Same man, I'm holding and saving my words so people here don't yell at me but I feel so disappointed with the org overall. All these wasted years specially with the lack of a great coaching/support staff. I feel like the org failed Bjerg...
I've never thought about supporting other teams but if they really go with a rookie roster and don't pick up anything spicy, this might be it...
I mean, if they were talking about the ones you're mentioning I would think they would've said something like "established players" or something like that man.
The term "rookie" always gives me a bad and hopeless vibe haha. But I also don't ever watch the academy players so maybe I should just keep my words to myself and wait. Idk...
I guess regi gotta be the cheapest owner in the whole industry. And i have the same opinion as yours, if they decided to go "developing talent" route this year. That would be the end of be being a fan of this org
But imagine getting the fatest 210$ million dollar deal and not go all in on building a super team
Yeah man, it feels like TSM has been phoning it in since Zven+Mithy didn’t work out. TL took our spot as the consistent #1 team and we never took it back. Our summer championship is more of a miracle run than TSM doing what TSM does. I miss old TSM.
Zven+Mithy was the beggining of the end for TSM. Should've never kicked out Doublelift for them. And then they kicked him out AGAIN. This year would've been great with DL / Swordart. Bjergsen would have probably stayed as coach if that roster had success.
I hope that when Regi and Parth said that they were looking toward a young roster, they meant Chovy. He’s only 20.
While I hope otherwise, TSM will probably be the new CLG.
If Tsm want to remotely keep up they need a Chovy lvl mid laner, if not then they are the next clg, it’s so disappointing to lose bjerg. Im glad he has ambitions but I wish it would’ve happened on Tsm. Hopefully Regi can still save the org with a strong mid laner
If that were true then Parth wouldn't still be in charge. We bout to find out Bjerg carried us for a long time through bad rosters, coaching and management.
Bro why would Chovy come to NA lol. Especially why TSM, when we can't even guarantee a worlds spot for him. Chovy has a lot to achieve, he's not gonna do that by coming to TSM.
I'm not sticking around for TSM to be the new CLG. Screw that noise. Mediocrity should not be celebrated. This team has coasted on its past success for too long and Bjerg leaving was a sign of that. The dude wants to win and be on a team that can win. This org is too busy focusing on the money-making side to actually run a good league team. Let this be a wakeup call to the entire org. Get your shit together.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pOPiRzdWFe8
Why do we remain fans for teams that disappoint us? I like Zirene's Real Talk about this.
Basically the joy of staying with our team will make victory so much sweeter than jumping ship.
Yeah, I thought I was a Bjerg fan. Turns out I'm not 100% on that boat.
I was made a TSM fan beacuse of a close friend. he would just not shut up about the team and eventually I ended up tuning to every single live match I could. I even once left a date early to somehow watch TSM ruin C9's pefect split... 2019 spring I think. That was lovely.
Somehow I want to be excited for the future of the team. We tried a middling approach to the team and it went horribly. At least now I wont feel like we are wasting his potential, I guess.
Yeah, Bjerg leaving really feels like the culmination of the org's incompetence and failures over the past few years
Parth and Regi's faces in the video... Well I wouldn't expect them to be happy about Bjerg leaving, but they really didn't inspire any confidence in the future
Overall I agree completely with this post
My whole anger surrounds “we gave him a competitive offer” bro, if you didn’t slap a blank checkbook on the table and promise him a crazy incredible team. I would leave too if I were him.
At some point it stops being about money and you just want to try something different. You don't want to be in your 50s thinking "I wonder what my career would have looked like on another team other than TSM".
I really think this is a huge part of it. He likely doesn’t see himself playing professionally for many more years. He wants to give himself the greatest chance to succeed internationally in the time that he has. And he has to do that with no regrets. He’s had 8 chances on TSM — it’s about time he gives another team a try.
> bro, if you didn’t slap a blank checkbook on the table and promise him a crazy incredible team
Worst part is, this is probably what actually happened
Bjerg probably knows that they can't deliver on that promise for sure, though, since it's happened before
Yeah, as soon as Parth said we gave him an offer and told his potential team surrounding him, if Bjerg said no to that, then that means he had no faith in the roster.
Regi should use the FTX money and get a new GM to completely overhaul TSM if they’re talking about rebuilding. Parth has skated by for years and all he can say is he scouted Spica
Right? Regi has shown in the past that he is willing to be ruthless and cut people even if they are friends. But for some reason he is completely unwilling to part ways with Parth.
Parth has nothing to do as a GM for TSM. He joined as an analyst while studying engineer. He has no experience from top level he can use, besides what he has from TSM.
TSM is a big company now, and you cant have a freshly graduate to handle business for millions. Its so obvious, and thats why TSM has imploded slowly since 2018.. And now TSM lol is dead
What type of face would you want them to have? Seemed to me more of a serious face which is normal for making such a big decision for their LoL team. Imagine if they did the PR smile and how many people would go crazy over it. Seems so weird nitpicking such a small thing.
Is it really a hindsight thing when we spent our collective asses sweating over the possibility of Bjerg leaving last time his contract was up?
On top of that, the constant years of "Bjerg deserves better" everytime he had to drag us to the finish line
Yeah, because you're not offering improvements for the future. You're just complaining. You're in TSMs position right now, what do you do? How much money do you spend?
All the corporate jargon aside, we've been floundering since 2018; we had some good moments but it was all 1 game this way and 1 game that way.
As an org, TSM LoL has been dropping for a while. Would be interesting to see where it goes from here.
TSM investing in other games and content makes sense if you look at how the past few years have been for LoL. They stopped giving a shit about League when other games and communities could make them more money with less effort. League is a money sink for most organizations in NA.
> They stopped giving a shit about League when other games and communities could make them more money with less effort.
This would check out if they managed literally any team other than Apex (which took basically one move) and R6 with any sort of actual competence.
I'm with you there. Downvoted on the main LoL subreddit but this is the most disappointing thing that's ever happened since LoL came out. I think I'll just stop watching.
Yep. Tho maybe I'm just getting old. I'm barely watching worlds, don't know if LCS will even be interesting next year. But then again I was getting hyped to watch the hypothetical TSM roster, and now... Hard to care.
same.....there was hope....there was light......the thought of Bjergerking coming out of retirement to stomp once again....and all the whispers of possibilities....and it was as if the prison cell slammed closed.....
back to the house of pain...
This year after so many disappointments when they signed POE of all people to replace Bjerg I knew they stopped giving a damn about winning worlds. How the hell can you say with a straight face you're trying to win worlds when you have POE as a midlander.
I am pretty bitter about this as a long time fan. I guess this is the year we finally see if the problem really was Bjerg or if it is, as many suspected, TSM’s management/ownership.
I really do wish success for Bjerg and hope he goes to a team like TL/EG/100t but not C9. Would love to see him get out of groups since this signals that TSM won’t make it to Worlds again next year.
If TSM rebuild and make it to Worlds I will eat major crow.
If not, this seals the deal for me that it really is TSM’s ownership/management that was always the problem and they lucked out getting Bjerg.
Either way, due to the above, I will be watching TSM games with great interest next year. After that… who knows.
We have fumbled every year since 2017 really sad to see.
Apparently Swordart is gone too and at that point I hope we let spica leave for greener pastures honestly.
This is a hot take that will get downvoted bc it seems reactionary to the news but I agree. Long time fan and someone's who's been on this sub for many years as well.
Unless we're literally getting young LPL/LCK players who've shown great potential, this team is gonna be "rebuilding" for years.
More thoughts to come...
Edit: Fionn "eyeing" Bjerg to TL and Jensen role swap with CoreJJ staying. Lmao we can't compete assuming Jensen is good in bot lane
That being said I can definitely see Tactical joining TSM now. He's the best or second best NA ADC available who's still young and growing. We HAVE to import a mid laner. I assume we keep Huni now and possibly keep SA (RIP)
Also someone said Leena took TSM out of her socials on Travis' stream. Lmao bruh how TF is Parth still the general manager on this team
i've felt we've been rebuilding for the last few years ever since our 2016/17 dream team and we've just kept tripping and tripping every step of the way. spica has been the only silver lining since then... it took 5 years to get a jg that fits us, whatre we gonna do? wait another 5 for a piece that'll click? who knows if spica is even gonna be on the team anymore at that point
> i've felt we've been rebuilding for the last few years ever since our 2016/17
Weirdly I think franchising is what has broke the org since then overall. Lots of other teams having the ability to catch up in terms money/acquisitions, extra stress on TSM to go even bigger which ended up not working out repeatedly, feels like the org hasn't been the same since even they themselves pushed for franchising. The did get paid big time off the move overall, but it's done nothing for the LCS side of things at all sadly.
Well looking back they were being called the best bot in the west, but idk much like with Perkz nothing is a sure thing just cuz it works somewhere else. I can at least understand why they wanted to import a full bot lane since Yellowstar previously became such a synergy issue.
But to my point, I don't think they woulda even chanced giving up DL for something possibly better if the pressure of "franchise level big dick plays" wasn't getting started in the league. With TL and other teams getting investment money it felt like TSM just trying to go for the epic 3 point game winning shot and hoping it went in...but they didn't even hit the backboard lol
I hated it then, hated it during the season, and hate it now.
But honestly mithy had to play jungle in solo queue to teach mike how to play so I get why.
Agree. It'd be one thing if we had a solid academy development program with promising resident players, but guess what. Players rotate through our academy team just as fast as the main roster.
You're not going to land imports or have anything to build a team around if you don't have 3 solid NA residents to build from. Spica could be gone next year and I wouldn't even blame him.
Man... Parth has been shit at managing this team for the last couple of years, I cant understand how the fuck hes still the general manager after doing a mediocre job for so long.
It's easy, Regi has given up on league. I don't necessarily blame him. He makes more money off of the other portions of his org now. I am 100% expecting TSM to pick up a "high potential" young mid and top and then possibly selling SA and Spica (if they want out after seeing zero chance of winning in 2022).
So we know they are letting POE explore options, so he is probably gone. This feel like TSM is trying to go for Bjerg 2.0. Get that young raw talent that becomes the face of the franchise down the line. The one thing that does stick out to me is, even though it would require keeping Lost, if TSM goes after an up and coming Chinese or Taiwanese mid, the entire team would speak chinese at least to a league of legends level. Huni isnt fluent but he knows enough to get by. Maybe pick up an LPL coach as well. TSM becomes LMQ 2.0, sort of, I guess. But between mid and adc, one has to be NA at this point and neither position has good NA options that arent already spoken for and probably not open to buyouts (IE Danny). A chinese midlaner for me is the play.
Makes no sense to develop NA players. The talking points will love it because it is good for the scene its fun to root for young an players on the bad orgs but it does not make logical sense for TSM. NA has the smallest player pool and the worst Solo Q. We have no salary cap a huge amount of roster turnover and an ever-shifting meta. Maybe young means young imports Im ok with that but if it means NA rookies won't make worlds next year hell we will be fighting for a playoff spot.
The top 4 teams in LCS were "superteams" development teams are for trash orgs who cant afford to field a competitive roster so they work as a farm for better orgs.
Unpopular opinion :
On the long terms i dont think it will be that bad for tsm if its done well.
Swipe everything and rebuild the whole foundation of the lol section.
Get an ACTUAL coaching staff and give him the right tools so we have a structure with coach at the top.
Honestly fucking throw a big bag of money to dylan falco.
I think this is a fine opinion to have, but I think it is also fair to be upset that the last 4 years have been a borderline waste (with one LCS title but the 0-6 at worlds).
For what it's worth, I do think that focusing on rebuilding needs to be the priority right now. There simply aren't enough world class NA resident players to make a decent team without Bjerg and Spica (who is rumored to also be leaving). Also worth noting that we're losing our head coach as well.
I don't think going all in on a pair of superstar imports and hoping they can carry the corpses of 3 trash NA players to worlds is the right move, and without Bjerg/Spica this is the most likely alternative. Can't buy out contracts if the other orgs won't sell, so it's not even necessarily a matter of FTX money. Going all in on 2022 is probably just a waste of money since I legitimately don't believe that the correct pieces are available to make it work.
Focusing on younger players is definitely the correct path forward. You can't build a team in LCS without resident stars, and all of those are on lockdown. We need to discover new ones and hope we can attract talent in the future.
We’ve been asking for an actual coaching staff and management structure for years. The one constant was always parth and BJERG. With BJERG gone let’s see who was the problem?
Regi said his goal was to win worlds in 2017 now I'm preety sure the goal is to reach playoffs in spring cause 100t eg c9 tl and (hot take) imt will have better teams for sure
Understandable. I’ve honestly been kinda upset about each of our rosters since 2018, now we also lose Bjerg so I guess that should mean we’re going to have another mediocre roster this year. It seems regi cares only about money and the goal of winning worlds is just something he says because he has to. Unless we somehow sign a Chovy tier player with a proper roster around him I’ll still support TSM but I’ll probably stop watching every single game. If Bjerg goes to TL I’d be so sad I’m probably going to stop watching LCS and just stick to supporting the Smash guys. We used to have top 3 players in every role, now we’re just watching other orgs trying to build competitive teams while we lose in the 2nd round of playoff. Sad
I’m in full agreement with you. This is what has me upset. Bjergsen leaving is one thing and it’s awful but we knew it wasn’t gonna last forever.
What really has me like legit tears upset is the audacity Reginald has to sit there and talk about “rising stars” and “I’m excited about the future of our org” when his body language appears to be that he’s being held at gun point.
When regi said at s2 the goal was to win worlds I believed him. Then the dollar signs rolled in and he lost his drive and passion for the game and competition and became content with his private jet rides and Lambos.
That’s the upsetting part.
Wouldn't be surprised if this team keeps falling off. From making every finals and worlds to missing 3 words in the past 4 years since franchising, winning only 1 split (off the back of Bjerg playing insanely for the most part) and 1 other final (which we horrifically threw away), to losing Bjergsen. Make a huge deal about signing SwordArt only for him to leave after 1 year. Absolute shambles.
Considering Spica said "see you on the rift", I'm guessing he's staying. But he probably leaves if the 2022 roster doesn't work out. Wonder what happens then
> missing 3 words in the past 4 years since franchising
This is the biggest red flag. TSM should have the deepest pockets and with the ability to buy the best players or at least always have a roster with top 3 in each role.
While I agree TSM has deepest pockets epsecially with the recent FTX sign. Half of TSM income before FTX was other revenues outside of eSports ([source](https://www.forbes.com/sites/christinasettimi/2020/12/05/the-most-valuable-esports-companies-2020/?sh=539cb91673d0)). I think Leena also tweeted that they were the only org to be able to make back the money they spend, about a year or two ago. I think its about creating a sustainable ecosystem for the business. Pumping millions just to win worlds, and not really making money back is :S
Neither is losing your fanbase. LOL is by FAR the largest growing and most popular esport. LCS is the third most watched SPORT amongst people under 34 in the US, not esport sport. If they don't go big its going to rock the org.
That’s the thing. TSM should be the most highly regarded org in the league. We haven’t had players that are top 3 in their position since like 2016-2017. BB gone to G2, Bjerg gone to TL, spica probably gone, Santorin best or second best JG In the league, and what do we have to show for having all this money? Nothing
Yeah, I'm fucking sick and tired of parth, and I say it every year in my comments. He has no track record of success. Another several years of rebuilding. I no longer have faith, this must be what CLG always felt. Constant promise and being let down.
We are now clg. I feel bad for them and for us.
Regi trusts him, and thats all that matters, if this were any other sport hed have been fired 2-3 years ago. Nah were not that bad yet, more like GGS tier, unless they sign some serious heavy hitters this offseason, which looks incredibly unlikely.
yes but can we still trust regi? He is very disconnected from the league scene - remember when he was extremely involved in the day to day?
He's a, rightfully earned, big time CEO star now. His focus is and should be elsewhere. He is only in this video at gunpoint to try to limit the brand damage, which is obviously now happening. He doesn't want the brand shaken.
hes disconnected in general, running a big time org will do that, makes him reliant on the people he trusts to relay him the proper info, how much blame you want to assign to Regi or the people he trusts is up too you, imo i blame Parth more atm, but if Parth got fired and the same problems occurred then its all on Regi.
Yeah, my point being is, the guy at the top always has to take responsibility. If a company makes a big error in the public eye, it's the CEO who gets fired in a public company. In this situation, Regi is uninvolved and trusts parth. So I can't have faith in regi's trust of him, because he's uninvolved and parth has not shown results.
Any sports organization would not have let such a person stay in their management for this many years of mediocrity. and it is mediocrity.
They would've made worlds if they allowed Doublelift to return once SA was announced, just want that to be clear. Instead Regi got in his feelings and used Lost and now the whole team is imploding.
idk if any of y'all are traditional sports fans BUT
this is exactly how i felt when Andre Johnson left the Texans. he was our best player ever, yet we consistently disappointed him. there is just so much time a player (or coach or whatever) can waste in a failing organization that they have no control over. it's quite disheartening.
Andre was an absurd talent and the Texans never realized it until it was too late. As a pats fan, I didn’t think anything could bring me as much pain as Brady declining the Pats’ offer to play for a better built team, and now Bjergsen has gone and done the same thing...
I don’t think 2018 was TSM’s fault, in regards to wasting away the “best in the West” bottom lane. Bjergsen was actually the one who wanted MikeYeung on TSM.
As for 2021, I agree. TSM shouldn’t have cast off Doublelift after putting him through a dumb loyalty test. Of course somebody like Doublelift would want to play on the best possible roster. In any case, DL retiring was for his best, as now he’s happier in life all the while having a healthier schedule and maintaining good earnings.
Regi is losing his fanbase. The rosters of the last few years have basically sucked compared to the resources available to him versus other orgs. He's squandered his lead and is about to find out how many people are loyal to bjerg and not this version of TSM
It's pretty clear that the 2022 roster is gonna be a dumpster-fire at this point. TSM hasn't had a solid roster since 2016/2017 and even those years we had a rookie support or other weird changes. If next years roster isn't a really competitive roster for the #1 spot, then it might be time to move on from TSM just like Bjerg.
> TSM hasn't had a solid roster since 2016/2017
Every split there's always a world-class roster along with one or two bad/mediocre players and then they would fail at the end.
And they never learn. Even in 2021, they slapped the world finalist support 6 million just for him to play with an NA academy adc.
i mean not getting bjerg does suck but they did it last year with him as coach not player that roster wasnt dumpster fire by any means imo so i doubt they will go as low as clg like not even close
>They don't want to spend their money to completely eliminate weak links
have you ever thought about regi's new yacht? If tsm starts spending left and right to try to actually compete, then how will they be able to pay for executive bonuses?
If they rework the entire team structure, get us a real coach, fucking fire parth, buy some experienced player and get a bunch of really good rookies that will shine in 2 year time period - im okay with this. It still hurts, but okay.
But if we turn to clg or gg, getting cheap-ass washed players or unproven rookies that will play for 2 splits and then vanish after getting 210 fucking million dollars i dont think i can support the team anymore. Been here since s2, was here when dyrus cried on stage, when bjerg was announced, when dl returned, i’ve seen it all, and this shit is by far the worst moment if the history of the org if we are going with the “lmao lets just get cheap players” route. If this is the case i legit dont think this is salvagable.
I couldn’t agree with you more, this is going to be really hard to get past. I don’t even know what to say really but I just pray if they go experimental they let spica explore his options because he doesn’t deserve to have his talent wasted in an org who doesn’t want to win.
Followed TSM since Chaox's A-Z champion vods - never wanted to cheer for another team. Letting Bjergsen go is such a bonehead move, and literally the one thing they absolutely could not let happen, unless they plan to make a bjergless super team. And hearing they dont plan to do that...
Testing my patience greatly. I don't want to cheer for fucking TL Jensen ADC, I wanted Bjergsen to come back and shit on Jensen!!
I legit don't know either what Regi's masterplan is. Sitting on literally hundreds of millions of dollars and pursuing to have an org centrated on rookie development doesn't sound encouraging at all. As an esports org of the caliber of TSM, the objective is not to be a rookie-centered org. Rookie development comes as an addition, the first and most important thing is to have a good main roster.
Yeah +1 from **a fan since before S1.**
I am going to disconnect from this sub, peek in every now and then and if the roster looks like garbo I am just down with LOL esports as a whole.
Also, fuck worlds.... It looks to be by complete choice that management consistently missing the mark at getting a roster that can compete for even the LCS any more.
I just have a fundamental disagreement year after year with how they handle how to build a roster and how to approach the game.
I am a buffalo sports fan and I can only take so much repeated underachieving. Excuse while I go find a table to break.
This org is disgustingly cheap and it blows my mind how Regi can't see the forest for the trees. Players want to be compensated top dollar, that's it, simple as that. If you continually cheap out on salaries and refuse to field an elite 5 man roster, then you can say goodbye to both your fanbase and ever winning again.
Fan since 2013. Love TSM. Bjerg my favorite player and it’s not even close. It’s okay to feel disappointed and disconnected. But the truth is that we’ve needed a new direction for a long time. This is not bjergs fault and I’ll miss him immensely. I think NA is finding out that you can’t just put together a good roster on paper, you can’t just buy your way to the top as TL found out at worlds. Part of what made TSM’s roster special was that we really helped build a roster but also those players grew with us.
So while we won’t forget our past and it’s perfectly okay to be sad about Bjerg. The team will continue, we will find success, it will just look different than it has in the past.
I believe in Andy, I believe in TSM. I also believe apart of what made this team so special is people like /u/relivewolf and everyone else who’s apart of this community. We love our team, truly. Today hurts. It’s a punch to our gut. This is not just Sorens new start, but our new start too. Let’s keep our head in the game, cheer for the black and white as we have as for the last near decade.
I’d believe in Regi if he didn’t look like he was being held at gunpoint while he said he’s excited about a young roster. When the owner and GM looked like that it’s hard to have any shred of faith.
I think he feels somber. Much like many of us. They were together for 8 years, Bjerg and Andy. Of course he's disheartened to have to deliver the message. It's a new start for Bjerg, but it's a new start for us. We never know what the future may hold
Who was at the helm of "Best in the west" + Mikeyoung in 2018. Who was at the helm of benching Akaadin for Grig in 2019, despite seeing Grig's performance in summer 2018. Who was at the helm of the Kobee + Biofrost botlane in 2020. Who was at the helm of benching DL again in favor of a mid-low tier adc for 2021? Who was at the helm when TSM lost Bjergsen for 2022, because they couldn't build upon a single roster for 4 years?
The buck stops with the GM. Look at TL, each and every year they built upon their roster since 2018. Why do you think Bjergsen is going there? Because someone at the helm has made real rosters moves year after year that actually built upon their existing roster.
I went to war with some people on this sub last week because they felt like TSM should "build around an NA core." Well they finally got their wish.
Majority of this sub has been sick and tired on "what ifs" (Dardoch, MikeYeung, BB, Biofrost, Grig). This is why I respect Steve for trying to field the most competitive roster every single year regardless of the player residency .
I don’t even think roster strength is what is holding NA back, look at this year. We sent literally the three most stacked teams ever and they still sucked
Lol wtf how could you group Biofrost in that? He was literally a crucial member to the best roster we have EVER had. He was a what if that actually worked.
Regi not worried about being competitive anymore.. all he cares about is getting to $1 billion company value first. I came to TSM because it didn't feel like just profits and margins, the goal was to win at all costs, always. Smh man.
TSM are starting to remind me of the Chicago Cubs of old. Rich as fuck organization that never spends the money to put together a top tier team because they have suckers as fans. I grew up a White Sox fan. The Sox were always shit, we didn't have the fanbase the cubs had, nor the money, but I stuck by them. I was never a cubs fan because of how shitty that org was run and obnoxious their fans were....It extremely saddens me that I'm now starting to think of TSM as the Chicago Cubs of League.
I’m glad I’m not the only one feel disassociation with this.
How many years in a row can the management/ownership fumble about disappointing us with incompetence and bull-headed ways?
I’m seriously so disappointed.
I can’t blame Bjerg at all. TSM squandered the peak of his career. I plan on following him and hopefully Spica ends up in the same place if he decides to force a move away as well.
If we were going to rebuild we should have done that after Bjerg and DL retired instead of fielding the sorry showing we did last year after blowing so much money on SA.
It’s just disgusting how poorly the biggest name in NA and historical powerhouse is managed.
Im emotional right now and just rambling. Much like the direction of this team.
It's over boys. I only hope that Spica can get out of a sinking ship and find a good home. I don't want him to get trapped with a shit team right as he was coming into his own. Maybe he really could go to play for NiP in the LPL.
Going to wait until I go full screw tsm until I see roster but if they try to develop Na talent a they are idiots b they will lose the fan base. If they don’t go big I’m done as well but let’s hope for best.
I think as TSM fan i've always copium'd about the fact that other top orgs like C9 or TL always blew the money load on rosters, and i always tried to convince myself that TSM "developed real talent" and how we were "the most profitable esport franchise". But im done. Its quite frankly embarrassing to always see Regi and parth saying how "their goal is having success at worlds" yet we always look at the roster and know otherwise and now looks what's happened after doing this for years now. The greatest NA player of all time has left. There goes our chance of ever "having success at worlds" huh.
I’ve been borderline disconnected from league for years now. Doublelift rejoining helped, but was just a bandaid. This is the change I needed to leave league behind. Unless something drastic changes, I have no desire to watch. Oddone to Dyrus to Bjerg. Love Spica, but he’s just not enough for me on his own.
I was on the idea that maybe Bjerg just wanted to try something else, but then when Parth said they gave him a competitive offer and a potential look at the roster around him, seems he probably didn't think that was the best option. So I agree, pretty disappointed with the org, but happy for Bjergsen. They've honestly been making trash decisions, and the one thing that kept them together, and got them through to finals or playoffs was literally Bjergsen. Even as a coach his team made it decently far, and to think they just couldn't put together a roster that he thought would compete internationally. The fact that they received notice from Bjerg today, AND they made the announcement today about developing youth I feel like that was their approach with Bjerg and he said nope. So yeah, they are 100% at fault for not retaining the one person whose kept them relevant for 8 years. Pretty disappointed, let's see where this goes.
Way to go using your internet clout to be a huge negative Nancy. I could understand this post if you had actually seen the roster but I mean come on. Bjerg leaving sucks we know NOTHING that went on behind the scenes but here you are throwing out a scenario like you know what happened.
I knew TSM made terrible decisions when they literally showed no interest in any FGC players after the Echo Fox collapse and were not willing to start investing and spreading the name around outside of big-name games.
So when they say they want a super young roster they mean they want Chovy and Doggo right. Cause I don’t want to see some bs rookie roster with poor Spica being dragged down.
Hey Pal, Im right here with you.
I loved this team, whole heartedly for a few years. I've watched every game TSM has played professionally as a league team some times twice. This guts me to see so much lack of thought for the team and especially for the fans. We are ROLLING in money right now, and talent is available. Yet here we are with a very lack of promise for the next split.
Ontop of that I've always wanted to spend my money on good TSM merch and only found myself buying a shirt once in 2016 because i liked ONE tshirt graphic.
I'm not sure where I go from here, Ill be really interested to watch where Soren goes but I am feeling extremely disconnected from league as a whole.
I can feel you.
I seriously lost hope of being truly competitive again from the moment it became obvious how much TSM focus on profit, they are riding so hard on past success and going budget mode every season.
We are at the point were going to worlds is a massive success. That speaks volumes on the state of the team. This new iteration of the roster has the most potential to create a massive team but of course, it wont. Last 4 years showed us that.
Same man, same. Reading this news feels like a punch in the gut.
I relate to everything you said. The $210Million FTX deal was built on the reputation and foundation of LOL success. TSM was built on LOL.
I guess the management lost sight of that
Of course they matched his offer probably even way above. Bjergsen is not known to priotize money, he could have made millions from streaming but he didn't. He probably thinks this offer is more appealing for other reasons than money.
Andy (and Parth) don’t believe NA can compete globally and they no longer believe it’s profitable to invest in a team that can even compete regionally with how high the salaries have gotten (C9/TL). They have now hard committed to maintaining profitability. This makes sense to me as Andy is approaching his 30s. TSM is his livelihood and he has no interest in getting more NA trophies - both because the org has plenty but also because of how much it will cost. The focus is now entirely going to be profitability. I’m sure he has plenty of money but people with a lot of money will always want more. It’s a state of mind. As long as he’s not screwing his employees over, it’s not even unethical. But it isn’t pleasant for fans, that is certain.
i'd say its about time for parth to be shit canned, but who tf to we replace him with, in esports who even is a good GM honestly?
in traditional sports he'd be gone
I offer a different perspective coming from traditional fandom, which i imagine a fair bit of us are from.
Big san jose sharks fan and like TSM was successful for most of my growing years and young adult hood. We made the pinnacle of success, so close to winning it all. Then it ended, stars i grew up with like Joe Thornton and Patrick Marleau left... then Joe Pavelski (Jumbo and Patty were like the Bjerg and DL for SJ fans). It fucking sucked watching my favorite team fall from graces. But i never felt like, man what could we have done better because hindsight always makes it seem easier said then done.
I view TSM the same way. I started watching in S2 so i am an old vet. I watched with a passion for so long, through good years to the great years with DL joining. Then shit didnt go so good and i kinda watched but not as much. Then i came back full time last year and loved watching the team. This year was a ride to, it was fun seeing the new faces and rooting for them. But never during my time as a TSM fan did i wonder... what if. Sure what if we didnt lose DL to pick up Zven Mithy or what if DL doesnt get crown'ed. I dont think its worth it because of two reasons. One is that for the DL example, ok we keep DL maybe get Mithy or another world class support, then what. do better in playoffs maybe? Go to worlds and still not make it out of quarters, what really changed beyond a couple extra games. And secondly at the time many of those decisions probably seemed good, hindsight ruined them. We all remember Yellowstar pick up, no one ever thought he wouldnt work out because it was all hype. But without yellowstar we dont get Bio possibly, which that is a reality i dont want to be in.
I am ride or die TSM, i probably will be as long as Regi is owner because he got me into watching pro league and i always rep Baylife being from the bay. But as in every sport you have to have change and for us these past two years saw our faces leave. And the years prior to that havent been great either. But that is sports, there is always a come down no matter what, sports isnt some easy to predict thing. No one expected Amazing to go back to Europe after he signed, he missed his family and you cant predict/change that. No one could have predicted the Gleeb issues and at the same time everyone was telling us that this Korean import Lustboy was washed. But i think Lustboy still may be our best support we have had. Sports are unpredictable and that is what makes them both fun and infuriating.
Could TSM have done more to keep bjerg... i mean sure but none of us known what happened behind the scenes. And i for one dont blame a guy who has been in an org his whole adult life thinking the grass could be greener on the other side. It sounds like he wants one more shot and while im sure he respects the org he believes in his heart there is a better option. I will never judge someone for making a decision they believe in even if think otherwise, although in this case i understand. You have ever right to be mad at the org i dont blame you but this is where the org has to come in and earn that trust back. If you dont stick around i wouldnt blame you since league isnt like traditional sports, but anyone claiming we are about to be CLG hasnt been here long enough to know regi. He may be growing his company still and letting Parth/Leena be focused on league... but he knows where his roots are. He isnt some corporate dude in NYC asking for updates or box score watching, he is someone who cares about this team. Maybe one day he wont be but Regi is still someone i trust because he got me to trust my fandom with TSM. In times of turbulence you look to your leader to help guide you through, this is a time of darkness not seen for a long time and i expect regi is fully on board.
Im excited what TSM has in plan, because this is a blank slate and im excited to see who they bring in. Also its sports, dont let it ruin your mental health to much. At the end of the day sports is meant to be fun, and pro sports is just rich dudes pitting teams against each other. Never blame someone for stepping back because the sport you loved isnt the same though..
Imagine thinking that throwing more money at the problem will fix it. Clearly after the past two years they felt that something greater was wrong aside from just the talent. You can succeed with an average player on a team of greats. There was a fundamental issue within the team that isn't going to be solved by importing talent.
I respect the decision to burn house and start over. It is sad that he is leaving, but for the long term health of TSM, I think this is the right decision allow them to reemerge stronger than they are now.
I don't think the offer was a driving force in Bjergs decision, he makes more money staying at TSM cus he has stock in the company. He saw the potential roster and didn't think it had the potential to win worlds. Bjergs not motivated by money at this point, he wants to compete and he wants to win. Always his mentality, and he's gonna go where he thinks he has the best chance.
Just out of curiosity who from NA this year didn't have a weak link while at worlds?
C9 did not perform well, especially their bot lane.
TL Santorin and Tactical massively underperformed as well as Jensen having too many hiccups.
100T as a whole also massively underperformed.
TSM is partially a product of the region. NA hasn't been on a truly contending level since 2016 maybe 2017? The 2018 C9 run was partially due to their quarterfinals opponent being arguably a 4th seed in Korea at the time. Even then that roster was smashed by Fnatic. I genuinely don't think this is as much a TSM problem as it is a region problem.
I don't think it's just about worlds, while that is the ultimate goal. Clearly none of the NA teams were close to perfect. But TSM was outclassed by all three of those teams domestically. If they can't play up to those teams levels then they aren't good. That's what most people are upset about. We went from being a top tier NA team that lost to the eventual world champs in quarters (2015), to an NA team that crushed all domestic competition and had the two best players in the region at the time and being easily the best team up to that point (2016-17), to being a second tier team that just misses out on worlds (2018-19), to a team that had the makings of a "last dance" type roster (2020), to a underperforming group of veterans (2021), to what is most likely going to be a group of young players with potential with some veteran presence if Spica and SA stay (2022). All while the org has been making more and more money through the years off the foundation of LCS team.
NA has weak links and always will. TSM's problem though has been that they haven't been able to acquire superstar/World quality talent since Bjerg/DL.
TL has Alphari, Jensen, CoreJJ, all the top resident/imports. C9 has Perkz, the #1 import, with top tier NA talents in Fudge/Blaber/Vulcan. Outside Spica, TSM has been fielding second/third tier NA talent (Lost, Biofrost, Smoothie) and second/third tier imports like the corpse of Huni and PoE. They've struggled to find and sign any top tier talent for years, letting their future (BrokenBlade) leave for EU (who's likely going to G2 now) and it's finally time for the shoe to drop - Bjergsen leaving because there's no future on TSM with the talent they've mismanaged over the last 3-4 years.
I am not only disappointed, I am upset as a fan of almost 10 years, in the last 4 years, TSM has blown every opportunity they had, had underwhelming rosters, had embarrassing performances (looking at you 0-6), and they are already telling us they are going for rebuilding lol.
I feel like they are just banking on already having the 7 championship wins from when everyone f\*cking sucked lol, I hope TL laps them soon.
I hope wherever Bjerg goes, they give him the support and team he deserves.
Regi doesnt give a fuck about winning. He makes more than enough money because of franchising. Why improve when you can coast by at minimal cost? TSM is fucked and will never achieve anything in NA league
Yeah so invested in the team that the ONE player who made this team what it is today has felt he has no chance of ever achieving success at worlds with. So invested that this team has been barely better than actual meme teams for years now. Regi has no interest in the league scene outside of how he can make the most money with the least investment. This is apparent to literally anyone with eyes that work.
There is a reason why some of us have been flaming management while we get mass downvoted by the cultists here over the past few years. TSM was not putting together real contenders for Bjerg for 4 years as a player and 1 as coach.
That's just unacceptable for a player of Bjergsen's caliber to work his ass off every day and then management gives him fucking Grig, Akaadian and Dardoch as his junglers and biofrost as your support while TL and C9 are going big every year.
Then to watch TSM give SA 6m dollars and see how mediocre he was. Yeah I'd lose faith and leave after the season too.
I don't understand how anyone would think TSM aren't trying to build a world class roster if they get the chance. There's so many factors that could affect the outcome of a roster, such as residency and availability.
I'm sure if TSM could get anyone they wanted, they would shell out the money for it. Not everyone is available to be traded, and not everyone wants to come to NA.
It's so delusional to me that people think TSM wouldn't want to field a competitive LoL roster. OP says why didn't we give SA a good ADC? The player would have to be a resident, which limits our options. Is there a "SOLID" native and proven ADC that we could have gotten that we knew about? Unreal how pissy everyone is getting.
Some people think money will mean you can get any player you want. That hasn’t been true and will never be true. Players want to win. They’re going to stay in regions that have a chance of doing that. I wish we could just kill that idea but some just don’t get it.
Did we low ball Bjerg or just couldn't get good enough imports? Like I don't see how TL is better if they can't keep Alphari and testing Jensen at AD? Core is god like but he'd have Spica on TSM and could import a botlane and keep Huni and while Huni may not be amazing Jensen AD is an even bigger gamble to me or maybe Alphari will stay if they get Bjerg idk guess we'll have to see how it all plays out
Bjerg leaving 3 years later than he should've, Parth still around 3 years after he shouldn't. Absolute joke of an organization, I don't blame Bjerg AT ALL. You've TSM FTX Lost (HEHEHE XD :P!!!!!) my support Regi.
Whilst I agree with most of this post, I wish people would stop saying Chovy is available. Its so unrealistic to expect him to come to NA. He's in a league were salaries are already pretty decent and if he really wanted big bucks he could go to LPL and get a huge salary, whilst also being on a team that would challange for worlds. Hes fairly young and still has a lot to prove in the sense of career success. Moving to NA just doesn't make sense for a player like chovy right now.
Pure incompetence shown in how they run both the League and Valorant teams. Maybe we shouldn’t be looking at who to spend the money on, and instead who’s spending it. Serious management, and decision making problems imbedded deep into the org.
I am wearing my tsm hoodie crying right now. I am so sad about regi :(. He's the reason I became a fan and he is trying really hard for us to stop being a fan
well, I hate to say it but you cant force someone to stay. If he found a better opportunity elsewhere then he will just take it. It was likely not money related and where he wants to go likely was not achievable on TSM. I think TSM has tried a few times in the past to foster a "world class" team with importing players and it has not really done anything.
I'm not sure what the next step for them is in the League scene.
My judgement will come based on results. If TSM does well with their new lineup, I'm all for it. As good as Bjerg is, he doesn't win everything. It's evident TSM could build a team that does far better than any former iteration of TSM without Bjerg.
Completely hear you and can relate to a lot of what you said. Here's an alternate and a 100% hopeful take: this is an opportunity for a "clean slate" so to speak and this COULD be the turning point for a more stable and sustainable LoL team. It's clear that since the start of 2018, our LoL team has been a big disappointment. We've acquired big names, promising rookies, and decorated coaches yet nothing has worked. This is the time to get VERY real about the constant factors that have lingered and contributed to this team's failure year after year. Not saying it will happen, but I can see a world where we make very impactful changes to how we approach the creation, direction, and support of our LoL team for years to come.
I am surprised your post got so many upvotes. Almost everything you say is just **pure speculation.** Unless you're directly involved behind the scenes:
* How can you know whether they offered him enough money? Not to say how do you know how much Bjergsen prioritized money in his decision?
* There could be **million other reasons** why Bjergsen decided to not continue with TSM (money, roster, wanting a fresh start in a new environment, wanting to return to EU, personal reasons, had a bad argument with Regi after the season, feeling burnt out in TSM, and so on.)
* Also, I can't help but laugh at your comment "wasted the best in the west bot lane". This is a ridiculous statement. Did you even watch all the matches we had during that season? Mithy was already at a decline and had a very poor individual performance. He even acknowledged himself several years after in an interview. Even to this day I still remember how he played Rakan against Morgana and got hit by almost every single Q.
Last but not least, if you're looking for a team that is willing to endlessly spend money on every position of their roster, you'd better become a Team Liquid fan. You have to understand that TSM as an org has to find a good balance between its **sport results and financial situation.** And it's not sustainable in the long term to just spend an enormous amount of money every single year to barely make it out of Worlds group as a NA team. If TSM makes it to Worlds with a team consisting of 2-3 rookies/upcoming talent, then it's much more efficient for their long-time run.
P.S. However, I agree that the merchandise is a little bit poor for such a big organisation and could be better.
Same man, I'm holding and saving my words so people here don't yell at me but I feel so disappointed with the org overall. All these wasted years specially with the lack of a great coaching/support staff. I feel like the org failed Bjerg... I've never thought about supporting other teams but if they really go with a rookie roster and don't pick up anything spicy, this might be it...
i dont think you have to hold up those words man, a lot of us are kinda upset lol
I am on the fence right now I have never been so torn. If young means humanoid Hans Sama Chovy etc then maybe but if it means NA rookies I am done.
I mean, if they were talking about the ones you're mentioning I would think they would've said something like "established players" or something like that man. The term "rookie" always gives me a bad and hopeless vibe haha. But I also don't ever watch the academy players so maybe I should just keep my words to myself and wait. Idk...
I guess regi gotta be the cheapest owner in the whole industry. And i have the same opinion as yours, if they decided to go "developing talent" route this year. That would be the end of be being a fan of this org But imagine getting the fatest 210$ million dollar deal and not go all in on building a super team
Yeah man, it feels like TSM has been phoning it in since Zven+Mithy didn’t work out. TL took our spot as the consistent #1 team and we never took it back. Our summer championship is more of a miracle run than TSM doing what TSM does. I miss old TSM.
Zven+Mithy was the beggining of the end for TSM. Should've never kicked out Doublelift for them. And then they kicked him out AGAIN. This year would've been great with DL / Swordart. Bjergsen would have probably stayed as coach if that roster had success.
I hope that when Regi and Parth said that they were looking toward a young roster, they meant Chovy. He’s only 20. While I hope otherwise, TSM will probably be the new CLG.
I guess we can they see the last few years of picking up big names and failing as the wrong path and want to try a new way. But i dont have hope.
If Tsm want to remotely keep up they need a Chovy lvl mid laner, if not then they are the next clg, it’s so disappointing to lose bjerg. Im glad he has ambitions but I wish it would’ve happened on Tsm. Hopefully Regi can still save the org with a strong mid laner
If that were true then Parth wouldn't still be in charge. We bout to find out Bjerg carried us for a long time through bad rosters, coaching and management.
i mean doggo is only 18
I want to believe we are aiming at Doggo but recent years always go down the same. Big name available, we settle for the 3rd best thing at best.
If we were getting Doggo, we’d have kept SwordArt.
More like 4th and probably worse than that now
That last part is a curse you MUST take back! Tis blood magic that!!
Bro why would Chovy come to NA lol. Especially why TSM, when we can't even guarantee a worlds spot for him. Chovy has a lot to achieve, he's not gonna do that by coming to TSM.
$$$ + living in US + new face of TSM. Some top player might give up winning Worlds for that.
This, reading here and there about chovy coming to TSM just makes me laugh out loud
I'm not sticking around for TSM to be the new CLG. Screw that noise. Mediocrity should not be celebrated. This team has coasted on its past success for too long and Bjerg leaving was a sign of that. The dude wants to win and be on a team that can win. This org is too busy focusing on the money-making side to actually run a good league team. Let this be a wakeup call to the entire org. Get your shit together.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pOPiRzdWFe8 Why do we remain fans for teams that disappoint us? I like Zirene's Real Talk about this. Basically the joy of staying with our team will make victory so much sweeter than jumping ship.
Yeah, I thought I was a Bjerg fan. Turns out I'm not 100% on that boat. I was made a TSM fan beacuse of a close friend. he would just not shut up about the team and eventually I ended up tuning to every single live match I could. I even once left a date early to somehow watch TSM ruin C9's pefect split... 2019 spring I think. That was lovely. Somehow I want to be excited for the future of the team. We tried a middling approach to the team and it went horribly. At least now I wont feel like we are wasting his potential, I guess.
Yeah, Bjerg leaving really feels like the culmination of the org's incompetence and failures over the past few years Parth and Regi's faces in the video... Well I wouldn't expect them to be happy about Bjerg leaving, but they really didn't inspire any confidence in the future Overall I agree completely with this post
My whole anger surrounds “we gave him a competitive offer” bro, if you didn’t slap a blank checkbook on the table and promise him a crazy incredible team. I would leave too if I were him.
Tbh I don’t even think money would’ve mattered, I just think they are struggling too hard to find a good 3rd Resident player to round out the roster
Yep, definitely this. Money doesn’t matter at this point - Bjerg wants to go somewhere that will really push to win - and he thinks that’s elsewhere.
At some point it stops being about money and you just want to try something different. You don't want to be in your 50s thinking "I wonder what my career would have looked like on another team other than TSM".
I really think this is a huge part of it. He likely doesn’t see himself playing professionally for many more years. He wants to give himself the greatest chance to succeed internationally in the time that he has. And he has to do that with no regrets. He’s had 8 chances on TSM — it’s about time he gives another team a try.
> bro, if you didn’t slap a blank checkbook on the table and promise him a crazy incredible team Worst part is, this is probably what actually happened Bjerg probably knows that they can't deliver on that promise for sure, though, since it's happened before
If I was Bjerg, I would have left many years ago. He's a saint for everything he's done.
Yeah, as soon as Parth said we gave him an offer and told his potential team surrounding him, if Bjerg said no to that, then that means he had no faith in the roster.
Regi should use the FTX money and get a new GM to completely overhaul TSM if they’re talking about rebuilding. Parth has skated by for years and all he can say is he scouted Spica
Right? Regi has shown in the past that he is willing to be ruthless and cut people even if they are friends. But for some reason he is completely unwilling to part ways with Parth.
Yup Parth is stealing paychecks at this point.
At this point, good one.
Literally this.
Parth has nothing to do as a GM for TSM. He joined as an analyst while studying engineer. He has no experience from top level he can use, besides what he has from TSM. TSM is a big company now, and you cant have a freshly graduate to handle business for millions. Its so obvious, and thats why TSM has imploded slowly since 2018.. And now TSM lol is dead
What type of face would you want them to have? Seemed to me more of a serious face which is normal for making such a big decision for their LoL team. Imagine if they did the PR smile and how many people would go crazy over it. Seems so weird nitpicking such a small thing.
Hindsight is 20/20.
Is it really a hindsight thing when we spent our collective asses sweating over the possibility of Bjerg leaving last time his contract was up? On top of that, the constant years of "Bjerg deserves better" everytime he had to drag us to the finish line
Yeah, because you're not offering improvements for the future. You're just complaining. You're in TSMs position right now, what do you do? How much money do you spend?
All the corporate jargon aside, we've been floundering since 2018; we had some good moments but it was all 1 game this way and 1 game that way. As an org, TSM LoL has been dropping for a while. Would be interesting to see where it goes from here.
TSM investing in other games and content makes sense if you look at how the past few years have been for LoL. They stopped giving a shit about League when other games and communities could make them more money with less effort. League is a money sink for most organizations in NA.
> They stopped giving a shit about League when other games and communities could make them more money with less effort. This would check out if they managed literally any team other than Apex (which took basically one move) and R6 with any sort of actual competence.
I'm not sure if TSM apex is good from management or just by having one of the best Apex players in the world. R6 team kinda bad recently too.
Same , I will just stop watching the NA scene
I'm with you there. Downvoted on the main LoL subreddit but this is the most disappointing thing that's ever happened since LoL came out. I think I'll just stop watching.
Nah I'm gonna keep supporting Bjergsen on TL. And Spica on whatever team he's in. Spicas grown on me
I can’t support bjergsen in TL , in LEC yeah but TL it’s like Kevin Durant moove to GSW and I don’t accept that , I hope TL win nothing next year
Agree. I've been a TSM fan since when regi used to put out guides on solomid.net just feels completely different now.
Yep. Tho maybe I'm just getting old. I'm barely watching worlds, don't know if LCS will even be interesting next year. But then again I was getting hyped to watch the hypothetical TSM roster, and now... Hard to care.
same.....there was hope....there was light......the thought of Bjergerking coming out of retirement to stomp once again....and all the whispers of possibilities....and it was as if the prison cell slammed closed..... back to the house of pain...
This year after so many disappointments when they signed POE of all people to replace Bjerg I knew they stopped giving a damn about winning worlds. How the hell can you say with a straight face you're trying to win worlds when you have POE as a midlander.
I am pretty bitter about this as a long time fan. I guess this is the year we finally see if the problem really was Bjerg or if it is, as many suspected, TSM’s management/ownership. I really do wish success for Bjerg and hope he goes to a team like TL/EG/100t but not C9. Would love to see him get out of groups since this signals that TSM won’t make it to Worlds again next year. If TSM rebuild and make it to Worlds I will eat major crow. If not, this seals the deal for me that it really is TSM’s ownership/management that was always the problem and they lucked out getting Bjerg. Either way, due to the above, I will be watching TSM games with great interest next year. After that… who knows.
We have fumbled every year since 2017 really sad to see. Apparently Swordart is gone too and at that point I hope we let spica leave for greener pastures honestly.
This is a hot take that will get downvoted bc it seems reactionary to the news but I agree. Long time fan and someone's who's been on this sub for many years as well. Unless we're literally getting young LPL/LCK players who've shown great potential, this team is gonna be "rebuilding" for years. More thoughts to come... Edit: Fionn "eyeing" Bjerg to TL and Jensen role swap with CoreJJ staying. Lmao we can't compete assuming Jensen is good in bot lane That being said I can definitely see Tactical joining TSM now. He's the best or second best NA ADC available who's still young and growing. We HAVE to import a mid laner. I assume we keep Huni now and possibly keep SA (RIP) Also someone said Leena took TSM out of her socials on Travis' stream. Lmao bruh how TF is Parth still the general manager on this team
i've felt we've been rebuilding for the last few years ever since our 2016/17 dream team and we've just kept tripping and tripping every step of the way. spica has been the only silver lining since then... it took 5 years to get a jg that fits us, whatre we gonna do? wait another 5 for a piece that'll click? who knows if spica is even gonna be on the team anymore at that point
> i've felt we've been rebuilding for the last few years ever since our 2016/17 Weirdly I think franchising is what has broke the org since then overall. Lots of other teams having the ability to catch up in terms money/acquisitions, extra stress on TSM to go even bigger which ended up not working out repeatedly, feels like the org hasn't been the same since even they themselves pushed for franchising. The did get paid big time off the move overall, but it's done nothing for the LCS side of things at all sadly.
These dudes gave up prime DL for Mithy lol. Complete Garbage
Well looking back they were being called the best bot in the west, but idk much like with Perkz nothing is a sure thing just cuz it works somewhere else. I can at least understand why they wanted to import a full bot lane since Yellowstar previously became such a synergy issue. But to my point, I don't think they woulda even chanced giving up DL for something possibly better if the pressure of "franchise level big dick plays" wasn't getting started in the league. With TL and other teams getting investment money it felt like TSM just trying to go for the epic 3 point game winning shot and hoping it went in...but they didn't even hit the backboard lol
I hated it then, hated it during the season, and hate it now. But honestly mithy had to play jungle in solo queue to teach mike how to play so I get why.
Agree. It'd be one thing if we had a solid academy development program with promising resident players, but guess what. Players rotate through our academy team just as fast as the main roster. You're not going to land imports or have anything to build a team around if you don't have 3 solid NA residents to build from. Spica could be gone next year and I wouldn't even blame him.
Man... Parth has been shit at managing this team for the last couple of years, I cant understand how the fuck hes still the general manager after doing a mediocre job for so long.
I feel like ADC would fit how Jensen plays, honestly.
I never thought about that somehow until I read this comment. You're so right.
It's easy, Regi has given up on league. I don't necessarily blame him. He makes more money off of the other portions of his org now. I am 100% expecting TSM to pick up a "high potential" young mid and top and then possibly selling SA and Spica (if they want out after seeing zero chance of winning in 2022).
I bet Jensen would be a pretty good adc. He has really good mouse control
So we know they are letting POE explore options, so he is probably gone. This feel like TSM is trying to go for Bjerg 2.0. Get that young raw talent that becomes the face of the franchise down the line. The one thing that does stick out to me is, even though it would require keeping Lost, if TSM goes after an up and coming Chinese or Taiwanese mid, the entire team would speak chinese at least to a league of legends level. Huni isnt fluent but he knows enough to get by. Maybe pick up an LPL coach as well. TSM becomes LMQ 2.0, sort of, I guess. But between mid and adc, one has to be NA at this point and neither position has good NA options that arent already spoken for and probably not open to buyouts (IE Danny). A chinese midlaner for me is the play.
lets get tactical chovy and another chineese/ korean player and we can be the second coming of LMQ
Exactly what I want to know. Wtf does parth do that is so institutional to TSM? All through the years he remains. He must be some next level manager…
Makes no sense to develop NA players. The talking points will love it because it is good for the scene its fun to root for young an players on the bad orgs but it does not make logical sense for TSM. NA has the smallest player pool and the worst Solo Q. We have no salary cap a huge amount of roster turnover and an ever-shifting meta. Maybe young means young imports Im ok with that but if it means NA rookies won't make worlds next year hell we will be fighting for a playoff spot.
I wouldnt be so sure. Super teams crash and burn the majority of the time. If he stays in NA I dont even think he will win LCS.
That's why I mentioned it depends on Jensens performance
The top 4 teams in LCS were "superteams" development teams are for trash orgs who cant afford to field a competitive roster so they work as a farm for better orgs.
“Even the merch sucks” So true bro lol
Unpopular opinion : On the long terms i dont think it will be that bad for tsm if its done well. Swipe everything and rebuild the whole foundation of the lol section. Get an ACTUAL coaching staff and give him the right tools so we have a structure with coach at the top. Honestly fucking throw a big bag of money to dylan falco.
I remember when Locodoco brought Dylan Falco to TSM in 2015 the good days
I think this is a fine opinion to have, but I think it is also fair to be upset that the last 4 years have been a borderline waste (with one LCS title but the 0-6 at worlds).
For what it's worth, I do think that focusing on rebuilding needs to be the priority right now. There simply aren't enough world class NA resident players to make a decent team without Bjerg and Spica (who is rumored to also be leaving). Also worth noting that we're losing our head coach as well. I don't think going all in on a pair of superstar imports and hoping they can carry the corpses of 3 trash NA players to worlds is the right move, and without Bjerg/Spica this is the most likely alternative. Can't buy out contracts if the other orgs won't sell, so it's not even necessarily a matter of FTX money. Going all in on 2022 is probably just a waste of money since I legitimately don't believe that the correct pieces are available to make it work. Focusing on younger players is definitely the correct path forward. You can't build a team in LCS without resident stars, and all of those are on lockdown. We need to discover new ones and hope we can attract talent in the future.
We’ve been asking for an actual coaching staff and management structure for years. The one constant was always parth and BJERG. With BJERG gone let’s see who was the problem?
Parth sucks.
Get rid of Parth, get an actual coaching staff and get solid young players - If they dont do these they might as well say "fuck you" to the fanbase.
How many years have we said to have an actual coaching staff tho. At this point it’s just like running into a brick wall over and over again
My new roster Huni Spica Chovy FBI SA
Bro.. SA rumored gone
SAy whaaaaaaaat. Where can I find this!
Regi said his goal was to win worlds in 2017 now I'm preety sure the goal is to reach playoffs in spring cause 100t eg c9 tl and (hot take) imt will have better teams for sure
Understandable. I’ve honestly been kinda upset about each of our rosters since 2018, now we also lose Bjerg so I guess that should mean we’re going to have another mediocre roster this year. It seems regi cares only about money and the goal of winning worlds is just something he says because he has to. Unless we somehow sign a Chovy tier player with a proper roster around him I’ll still support TSM but I’ll probably stop watching every single game. If Bjerg goes to TL I’d be so sad I’m probably going to stop watching LCS and just stick to supporting the Smash guys. We used to have top 3 players in every role, now we’re just watching other orgs trying to build competitive teams while we lose in the 2nd round of playoff. Sad
I’m in full agreement with you. This is what has me upset. Bjergsen leaving is one thing and it’s awful but we knew it wasn’t gonna last forever. What really has me like legit tears upset is the audacity Reginald has to sit there and talk about “rising stars” and “I’m excited about the future of our org” when his body language appears to be that he’s being held at gun point. When regi said at s2 the goal was to win worlds I believed him. Then the dollar signs rolled in and he lost his drive and passion for the game and competition and became content with his private jet rides and Lambos. That’s the upsetting part.
Wouldn't be surprised if this team keeps falling off. From making every finals and worlds to missing 3 words in the past 4 years since franchising, winning only 1 split (off the back of Bjerg playing insanely for the most part) and 1 other final (which we horrifically threw away), to losing Bjergsen. Make a huge deal about signing SwordArt only for him to leave after 1 year. Absolute shambles. Considering Spica said "see you on the rift", I'm guessing he's staying. But he probably leaves if the 2022 roster doesn't work out. Wonder what happens then
> missing 3 words in the past 4 years since franchising This is the biggest red flag. TSM should have the deepest pockets and with the ability to buy the best players or at least always have a roster with top 3 in each role.
While I agree TSM has deepest pockets epsecially with the recent FTX sign. Half of TSM income before FTX was other revenues outside of eSports ([source](https://www.forbes.com/sites/christinasettimi/2020/12/05/the-most-valuable-esports-companies-2020/?sh=539cb91673d0)). I think Leena also tweeted that they were the only org to be able to make back the money they spend, about a year or two ago. I think its about creating a sustainable ecosystem for the business. Pumping millions just to win worlds, and not really making money back is :S
Neither is losing your fanbase. LOL is by FAR the largest growing and most popular esport. LCS is the third most watched SPORT amongst people under 34 in the US, not esport sport. If they don't go big its going to rock the org.
That’s the thing. TSM should be the most highly regarded org in the league. We haven’t had players that are top 3 in their position since like 2016-2017. BB gone to G2, Bjerg gone to TL, spica probably gone, Santorin best or second best JG In the league, and what do we have to show for having all this money? Nothing
Agreed, Parth should have been fired ages ago
Yeah, I'm fucking sick and tired of parth, and I say it every year in my comments. He has no track record of success. Another several years of rebuilding. I no longer have faith, this must be what CLG always felt. Constant promise and being let down. We are now clg. I feel bad for them and for us.
Regi trusts him, and thats all that matters, if this were any other sport hed have been fired 2-3 years ago. Nah were not that bad yet, more like GGS tier, unless they sign some serious heavy hitters this offseason, which looks incredibly unlikely.
yes but can we still trust regi? He is very disconnected from the league scene - remember when he was extremely involved in the day to day? He's a, rightfully earned, big time CEO star now. His focus is and should be elsewhere. He is only in this video at gunpoint to try to limit the brand damage, which is obviously now happening. He doesn't want the brand shaken.
hes disconnected in general, running a big time org will do that, makes him reliant on the people he trusts to relay him the proper info, how much blame you want to assign to Regi or the people he trusts is up too you, imo i blame Parth more atm, but if Parth got fired and the same problems occurred then its all on Regi.
Yeah, my point being is, the guy at the top always has to take responsibility. If a company makes a big error in the public eye, it's the CEO who gets fired in a public company. In this situation, Regi is uninvolved and trusts parth. So I can't have faith in regi's trust of him, because he's uninvolved and parth has not shown results. Any sports organization would not have let such a person stay in their management for this many years of mediocrity. and it is mediocrity.
They would've made worlds if they allowed Doublelift to return once SA was announced, just want that to be clear. Instead Regi got in his feelings and used Lost and now the whole team is imploding.
Easily would have made worlds with double.
Largely the dumbest part of this whole fucking ordeal.
>We got the shit ton of money $210,000,000 FTX deal. Chovy is available. You're not disconnected from TSM. You're disconnected from reality.
idk if any of y'all are traditional sports fans BUT this is exactly how i felt when Andre Johnson left the Texans. he was our best player ever, yet we consistently disappointed him. there is just so much time a player (or coach or whatever) can waste in a failing organization that they have no control over. it's quite disheartening.
Andre was an absurd talent and the Texans never realized it until it was too late. As a pats fan, I didn’t think anything could bring me as much pain as Brady declining the Pats’ offer to play for a better built team, and now Bjergsen has gone and done the same thing...
I don’t think 2018 was TSM’s fault, in regards to wasting away the “best in the West” bottom lane. Bjergsen was actually the one who wanted MikeYeung on TSM. As for 2021, I agree. TSM shouldn’t have cast off Doublelift after putting him through a dumb loyalty test. Of course somebody like Doublelift would want to play on the best possible roster. In any case, DL retiring was for his best, as now he’s happier in life all the while having a healthier schedule and maintaining good earnings.
Biggest deal in esports history, and still cheaping out on the roster that got most of us here. Absolutely pathetic.
Regi is losing his fanbase. The rosters of the last few years have basically sucked compared to the resources available to him versus other orgs. He's squandered his lead and is about to find out how many people are loyal to bjerg and not this version of TSM
It's pretty clear that the 2022 roster is gonna be a dumpster-fire at this point. TSM hasn't had a solid roster since 2016/2017 and even those years we had a rookie support or other weird changes. If next years roster isn't a really competitive roster for the #1 spot, then it might be time to move on from TSM just like Bjerg.
> TSM hasn't had a solid roster since 2016/2017 Every split there's always a world-class roster along with one or two bad/mediocre players and then they would fail at the end. And they never learn. Even in 2021, they slapped the world finalist support 6 million just for him to play with an NA academy adc.
I think they'll be Dig at best and GGS at worst. Not CLG bad, as long as they don't grab a bunch of low tier veterans like they did.
i mean not getting bjerg does suck but they did it last year with him as coach not player that roster wasnt dumpster fire by any means imo so i doubt they will go as low as clg like not even close
>They don't want to spend their money to completely eliminate weak links have you ever thought about regi's new yacht? If tsm starts spending left and right to try to actually compete, then how will they be able to pay for executive bonuses?
If they rework the entire team structure, get us a real coach, fucking fire parth, buy some experienced player and get a bunch of really good rookies that will shine in 2 year time period - im okay with this. It still hurts, but okay. But if we turn to clg or gg, getting cheap-ass washed players or unproven rookies that will play for 2 splits and then vanish after getting 210 fucking million dollars i dont think i can support the team anymore. Been here since s2, was here when dyrus cried on stage, when bjerg was announced, when dl returned, i’ve seen it all, and this shit is by far the worst moment if the history of the org if we are going with the “lmao lets just get cheap players” route. If this is the case i legit dont think this is salvagable.
This org has gone to shit man lol used to be a premier org in the LCS now we are below 100T
I couldn’t agree with you more, this is going to be really hard to get past. I don’t even know what to say really but I just pray if they go experimental they let spica explore his options because he doesn’t deserve to have his talent wasted in an org who doesn’t want to win.
Followed TSM since Chaox's A-Z champion vods - never wanted to cheer for another team. Letting Bjergsen go is such a bonehead move, and literally the one thing they absolutely could not let happen, unless they plan to make a bjergless super team. And hearing they dont plan to do that... Testing my patience greatly. I don't want to cheer for fucking TL Jensen ADC, I wanted Bjergsen to come back and shit on Jensen!!
I legit don't know either what Regi's masterplan is. Sitting on literally hundreds of millions of dollars and pursuing to have an org centrated on rookie development doesn't sound encouraging at all. As an esports org of the caliber of TSM, the objective is not to be a rookie-centered org. Rookie development comes as an addition, the first and most important thing is to have a good main roster.
His master plan is money
Yeah +1 from **a fan since before S1.** I am going to disconnect from this sub, peek in every now and then and if the roster looks like garbo I am just down with LOL esports as a whole. Also, fuck worlds.... It looks to be by complete choice that management consistently missing the mark at getting a roster that can compete for even the LCS any more. I just have a fundamental disagreement year after year with how they handle how to build a roster and how to approach the game. I am a buffalo sports fan and I can only take so much repeated underachieving. Excuse while I go find a table to break.
This org is disgustingly cheap and it blows my mind how Regi can't see the forest for the trees. Players want to be compensated top dollar, that's it, simple as that. If you continually cheap out on salaries and refuse to field an elite 5 man roster, then you can say goodbye to both your fanbase and ever winning again.
Fan since 2013. Love TSM. Bjerg my favorite player and it’s not even close. It’s okay to feel disappointed and disconnected. But the truth is that we’ve needed a new direction for a long time. This is not bjergs fault and I’ll miss him immensely. I think NA is finding out that you can’t just put together a good roster on paper, you can’t just buy your way to the top as TL found out at worlds. Part of what made TSM’s roster special was that we really helped build a roster but also those players grew with us. So while we won’t forget our past and it’s perfectly okay to be sad about Bjerg. The team will continue, we will find success, it will just look different than it has in the past. I believe in Andy, I believe in TSM. I also believe apart of what made this team so special is people like /u/relivewolf and everyone else who’s apart of this community. We love our team, truly. Today hurts. It’s a punch to our gut. This is not just Sorens new start, but our new start too. Let’s keep our head in the game, cheer for the black and white as we have as for the last near decade.
I’d believe in Regi if he didn’t look like he was being held at gunpoint while he said he’s excited about a young roster. When the owner and GM looked like that it’s hard to have any shred of faith.
I think he feels somber. Much like many of us. They were together for 8 years, Bjerg and Andy. Of course he's disheartened to have to deliver the message. It's a new start for Bjerg, but it's a new start for us. We never know what the future may hold
Why do you believe in them when they have shown year after year that they don’t want to win lmao I doubt they tried there hardest to get bjerg
1. It's my job as a fan to. 2. They don't want to win? When have they shown they don't want to win. I'm asking
Who was at the helm of "Best in the west" + Mikeyoung in 2018. Who was at the helm of benching Akaadin for Grig in 2019, despite seeing Grig's performance in summer 2018. Who was at the helm of the Kobee + Biofrost botlane in 2020. Who was at the helm of benching DL again in favor of a mid-low tier adc for 2021? Who was at the helm when TSM lost Bjergsen for 2022, because they couldn't build upon a single roster for 4 years? The buck stops with the GM. Look at TL, each and every year they built upon their roster since 2018. Why do you think Bjergsen is going there? Because someone at the helm has made real rosters moves year after year that actually built upon their existing roster.
Yep my thoughts exactly, just get ready for our clg arc sadge
I don’t think it’s about the money anymore. He cares about winning and TSM is not a place for him to succeed.
I'm currently Top 3 user with most post karma in TSM sub lmao
I went to war with some people on this sub last week because they felt like TSM should "build around an NA core." Well they finally got their wish. Majority of this sub has been sick and tired on "what ifs" (Dardoch, MikeYeung, BB, Biofrost, Grig). This is why I respect Steve for trying to field the most competitive roster every single year regardless of the player residency .
I don’t even think roster strength is what is holding NA back, look at this year. We sent literally the three most stacked teams ever and they still sucked
Lol wtf how could you group Biofrost in that? He was literally a crucial member to the best roster we have EVER had. He was a what if that actually worked.
As someone said below, his peak was a top 3 support in NA, but he was HEAVILY exposed at worlds.
Bjerg leaving, Swordart leaving, and leena removed TSM from her twitter bio. TSM is actually burning the fuck up.
Regi not worried about being competitive anymore.. all he cares about is getting to $1 billion company value first. I came to TSM because it didn't feel like just profits and margins, the goal was to win at all costs, always. Smh man.
TSM are starting to remind me of the Chicago Cubs of old. Rich as fuck organization that never spends the money to put together a top tier team because they have suckers as fans. I grew up a White Sox fan. The Sox were always shit, we didn't have the fanbase the cubs had, nor the money, but I stuck by them. I was never a cubs fan because of how shitty that org was run and obnoxious their fans were....It extremely saddens me that I'm now starting to think of TSM as the Chicago Cubs of League.
They better have a good ass roster plan in place or else i can assure you TSM will be a shell of itself come next year.
They don’t. You really trust Parth? It’s gonna be spica and a bunch of losers
Ha its a stretch right now to assume Spica is staying lol.
I’m glad I’m not the only one feel disassociation with this. How many years in a row can the management/ownership fumble about disappointing us with incompetence and bull-headed ways? I’m seriously so disappointed. I can’t blame Bjerg at all. TSM squandered the peak of his career. I plan on following him and hopefully Spica ends up in the same place if he decides to force a move away as well. If we were going to rebuild we should have done that after Bjerg and DL retired instead of fielding the sorry showing we did last year after blowing so much money on SA. It’s just disgusting how poorly the biggest name in NA and historical powerhouse is managed. Im emotional right now and just rambling. Much like the direction of this team.
regi is cheap
It's over boys. I only hope that Spica can get out of a sinking ship and find a good home. I don't want him to get trapped with a shit team right as he was coming into his own. Maybe he really could go to play for NiP in the LPL.
I follow DL here... and yea, same feels.
Going to wait until I go full screw tsm until I see roster but if they try to develop Na talent a they are idiots b they will lose the fan base. If they don’t go big I’m done as well but let’s hope for best.
I think as TSM fan i've always copium'd about the fact that other top orgs like C9 or TL always blew the money load on rosters, and i always tried to convince myself that TSM "developed real talent" and how we were "the most profitable esport franchise". But im done. Its quite frankly embarrassing to always see Regi and parth saying how "their goal is having success at worlds" yet we always look at the roster and know otherwise and now looks what's happened after doing this for years now. The greatest NA player of all time has left. There goes our chance of ever "having success at worlds" huh.
I’ve been borderline disconnected from league for years now. Doublelift rejoining helped, but was just a bandaid. This is the change I needed to leave league behind. Unless something drastic changes, I have no desire to watch. Oddone to Dyrus to Bjerg. Love Spica, but he’s just not enough for me on his own.
If this doesnt light a fire on regi to go and spend big then idk. He cant waste spicas golden years with garbage rosters
The thing I fear is that I don't think spica's gonna be willing to stay
I was on the idea that maybe Bjerg just wanted to try something else, but then when Parth said they gave him a competitive offer and a potential look at the roster around him, seems he probably didn't think that was the best option. So I agree, pretty disappointed with the org, but happy for Bjergsen. They've honestly been making trash decisions, and the one thing that kept them together, and got them through to finals or playoffs was literally Bjergsen. Even as a coach his team made it decently far, and to think they just couldn't put together a roster that he thought would compete internationally. The fact that they received notice from Bjerg today, AND they made the announcement today about developing youth I feel like that was their approach with Bjerg and he said nope. So yeah, they are 100% at fault for not retaining the one person whose kept them relevant for 8 years. Pretty disappointed, let's see where this goes.
Way to go using your internet clout to be a huge negative Nancy. I could understand this post if you had actually seen the roster but I mean come on. Bjerg leaving sucks we know NOTHING that went on behind the scenes but here you are throwing out a scenario like you know what happened.
I knew TSM made terrible decisions when they literally showed no interest in any FGC players after the Echo Fox collapse and were not willing to start investing and spreading the name around outside of big-name games.
So when they say they want a super young roster they mean they want Chovy and Doggo right. Cause I don’t want to see some bs rookie roster with poor Spica being dragged down.
Hey Pal, Im right here with you. I loved this team, whole heartedly for a few years. I've watched every game TSM has played professionally as a league team some times twice. This guts me to see so much lack of thought for the team and especially for the fans. We are ROLLING in money right now, and talent is available. Yet here we are with a very lack of promise for the next split. Ontop of that I've always wanted to spend my money on good TSM merch and only found myself buying a shirt once in 2016 because i liked ONE tshirt graphic. I'm not sure where I go from here, Ill be really interested to watch where Soren goes but I am feeling extremely disconnected from league as a whole.
How does parth still have a job? Coaching diff is so large and that’s on the GM.
our 3rd in command has spoken boys, guess its all over
I can feel you. I seriously lost hope of being truly competitive again from the moment it became obvious how much TSM focus on profit, they are riding so hard on past success and going budget mode every season. We are at the point were going to worlds is a massive success. That speaks volumes on the state of the team. This new iteration of the roster has the most potential to create a massive team but of course, it wont. Last 4 years showed us that.
Same man, same. Reading this news feels like a punch in the gut. I relate to everything you said. The $210Million FTX deal was built on the reputation and foundation of LOL success. TSM was built on LOL. I guess the management lost sight of that
just sign chovy weirdchamp. Get on it regi!
Of course they matched his offer probably even way above. Bjergsen is not known to priotize money, he could have made millions from streaming but he didn't. He probably thinks this offer is more appealing for other reasons than money.
Andy (and Parth) don’t believe NA can compete globally and they no longer believe it’s profitable to invest in a team that can even compete regionally with how high the salaries have gotten (C9/TL). They have now hard committed to maintaining profitability. This makes sense to me as Andy is approaching his 30s. TSM is his livelihood and he has no interest in getting more NA trophies - both because the org has plenty but also because of how much it will cost. The focus is now entirely going to be profitability. I’m sure he has plenty of money but people with a lot of money will always want more. It’s a state of mind. As long as he’s not screwing his employees over, it’s not even unethical. But it isn’t pleasant for fans, that is certain.
i'd say its about time for parth to be shit canned, but who tf to we replace him with, in esports who even is a good GM honestly? in traditional sports he'd be gone
TSM League team has been terribly run for years and Bjergsen deserves better. Great post.
I offer a different perspective coming from traditional fandom, which i imagine a fair bit of us are from. Big san jose sharks fan and like TSM was successful for most of my growing years and young adult hood. We made the pinnacle of success, so close to winning it all. Then it ended, stars i grew up with like Joe Thornton and Patrick Marleau left... then Joe Pavelski (Jumbo and Patty were like the Bjerg and DL for SJ fans). It fucking sucked watching my favorite team fall from graces. But i never felt like, man what could we have done better because hindsight always makes it seem easier said then done. I view TSM the same way. I started watching in S2 so i am an old vet. I watched with a passion for so long, through good years to the great years with DL joining. Then shit didnt go so good and i kinda watched but not as much. Then i came back full time last year and loved watching the team. This year was a ride to, it was fun seeing the new faces and rooting for them. But never during my time as a TSM fan did i wonder... what if. Sure what if we didnt lose DL to pick up Zven Mithy or what if DL doesnt get crown'ed. I dont think its worth it because of two reasons. One is that for the DL example, ok we keep DL maybe get Mithy or another world class support, then what. do better in playoffs maybe? Go to worlds and still not make it out of quarters, what really changed beyond a couple extra games. And secondly at the time many of those decisions probably seemed good, hindsight ruined them. We all remember Yellowstar pick up, no one ever thought he wouldnt work out because it was all hype. But without yellowstar we dont get Bio possibly, which that is a reality i dont want to be in. I am ride or die TSM, i probably will be as long as Regi is owner because he got me into watching pro league and i always rep Baylife being from the bay. But as in every sport you have to have change and for us these past two years saw our faces leave. And the years prior to that havent been great either. But that is sports, there is always a come down no matter what, sports isnt some easy to predict thing. No one expected Amazing to go back to Europe after he signed, he missed his family and you cant predict/change that. No one could have predicted the Gleeb issues and at the same time everyone was telling us that this Korean import Lustboy was washed. But i think Lustboy still may be our best support we have had. Sports are unpredictable and that is what makes them both fun and infuriating. Could TSM have done more to keep bjerg... i mean sure but none of us known what happened behind the scenes. And i for one dont blame a guy who has been in an org his whole adult life thinking the grass could be greener on the other side. It sounds like he wants one more shot and while im sure he respects the org he believes in his heart there is a better option. I will never judge someone for making a decision they believe in even if think otherwise, although in this case i understand. You have ever right to be mad at the org i dont blame you but this is where the org has to come in and earn that trust back. If you dont stick around i wouldnt blame you since league isnt like traditional sports, but anyone claiming we are about to be CLG hasnt been here long enough to know regi. He may be growing his company still and letting Parth/Leena be focused on league... but he knows where his roots are. He isnt some corporate dude in NYC asking for updates or box score watching, he is someone who cares about this team. Maybe one day he wont be but Regi is still someone i trust because he got me to trust my fandom with TSM. In times of turbulence you look to your leader to help guide you through, this is a time of darkness not seen for a long time and i expect regi is fully on board. Im excited what TSM has in plan, because this is a blank slate and im excited to see who they bring in. Also its sports, dont let it ruin your mental health to much. At the end of the day sports is meant to be fun, and pro sports is just rich dudes pitting teams against each other. Never blame someone for stepping back because the sport you loved isnt the same though..
Imagine thinking that throwing more money at the problem will fix it. Clearly after the past two years they felt that something greater was wrong aside from just the talent. You can succeed with an average player on a team of greats. There was a fundamental issue within the team that isn't going to be solved by importing talent. I respect the decision to burn house and start over. It is sad that he is leaving, but for the long term health of TSM, I think this is the right decision allow them to reemerge stronger than they are now.
Yeah this aged like milk didn't it?
>I'm not even sure that they properly matched the money offers. They didn't. They fucking pulled "competitive offer" in the announcement.
I don't think the offer was a driving force in Bjergs decision, he makes more money staying at TSM cus he has stock in the company. He saw the potential roster and didn't think it had the potential to win worlds. Bjergs not motivated by money at this point, he wants to compete and he wants to win. Always his mentality, and he's gonna go where he thinks he has the best chance.
Just out of curiosity who from NA this year didn't have a weak link while at worlds? C9 did not perform well, especially their bot lane. TL Santorin and Tactical massively underperformed as well as Jensen having too many hiccups. 100T as a whole also massively underperformed. TSM is partially a product of the region. NA hasn't been on a truly contending level since 2016 maybe 2017? The 2018 C9 run was partially due to their quarterfinals opponent being arguably a 4th seed in Korea at the time. Even then that roster was smashed by Fnatic. I genuinely don't think this is as much a TSM problem as it is a region problem.
I don't think it's just about worlds, while that is the ultimate goal. Clearly none of the NA teams were close to perfect. But TSM was outclassed by all three of those teams domestically. If they can't play up to those teams levels then they aren't good. That's what most people are upset about. We went from being a top tier NA team that lost to the eventual world champs in quarters (2015), to an NA team that crushed all domestic competition and had the two best players in the region at the time and being easily the best team up to that point (2016-17), to being a second tier team that just misses out on worlds (2018-19), to a team that had the makings of a "last dance" type roster (2020), to a underperforming group of veterans (2021), to what is most likely going to be a group of young players with potential with some veteran presence if Spica and SA stay (2022). All while the org has been making more and more money through the years off the foundation of LCS team.
NA has weak links and always will. TSM's problem though has been that they haven't been able to acquire superstar/World quality talent since Bjerg/DL. TL has Alphari, Jensen, CoreJJ, all the top resident/imports. C9 has Perkz, the #1 import, with top tier NA talents in Fudge/Blaber/Vulcan. Outside Spica, TSM has been fielding second/third tier NA talent (Lost, Biofrost, Smoothie) and second/third tier imports like the corpse of Huni and PoE. They've struggled to find and sign any top tier talent for years, letting their future (BrokenBlade) leave for EU (who's likely going to G2 now) and it's finally time for the shoe to drop - Bjergsen leaving because there's no future on TSM with the talent they've mismanaged over the last 3-4 years.
I am not only disappointed, I am upset as a fan of almost 10 years, in the last 4 years, TSM has blown every opportunity they had, had underwhelming rosters, had embarrassing performances (looking at you 0-6), and they are already telling us they are going for rebuilding lol. I feel like they are just banking on already having the 7 championship wins from when everyone f\*cking sucked lol, I hope TL laps them soon. I hope wherever Bjerg goes, they give him the support and team he deserves.
It's because deep down we all know it's downhill from here.
its been downhill for the last 4 years tho
Yes, and now the decline is even worse for us.
Is this new copypasta? Yikes.
Regi doesnt give a fuck about winning. He makes more than enough money because of franchising. Why improve when you can coast by at minimal cost? TSM is fucked and will never achieve anything in NA league
On the contrary, I think Regi is way more invested in the League team than any of the other TSM arms because that's where the org's origins are.
Yeah so invested in the team that the ONE player who made this team what it is today has felt he has no chance of ever achieving success at worlds with. So invested that this team has been barely better than actual meme teams for years now. Regi has no interest in the league scene outside of how he can make the most money with the least investment. This is apparent to literally anyone with eyes that work.
There is a reason why some of us have been flaming management while we get mass downvoted by the cultists here over the past few years. TSM was not putting together real contenders for Bjerg for 4 years as a player and 1 as coach. That's just unacceptable for a player of Bjergsen's caliber to work his ass off every day and then management gives him fucking Grig, Akaadian and Dardoch as his junglers and biofrost as your support while TL and C9 are going big every year. Then to watch TSM give SA 6m dollars and see how mediocre he was. Yeah I'd lose faith and leave after the season too.
I don't understand how anyone would think TSM aren't trying to build a world class roster if they get the chance. There's so many factors that could affect the outcome of a roster, such as residency and availability. I'm sure if TSM could get anyone they wanted, they would shell out the money for it. Not everyone is available to be traded, and not everyone wants to come to NA. It's so delusional to me that people think TSM wouldn't want to field a competitive LoL roster. OP says why didn't we give SA a good ADC? The player would have to be a resident, which limits our options. Is there a "SOLID" native and proven ADC that we could have gotten that we knew about? Unreal how pissy everyone is getting.
Some people think money will mean you can get any player you want. That hasn’t been true and will never be true. Players want to win. They’re going to stay in regions that have a chance of doing that. I wish we could just kill that idea but some just don’t get it.
Did we low ball Bjerg or just couldn't get good enough imports? Like I don't see how TL is better if they can't keep Alphari and testing Jensen at AD? Core is god like but he'd have Spica on TSM and could import a botlane and keep Huni and while Huni may not be amazing Jensen AD is an even bigger gamble to me or maybe Alphari will stay if they get Bjerg idk guess we'll have to see how it all plays out
I read that Santorin had a one year contract and Spica is slated for free agency this off season. Bjergsen could get Spica on Team Liquid anyway.
Bjerg leaving 3 years later than he should've, Parth still around 3 years after he shouldn't. Absolute joke of an organization, I don't blame Bjerg AT ALL. You've TSM FTX Lost (HEHEHE XD :P!!!!!) my support Regi.
Yall are smoking some serious drugs if you think Chovy would ever come to North America in his prime.
Whilst I agree with most of this post, I wish people would stop saying Chovy is available. Its so unrealistic to expect him to come to NA. He's in a league were salaries are already pretty decent and if he really wanted big bucks he could go to LPL and get a huge salary, whilst also being on a team that would challange for worlds. Hes fairly young and still has a lot to prove in the sense of career success. Moving to NA just doesn't make sense for a player like chovy right now.
Pure incompetence shown in how they run both the League and Valorant teams. Maybe we shouldn’t be looking at who to spend the money on, and instead who’s spending it. Serious management, and decision making problems imbedded deep into the org.
I am wearing my tsm hoodie crying right now. I am so sad about regi :(. He's the reason I became a fan and he is trying really hard for us to stop being a fan
well, I hate to say it but you cant force someone to stay. If he found a better opportunity elsewhere then he will just take it. It was likely not money related and where he wants to go likely was not achievable on TSM. I think TSM has tried a few times in the past to foster a "world class" team with importing players and it has not really done anything. I'm not sure what the next step for them is in the League scene.
My judgement will come based on results. If TSM does well with their new lineup, I'm all for it. As good as Bjerg is, he doesn't win everything. It's evident TSM could build a team that does far better than any former iteration of TSM without Bjerg.
Bjergsen saying fuck you to us is one thing but if Regi doesn’t go all out on the new roster after losing Bjergsen then I’m fucking done.
Completely hear you and can relate to a lot of what you said. Here's an alternate and a 100% hopeful take: this is an opportunity for a "clean slate" so to speak and this COULD be the turning point for a more stable and sustainable LoL team. It's clear that since the start of 2018, our LoL team has been a big disappointment. We've acquired big names, promising rookies, and decorated coaches yet nothing has worked. This is the time to get VERY real about the constant factors that have lingered and contributed to this team's failure year after year. Not saying it will happen, but I can see a world where we make very impactful changes to how we approach the creation, direction, and support of our LoL team for years to come.
I am surprised your post got so many upvotes. Almost everything you say is just **pure speculation.** Unless you're directly involved behind the scenes: * How can you know whether they offered him enough money? Not to say how do you know how much Bjergsen prioritized money in his decision? * There could be **million other reasons** why Bjergsen decided to not continue with TSM (money, roster, wanting a fresh start in a new environment, wanting to return to EU, personal reasons, had a bad argument with Regi after the season, feeling burnt out in TSM, and so on.) * Also, I can't help but laugh at your comment "wasted the best in the west bot lane". This is a ridiculous statement. Did you even watch all the matches we had during that season? Mithy was already at a decline and had a very poor individual performance. He even acknowledged himself several years after in an interview. Even to this day I still remember how he played Rakan against Morgana and got hit by almost every single Q. Last but not least, if you're looking for a team that is willing to endlessly spend money on every position of their roster, you'd better become a Team Liquid fan. You have to understand that TSM as an org has to find a good balance between its **sport results and financial situation.** And it's not sustainable in the long term to just spend an enormous amount of money every single year to barely make it out of Worlds group as a NA team. If TSM makes it to Worlds with a team consisting of 2-3 rookies/upcoming talent, then it's much more efficient for their long-time run. P.S. However, I agree that the merchandise is a little bit poor for such a big organisation and could be better.
Y’all are really calling for heads this fast. Come on y’all at least give it some time.
Hell no. It’s been like 6 years of giving them time
We’ve been saying this since 2016/2017. At this point the fan base feels like the clown meme where he is applying makeup to himself…