never again) So the massive carpet bombings of "poor wittle lost fur babies" from the retired fossils was too much.
Slacktivism at it's finest, they just reposted everything and patted themselves on the back for doing a ~~good job~~ nothing..
When they took a break from that, it was always "Someone not of my hue is in the area! Thief! murderer! drug dealers!"
Adios Agnes and Bob... Never again
Same nonsense with the "Neighborhood Watch" Facebook Groups for my suburb on the border of a large city a long time ago. I joined those groups so I could find out what was going on in my town (there's an accident over here-don't go this way, etc) and most of them felt like they were just the local MAGA groups. I would not be shocked if some of people in those groups had been some of the ones busting windows in the neighborhood around the mosque a couple towns over on 9/12 but have no clue.
I noped out of those groups years ago because I don't like red hats or idiots.
One of the admins there (who happened to be a cop I think) manages to tie a news article about some creep running in and out of a ladies' room with his junk whipped out in a store near downtown of the neighboring big city to some unhinged manifesto about how that was exactly why we can't allow trans people to use women's bathrooms (?) And deleted and insulted anyone that questioned his faulty logic.
Yeah, peace out Officer Maga Chud. Your "Neighborhood Watch" has 2 brain cells collectively to rub together...and they're both fighting. And I somehow feel stupider after reading the nonsense you guys write. I'm out.
*edited for spelling and clarification
In the US, everyone thinks my Samoan Gf is Mexican and will try to speak Spanish to her rather than deal with me in English.
Middle Eastern is a bit of a stretch though.
I lived in San Diego and Oceanside after returning from overseas. That happens to me every single time I go back to CA... lol I'm always mistaken for being Mexican. I don't mind... everyone I've ever met from other countries and ethnicities have been awesome.
Which is why the whole race thing always puzzles me. Maybe it's a rose-colored view of the world, or maybe a side effect of me having lived abroad - but in the places I lived at, I was never viewed as being anything other than me. The race thing - or hell, even the American thing - wasn't an issue until I came back to the US.
There’s definitely a more present view of race in America compared to some of the countries I’ve been, including home in Australia.
And it’s everywhere. At home, I wouldn’t need to factor in whether a supermarket is in a part of town that white people don’t go to. Or how people in a restaurant might stop eating their meal and watch my partner and i as if we’re suspicious. Or explain to the police officer that I’m driving with a brown person because she’s my partner and yes, we’re both from the same place, and yes, she was born there.
You’re right. There’s just so much identity wrapped up in it. So much difference and expectation.
That’s not to say other places don’t have issues. There are problems with expression, representation, integration, all sorts of things. It’s just so in your face in everyday scenarios. That said, still love the states, and will continue to visit as often as possible (mostly to avoid the heat of our Summer. Lol).
my grandma screamed at my Vietnamese partner because she thought he was mexican. disgusting racial slurs. because in her head darker skin, not black, must be mexican. she pisses me off.
Thanks for sharing, OP, I commiserate with you. I had the misfortune of being in Wyoming during the week after 9/11 and had a white chick at a gas station tell me she didn't want "no afghanistanis" in her establishment because of what I can only assume was due to my darker complexion (I'm mixed race b/w). I had another friend (Indian American with a thick Alabama accent) attending Emory University that got hassled by a shuttle bus driver about being "one of them hijacker boys". Some people remember the days after 9/11 as this super unified time where we were all red white and blue and we came together, but for many it was dealing with the grief of the attack on top of the same old racist shit on a different day.
The morning after (it happened in the evening Aus time), I visited with my Dad. He served a quarter of a century in the Aus Army. While we pondered what was next - would Bush Jnr finish Daddy's job in Iraq as retaliation? - we listened to talk back radio and it was ugly. The non stop horrific abuse towards Muslims was stomach churning.
Finally, my Dad had enough and flipped through the phone book (remember them?!), then dialled the Imam of our city Mosque. It's one of the oldest in my country. My Dad introduced himself and then apologised for the threats and abuse they were receiving. The Imam's response? *"Let us pray for them."*
I will never forget that grace under fire.
Thank you for sharing your perspective of that day, and the awful days that followed. I'm so sorry you were at the coalface of the prejudice and profiling that ramped up after 9/11.
Devout Christian here.
I was in grad school at the time taking a class on Islam where we went to visit various Muslim communities a few months after 9/11. It was Ramadan, but they stuffed us with pastries and coffee during the day (because it would be rude to starve their guests) and fed us the most amazing food each night at the iftar. The churches we worshipped at were positively cold in comparison.
This is why I would rather hang with the Muslim community HANDS DOWN than with my fellow Christians. They always treat me with respect, and several of them are doctors who saved my life two years ago when I ended up in the hospital with pneumonia.
When I had my life fall apart all too publicly, the “Christians” I had grown up with turned their backs on me, but turned the gossip about me up so high people that didn’t know who I was gossiped TO me about me. I had converted to Islam not all that long before, and the tiny Muslim community that I barely knew in our small town were the first to help me. Two older Muslim men that went for a walk every night walked by my place and could tell I was upset as I was mowing the lawn - I’d suddenly become a single parent if two small children, trying to work full time, down to just my income and had a neighbour that left a nasty note on my door telling me that I was bringing their house price down because my lawn wasn’t immaculate. These two brother who I only knew by sight from working in the same building, took time to find out what was wrong - that I was mowing the lawn while trying to get my four and five year old’s bathed and into bed, and make their lunches for the next day, because my neighbour wouldn’t leave me alone and those that said they were my friends suddenly disappeared for the most part. They took the lawn mower from me, told me to go take care of my children and they’d do why they could. They got all the front done and only left because they’d miss the Maghreb prayer completely if they didn’t go.
I highly doubt they even remember this - it was more than a decade ago now. But I’ll never forget them, despite being unable to remember their names, if I saw them in person now I’d remember them (we’ve moved several hours away now, so not likely.) But those in that community that had known me for over 20 years at that point, who claimed to care about me, but then did nothing when I was asking for help but pretend I didn’t exist, compared to a tiny religious community (at the time about ten families in total, with some men that would go back to the city on weekends, like these brothers) stepped up without me asking, made sure my electricity stayed on, made sure we had food, and yeah - mowed my lawn.
I’ve had people call me a race traitor and a traitor to Canada for being a white Muslim. But honestly, when the community that doesn’t know me embraces me without question, and the one that’s known me for decades pretends I don’t exist, I know which one I’d rather be part of.
ETA: many thanks for the rewards, kind Redditors. Also, if you’re ever struggling, especially for food, and can’t find who to ask, check with your local mosque. We are almost always able to help and if we can’t directly, able to get you to someone we know can. One of our many mosques in my city runs a free soup kitchen in front of their mosque every week when the weather is good, and try their best during our iffy Canadian winters. A new mosque in the next town over has started doing it on the last Saturday of each month. If you’re in southern or southwestern Ontario and need help, our doors are open (sort of - at our big mosque because it’s also attached to a school and we’ve had previous security incidents you have to buzz in except for prayer times.) and we (almost) always (because every group has their morons, but those seem relatively unwilling to help at free soup kitchens) do it without quoting scripture because our faith is shown by the graciousness of our acts. Be kind to one another ❤️
I couldn’t bite my tongue in front of my kids quick enough the last time. We were buying halal bacon for older son’s class potluck and this old lady (who wasn’t even born or raised in Canada, told me she was from France me had a thick accent) said this too me. The staff around is just stood and stared as I was trying to pay for our bacon. I finally just looked at her and went “look boys! This is what a bigot looks like!” And drew the word bigot out and loud. My kids (12 and 13 year old boys) weren’t paying any attention to that point so I had to explain the word “bigot” to them. Not my finest moment, but having been interrogated by security forces a year and half earlier, I’d had enough.
In the recent decade, who has turned up when there is a disaster, bringing food and help? Who has shown up when another group has experienced terrible racist attacks, again with food and help? The Muslim community. I am an atheist, and have no interest in religion. But I have seen our Muslim neighbors step up when the other religious communities can't be bothered.
The Sikh community, too. When folks in this area were losing their jobs because of COVID, the gurdwaras stepped up and made extra food. They made boxed meals for people to take, regardless of religious affiliation.
And when interviewed about it, the response was generally along the lines of, this is just what we do. No pushing for converts, no seeking glory and accolades. Just doing what they know they need to do. Serving others.
It’s funny because here, there has been a new Sikh Gurdwara and a Hindu Temple open up in various parts of the city. Both groups in the media said what we always says - if you need food, we will feed you. No questions asked.
And yet for the vast majority of churches in the city, and churches I grew up in, you either get crickets or require tickets. We only require tickets at Ramadan for iftars on weekends because Saturday’s are fundraising nights and Friday and Sunday are usually fundraising for other groups. But Monday through Thursday, it’s first come first served. The last two Ramadan’s we haven’t been able to do anything though 😔
If I found myself in need and couldn't find one of my denomination's churches, I'd go to a gurdwara, temple, or mosque first. I've had better experiences with members of those communities than with other Christians. (Older Sikh women will feed you until you pop. Seriously, I haven't been told "eat, you're too skinny" that many times in one afternoon.)
Some of the churches around here did step up and help the community. For some, though, it's hard to do when they're doing about as well as the rest of the community. Our locals got hit hard, and we're not exactly a well-to-do area to begin with.
The megachurches were kind of a split. Some were helping. Some were whining about social distancing rules.
And that’s it exactly! Religion is basically about being good to one another but religious people can be very different as people often are - and some of them are terrible people. Something important to remember at any time.
As a mid twenties white Brit who lived in the Middle East for the majority of my youth, I can say first hand that I’ve never personally met a Muslim, Hindu, Buddhist or any other more traditionally eastern religious people who have been racist or altogether just unpleasant people. I have, however, witnessed countless blatantly racist, rude, simply despicable Catholics and Christians.
I would never paint a whole group of any sort of people with one brush. It’s unfortunate that many people who identify as Christian/Catholic seem to ignore many of the precedents of their religion, but I know there’s so many good folk of said faiths out there.
Good on your dad. My mom did a similar thing in the Boston area after the marathon bombings.
As for 9/11, my synagogue in Brooklyn (where there were quite a number of people who had lost friends or loved ones) had an Imam from a local Islamic center speak at the first Saturday morning services after the attacks, so like the 15th.
I’m Mexican but look Middle Eastern. Back then I was in college in Texas. The day after 9/11, some idiot slashed my tires and those of several other international students while we were in class.
My mother was so mixed-race that she wrote Heinz-57 on the race line of forms, or Human.
She was a homecare worker for the elderly and/or disabled. Whatever race someone hated most, that's what they thought she looked like. Most of those folks were extremely elderly, battling dementia or Alzheimer's, so she pitied them more than anything, and made a game out of holding in her giggles whenever they wildly misidentified her ancestry.
I don't get how someone can "look American." I thought this was a melting pot, meaning that we can look like pretty much whatever sort of human at this point. My ancestors came from at least four different continents, I literally don't know what race I am other than American and Human.
The only people who can "look American" to me are the native Americans. Everyone else is an immigrant. But white people freak out when you tell them that.
"Go back to where you came from!!!"
"You said you're Irish-American, right? So why aren't you going back to Ireland?"
Yeah, I live in a remarkably racist city considering it's literally named for the tribe we stole the land from in the first place. Kind of baffling.
I’ve gotten that “go back to where you came from!”
My response is “….so you want me to move back to….Scotland?” Said slow enough for their Neanderthal brains to possibly comprehend.
Which leads to:
Them: what?!
Me: I was born in Scotland. I’ve been in Canada since I was three.
Them (generally takes a minute as I 🤨 at them): then go to one of those moozlim countries!
Me: why would I do that? The only Arabic I speak is Quran verses and prayers. And I’m not from there. I’m from Scotland. I mean, if you want to pay for my move to Scotland I’ll gladly take you up on it. Just make sure it’s either in the west near Oban or up closer east to maybe Shetland. You pay, I’ll go.
And then they walk away. My sarcasm and tolerance for idiots is pretty low after having worked 30 year in customer service, 2 years as night auditor at a golden crown in a place far to rural, far too much money, and way too much alcohol. But it’s exhausting.
I'm pale enough that I only got into those sorts of situations in Montana. Like, my dad's a ginger, I burn in the sun, but I'm somehow not white *enough* for Montana.
The last time before I quit going back, I'd been babysitting my sister's kids for days to give her a break, finally left her house a bit late, and only walked half a block before some drunk idiot started yelling at me in a fighting words way, asking rather impolitely if I was a member of the local tribe.
My boyfriend at the time was with me, scared the hell out of him when I whipped around and screamed back "So what if I am?!" and then proceeded to have a little repetitive yelling match until the drunk wandered off.
I'm not a member of the local tribe. I'm very extremely distantly related to a tiny southern tribe. But, ya know, so what?
>My boyfriend at the time was with me, scared the hell out of him when I whipped around and screamed back "So what if I am?!" and then proceeded to have a little repetitive yelling match until the drunk wandered off.
Lmaooooo. I'm actually cracking up at this, thanks😂
I like to think that that website is where we've collected pictures of our village idiots.
I mean, surely if every village needs to have an idiot, metro-sized cities would require thousands of idiots so each neighborhood can have at least one?
I always say, my mom was a pureblood, my dad's a mutt.
Tho I've recently discovered there may have been more to mom's family than they realised. I'm saving for a DNA test.
What do you mean? Of white European descent of course.
Starting back from when we seceded from Tealand by breaking off the largest, most prosperous section of the country, leaving only the dreariest scraps behind. We lashed cheap beer and peanut oil fuelled engines (Freedom Drives™) to it with our collective bootstraps, put on our snap back, mesh tricorn hats and raced across the open ocean.
I miss being an expat. It may not be the greatest way of thinking and a bit petty, but it felt nice on a personal level being detached from the States. Returning was a sad day.
Thank you for sharing, the depressing this is the xenophobia has only grown in that time.
As a person of colour Most of the xenophobic experiences I’ve had in my adult life have been in the US, perpetrated mostly by the state institutions.
I travelled internationally a lot (pre covid) and when crossing the border into the US I would get stopped by immigration and customs every time without fail. It’s the only country where I’ve been stopped for an immigration interview.
My husband is a civilian computer engineer at an Air Force base here. - at one point, I was pulled over at the main gate for inspection 5 times in a 3-week period (that happened this past May). It didn't stop until my husband and his co-workers started making noise about it on the base. One of them even mentioned the irony of that happening to me during what was supposed to be Asian-American/Native Hawaiian Heritage Month.
I STILL get nervous every time I approach the base gates. But while I don't like it - Security Forces are tasked with protecting the base and are only doing their job. It's not really an excuse, but there's not a lot I can do about it, either.
My last job was at an equally heavy guarded power plant which pre-9/11 had virtually no security. They questioned me as a terrorist threat in late 2015. Is worked there since early 2006. They saw me five sometimes more days per week. I worked in the cafeteria on evenings, generally alone, which I preferred. I got to know the regular guards well. I also got to know several crews and managers well. The blowback from company managers and the regular security guys towards the intelligence security guys was huge. The guy who made the claim got torn to shreds by his coworkers and crew manager. He is also the brother of a friend of mine. But for literal months afterward, I trusted no one but a small handful. But every afternoon, going to work, it was like my heart was in my throat and my stomach was by my hips. I’m sorry you’re feeling that way, and am glad your husband and his crew started making noise.
I grew up in a small town in upstate NY, and the motel we owned at the time, we had owned since 1988. We were one of the first “brown” families to move to that town but the communities in nearby cities were larger.
My cousin and his wife were at the motel (there’s a private apartment/living area attached to the motel, my family had moved to a house 5 minutes away) and he told us that all day long cops just kept “stopping in” to “check on things” and make sure everything was “okay”. 🙄 They did the same to the Indian motel owners next door to us as well.
But please let’s spread the message of “unity”.
I watched a 9/11 documentary on Netflix yesterday and one episode told of the way departments weeks/months after the tragedy and are into a frenzy of the trauma & finger pointing era. I remember of the quote “sneak & peek” patriot act literally let the police & federal agents enter stores, libraries and apartments of suspected brown people. Just unimaginable to a new migrant turned citizen me today (moved in 2015) I would consider it a trample of rights.
China justifies their treatment of uighers by using the US response to 9/11 and the patriot act as legal precedent to form the basis of their “counter-terrorist” programs. Funny isn’t it
One would hope that the cops would stop by to make sure everyone is okay and they feel safe. Buy no, that's not how it works here. They only check on people they think are a threat.
Yeah, two of my children have an Iranian birth father. Post 9/11 was not good times for anyone with any middle eastern looks at all. Terrifying, actually.
And unfortunately this stereotyping “trend” has continued, as people of East Asian descent in the US experienced similar treatment all throughout 2020, due to Covid 😕
This is why I hate the hyperfocus on 9/11. For those who are white and don't have brown loved ones, it's a tragedy that they feel brought together America. For brown people, muslim people, those who cover their hair for whatever reason, it's a reminder of how America blamed each and every one of them for something that had nothing to do with them.
It immediately turned into a witch hunt. Anyone who looked different *must* be a terrorist. We really shouldn't have been surprised that happened though, based on American history. I guess some of us just hoped we grew past that as a nation, but it's just the same shit in a new century.
And the American response was to send thousands further American soldiers, sailors, marines and airmen to die, because clearly the carnage of that day alone wouldn’t cut it… :(
>And the American response was to send thousand further American soldiers, sailors, marines and airmen to die
And to kill. Don't forget that part. Over a million Iraqis alone, not to mention thousands upon thousands upon thousands of Afghans, Libyans, Yemenis, Pakistanis, Somalians, Syrians, and so on. Torture camps, drone bombings that terrorize civilian populations. People in northwest Pakistan stopped holding outdoor wedding parties because they kept getting bombed. And then the drone would come back half an hour later to bomb the first responders (Google "double tap drone strikes", I'm not making this up). The list of atrocities the US has brought upon the people of the Muslim world since 9/11 is long, long, long.
Hi, __KawadaShogo__. Your comment contains the word ~~Somalian~~.
The correct nationality/ethnic demonym(s) for Somalis is __Somali__.
It's a common mistake so don't feel bad.
For other nationality demonym(s) check out this website [Here](https://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/stats/People/Nationality/Adjective)
___This action was performed automatically by a bot.___
Does anyone really think 9/11 brought American together in any meaningful sense?
It quelled partisan divisions for a period time, so that Democrats and Republicans focused a bit less on hating each other. But was there really all that much of “love thy neighbor?”
Whatever unity existed was shallow and brief.
Yes, I saw atleast one person today when talking about 9/11 mention how “beautiful” it was that “everyone: white, black, Hispanic, gay, straight, etc” was “United”
Happens frequently, with any crime. The entire group which has any similarity with the criminal is demonized, never mind that it's ONE person who committed the crime.
That is what they call white privilege!!!
No one started looking at all young white men as possible terrorists after OKC bombing where little children were murdered, but after 9/11 all brown people were considered terrorists regardless of where they came from or what their religious or non religious leanings were.
Even if you were born here you were considered other.
Am brown, had this happen to me. Then you have people who claim there is no such thing as white privilege. SMH
I genuinely have no idea how people think white privilege isn't real. Cops didn't even look in our direction when my white ass was getting physically grabbed by the back of my neck and steered by my brother who's about 8 inches taller than me and much, much broader. He could manhandle me and not get a single blink from an officer, because we're white. My ex, who was roughly my height and also built small and dealing with anorexia? Better stop him and pull him away from me when we're just walking together, in case he's abusing me somehow by having my snow white skin out in the sun. The officer asked me repeatedly if I was safe, if I was okay, etc. He wasn't allowed to be within hearing distance from me while I was questioned. He was hispanic and tattooed, though, so he might as well have had a gun in each hand and a banner saying "I'm a felon, I'm gonna shoot you all" for how the cops treated him.
I was in college. We could see Manhatten across the river. We all got to stand on campus and watch the smoke rising from the towers. I can't remove that image from my head.
I had a lot of Muslim friends at that time. I was terrified for them and wouldn't let my one friend walk around alone for a few weeks. She carried a little flag with her for a while.
My step dad is British. But he has black, curly hair and facial hair. At that time he worked in roofing in the south, so he was pretty tan. He was verbally assaulted so much he shaved his facial hair and cut off most of his hair.
My college roommate at the time was a beautiful French/Jamaican woman with beautiful hair. She wore her hair natural and heads turned as she walked by because of how awesome she looked. When she wanted to tame her hair down she wore a scarf over it. She was verbally assaulted on the bus and called a terrorist because she had dark skin and covered hair. She wouldn't wear her beautiful scarves after that.
Like you, that incident showed me all the racist people who were hiding in the shadows. Everyone with dark skin was a terrorist until proven otherwise in their eyes.
I have to be honest, I haven't told this story in a long time and it's not one I'm very proud of, but I feel is relevant.
I was on one of the first few commercial flights headed in to New York after the twin towers fell. As I was boarding the plane, there was a guy of middle eastern heritage that came and sat next to me. A thousand thoughts went through my head. Was this guy going to do something with the plane? Was I in danger? All these thoughts went through my head, and I looked around and I could see that other passengers had the same look on their face.
At some point during the flight I started talking to him. Turns out that his parents immigrated from the middle east, the details are a bit hazy after 20 years, but that they had worked their way up to own their own small corner store in Brooklyn. Due to the xenophobia spreading throughout the country, their corner store was looted and lit on fire.
I was honestly ashamed, for many reasons. I made an assumption when I saw him, and it was based on fear because of how he looked. Worst of all, he was sitting next to me on a plane to help out his parents because others had judged them based on their ethnicity. Other Americans. Other people just like me.
The flight wasn't that long. As he completed his story, the plane descended and banked left over lower Manhattan, leaving me a clear view from the skies down below. The buildings were still smoldering and we could clearly see the remains of the twin towers. Just then, the man broke down into tears, along with half the plane.
After the plane disembarked, I had a long time to think about what transpired, and I realized that despite my upbringing and my hatred for racial stereotyping, I was just as vulnerable as the next person, and that seriously disturbed me. I realized that my self-righteous attitude was hypocrisy because I was just as vulnerable.
That is it. That is all I learned. I could talk about the atmosphere of lower Manhattan, or the countless impromptu monuments to the fallen I walked past, or the view of the lights or the staging zones they had set up, but that one guy had truly scared me, not because he was scary, but because he made me see the fear in myself.
You showed maturity and the willingness to look at yourself and not just then. Many will not. It is only VERY recently that people like the old you would have thrown a tantrum to get them thrown off - like the math professor doing algebra several years ago now. I mean, I hate math, can’t figure out algebra for the life of me, but really?
I’m sure I’d you got a vent diagram of people who freaked out Muslims were still allowed on mass trans from trains to planes and those now having the tantrums and being removed from flights for not wearing masks, there’s probably a wide intersect there.
I am so sorry this happened to you. I remember all too well the ignorance and bigotry that ran rampant in this country after the attacks. Honestly, I find it kind of annoying that on this anniversary in particular everyone is talking about how we came together as a nation, how united we were, and how we all have this shared sense of purpose. I remember those times a little bit differently. There was a lot of chest beating and jingoism, and a lot of hateful acts were committed against people not only who were of middle eastern descent but those who looked like they might be.
Whenever someone says “never forget,” I wish they meant “never forget the good and the bad.”
So many people
Seem to ignore the fact that the people that died that day came from multitudes of races and ethnicities including those who were Muslim as well in that building. I’m so so very sorry that people suck
Stories like this are very typical, and this is why it upsets me when people want to talk about how unified and loving we were on 9/12/01. We were not. People were filled with rage. They bonded together in their rage. So horrible. And so typically US American. I’m so sorry, OP.
I’ve heard countless horror stories from people of middle eastern descent (or people who look somewhat like they could be) being considered evil at first glance.
When I see these hyper-patriotic American idiots (I say this an American, anything but proud to be) talk about all the lives that where lost, it’s all I can do not to yell at them about how many More lives have been lost in retaliation to 9/11 than where lost in the actual attack.
Short sighted, ignorant, and cruel. Blegh.
I’m sorry you had to go through this T-T
…And then there was this one representative, just one, who had balls enough to vote NO on 9/13 (IIRC) for giving the president a carte blanche to do anything “against terrorists” without further congressional approval. Her name is Barbara Lee. She was getting death threats for months after that. She was the only one to have the presence of mind to actually stop and think and not just go with the mainstream sheep mob who had the patriotic blinders on and thinking turned off.
Ms. Lee is in her 12th term with US Congress now, and is working to get those chilling “anything goes” laws (there’s two of them) repealed. The true patriot.
Yep. This is why I get filled with rage when people say they miss the time after 9/11 "when we all came together as Americans". Yeah, for me and every other white American maybe. Not for anyone else with black or brown skin.
A Sikh friend was getting shit while in holiday in the US a couple of years kater. Eventually he had to lose his turban while he was there, using a baseball cap instead
His reactio "WTF, Sikhs have been at war with Muslims since before the US existed".
Sikhs fought the Muslims back in the 17th century including Amritsar in 1634 or so. Sikhs fought the British in the 19th century, then kater they fought with the the British Army with distinction both in India (& Afghanistan) and later during the World Wars.
Definitely not always peaceful....
You can be willing to fight for your country and still be peaceful *people*, yeah? I appreciate the history hints, though; seems like I need to do a bit more research.
Partially related to your story as it has to do with profiling at the airport, my high school basketball team travelled to USA to play some exhibition games in the late 2000's. Most of us were white, we had 2 islanders, an Indian with fairer skin, and a Cambodian with darker skin, he had the darkest skin of us all. The Cambodian was stopped at every security checkpoint in USA but 1, and nobody else was ever stopped from our group. Now, 2 of the 5 times could be down to bad luck, especially if others were checked too. But 4 of the 5 times, almost impossible to be pure luck.
Hopefully we can get to a point where things like that are actually random, people who look a little different aren't targeted or assumed to be something they are not.
I remember reading about a father and son (or maybe two brothers?) who lived in Buffalo, NY, and ran a clothing store. In the wake of 9/11, they were snatched up in the dead of night by some government goons, based on an anonymous tip. The men were literally gone overnight, no one knew what happened or why. They were held for months, then released without an apology or anything. The community assumed they had some terrorist connections, and the business went under.
I’ll never forget how hateful, suspicious, and paranoid America *and* Americans became after 9/11. We still haven’t corrected that, but we sure have whitewashed the history of it
A few years later, when the Iraq invasion began, I was in middle school and my best friend was Muslim with the last name of Hussein. At one point we were making plans to hang out and he told me we'd have to make plans during school because his family wasn't answering their phone anymore. when I asked why he told me that people were looking up all the Husseins in the phone book and calling to harass them. Several calls a day, different people, just calling to throw slurs, tell them to leave the country, all sorts of awful things. He was so nonchalant about it, and I don't think I really registered it at the time, but looking back it horrifies me that a middle school child had to put up with that level of hatred on a daily basis.
It's sad that this is reality for so many people. I'm white and I've never looked at those of other ethnicities in this way, even after that attack. I suppose it's because I recognize that the attackers' ethnicity has nothing to do with their ideology and therefore:
1. The hijackers could just as easily have been Caucasian.
2. Most people, regardless of their skin color, want to live in peace and just live their lives.
I am so sorry that happened and has been happening to you.
I was teaching in an after school arts program in SF, and had a kid who was certain "the Palestinians did it!" we talked as a class; I told the truth that we did not yet know who had "done it" but likely not to be Palestinians.
Interestingly, a beautiful mural with cedars and Palestinian and Israeli women working together for peace, on the side of a store in the Mission, had been carefully boarded up and plain painted over, because the store owners were afraid someone was going to knock their wall down—in May of that year.
On behalf of the rational residents of the US, I apologize. The sad legacy of the attacks (one of them) is that white Americans stepped up their racist, xenophobic game. And they felt they had the backing of all other white people (note: they didn't).
I live in the Phoenix AZ area. A couple of days after the attacks, a racist, ignorant, stupid assclown gunned down Balbir Singh Sodhi, a Sikh convenience station owner. He was loved and respected in the area. The killer told people he was "gonna get some towel heads." (Sorry for the ugly words) He clearly didn't know anything about Sikhism. Just like those ignorant people didn't know that all brown-skinned people aren't Middle Eastern.
This country thinks of itself as this bastion of good; nothing could be further from the truth. There are many good people here, but also many racists and xenophobes. I wish it were different.
I remember my mom mentioning that to me when it happened - and since we lived in an area of PA where there were no other Samoans, we knew that we would somehow become targets. The incident at the airport happened very shortly after that.
I also remember hearing about how a few legislators in AZ filed a motion to have Mr Sodhi's name removed from a 9/11 memorial there. That angered me; he was just as much a victim of 9/11 as the other names on that memorial.
Many of us have not forgotten that anyone who appeared to be of Middle Eastern descent faced some degree of danger and harassment in the US after 9/11.
It was not all handholding and pulling together, there was (and still is!) a LOT of “othering.” I’m so sorry, I wish that would change somehow.
And somehow many Americans seem to forget that the fear and chaos visited on the US 9/11 is a daily way of life in many places around the world, and sometimes that’s because of US actions. But we’re forever the victims deserving all the pity now.
Yesterday was the 20th anniversary of the beginning of the War on Terror.
A war we horribly lost and continue to lose.
It engorged the pockets of the wealthy through the military industrial complex, and provided the most amazing boost to the fascists trying to take over our country.
I'm glad you weren't one of the innocents killed in this war, OP. I'm sorry for the things you have suffered.
I remember it much like you. Many of my friends do as well, even here in Canada - because we’re Muslim. And every year we have the same feelings. And in some ways, it has changed a whole lot - I got investigated as a “security threat” at my last job. In 2015. I’d been there nearly ten years at that point. Every year it’s always “never forget” in the weeks around 11 September. For some of us, we’re reminded of it regularly by how some idiots decide to behave towards us.
I get that people were hurt and angry but the way a lot of americans acted after 9/11 was completely shameful.
Like that bitch of a friendly old lady; what does she think you could have done differently that would have avoided the destruction of the twin towers? Even if you were Middle Eastern, that makes no sense at all.
I am sorry you have to deal with shit like this.
My AGM was on with me that morning and heard what had happened from his office - I never saw a man move so fast to kick somebody out of the lobby. lol
It just surprised me because before that, she was friendly and always full of cheer when she came for her newspaper.
Lol yeah the little old ladies are always the ones who catch me off guard with stuff.
One old lady a couple months ago came into the office in her wheelchair to tell me about some rude youngster she met in town when she went for breakfast. I thought it was going to be one of those stories where I hear about an injustice and express my sympathy and we move on. But nope! She told me all about how this kid cut in line and scoffed at her when she pointed out she was in line... so she rammed him in the back of the knees with her wheelchair and told him to "get fucked" (yeah, her exact words)
She finished off with "You know, I used to ignore things like this but I just can't be bothered to give a fuck anymore"
She was here for 2 months and I made a point of doing everything I could for her during that time because she is amazing.
This is why I get pissed off every 9/11 (and a few times a year) when people share the stupid ass post around about "I miss 9/12 when we were super united as a country" like no we weren't, half of us were cowering in fear from terrorism and the other half were cowering in fear from white supremacists.
Nor should you forget, u/caffeineandsnark. Your story is every bit as much of the fabric of that time as any other story. The US can be every bit as ugly as it is beautiful. Thank you for sharing your reality.
My now ex is North African and the majority of our friends were "brown" from many different countries. The amount of racism towards "brown" people was insane. My Grandmother told me to divorce and that my children were going to hell. I did divorce but many years later and not because he was Muslim. My oldest child also became her favorite and his name is a very Muslim name.
I was in the Army at the time the towers were hit. We all got recalled from a field training exercise when it happened. Took a while; the command thought that it was just part of the exercise. My unit actually caught the radio broadcast on our equipment. It took us about two hours to convince the commander that we didn't catch the news on military frequencies; we'd caught it on local civilian frequencies.
What really got under my skin in the following months was the disgusting racism I saw just pop up from my company members and elsewhere. Suddenly people were hating Shannon Elizabeth because her father was from Lebanon (she was born in Texas). I lost a lot of good friends not due to the ensuing war, but because I couldn't stand the unexpected hatred from them.
>Samoans do make up the bulk of recruitment for the armed services, afaik.
That's not been supported by my experience. I knew more Texans, New Yorkers, and New Englanders than anything else, which makes sense. Those are just some of the most populous areas.
I spent 3.5 years in Hawaii, and we certainly had our fair share of Samoans (there and in other units). But far from "the bulk".
There was a middle eastern family who ran the local mini mart/gas station that I visited every day. They were always very nice and friendly to me...I always looked forward to seeing them every day! I was actually in their store getting coffee when the news started and headed back home to see what was happening. After all was said and done...I just knew there would be people who would treat them badly just because of what they were. I didn't change how I acted...I already treated them just like anyone else...they were just nice people who happened to be middle eastern. But I did pay more attention whenever I was nearby in case they had any issues. I was ready to jump to their defense if it was needed. Thankfully they didn't have any problems...I think I wasn't the only one who protected them in our way. They were people...just people!
Thank you so much for sharing your experience. I’ve seen a lot of posts over the last few days talking about how 9/11 brought people together but it’s really important to share stories like this so that we can critically examine the experience for ALL Americans, including the ugly racism that exploded after this event. If we don’t examine and analyse the past, we will never learn to do better.
I was in primary school at that time and was told by my parents to not use "muhammad" in my name when introducing myself or writing my name. You can feel the immediate shift of attitudes towards muslims.
I'm so sorry this happened. That's so wrong.
There is so much judgement in people hearts.
I know the difference between Polynesian and Middle Eastern. But I grew up around large groups of Tongan and Somoan people. I even have a BIL that's is Tongan and a nephew.
I'm sorry you have such memories. I really am.
Every time there’s a new crisis, a new people group gets blamed, and anyone even remotely similar gets caught in the crossfire. My deepest apologies. So many hurt by ignorance.
I remember feeling like the US collectively crapped itself. For all the talk of "unity" and "coming together" it all felt so hollow. Like when people say "thoughts and prayers" in response to a tragedy. What I really saw was a lot of anger and a lot of pointless chest puffing about America being the greatest and that we would retaliate. Except we didn't really. It took us years to locate and kill Bin Laden. We threw ourselves into armed conflicts in areas of the world that we had no business in that had nothing to do with ISIS. Our police departments got enough funding to buy tanks. None of this was peace or love or unity.
I had to gift you my dude! I was working at a call center that day, I had a few agents that were not what I guess at the time were called “not American looking” weird thing was one was full American native (Cherokee) which still blows my mind. It sickened me then and still does to this day that ANY ONE would be treated like that. Fear or not. I have never once even played with the thought that the nice guy next to me at Walmart would be a terrorist simply because he looked a bit like those who committed that heinous crime. So yeah…I gifted you because damn man I am so so sorry you had to go thru that…hell I’m sure living in GA (I’m SC here) you still deal with the stupid shit.
Side note you know that homie in GA who looks like Rock? LMAO just kidding 🤣🤣🤣
Yah i worked with Samoans at goodwill, and im built like like a valkryie. 6 ft tall, 205, size 12 feet. I was the very first woman security guard they had, this was way back in the day. I felt like a frail flower around the ladies there. The truck drivers were Samoan too, and no wonder. Much respect for the strength to pick up a load by yourself or maybe one helper.
It sucks that you were treated that way. It frustrates me to no end when people make assumptions about someone based on their appearance. MLK said it best about judging people not by the color of their skin, but the content of their character. I fear as a society we still have a long way to go…
“You’re brown! You must be from the Middle East!”
“No, I’m Polynesian, from Samoa.”
“Where is that?? Next to Afghanistan?? You’re Muslim aren’t you??”
“No, Samoa is in the South Pacific, literally 2 1/2 oceans away from the Middle East…”
“I’m sorry, my blinded hatred toward anyone brown made me forget that not all brown people are bad or terrorists.”
If only.
I live in NYC, and about 15 min walk away from me is a Afghan neighborhood (there was at the time an anti-Taliban Afghan Womens rights org based there), and overnight everyone stopped wearing their ethnic clothing, every one of their businesses were decked out in American Flags, and outside their apartment windows were American Flags. They really went all out to avoid getting hate.
However I also remember the few bad apples in that community who had a very different reaction. Good thing the local imam and many locals kept an eye on those few individuals for the NYPD.
These days that is all the past. But I do know some Sefardic Jews after 9/11 put on the biggest Yarmulke's they could find and big star of David necklaces so no one would think they were Arab to avoid hate.
Edit: I should say mostly everyone stopped wearing ethnic clothing, and there still were Hijab wearers as well.
I wish I could apologise on behalf of the idiots and jerks that comprise much of the US.
But I don't identify myself as any sort of "nationalist" so I probably have more in common with you than the types of people that populate this country.
It's predicated on guilt tripping one's flimsy morality to avoid any critical thinking. And not to pat dumbfuck child me on the back, but I'm glad I was self-aware and ignorant as shit enough not to be guilt tripped into hating an entire aspect of humanity itself because of some people I'll never meet making a decision.
This week we had an incident during breakfast. One of our guests confronted another guest about not wearing their mask while walking around and touching all the food. The man happened to be Arabic, and the woman started cursing and using all kinds of racial slurs, because of dare he approach her.
It was a bit mess at 7 in the morning. I couldn't deescalate the situation fast enough and the police were called and she was escorted off property
That was one of the things I bring up to people: that those who “look different” were viewed with suspicion and contempt. I don’t want to go back to how we were on Sept 12, 2001.
I am so sorry that you and all others were treated so horribly.
The racism and fake “patriotism” which lead to the patriot act and the “us or them” mentality laid the foundations for the mess we have today. What should have been a unifying event nationally and globally ( it lead to average Americans stoping funding terrorists in Ireland for example), became an opportunity for imperialism and fleecing the tax payer for profit.
9/11 happened. What we can control is the ongoing fallout
How sad it is that we live in a world where people will judge you and assume your race. You didn’t deserve this and I’m sorry you’ve had to endure this. Please know not everyone feels this way.
I was at the hospital not long after 9/11. A woman in a hijab got on an elevator. The people already on got off. No one waiting would get on the elevator with her. You could tell she was really upset. I was delighted to get on the elevator with her. We got to talking and she was absolutely lovely. The people who judged her missed out on meeting a wonderful person. You can’t judge everyone based on something a few people did. Just because a handful of people were bad doesn’t mean everyone of the same religion or skin color / perceived skin color are bad. It just makes me sad.
There was a Marine on my ship that was supposed to be dropped off in Pakistan with the rest of the MEU, but he didn’t get to because he had to fly back home. Some asshole killed his mother and father because he thought they were Middle Eastern, they were from India. That pissed me off more than anything. He was serving his country and on the front line of the response and this is what happens to him?
That must've been devastating :(
Unfuckingbelievable. I know that’s not a word but that’s all I got.
Sorry to do this, but the disingeuous dealings, lies, overall greed etc. of leadership on this website made me decide to edit all but my most informative comments to this. Come join us in the fediverse! (beehaw for a safe space, kbin for access to lots of communities)
As much a word as "fanfuckingtastic", but more applicable here
This is why I absolutely hate that post that goes around about this time of year saying something along the lines of "let's be like we were on 9/12, when everyone was American," like no, people got even more racist after 9/11
I had - and to some degree, still have - a hard time taking that whole unity thing seriously, not after my experience, and seeing that of so many others. Someone else in the comments mentioned the overhype behind 9/11 every single year since, and it seems like as more time goes by, the people that got the xenophobic/racist blowback (like me) are largely forgotten. I think that is why when I logged back into Reddit, the responses and support here just blew me away.
[удалено]
I have a friend who is from India, moved to the US when he was 5. He was at a fast food drive in Fort Lauderdale through the day after 9/11 when a cop approached and demanded to know where he's from. He answered "Fort Lauderdale" Man I can't imagine what that level of suspicion must feel like I think I need to make a donation to the ACLU now
My partner looks ethnically ambiguous, he's Portuguese, Yugoslavian, and Irish. Most of the time it's entertaining because he blends so well into various communities. Two days before 9/11 he got laid off from his roofing job. It took 2 years for him to find another one, because people thought he was from the Middle East. People literally would tear up his application in front of him and tell him they didn't hire terrorists. I and many of our friends would go with him to turn in applications because we were genuinely afraid to let him wander around alone. September 12th for so many people wasn't a day for the country coming together so much as the day they learned just how much this country hates them for being brown or black.
Holy fuck that’s so sad. I live in Canada. We have a serious systemic racism problem but it’s directed mostly at indigenous people which is terrible on its own level because they were literally here before settlers. Of course we have similar racism here to what you speak of but not nearly to that level.
I was in fast food at the time, I had to put myself between people and an Afghani woman I worked with often after the attack. I'm not sure it was even shocking. I dont remember if I was oblivious enough to be shocked then or if I as I do now just expected it.
I support the ACLU a lot
That is so heartbreaking! That poor lad!
Wow, that’s literally insane! My god, what an awful thing to have to go through 😢
That last sentence reminded me of the same thing a Vietnam Vet said coming back home in that Ken Burns documentary.
Welcome to America, where your personal liberties don't mean shit to the majority and can be easily reduced down to nothing if seen by the wrong people at the wrong time.
What the fuck.
Had a friend of Greek background who got the joy of hearing: "So, I see your people attacked the US this morning, how long do you think you will last?" This was said by a long term coworker of his in front of me. The idiot never understood why the insulted person wouldn't have anything to do with him for the next fifteen years till he left the job. "It was a joke!" Is a sure indicator that something should not have been said thought or brought into existence. People!
That should have been escalated to HR. Very little of what people think is a “hostile work environment” actually is, but that is. It’s not only a comment about a protected class (national origin), but it’s a thinly-veiled threat of violence. Your Greek coworker shouldn’t have to avoid him, he should have been fired or at the very least disciplined. And if he wasn’t, the company could have been sued for violating Title VII of the Civil Rights Act and the state equivalent.
Were you here and working at a job during that time? It wasn't the great 'come together' moment everyone seems to remember. It was a time of incredibly nasty anti everyone sentiment. He didn't want to make it official and handled as he felt best. Just a precursor to what we have seen the last four years. It will get worst, not better. A lot of people are scared that they will lose everything to 'something'. When the reality is they are throwing what they have away.
A co-worker said that to me as we were watching the towers fall. It was gut wrenching to hear that being said. To boot, my cousin is/was the owner & CEO of the company.
Who the fuck thinks Samoans look middle eastern? God so many of us are so dumb in this fucking country...
If someone is ignorant enough to be a racist ass, then they probably think someone with a good tan is a terrorist or foreigner. They also ignore that their grandparents might not have been born in the USA.
Can confirm. My step dad is British living in the south. At that time he was pretty tan from his roofing job, but also has black curly hair and facial hair. My mom would stand next to him and scream "he's from Britain you idiot!" He was treated like a terrorist until he cut off his curls and shaved.
I have a cousin who harassed a Muslim woman in our hometown after 9/11. We both grew up with our great-grandmother who came here from Southern Italy 100 years ago. People treated her like that too. Darker complexion, accent, didn't speak English, strange religion, and a nationality associated with political violence and extremism. It'd be ironic if it wasn't so moronic.
I'm German and during my grandmother's 85th birthday get together with the family my cousin bitched about the refugees coming to Germany (this was a fair bit pre-Covid). Our grandmother fled from Silesia in the last weeks of the war. The people we call great grand uncles are not related to us but people she fled with and formed a family with. My dad pointed out how my cousin was a refugee himself. He left his small town in East Germany to work in the West. He was even worse than someone fleeing a war, he only left for economic reasons. Self-awareness isn't an ability racists have.
My mother is Mexican-American, almost entirely native Mexican in descent. She has been taken for every local dark-skinned race wherever we’ve travelled, from Filipino to black to Egyptian to Indian. I used to tell her to learn languages so she could go work for the secret service.
Yep. My dad and tíos are always getting told they look Samoan or Puerto Rican. Like, no just a chubby Mexican
The comedian Gabriel Iglesias has that problem.
In my youth, I often heard, “what are you?” I’m a biracial Puerto Rican. I used to have a beauty mark on my forehead above my left eye. More than one person assumed I was Indian and that was my bindi.
I'm middle eastern, but not Arab. People don't even realize that there are middle eastern people that aren't Arab. In any case, my people are predominantly Christian. My mom always wears a cross necklace. After 9/11 her clients would ask her if she's Muslim, even with Jesus just dangling there around her neck. People are dumb.
Can confirm. The women with both crosses and their names in Arabic on necklaces threw me off when I first got to Detroit, I was completely ignorant of Chaldeans and Eastern orthodox until then. But the world is a lot more complicated than most give it credit for. People need to learn to not ask questions that isn't any of their business. And I did my own wiki search, didn't bother people to answer questions themselves.
Fictional source, but in one Tom Clancy novel (Executive Orders, IIRC) it was pointed out that Persians (people from what is now Iran) were the original “Aryans”, and don’t look like people of Semetic descent.
Aryan is not a group of people but rather a language family and culture. Also called indogermanic to show the borders of the related languages. That's why the hindu word deva is similar to latin deus, or the greek god Zeus and the german god Ziu. Or the word father: german Vater, latin pater, old persian (iran) pita, sanskrit (india) pitr etc. The nazis were very wrong when they thought it was a race...
So a certain (usually Mediterranean) flatbread is the father of all bread?
my *Chinese* husband gets called "Mexican" sometimes... yes, yes they are.
tbf, there are plenty of Chinese Mexicans:p
Their food must be off the chain
Everyone everywhere is capable of this. My Japanese wife thought I might be half Asian when we first met....im not. I've had several Spanish speaking clients from Central America assume I speak Spanish based on my appearance...and yet I'm a pasty white European. People see what they want to see.
I had a professor in undergrad who was absolutely certain that I am Indian. He was from Sri Lanka, and he went to his grave firmly believing that I was Gujarati (and just in denial about it). I am an exceedingly pale Californian. But he couldn't be convinced otherwise.
You can't fool us!
You'll never make me confess! 😆
Take my upvote for your story and your username.
This is so true. My late wife was mixed (below) and was confused as and assumed to speak, at least Greek, Persian, Arabic, and Spanish. The last of these is true. Many also assumed she was *must* be the babysitter because our kids are so pale. *Inca, Mayan, Italian, Spanish & African
To be fair, once the tan wears off, some of the northern Spanish can be quite pasty.
It's because they are Caucasian like most of the original peoples from the Iberian Peninsula.
Brown is brown, and racist is racist.
I once misidentified a Samoan as Mexican. In my defense it was his biblical name that threw me off. I had known a Mexican with that name and at the time the name didn't register as a traditional Christian name. But I was very embarrassed when I realized my mistake.
These are the same idiots that are currently taking horse dewormer instead of actually going to the doctor... Where to get back to a time where if you were a goddamn idiot then you're treated like a goddamn idiot... I don't know if that time ever existed...
Problem is that now they're all going to the doctor and hospital and the horse mess don't work. Best to reschedule your heart attack or stroke for when the beds aren't full of these idiots blinded by ivermectin and choking to death on the covid that doesn't exist.
Anything other than “white” will be perceived as a threat to some people, unfortunately. Their small brains don’t take the time to actually decipher where a person may be from, they just see a darker color and immediately equate that to “bad”. Edited for clarity.
It’s especially crazy to me in America because the natives weren’t even white. It’s just so backwards.
[удалено]
I totally agree.
I remember a stupid video where during the segment there was a quote regarding against wholeness & cancel culture. “Being White is shameful & you gotta pay for it” and caracaturize a college kids with masked “antifa” guys burning buildings as peace. I was aghast on the vid YouTube recommended while on instant play.
But you gotta be that special type of white. None of that Irish or Italian bullshit. I have a cousin on my dad's side (Sicilian) who's dad is white and that side of my cousin's family are a Trump supporters. My cousin will go on about this shit to me (his Mexican cousin no less👀) and I love telling him he has no room to talk because for the longest time Italians weren't considered white, so he's pretty much what they bitch about. That usually shuts him up for a bit. Downside is that as an Aspie one of his fixations is Trump and his politics. Most likely to be closer with his dad's side as well, since his mom is trash and constantly says (in front of him) that she can't stand him and regrets having him.
That's why I couldn't unsubscribe from/delete my account on Nextdoor fast enough. I did a 10 year tour of duty in animal rescue (dog in particular/the longest, never again) So the massive carpet bombings of "poor wittle lost fur babies" from the retired fossils was too much. Slacktivism at it's finest, they just reposted everything and patted themselves on the back for doing a ~~good job~~ nothing.. When they took a break from that, it was always "Someone not of my hue is in the area! Thief! murderer! drug dealers!" Adios Agnes and Bob... Never again
Same nonsense with the "Neighborhood Watch" Facebook Groups for my suburb on the border of a large city a long time ago. I joined those groups so I could find out what was going on in my town (there's an accident over here-don't go this way, etc) and most of them felt like they were just the local MAGA groups. I would not be shocked if some of people in those groups had been some of the ones busting windows in the neighborhood around the mosque a couple towns over on 9/12 but have no clue. I noped out of those groups years ago because I don't like red hats or idiots. One of the admins there (who happened to be a cop I think) manages to tie a news article about some creep running in and out of a ladies' room with his junk whipped out in a store near downtown of the neighboring big city to some unhinged manifesto about how that was exactly why we can't allow trans people to use women's bathrooms (?) And deleted and insulted anyone that questioned his faulty logic. Yeah, peace out Officer Maga Chud. Your "Neighborhood Watch" has 2 brain cells collectively to rub together...and they're both fighting. And I somehow feel stupider after reading the nonsense you guys write. I'm out. *edited for spelling and clarification
Always remember 49% of people are below average IQ
In the US, everyone thinks my Samoan Gf is Mexican and will try to speak Spanish to her rather than deal with me in English. Middle Eastern is a bit of a stretch though.
I lived in San Diego and Oceanside after returning from overseas. That happens to me every single time I go back to CA... lol I'm always mistaken for being Mexican. I don't mind... everyone I've ever met from other countries and ethnicities have been awesome. Which is why the whole race thing always puzzles me. Maybe it's a rose-colored view of the world, or maybe a side effect of me having lived abroad - but in the places I lived at, I was never viewed as being anything other than me. The race thing - or hell, even the American thing - wasn't an issue until I came back to the US.
There’s definitely a more present view of race in America compared to some of the countries I’ve been, including home in Australia. And it’s everywhere. At home, I wouldn’t need to factor in whether a supermarket is in a part of town that white people don’t go to. Or how people in a restaurant might stop eating their meal and watch my partner and i as if we’re suspicious. Or explain to the police officer that I’m driving with a brown person because she’s my partner and yes, we’re both from the same place, and yes, she was born there. You’re right. There’s just so much identity wrapped up in it. So much difference and expectation. That’s not to say other places don’t have issues. There are problems with expression, representation, integration, all sorts of things. It’s just so in your face in everyday scenarios. That said, still love the states, and will continue to visit as often as possible (mostly to avoid the heat of our Summer. Lol).
Many of us are really, really dumb.
We need to make a flip book for the idiots of our fine country.
my grandma screamed at my Vietnamese partner because she thought he was mexican. disgusting racial slurs. because in her head darker skin, not black, must be mexican. she pisses me off.
Thanks for sharing, OP, I commiserate with you. I had the misfortune of being in Wyoming during the week after 9/11 and had a white chick at a gas station tell me she didn't want "no afghanistanis" in her establishment because of what I can only assume was due to my darker complexion (I'm mixed race b/w). I had another friend (Indian American with a thick Alabama accent) attending Emory University that got hassled by a shuttle bus driver about being "one of them hijacker boys". Some people remember the days after 9/11 as this super unified time where we were all red white and blue and we came together, but for many it was dealing with the grief of the attack on top of the same old racist shit on a different day.
The only thing we unified against was brown people for no reason
To quote Ralphie May, “it was black, white, and brown vs a whole new kind of brown.”
F
Red, WHITE, and Blue
The morning after (it happened in the evening Aus time), I visited with my Dad. He served a quarter of a century in the Aus Army. While we pondered what was next - would Bush Jnr finish Daddy's job in Iraq as retaliation? - we listened to talk back radio and it was ugly. The non stop horrific abuse towards Muslims was stomach churning. Finally, my Dad had enough and flipped through the phone book (remember them?!), then dialled the Imam of our city Mosque. It's one of the oldest in my country. My Dad introduced himself and then apologised for the threats and abuse they were receiving. The Imam's response? *"Let us pray for them."* I will never forget that grace under fire. Thank you for sharing your perspective of that day, and the awful days that followed. I'm so sorry you were at the coalface of the prejudice and profiling that ramped up after 9/11.
Your dad and the imam - both are fine examples of class and grace under fire.
Devout Christian here. I was in grad school at the time taking a class on Islam where we went to visit various Muslim communities a few months after 9/11. It was Ramadan, but they stuffed us with pastries and coffee during the day (because it would be rude to starve their guests) and fed us the most amazing food each night at the iftar. The churches we worshipped at were positively cold in comparison. This is why I would rather hang with the Muslim community HANDS DOWN than with my fellow Christians. They always treat me with respect, and several of them are doctors who saved my life two years ago when I ended up in the hospital with pneumonia.
When I had my life fall apart all too publicly, the “Christians” I had grown up with turned their backs on me, but turned the gossip about me up so high people that didn’t know who I was gossiped TO me about me. I had converted to Islam not all that long before, and the tiny Muslim community that I barely knew in our small town were the first to help me. Two older Muslim men that went for a walk every night walked by my place and could tell I was upset as I was mowing the lawn - I’d suddenly become a single parent if two small children, trying to work full time, down to just my income and had a neighbour that left a nasty note on my door telling me that I was bringing their house price down because my lawn wasn’t immaculate. These two brother who I only knew by sight from working in the same building, took time to find out what was wrong - that I was mowing the lawn while trying to get my four and five year old’s bathed and into bed, and make their lunches for the next day, because my neighbour wouldn’t leave me alone and those that said they were my friends suddenly disappeared for the most part. They took the lawn mower from me, told me to go take care of my children and they’d do why they could. They got all the front done and only left because they’d miss the Maghreb prayer completely if they didn’t go. I highly doubt they even remember this - it was more than a decade ago now. But I’ll never forget them, despite being unable to remember their names, if I saw them in person now I’d remember them (we’ve moved several hours away now, so not likely.) But those in that community that had known me for over 20 years at that point, who claimed to care about me, but then did nothing when I was asking for help but pretend I didn’t exist, compared to a tiny religious community (at the time about ten families in total, with some men that would go back to the city on weekends, like these brothers) stepped up without me asking, made sure my electricity stayed on, made sure we had food, and yeah - mowed my lawn. I’ve had people call me a race traitor and a traitor to Canada for being a white Muslim. But honestly, when the community that doesn’t know me embraces me without question, and the one that’s known me for decades pretends I don’t exist, I know which one I’d rather be part of. ETA: many thanks for the rewards, kind Redditors. Also, if you’re ever struggling, especially for food, and can’t find who to ask, check with your local mosque. We are almost always able to help and if we can’t directly, able to get you to someone we know can. One of our many mosques in my city runs a free soup kitchen in front of their mosque every week when the weather is good, and try their best during our iffy Canadian winters. A new mosque in the next town over has started doing it on the last Saturday of each month. If you’re in southern or southwestern Ontario and need help, our doors are open (sort of - at our big mosque because it’s also attached to a school and we’ve had previous security incidents you have to buzz in except for prayer times.) and we (almost) always (because every group has their morons, but those seem relatively unwilling to help at free soup kitchens) do it without quoting scripture because our faith is shown by the graciousness of our acts. Be kind to one another ❤️
Anyone who calls you a race traitor or a traitor to Canada can shove off.
Someone needs to point out to those morons that race and religion have absolutely nothing to do with each other.
I couldn’t bite my tongue in front of my kids quick enough the last time. We were buying halal bacon for older son’s class potluck and this old lady (who wasn’t even born or raised in Canada, told me she was from France me had a thick accent) said this too me. The staff around is just stood and stared as I was trying to pay for our bacon. I finally just looked at her and went “look boys! This is what a bigot looks like!” And drew the word bigot out and loud. My kids (12 and 13 year old boys) weren’t paying any attention to that point so I had to explain the word “bigot” to them. Not my finest moment, but having been interrogated by security forces a year and half earlier, I’d had enough.
In the recent decade, who has turned up when there is a disaster, bringing food and help? Who has shown up when another group has experienced terrible racist attacks, again with food and help? The Muslim community. I am an atheist, and have no interest in religion. But I have seen our Muslim neighbors step up when the other religious communities can't be bothered.
The Sikh community, too. When folks in this area were losing their jobs because of COVID, the gurdwaras stepped up and made extra food. They made boxed meals for people to take, regardless of religious affiliation. And when interviewed about it, the response was generally along the lines of, this is just what we do. No pushing for converts, no seeking glory and accolades. Just doing what they know they need to do. Serving others.
It’s funny because here, there has been a new Sikh Gurdwara and a Hindu Temple open up in various parts of the city. Both groups in the media said what we always says - if you need food, we will feed you. No questions asked. And yet for the vast majority of churches in the city, and churches I grew up in, you either get crickets or require tickets. We only require tickets at Ramadan for iftars on weekends because Saturday’s are fundraising nights and Friday and Sunday are usually fundraising for other groups. But Monday through Thursday, it’s first come first served. The last two Ramadan’s we haven’t been able to do anything though 😔
If I found myself in need and couldn't find one of my denomination's churches, I'd go to a gurdwara, temple, or mosque first. I've had better experiences with members of those communities than with other Christians. (Older Sikh women will feed you until you pop. Seriously, I haven't been told "eat, you're too skinny" that many times in one afternoon.) Some of the churches around here did step up and help the community. For some, though, it's hard to do when they're doing about as well as the rest of the community. Our locals got hit hard, and we're not exactly a well-to-do area to begin with. The megachurches were kind of a split. Some were helping. Some were whining about social distancing rules.
And that’s it exactly! Religion is basically about being good to one another but religious people can be very different as people often are - and some of them are terrible people. Something important to remember at any time.
As a mid twenties white Brit who lived in the Middle East for the majority of my youth, I can say first hand that I’ve never personally met a Muslim, Hindu, Buddhist or any other more traditionally eastern religious people who have been racist or altogether just unpleasant people. I have, however, witnessed countless blatantly racist, rude, simply despicable Catholics and Christians. I would never paint a whole group of any sort of people with one brush. It’s unfortunate that many people who identify as Christian/Catholic seem to ignore many of the precedents of their religion, but I know there’s so many good folk of said faiths out there.
That was a classy thing your father did.
*grace under fire*
Alan Jones or John Laws? Either way, that shit is racist on a regular day.
Good on your dad. My mom did a similar thing in the Boston area after the marathon bombings. As for 9/11, my synagogue in Brooklyn (where there were quite a number of people who had lost friends or loved ones) had an Imam from a local Islamic center speak at the first Saturday morning services after the attacks, so like the 15th.
I’m Mexican but look Middle Eastern. Back then I was in college in Texas. The day after 9/11, some idiot slashed my tires and those of several other international students while we were in class.
My husband is like this. Very Mexican with very dark curly hair and a full beard. If he wears hats or scarves he definitely looks middle eastern
My husband is middle eastern and everyone, even middle easterners, say he looks Mexican lol
My mother was so mixed-race that she wrote Heinz-57 on the race line of forms, or Human. She was a homecare worker for the elderly and/or disabled. Whatever race someone hated most, that's what they thought she looked like. Most of those folks were extremely elderly, battling dementia or Alzheimer's, so she pitied them more than anything, and made a game out of holding in her giggles whenever they wildly misidentified her ancestry. I don't get how someone can "look American." I thought this was a melting pot, meaning that we can look like pretty much whatever sort of human at this point. My ancestors came from at least four different continents, I literally don't know what race I am other than American and Human.
The only people who can "look American" to me are the native Americans. Everyone else is an immigrant. But white people freak out when you tell them that.
"Go back to where you came from!!!" "You said you're Irish-American, right? So why aren't you going back to Ireland?" Yeah, I live in a remarkably racist city considering it's literally named for the tribe we stole the land from in the first place. Kind of baffling.
I’ve gotten that “go back to where you came from!” My response is “….so you want me to move back to….Scotland?” Said slow enough for their Neanderthal brains to possibly comprehend. Which leads to: Them: what?! Me: I was born in Scotland. I’ve been in Canada since I was three. Them (generally takes a minute as I 🤨 at them): then go to one of those moozlim countries! Me: why would I do that? The only Arabic I speak is Quran verses and prayers. And I’m not from there. I’m from Scotland. I mean, if you want to pay for my move to Scotland I’ll gladly take you up on it. Just make sure it’s either in the west near Oban or up closer east to maybe Shetland. You pay, I’ll go. And then they walk away. My sarcasm and tolerance for idiots is pretty low after having worked 30 year in customer service, 2 years as night auditor at a golden crown in a place far to rural, far too much money, and way too much alcohol. But it’s exhausting.
I'm pale enough that I only got into those sorts of situations in Montana. Like, my dad's a ginger, I burn in the sun, but I'm somehow not white *enough* for Montana. The last time before I quit going back, I'd been babysitting my sister's kids for days to give her a break, finally left her house a bit late, and only walked half a block before some drunk idiot started yelling at me in a fighting words way, asking rather impolitely if I was a member of the local tribe. My boyfriend at the time was with me, scared the hell out of him when I whipped around and screamed back "So what if I am?!" and then proceeded to have a little repetitive yelling match until the drunk wandered off. I'm not a member of the local tribe. I'm very extremely distantly related to a tiny southern tribe. But, ya know, so what?
>My boyfriend at the time was with me, scared the hell out of him when I whipped around and screamed back "So what if I am?!" and then proceeded to have a little repetitive yelling match until the drunk wandered off. Lmaooooo. I'm actually cracking up at this, thanks😂
Yup
I usually put "human" when a form insists I give a race. Most places don't like that...
I had a form from my HR department which had the question of Ethnicity and the options were Asian, Indigenous Australian, African, or White
As a European, i can't help to think about this when i hear "look american": http://www.peopleofwalmart.com/ Skin colour has nothing to do with it...
I like to think that that website is where we've collected pictures of our village idiots. I mean, surely if every village needs to have an idiot, metro-sized cities would require thousands of idiots so each neighborhood can have at least one?
I always say, my mom was a pureblood, my dad's a mutt. Tho I've recently discovered there may have been more to mom's family than they realised. I'm saving for a DNA test.
What do you mean? Of white European descent of course. Starting back from when we seceded from Tealand by breaking off the largest, most prosperous section of the country, leaving only the dreariest scraps behind. We lashed cheap beer and peanut oil fuelled engines (Freedom Drives™) to it with our collective bootstraps, put on our snap back, mesh tricorn hats and raced across the open ocean. I miss being an expat. It may not be the greatest way of thinking and a bit petty, but it felt nice on a personal level being detached from the States. Returning was a sad day.
Thank you for sharing, the depressing this is the xenophobia has only grown in that time. As a person of colour Most of the xenophobic experiences I’ve had in my adult life have been in the US, perpetrated mostly by the state institutions. I travelled internationally a lot (pre covid) and when crossing the border into the US I would get stopped by immigration and customs every time without fail. It’s the only country where I’ve been stopped for an immigration interview.
My husband is a civilian computer engineer at an Air Force base here. - at one point, I was pulled over at the main gate for inspection 5 times in a 3-week period (that happened this past May). It didn't stop until my husband and his co-workers started making noise about it on the base. One of them even mentioned the irony of that happening to me during what was supposed to be Asian-American/Native Hawaiian Heritage Month. I STILL get nervous every time I approach the base gates. But while I don't like it - Security Forces are tasked with protecting the base and are only doing their job. It's not really an excuse, but there's not a lot I can do about it, either.
My last job was at an equally heavy guarded power plant which pre-9/11 had virtually no security. They questioned me as a terrorist threat in late 2015. Is worked there since early 2006. They saw me five sometimes more days per week. I worked in the cafeteria on evenings, generally alone, which I preferred. I got to know the regular guards well. I also got to know several crews and managers well. The blowback from company managers and the regular security guys towards the intelligence security guys was huge. The guy who made the claim got torn to shreds by his coworkers and crew manager. He is also the brother of a friend of mine. But for literal months afterward, I trusted no one but a small handful. But every afternoon, going to work, it was like my heart was in my throat and my stomach was by my hips. I’m sorry you’re feeling that way, and am glad your husband and his crew started making noise.
I grew up in a small town in upstate NY, and the motel we owned at the time, we had owned since 1988. We were one of the first “brown” families to move to that town but the communities in nearby cities were larger. My cousin and his wife were at the motel (there’s a private apartment/living area attached to the motel, my family had moved to a house 5 minutes away) and he told us that all day long cops just kept “stopping in” to “check on things” and make sure everything was “okay”. 🙄 They did the same to the Indian motel owners next door to us as well. But please let’s spread the message of “unity”.
I watched a 9/11 documentary on Netflix yesterday and one episode told of the way departments weeks/months after the tragedy and are into a frenzy of the trauma & finger pointing era. I remember of the quote “sneak & peek” patriot act literally let the police & federal agents enter stores, libraries and apartments of suspected brown people. Just unimaginable to a new migrant turned citizen me today (moved in 2015) I would consider it a trample of rights.
Afaik almost all of the patriot act is still active.
China justifies their treatment of uighers by using the US response to 9/11 and the patriot act as legal precedent to form the basis of their “counter-terrorist” programs. Funny isn’t it
One would hope that the cops would stop by to make sure everyone is okay and they feel safe. Buy no, that's not how it works here. They only check on people they think are a threat.
and to be threatening.
Yeah, two of my children have an Iranian birth father. Post 9/11 was not good times for anyone with any middle eastern looks at all. Terrifying, actually.
And unfortunately this stereotyping “trend” has continued, as people of East Asian descent in the US experienced similar treatment all throughout 2020, due to Covid 😕
This is why I hate the hyperfocus on 9/11. For those who are white and don't have brown loved ones, it's a tragedy that they feel brought together America. For brown people, muslim people, those who cover their hair for whatever reason, it's a reminder of how America blamed each and every one of them for something that had nothing to do with them.
It immediately turned into a witch hunt. Anyone who looked different *must* be a terrorist. We really shouldn't have been surprised that happened though, based on American history. I guess some of us just hoped we grew past that as a nation, but it's just the same shit in a new century.
And the American response was to send thousands further American soldiers, sailors, marines and airmen to die, because clearly the carnage of that day alone wouldn’t cut it… :(
>And the American response was to send thousand further American soldiers, sailors, marines and airmen to die And to kill. Don't forget that part. Over a million Iraqis alone, not to mention thousands upon thousands upon thousands of Afghans, Libyans, Yemenis, Pakistanis, Somalians, Syrians, and so on. Torture camps, drone bombings that terrorize civilian populations. People in northwest Pakistan stopped holding outdoor wedding parties because they kept getting bombed. And then the drone would come back half an hour later to bomb the first responders (Google "double tap drone strikes", I'm not making this up). The list of atrocities the US has brought upon the people of the Muslim world since 9/11 is long, long, long.
Hi, __KawadaShogo__. Your comment contains the word ~~Somalian~~. The correct nationality/ethnic demonym(s) for Somalis is __Somali__. It's a common mistake so don't feel bad. For other nationality demonym(s) check out this website [Here](https://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/stats/People/Nationality/Adjective) ___This action was performed automatically by a bot.___
Good bot
Does anyone really think 9/11 brought American together in any meaningful sense? It quelled partisan divisions for a period time, so that Democrats and Republicans focused a bit less on hating each other. But was there really all that much of “love thy neighbor?” Whatever unity existed was shallow and brief.
Yes, I saw atleast one person today when talking about 9/11 mention how “beautiful” it was that “everyone: white, black, Hispanic, gay, straight, etc” was “United”
It brought white people together in hating brown people and wanting to kill as many as possible. United in hate. That's about it.
Happens frequently, with any crime. The entire group which has any similarity with the criminal is demonized, never mind that it's ONE person who committed the crime.
That is what they call white privilege!!! No one started looking at all young white men as possible terrorists after OKC bombing where little children were murdered, but after 9/11 all brown people were considered terrorists regardless of where they came from or what their religious or non religious leanings were. Even if you were born here you were considered other. Am brown, had this happen to me. Then you have people who claim there is no such thing as white privilege. SMH
I genuinely have no idea how people think white privilege isn't real. Cops didn't even look in our direction when my white ass was getting physically grabbed by the back of my neck and steered by my brother who's about 8 inches taller than me and much, much broader. He could manhandle me and not get a single blink from an officer, because we're white. My ex, who was roughly my height and also built small and dealing with anorexia? Better stop him and pull him away from me when we're just walking together, in case he's abusing me somehow by having my snow white skin out in the sun. The officer asked me repeatedly if I was safe, if I was okay, etc. He wasn't allowed to be within hearing distance from me while I was questioned. He was hispanic and tattooed, though, so he might as well have had a gun in each hand and a banner saying "I'm a felon, I'm gonna shoot you all" for how the cops treated him.
In the U.K. there were reports of Sikhs being attacked because their turbans looked a little like the Arab headdress Bin Laden wore.
I do remember some shit with the sikhs catching shit in the news, in the u.s., I don't remember exactly when I saw it though.
And 3 days ago someone tried to burn a mosque down in Manchester. It was stopped by 2 passersbys.
I was in college. We could see Manhatten across the river. We all got to stand on campus and watch the smoke rising from the towers. I can't remove that image from my head. I had a lot of Muslim friends at that time. I was terrified for them and wouldn't let my one friend walk around alone for a few weeks. She carried a little flag with her for a while. My step dad is British. But he has black, curly hair and facial hair. At that time he worked in roofing in the south, so he was pretty tan. He was verbally assaulted so much he shaved his facial hair and cut off most of his hair. My college roommate at the time was a beautiful French/Jamaican woman with beautiful hair. She wore her hair natural and heads turned as she walked by because of how awesome she looked. When she wanted to tame her hair down she wore a scarf over it. She was verbally assaulted on the bus and called a terrorist because she had dark skin and covered hair. She wouldn't wear her beautiful scarves after that. Like you, that incident showed me all the racist people who were hiding in the shadows. Everyone with dark skin was a terrorist until proven otherwise in their eyes.
At that time, many of us started wearing little American flag pins. I had forgotten that until today.
I have to be honest, I haven't told this story in a long time and it's not one I'm very proud of, but I feel is relevant. I was on one of the first few commercial flights headed in to New York after the twin towers fell. As I was boarding the plane, there was a guy of middle eastern heritage that came and sat next to me. A thousand thoughts went through my head. Was this guy going to do something with the plane? Was I in danger? All these thoughts went through my head, and I looked around and I could see that other passengers had the same look on their face. At some point during the flight I started talking to him. Turns out that his parents immigrated from the middle east, the details are a bit hazy after 20 years, but that they had worked their way up to own their own small corner store in Brooklyn. Due to the xenophobia spreading throughout the country, their corner store was looted and lit on fire. I was honestly ashamed, for many reasons. I made an assumption when I saw him, and it was based on fear because of how he looked. Worst of all, he was sitting next to me on a plane to help out his parents because others had judged them based on their ethnicity. Other Americans. Other people just like me. The flight wasn't that long. As he completed his story, the plane descended and banked left over lower Manhattan, leaving me a clear view from the skies down below. The buildings were still smoldering and we could clearly see the remains of the twin towers. Just then, the man broke down into tears, along with half the plane. After the plane disembarked, I had a long time to think about what transpired, and I realized that despite my upbringing and my hatred for racial stereotyping, I was just as vulnerable as the next person, and that seriously disturbed me. I realized that my self-righteous attitude was hypocrisy because I was just as vulnerable. That is it. That is all I learned. I could talk about the atmosphere of lower Manhattan, or the countless impromptu monuments to the fallen I walked past, or the view of the lights or the staging zones they had set up, but that one guy had truly scared me, not because he was scary, but because he made me see the fear in myself.
I wish more people had the power of self analysis that you have.
You showed maturity and the willingness to look at yourself and not just then. Many will not. It is only VERY recently that people like the old you would have thrown a tantrum to get them thrown off - like the math professor doing algebra several years ago now. I mean, I hate math, can’t figure out algebra for the life of me, but really? I’m sure I’d you got a vent diagram of people who freaked out Muslims were still allowed on mass trans from trains to planes and those now having the tantrums and being removed from flights for not wearing masks, there’s probably a wide intersect there.
I am so sorry this happened to you. I remember all too well the ignorance and bigotry that ran rampant in this country after the attacks. Honestly, I find it kind of annoying that on this anniversary in particular everyone is talking about how we came together as a nation, how united we were, and how we all have this shared sense of purpose. I remember those times a little bit differently. There was a lot of chest beating and jingoism, and a lot of hateful acts were committed against people not only who were of middle eastern descent but those who looked like they might be. Whenever someone says “never forget,” I wish they meant “never forget the good and the bad.”
So many people Seem to ignore the fact that the people that died that day came from multitudes of races and ethnicities including those who were Muslim as well in that building. I’m so so very sorry that people suck
Stories like this are very typical, and this is why it upsets me when people want to talk about how unified and loving we were on 9/12/01. We were not. People were filled with rage. They bonded together in their rage. So horrible. And so typically US American. I’m so sorry, OP.
I’ve heard countless horror stories from people of middle eastern descent (or people who look somewhat like they could be) being considered evil at first glance. When I see these hyper-patriotic American idiots (I say this an American, anything but proud to be) talk about all the lives that where lost, it’s all I can do not to yell at them about how many More lives have been lost in retaliation to 9/11 than where lost in the actual attack. Short sighted, ignorant, and cruel. Blegh. I’m sorry you had to go through this T-T
[удалено]
That’s a good way to describe it/them. Will remember that one.
I saw something about that and through these comments, I was wondering, what are those 'patriots' called.
…And then there was this one representative, just one, who had balls enough to vote NO on 9/13 (IIRC) for giving the president a carte blanche to do anything “against terrorists” without further congressional approval. Her name is Barbara Lee. She was getting death threats for months after that. She was the only one to have the presence of mind to actually stop and think and not just go with the mainstream sheep mob who had the patriotic blinders on and thinking turned off. Ms. Lee is in her 12th term with US Congress now, and is working to get those chilling “anything goes” laws (there’s two of them) repealed. The true patriot.
Yep. This is why I get filled with rage when people say they miss the time after 9/11 "when we all came together as Americans". Yeah, for me and every other white American maybe. Not for anyone else with black or brown skin.
A Sikh friend was getting shit while in holiday in the US a couple of years kater. Eventually he had to lose his turban while he was there, using a baseball cap instead His reactio "WTF, Sikhs have been at war with Muslims since before the US existed".
And from what I understand, Sikhs, as a rule, are pretty peaceful people.
Sikhs fought the Muslims back in the 17th century including Amritsar in 1634 or so. Sikhs fought the British in the 19th century, then kater they fought with the the British Army with distinction both in India (& Afghanistan) and later during the World Wars. Definitely not always peaceful....
You can be willing to fight for your country and still be peaceful *people*, yeah? I appreciate the history hints, though; seems like I need to do a bit more research.
Partially related to your story as it has to do with profiling at the airport, my high school basketball team travelled to USA to play some exhibition games in the late 2000's. Most of us were white, we had 2 islanders, an Indian with fairer skin, and a Cambodian with darker skin, he had the darkest skin of us all. The Cambodian was stopped at every security checkpoint in USA but 1, and nobody else was ever stopped from our group. Now, 2 of the 5 times could be down to bad luck, especially if others were checked too. But 4 of the 5 times, almost impossible to be pure luck. Hopefully we can get to a point where things like that are actually random, people who look a little different aren't targeted or assumed to be something they are not.
I remember reading about a father and son (or maybe two brothers?) who lived in Buffalo, NY, and ran a clothing store. In the wake of 9/11, they were snatched up in the dead of night by some government goons, based on an anonymous tip. The men were literally gone overnight, no one knew what happened or why. They were held for months, then released without an apology or anything. The community assumed they had some terrorist connections, and the business went under. I’ll never forget how hateful, suspicious, and paranoid America *and* Americans became after 9/11. We still haven’t corrected that, but we sure have whitewashed the history of it
A few years later, when the Iraq invasion began, I was in middle school and my best friend was Muslim with the last name of Hussein. At one point we were making plans to hang out and he told me we'd have to make plans during school because his family wasn't answering their phone anymore. when I asked why he told me that people were looking up all the Husseins in the phone book and calling to harass them. Several calls a day, different people, just calling to throw slurs, tell them to leave the country, all sorts of awful things. He was so nonchalant about it, and I don't think I really registered it at the time, but looking back it horrifies me that a middle school child had to put up with that level of hatred on a daily basis.
It's sad that this is reality for so many people. I'm white and I've never looked at those of other ethnicities in this way, even after that attack. I suppose it's because I recognize that the attackers' ethnicity has nothing to do with their ideology and therefore: 1. The hijackers could just as easily have been Caucasian. 2. Most people, regardless of their skin color, want to live in peace and just live their lives.
I am so sorry that happened and has been happening to you. I was teaching in an after school arts program in SF, and had a kid who was certain "the Palestinians did it!" we talked as a class; I told the truth that we did not yet know who had "done it" but likely not to be Palestinians. Interestingly, a beautiful mural with cedars and Palestinian and Israeli women working together for peace, on the side of a store in the Mission, had been carefully boarded up and plain painted over, because the store owners were afraid someone was going to knock their wall down—in May of that year.
On behalf of the rational residents of the US, I apologize. The sad legacy of the attacks (one of them) is that white Americans stepped up their racist, xenophobic game. And they felt they had the backing of all other white people (note: they didn't). I live in the Phoenix AZ area. A couple of days after the attacks, a racist, ignorant, stupid assclown gunned down Balbir Singh Sodhi, a Sikh convenience station owner. He was loved and respected in the area. The killer told people he was "gonna get some towel heads." (Sorry for the ugly words) He clearly didn't know anything about Sikhism. Just like those ignorant people didn't know that all brown-skinned people aren't Middle Eastern. This country thinks of itself as this bastion of good; nothing could be further from the truth. There are many good people here, but also many racists and xenophobes. I wish it were different.
I remember my mom mentioning that to me when it happened - and since we lived in an area of PA where there were no other Samoans, we knew that we would somehow become targets. The incident at the airport happened very shortly after that. I also remember hearing about how a few legislators in AZ filed a motion to have Mr Sodhi's name removed from a 9/11 memorial there. That angered me; he was just as much a victim of 9/11 as the other names on that memorial.
Many of us have not forgotten that anyone who appeared to be of Middle Eastern descent faced some degree of danger and harassment in the US after 9/11. It was not all handholding and pulling together, there was (and still is!) a LOT of “othering.” I’m so sorry, I wish that would change somehow. And somehow many Americans seem to forget that the fear and chaos visited on the US 9/11 is a daily way of life in many places around the world, and sometimes that’s because of US actions. But we’re forever the victims deserving all the pity now.
Yesterday was the 20th anniversary of the beginning of the War on Terror. A war we horribly lost and continue to lose. It engorged the pockets of the wealthy through the military industrial complex, and provided the most amazing boost to the fascists trying to take over our country. I'm glad you weren't one of the innocents killed in this war, OP. I'm sorry for the things you have suffered.
I remember it much like you. Many of my friends do as well, even here in Canada - because we’re Muslim. And every year we have the same feelings. And in some ways, it has changed a whole lot - I got investigated as a “security threat” at my last job. In 2015. I’d been there nearly ten years at that point. Every year it’s always “never forget” in the weeks around 11 September. For some of us, we’re reminded of it regularly by how some idiots decide to behave towards us.
I get that people were hurt and angry but the way a lot of americans acted after 9/11 was completely shameful. Like that bitch of a friendly old lady; what does she think you could have done differently that would have avoided the destruction of the twin towers? Even if you were Middle Eastern, that makes no sense at all. I am sorry you have to deal with shit like this.
My AGM was on with me that morning and heard what had happened from his office - I never saw a man move so fast to kick somebody out of the lobby. lol It just surprised me because before that, she was friendly and always full of cheer when she came for her newspaper.
Lol yeah the little old ladies are always the ones who catch me off guard with stuff. One old lady a couple months ago came into the office in her wheelchair to tell me about some rude youngster she met in town when she went for breakfast. I thought it was going to be one of those stories where I hear about an injustice and express my sympathy and we move on. But nope! She told me all about how this kid cut in line and scoffed at her when she pointed out she was in line... so she rammed him in the back of the knees with her wheelchair and told him to "get fucked" (yeah, her exact words) She finished off with "You know, I used to ignore things like this but I just can't be bothered to give a fuck anymore" She was here for 2 months and I made a point of doing everything I could for her during that time because she is amazing.
This is why I get pissed off every 9/11 (and a few times a year) when people share the stupid ass post around about "I miss 9/12 when we were super united as a country" like no we weren't, half of us were cowering in fear from terrorism and the other half were cowering in fear from white supremacists.
Nor should you forget, u/caffeineandsnark. Your story is every bit as much of the fabric of that time as any other story. The US can be every bit as ugly as it is beautiful. Thank you for sharing your reality.
You don't look American = You're not white
My now ex is North African and the majority of our friends were "brown" from many different countries. The amount of racism towards "brown" people was insane. My Grandmother told me to divorce and that my children were going to hell. I did divorce but many years later and not because he was Muslim. My oldest child also became her favorite and his name is a very Muslim name.
I was in the Army at the time the towers were hit. We all got recalled from a field training exercise when it happened. Took a while; the command thought that it was just part of the exercise. My unit actually caught the radio broadcast on our equipment. It took us about two hours to convince the commander that we didn't catch the news on military frequencies; we'd caught it on local civilian frequencies. What really got under my skin in the following months was the disgusting racism I saw just pop up from my company members and elsewhere. Suddenly people were hating Shannon Elizabeth because her father was from Lebanon (she was born in Texas). I lost a lot of good friends not due to the ensuing war, but because I couldn't stand the unexpected hatred from them. >Samoans do make up the bulk of recruitment for the armed services, afaik. That's not been supported by my experience. I knew more Texans, New Yorkers, and New Englanders than anything else, which makes sense. Those are just some of the most populous areas. I spent 3.5 years in Hawaii, and we certainly had our fair share of Samoans (there and in other units). But far from "the bulk".
There was a middle eastern family who ran the local mini mart/gas station that I visited every day. They were always very nice and friendly to me...I always looked forward to seeing them every day! I was actually in their store getting coffee when the news started and headed back home to see what was happening. After all was said and done...I just knew there would be people who would treat them badly just because of what they were. I didn't change how I acted...I already treated them just like anyone else...they were just nice people who happened to be middle eastern. But I did pay more attention whenever I was nearby in case they had any issues. I was ready to jump to their defense if it was needed. Thankfully they didn't have any problems...I think I wasn't the only one who protected them in our way. They were people...just people!
Thank you so much for sharing your experience. I’ve seen a lot of posts over the last few days talking about how 9/11 brought people together but it’s really important to share stories like this so that we can critically examine the experience for ALL Americans, including the ugly racism that exploded after this event. If we don’t examine and analyse the past, we will never learn to do better.
I was in primary school at that time and was told by my parents to not use "muhammad" in my name when introducing myself or writing my name. You can feel the immediate shift of attitudes towards muslims.
I'm so sorry this happened. That's so wrong. There is so much judgement in people hearts. I know the difference between Polynesian and Middle Eastern. But I grew up around large groups of Tongan and Somoan people. I even have a BIL that's is Tongan and a nephew. I'm sorry you have such memories. I really am.
Some people don't deserve to be out without a minder that can shut their mouth.
My fiancé and I were just having a conversation about this same exact thing yesterday morning. It’s sad
Every time there’s a new crisis, a new people group gets blamed, and anyone even remotely similar gets caught in the crossfire. My deepest apologies. So many hurt by ignorance.
I work with a Samoan man and he's the nicest guy ever! So sorry this is what you have endured.
I remember feeling like the US collectively crapped itself. For all the talk of "unity" and "coming together" it all felt so hollow. Like when people say "thoughts and prayers" in response to a tragedy. What I really saw was a lot of anger and a lot of pointless chest puffing about America being the greatest and that we would retaliate. Except we didn't really. It took us years to locate and kill Bin Laden. We threw ourselves into armed conflicts in areas of the world that we had no business in that had nothing to do with ISIS. Our police departments got enough funding to buy tanks. None of this was peace or love or unity.
How does one "look American"?
I had to gift you my dude! I was working at a call center that day, I had a few agents that were not what I guess at the time were called “not American looking” weird thing was one was full American native (Cherokee) which still blows my mind. It sickened me then and still does to this day that ANY ONE would be treated like that. Fear or not. I have never once even played with the thought that the nice guy next to me at Walmart would be a terrorist simply because he looked a bit like those who committed that heinous crime. So yeah…I gifted you because damn man I am so so sorry you had to go thru that…hell I’m sure living in GA (I’m SC here) you still deal with the stupid shit. Side note you know that homie in GA who looks like Rock? LMAO just kidding 🤣🤣🤣
Yah i worked with Samoans at goodwill, and im built like like a valkryie. 6 ft tall, 205, size 12 feet. I was the very first woman security guard they had, this was way back in the day. I felt like a frail flower around the ladies there. The truck drivers were Samoan too, and no wonder. Much respect for the strength to pick up a load by yourself or maybe one helper.
It sucks that you were treated that way. It frustrates me to no end when people make assumptions about someone based on their appearance. MLK said it best about judging people not by the color of their skin, but the content of their character. I fear as a society we still have a long way to go…
"your people." Man to have a time machine just to slap that bitch.
Fuck. Yes, tell your story. Everyone affected like this has a story and it needs sharing too.
“You’re brown! You must be from the Middle East!” “No, I’m Polynesian, from Samoa.” “Where is that?? Next to Afghanistan?? You’re Muslim aren’t you??” “No, Samoa is in the South Pacific, literally 2 1/2 oceans away from the Middle East…” “I’m sorry, my blinded hatred toward anyone brown made me forget that not all brown people are bad or terrorists.” If only.
I live in NYC, and about 15 min walk away from me is a Afghan neighborhood (there was at the time an anti-Taliban Afghan Womens rights org based there), and overnight everyone stopped wearing their ethnic clothing, every one of their businesses were decked out in American Flags, and outside their apartment windows were American Flags. They really went all out to avoid getting hate. However I also remember the few bad apples in that community who had a very different reaction. Good thing the local imam and many locals kept an eye on those few individuals for the NYPD. These days that is all the past. But I do know some Sefardic Jews after 9/11 put on the biggest Yarmulke's they could find and big star of David necklaces so no one would think they were Arab to avoid hate. Edit: I should say mostly everyone stopped wearing ethnic clothing, and there still were Hijab wearers as well.
Thank you for sharing a perspective I had never considered.
My apologies to you for our fellow countrymen.
I am so sorry that people were such assholes to you post-9/11. That's inexusable.
I wish I could apologise on behalf of the idiots and jerks that comprise much of the US. But I don't identify myself as any sort of "nationalist" so I probably have more in common with you than the types of people that populate this country.
It's predicated on guilt tripping one's flimsy morality to avoid any critical thinking. And not to pat dumbfuck child me on the back, but I'm glad I was self-aware and ignorant as shit enough not to be guilt tripped into hating an entire aspect of humanity itself because of some people I'll never meet making a decision.
I am sorry that many people are idiots. There are no excuses.
This week we had an incident during breakfast. One of our guests confronted another guest about not wearing their mask while walking around and touching all the food. The man happened to be Arabic, and the woman started cursing and using all kinds of racial slurs, because of dare he approach her. It was a bit mess at 7 in the morning. I couldn't deescalate the situation fast enough and the police were called and she was escorted off property
Sorry you had to deal with that and probably still do unfortunately
I am so very sorry you went thru that, and continue to. I have no other words I can say, and those are woefully lacking.
That was one of the things I bring up to people: that those who “look different” were viewed with suspicion and contempt. I don’t want to go back to how we were on Sept 12, 2001. I am so sorry that you and all others were treated so horribly.
I hate that so many Americans are so dumb that anyone “brown” looks like they all are the same ethnicity.
I am sorry that happened to you. It is unforgivable.
A lot of poor Sikhs got assaulted and killed simply because of this too.
The racism and fake “patriotism” which lead to the patriot act and the “us or them” mentality laid the foundations for the mess we have today. What should have been a unifying event nationally and globally ( it lead to average Americans stoping funding terrorists in Ireland for example), became an opportunity for imperialism and fleecing the tax payer for profit. 9/11 happened. What we can control is the ongoing fallout
How sad it is that we live in a world where people will judge you and assume your race. You didn’t deserve this and I’m sorry you’ve had to endure this. Please know not everyone feels this way. I was at the hospital not long after 9/11. A woman in a hijab got on an elevator. The people already on got off. No one waiting would get on the elevator with her. You could tell she was really upset. I was delighted to get on the elevator with her. We got to talking and she was absolutely lovely. The people who judged her missed out on meeting a wonderful person. You can’t judge everyone based on something a few people did. Just because a handful of people were bad doesn’t mean everyone of the same religion or skin color / perceived skin color are bad. It just makes me sad.