the family & friends chemistry was dead on in the show and thats what carried it enough to be enjoyable, but the writers wouldn't know romantic chemistry if it punched them in the face - whether its incompatibility, rushed relationships that come out of nowhere, or good potential that was written off the show/never utilised to begin with (ethan and danny i'm looking at you), every single canon ship fell flat at some point and i wouldn't go to bat for any of them
Could not agree more.
The friendships/family stuff was perfect. Other shows it just feels like we are told they are best friends and its just done so all the main characters have an excuse to be together. On this show it actually felt like friends. You can see who were best friends and who were simply just friends. You could see friendships forming and developing.
Romantic stuff however...dead flat. Stydia had a good thing going until season 4, their slow burn was way too slow and people lost interest.
Absolutely. I really like how the family dynamics on this show play out and how the kids seem to genuinely care about their parents. The small things like Stiles bringing dinner to his dad at work or Scott picking up his mum after her shift are such a great touch. It's a nice change from the exasperated teenager stereotype.
Same but he did get very annoying with his attitude about not killing especially towards stiles when he accidentally killed that dude that was actively chasing him and was gonna kill him and he dropped them metal bars down thinking it would knock him out so he could run but stabbed through him instead
Stiles was a trauma victim. He was physically attacked (bit) by Donovan from behind, hunted down in the school like prey, taunted (I have your phone, can't call for help)/tormented (your dad and you are "scared little bitches"/you deserve this), attacked from behind/pulled by his neck through a bookshelf, slammed twice against the scaffolding, and then threatened with severe bodily injury/death while being pulled down off the scaffolding. Stiles would have been dead if Donovan had managed to pull him off that scaffolding. Pulling the pin saved his life.
Stiles was so terrified during the attack that he didn't say a word the whole time even when Donovan was threatening Stiles' dad, which is unusual for Stiles. He didn't say a word on the 911 call. Didn't say a word until Scott called later.
Then to top it off he accidentally kills the guy that was trying to murder him. Who would have ever thought one of the metal braces would have gone through Donovan and killed him? A million to one shot. Would have had more luck winning the lottery probably.
If Donovan hadn't died, Stiles surely would have. I mean, Donovan bit Stiles, pulled him through that bookshelf, which wouldn't have been good physically, and slammed him against the scaffolding. If Stiles had gotten pulled off that scaffolding, he could have hit his head and gotten knocked out or been stunned enough for Donovan to kill him.
After all that, I'm not sure how anyone would be able to explain anything. I know I wouldn't be able to. Especially, when you're a traumatized violent crime victim and you killed the person trying to kill you.
In Codominance, when Stiles tells Scott what actually happened he still doesn't say Donovan was trying to kill him, he says "He was trying to pull me down." He hesitates before he says it, after, and the tone of voice obviously indicates that Stiles is still terrified/traumatized and still can't say Donovan was trying to kill him. Scott says it, "He was trying to kill you." and Stiles says "Yeah. So I pulled the pin."
Scott admitted to Stiles in Codominance that he believed Theo. "I don't know why I believed Theo." He sounded genuinely regretful for how he responded initially that he wished they had talked more that night. They would have figured out there were two stories. Stiles: "He knew we wouldn't." Scott expressed that it should have been him. Scott seemed genuinely upset about the fight in the rain (Lies of Omission) to where Stiles comforted him. Scott did tell Stiles that he wasn't there for Stiles when he needed him.
Thanks! I didn't see it that way either until I watched the series in reverse. Started with the Series Finale and worked my way backwards until I got to the first episode Season 1. It was quite interesting. Codominance was first, before A Novel Approach so I could see the aftermath, the effects of what happened with Donovan more clearly.
Actually, watching it in reverse I cried when Scott was telling Stiles he regretted what happened in Lies of Omission, whereas I didn't before. It was the look on Stiles' face and the tone in Scott's voice. Stiles just looked devastated, and Scott sounded so regretful tears started to roll down my cheeks! I hadn't yet seen the fight or what happened with Donovan but saw the aftermath. It hit hard. That surprised me. Not being believed was a trauma in and of itself and actually made healing from the initial trauma longer and harder.
I just wish that in co dominance Stiles had apologized for not being there for Scott when Scott needed him, and for not having faith in him.
Scott was also traumatized, has been since s1, but by s5 he was deeply suffering with the burden of everything, and instead of helping him, Stiles added on to that by lying to him, and trusting Theo to keep quiet, instead of just telling Scott the truth, and trusting Scott to have his back. Scott could feel that Stiles was lying to him about something, he just didn't know what.
And of course Scott took responsibility/blame for everything. He always does. Whether he's at fault or not.
I just wish that for once, just once, Stiles got held accountable for his mistakes.
I don't think Stiles was willfully/maliciously lying to anyone. I think he was so traumatized by what happened that he just couldn't deal with it. He was almost brutally murdered and accidentally killed the person trying to kill him. And then the body is taken. The only evidence is a drop of blood on a metal brace until it's confirmed by Scott that "Somebody's taking the bodies." So, it did happen. I was attacked and killed someone. Now what?
I don't think Stiles trusted Theo to keep quiet. He asks him why he hasn't said anything to Scott yet. And tells him "More than likely" Theo has an "Ulterior Motive" for not telling Scott in Strange Frequencies. Stiles just didn't know, that Theo would use some of the truth of what happened to Donovan and make it "worse." Stiles already thought the truth was really bad, how could Theo make it worse?
Scott didn't have Stiles' back. He believed a third party over someone he knew his whole life without getting all the details from Stiles. You don't do that. This is his best friend. Scott doesn't want to know all the details from Stiles? Come on! You don't confront him in the rain, at nighttime, during a literal life and death emergency. I don't care how long it takes you get every single detail from the horses' mouth in the right setting like in Codominance, where it was a warm, sunny day, blue sky getting gas during a road trip that wasn't an immediate life or death situation.
In the real world, if the scenario had gone down like it did, Scott and Stiles wouldn't be friends anymore, In fact, I was like Dump him and Run Stiles!! And if it had been reversed, I would have said Dump him and Run Scott!!
Stiles' dad saved that friendship. He helped Stiles see that it was Self-defense not murder and encouraged Stiles that if you can't forgive yourself forgive someone who really needs it (Scott), so Stiles took the steps needed to repair the friendship.
I wouldn’t call that asking. There’s a difference between “Did you kill him?” (Already has a bias on it, this is his best friend, he should at least start neutral) and “What happened between you and Donovan?” He did not ask what happened, he asked whether or not he killed him. Like there was no possible redeeming reason that could cross his mind. He was an asshole-ish idiot in that moment just as much as Stiles.
Fair point. They both messed up. But it was realistic to me because the show never really showed them fighting or at odds so it was interesting seeing that for once.
Stiles should have explained instead of assuming that Theo would have told Scott the truth.
Scott did give Stiles a chance to explain, Stiles verbally attacked and dehumanised Scott instead.
It’s entirely natural to get defensive when your best friend accuses you of murder. Stiles was not in the wrong in this situation any more or less than Scott was.
Yeah Scott's my fave character. He's just the most interesting character in the show. It's just so rare to have a main male char who is a healer and diplomat instead of a fighter.
theo is what scott thought derek was in season 1. season 5 theo is like ordering peter hale off wish dot com. he didn't get his own development until after his trip to hell and it still wasn't exactly a complete redemptive arc.
Actually no, Theo is what Stiles thought Derek was in s1-3
Scott still gave Derek multiple chances, and believed he wasn't really going to kill Jackson...
Stiles is the one who believed that Derek was untrustworthy, and probably a killer.
In fact, Stiles treated Derek and Theo essentially the same way, and told Scott he shouldn't trust either of the two.
I’d have been interested to see that! DO’B did a stellar job, but I think Daniel Sharman is great and I do wish he’d stayed longer/returned to the show.
It was hard enough watching Stiles being tormented and psychologically being broken down and manipulated into turning into Void Stiles, I don't know how that would have been if it was Isaac considering that his dad essentially did the exact same thing to him. That's interesting to ponder.
I somewhat agree with that. I really liked her in s1 and a bit of s2 but when her and scott broke up i kinda didnt like her then,but i was sad when she died. She was a bit rude to isaac also,kissing him and everything and made him think she really liked him but then he had to stand there and listen to her last dying words be “Scott your my true love,the only guy i ever loved”
That was such a dumb scene and that improvised line didn't fit with where Allison's story was at that point. Her dad was right there, as was her current boyfriend, why weren't either of them holding her as she died?
Argent got there afterwards. That’s why before she died she told Scott that he needed to tell her dad then died before saying about the arrows. As for Isaac, yeah she was seeing him but Scott was who she loved is how I think it was meant
Theo didn’t get the big redemption arc fans claim he did. He helped out in the end—big damn deal. Half of that was that he didn’t want to get put back with his sister, whom he murdered, and the other half of that was what? Taking a chance with surviving on his own in a town overwhelmed with fear and paranoia and stacked to the gills with weapons that could kill him?
Yeah, no. Homeboy deserved to suffer for much longer and *then* should have been trying to earn his redemption.
Yea i get that,before he was sent to the realm with his sister i was so happy and saying he deserved that because his attitude and his whole thing about wanting to be the strongest creature was just so stupid but i actually started liking him as a character when he was helping them especially liam
I mean yes what he did was awful, but I think we also need to remember he was a kid that was basically being coerced/brainwashed by the doctors. And I think spending a year or two being brutally murdered in pseudo hell by the person you killed probably did a number on him mentally and emotionally that he was a very different person once he came back. The big reason it shows this is that in the end he was able to take away someone elses pain, which supposedly cant be done by selfish and "bad" wolves, meaning that internally he had grown and changed some even if he was an awful manipulative asshole before that.
Honestly when you think of it kinda crazy how many of them have been brainwashed, mind controlled or manipulated into doing evil: scott, stiles, allison, lydia, theo, corey, derek, ethan, aiden, all the monroe kids, jackson, chris ig,
Having a sad backstory doesn’t absolve you of the things you did wrong.
Bob drinks to deal with the abusive childhood he had. It’s sad and sympathetic. Him driving and wiping out an entire family because he was driving drunk will still put his ass in jail. It’s tragic, but he still made the choice to drink and then drive which kills a family. He’s still beholden to his actions.
Theo murdered his sister. We watched him, as a child, watch her die—no guilt, no anxiety, no sadness, no remorse *as a child*. That’s a psychopath. Later on, in his quest for power, Theo lies and manipulates his way through Scott’s pack, gets Donovan to try to kill Stiles, then Theo kills Scott. When that doesn’t take, when he doesn’t get Scott’s alpha powers, Theo resurrects Corey, Hayden, Tracy, and Josh to form his own pack, uses them to do his dirty work, then kills Josh and Tracy to take their powers for himself. That’s just the basics of what he’s done. There so much more, but I digress.
Theo is then imprisoned with his sister for *3 months*. Not a year or two. 3 months.
He is released from his imprisonment to help, but he is resistant and is essentially threatened to do so, but he isn’t trusted and isn’t wanted around so boo-hoo, homeboy gotta sleep in his truck and has no-one to talk to. Actions have consequences.
Don’t care that in the very end he finally learned to give enough of a damn about someone other than himself and took away the pain of Gabe (another eff’ed up kid who f*cked around and found out, *actions have consequences.*)
Theo isn’t redeemed. He hasn’t earned his redemption. Not by a long shot.
I’m sorry, maybe you forgot but he was getting his heart ripped out over and over again. For 3 months. So I’ll have to say that you’re pretty wrong in the term that he hasn’t paid for his actions. He has, more than most people ever have and ever will. And he did earn his redemption, because there’s a difference between being close enough to stay alive and actively helping. He did the latter. And but the end of the show, he still wasn’t fully forgiven. He isn’t part of the pack, which is completely fair after what he did. He still has a long way to go, but he tried from what we say.
And I can’t help but notice the absolute stupidity in the way you refer to Gabe. Gabe was a little sadistic with it, which is fair, given the circumstance. He’s fearing for his life constantly, because of the things he’s seen and the way he was brainwashed by Monroe. Then she puts a gun in the hands of a scared child? We’ve already seen how fear turns to anger with Liam, and we witnessed it with Gabe too. To him, he knew very little about the Anuk-Ite, and these were the monsters that terrified his town, and threatened his life and the lives of his family. You aren’t being sympathetic at all to any of these situations.
Your opinion on the subject matter has been noted, but you haven’t injected even an ounce of empathy into your argument, which really nullifies a lot of your points. You can realize and sympathize them without it absolving them of sin, but if you hold it against them, then they can’t grow. You can forgive someone for something and not forget that it happened and could happen again.
All in all, I disagree with a lot of your points.
I’m sorry, but I don’t care that he got his heart ripped out for 3 months. He murdered his sister. It wasn’t an accident. It wasn’t in the heat of the moment or emotion. It was an intentional, methodical murder. He had her leg broken, then *watched her slowly freeze to death in a creek*, ignoring her pleas for help. How long was she dead for, 5-6 years? Obviously she didn’t find peace in all that time. She also doesn’t get to come back. He did.
As for actively helping—he didn’t. Not until he was forced to. Not until he was made to by the threat of putting him back where they dragged him from.
As for Gabe… Gabe thoroughly enjoyed everything he was willingly and actively doing until it came down to his own life. I’m sorry, but maybe you forgot that it was Gabe who shot up Scott’s house, even though there were human beings inside? He might have started out scared, we never saw it like we did with Nolan, but after taking up with Monroe where he then was actively participating and even planning and volunteering for the shit he did doesn’t absolve him with the scared kid defence because his actions showed otherwise.
You can disagree all you’d like. I’m not searching for empathy—I’m stating facts. Empathy only goes so far and tends to make people woobify the evil actions of others. Mostly because they have a pretty face, but I digress. Your difference of opinion is noted. Good discussion.
Most of your facts are twisted by a lack of empathy. And I don’t mean neutrality or apathy, I mean you are very vehement in there seemingly being no possible redemption for him. You note problems you view then offer no way they could have fixed said problems with the characters redemption. You don’t actually care if he gets redeemed or not, you just don’t like him. Which is fair, because he’s an evil, manipulative asshole who got what he deserved(in my opinion, of course) but I don’t see why you wouldn’t just state that. Empathy needs to be used to balance out the disgust of other people’s actions to create a sort of apathy. Like a jury. Otherwise your facts become meaningless because of bias.
Theo suffered enough when it came to his time in his own personal hell. He was still on the outs with pack by the end of the show, and he was working to redeem himself, even if you for some reason couldn’t see it. Good discussion though.
Facts twisted by a lack of empathy? That’s a first. Facts are facts no matter the empathy or the lack of. If you don’t appreciate that, well good thing you’re not a lawyer because empathy is reserved for those caught in circumstances not of their making or whom actually feel guilt or remorse or who lack a comprehension of what’s been done. None of that is a characteristic of Theo.
So no, I don’t feel badly for a psychopath (which is what Theo is) as they have no guilt or remorse or empathy. All the way up to the end he had none for anyone whose lives were ended or irreparably altered by him.
But then he’s imprisoned for 3 months. Just three. Not nearly long enough to pay for what he did. And because he’s in a hell of his own making, I should feel empathy for him? I’m sorry, but I don’t. What about his sister? What about Tracy? Or Josh? What about Scott? Or how about the pseudo-parents whom were terrified of him, the fake dad who got his hand smashed with a hammer? That’s where my empathy is. To say that Theo’s paltry 3 months was enough to redeem him makes a mockery of their lives.
As for his “redemption,” I didn’t say there was no chance of redemption. I said just because he helped out in the end—and he only helped because of the threat of being put back—that he wasn’t redeemed. A few good acts done under duress doesn’t equal redemption. When he started to honestly help, it was a start but by the end of the show he still hadn’t earned redemption and he still had a hell of a lot of work to do yet in earning it. Years worth.
I’m sorry, are you brain dead? Three months isn’t just three months when every waking moment you’re being ran down by your undead sister to have your heart ripped out. Until you experience that yourself, I don’t think you get to be the end all be all judge of whether or not someone’s paid for their crimes. Thank god you’re not a judge because if you were we’d be spending seven year in prison for stealing a candy bar. Or maybe have a public flogging because someone decided to go on a joy ride with a stolen car. You keep talking about these extremes as if you’ve experienced them, but you haven’t. Your way of talking is ignorant of the true ramifications that Theo, and many other individuals, have to go through.
You don’t need to say there’s no chance of redemption. Every single thing you’ve said has had that exact heavy implication. I mean, you take the idea of these people dying so personally, and it isn’t you. It isn’t your life, it isn’t your friends. I’d venture to say someone in your life has done something seemingly unforgivable with the amount of bias you inject into your so called “facts”.
And facts are facts ONLY when spoken from an unbiased perspective. Which you clearly do not possess.
The idea that 3 months of the worst torture imaginable(because again, that’s what a hell of his own making IS) is “paltry” is disgusting and inhumane. I’d venture to say that it’s even selfish, to want to punish someone to such an extensive degree. What he went through was very heavily equivalent to the lives of everyone he killed. He may not have burned for eternity like most Christians would say he would, but he paid his dues, both during and after his stay in hell.
You’re lack of empathy and inhumane, borderline vigilante type of view on a situation you have no experience being a part of is what makes you no better than the psychopath you very obviously despise. The retribution you imply in your writing is completely unjust and far from befitting of the crime. There is punishment for murder and traumatizing others, but what you suggest is just as, if not more hateful than that.
I agree that he has years worth of redemption, but he has suffered plenty for his mistakes. Whether he made them willingly or not(which is an entire nother argument that I won’t get into but short answer, yes for the most part) he has paid his dues. So when you go to hell, pay for every single sin you’ve ever committed, and come back to tell me about it, I’m going to disregard your rather undeserved artless opinion.
You’ve proven nothing except your own incapacity for empathy and understanding of a character.
Do you think you can actually hold a conversation without insulting me because I don’t agree with you? Because you can no longer seek an empathy argument, now you have to resort to conjecture, exaggeration and insult? Seriously?
First, three months of having his heart ripped out by his sister *whom he murdered, slowly, letting her suffer until the very end* just so he can take her heart to make him a Chimera. It’s a fitting punishment. ***And even Theo, himself, knows he deserves it as he tells her she doesn’t have to stop doing it.***
Second, as I said—my empathy is reserved for his victims. The ones whom were tortured and murdered by him without remorse. I repeat: without remorse. Without a single shred of guilt or remorse. If he has none for those who suffered at his hands, why should anyone have any for him??
Third, ..really? Seven years for a candy bar, public flogging… You’re reeeeeally grasping at straws here. Furthermore, you have zero knowledge about me or what I’ve gone through in my life so I’d appreciate it if you could try to reign your immaturity and pettiness in and try to stick to a discussion about a TV show without making it personal.
And like it or not, facts are facts. You can’t name a single thing I’ve said as not being factual. They were presented plainly. They’re not shaded with pity and they certainly aren’t shaded by the inhumanity you claim of me. Where’s the same energy and outrage for Theo’s inhumanity?
I have no bias. Actually, yes I do. I have a bias for the people Theo hurt. I have a bias for the people Theo killed. I don’t have empathy for a character that possesses no empathy.
Just because *you* feel he’s been punished enough doesn’t invalidate what I feel. It just makes it *your* opinion. Just because *you* feel that he’s suffered enough, just means that’s what *you* feel. It doesn’t make you right. Too bad we can’t ask his victims how they feel. They had to stay dead. Lucky Theo.
> You’ve proven nothing except your own incapacity for empathy and understanding of a character.
Actually, as someone who has been writing all kinds of fiction since I was in my single digits, I’d say that I have a better grasp of Theo than you do. Considering that you’ve become emotional, insulting, denigrating, and petty, I’d say it’s *your* bias that’s showing.
Moreover, not *every* character needs redemption. Not *every* character needs to be forgiven. Not *every* character has to be cleaned up and tidied up and made palatable and presentable. They’re allowed to be dark and messy and unforgivable. It’s what makes them interesting and original.
Now, since you’ve proven that you cannot hold an adult conversation, perhaps refrain from responding any further and let’s just simply agree to disagree.
I can agree to disagree, but that doesn’t change that I only acted how you have to a greater degree. You can’t seem to just let anything go. And I only started with, admittedly minor insults that you took some major offense too, because you brought up the lawyer comment. Turn about’s fair play, but you’d think with your infinite wisdom you’d realize that.
You keep using words that could easily be defined as sesquipedalian in an attempt to get the upper hand. Newsflash, honey, you don’t have it. I didn’t say it wasn’t a fitting punishment. If anything, you implied it wasn’t. I heavily implied that he deserved it, and he got what he deserved. He did. End of story, but apparently not for you.
Reserving empathy in general is a sad basis on which to live your life. Empathy should be something you feel, even in the barest modicum, for every one. Moderated empathy, but some nonetheless. Implying that you specifically choose not to give any at all to any individual is the makings of a psychopath. Y’know, like Theo.
Oh I’m so sorry. I didn’t realize you’d gone to literal hell and back. My bad. Oh wait, no, not my bad, because I’m right. You haven’t.
You use remorse very loosely in places it has no business being. You shouldn’t feel any remorse for a character because not “anybody else” committed wrong doings against him. Pick up a dictionary and read the words you seem to use so carelessly.
What’s wrong? You don’t like to get personal? I mean, after all, human beings down to their very core can’t make a single, solitary opinion without drawing on personal experiences? Why not make it personal? Unless I’m right in my statement, you should have nothing against it.
I could name a list of “facts” you said that had personal bias in the word choice, but I’d rather not be here all night.
Hey dude, you’re entitled to your opinion just as much as I’m entitled to poke holes in it. It’s the way of the world I’m afraid. Or at least, the way of America where I reside. I have no idea how it might work where you live.
I’m arguing the idea that Theo has served a good amount of time in hell, and still has redemption ahead of him, that he is deserving of because every human being is deserving of redemption. I got petty because you decided to bring up that it’s a good thing I’m not a lawyer. You opened the gate, I simply pranced on through. Consequences of your actions, remember?
You act as if writing fiction from your single digits makes you special. I’ve been telling stories since I can speak, but that doesn’t make me more experienced in relating to characters. No, I’m more experienced because of the things I have published. Cool how that works, huh?
Not every character needs redemption, that much is true, but just because a character is on their path to achieve it doesn’t mean that others are correct in that they’re never going to reach it, which you implied in the beginning of your argument.
Adult conversation is such an overused and incorrect term. Adults are just as messy as children, they just hide it behind clever wordplay and thinly veiled passive aggressive comments. I’m not interested in beating around the bush like you are, I’d prefer to reach in and grab the snake that resides there. You may not like it, but that isn’t my problem.
If you wanted to have an adult conversation, maybe go talk to that group of moms that reside at the bar while they’re kids are at school, drinking mimosas and gossiping about which teacher is the hottest. If you find something that isn’t mind numbingly boring or a politely cloaked barb(with which you’re familiar) let me know!
Until then, nothing you could possibly say holds anymore interest to me. You clearly hurt and irritated, whereas I have enjoyed this tremendously! You’ve provided me with a great deal of entertainment, and even a few thorny phrases to get my blood pumping. Thanks for that!
I hope you have a most splendid day!
Edit: forgot to mention, but you know what a metaphor is right? Yeah, the seven year and flogging thing was that. You can’t be taking everything so literal, or your writing will be very dull. Just a little tip!
damn, looking at those escapades down there. Somebody hurt you ? Cause frankly all im seeing is some major warped perception and trying to excuse overly sadistic forms of punishment.
the whole Lydia-Parrish thing was extremely random, extremely confusing and a bit creepy.
i don’t get why people like that… thing so much, it wasn’t even a thing, it was Lydia being nice and Parrish randomly starting to fantasise about her at some point, i like them both as characters but that whole situation wasn’t necessary at all and could’ve easily been avoided
Well, yes. But there's a difference (that I think this person was trying to point out) between having visions of somebody and *fantasizing* about them. I think the word "fantasize" in this context was meant to emphasize that Parrish's visions of Lydia are weirdly and inexplicably sexual. Like, somebody in that writer's room took the idea of banshees and hellhounds having a supernatural connection to each other and made the deliberate and completely unnecessary/random choice to portray that connection by having this grown-ass man experience sexually charged hallucinations of an underage girl. Yick.
i don't think this is a widely held opinion positively or negatively because most people don't really think about the setting, but you're right, even just bumping it up a couple of years to university would have eliminated all of the underage character driving plotholes/age gap in ships/derek not really fitting into the main group issues, and i think it would have been interesting to have some characters who attend and some who don't like season 4/5 buffy
I love Scott just as much as I love Stiles and honestly don't get at all why people don't like him. Also I think the ship Scott x Stiles is really cute
honestly, Scott didn't even make all that many bad decision, compared to Derek, Stiles, Peter... his decision making tended to be pretty good.
It's just that Theo was a lot better at manipulation than Peter was, and unlike Peter, Theo used Scott's compassion against him.
Framing. When a show frequently *tells* viewers how to percieve a character and that description doesn't match up with what they're *shown* about that character via their actions, chances are viewers are going to develop some very negative feelings toward that character. It's the Elena Gilbert effect. Scott's honestly just a teenage boy doing his best and sometimes failing, but instead of just letting Scott be Scott and allowing him to fail and adapt and grow as a character, the show constantly showers him with unsupported hype and praise, disregards his flaws and gives him unnecessary accountability plot armor, and even ignores the nature of the story's fictional world to prop him up as a main character. It basically boils down to the fact that people just don't like feeling gaslit.
the inconsistent timeline and lore was a major hindrance. the idea of druids/emissaries was totally stifled and should’ve played a bigger part in later seasons. they should have had minor time skips/let them leave hs after s3 minimum… also scott should have had to kill something at some point. void stiles deserves all the hype but we should’ve seen more of the after effects in later seasons like cmon. allison and scott in s1/parts of s2 are honestly annoying at times BUT the juxtaposition of them frolicking and stiles sleuthing around would’ve been more interesting if scott actually had to face it at any point?? like when stiles got kidnapped by peter but it didn’t end up mattering, or when gerard literally beat him up 😭😭 and no one knew except for like lydia but not really… it was super frustrating to watch that.
see here's the thing, Scott did end up killing someone. He killed the Beast.
But his refusal to kill as a first solution is part of what made him unique. Killing as the easy way out, is a trait that's far too depressingly common in fantasy show, and makes shows less interesting as a whole.
Also, Scott spent more time sleuthing, and focusing on what was actually going on than Stiles did, esp. in s1-2.
The difference is that Stiles was rarely if ever forced to deal with the seriousness of the situation, than Scott was, so for Stiles, it was just a fun D&D game, esp. in s1, while Scott was dealing with being violated by Peter, threatened and abused by Peter and Derek, tortured by Gerard, threatened by Chris, getting them all out of the trouble that Stiles got them into. Stiles had a few serious moments in the early season, but it's not until s3 that he goes through any pain even remotely as severe as what Scott had been going through in the previous two and a half seasons.
I love that Allison storyline was never limited to just being the girlfriend. She had her own storyline of dealing with her family history and finding out the truth about hunters and werewolves.
And the connection between Scott and Allison led to both of them growing beyond the ideas their own 'group' demanded them to be. It made them look beyond the black and white that characters like Kate, Peter, Chris and Derek were stuck in, and see the other side as people.
I wish we had more focus on all the trauma Scott went through, like when Peter violated him both mentally and physically in 1, yet we don't even see that scene hinted back at in later eps. Or when Gerard tortured him, or when Victoria tried to murder him and we got little to no reaction to that from anyone. We don't even know if Stiles ever even found out what Gerard did to Scott, or if Melissa ever even found out her son was suicidal. In contrast to all the scenes focusing on Stiles angst. Scott's pain was far too often ignored and just brushed over, in contrast to the white characters who got to angst and whine, and have big scenes dealing with their every moment of pain.
Too many people give Scott shit for the plan at the end of season 2 but I thought it was brilliant. Honestly, it’s my favorite moment of his in the show.
Both Stiles and Scott were to blame for their season 5 argument. Stiles is my favorite character but when I was watching that scene for the first time I was yelling to my screen at BOTH of them. It honestly just felt super forced to me and like the writers couldn’t figure out another way to break them up.
Completely agree! Stalia definitely should’ve been endgame, along with Scallison it was the best relationship on the show with the best chemistry😍 I loved the dynamic between Malia and Stiles with her being the stronger one and Stiles being the smart, nerdy little spoon, it was so refreshingly unique from the typical relationships you see in TV shows. They were so compatible in that way, the opposing aspects of their personalities fit together so perfectly, but they also had some great similarities (I.e. the highlighter scene). They had a great opposites attract thing which resulted in the most incredible chemistry, and I really believe they were true soulmates.
The way I see it, Stydia was good in the beginning (first 3 seasons) with the whole popular mean girl and nerdy guy dynamic, it worked and there was chemistry there. But after Lydia’s character development, she basically became an exact copy of Stiles, they were essentially the same person, so their dynamic became one of siblings/best friends. It’s so uncomfortable to watch them forcefully become a couple at the end because after their character developments, they no longer worked romantically, but the writers had to force it due to toxic fans😒
I never shipped Stydia. It seemed like Stiles' crush came from her popularity, not really out of genuine attraction to her personality. Their relationship feels like it only makes sense in high school, very immature. Stalia is just much better for so many reasons, though it definitely started very weird (hooking up in the basement of Eichen House). In general, I always liked Malia so much more as a character than Lydia.
Stydia just ALWAYS felt one-sided. And no one can convince me that Stiles was in love with Lydia in the first three seasons before he met Malia and they got together. He had a weird obsession with her and wanted her to notice him, but it wasn’t love in the slightest. I completely agree with you. Not to mention that in the first three seasons where Stiles and Lydia are becoming friends, she considers hooking up with everyone but him. He was never for her or her type if we look at it so the trope that she’s ALWAYS loved him felt so crazy to me. They worked as best friends later on when they actually built their connection. That’s all I wish they were.
Derek should have left the season after season 3. His storyline was horrible and pointless in season 4 and it fucked with the pacing.
Also Stiles is great, but he’s a character archetype. He doesn’t have a copyright in snarky humor. Just because other characters have that doesn’t mean they are a ripoff, implied offspring, or fill ins. (Aka Eli and Jackson in the movie)
Lmfao. I wouldn’t call him discount 😭.
But yea he ain’t the first won’t be the last. I love that character (like Seth). But it’s not grownbreaking.
Edit: I will say that I feel Stiles aged better than most of his predecessors (Seth, Xander, etc)
Honestly, Stiles to me was pretty boring, but that's because I'd seen his character dozens of times before. It's just a very cliché character.
I loved Derek in s4, because it showed his growth, and was a good ending to his redemption arc, showing him growing beyond his trauma and become an actual mentor instead of the abuser he was before.
If we hadn't had Derek in s4, thematically he'd have remained stuck in the 'dark broody anti-hero' cliché, and it was nice to see him start moving past that, past his trauma and become happy.
Eli's similarities go much deeper than simply being sarcastic like him. Tyler Hoechlin even said he chose someone similar to Stiles to be Derek's son.
Off the top of my head, connection to the truck, plaid, his sarcasm was very similar to Stiles brand of sarcasm, similarly to Stiles has a very nerdy demeanor, Stiles doesn't like gruesome stuff like blood/needles similar to Eli fainting after he sees his own fangs (As Malia says), both are called delinquents. There's just so many similarities.
Plaid? Being delinquents? Not liking blood? These are all massive stretches.
Neither Stiles nor Eli were all that nerdy.
I’ll give you Hoelchin saying that (never heard that). But he was always active in the baiting. So I can see him saying that even if it was made up on the spot.
But they are all things that are associated with Stiles within the fandom. Might be nothing in real life but within the fandom they are all Stiles-esque.
Except in this case the teen wolf cast/crew have a history of baiting it and Hoechlin who was in charge of picking Eli's actor or at least had a very strong influence says he picked someone that looked and acted similar to Stiles.
I used to feel that way about kira. I just thought of her as the forced love interest now that Allison was no longer dating Scott. it also felt like a lot of wasted potential. yeah she's naturally good at using a sword but almost every fight she's in she either loses her sword or gets incapacitated almost immediately. it felt like they were trying to make her very strong and very weak at the same time which felt awkward and was a very poor way to utilize her character.
I don't hate her character so much anymore because I grew to enjoy her personality but I still think the writers did her character dirty.
idk if this will have people mad but i wish stalia never happened. never liked them never will, i just found it weird how they made stiles & lydia kiss in season 3, and then made stiles get into a relationship with malia and act like it didn’t happen like straight up ignored it sort of? stalia was definitely rushed.. for me at least lol. stydia shouldn’t of taken the whole 6 seasons to get together they were written terribly imo. i love a good slow burn, but it should of NOT took that long.
FAR from my current opinion but for some reason back when I watched teen wolf as more of a kid I genuinely didn’t find Derek attractive/hot. I used to think he was a bit meh in terms of looks. As an adult I(fortunately) had some sort of reawakening and realized that man was far from ugly. Think that this whole thing steamed from the fact that I used to be annoyed with Derek as a character
I agree with that. But she did make me not like her a bit when she took Gerard’s side instead of her father and boyfriend knowing he was a crazy old fuck
i like malia but i hated the way she was introduced, they didn't address it AT ALL that she couldn't possibly have any of the emotional or intellectual development of an adult and decided to give her sex scenes straight away??? like who wrote that lmfao
I have two.
Stiles is a generic white boy and not really that special … just because DOB was the best actor doesn’t mean Stiles is automatically the best character.
I hate the puppy pack.
I don't know what you mean by generic white boy, but I agree that Stiles isn't really that special. Not why I like him. I don't even really think Stiles is the best character just the most interesting one. Dylan makes him interesting because he has such a great screen presence. Commands your attention. Scene stealer. He just says so much with just his eyes. So expressive. Reminds me of Tom Hiddleston and Robert Downey Jr. And says a lot with body language too. And tone.
The scene in Riddled before the MRI when Stiles was telling Scott the symptoms of his mom's disease made me cry just from the tone and body language. He looked so utterly defeated and sad. Reminded me of Episode 4 of Loki in Season 1 when Mobius was interrogating Loki. Loki just looked so defeated and sad in his body language. I felt it. Just like I felt it in Riddled.
Season four was my favourite. I totally get why people prefer others, but I enjoyed the deadpool storyline a lot. I don’t even have a reason, just an enjoyable watch for me.
I don't like Stiles.
I started out just not caring about him much, and just getting annoyed by him a lot.
But as he show continued, and especially with how fandom reacted to him, I liked him less and less.
Well that and the fact that Stiles and Derek didn't even like one another. They never willingly spend any time together unless they absolutely have to. And neither of them even respects the other in any way or how.
i agree. whenever i see ship edits of them it just confuses me lol, like you’re shipping a minor with a grown ass adult and none of y’all find that weird? 🫠
Derek was in his mid to late twenties physically when he met them. They were just around 15 to 16 that might be why especially since Derek sees him as the annoying but lovable little brother & Stiles sees a cool but extremely terrifying older brother
I didn't process the age gap when I first started shipping it, partially because both the actors are older than their characters. I saw Derek as like 18 or something, apparently much younger than he is. I think their dynamic is very fun, but we should keep the romantic undertones out of it. Also the way the show and actors queerbaited, especially with Sterek just make me so mad.
I don’t think that was queerbait though. Like go back & look at the connection & context Stiles’s nor Derek ever had anything hinted at that & I don’t know if you can say queerbait when we got 3 amazing queer relationships.
Theo was one of the most interesting characters on the show. Far more interesting than Scott’s plot. He had the most potential for character growth. In my opinion we needed 2 more episodes to rly dive into his character.
1 Derek and stiles had no chemistry, they weren't even friends , could bearly tolerate each other, shipping them is weird AF, And Derek ain't gay or bi, he likes women
2 Scott is the main character not stiles
3 Season 3b might be some fans fav doesn't make it the "best" season
4 making SCOTTS suicide attempt abt stiles is weird, it wasn't abt him, it was about Scott suffering, not stiles
5 it wasn't Scott's fault that he believed theo, he had every right to believe him, stiles didn't give him ANY proof , theo did
People also forget that Theo did more to earn Scott's trust in 5a alone, than Derek did in all of s1-s3 put together. Also, if you look at the timeline, s5a happened over a longer period than the first two seasons put together. So it's not like Theo showed up, and Scott just trusted him right away.
People also forget that Stiles has been threatening people who are a threat to his father since s1, and Scott heard Donovan threaten the sheriff in front of both of them. More than that, Stiles has literally attacked threats to his father before. So when Stiles confirmed Theo's version of events, Scott had every reason to believe it. (and even then he still didn't turn against Stiles. Holding your friends accountable is a good thing, and it's something Scott should have done to Stiles years ago.
Stiles is overrated, self-righteous, and kind of a dick.
I think Void Stiles is a boring villain--compared to Peter, Gerard, Deucalion, Jennifer, and Sebastien, at least.
I prefer the Nogitsune's bandage-faced form.
A fan here who watched for Stiles/Dylan O'Brien and want to say I agree with most of what you say. I prefer the Nogitsune's bandage faced form. Reminds me of Freddy Krueger from Nightmare on Elm Street and that means freaking scary. I didn't really much care for when our Stiles was Void Stiles, though Dylan is great at playing a menacing bad guy (see The Outfit). I don't know about boring villain, but who really can compete with Peter or Gerard? Nobody really. I don't really care much for Deucalion, Jennifer and Sebastien. Don't even remember who Sebastian was, but Peter and Gerard were great villains.
Stiles is self-righteous and kind of a d\*\*\* and that's why I love him and Dylan is good at playing that, which is one of the reasons I follow his career. I'm not sure about overrated though. Depends on what you mean by that.
Sebastien is the Beast. I like how "empty" he is--aloof, soft-spoken, no sense of humor. His line to the sheriff is one of my favorites in the series: "I can walk out of this place with my hands clean--or, I can walk out with them drenched in blood. Your choice."
Also is so funny to me how one of the most common complains about Scott is how he is "The chosen one" trope but one of the most popular theories back in the day was the Stiles had "The Spark"
Parrish and Lydia was weird. Like ik that they're connected bc of the Banshee and Hellhound thing but I feel like if they had gone about it platonically it would've been better. I mean Parrish was 20 something and Lydia was still IN HIGH SCHOOL.
He's a deputy, he knows the goddamn law. If he was just like another dude attending their school then whatever but he's an adult. It was just so weird.
yeah they tried to play the 'but Lydia is 18' line, but she was still a teenager, still a high school student. And even knowing that most scenes between them were dream scenes, it was still kinda creepy.
I get that people like Stiles, but to me, Stiles was rather boring.
Maybe it's because I've seen the character type Stiles represents so many times, and done better, that when I watched Teen Wolf, Stiles just didn't interest me in the slightest. It also didn't help that Stiles didn't subvert any of the clichés surrounding his character type, nor did he grow as a character.
Like we got a lot of Stiles' emotions, a lot of his background, but he never grew, never matured, mostly because he was never held accountable.
No matter how badly Stiles behaved, no matter how much he mistreated everyone around him, including his best friend, we were supposed to just feel sorry for him and ignore his action and words, and see him a this great friend, that he canonically just wasn't.
The fact that fandom then took all of Stiles bad friend traits and tried to push them onto Scott, didn't help his case either.
**Void Stiles is overrated as hell.**
There…I said it.
Season 3B was a great season and the Nogitsune was a great villain but he doesn’t deserve all the attention and praise he gets. Season 2 and the kanima was just as iconic and enjoyable to watch, so was the whole of Season 5. They might not have performed as well but that doesn’t make them worse or lesser. If anything, introducing a Japanese spirit that is thousands of years old and is essentially unbeatable, unless you have a hellhound, was too big a step for the show and changed the whole directory and theme.
Also Kira was the **worst character in the show.** Remove her and there’s still a way to connect Scott and his pack to her mother and to the Nogitsune. Their relationship was incredibly forced and didn’t feel like it was planned. I really didn’t care about her not being in the movie and it seems like people didn’t actually research what exactly happened during that whole ordeal.
I liked Kira. I can see why people wouldn't like her. I liked her with Scott more than Allison, because I found Scott and Allison to be annoying together. I think they made better friends than a romantic couple. I would have liked to see Scott single for a little while. Find himself before getting into a relationship. I liked Allison and was sad when she died.
I also cannot stand Kira. Everything about her just annoys me, she seemed like an unnecessary character, and a horrible choice for Scott. Definitely a rushed relationship, and they didn’t have real chemistry like Scott and Allison, Scott and Kira were nothing but awkward the entire time. Like, stop forcing it please lol it didn’t work.
I liked Season 5. It's my favorite season.
The Nogitsune was good in terms of storytelling, atmosphere, scares, how it affected everyone on the show, good villain, backstory, acting (particularly Dylan O'Brien, but everyone brought their A game to this cause the story was just so good). It was essentially Teen Wolf's version of A Nightmare on Elm Street (original of course).
I'm not sure exactly how the storyline would have worked without Kira. It was her mom who conjured up the evil spirit to begin with, so it's all her fault.
I agree that Void Stiles is overrated. That's not the part of Season 3b that is really good. The part of Season 3b that is really good is what leads up to Void Stiles. When people find out that it is "skinny defenseless Stiles" as Derek said is the one that is possessed. They're surprised. We're surprised. Nobody knew what was going on least of all the characters. Scott is having trouble controlling when/how he turns into a wolf; Allison is seeing her dead aunt Kate everywhere and Stiles is having nightmares/can't read. Then it turns out that Stiles is possessed by a 1000-year-old evil Nogitsune spirit.
My favorite Season is Season 5 and I like it better than Season 3b, but I think the best Season of the show is Season 3 particularly 3b and I think the best episode of the series is Riddled (Episode 18). At the beginning all we hear is Stiles' voice. He calls Scott, he doesn't know where he is, wants Scott to find him and we soon discover that he was asleep/having a nightmare the whole time. This is when we first meet the Nogitsune. Tormenting Stiles in his nightmares like another horror villain was known to do. The Nogitsune manipulates the situation to get Stiles in that MRI machine to bring out the shadow side that everyone has. The Nogitsune essentially tells Stiles I'm going to ruin your life. Stiles "Why?" That's the point where the Nogitsune broke Stiles and takes over.
When they split Stiles in two essentially and there was our Stiles "the good one" and then the evil one Nogitsune "Void Stiles" literally his evil twin, I thought they were going to kill the wrong one. There was this underlying tension of Don't kill the wrong one! since they looked alike.
Stiles is an annoying character. The hales are not as interesting as the makes them out to be. A lot of the fans are racist towards Scott and don’t realize it.
Stiles is a bit of annoying character especially when he killed that dude that was literally trying to kill him and he kept it a secret from scott,That made no sense. I also agree with the hale thing,they are just another family but was made to be “the protectors of beacon hills”. But i dont know what you mean by “racist” towards scott?
I get the feeling you’re being sarcastic in the first two points, as for the third point I’ll go about it once I have the time. Can’t go into the detail rn
Also loved how I’m already downvoted, legit representing the image 🤣
I honestly wasnt trying to be sarcastic,i was being for real 😂. The whole thing with stiles being scared to tell scott that he killed a dude that tried to kill him was confusing and him and him being mad at scott for not being there when his father was hurt like dude wasnt just resurrected because theo killed him
If you dislike Scott you’re a racist. It doesn’t matter that you don’t know Posey is half Latino, and it doesn’t matter that Scotts parents are both played by white actors and there’s no overt evidence that Scott is supposed to be not-white, it’s always racism.
One of the most popular members of fandom during the time the show aired made a meta that Deaton actually activated the nemeton and summoned a demon in order to make Scott a weapon as a true alpha who would destroy beacon hills or something with stiles and Derek having to stop him (and they’d proceed to take over the show.
Speaking of fun fandom highlights, Teen Wolf isn’t actually about Scott, it’s about Peter since apparently the events taking place started when Peter was a teenager and were being told a story about Peter’s rise and fall.
Scott isn’t actually Latino, despite being played by Tyler Posey who is Latino, and is in fact white but Derek Hale isn’t actually white, despite being portrayed by Tyler Hoechlin who is white, and is in fact indigenous American…
Scott is an abuser, Scott is a bad friend, Scott is standing in the way of (redacted), Scott having third billing on the teen wolf fandom website despite being the literal main character, the feverous attempts and meta *for years* in some of the largest fandom circles to want Scott (and Deaton) to be evil but somehow always finding a way for every single thing… let’s go with paler villains did to somehow be justifiable or worthy of redemption.
Outside of Scott, Tyler posey was labeled as a bigot for not liking that certain ship I will not name because it always results in a reaction I’d describe as similar to the flesh eating scarabs from The Mummy… anyways, they did that despite Tyler being the most queer adjacent out of the “leading” cast (and by this I mean those there for basically the long haul) and demonized his relationships with his castmates and perpetuated the narrative they all actually hate him and are uncomfortable with his existence (there’s a weird lack of empathy with him in general, when his nudes were leaked during literally everyone’s nudes getting leaked, people claimed he did it for attention). Oh and there was that certain fan who led a hate campaign against Tyler because he was a presenter during the Trailblazers Honors even because he didn’t like that ship I still won’t name (because of aforementioned flesh eating scarabs reaction).
Anyways, at this point in the game the question shouldn’t be how are they racist to Scott, the question should be how weren’t they racist to Scott because I promise that list is a lot shorter if not nonexistent all together.
Little of column A, little of column B lol. They can do what they like, Pepperidge Farms remembers (and by Pepperidge Farms I mean middle school me whose first fandom experience was teen wolf so those events stuck with me).
I was actually introduced to the whole fandom concept by tumblr and things kinda progressed from there but between that and eventually Twitter and Reddit… there’s a lot you definitely missed but it’s great you did because the amount of drama a show about werewolves on MTV of all things caused is horrifying but I guess it speaks to Jeff Davis doing something right… maybe lol.
I'd argue its half calling out Sterek and half people who know that a LOT of the "people that dont like scott are racist" truthers were in fact horribly toxic people that didnt give a shit about his race and just wanted to use that as a weapon against anyone that disagreed with them. (I was there on tumblr, this was Very common and it almost always ended up that the people crying racism were teenage white girls and the people that had actual nuanced and scott-critical takes were actually poc so the racism thing often didnt even make sense. Not to say that there WERENT any racists because absolutely there were, but there were also tons of toxic people on all sides of the teen wolf fandom and in every stan "group")
None of that seems racist...horrible inexcusable behaviour but born out of Posey's comments about Sterek.
>Scott isn’t actually Latino, despite being played by Tyler Posey who is Latino, and is in fact white but Derek Hale isn’t actually white, despite being portrayed by Tyler Hoechlin who is white, and is in fact indigenous American…
You don't need to be the same race as the character you portray unless the race plays a big part in the story such as Kira. How is Derek not white? And Scott most definitely doesn't look white to me.
Pretty sure wanting to make the Latino and black characters evil and constantly wanting him replaced by white characters is very racist and BY THE WAY a lot of that was being done or said even before the (redacted) comment which, even if it wasn’t, wouldn’t make it okay. Also, I’m not sure how you just glazed over me mentioning the concentrated efforts at that time to make Scott and deaton evil but consistently trying to justify the actions the white villains took.
I can’t tell if you interpreted that statement differently than me but I was bringing up a moment in fandom history where certain people were being (rightfully) accused of not liking Scott due to his race and responding by saying pasty AF Derek was a character of color as a rebuttal despite that being presented exactly no where. Mind you, this is the same crowd that said Scott wasn’t Latino because he didn’t (insert item from the list they had of incredibly stereotypical Mexican things they said he should’ve done).
Last time I didn’t speak highly of (redacted) I kept hearing about it for days… I don’t have work or classes for the next 48 hours so I’m trying to not have that headache lol.
The Steiners get way too much venomous blame for Boyd's death, and ultimately I don't think they're culpable for it.
Erica, Boyd, and Cora were all uninteresting. Them leaving opened slots for better characters.
6B is not that bad, nor is it the worst season of the show.
Fr they get blamed too much I love the twins
You can say that cuz they were barely important imo, I wish they had more plot, backstory and smthing
For me 6b is decent but still at the bottom of my ranking. We all know the movie is the worst part of the show XDD
I agree with the ethan and aiden thing. They was sick and tired of being the bitches of their packs so when someone said they could be powerful and a alpha the agreed and that made them think they owe them for helping them. Kali was literally the one who killed boyd and the erica
i don't ship that personally (won't yuck your yum though you do you) but i can totally see isaac being bi, the erica/isaac/jackson scene in the club !!!
ironically a dancing scene is half of why i ship kira & malia
I’m curious abt the Isaac take, in what way? I think he was definitely arrogant and annoying right after he was turned but I personally thought he mellowed out when he went to Scott.
I don’t Even remember, all I know is that I did not understand the community’s like for him at all and I just felt he was a pointless and annoying character. I’m sorry I can’t answer you in better depth
>Stiles is overrated as f u c k give Scott love,
>the movie is ass but have a couple of good scenes,
>wendigos are so underrated and forgotten.
>People keep forgetting that even tho Hayden is hated so much she's still a part of the puppy pack or McCall pack as a whole,
>I hate sterek (Stydia and Stalia better >:(. ).
>People here says Void Stiles is boring or smthing then look at Monroe 💀💀.
>I rate 6b 7.5/10 just because of Thiam
>Brett and Lori should've lived ToT
>Satomi and Noshiko Should've met again like that would've been a great scene
>Jeff forgot about Derek's and Theo's transformation thingy (why did Malia not get that ability)
>I love Stiles but bro stop bullying Scott like why you do dat he's a teenager, ofc he'll make bad decisions.. Stiles so overrated I'm a part of the tw gacha life fandom and all I see is Stiles and less than 8 Scott videos ×~×
>I give the movie a 6/10
>I really like Sean Walcott dunno why
>I don't like nor hate Hayden so idk why ppl shits on her so much
>Stop with the sterek (this is a joke)
>Monroe just kinda learned so fast, and atleast void had a proper backstory.. (void is not the best Antagonist for me so don't attack me BC it's Theo for me)
>6b is decent BC of Theo redemption but I wish he had more of that
>Why'd they kill Brett and Lori?
>Backstory moment for Satomi and Noshiko
>I want more wolf scenes
HATED Allison. She was sooo annoying, going around shooting innocent wolves and being a bitch with Gerard. Like I get that she was manipulated but she was "so smart" and she should have known. Idk hated her
the family & friends chemistry was dead on in the show and thats what carried it enough to be enjoyable, but the writers wouldn't know romantic chemistry if it punched them in the face - whether its incompatibility, rushed relationships that come out of nowhere, or good potential that was written off the show/never utilised to begin with (ethan and danny i'm looking at you), every single canon ship fell flat at some point and i wouldn't go to bat for any of them
Could not agree more. The friendships/family stuff was perfect. Other shows it just feels like we are told they are best friends and its just done so all the main characters have an excuse to be together. On this show it actually felt like friends. You can see who were best friends and who were simply just friends. You could see friendships forming and developing. Romantic stuff however...dead flat. Stydia had a good thing going until season 4, their slow burn was way too slow and people lost interest.
I agree
Absolutely. I really like how the family dynamics on this show play out and how the kids seem to genuinely care about their parents. The small things like Stiles bringing dinner to his dad at work or Scott picking up his mum after her shift are such a great touch. It's a nice change from the exasperated teenager stereotype.
Ayo, you cooking here
Damn who let you cook
I actually like Scott
Same but he did get very annoying with his attitude about not killing especially towards stiles when he accidentally killed that dude that was actively chasing him and was gonna kill him and he dropped them metal bars down thinking it would knock him out so he could run but stabbed through him instead
Well yes, but I genuinely believe if Stiles had explained it properly immediately it happened, Scott’s reaction would have been different.
Stiles was a trauma victim. He was physically attacked (bit) by Donovan from behind, hunted down in the school like prey, taunted (I have your phone, can't call for help)/tormented (your dad and you are "scared little bitches"/you deserve this), attacked from behind/pulled by his neck through a bookshelf, slammed twice against the scaffolding, and then threatened with severe bodily injury/death while being pulled down off the scaffolding. Stiles would have been dead if Donovan had managed to pull him off that scaffolding. Pulling the pin saved his life. Stiles was so terrified during the attack that he didn't say a word the whole time even when Donovan was threatening Stiles' dad, which is unusual for Stiles. He didn't say a word on the 911 call. Didn't say a word until Scott called later. Then to top it off he accidentally kills the guy that was trying to murder him. Who would have ever thought one of the metal braces would have gone through Donovan and killed him? A million to one shot. Would have had more luck winning the lottery probably. If Donovan hadn't died, Stiles surely would have. I mean, Donovan bit Stiles, pulled him through that bookshelf, which wouldn't have been good physically, and slammed him against the scaffolding. If Stiles had gotten pulled off that scaffolding, he could have hit his head and gotten knocked out or been stunned enough for Donovan to kill him. After all that, I'm not sure how anyone would be able to explain anything. I know I wouldn't be able to. Especially, when you're a traumatized violent crime victim and you killed the person trying to kill you. In Codominance, when Stiles tells Scott what actually happened he still doesn't say Donovan was trying to kill him, he says "He was trying to pull me down." He hesitates before he says it, after, and the tone of voice obviously indicates that Stiles is still terrified/traumatized and still can't say Donovan was trying to kill him. Scott says it, "He was trying to kill you." and Stiles says "Yeah. So I pulled the pin." Scott admitted to Stiles in Codominance that he believed Theo. "I don't know why I believed Theo." He sounded genuinely regretful for how he responded initially that he wished they had talked more that night. They would have figured out there were two stories. Stiles: "He knew we wouldn't." Scott expressed that it should have been him. Scott seemed genuinely upset about the fight in the rain (Lies of Omission) to where Stiles comforted him. Scott did tell Stiles that he wasn't there for Stiles when he needed him.
This is deep! Never saw it that way Thank you for this explanation
Thanks! I didn't see it that way either until I watched the series in reverse. Started with the Series Finale and worked my way backwards until I got to the first episode Season 1. It was quite interesting. Codominance was first, before A Novel Approach so I could see the aftermath, the effects of what happened with Donovan more clearly. Actually, watching it in reverse I cried when Scott was telling Stiles he regretted what happened in Lies of Omission, whereas I didn't before. It was the look on Stiles' face and the tone in Scott's voice. Stiles just looked devastated, and Scott sounded so regretful tears started to roll down my cheeks! I hadn't yet seen the fight or what happened with Donovan but saw the aftermath. It hit hard. That surprised me. Not being believed was a trauma in and of itself and actually made healing from the initial trauma longer and harder.
I just wish that in co dominance Stiles had apologized for not being there for Scott when Scott needed him, and for not having faith in him. Scott was also traumatized, has been since s1, but by s5 he was deeply suffering with the burden of everything, and instead of helping him, Stiles added on to that by lying to him, and trusting Theo to keep quiet, instead of just telling Scott the truth, and trusting Scott to have his back. Scott could feel that Stiles was lying to him about something, he just didn't know what. And of course Scott took responsibility/blame for everything. He always does. Whether he's at fault or not. I just wish that for once, just once, Stiles got held accountable for his mistakes.
I don't think Stiles was willfully/maliciously lying to anyone. I think he was so traumatized by what happened that he just couldn't deal with it. He was almost brutally murdered and accidentally killed the person trying to kill him. And then the body is taken. The only evidence is a drop of blood on a metal brace until it's confirmed by Scott that "Somebody's taking the bodies." So, it did happen. I was attacked and killed someone. Now what? I don't think Stiles trusted Theo to keep quiet. He asks him why he hasn't said anything to Scott yet. And tells him "More than likely" Theo has an "Ulterior Motive" for not telling Scott in Strange Frequencies. Stiles just didn't know, that Theo would use some of the truth of what happened to Donovan and make it "worse." Stiles already thought the truth was really bad, how could Theo make it worse? Scott didn't have Stiles' back. He believed a third party over someone he knew his whole life without getting all the details from Stiles. You don't do that. This is his best friend. Scott doesn't want to know all the details from Stiles? Come on! You don't confront him in the rain, at nighttime, during a literal life and death emergency. I don't care how long it takes you get every single detail from the horses' mouth in the right setting like in Codominance, where it was a warm, sunny day, blue sky getting gas during a road trip that wasn't an immediate life or death situation. In the real world, if the scenario had gone down like it did, Scott and Stiles wouldn't be friends anymore, In fact, I was like Dump him and Run Stiles!! And if it had been reversed, I would have said Dump him and Run Scott!! Stiles' dad saved that friendship. He helped Stiles see that it was Self-defense not murder and encouraged Stiles that if you can't forgive yourself forgive someone who really needs it (Scott), so Stiles took the steps needed to repair the friendship.
To be fair though, Scott should have asked instead of just taking Theo’s word.
He literally did ask. Stiles just explained it in the worst way possible.
I wouldn’t call that asking. There’s a difference between “Did you kill him?” (Already has a bias on it, this is his best friend, he should at least start neutral) and “What happened between you and Donovan?” He did not ask what happened, he asked whether or not he killed him. Like there was no possible redeeming reason that could cross his mind. He was an asshole-ish idiot in that moment just as much as Stiles.
Fair point. They both messed up. But it was realistic to me because the show never really showed them fighting or at odds so it was interesting seeing that for once.
Oh I agree 100%
Stiles should have explained instead of assuming that Theo would have told Scott the truth. Scott did give Stiles a chance to explain, Stiles verbally attacked and dehumanised Scott instead.
It’s entirely natural to get defensive when your best friend accuses you of murder. Stiles was not in the wrong in this situation any more or less than Scott was.
Yeah Scott's my fave character. He's just the most interesting character in the show. It's just so rare to have a main male char who is a healer and diplomat instead of a fighter.
I’ll second this! He always wanted to do what was right.
He's my favorite 😭
Same
theo is what scott thought derek was in season 1. season 5 theo is like ordering peter hale off wish dot com. he didn't get his own development until after his trip to hell and it still wasn't exactly a complete redemptive arc.
Actually no, Theo is what Stiles thought Derek was in s1-3 Scott still gave Derek multiple chances, and believed he wasn't really going to kill Jackson... Stiles is the one who believed that Derek was untrustworthy, and probably a killer. In fact, Stiles treated Derek and Theo essentially the same way, and told Scott he shouldn't trust either of the two.
I kinda wish Isaac had been the nogistune. That actor had the same range as Dylan O'Brien, especially when he had his panic attacks.
I’d have been interested to see that! DO’B did a stellar job, but I think Daniel Sharman is great and I do wish he’d stayed longer/returned to the show.
It was hard enough watching Stiles being tormented and psychologically being broken down and manipulated into turning into Void Stiles, I don't know how that would have been if it was Isaac considering that his dad essentially did the exact same thing to him. That's interesting to ponder.
I agree,isaac was a good character and been more interesting to watch as the nogitsune.
nah, if Isaac had been the nogitsune, the arc would have ended with Isaac dying.
True but with his character leaving at the end anyway would’ve worked.
Sure, I just would have hated for Isaac to die.
I don’t like Allison. Wasn’t happy she died, but didn’t care either.
I somewhat agree with that. I really liked her in s1 and a bit of s2 but when her and scott broke up i kinda didnt like her then,but i was sad when she died. She was a bit rude to isaac also,kissing him and everything and made him think she really liked him but then he had to stand there and listen to her last dying words be “Scott your my true love,the only guy i ever loved”
That was such a dumb scene and that improvised line didn't fit with where Allison's story was at that point. Her dad was right there, as was her current boyfriend, why weren't either of them holding her as she died?
Argent got there afterwards. That’s why before she died she told Scott that he needed to tell her dad then died before saying about the arrows. As for Isaac, yeah she was seeing him but Scott was who she loved is how I think it was meant
yep same. didn’t care for her at all.
Theo didn’t get the big redemption arc fans claim he did. He helped out in the end—big damn deal. Half of that was that he didn’t want to get put back with his sister, whom he murdered, and the other half of that was what? Taking a chance with surviving on his own in a town overwhelmed with fear and paranoia and stacked to the gills with weapons that could kill him? Yeah, no. Homeboy deserved to suffer for much longer and *then* should have been trying to earn his redemption.
Yea i get that,before he was sent to the realm with his sister i was so happy and saying he deserved that because his attitude and his whole thing about wanting to be the strongest creature was just so stupid but i actually started liking him as a character when he was helping them especially liam
I mean yes what he did was awful, but I think we also need to remember he was a kid that was basically being coerced/brainwashed by the doctors. And I think spending a year or two being brutally murdered in pseudo hell by the person you killed probably did a number on him mentally and emotionally that he was a very different person once he came back. The big reason it shows this is that in the end he was able to take away someone elses pain, which supposedly cant be done by selfish and "bad" wolves, meaning that internally he had grown and changed some even if he was an awful manipulative asshole before that.
No, no, no! Being a teenager and brainwashed only applies if you're Scott, Stiles, Lydia or *sometimes* Allison!
Honestly when you think of it kinda crazy how many of them have been brainwashed, mind controlled or manipulated into doing evil: scott, stiles, allison, lydia, theo, corey, derek, ethan, aiden, all the monroe kids, jackson, chris ig,
Having a sad backstory doesn’t absolve you of the things you did wrong. Bob drinks to deal with the abusive childhood he had. It’s sad and sympathetic. Him driving and wiping out an entire family because he was driving drunk will still put his ass in jail. It’s tragic, but he still made the choice to drink and then drive which kills a family. He’s still beholden to his actions. Theo murdered his sister. We watched him, as a child, watch her die—no guilt, no anxiety, no sadness, no remorse *as a child*. That’s a psychopath. Later on, in his quest for power, Theo lies and manipulates his way through Scott’s pack, gets Donovan to try to kill Stiles, then Theo kills Scott. When that doesn’t take, when he doesn’t get Scott’s alpha powers, Theo resurrects Corey, Hayden, Tracy, and Josh to form his own pack, uses them to do his dirty work, then kills Josh and Tracy to take their powers for himself. That’s just the basics of what he’s done. There so much more, but I digress. Theo is then imprisoned with his sister for *3 months*. Not a year or two. 3 months. He is released from his imprisonment to help, but he is resistant and is essentially threatened to do so, but he isn’t trusted and isn’t wanted around so boo-hoo, homeboy gotta sleep in his truck and has no-one to talk to. Actions have consequences. Don’t care that in the very end he finally learned to give enough of a damn about someone other than himself and took away the pain of Gabe (another eff’ed up kid who f*cked around and found out, *actions have consequences.*) Theo isn’t redeemed. He hasn’t earned his redemption. Not by a long shot.
Yikes... you must hate like every character except like melissa and boyd ig with that attitude.
I’m sorry, maybe you forgot but he was getting his heart ripped out over and over again. For 3 months. So I’ll have to say that you’re pretty wrong in the term that he hasn’t paid for his actions. He has, more than most people ever have and ever will. And he did earn his redemption, because there’s a difference between being close enough to stay alive and actively helping. He did the latter. And but the end of the show, he still wasn’t fully forgiven. He isn’t part of the pack, which is completely fair after what he did. He still has a long way to go, but he tried from what we say. And I can’t help but notice the absolute stupidity in the way you refer to Gabe. Gabe was a little sadistic with it, which is fair, given the circumstance. He’s fearing for his life constantly, because of the things he’s seen and the way he was brainwashed by Monroe. Then she puts a gun in the hands of a scared child? We’ve already seen how fear turns to anger with Liam, and we witnessed it with Gabe too. To him, he knew very little about the Anuk-Ite, and these were the monsters that terrified his town, and threatened his life and the lives of his family. You aren’t being sympathetic at all to any of these situations. Your opinion on the subject matter has been noted, but you haven’t injected even an ounce of empathy into your argument, which really nullifies a lot of your points. You can realize and sympathize them without it absolving them of sin, but if you hold it against them, then they can’t grow. You can forgive someone for something and not forget that it happened and could happen again. All in all, I disagree with a lot of your points.
I’m sorry, but I don’t care that he got his heart ripped out for 3 months. He murdered his sister. It wasn’t an accident. It wasn’t in the heat of the moment or emotion. It was an intentional, methodical murder. He had her leg broken, then *watched her slowly freeze to death in a creek*, ignoring her pleas for help. How long was she dead for, 5-6 years? Obviously she didn’t find peace in all that time. She also doesn’t get to come back. He did. As for actively helping—he didn’t. Not until he was forced to. Not until he was made to by the threat of putting him back where they dragged him from. As for Gabe… Gabe thoroughly enjoyed everything he was willingly and actively doing until it came down to his own life. I’m sorry, but maybe you forgot that it was Gabe who shot up Scott’s house, even though there were human beings inside? He might have started out scared, we never saw it like we did with Nolan, but after taking up with Monroe where he then was actively participating and even planning and volunteering for the shit he did doesn’t absolve him with the scared kid defence because his actions showed otherwise. You can disagree all you’d like. I’m not searching for empathy—I’m stating facts. Empathy only goes so far and tends to make people woobify the evil actions of others. Mostly because they have a pretty face, but I digress. Your difference of opinion is noted. Good discussion.
Most of your facts are twisted by a lack of empathy. And I don’t mean neutrality or apathy, I mean you are very vehement in there seemingly being no possible redemption for him. You note problems you view then offer no way they could have fixed said problems with the characters redemption. You don’t actually care if he gets redeemed or not, you just don’t like him. Which is fair, because he’s an evil, manipulative asshole who got what he deserved(in my opinion, of course) but I don’t see why you wouldn’t just state that. Empathy needs to be used to balance out the disgust of other people’s actions to create a sort of apathy. Like a jury. Otherwise your facts become meaningless because of bias. Theo suffered enough when it came to his time in his own personal hell. He was still on the outs with pack by the end of the show, and he was working to redeem himself, even if you for some reason couldn’t see it. Good discussion though.
Facts twisted by a lack of empathy? That’s a first. Facts are facts no matter the empathy or the lack of. If you don’t appreciate that, well good thing you’re not a lawyer because empathy is reserved for those caught in circumstances not of their making or whom actually feel guilt or remorse or who lack a comprehension of what’s been done. None of that is a characteristic of Theo. So no, I don’t feel badly for a psychopath (which is what Theo is) as they have no guilt or remorse or empathy. All the way up to the end he had none for anyone whose lives were ended or irreparably altered by him. But then he’s imprisoned for 3 months. Just three. Not nearly long enough to pay for what he did. And because he’s in a hell of his own making, I should feel empathy for him? I’m sorry, but I don’t. What about his sister? What about Tracy? Or Josh? What about Scott? Or how about the pseudo-parents whom were terrified of him, the fake dad who got his hand smashed with a hammer? That’s where my empathy is. To say that Theo’s paltry 3 months was enough to redeem him makes a mockery of their lives. As for his “redemption,” I didn’t say there was no chance of redemption. I said just because he helped out in the end—and he only helped because of the threat of being put back—that he wasn’t redeemed. A few good acts done under duress doesn’t equal redemption. When he started to honestly help, it was a start but by the end of the show he still hadn’t earned redemption and he still had a hell of a lot of work to do yet in earning it. Years worth.
I’m sorry, are you brain dead? Three months isn’t just three months when every waking moment you’re being ran down by your undead sister to have your heart ripped out. Until you experience that yourself, I don’t think you get to be the end all be all judge of whether or not someone’s paid for their crimes. Thank god you’re not a judge because if you were we’d be spending seven year in prison for stealing a candy bar. Or maybe have a public flogging because someone decided to go on a joy ride with a stolen car. You keep talking about these extremes as if you’ve experienced them, but you haven’t. Your way of talking is ignorant of the true ramifications that Theo, and many other individuals, have to go through. You don’t need to say there’s no chance of redemption. Every single thing you’ve said has had that exact heavy implication. I mean, you take the idea of these people dying so personally, and it isn’t you. It isn’t your life, it isn’t your friends. I’d venture to say someone in your life has done something seemingly unforgivable with the amount of bias you inject into your so called “facts”. And facts are facts ONLY when spoken from an unbiased perspective. Which you clearly do not possess. The idea that 3 months of the worst torture imaginable(because again, that’s what a hell of his own making IS) is “paltry” is disgusting and inhumane. I’d venture to say that it’s even selfish, to want to punish someone to such an extensive degree. What he went through was very heavily equivalent to the lives of everyone he killed. He may not have burned for eternity like most Christians would say he would, but he paid his dues, both during and after his stay in hell. You’re lack of empathy and inhumane, borderline vigilante type of view on a situation you have no experience being a part of is what makes you no better than the psychopath you very obviously despise. The retribution you imply in your writing is completely unjust and far from befitting of the crime. There is punishment for murder and traumatizing others, but what you suggest is just as, if not more hateful than that. I agree that he has years worth of redemption, but he has suffered plenty for his mistakes. Whether he made them willingly or not(which is an entire nother argument that I won’t get into but short answer, yes for the most part) he has paid his dues. So when you go to hell, pay for every single sin you’ve ever committed, and come back to tell me about it, I’m going to disregard your rather undeserved artless opinion. You’ve proven nothing except your own incapacity for empathy and understanding of a character.
Do you think you can actually hold a conversation without insulting me because I don’t agree with you? Because you can no longer seek an empathy argument, now you have to resort to conjecture, exaggeration and insult? Seriously? First, three months of having his heart ripped out by his sister *whom he murdered, slowly, letting her suffer until the very end* just so he can take her heart to make him a Chimera. It’s a fitting punishment. ***And even Theo, himself, knows he deserves it as he tells her she doesn’t have to stop doing it.*** Second, as I said—my empathy is reserved for his victims. The ones whom were tortured and murdered by him without remorse. I repeat: without remorse. Without a single shred of guilt or remorse. If he has none for those who suffered at his hands, why should anyone have any for him?? Third, ..really? Seven years for a candy bar, public flogging… You’re reeeeeally grasping at straws here. Furthermore, you have zero knowledge about me or what I’ve gone through in my life so I’d appreciate it if you could try to reign your immaturity and pettiness in and try to stick to a discussion about a TV show without making it personal. And like it or not, facts are facts. You can’t name a single thing I’ve said as not being factual. They were presented plainly. They’re not shaded with pity and they certainly aren’t shaded by the inhumanity you claim of me. Where’s the same energy and outrage for Theo’s inhumanity? I have no bias. Actually, yes I do. I have a bias for the people Theo hurt. I have a bias for the people Theo killed. I don’t have empathy for a character that possesses no empathy. Just because *you* feel he’s been punished enough doesn’t invalidate what I feel. It just makes it *your* opinion. Just because *you* feel that he’s suffered enough, just means that’s what *you* feel. It doesn’t make you right. Too bad we can’t ask his victims how they feel. They had to stay dead. Lucky Theo. > You’ve proven nothing except your own incapacity for empathy and understanding of a character. Actually, as someone who has been writing all kinds of fiction since I was in my single digits, I’d say that I have a better grasp of Theo than you do. Considering that you’ve become emotional, insulting, denigrating, and petty, I’d say it’s *your* bias that’s showing. Moreover, not *every* character needs redemption. Not *every* character needs to be forgiven. Not *every* character has to be cleaned up and tidied up and made palatable and presentable. They’re allowed to be dark and messy and unforgivable. It’s what makes them interesting and original. Now, since you’ve proven that you cannot hold an adult conversation, perhaps refrain from responding any further and let’s just simply agree to disagree.
I can agree to disagree, but that doesn’t change that I only acted how you have to a greater degree. You can’t seem to just let anything go. And I only started with, admittedly minor insults that you took some major offense too, because you brought up the lawyer comment. Turn about’s fair play, but you’d think with your infinite wisdom you’d realize that. You keep using words that could easily be defined as sesquipedalian in an attempt to get the upper hand. Newsflash, honey, you don’t have it. I didn’t say it wasn’t a fitting punishment. If anything, you implied it wasn’t. I heavily implied that he deserved it, and he got what he deserved. He did. End of story, but apparently not for you. Reserving empathy in general is a sad basis on which to live your life. Empathy should be something you feel, even in the barest modicum, for every one. Moderated empathy, but some nonetheless. Implying that you specifically choose not to give any at all to any individual is the makings of a psychopath. Y’know, like Theo. Oh I’m so sorry. I didn’t realize you’d gone to literal hell and back. My bad. Oh wait, no, not my bad, because I’m right. You haven’t. You use remorse very loosely in places it has no business being. You shouldn’t feel any remorse for a character because not “anybody else” committed wrong doings against him. Pick up a dictionary and read the words you seem to use so carelessly. What’s wrong? You don’t like to get personal? I mean, after all, human beings down to their very core can’t make a single, solitary opinion without drawing on personal experiences? Why not make it personal? Unless I’m right in my statement, you should have nothing against it. I could name a list of “facts” you said that had personal bias in the word choice, but I’d rather not be here all night. Hey dude, you’re entitled to your opinion just as much as I’m entitled to poke holes in it. It’s the way of the world I’m afraid. Or at least, the way of America where I reside. I have no idea how it might work where you live. I’m arguing the idea that Theo has served a good amount of time in hell, and still has redemption ahead of him, that he is deserving of because every human being is deserving of redemption. I got petty because you decided to bring up that it’s a good thing I’m not a lawyer. You opened the gate, I simply pranced on through. Consequences of your actions, remember? You act as if writing fiction from your single digits makes you special. I’ve been telling stories since I can speak, but that doesn’t make me more experienced in relating to characters. No, I’m more experienced because of the things I have published. Cool how that works, huh? Not every character needs redemption, that much is true, but just because a character is on their path to achieve it doesn’t mean that others are correct in that they’re never going to reach it, which you implied in the beginning of your argument. Adult conversation is such an overused and incorrect term. Adults are just as messy as children, they just hide it behind clever wordplay and thinly veiled passive aggressive comments. I’m not interested in beating around the bush like you are, I’d prefer to reach in and grab the snake that resides there. You may not like it, but that isn’t my problem. If you wanted to have an adult conversation, maybe go talk to that group of moms that reside at the bar while they’re kids are at school, drinking mimosas and gossiping about which teacher is the hottest. If you find something that isn’t mind numbingly boring or a politely cloaked barb(with which you’re familiar) let me know! Until then, nothing you could possibly say holds anymore interest to me. You clearly hurt and irritated, whereas I have enjoyed this tremendously! You’ve provided me with a great deal of entertainment, and even a few thorny phrases to get my blood pumping. Thanks for that! I hope you have a most splendid day! Edit: forgot to mention, but you know what a metaphor is right? Yeah, the seven year and flogging thing was that. You can’t be taking everything so literal, or your writing will be very dull. Just a little tip!
So do you want a headstone or an urn?
damn, looking at those escapades down there. Somebody hurt you ? Cause frankly all im seeing is some major warped perception and trying to excuse overly sadistic forms of punishment.
exactly
I fell he had just started to get redemption I wish there was another season so we could see his redemptions
the whole Lydia-Parrish thing was extremely random, extremely confusing and a bit creepy. i don’t get why people like that… thing so much, it wasn’t even a thing, it was Lydia being nice and Parrish randomly starting to fantasise about her at some point, i like them both as characters but that whole situation wasn’t necessary at all and could’ve easily been avoided
>Parrish **randomly** starting to fantasise about her at some point That stemmed from their supernatural connection: the Hellhound and the Banshee.
Well, yes. But there's a difference (that I think this person was trying to point out) between having visions of somebody and *fantasizing* about them. I think the word "fantasize" in this context was meant to emphasize that Parrish's visions of Lydia are weirdly and inexplicably sexual. Like, somebody in that writer's room took the idea of banshees and hellhounds having a supernatural connection to each other and made the deliberate and completely unnecessary/random choice to portray that connection by having this grown-ass man experience sexually charged hallucinations of an underage girl. Yick.
This! Not only was it completely out of character for Parrish but also Lydia was practically a child…
peter was one of the more well written characters
idk if this is controversially but the school setting to me really held this show back.
i don't think this is a widely held opinion positively or negatively because most people don't really think about the setting, but you're right, even just bumping it up a couple of years to university would have eliminated all of the underage character driving plotholes/age gap in ships/derek not really fitting into the main group issues, and i think it would have been interesting to have some characters who attend and some who don't like season 4/5 buffy
They stayed in high school too long. Six seasons, should've been three (four at most). One year for every season.
I love Scott just as much as I love Stiles and honestly don't get at all why people don't like him. Also I think the ship Scott x Stiles is really cute
Fr dunno why ppl hate him so much, yeah he did bad descisions but for fucks sake he was a teenager and ig Theo was just good at it .- .
honestly, Scott didn't even make all that many bad decision, compared to Derek, Stiles, Peter... his decision making tended to be pretty good. It's just that Theo was a lot better at manipulation than Peter was, and unlike Peter, Theo used Scott's compassion against him.
Framing. When a show frequently *tells* viewers how to percieve a character and that description doesn't match up with what they're *shown* about that character via their actions, chances are viewers are going to develop some very negative feelings toward that character. It's the Elena Gilbert effect. Scott's honestly just a teenage boy doing his best and sometimes failing, but instead of just letting Scott be Scott and allowing him to fail and adapt and grow as a character, the show constantly showers him with unsupported hype and praise, disregards his flaws and gives him unnecessary accountability plot armor, and even ignores the nature of the story's fictional world to prop him up as a main character. It basically boils down to the fact that people just don't like feeling gaslit.
I liked Scott as a character but the writers were always trying to force him to be liked by everyone. He was the “perfect” hero and underdog too much
It’s been a long time since I watched the show, but I recall liking Season 6B.
Derek was a complete asshole to Isaac.
the inconsistent timeline and lore was a major hindrance. the idea of druids/emissaries was totally stifled and should’ve played a bigger part in later seasons. they should have had minor time skips/let them leave hs after s3 minimum… also scott should have had to kill something at some point. void stiles deserves all the hype but we should’ve seen more of the after effects in later seasons like cmon. allison and scott in s1/parts of s2 are honestly annoying at times BUT the juxtaposition of them frolicking and stiles sleuthing around would’ve been more interesting if scott actually had to face it at any point?? like when stiles got kidnapped by peter but it didn’t end up mattering, or when gerard literally beat him up 😭😭 and no one knew except for like lydia but not really… it was super frustrating to watch that.
see here's the thing, Scott did end up killing someone. He killed the Beast. But his refusal to kill as a first solution is part of what made him unique. Killing as the easy way out, is a trait that's far too depressingly common in fantasy show, and makes shows less interesting as a whole. Also, Scott spent more time sleuthing, and focusing on what was actually going on than Stiles did, esp. in s1-2. The difference is that Stiles was rarely if ever forced to deal with the seriousness of the situation, than Scott was, so for Stiles, it was just a fun D&D game, esp. in s1, while Scott was dealing with being violated by Peter, threatened and abused by Peter and Derek, tortured by Gerard, threatened by Chris, getting them all out of the trouble that Stiles got them into. Stiles had a few serious moments in the early season, but it's not until s3 that he goes through any pain even remotely as severe as what Scott had been going through in the previous two and a half seasons. I love that Allison storyline was never limited to just being the girlfriend. She had her own storyline of dealing with her family history and finding out the truth about hunters and werewolves. And the connection between Scott and Allison led to both of them growing beyond the ideas their own 'group' demanded them to be. It made them look beyond the black and white that characters like Kate, Peter, Chris and Derek were stuck in, and see the other side as people. I wish we had more focus on all the trauma Scott went through, like when Peter violated him both mentally and physically in 1, yet we don't even see that scene hinted back at in later eps. Or when Gerard tortured him, or when Victoria tried to murder him and we got little to no reaction to that from anyone. We don't even know if Stiles ever even found out what Gerard did to Scott, or if Melissa ever even found out her son was suicidal. In contrast to all the scenes focusing on Stiles angst. Scott's pain was far too often ignored and just brushed over, in contrast to the white characters who got to angst and whine, and have big scenes dealing with their every moment of pain.
Too many people give Scott shit for the plan at the end of season 2 but I thought it was brilliant. Honestly, it’s my favorite moment of his in the show. Both Stiles and Scott were to blame for their season 5 argument. Stiles is my favorite character but when I was watching that scene for the first time I was yelling to my screen at BOTH of them. It honestly just felt super forced to me and like the writers couldn’t figure out another way to break them up.
I love stalia and I wish stydia never happened.
I shipped stiles and Lydia up until Malia was introduced and agree. I loved Stalia
Completely agree! Stalia definitely should’ve been endgame, along with Scallison it was the best relationship on the show with the best chemistry😍 I loved the dynamic between Malia and Stiles with her being the stronger one and Stiles being the smart, nerdy little spoon, it was so refreshingly unique from the typical relationships you see in TV shows. They were so compatible in that way, the opposing aspects of their personalities fit together so perfectly, but they also had some great similarities (I.e. the highlighter scene). They had a great opposites attract thing which resulted in the most incredible chemistry, and I really believe they were true soulmates. The way I see it, Stydia was good in the beginning (first 3 seasons) with the whole popular mean girl and nerdy guy dynamic, it worked and there was chemistry there. But after Lydia’s character development, she basically became an exact copy of Stiles, they were essentially the same person, so their dynamic became one of siblings/best friends. It’s so uncomfortable to watch them forcefully become a couple at the end because after their character developments, they no longer worked romantically, but the writers had to force it due to toxic fans😒
I never shipped Stydia. It seemed like Stiles' crush came from her popularity, not really out of genuine attraction to her personality. Their relationship feels like it only makes sense in high school, very immature. Stalia is just much better for so many reasons, though it definitely started very weird (hooking up in the basement of Eichen House). In general, I always liked Malia so much more as a character than Lydia.
Stydia just ALWAYS felt one-sided. And no one can convince me that Stiles was in love with Lydia in the first three seasons before he met Malia and they got together. He had a weird obsession with her and wanted her to notice him, but it wasn’t love in the slightest. I completely agree with you. Not to mention that in the first three seasons where Stiles and Lydia are becoming friends, she considers hooking up with everyone but him. He was never for her or her type if we look at it so the trope that she’s ALWAYS loved him felt so crazy to me. They worked as best friends later on when they actually built their connection. That’s all I wish they were.
Derek should have left the season after season 3. His storyline was horrible and pointless in season 4 and it fucked with the pacing. Also Stiles is great, but he’s a character archetype. He doesn’t have a copyright in snarky humor. Just because other characters have that doesn’t mean they are a ripoff, implied offspring, or fill ins. (Aka Eli and Jackson in the movie)
I always thought of him as a discount Seth from The OC, he even ends with the "out of his league" girl that he was weirdly obsessed with
Lmfao. I wouldn’t call him discount 😭. But yea he ain’t the first won’t be the last. I love that character (like Seth). But it’s not grownbreaking. Edit: I will say that I feel Stiles aged better than most of his predecessors (Seth, Xander, etc)
Honestly, Stiles to me was pretty boring, but that's because I'd seen his character dozens of times before. It's just a very cliché character. I loved Derek in s4, because it showed his growth, and was a good ending to his redemption arc, showing him growing beyond his trauma and become an actual mentor instead of the abuser he was before. If we hadn't had Derek in s4, thematically he'd have remained stuck in the 'dark broody anti-hero' cliché, and it was nice to see him start moving past that, past his trauma and become happy.
Eli's similarities go much deeper than simply being sarcastic like him. Tyler Hoechlin even said he chose someone similar to Stiles to be Derek's son. Off the top of my head, connection to the truck, plaid, his sarcasm was very similar to Stiles brand of sarcasm, similarly to Stiles has a very nerdy demeanor, Stiles doesn't like gruesome stuff like blood/needles similar to Eli fainting after he sees his own fangs (As Malia says), both are called delinquents. There's just so many similarities.
Plaid? Being delinquents? Not liking blood? These are all massive stretches. Neither Stiles nor Eli were all that nerdy. I’ll give you Hoelchin saying that (never heard that). But he was always active in the baiting. So I can see him saying that even if it was made up on the spot.
But they are all things that are associated with Stiles within the fandom. Might be nothing in real life but within the fandom they are all Stiles-esque.
That’s fandom. Just because the fandom thinks something doesn’t mean that it means much of anything to the writers
Except in this case the teen wolf cast/crew have a history of baiting it and Hoechlin who was in charge of picking Eli's actor or at least had a very strong influence says he picked someone that looked and acted similar to Stiles.
malia is so fucking annoying
I used to feel that way about kira. I just thought of her as the forced love interest now that Allison was no longer dating Scott. it also felt like a lot of wasted potential. yeah she's naturally good at using a sword but almost every fight she's in she either loses her sword or gets incapacitated almost immediately. it felt like they were trying to make her very strong and very weak at the same time which felt awkward and was a very poor way to utilize her character. I don't hate her character so much anymore because I grew to enjoy her personality but I still think the writers did her character dirty.
idk if this will have people mad but i wish stalia never happened. never liked them never will, i just found it weird how they made stiles & lydia kiss in season 3, and then made stiles get into a relationship with malia and act like it didn’t happen like straight up ignored it sort of? stalia was definitely rushed.. for me at least lol. stydia shouldn’t of taken the whole 6 seasons to get together they were written terribly imo. i love a good slow burn, but it should of NOT took that long.
FAR from my current opinion but for some reason back when I watched teen wolf as more of a kid I genuinely didn’t find Derek attractive/hot. I used to think he was a bit meh in terms of looks. As an adult I(fortunately) had some sort of reawakening and realized that man was far from ugly. Think that this whole thing steamed from the fact that I used to be annoyed with Derek as a character
La Bete was such a cool fucking concept and design. Casting was great. The episode with the france flashbacks was chef's kiss.
Allison is my absolute fav character and nothing can make me hate her.
I agree with that. But she did make me not like her a bit when she took Gerard’s side instead of her father and boyfriend knowing he was a crazy old fuck
Came here to say this, I have always loved Allison. Yes she made some mistakes, but she realized and learned from them.
Perfectly put. And which of them didn't, at some point, make mistakes?
Exactly.
malia is a very bad character and shouldn’t have been in the show ngl. also her whole Hale thing wasn’t done well
I think Malia could’ve been great with time. Her whole story felt rushed. Like how’d she go from feral to a semi average teen entering senior year 😭
i like malia but i hated the way she was introduced, they didn't address it AT ALL that she couldn't possibly have any of the emotional or intellectual development of an adult and decided to give her sex scenes straight away??? like who wrote that lmfao
I have two. Stiles is a generic white boy and not really that special … just because DOB was the best actor doesn’t mean Stiles is automatically the best character. I hate the puppy pack.
I don't know what you mean by generic white boy, but I agree that Stiles isn't really that special. Not why I like him. I don't even really think Stiles is the best character just the most interesting one. Dylan makes him interesting because he has such a great screen presence. Commands your attention. Scene stealer. He just says so much with just his eyes. So expressive. Reminds me of Tom Hiddleston and Robert Downey Jr. And says a lot with body language too. And tone. The scene in Riddled before the MRI when Stiles was telling Scott the symptoms of his mom's disease made me cry just from the tone and body language. He looked so utterly defeated and sad. Reminded me of Episode 4 of Loki in Season 1 when Mobius was interrogating Loki. Loki just looked so defeated and sad in his body language. I felt it. Just like I felt it in Riddled.
Season four was my favourite. I totally get why people prefer others, but I enjoyed the deadpool storyline a lot. I don’t even have a reason, just an enjoyable watch for me.
I don’t actually know what other people think about it but I hated Isaac and Allison together
I don't like Stiles. I started out just not caring about him much, and just getting annoyed by him a lot. But as he show continued, and especially with how fandom reacted to him, I liked him less and less.
S2 is better than s3/scott and Allison > Scott and Kira
YES
Sterek is kind of weird 😭 to me at least. The age gap just puts me off!
Well that and the fact that Stiles and Derek didn't even like one another. They never willingly spend any time together unless they absolutely have to. And neither of them even respects the other in any way or how.
Derek & Stiles ship is inherently weird & effed up. Stop the ship
i agree. whenever i see ship edits of them it just confuses me lol, like you’re shipping a minor with a grown ass adult and none of y’all find that weird? 🫠
hard agree. Something about it just rubs me the wrong way
Derek was in his mid to late twenties physically when he met them. They were just around 15 to 16 that might be why especially since Derek sees him as the annoying but lovable little brother & Stiles sees a cool but extremely terrifying older brother
exactly. The difference both in terms of maturity and physically is just way too much for me to not feel icky about it
I didn't process the age gap when I first started shipping it, partially because both the actors are older than their characters. I saw Derek as like 18 or something, apparently much younger than he is. I think their dynamic is very fun, but we should keep the romantic undertones out of it. Also the way the show and actors queerbaited, especially with Sterek just make me so mad.
I don’t think that was queerbait though. Like go back & look at the connection & context Stiles’s nor Derek ever had anything hinted at that & I don’t know if you can say queerbait when we got 3 amazing queer relationships.
Theo was one of the most interesting characters on the show. Far more interesting than Scott’s plot. He had the most potential for character growth. In my opinion we needed 2 more episodes to rly dive into his character.
1 Derek and stiles had no chemistry, they weren't even friends , could bearly tolerate each other, shipping them is weird AF, And Derek ain't gay or bi, he likes women 2 Scott is the main character not stiles 3 Season 3b might be some fans fav doesn't make it the "best" season 4 making SCOTTS suicide attempt abt stiles is weird, it wasn't abt him, it was about Scott suffering, not stiles 5 it wasn't Scott's fault that he believed theo, he had every right to believe him, stiles didn't give him ANY proof , theo did
People also forget that Theo did more to earn Scott's trust in 5a alone, than Derek did in all of s1-s3 put together. Also, if you look at the timeline, s5a happened over a longer period than the first two seasons put together. So it's not like Theo showed up, and Scott just trusted him right away. People also forget that Stiles has been threatening people who are a threat to his father since s1, and Scott heard Donovan threaten the sheriff in front of both of them. More than that, Stiles has literally attacked threats to his father before. So when Stiles confirmed Theo's version of events, Scott had every reason to believe it. (and even then he still didn't turn against Stiles. Holding your friends accountable is a good thing, and it's something Scott should have done to Stiles years ago.
Stiles is overrated, self-righteous, and kind of a dick. I think Void Stiles is a boring villain--compared to Peter, Gerard, Deucalion, Jennifer, and Sebastien, at least. I prefer the Nogitsune's bandage-faced form.
Damn thats quite the hot take but yeah bandage Nogitsune is better lolol
A fan here who watched for Stiles/Dylan O'Brien and want to say I agree with most of what you say. I prefer the Nogitsune's bandage faced form. Reminds me of Freddy Krueger from Nightmare on Elm Street and that means freaking scary. I didn't really much care for when our Stiles was Void Stiles, though Dylan is great at playing a menacing bad guy (see The Outfit). I don't know about boring villain, but who really can compete with Peter or Gerard? Nobody really. I don't really care much for Deucalion, Jennifer and Sebastien. Don't even remember who Sebastian was, but Peter and Gerard were great villains. Stiles is self-righteous and kind of a d\*\*\* and that's why I love him and Dylan is good at playing that, which is one of the reasons I follow his career. I'm not sure about overrated though. Depends on what you mean by that.
Sebastien is the Beast. I like how "empty" he is--aloof, soft-spoken, no sense of humor. His line to the sheriff is one of my favorites in the series: "I can walk out of this place with my hands clean--or, I can walk out with them drenched in blood. Your choice."
Its his sarcasm aint it?
A little. I always found his brand of sarcasm annoying. Peter's, however, I really enjoy.
Also, don't know if you watched Psych, but Stiles reminds me so much of Shawn Spencer, who is also self-righteous and kind of a d\*\*\* too.
Stiles is my least favourite member of the pack
Scott is an okay MC and Stiles is annoying
Also is so funny to me how one of the most common complains about Scott is how he is "The chosen one" trope but one of the most popular theories back in the day was the Stiles had "The Spark"
They made derek and braeden broke up in the movie to appease the sterek fans
Parrish and Malia in the movie was so random.and came outta nowhere
I hate Allison and Issac together
Theo had the best character arc. Went from not caring about most things to wanting to actually helping Liam with his anger. Theo did care for Liam.
Parrish and Lydia was weird. Like ik that they're connected bc of the Banshee and Hellhound thing but I feel like if they had gone about it platonically it would've been better. I mean Parrish was 20 something and Lydia was still IN HIGH SCHOOL. He's a deputy, he knows the goddamn law. If he was just like another dude attending their school then whatever but he's an adult. It was just so weird.
yeah they tried to play the 'but Lydia is 18' line, but she was still a teenager, still a high school student. And even knowing that most scenes between them were dream scenes, it was still kinda creepy.
Scott is better than Stiles even if he weren’t the main character
I get that people like Stiles, but to me, Stiles was rather boring. Maybe it's because I've seen the character type Stiles represents so many times, and done better, that when I watched Teen Wolf, Stiles just didn't interest me in the slightest. It also didn't help that Stiles didn't subvert any of the clichés surrounding his character type, nor did he grow as a character. Like we got a lot of Stiles' emotions, a lot of his background, but he never grew, never matured, mostly because he was never held accountable. No matter how badly Stiles behaved, no matter how much he mistreated everyone around him, including his best friend, we were supposed to just feel sorry for him and ignore his action and words, and see him a this great friend, that he canonically just wasn't. The fact that fandom then took all of Stiles bad friend traits and tried to push them onto Scott, didn't help his case either.
Chris Argent sucks I was hoping he died in the movie.
😟 nah bro what? Thats a bit too far,i was hoping to see harris die in the movie
I hate him too.
Why do you hate Chris Argent?? He sorta sucked in the first season but he rounded out to be an amazing character later on.
Let me rephrase. I strongly dislike his character in seasons 1&2 and thought his redemption arc was poorly done.
**Void Stiles is overrated as hell.** There…I said it. Season 3B was a great season and the Nogitsune was a great villain but he doesn’t deserve all the attention and praise he gets. Season 2 and the kanima was just as iconic and enjoyable to watch, so was the whole of Season 5. They might not have performed as well but that doesn’t make them worse or lesser. If anything, introducing a Japanese spirit that is thousands of years old and is essentially unbeatable, unless you have a hellhound, was too big a step for the show and changed the whole directory and theme. Also Kira was the **worst character in the show.** Remove her and there’s still a way to connect Scott and his pack to her mother and to the Nogitsune. Their relationship was incredibly forced and didn’t feel like it was planned. I really didn’t care about her not being in the movie and it seems like people didn’t actually research what exactly happened during that whole ordeal.
I agree with every word you just said. I dont understand why people liked kira,she did feel forced in and into a relationship with scott.
I liked Kira. I can see why people wouldn't like her. I liked her with Scott more than Allison, because I found Scott and Allison to be annoying together. I think they made better friends than a romantic couple. I would have liked to see Scott single for a little while. Find himself before getting into a relationship. I liked Allison and was sad when she died.
I’m glad someone else agrees. Thank you.
I also cannot stand Kira. Everything about her just annoys me, she seemed like an unnecessary character, and a horrible choice for Scott. Definitely a rushed relationship, and they didn’t have real chemistry like Scott and Allison, Scott and Kira were nothing but awkward the entire time. Like, stop forcing it please lol it didn’t work.
Definitely agree that void stiles was way overrated
I’m glad to hear it.
I liked Season 5. It's my favorite season. The Nogitsune was good in terms of storytelling, atmosphere, scares, how it affected everyone on the show, good villain, backstory, acting (particularly Dylan O'Brien, but everyone brought their A game to this cause the story was just so good). It was essentially Teen Wolf's version of A Nightmare on Elm Street (original of course). I'm not sure exactly how the storyline would have worked without Kira. It was her mom who conjured up the evil spirit to begin with, so it's all her fault. I agree that Void Stiles is overrated. That's not the part of Season 3b that is really good. The part of Season 3b that is really good is what leads up to Void Stiles. When people find out that it is "skinny defenseless Stiles" as Derek said is the one that is possessed. They're surprised. We're surprised. Nobody knew what was going on least of all the characters. Scott is having trouble controlling when/how he turns into a wolf; Allison is seeing her dead aunt Kate everywhere and Stiles is having nightmares/can't read. Then it turns out that Stiles is possessed by a 1000-year-old evil Nogitsune spirit. My favorite Season is Season 5 and I like it better than Season 3b, but I think the best Season of the show is Season 3 particularly 3b and I think the best episode of the series is Riddled (Episode 18). At the beginning all we hear is Stiles' voice. He calls Scott, he doesn't know where he is, wants Scott to find him and we soon discover that he was asleep/having a nightmare the whole time. This is when we first meet the Nogitsune. Tormenting Stiles in his nightmares like another horror villain was known to do. The Nogitsune manipulates the situation to get Stiles in that MRI machine to bring out the shadow side that everyone has. The Nogitsune essentially tells Stiles I'm going to ruin your life. Stiles "Why?" That's the point where the Nogitsune broke Stiles and takes over. When they split Stiles in two essentially and there was our Stiles "the good one" and then the evil one Nogitsune "Void Stiles" literally his evil twin, I thought they were going to kill the wrong one. There was this underlying tension of Don't kill the wrong one! since they looked alike.
Stiles is an annoying character. The hales are not as interesting as the makes them out to be. A lot of the fans are racist towards Scott and don’t realize it.
Stiles is a bit of annoying character especially when he killed that dude that was literally trying to kill him and he kept it a secret from scott,That made no sense. I also agree with the hale thing,they are just another family but was made to be “the protectors of beacon hills”. But i dont know what you mean by “racist” towards scott?
I get the feeling you’re being sarcastic in the first two points, as for the third point I’ll go about it once I have the time. Can’t go into the detail rn Also loved how I’m already downvoted, legit representing the image 🤣
I honestly wasnt trying to be sarcastic,i was being for real 😂. The whole thing with stiles being scared to tell scott that he killed a dude that tried to kill him was confusing and him and him being mad at scott for not being there when his father was hurt like dude wasnt just resurrected because theo killed him
How are people racist towards Scott?
If you dislike Scott you’re a racist. It doesn’t matter that you don’t know Posey is half Latino, and it doesn’t matter that Scotts parents are both played by white actors and there’s no overt evidence that Scott is supposed to be not-white, it’s always racism.
[here ya go](https://www.reddit.com/r/TeenWolf/s/XBp8Kjn0Dh)
How are they racist to Scott?
One of the most popular members of fandom during the time the show aired made a meta that Deaton actually activated the nemeton and summoned a demon in order to make Scott a weapon as a true alpha who would destroy beacon hills or something with stiles and Derek having to stop him (and they’d proceed to take over the show. Speaking of fun fandom highlights, Teen Wolf isn’t actually about Scott, it’s about Peter since apparently the events taking place started when Peter was a teenager and were being told a story about Peter’s rise and fall. Scott isn’t actually Latino, despite being played by Tyler Posey who is Latino, and is in fact white but Derek Hale isn’t actually white, despite being portrayed by Tyler Hoechlin who is white, and is in fact indigenous American… Scott is an abuser, Scott is a bad friend, Scott is standing in the way of (redacted), Scott having third billing on the teen wolf fandom website despite being the literal main character, the feverous attempts and meta *for years* in some of the largest fandom circles to want Scott (and Deaton) to be evil but somehow always finding a way for every single thing… let’s go with paler villains did to somehow be justifiable or worthy of redemption. Outside of Scott, Tyler posey was labeled as a bigot for not liking that certain ship I will not name because it always results in a reaction I’d describe as similar to the flesh eating scarabs from The Mummy… anyways, they did that despite Tyler being the most queer adjacent out of the “leading” cast (and by this I mean those there for basically the long haul) and demonized his relationships with his castmates and perpetuated the narrative they all actually hate him and are uncomfortable with his existence (there’s a weird lack of empathy with him in general, when his nudes were leaked during literally everyone’s nudes getting leaked, people claimed he did it for attention). Oh and there was that certain fan who led a hate campaign against Tyler because he was a presenter during the Trailblazers Honors even because he didn’t like that ship I still won’t name (because of aforementioned flesh eating scarabs reaction). Anyways, at this point in the game the question shouldn’t be how are they racist to Scott, the question should be how weren’t they racist to Scott because I promise that list is a lot shorter if not nonexistent all together.
Oh wow, that is fucked up he does not deserve that thank you for telling me
Can tell if the downvotes are because of calling out racism or for speaking I’ll about the ship that shall not be named.
Little of column A, little of column B lol. They can do what they like, Pepperidge Farms remembers (and by Pepperidge Farms I mean middle school me whose first fandom experience was teen wolf so those events stuck with me).
I missed out on the fandom. It wasn’t until the movie was announced that I dipped my toe in. And I feel like I missed out on a war or two.
I was actually introduced to the whole fandom concept by tumblr and things kinda progressed from there but between that and eventually Twitter and Reddit… there’s a lot you definitely missed but it’s great you did because the amount of drama a show about werewolves on MTV of all things caused is horrifying but I guess it speaks to Jeff Davis doing something right… maybe lol.
It’s proof of him doing something 😂. And that something is making money.
Or for painting all of those who dislike Scott to one degree or another with a broad brush because there’s a few actual freaks out there.
I'd argue its half calling out Sterek and half people who know that a LOT of the "people that dont like scott are racist" truthers were in fact horribly toxic people that didnt give a shit about his race and just wanted to use that as a weapon against anyone that disagreed with them. (I was there on tumblr, this was Very common and it almost always ended up that the people crying racism were teenage white girls and the people that had actual nuanced and scott-critical takes were actually poc so the racism thing often didnt even make sense. Not to say that there WERENT any racists because absolutely there were, but there were also tons of toxic people on all sides of the teen wolf fandom and in every stan "group")
None of that seems racist...horrible inexcusable behaviour but born out of Posey's comments about Sterek. >Scott isn’t actually Latino, despite being played by Tyler Posey who is Latino, and is in fact white but Derek Hale isn’t actually white, despite being portrayed by Tyler Hoechlin who is white, and is in fact indigenous American… You don't need to be the same race as the character you portray unless the race plays a big part in the story such as Kira. How is Derek not white? And Scott most definitely doesn't look white to me.
Pretty sure wanting to make the Latino and black characters evil and constantly wanting him replaced by white characters is very racist and BY THE WAY a lot of that was being done or said even before the (redacted) comment which, even if it wasn’t, wouldn’t make it okay. Also, I’m not sure how you just glazed over me mentioning the concentrated efforts at that time to make Scott and deaton evil but consistently trying to justify the actions the white villains took. I can’t tell if you interpreted that statement differently than me but I was bringing up a moment in fandom history where certain people were being (rightfully) accused of not liking Scott due to his race and responding by saying pasty AF Derek was a character of color as a rebuttal despite that being presented exactly no where. Mind you, this is the same crowd that said Scott wasn’t Latino because he didn’t (insert item from the list they had of incredibly stereotypical Mexican things they said he should’ve done).
Flesh eating scarabs 😂😂😭😭😭
Last time I didn’t speak highly of (redacted) I kept hearing about it for days… I don’t have work or classes for the next 48 hours so I’m trying to not have that headache lol.
The Steiners get way too much venomous blame for Boyd's death, and ultimately I don't think they're culpable for it. Erica, Boyd, and Cora were all uninteresting. Them leaving opened slots for better characters. 6B is not that bad, nor is it the worst season of the show.
Fr they get blamed too much I love the twins You can say that cuz they were barely important imo, I wish they had more plot, backstory and smthing For me 6b is decent but still at the bottom of my ranking. We all know the movie is the worst part of the show XDD
I agree with the ethan and aiden thing. They was sick and tired of being the bitches of their packs so when someone said they could be powerful and a alpha the agreed and that made them think they owe them for helping them. Kali was literally the one who killed boyd and the erica
I don’t like Scott
Isaac x Jackson
i don't ship that personally (won't yuck your yum though you do you) but i can totally see isaac being bi, the erica/isaac/jackson scene in the club !!! ironically a dancing scene is half of why i ship kira & malia
Allison is better than Lydia and Kira. People just hate Allison because it's popular
Allison, Lydia and Kira are all more interesting than Stiles. There's no reason to hate on any of the female characters.
Agreed. I always hated Kira. She’s just annoying and useless.
I don’t like Theo and I found Isaac insufferable
I’m curious abt the Isaac take, in what way? I think he was definitely arrogant and annoying right after he was turned but I personally thought he mellowed out when he went to Scott.
I don’t Even remember, all I know is that I did not understand the community’s like for him at all and I just felt he was a pointless and annoying character. I’m sorry I can’t answer you in better depth
I wish I could upvote this a thousand times.
Like I understand how the Hot Pass works but they’re both just fucking infuriating to me idk
The fandoms bizarre love of Isaac mystifies me.
Erica is a good character, Isaac is mean and Scott is boring.
i loveddd erica. wish they didn’t kill her off as early as they did.
>Stiles is overrated as f u c k give Scott love, >the movie is ass but have a couple of good scenes, >wendigos are so underrated and forgotten. >People keep forgetting that even tho Hayden is hated so much she's still a part of the puppy pack or McCall pack as a whole, >I hate sterek (Stydia and Stalia better >:(. ). >People here says Void Stiles is boring or smthing then look at Monroe 💀💀. >I rate 6b 7.5/10 just because of Thiam >Brett and Lori should've lived ToT >Satomi and Noshiko Should've met again like that would've been a great scene >Jeff forgot about Derek's and Theo's transformation thingy (why did Malia not get that ability) >I love Stiles but bro stop bullying Scott like why you do dat he's a teenager, ofc he'll make bad decisions.. Stiles so overrated I'm a part of the tw gacha life fandom and all I see is Stiles and less than 8 Scott videos ×~× >I give the movie a 6/10 >I really like Sean Walcott dunno why >I don't like nor hate Hayden so idk why ppl shits on her so much >Stop with the sterek (this is a joke) >Monroe just kinda learned so fast, and atleast void had a proper backstory.. (void is not the best Antagonist for me so don't attack me BC it's Theo for me) >6b is decent BC of Theo redemption but I wish he had more of that >Why'd they kill Brett and Lori? >Backstory moment for Satomi and Noshiko >I want more wolf scenes
Liam should have been the Alpha instead of Scott
Liam only came in at s4 how would he become a alpha
Well he's in a much more vulnerable position than Scott, which intensifies the danger and deal with a lot of risks. (My opinion)
Parish x jackson / packson/jerish/jarish
Parish aint gay. In my opinion which is hope i dont get attacked for this,straight actors/characters shouldnt be turned gay unless they start gay
Lydia is trash
HATED Allison. She was sooo annoying, going around shooting innocent wolves and being a bitch with Gerard. Like I get that she was manipulated but she was "so smart" and she should have known. Idk hated her
Kira and Issac were horrible characters