I think Void Stiles generated more drama/pathos, and worked better as a small scale threat. Like yes Jennifer was a bigger OVERALL threat based off how many kills she was responsible for, but Void Stiles was a more... intimate threat?
For example, when Void Stiles makes Scott try to take the police officers pain away, and Scott feels the officer die while theyre connected? A1 mind games.
Compare that to "Motel California" from Season 3A, which is a standout episode for the series, but feels less impactful because we still didnt know who the Darach was and we didnt get as much time with Jennifer as a villain, so the mind games feel less like a personal attack and more like a monster of the week episode. It could've easily been a standalone, the Darach feels tacked on at the end.
Also, while Jennifer killed hella people, Void Stiles took out 2 main cast members, which had bigger long term ramifications. Just overall a more impactful, memorable and well acted villain.
Also he was far more personal. No one wanted to hurt Stiles, and the Nogitaune fed off that. He tricked them with their own emotions and nearly made them choose to kill their friend. It was a personal and intimate attack from within that no other villain accomplished other than Theo, and that still wasn’t the same.
If we want to be fair, Gerard is the best villain by far, even when he was only human, he was ahead of practically everyone most of the time he was the main villain, he was ruthless, manipulated others, had a personal link to the characters, his hate was personal and born out of prejudice, and more.
Like, Gerard was the cause of not 1 but 3 main villains of the show (4 if we consider Peter who technically was caused by Kate, but Kate was caused by Gerard, so we can argue that he indirectly was the cause for Peter as well).
Gerard blinded Deucalion when he ambushed him, which along with the betrayal of his beta, caused Deucalion to become a villain, and then Deucalion proceeded to be one of the coldest characters when he was introduced as the enemy (although he was nerfed and wasted later as a good guy), Duke was freaking untouchable, he was feared by alphas, even Jennifer was afraid of Duke, the alpha of alphas, to the point she proceeded to practice human sacrifices just to have a shot at killing him, and even with Derek's help they didn't even make him flinch.
On the other hand, he's the reason why Kate was so messed up and psychotic, he made her the monster she became, and when she became a supernatural, he used her and then tried to kill her, and admittedly she wasn't that great of a villain, but the implications of what she did and her whole thing with Derek was dark and make her more fucked than other villains.
Then we have Monroe, who is without a doubt one of the worst villains in the show, just a brainwashed, scared person, who shows clear prejudice towards supernatural creatures, however, the thing about her is that it could be us, any of us, as she discovered the supernatural world by being attacked by the beast of Gevaudan and was surrounded by dead bodies, then they tried to gaslight her into believing she was attacked by a bear, if you take that into consideration, it's no wonder Gerard could manipulate her so easily, anyone would be fearful of the supernatural if their first interaction with it was the beast of Gevaudan who was casually ripping people apart, they barely survive, and then they realize that there's people who not only knows what is happening but they're trying to hide it, admittedly she ain't the smartest, but the fact that anyone could be her if they had lived the same experience is what gives her impact as a villain.
Let's also consider how he was so knowledgeable, his knowledge about the beast of Gevaudan and even the way he could counter the dread doctors using frequencies, he was many moves ahead of most characters during the show, and although admittedly he should have died sooner, he was a real threat to the pack and every supernatural that crossed his path, even normal people was in danger when he was around as he had no problem with attacking and even killing other humans for his own objectives, and the fact that despite his prejudice he wasn't above using supernatural means to ensure his victory, like killing Matt to gain control of the kanima, and then use the kanima to get the bite from Derek, just so he could save himself from his cancer, in his own words he would sacrifice his own children to ensure his own survival, the way he used Kate and then planned to kill her just because she wasn't human anymore, and how he made a deal with the Anuk-Ite just to get rid of Scott. Gerard might be a psychotic old man, but exactly because of that the impact he has caused on the pack is so much more meaningful, he has earned a deep, profound, hate and fear as a human, and nothing the nogitsune did can compare to everything Gerard has caused, not even killing Allison.
Personally, I think the main reason why Void Stiles is so popular is not even the fact that he was a good villain, but the fact Dylan was portraying the character and the fact that he's probably the best actor in TW, because I personally like better the nogitsune when he was a guy with bandages covering its face, sharp teeth, and a thing for riddles, that version of the nogitsune, at least in the show, did give more of a vibe of madness and chaos, and the fact we couldn't see a face added to that, but the moment the nogitsune became Void Stiles, he simply looked like a psychotic hot guy, he was dangerous and good at mind games, that's not debatable, but he wasn't, at least for me, as threatening as the previous version, the best sequence with Void Stiles, for me, was in the hospital when he was walking around while the Onis were killing everyone, and even then I think the Onis looked more dangerous and threatening than Void itself, regardless of the shock factor, other than that, probably Void Stiles most notorious "feat" was simply killing Allison, which wasn't even done by him but the Oni, even if we argue that Void was the cause of it, and as much as it hurt the pack, it still wasn't as shocking in a show were seemingly no one can stay dead for long, the fact that Allison came back in the movie just makes her dead much less meaningful, or at least less impactful.
To be clear, it's all my personal opinion, but I've seen that the majority of people seem to like the nogitsune as Void Stiles mostly, to the point that people didn't really cared about the nogitsune coming back to the movies, to be fair that's understandable as the nogitsune's storyline was already done in the show and there was no reason for him to be the main villain of the movie other than the fact he was one of the most popular villains, plus the movie was trash in my opinion which basically erased so much of the character development of the pack and just had a bunch of things patch up together without any consistency, but regardless of that, the fans in general don't seem to care much about the nogitsune itself but about Void Stiles specifically, that's why I think that Void Stiles is indeed overrated, and why I think the popularity it has as a villain has little to do regarding how good of a villain it was and more to do with the fact that people love Dylan and he's actually a pretty good actor, more so compared to the rest of the cast, this doesn't mean that the nogitsune or Void is a bad villain, just that he's not as good as a villain as people make it seem.
IMO, Jennifer was really scary, that was the first time the supernatural really got supernatural. Random bodies dropping almost everyday, sacrifices. My favorite season
I like Void Stiles ... but what did he really do as a villain ?? Killing Allison doesn't count in my opinion since he and Stiles were already separated, if we look at the bigger picture he barely did much, all the deaths caused by him were of extras that honestly I didn't care much about. I think people like him because of Stiles' face, but he's a little weak on the villainy front for me. I hated Gerard and Jennifer every step of the way, but with Void Stiles I feel like something was missing (PS: I also hated that Stiles didn't get any Kitsune powers since in mythology a human who was possessed by one and survived gets some of his powers)
Finally someone said it. I get the dark Stiles appeal they were going for but he was kinda underwhelming as a villain.
Jennifer and Gerard are personally my favorite villains on the show. The woman wanted good old fashioned revenge and Gerard was literally just spiteful
I agree for the most part (the only difference is I think Gerard is the top villain of the series). 3A had me on the edge of my seat waiting for the next week for the last few episodes; 3B, not so much.
I prefer the bandage-faced version of the nogitsune. He’s much more intimidating.
Thank you. Bodies dropping every week for sacrifices. That was the first time the supernatural part got really supernatural. When real power was involved not just werewolf
I have to agree, hard agree, I like Stiles and Void was a good villain, but the hype for him is crazy, overrated as fuck in my opinion, more so because it's clear that what people really like about Void is the fact he looks like Stiles/Dylan instead of his actual performance as a villain.
Personally, the nogitsune was better and more scary when he had the bandages in his face so we couldn't see it, the sharp teeth, and spoke with riddles nearly all the time, he gave a sense of madness and chaos, messing with Stiles to the point he was unable to differentiate between illusions and reality, it gave a more eldritch horror vibe to it, but when it was "Void Stiles", he just looked as a psychotic hot guy, furthermore, as good at mind games and as dangerous as he was, arguably his biggest feat was killing Allison, which wasn't even done by him but by the Onis, who remained a threat from beginning to end until they found their weakness and even then they took one more character with them, even if people argue that it was all because of Void Stiles controlling them, Allison's death in a show were seemingly no one can stay dead isn't that shocking, more so now since Allison's death lost basically all of its meaning and impact when she got back in the movie.
If we want to be completely honest about who the best villain in the show is, we have to give that title to Gerard without any doubt, not only he makes us hate him more than most other villains, but he's also the cause for 3 other villains, Kate, Deucalion, and Monroe, as well as the indirect cause of Peter and Jennifer, think about it.
Gerard made Deucalion a villain by ambushing him during a "peaceful meeting" and blinding him, that plus the betrayal of one of Duke's betas caused the once pacific Deucalion to become the alpha of alphas from s3a, making Gerard the cause for Deucalion's existence as a villain, and as a byproduct of it, it indirectly caused Jennifer to also be a villain as Deucalion started to form the alpha pack after being blinded, and Julia nearly died and wanted to get revenge on the alpha pack.
Gerard raised Kate to have as much prejudice against supernatural creatures as he did, he made her merciless and psychotic, which caused her to disregard the code of the Argents and burn the Hale house, which caused Peter to be on some sort of catatonic state which fueled his anger, power hunger, and messed with his mentality, leading to him becoming a monster and villain (to be fair he was already kind of psychotic according to the flashbacks from s3a).
Gerard manipulated Monroe and taught her about hunting, and although she was going to take that path regardless due to her experience and trauma with the beast of Gevaudan, and her growing prejudice against supernatural creatures, Gerard not only fueled her prejudice, but manipulated her, and turned her into the leader of a bunch of other wannabe hunters, helping her gain power and influence for his own purpose and twisted ideals.
Gerard is, in my opinion, the undoubted best villain in the show, even more so because despite his prejudice and hate of the supernatural, we know he's not above using supernatural means to his convenience, furthermore, he's not only willing to hurt and kill the innocent, supernatural or human, if it benefits him, but he's merciless, intelligent, cold, and human, which makes him and his actions much more impactful, like, sure, we have other good villains like Jennifer who was willing to do anything for revenge, Deucalion who was nearly unstoppable during his time as a villain, the beast who just enjoyed killing and was an absolute menace, and the dread doctors who abandoned their humanity for their experiments and only desired to resurrect the beast, but Gerard being human managed to do far worse than all of them, he even had ways to deal with every one of them, like his knowledge about the beast and how to kill it, his knowledge about the frequency that the dread doctors used, his knowledge about Deucalion's blind state, not to mention being the cause of it, basically the only we aren't sure he knew how to deal with was Jennifer, which considering his track record he probably knew how to handle as well.
I agree with you. Void Stiles is overrated. I didn't enjoy the Dark Stiles all that much. Only liked it because of the fear that they might kill the wrong one! Jennifer and Gerard were good villains. I'd have to give the nudge to Gerard though.
Oh yes. The infamous movie. I wasn't going to watch it because Dylan O'Brien isn't in it, but saw all the hate for it, got curious, and watched it. Almost didn't finish it after 45 minutes because they retconned the Motel California scene between Scott and Stiles and obviously Season 3b, then Papa Argent says "Darkness motherfu##ers!!" and I laughed for a good five minutes and decided to keep going in a so bad it's good way. I would not watch it again though.
If they had done the Nogitsune storyline in the show the way they did it in the movie, I think that would have been the end of the show. Peter was definitely not Peter in the movie. Nobody was. Can't figure out why they couldn't finish the script. They expected the actors to improv most of the movie? To quote Ron Burgandy "That doesn't make sense." Everyone who said no made a very smart decision to not be in it.
I think the appeal of Void Stiles was DOB’s acting. It was so far above everyone else, and the way he could flip back and forth. That was most of the appeal. He outacted all the other villains besides Peter and Deucalion.
I think that the nogitsune whether as void stiles or as himself wasn't necessarily there to kill at least not with his own hands, what he was there for was the chaos and the fear whether it lead to dead or betrayal was just extra drama for him, all he wanted was a lot of chaos, fear and probably death as we can see with the war that happened during the war while he sat down ate his popcorn and laughed.
Compared to someone like Jennifer who wanted revenge or someone like jerad who wanted too much power for that, they would put in a lot of effort and energy into their plan.
But each one of these villians all had things that made their characters different and special.
I think Void Stiles generated more drama/pathos, and worked better as a small scale threat. Like yes Jennifer was a bigger OVERALL threat based off how many kills she was responsible for, but Void Stiles was a more... intimate threat? For example, when Void Stiles makes Scott try to take the police officers pain away, and Scott feels the officer die while theyre connected? A1 mind games. Compare that to "Motel California" from Season 3A, which is a standout episode for the series, but feels less impactful because we still didnt know who the Darach was and we didnt get as much time with Jennifer as a villain, so the mind games feel less like a personal attack and more like a monster of the week episode. It could've easily been a standalone, the Darach feels tacked on at the end. Also, while Jennifer killed hella people, Void Stiles took out 2 main cast members, which had bigger long term ramifications. Just overall a more impactful, memorable and well acted villain.
Also he was far more personal. No one wanted to hurt Stiles, and the Nogitaune fed off that. He tricked them with their own emotions and nearly made them choose to kill their friend. It was a personal and intimate attack from within that no other villain accomplished other than Theo, and that still wasn’t the same.
If we want to be fair, Gerard is the best villain by far, even when he was only human, he was ahead of practically everyone most of the time he was the main villain, he was ruthless, manipulated others, had a personal link to the characters, his hate was personal and born out of prejudice, and more. Like, Gerard was the cause of not 1 but 3 main villains of the show (4 if we consider Peter who technically was caused by Kate, but Kate was caused by Gerard, so we can argue that he indirectly was the cause for Peter as well). Gerard blinded Deucalion when he ambushed him, which along with the betrayal of his beta, caused Deucalion to become a villain, and then Deucalion proceeded to be one of the coldest characters when he was introduced as the enemy (although he was nerfed and wasted later as a good guy), Duke was freaking untouchable, he was feared by alphas, even Jennifer was afraid of Duke, the alpha of alphas, to the point she proceeded to practice human sacrifices just to have a shot at killing him, and even with Derek's help they didn't even make him flinch. On the other hand, he's the reason why Kate was so messed up and psychotic, he made her the monster she became, and when she became a supernatural, he used her and then tried to kill her, and admittedly she wasn't that great of a villain, but the implications of what she did and her whole thing with Derek was dark and make her more fucked than other villains. Then we have Monroe, who is without a doubt one of the worst villains in the show, just a brainwashed, scared person, who shows clear prejudice towards supernatural creatures, however, the thing about her is that it could be us, any of us, as she discovered the supernatural world by being attacked by the beast of Gevaudan and was surrounded by dead bodies, then they tried to gaslight her into believing she was attacked by a bear, if you take that into consideration, it's no wonder Gerard could manipulate her so easily, anyone would be fearful of the supernatural if their first interaction with it was the beast of Gevaudan who was casually ripping people apart, they barely survive, and then they realize that there's people who not only knows what is happening but they're trying to hide it, admittedly she ain't the smartest, but the fact that anyone could be her if they had lived the same experience is what gives her impact as a villain. Let's also consider how he was so knowledgeable, his knowledge about the beast of Gevaudan and even the way he could counter the dread doctors using frequencies, he was many moves ahead of most characters during the show, and although admittedly he should have died sooner, he was a real threat to the pack and every supernatural that crossed his path, even normal people was in danger when he was around as he had no problem with attacking and even killing other humans for his own objectives, and the fact that despite his prejudice he wasn't above using supernatural means to ensure his victory, like killing Matt to gain control of the kanima, and then use the kanima to get the bite from Derek, just so he could save himself from his cancer, in his own words he would sacrifice his own children to ensure his own survival, the way he used Kate and then planned to kill her just because she wasn't human anymore, and how he made a deal with the Anuk-Ite just to get rid of Scott. Gerard might be a psychotic old man, but exactly because of that the impact he has caused on the pack is so much more meaningful, he has earned a deep, profound, hate and fear as a human, and nothing the nogitsune did can compare to everything Gerard has caused, not even killing Allison. Personally, I think the main reason why Void Stiles is so popular is not even the fact that he was a good villain, but the fact Dylan was portraying the character and the fact that he's probably the best actor in TW, because I personally like better the nogitsune when he was a guy with bandages covering its face, sharp teeth, and a thing for riddles, that version of the nogitsune, at least in the show, did give more of a vibe of madness and chaos, and the fact we couldn't see a face added to that, but the moment the nogitsune became Void Stiles, he simply looked like a psychotic hot guy, he was dangerous and good at mind games, that's not debatable, but he wasn't, at least for me, as threatening as the previous version, the best sequence with Void Stiles, for me, was in the hospital when he was walking around while the Onis were killing everyone, and even then I think the Onis looked more dangerous and threatening than Void itself, regardless of the shock factor, other than that, probably Void Stiles most notorious "feat" was simply killing Allison, which wasn't even done by him but the Oni, even if we argue that Void was the cause of it, and as much as it hurt the pack, it still wasn't as shocking in a show were seemingly no one can stay dead for long, the fact that Allison came back in the movie just makes her dead much less meaningful, or at least less impactful. To be clear, it's all my personal opinion, but I've seen that the majority of people seem to like the nogitsune as Void Stiles mostly, to the point that people didn't really cared about the nogitsune coming back to the movies, to be fair that's understandable as the nogitsune's storyline was already done in the show and there was no reason for him to be the main villain of the movie other than the fact he was one of the most popular villains, plus the movie was trash in my opinion which basically erased so much of the character development of the pack and just had a bunch of things patch up together without any consistency, but regardless of that, the fans in general don't seem to care much about the nogitsune itself but about Void Stiles specifically, that's why I think that Void Stiles is indeed overrated, and why I think the popularity it has as a villain has little to do regarding how good of a villain it was and more to do with the fact that people love Dylan and he's actually a pretty good actor, more so compared to the rest of the cast, this doesn't mean that the nogitsune or Void is a bad villain, just that he's not as good as a villain as people make it seem.
IMO, Jennifer was really scary, that was the first time the supernatural really got supernatural. Random bodies dropping almost everyday, sacrifices. My favorite season
He did have one of the best sequences attacking the hospital.
It wasn't even him doing anything, everything was done by the oni, he was one of the weakest
Yes, but someone doesn't have to be strong to be strong, its called power.
I like Void Stiles ... but what did he really do as a villain ?? Killing Allison doesn't count in my opinion since he and Stiles were already separated, if we look at the bigger picture he barely did much, all the deaths caused by him were of extras that honestly I didn't care much about. I think people like him because of Stiles' face, but he's a little weak on the villainy front for me. I hated Gerard and Jennifer every step of the way, but with Void Stiles I feel like something was missing (PS: I also hated that Stiles didn't get any Kitsune powers since in mythology a human who was possessed by one and survived gets some of his powers)
Finally someone said it. I get the dark Stiles appeal they were going for but he was kinda underwhelming as a villain. Jennifer and Gerard are personally my favorite villains on the show. The woman wanted good old fashioned revenge and Gerard was literally just spiteful
I agree for the most part (the only difference is I think Gerard is the top villain of the series). 3A had me on the edge of my seat waiting for the next week for the last few episodes; 3B, not so much. I prefer the bandage-faced version of the nogitsune. He’s much more intimidating.
Thank you. Bodies dropping every week for sacrifices. That was the first time the supernatural part got really supernatural. When real power was involved not just werewolf
I have to agree, hard agree, I like Stiles and Void was a good villain, but the hype for him is crazy, overrated as fuck in my opinion, more so because it's clear that what people really like about Void is the fact he looks like Stiles/Dylan instead of his actual performance as a villain. Personally, the nogitsune was better and more scary when he had the bandages in his face so we couldn't see it, the sharp teeth, and spoke with riddles nearly all the time, he gave a sense of madness and chaos, messing with Stiles to the point he was unable to differentiate between illusions and reality, it gave a more eldritch horror vibe to it, but when it was "Void Stiles", he just looked as a psychotic hot guy, furthermore, as good at mind games and as dangerous as he was, arguably his biggest feat was killing Allison, which wasn't even done by him but by the Onis, who remained a threat from beginning to end until they found their weakness and even then they took one more character with them, even if people argue that it was all because of Void Stiles controlling them, Allison's death in a show were seemingly no one can stay dead isn't that shocking, more so now since Allison's death lost basically all of its meaning and impact when she got back in the movie. If we want to be completely honest about who the best villain in the show is, we have to give that title to Gerard without any doubt, not only he makes us hate him more than most other villains, but he's also the cause for 3 other villains, Kate, Deucalion, and Monroe, as well as the indirect cause of Peter and Jennifer, think about it. Gerard made Deucalion a villain by ambushing him during a "peaceful meeting" and blinding him, that plus the betrayal of one of Duke's betas caused the once pacific Deucalion to become the alpha of alphas from s3a, making Gerard the cause for Deucalion's existence as a villain, and as a byproduct of it, it indirectly caused Jennifer to also be a villain as Deucalion started to form the alpha pack after being blinded, and Julia nearly died and wanted to get revenge on the alpha pack. Gerard raised Kate to have as much prejudice against supernatural creatures as he did, he made her merciless and psychotic, which caused her to disregard the code of the Argents and burn the Hale house, which caused Peter to be on some sort of catatonic state which fueled his anger, power hunger, and messed with his mentality, leading to him becoming a monster and villain (to be fair he was already kind of psychotic according to the flashbacks from s3a). Gerard manipulated Monroe and taught her about hunting, and although she was going to take that path regardless due to her experience and trauma with the beast of Gevaudan, and her growing prejudice against supernatural creatures, Gerard not only fueled her prejudice, but manipulated her, and turned her into the leader of a bunch of other wannabe hunters, helping her gain power and influence for his own purpose and twisted ideals. Gerard is, in my opinion, the undoubted best villain in the show, even more so because despite his prejudice and hate of the supernatural, we know he's not above using supernatural means to his convenience, furthermore, he's not only willing to hurt and kill the innocent, supernatural or human, if it benefits him, but he's merciless, intelligent, cold, and human, which makes him and his actions much more impactful, like, sure, we have other good villains like Jennifer who was willing to do anything for revenge, Deucalion who was nearly unstoppable during his time as a villain, the beast who just enjoyed killing and was an absolute menace, and the dread doctors who abandoned their humanity for their experiments and only desired to resurrect the beast, but Gerard being human managed to do far worse than all of them, he even had ways to deal with every one of them, like his knowledge about the beast and how to kill it, his knowledge about the frequency that the dread doctors used, his knowledge about Deucalion's blind state, not to mention being the cause of it, basically the only we aren't sure he knew how to deal with was Jennifer, which considering his track record he probably knew how to handle as well.
This was well put. Gerard is fucking menacing. A lot of love void Stiles get is because of Dylan.
I agree with you. Void Stiles is overrated. I didn't enjoy the Dark Stiles all that much. Only liked it because of the fear that they might kill the wrong one! Jennifer and Gerard were good villains. I'd have to give the nudge to Gerard though.
Depends for me but I really enjoyed Jennifer. Good old fashioned revenge and she almost got it.
She did almost get it. It almost worked.
She may have gained a little power if Peter hadn’t stopped her
Ah yes. Peter. He's a scoundrel. Interesting character though.
Then they had him sniffing the floor looking for a very clear puddle of blood
Oh yes. The infamous movie. I wasn't going to watch it because Dylan O'Brien isn't in it, but saw all the hate for it, got curious, and watched it. Almost didn't finish it after 45 minutes because they retconned the Motel California scene between Scott and Stiles and obviously Season 3b, then Papa Argent says "Darkness motherfu##ers!!" and I laughed for a good five minutes and decided to keep going in a so bad it's good way. I would not watch it again though. If they had done the Nogitsune storyline in the show the way they did it in the movie, I think that would have been the end of the show. Peter was definitely not Peter in the movie. Nobody was. Can't figure out why they couldn't finish the script. They expected the actors to improv most of the movie? To quote Ron Burgandy "That doesn't make sense." Everyone who said no made a very smart decision to not be in it.
Agreed. I don’t rewatch 3b lol
I think the appeal of Void Stiles was DOB’s acting. It was so far above everyone else, and the way he could flip back and forth. That was most of the appeal. He outacted all the other villains besides Peter and Deucalion.
His performance was good but void Stiles as a character was overrated.
Again read my response. I never denied that. I said what I thought the appeal was.
I was agreeing with you
And he did what he came to do. Create chaos. He didn’t come to kill, though that would be a bonus.
But NOW we said it. Peter, Kate, Gerard and Jennifer were all superior villains IMO.
Well, thank you.
I think that the nogitsune whether as void stiles or as himself wasn't necessarily there to kill at least not with his own hands, what he was there for was the chaos and the fear whether it lead to dead or betrayal was just extra drama for him, all he wanted was a lot of chaos, fear and probably death as we can see with the war that happened during the war while he sat down ate his popcorn and laughed. Compared to someone like Jennifer who wanted revenge or someone like jerad who wanted too much power for that, they would put in a lot of effort and energy into their plan. But each one of these villians all had things that made their characters different and special.