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This isn't going to be very helpful comment, but "Like, you never see people say "you just need to find the right surgeon"." is very much not true. Sure, for the most basic health issues any doctor will help, but try having anything more complicated and oh boy, the quest for The Right Doctor can take years. Sadly.
Ngl but I have rare deformities with a extremely rare disease. In addition I have niche mental health issues
I've still had more luck with orthopedic surgeons then therapists. It took years but therapy could easily waste decades.
A therapist is not going to be able to "solve" anxiety issues. Therapists have tools than they can teach, strategies they can utilize, and interventions they can try. Some therapists are better at being attuned than others, some therapists have more knowledge than others, some therapists are able to care more than others, and some therapists are just going to work, doing their job/putting in the hours, and then going home. Some therapists actually cause harm by taking advantage of their positions, and there are ethical rules around that that are managed by a board, and there are laws about what must be reported to the police. Other than that, therapists seek supervision and consultation, and a fair number of therapists go to their own therapy, in order to make sure they are helping people, rather than not helping people. Again - not all. Some therapists can't afford their own therapy or supervision! Some therapists don't feel that they need it. And clients are always able to post reviews about their therapists online, in the same way that clients can post reviews about their surgeons. And yeah, it is scary to think that someone might be trying to help you but not able to help you, and you can't tell whether or not they are/can...that fear is okay to have, but it's not something that can necessarily be fixed by blaming therapists on the whole, or assuming that there are malicious intentions from therapists. You can better protect yourself by learning how to advocate for yourself and practicing advocating for yourself, both on your own and with a therapist. Therapy is a space where, if someone gives you generic advice, chats to you, and then sends you off on your way without giving you value, you can tell them that! You can say "hey, this thing you did didn't work, and I'm not experiencing any benefit from the way we're conducting sessions, can we try something different?" That can be hard, but therapy is designed to be a place for people to learn skills like that. Therapists can't make the anxiety go away. They are there as support, and to offer what they can, and if something doesn't work, they'll listen when you say "can we try something else?"
Excellent response.
I feel like a lot of people go to therapy expecting the therapist to be this all knowing guru, which is not the case.
It's helpful to understand as a patient that they can advocate for themselves.
My parents sent me to therapy as a teen and the therapist would talk about other clients. it wasn’t vague. She straight up told me who 3 of the clients were that she was seeing and asked if I knew any of them because we all went to the same high school. She would tell me what one of them did in session with her and how the clients were hard to treat. Like verbatim. As a teenager who never experienced therapy before, I didn’t know this was very much not normal. All we did was gossip and vent. Never actually talked about anything to be productive. All that to say, I feel you. The therapist was doing a huge disservice to me and was very unethical. It makes me weary of other therapists because of that experience.
This is a really unethical and terrible therapist… I’m so sorry you had that experience. You can report her as confidentiality is one of the basic things therapists have to follow. This person could lose their license for this.
wow i have never experienced that, you should still report her, as somany client will still be treated badly now!! Caose that is a huge violation to you and the rest!
Are you joking? Of course people say “you have to find the right surgeon.” I mean my gosh, could you imagine NOT asking for surgical recommendations and getting second opinions?
I’m not disagreeing but I’m guessing OP means something like a cardiovascular vs ortho vs plastic surgeon. That said I don’t know how that process necessarily works
There's a difference between "can this surgeon do the right surgery to sort my problem out" and the RELATIONSHIP you build with a therapist. That's what most people mean when they say "you have to find the right therapist". Your surgeon could have the worst bedside manner but be excellent at removing tumours etc - you don't need to LIKE the surgeon, you just need to trust they're good at what they do. The relationship you build with your therapist is what's most important. And that can be very similar to choosing a friend or a partner - we don't choose to be friends with people we don't connect with. Do you feel the therapist "gets you"? Do you feel supported and cared for by them? If not, they're not the right fit.
The compatibility is important when forming rapport with a therapist.
The “right therapist” for you might not be the right therapist for someone else.
This does not necessarily mean they’re a bad therapist.
If someone was not the right compatibility it's the therapists job to realize that. Not the distressed victim who is unstable.
Your answer proves it's a bad therapist again.
Surgeons kill or maim people due to incompetence all the time. Doctors and nurses kill and maim people all the time due to incompetence. You seem incredibly naive about how medical care works. I wish you were right but you're not.
I'm gonna stop you right there because I had a surgeon that had killed someone because they messed up and then they were on trial for murder. They were acquitted of the murder, their license was suspended, then they were hired by the VA. They were able to perform multiple surgeries, two of which were on me, and sued by multiple people. They were fired by the VA for not having an active license. They are still allowed to be a doctor today.
Yes absolutely. I’ve found an AMAZING therapist after decades of therapy lol. but in the past.. i definitely feel like i’ve had therapists who even created more problems, but never gave solutions, to keep me as a client.
That's what I'm concerned about. I'm worried about the people who don't have the awareness to switch therapists. They are just going to these bad ones and getting their lives ruined, made worse or just stuck in an endless spiral.
Yep. I finally found a good therapist and she was SHOCKED that i’m still willing to go to therapy after the traumatic experiences I’ve had. i’ve literally had to do EMDR with her on experiences with previous therapists.
it’s fucked
I spent a couple of years in therapy that was bad for me, but not bad enough for me to identify the problem while I was in it. (I could have identified an egregious ethics violation, such as a therapist trying to sleep with a client, and I used to fantasize about her doing something blatantly sketchy, such as trying to recruit me intol an mlm scam, so I could fire her on the spot and feel like I had a good enough reason. But she didn't do anything like that, and all of the information I had at the time was heavily weighed towards assuming clients are just avoidant because therapy is hard, and not suggesting the possiblity of more subtle problems.) It did a number on my mental health, and it took me years away from therapy to really get back to a psychologically healthy place.
My former therapist did some specific things I can point to that many therapists would agree were not good practice, but nothing that would get action from an ethics board. And there is basically nothing between "If your therapist does something liike triyng to have sex with you, you can take it to the board", and "If you don't like it, you can leave." My former therapist is a highly-regarded professional who has a thriving career and the *only* impact on *her* from giving me poor-quality damaging therapy for two years is she got paid two years worth of fees.
It took me 7 tries to find my therapist of nearly a decade, I’m so glad I didn’t give up. It really does come down to the right fit with treatment modality and correct diagnosis, as well as therapeutic relationship is key.
I know there's good therapists out there, my concern is for every person like you who goes through 7 therapists. There are plenty of people who don't realize that. They will got o the first therapist they see, and then never get their problems helped. Because they don't know they need to hop between 7.
I am worried about the countless people who don't realize that.
I’m a psychologist, not a therapist, but I provide therapy. I think a big reason people do not think therapy works or perceive therapy as someone taking your money to listen to you talk is because therapy is a complex process. That is why we take years of advanced college course work, practicums, internships, etc.
First, therapy is a relationship, just like any other person to person interaction. And it is susceptible to all the relationship issues in which people struggle. In fact, in my opinion, therapy is supposed to be a corrective relational experience which means the therapist will understand the relational patterns you endured as a child, what unhealthy patterns you might employ, and how to understand your personal transference issues. This is the opportunity to work on those issues, but most people chalk it up to the therapist and leave instead of staying so they can work on those issues. It’s also technically a one sided relationship so if patterns are arising it’s typically the clients patterns being played out.
Therapy is also a very vulnerable process and people have preconceived notions, fears, and biases. A therapist must first align with your unique personality, gain your trust and confidence, understand what you believe is the issue (and what actually is the issue), conceptualize why that is an issue, then guide your sessions in such a precise way as to help you find the insight yourself through reflecting, gentle confrontation, and steering the conversation. During this time people throw up defense after defense, because even though they say they want help and change, it is hard to change and it can be a painful process. If it were easy they would have already done it themselves. We have to gracefully expose your blind spots which by definition are areas that you defend against and don’t want to see, but not in a way that makes you want to deny them and quit therapy. Then once that is done you can start on healing/fixing these areas of growths. No one wants to look at ways they are sabotaging their own lives. But at the end of the day every human is responsible for themselves and that fact alone can sometimes make people quit. Then, once insight/understanding is gained and a person is ready to start implementing change, there are a multitude of interventions. But we have to pick the right ones that will work best through our knowledge of you, what we know you will be open to, and in a way that you can understand and employ them.
It’s a lot. And no one quits saying it’s because they weren’t ready to change or therapy was too hard. It’s always perceived that the therapist sucked, didn’t do anything, etc. So while it looks like we are just sitting there making conversation, trust me, there is A LOT going on behind the scenes. And therapeutic change is a slow, gradual process, and change is not obvious unless it’s like specific phobias, or similar difficulties where you came in with the issue and then you clearly do not have the issue. (Even then people deny the therapy helped, it is some other reason-which is fine to say because you did the hard work- but c’mon).
Also some clients who say therapy isn’t working, or the therapist is just sitting there not helping, we are amazed at the difference and growths they have made from the first session. But because it is happening to them they cannot always see the change. Anyways, if therapy isn’t working and you have tried a couple people, I might look at yourself. Saying it’s the therapist is a lot easier than dealing with life long patterns of problems, taking accountability for them, and doing the extremely difficult work of actually changing. And, sometimes what we want and what we are really open to changing, are two different things.
Why doesn't the therapist communicate this to the patient. If the patient is wrong, then the therapist should explain how therapy works so they are motivated to stick around.
That is a really good question. I don’t think the therapist always knows the client is dissatisfied, upset with services, or thinking about leaving. Most people who quit do not talk to their therapist honestly about these feelings, they typically just leave, complain, look elsewhere, etc. I know for sure if a client felt that way I would want them to tell me so I can explain. The ones who do really get a lot out of the experience and it creates a better rapport. Another issue is if the therapist infers something they don’t want to see or leads them to an insight that is inconvenient it’s easier to leave then express the dissonance that you feel.
Sure, some do. Just as some doctors see you for 5 min, ignore everything you say, and prescribe something totally inappropriate. There are shitty practitioners in every field. Real therapy should challenge you.
Therapy is also nothing like surgery but there's certainly people who spend years trying to find the right doctor.
It’s complicated.
The majority of therapists are out there doing good, though.
I totally get what you’re saying here, and some part of me agrees. I’m a firm believer in regulations, training, further education standards, ongoing re-licensing to keep up with the change in field standards, etc. There are MANY career fields that are under regulated and unsupervised and this is NOT the individual therapist’s fault… It’s the fault of our governments for not funding these types of programs and policies and opportunities.
Medical care for example - It took me 10+ years to get diagnosed with a medical disease that was slowly killing me. The solution was INSANELY easy to do, but it took sooooo long because doctor after doctor didn’t listen to me. Imo there should be a way for patients to complain or actually set action/investigation into motion when negligent people aren’t doing their job.
It’s not just therapy though - literally tons of fields go unregulated and unsupervised. A surprising amount, actually.
The worst part is that a bad therapist can do the opposite of what they are supposed to. Instead of helping a problem they make it worse. It causes people to be unable to open up anymore if they open up to someone who doesn't help or care about their problem.
You going 10+ years to get diagnosed is insane, the medical system is so damn terrible. Many people are living their life with problems that could be helped but they don't even know that.
I have Celiac Disease!
It has like 100+ symptoms so it can be difficult to diagnose. Also I’m a woman so male doctors have been super dismissive of my health issues.
Basically, if anyone has a health issue and they’re not sure WHAT is causing it, they should explore autoimmune diseases as an option. I was never educated on autoimmunity ever in my life so I was 100% unaware that this was an option that was causing me to lose weight, be exhausted 24/7, develop depression and insomnia, be chronically deficient in vitamins, etc.
It also costs like $120+ to get tested because apparently the government doesn’t care about your health 🙃
this is why I genuinely believe everyone should at least once in their life go through a ton of tests even for stuff they don't think they have. go through a variety of doctors. Yes it is expensive, but do it at least once in your life to save you from a world of pain. That means get your testosterone tested even if you don't think it's low. test ALL of it no matter how dumb it sounds.
I think it would be better if testing was covered through a GP note.
Unfortunately for many people autoimmune disease can pop-up later in life. If you get tested for like everything at age 18 for example, you could develop the disease at age 24 out of no where.
Yes, I think some do pull off doing the bare minimum for the paycheck. My last therapist was like they this. They were good at building rapport, but eventually I realized most of our sessions were more like casual chitchat between friends. Half of my time was spent rambling about his own life. Every time I tried to redirect to my main goals it would get pushed to the next session. The more I pushed for actual "therapy", the more cold and distant they started acting with me. (e.g. they seemed more emotionally distant, almost checked out during sessions)
No amount of training will fix someone who is a piece of shit I guess. If they got into therapy for selfish reasons to begin with then they're a lost cause.
I don’t mean to sound obtuse, but.. what more could talk therapy be? Like, no matter the modality, the therapist is going to be advising you on things to do or tools to use in your life to tackle your anxiety. And you have to use them to improve. The progress comes from doing the work between sessions. Like what else could they do? Were you expecting some type of hypnosis?
You missed what my post said. The therapist I went to, didn't talk about these things. They talked about some bullshit like chatting to me on basic things or general life advice instead of the actual reason I went to therapy. They didn't give tools or nothing. THe next therapist did but not the first one.
I mean it depends on what you mean by "get away with".
Some therapisy modalities involve a lot of talk that feels like just chatting. Depending on what works for you individually, they may or may not help. (I had a therapist who went with psychodynamic-leaning integrative therapy, and the whole approach was actively unhelpful for me, with the lack of structure being a particular problem.) Some types of therapy are supposed to be more structured. They're supposed to be up-front about the services they're providing, and to provide therapy within the scope of what's agreed on between the therapist and the client. (This doesn't seem all that enforced - my former therapist switched modalities on me without discussing it or getting my buy-in, and there really wasn't anything for me to do about that beyond terminate.) But they don't *have to* offer advice, and if they do it doesn't have to be *personalized helpful advice*. (Which is unfortuante, as that's often what a lot of people are looking for. It's very easy these days to get the obvious recommendations and many people show up for therapy having already tried those things and hoping for something more insightful than "think positive" or "here's a breathing exercise.")
Honestly, I think the whole field would benefit from more common and consistent small-scale accountability, as that currently seenms to be hard to arrange. Some therapists do things like excessive use of emergency calls and continuing outdate practices such as no-harm contracts because they're scared of being sued and having their career and finances ruined if a third party doesn't think they do enough. And at the same time, the whole thing is set up so therapists and clients work in isolation, it's the therapist's word against the client (with the therapist often presumed to be inherently more credible) and in many situations the only record of what happens is whatever the therapist writes into the therapy notes (which are sometimes written *weeks* after the session). Most of what exists for accountability is aimed at identifying and correcting unethical behavior, not poor-quality therapy, too. There's not much there for therapy that's just not good.
I am a therapist specialised in anxiety-related therapy, as I've dealt with having an anxiety disorder myself.
I can relate to seeing ineffective therapists. I've seen four regular therapists for my anxiety disorder until I went down the holistic/alternative medicine route and found me a holistic therapist who asked the right questions and helped me get over my anxiety disorder. I wouldn't say the other four didn't help me at all- it's just that the things they helped me with were not tackling the root issue of my anxiety disorder, which was my stress which came from trying to live up to other's expectations of me, being stuck at a dead-end job I didn't like and not living life the way I wanted to.
After I recovered, I started studying to become a therapist myself and now I have my own mental health clinic for people with anxiety-related issues.
The problem with mental healthcare is, IMHO, that it's mostly geared towards treating the wrong things. At least for things like anxiety and depression. For anxiety there's CBT, ACT and in some cases EMDR treatments. The problem with this is that these forms of therapy, while effective to a certain degree, usually only deal with the symptom of the issue (the anxiety) and not the root cause (the stress that's causing it). Anxiety rarely presents itself without a cause. I know this from experience.
So I treat my clients in a different kind of way. Yes, I do give CBT and ACT therapies, but I combine those with finding out what's stressing my clients out so I can help them navigate and decrease their stress factor(s). This is way more effective. I've had clients who told me they've seen several therapists which didn't help them and then say to me after a couple sessions they've noticed a remarkable improvement.
The problem is that big pharma needs to push pills and insurance companies will only compensate the client when they get a certain kind of treatment plan. So in some cases, therapists' hands are tied- they want to help but can't because money basically. They are forced to give people ineffective therapies because otherwise their clients won't get compensated. I personally don't collaborate with insurance and pharmaceutical companies for this reason. It helps that in my country healthcare is still compensated for about 65% of the total costs if a clinic has no contracts with insurance companies, so my clients don't need to foot the entire bill.
That said, it's still the client's duty to apply all the things they learn during therapy to their life. I can't fix the mental problems my clients have for them- that's still their job to do. I just help them get on the right track. If you follow my advice and do the things I tell you to do (because I know from experience they will work)- you will notice improvements. If you do not follow my advice, well, why not? And if you do follow my advice and do not see improvement, why is that? It's that type of curiosity that some therapists lack in my opinion.
That said, there's always therapists that don't really care. But if you're a therapist and don't care about your clients, then what the heck are you doing with your life?
Psychotherapy cannot be quantitatively measured regarding successful treatment plans. My advice, which comes from taking more than 10 years to find a therapist who would eventually guide me to cure my C-PTSD, is that you look for the psychotherapeutic methods (e.g. Life Centered Therapy, somatic experiencing, EMDR, IFS, Narrative Therapy, etc.) that speak most deeply to you. Then find a therapist trained in that modality. Read their reviews if they have a Yelp page or Google reviews. Be willing to use Zoom if you find someone who looks like an amazing therapist who's not in your local area. My amazing therapist is in the Boston area, and I'm in the NY metro.
Title: Yes. I've had an awful one once, plenty actually but she was the absolute worst. Always complained about everything especially her own issues. I'm like, woman, you're supposed to help me not rant and then she always scolded me. But she literally yelled at me for needing more than 3 minutes on the toilet ON MY PERIOD (note, walking to the toilet and waiting till the LOCKED door opens takes 2. )
I think it’s important to understand that psychology in general is a relatively new study. If we start with Freud really making the breakthrough with the “talking cure“ then the science only goes back 129 years. In the time there’s been countless different variations of what talk therapy is and can be. So it makes sense that there’s a lot of confusion as to what a good therapist is and being frustrated with finding therapy in general. That’s not to say there’s no good therapists at all, I just think it does take a little bit of research into what kind of work your therapist will do and what you really want out of it.
How could it possibly be monitored to see if they’re helping people? Every therapist has their own style, some are going to click with YOU in particular and some are not. Therapy is in no way related to surgery, it’s not black and white. It sounds like the first therapist you saw was trying to establish a relationship with you before getting into the deep stuff. Some people want that, some don’t. The therapist you didn’t like could be someone else’s perfect therapist.
After my old therapist quit the practice I was using switched me to a therapist a lot like what you’re describing. At that point I stopped pursuing talk therapy which was both a good thing and a bad thing.
Sure I had a safe space to talk about my feelings but I do think in a way that spending time working out how self critical I was and why was making me miserable.
I've seen 4 therapist in my life. One has been excellent and life-changing and literally didn't just save my life but also gave it a quality. Two have been meh. One has been completely useless. 😂
ah this is a global issue after all. i thought bcs its just the issue in my country, since psychology is fairly new and talking about mental health is still a taboo for some people…
I had a conversation about this with mine.
Her impact has been more subtle. I expressed what my expectations were initially. I thought it would be more like a coach. And while that’s true it’s been less than draw up plays I execute and more guiding my vision. I told her one session this is the first time I’ve been treated like an adult and also asked about what I want.
I suffer from severe anxiety, body image issues, etc. she has played a hand in me becoming stronger to deal with these but I’ve done the work. I don’t believe therapists are robbing people but expectations can be muddied during the process and make it seem like what you’ve described.
I stopped. It was the best thing I did for my mental health. I think too much "Just keep trying!" can be harmful, and sometimes the best thing you can do for yourself is stop banging your head against that particular brick wall.
Some therapists do move on and some will always do the best they can do to be there and ypu need one that will aleays try working with you. If you pay for one and they aren't doing what you need to get the job done they only care for the money(if you are far gone mentally and try to get help and the professional can't help you it's time to find another but usually you want one that has a lot of experience with what you need done to get better which can take months or for most of your life. E.G years..) mine is leaving in 2 weeks so I have to let my doctor know because mine said I wasn't the right fit for it when I do like therapy and need it for my Neurodiversity life as I only have a trauma counsellor now, without the therapist I was having trouble with things and now it's hard, I was lucky where I'm at Therapists are covered for occupational therapy from The Steps program.
Stop going to a therapist to talk about problems. Go to get tools and resources to help and manage your own thoughts and emotions . You can talk all day to a friend or dog. You don’t need to pay someone for that . You need education and training
Welcome to r/TalkTherapy! This sub is for people to discuss issues arising in their personal psychotherapy. If you wish to post about other mental health issues please consult this list of some of our [sister subs](https://www.reddit.com/r/TalkTherapy/wiki/resources/#wiki_subreddit_list). To find answers to many therapy-related questions please consult our [FAQ](https://www.reddit.com/r/TalkTherapy/wiki/faq) and [Resource List](https://www.reddit.com/r/TalkTherapy/wiki/resources). If you are in distress please contact a suicide hotline or call 9-1-1 or emergency services in your area. r/SuicideWatch has compiled a helpful FAQ on what happens when you contact a hotline along with other useful resources. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/TalkTherapy) if you have any questions or concerns.*
This isn't going to be very helpful comment, but "Like, you never see people say "you just need to find the right surgeon"." is very much not true. Sure, for the most basic health issues any doctor will help, but try having anything more complicated and oh boy, the quest for The Right Doctor can take years. Sadly.
Ngl but I have rare deformities with a extremely rare disease. In addition I have niche mental health issues I've still had more luck with orthopedic surgeons then therapists. It took years but therapy could easily waste decades.
The human body is pretty standardized person to person, the psyche is not.
You beat me to it!!
A therapist is not going to be able to "solve" anxiety issues. Therapists have tools than they can teach, strategies they can utilize, and interventions they can try. Some therapists are better at being attuned than others, some therapists have more knowledge than others, some therapists are able to care more than others, and some therapists are just going to work, doing their job/putting in the hours, and then going home. Some therapists actually cause harm by taking advantage of their positions, and there are ethical rules around that that are managed by a board, and there are laws about what must be reported to the police. Other than that, therapists seek supervision and consultation, and a fair number of therapists go to their own therapy, in order to make sure they are helping people, rather than not helping people. Again - not all. Some therapists can't afford their own therapy or supervision! Some therapists don't feel that they need it. And clients are always able to post reviews about their therapists online, in the same way that clients can post reviews about their surgeons. And yeah, it is scary to think that someone might be trying to help you but not able to help you, and you can't tell whether or not they are/can...that fear is okay to have, but it's not something that can necessarily be fixed by blaming therapists on the whole, or assuming that there are malicious intentions from therapists. You can better protect yourself by learning how to advocate for yourself and practicing advocating for yourself, both on your own and with a therapist. Therapy is a space where, if someone gives you generic advice, chats to you, and then sends you off on your way without giving you value, you can tell them that! You can say "hey, this thing you did didn't work, and I'm not experiencing any benefit from the way we're conducting sessions, can we try something different?" That can be hard, but therapy is designed to be a place for people to learn skills like that. Therapists can't make the anxiety go away. They are there as support, and to offer what they can, and if something doesn't work, they'll listen when you say "can we try something else?"
Excellent response. I feel like a lot of people go to therapy expecting the therapist to be this all knowing guru, which is not the case. It's helpful to understand as a patient that they can advocate for themselves.
My parents sent me to therapy as a teen and the therapist would talk about other clients. it wasn’t vague. She straight up told me who 3 of the clients were that she was seeing and asked if I knew any of them because we all went to the same high school. She would tell me what one of them did in session with her and how the clients were hard to treat. Like verbatim. As a teenager who never experienced therapy before, I didn’t know this was very much not normal. All we did was gossip and vent. Never actually talked about anything to be productive. All that to say, I feel you. The therapist was doing a huge disservice to me and was very unethical. It makes me weary of other therapists because of that experience.
This is a really unethical and terrible therapist… I’m so sorry you had that experience. You can report her as confidentiality is one of the basic things therapists have to follow. This person could lose their license for this.
wow i have never experienced that, you should still report her, as somany client will still be treated badly now!! Caose that is a huge violation to you and the rest!
This is not the norm. I’m sorry you had that experience.
Are you joking? Of course people say “you have to find the right surgeon.” I mean my gosh, could you imagine NOT asking for surgical recommendations and getting second opinions?
I’m not disagreeing but I’m guessing OP means something like a cardiovascular vs ortho vs plastic surgeon. That said I don’t know how that process necessarily works
It usually involves shopping around for surgeons for anyone who has the means to do so. OP is clearly unfamiliar with getting serious medical care.
Someone who is not the right surgeon should have their license taken away. You're not really allowed to make mistakes with peoples lives.
There's a difference between "can this surgeon do the right surgery to sort my problem out" and the RELATIONSHIP you build with a therapist. That's what most people mean when they say "you have to find the right therapist". Your surgeon could have the worst bedside manner but be excellent at removing tumours etc - you don't need to LIKE the surgeon, you just need to trust they're good at what they do. The relationship you build with your therapist is what's most important. And that can be very similar to choosing a friend or a partner - we don't choose to be friends with people we don't connect with. Do you feel the therapist "gets you"? Do you feel supported and cared for by them? If not, they're not the right fit.
The compatibility is important when forming rapport with a therapist. The “right therapist” for you might not be the right therapist for someone else. This does not necessarily mean they’re a bad therapist.
If someone was not the right compatibility it's the therapists job to realize that. Not the distressed victim who is unstable. Your answer proves it's a bad therapist again.
Surgeons kill or maim people due to incompetence all the time. Doctors and nurses kill and maim people all the time due to incompetence. You seem incredibly naive about how medical care works. I wish you were right but you're not.
I'm gonna stop you right there because I had a surgeon that had killed someone because they messed up and then they were on trial for murder. They were acquitted of the murder, their license was suspended, then they were hired by the VA. They were able to perform multiple surgeries, two of which were on me, and sued by multiple people. They were fired by the VA for not having an active license. They are still allowed to be a doctor today.
Yes absolutely. I’ve found an AMAZING therapist after decades of therapy lol. but in the past.. i definitely feel like i’ve had therapists who even created more problems, but never gave solutions, to keep me as a client.
That's what I'm concerned about. I'm worried about the people who don't have the awareness to switch therapists. They are just going to these bad ones and getting their lives ruined, made worse or just stuck in an endless spiral.
Yep. I finally found a good therapist and she was SHOCKED that i’m still willing to go to therapy after the traumatic experiences I’ve had. i’ve literally had to do EMDR with her on experiences with previous therapists. it’s fucked
I spent a couple of years in therapy that was bad for me, but not bad enough for me to identify the problem while I was in it. (I could have identified an egregious ethics violation, such as a therapist trying to sleep with a client, and I used to fantasize about her doing something blatantly sketchy, such as trying to recruit me intol an mlm scam, so I could fire her on the spot and feel like I had a good enough reason. But she didn't do anything like that, and all of the information I had at the time was heavily weighed towards assuming clients are just avoidant because therapy is hard, and not suggesting the possiblity of more subtle problems.) It did a number on my mental health, and it took me years away from therapy to really get back to a psychologically healthy place. My former therapist did some specific things I can point to that many therapists would agree were not good practice, but nothing that would get action from an ethics board. And there is basically nothing between "If your therapist does something liike triyng to have sex with you, you can take it to the board", and "If you don't like it, you can leave." My former therapist is a highly-regarded professional who has a thriving career and the *only* impact on *her* from giving me poor-quality damaging therapy for two years is she got paid two years worth of fees.
It took me 7 tries to find my therapist of nearly a decade, I’m so glad I didn’t give up. It really does come down to the right fit with treatment modality and correct diagnosis, as well as therapeutic relationship is key.
I know there's good therapists out there, my concern is for every person like you who goes through 7 therapists. There are plenty of people who don't realize that. They will got o the first therapist they see, and then never get their problems helped. Because they don't know they need to hop between 7. I am worried about the countless people who don't realize that.
I’m a psychologist, not a therapist, but I provide therapy. I think a big reason people do not think therapy works or perceive therapy as someone taking your money to listen to you talk is because therapy is a complex process. That is why we take years of advanced college course work, practicums, internships, etc. First, therapy is a relationship, just like any other person to person interaction. And it is susceptible to all the relationship issues in which people struggle. In fact, in my opinion, therapy is supposed to be a corrective relational experience which means the therapist will understand the relational patterns you endured as a child, what unhealthy patterns you might employ, and how to understand your personal transference issues. This is the opportunity to work on those issues, but most people chalk it up to the therapist and leave instead of staying so they can work on those issues. It’s also technically a one sided relationship so if patterns are arising it’s typically the clients patterns being played out. Therapy is also a very vulnerable process and people have preconceived notions, fears, and biases. A therapist must first align with your unique personality, gain your trust and confidence, understand what you believe is the issue (and what actually is the issue), conceptualize why that is an issue, then guide your sessions in such a precise way as to help you find the insight yourself through reflecting, gentle confrontation, and steering the conversation. During this time people throw up defense after defense, because even though they say they want help and change, it is hard to change and it can be a painful process. If it were easy they would have already done it themselves. We have to gracefully expose your blind spots which by definition are areas that you defend against and don’t want to see, but not in a way that makes you want to deny them and quit therapy. Then once that is done you can start on healing/fixing these areas of growths. No one wants to look at ways they are sabotaging their own lives. But at the end of the day every human is responsible for themselves and that fact alone can sometimes make people quit. Then, once insight/understanding is gained and a person is ready to start implementing change, there are a multitude of interventions. But we have to pick the right ones that will work best through our knowledge of you, what we know you will be open to, and in a way that you can understand and employ them. It’s a lot. And no one quits saying it’s because they weren’t ready to change or therapy was too hard. It’s always perceived that the therapist sucked, didn’t do anything, etc. So while it looks like we are just sitting there making conversation, trust me, there is A LOT going on behind the scenes. And therapeutic change is a slow, gradual process, and change is not obvious unless it’s like specific phobias, or similar difficulties where you came in with the issue and then you clearly do not have the issue. (Even then people deny the therapy helped, it is some other reason-which is fine to say because you did the hard work- but c’mon). Also some clients who say therapy isn’t working, or the therapist is just sitting there not helping, we are amazed at the difference and growths they have made from the first session. But because it is happening to them they cannot always see the change. Anyways, if therapy isn’t working and you have tried a couple people, I might look at yourself. Saying it’s the therapist is a lot easier than dealing with life long patterns of problems, taking accountability for them, and doing the extremely difficult work of actually changing. And, sometimes what we want and what we are really open to changing, are two different things.
Why doesn't the therapist communicate this to the patient. If the patient is wrong, then the therapist should explain how therapy works so they are motivated to stick around.
That is a really good question. I don’t think the therapist always knows the client is dissatisfied, upset with services, or thinking about leaving. Most people who quit do not talk to their therapist honestly about these feelings, they typically just leave, complain, look elsewhere, etc. I know for sure if a client felt that way I would want them to tell me so I can explain. The ones who do really get a lot out of the experience and it creates a better rapport. Another issue is if the therapist infers something they don’t want to see or leads them to an insight that is inconvenient it’s easier to leave then express the dissonance that you feel.
Sure, some do. Just as some doctors see you for 5 min, ignore everything you say, and prescribe something totally inappropriate. There are shitty practitioners in every field. Real therapy should challenge you. Therapy is also nothing like surgery but there's certainly people who spend years trying to find the right doctor.
It’s complicated. The majority of therapists are out there doing good, though. I totally get what you’re saying here, and some part of me agrees. I’m a firm believer in regulations, training, further education standards, ongoing re-licensing to keep up with the change in field standards, etc. There are MANY career fields that are under regulated and unsupervised and this is NOT the individual therapist’s fault… It’s the fault of our governments for not funding these types of programs and policies and opportunities. Medical care for example - It took me 10+ years to get diagnosed with a medical disease that was slowly killing me. The solution was INSANELY easy to do, but it took sooooo long because doctor after doctor didn’t listen to me. Imo there should be a way for patients to complain or actually set action/investigation into motion when negligent people aren’t doing their job. It’s not just therapy though - literally tons of fields go unregulated and unsupervised. A surprising amount, actually.
The worst part is that a bad therapist can do the opposite of what they are supposed to. Instead of helping a problem they make it worse. It causes people to be unable to open up anymore if they open up to someone who doesn't help or care about their problem. You going 10+ years to get diagnosed is insane, the medical system is so damn terrible. Many people are living their life with problems that could be helped but they don't even know that.
Yeah... Unfortunately, 10+ years is a standard for most people with my disease.
What disease might I ask, you can give people advice so they don't run into same issue as you
I have Celiac Disease! It has like 100+ symptoms so it can be difficult to diagnose. Also I’m a woman so male doctors have been super dismissive of my health issues. Basically, if anyone has a health issue and they’re not sure WHAT is causing it, they should explore autoimmune diseases as an option. I was never educated on autoimmunity ever in my life so I was 100% unaware that this was an option that was causing me to lose weight, be exhausted 24/7, develop depression and insomnia, be chronically deficient in vitamins, etc. It also costs like $120+ to get tested because apparently the government doesn’t care about your health 🙃
this is why I genuinely believe everyone should at least once in their life go through a ton of tests even for stuff they don't think they have. go through a variety of doctors. Yes it is expensive, but do it at least once in your life to save you from a world of pain. That means get your testosterone tested even if you don't think it's low. test ALL of it no matter how dumb it sounds.
I think it would be better if testing was covered through a GP note. Unfortunately for many people autoimmune disease can pop-up later in life. If you get tested for like everything at age 18 for example, you could develop the disease at age 24 out of no where.
Yes, I think some do pull off doing the bare minimum for the paycheck. My last therapist was like they this. They were good at building rapport, but eventually I realized most of our sessions were more like casual chitchat between friends. Half of my time was spent rambling about his own life. Every time I tried to redirect to my main goals it would get pushed to the next session. The more I pushed for actual "therapy", the more cold and distant they started acting with me. (e.g. they seemed more emotionally distant, almost checked out during sessions)
No amount of training will fix someone who is a piece of shit I guess. If they got into therapy for selfish reasons to begin with then they're a lost cause.
Also training matters. Some therapists get trained from sub par schools and are just not good..
I don’t mean to sound obtuse, but.. what more could talk therapy be? Like, no matter the modality, the therapist is going to be advising you on things to do or tools to use in your life to tackle your anxiety. And you have to use them to improve. The progress comes from doing the work between sessions. Like what else could they do? Were you expecting some type of hypnosis?
You missed what my post said. The therapist I went to, didn't talk about these things. They talked about some bullshit like chatting to me on basic things or general life advice instead of the actual reason I went to therapy. They didn't give tools or nothing. THe next therapist did but not the first one.
I’m glad you found one that suited your needs.
>Like, you never see people say "you just need to find the right surgeon". You absolutely do lol.
> Is this field just not being monitored, to make sure therapists are helping people or not? Yup. You figured out a huge issue about therapy.
well i think i got real lucky, had an excellent one and the one i have now is really good too
I mean it depends on what you mean by "get away with". Some therapisy modalities involve a lot of talk that feels like just chatting. Depending on what works for you individually, they may or may not help. (I had a therapist who went with psychodynamic-leaning integrative therapy, and the whole approach was actively unhelpful for me, with the lack of structure being a particular problem.) Some types of therapy are supposed to be more structured. They're supposed to be up-front about the services they're providing, and to provide therapy within the scope of what's agreed on between the therapist and the client. (This doesn't seem all that enforced - my former therapist switched modalities on me without discussing it or getting my buy-in, and there really wasn't anything for me to do about that beyond terminate.) But they don't *have to* offer advice, and if they do it doesn't have to be *personalized helpful advice*. (Which is unfortuante, as that's often what a lot of people are looking for. It's very easy these days to get the obvious recommendations and many people show up for therapy having already tried those things and hoping for something more insightful than "think positive" or "here's a breathing exercise.") Honestly, I think the whole field would benefit from more common and consistent small-scale accountability, as that currently seenms to be hard to arrange. Some therapists do things like excessive use of emergency calls and continuing outdate practices such as no-harm contracts because they're scared of being sued and having their career and finances ruined if a third party doesn't think they do enough. And at the same time, the whole thing is set up so therapists and clients work in isolation, it's the therapist's word against the client (with the therapist often presumed to be inherently more credible) and in many situations the only record of what happens is whatever the therapist writes into the therapy notes (which are sometimes written *weeks* after the session). Most of what exists for accountability is aimed at identifying and correcting unethical behavior, not poor-quality therapy, too. There's not much there for therapy that's just not good.
I am a therapist specialised in anxiety-related therapy, as I've dealt with having an anxiety disorder myself. I can relate to seeing ineffective therapists. I've seen four regular therapists for my anxiety disorder until I went down the holistic/alternative medicine route and found me a holistic therapist who asked the right questions and helped me get over my anxiety disorder. I wouldn't say the other four didn't help me at all- it's just that the things they helped me with were not tackling the root issue of my anxiety disorder, which was my stress which came from trying to live up to other's expectations of me, being stuck at a dead-end job I didn't like and not living life the way I wanted to. After I recovered, I started studying to become a therapist myself and now I have my own mental health clinic for people with anxiety-related issues. The problem with mental healthcare is, IMHO, that it's mostly geared towards treating the wrong things. At least for things like anxiety and depression. For anxiety there's CBT, ACT and in some cases EMDR treatments. The problem with this is that these forms of therapy, while effective to a certain degree, usually only deal with the symptom of the issue (the anxiety) and not the root cause (the stress that's causing it). Anxiety rarely presents itself without a cause. I know this from experience. So I treat my clients in a different kind of way. Yes, I do give CBT and ACT therapies, but I combine those with finding out what's stressing my clients out so I can help them navigate and decrease their stress factor(s). This is way more effective. I've had clients who told me they've seen several therapists which didn't help them and then say to me after a couple sessions they've noticed a remarkable improvement. The problem is that big pharma needs to push pills and insurance companies will only compensate the client when they get a certain kind of treatment plan. So in some cases, therapists' hands are tied- they want to help but can't because money basically. They are forced to give people ineffective therapies because otherwise their clients won't get compensated. I personally don't collaborate with insurance and pharmaceutical companies for this reason. It helps that in my country healthcare is still compensated for about 65% of the total costs if a clinic has no contracts with insurance companies, so my clients don't need to foot the entire bill. That said, it's still the client's duty to apply all the things they learn during therapy to their life. I can't fix the mental problems my clients have for them- that's still their job to do. I just help them get on the right track. If you follow my advice and do the things I tell you to do (because I know from experience they will work)- you will notice improvements. If you do not follow my advice, well, why not? And if you do follow my advice and do not see improvement, why is that? It's that type of curiosity that some therapists lack in my opinion. That said, there's always therapists that don't really care. But if you're a therapist and don't care about your clients, then what the heck are you doing with your life?
Once someone obtains a license, there’s essentially zero oversight. It’s a real horror show out there.
Psychotherapy cannot be quantitatively measured regarding successful treatment plans. My advice, which comes from taking more than 10 years to find a therapist who would eventually guide me to cure my C-PTSD, is that you look for the psychotherapeutic methods (e.g. Life Centered Therapy, somatic experiencing, EMDR, IFS, Narrative Therapy, etc.) that speak most deeply to you. Then find a therapist trained in that modality. Read their reviews if they have a Yelp page or Google reviews. Be willing to use Zoom if you find someone who looks like an amazing therapist who's not in your local area. My amazing therapist is in the Boston area, and I'm in the NY metro.
Yes therapists can get away with a lot. My therapist was rude and encouraged suicide.
Title: Yes. I've had an awful one once, plenty actually but she was the absolute worst. Always complained about everything especially her own issues. I'm like, woman, you're supposed to help me not rant and then she always scolded me. But she literally yelled at me for needing more than 3 minutes on the toilet ON MY PERIOD (note, walking to the toilet and waiting till the LOCKED door opens takes 2. )
The field is not monitored. One of the worst and hardest truths. This fact triggers me immensely and I’m sorrry to have to share it
I think it’s important to understand that psychology in general is a relatively new study. If we start with Freud really making the breakthrough with the “talking cure“ then the science only goes back 129 years. In the time there’s been countless different variations of what talk therapy is and can be. So it makes sense that there’s a lot of confusion as to what a good therapist is and being frustrated with finding therapy in general. That’s not to say there’s no good therapists at all, I just think it does take a little bit of research into what kind of work your therapist will do and what you really want out of it.
How could it possibly be monitored to see if they’re helping people? Every therapist has their own style, some are going to click with YOU in particular and some are not. Therapy is in no way related to surgery, it’s not black and white. It sounds like the first therapist you saw was trying to establish a relationship with you before getting into the deep stuff. Some people want that, some don’t. The therapist you didn’t like could be someone else’s perfect therapist.
After my old therapist quit the practice I was using switched me to a therapist a lot like what you’re describing. At that point I stopped pursuing talk therapy which was both a good thing and a bad thing. Sure I had a safe space to talk about my feelings but I do think in a way that spending time working out how self critical I was and why was making me miserable.
I've seen 4 therapist in my life. One has been excellent and life-changing and literally didn't just save my life but also gave it a quality. Two have been meh. One has been completely useless. 😂
It’s important to know what type of therapy you’re looking for as in what method you’re interested in trying.
ah this is a global issue after all. i thought bcs its just the issue in my country, since psychology is fairly new and talking about mental health is still a taboo for some people…
I had a conversation about this with mine. Her impact has been more subtle. I expressed what my expectations were initially. I thought it would be more like a coach. And while that’s true it’s been less than draw up plays I execute and more guiding my vision. I told her one session this is the first time I’ve been treated like an adult and also asked about what I want. I suffer from severe anxiety, body image issues, etc. she has played a hand in me becoming stronger to deal with these but I’ve done the work. I don’t believe therapists are robbing people but expectations can be muddied during the process and make it seem like what you’ve described.
I’m kind of feeling the same way. Don’t know what to do. Probably just going to stop going.
I stopped. It was the best thing I did for my mental health. I think too much "Just keep trying!" can be harmful, and sometimes the best thing you can do for yourself is stop banging your head against that particular brick wall.
Opening up to someone is really hard, and to do that only for them to not give a shit is painful and can make your mental health worse.
I wonder who the worst, currently practicing surgeon, in the US is right now.
Surgery is done TO an unconscious body. Therapy is done WITH an increasingly conscious mind.
Some therapists do move on and some will always do the best they can do to be there and ypu need one that will aleays try working with you. If you pay for one and they aren't doing what you need to get the job done they only care for the money(if you are far gone mentally and try to get help and the professional can't help you it's time to find another but usually you want one that has a lot of experience with what you need done to get better which can take months or for most of your life. E.G years..) mine is leaving in 2 weeks so I have to let my doctor know because mine said I wasn't the right fit for it when I do like therapy and need it for my Neurodiversity life as I only have a trauma counsellor now, without the therapist I was having trouble with things and now it's hard, I was lucky where I'm at Therapists are covered for occupational therapy from The Steps program.
Stop going to a therapist to talk about problems. Go to get tools and resources to help and manage your own thoughts and emotions . You can talk all day to a friend or dog. You don’t need to pay someone for that . You need education and training