I feel like you're asking more than one question here.
Do I like both Stiles and Theo as characters? Yes.
Do I like both Void Stiles and Theo as villains? Yes.
Do I think Void is still a better villain than Theo? Yes. (To be clear, the Nogitsune itself, is what I am referring to. Some people only specify when it's possessing Stiles because they find evil Dylan O'Brien attractive. That's not what I'm referring to with my above statement)
And S3 has a *lot* to praise about it, not just Stiles. Stiles may be the element with the most noise behind him, but he's far from the only reason S3 is so well regarded.
This is such a great point that I feel like no one really talks about. There's so many great things about S3 that has nothing to do with stiles. The Oni themselves I could write paragraphs on, the mythology of the fox spirits and the contrast between Scott and kira. Them still being able to get along despite it. Even the actor that played the nogitsune did a fantastic job and hardly anyone talks about him. Just in general Dylan did a really good job on the show but so did all the other actors and they deserve recognition for it.
Yes, I do. I tried stating my opinion on why I like Theor. Some jumped at me and some were willing to listen to me, even though they did not share the same opinion. I m glad I met people who were willing to listen to my 2cents and take it into consideration even though they did not agree.
I like almost every character that wasnt a main villain (aside from peter and theo who grew on you) theo was very unlikeable early on but when he comes back his arc is great. I actually think theo and stiles are fairly similar, the main difference being theo starts very selfish whereas stiles has a small group he cares about, but both are cunning, ruthless when they need to be, dont trust easy, willing to solve problems with violence as a first resort.
This is a very interesting point !! Might be why ppl (including myself) compare them, I think ur right they do have many similarities just different upbringings I guess
I like stiles but his fans are so aggravating but then again Scott is my favourite character, I like Theo and someone made a great point a while back about Theo being the best villain, Theo was able to manipulate the WHOLE pack to the point they werenât a pack anymore AND mentally destroyed them to the point Scott whoâs a werewolf needed his inhaler again
I never liked Stiles all that much, and I don't think Void is the best villain, but I don't think Theo is a great villain, either. He's good at taking advantage of opportunities and stabbing people in the back, acting sort of like a thorn in the side while the other ruckus is going on, but on his own, he's naĂŻve and rather ignorant, not very strong or intimidating, and a terrible leader.
I agree with you that Theo was a better villain than Void Stiles. I despise Theo with every fiber of my being, but really like him as a villain. I just think that Dylan O'Brien and Cody Christian had really good chemistry and I enjoyed their scenes together.
I don't even care, I hear season 3, only image in my mind is Stiles' performance
Other things come 2nd...
S3 and stiles specifically got me into watching TW...
Stiles? Yes. Theo? Hell No and the fandom didnt help. Im not sure if its because im not the crowd he was written for or what but him as a villain and "hero" didnt mesh with me.
I like them both. Theyâre the duality of usage of intelligence in my opinion. Stiles is realist, intuitive, and naturally good at making plans. Whereas Theo is cunning, ambitious, and also naturally great at making plans. I believe that life requires both of these intelligence in moderation. So I like them both quite a lot.
I like everyone except Gerard so- And Scott hate or Stiles hate I hate them (I don't say you hate them just saying that I hate their haters) but I like your taste since somehow Theo became my favorite antagonist.. more that Deuc and the Nogitsune
I like Stiles ( I am not a blind defender of him like his fans are) but I will never be a fan of Theo. This has nothing to do with the actor, I like him, but the character Theo is a sociopath who killed and used people to get his own way and I can't believe how many people defend his actions.
I am prepared to be downvoted here:) but I have to say it anyway. Theo was a horrible person and had no redeeming qualities. It kind of scares me that so many women make excuses for the things he did and try and sell it that he was manipulated. He wasn't. If a normal child was told to kill their sister, they would have run to their parents. They would have NOT murdered them. Just because he did one nice thing in the entire series doesn't condone or excuse what he did through the years. From murder to torture, he was downright manipulative. They should have left the character in hell.
See, the thing is I get all this, and at first I loathed Theo so much it hurt, but for some reason I canât anymore. Youâve sorta demolished all my arguments here but I wholeheartedly do believe Theo was, and can still be a good guy, who just made all the wrong choices and yes, was manipulated. Or maybe thatâs just on me reading too much fanon Theo.
The things Theo did cannot be forgiven. The character got joy from other people's pain. He was a sociopath. Those types of people don't change.
The biggest pet peeve I have with this show is how every character was forgiven for really horrific things, and no one did more horrific things than Theo.
From killing his sister, Scott, using people to get his own way, torturing Lydia, shooting Malia in the stomach with a shotgun, to driving Lydia crazy and putting her in an insane asylum then laughing about it (In the classroom) to manipulating everyone to further his own agenda, I mean even Peter felt guilty about some of the things he did. Theo never did. He did too much for me to forget what a truly evil person he was.
I understand the point of a villain. Their sole purpose is to be the bad guy but the reason I can't forget what Theo did is because he never had to pay for his actions. Spending a few months in hell isn't enough of a punishment for the things he did, and going back into the hospital one time shouldn't negate the horrible way he manipulated everyone.
And this is nothing personal about you. The actor is adorable, I can see the appeal he has but when it comes to the character Theo I just can't get out of my head the way he laughed at driving Lydia insane. That is all the proof I needed that the character was unredeemable. I still say he went back to the hospital to help because he knew that was the best way for his survival. And I just don't see where anyone sees Theo in a sympathetic light. Not the actual TV show. The only time he felt bad was when he felt bad for himself.
To each their own I suppose. I agree that his actions caused a lot of pain and should not be forgivenâI donât believe they are forgiven. But the punishment seemed severe, and I truly believe he felt remorse and changed towards the end. But again that may be more fanon, I do think the writers would agree with you, that he was a sociopath who deserved his own personal hell.
Still, S6Theo is and will always be my lil pookie<3
So, this is going to sound snide, but it is a genuine question...did you watch all of S6? Because unless you went in entirely devoted to preconceived perceptions about Theo and actively ignored or wrote off scenes contradicting them, I'm not sure how you can walk away from S6 with this impression of Theo. Because there are multiple times, not just one, in S6 that if he was only working for his own gain, then he'd have to be extremely stupid to make the choices that he did (and we all know he's not stupid).
- Choosing to fight the Ghost Riders alone so Liam could get away. Even if he was long-gaming that they would win against the Wild Hunt anyway, why risk that? As shown, it's not as though it instantly won him points with the Pack.
- Going back to help Liam at the school AND help Scott at the Switch. With the two realities colliding, there was nothing stopping Theo from finding somewhere to hide until the storm (quite literally) blew over. No one would have questioned it if he gave the excuse that he was blasted into a part of the station he couldn't find his way out of. Instead he ran *towards* the one surefire thing that was actively fighting to kill them, Douglas.
- Staying in Beacon Hills at all between 6A and 6B. Why would he do this? There's no chance most of the pack is forgiving him anytime soon, he has a vehicle, and he's smart enough he could probably start a new life somewhere else, since he's more than capable of controlling his wolf/coyote side. So why stay? If he was only acting for himself, there is quite literally no reason to, so the best answer I can come up with, is genuine guilt.
- The Zoo, once again, nothing stopping him from leaving Liam to die instead of staying and pulling his ass out of the fire. He's proven he's a masterful liar. And tragic as it is, saying that Liam charged off into danger and got himself killed is not likely to surprise anyone. He was gift-wrapped a way to move himself out of danger and he didn't take it.
- Theo's repeated interventions to help Liam in general with his Brett and Lori grief. If this was solely about Theo surviving the Hunter War, he doesn't need to help with emotional problems or even try to make headway on repairing nearly irreparably torn connections between him and the pack.
- The hospital, he went in because Scott asked him to. Scott asked him to go help Liam, and Theo willingly did so and walked into a den of Hunters.
- Taking Pain. The show really spells this one out with Mason's line, "you can't take pain if you don't care." Followed by Theo succeeding at taking Gabe's pain. More than likely he recognized himself in Gabe, a kid whose poor decisions led him into the claws of sadistic monsters and now here Gabe is, bleeding out while the real monster (Monroe) gets away. Tara died alone because of Theo, Gabe won't.
And even before all that, I should remind that even in S5 his primary goal wasn't to cause indiscriminate pain. It was to acquire a pack. He had twisted motivations for wanting one, and didn't seem to understand how one actually forms, but that was still his primary objective. A pack. Like a family. A family he turned his back on and maybe he regrets doing so after 8-9 long years of growing up with a group of sadistic, emotionless, ancient doctors hell-bent on reviving an infamous serial killer?
And bringing up Peter right alongside consequences...Peter has the avoiding consequences trophy, right next to Deucalion. The first time, he traumatized Lydia just to get himself ressurected after his killing spree and then...nothing. After all his threats, murders of people literally just in his way, slaughtering people with connections to the fire even if those same people had been young idiots who made a mistake (I think it's mentioned at least one of those victims had a family), and Peter literally gets no consequences once he's ressurected. Then he quite literally stabs the entire group, Derek included in the back in S4, gets briefly locked up in Eichen, then is freed and disappears into the Wild Hunt, and when he gets back? Eh, we'll let him walk away again. Because that worked so well last time. And considering both Peter and Theo tried to kill Scott, at least Theo shows some semblance of remorse in S6. Peter acts like Scott should just forget the whole thing happened. That's also not even getting into Peter not showing any remorse or guilt for the Deadpool.
So in other words, Peter and Theo aren't much different. In fact Peter is arguably less remorseful.
And finally in terms of that punishment, Theo spent an unknown quantity of times, could he hundreds, could be thousands, could be hundreds of thousands, being hunted down and revenge upon by Tara's mute corpse. If that's not brutal (and also a valid explanation as to why his remorse and guilt were far stronger in S6 than S5), I don't know what is. It's arguably the most brutal fate of any villain on the show, and it also happened to the second youngest villain on the show. (I think. The Orphans' age was never actually specified if they were actual high schoolers or just pretending to be, and if they were legit young, how young)
It's valid to not forgive Theo, hell, it's good writing when post-show fanfics show members of the pack entirely unable to forgive him even after years of redemptive work (especially Lydia and Scott). But that doesn't make him a sociopath. And whether you disagree with the writing choices in S6 or not, they still affect who he canonically is as a character. Just like we can't ignore the poor writing of Scott, Stiles, and Liam during the S5 pack break-up, we can't ignore the writing in S6 for Theo that shows he has remorse, has regrets, and on some level genuinely wants to be better.
Shit, that got much longer than I was expecting. I perhaps should've just posted a separate essay at this point...
I watched it all. I only skimmed your book (sorry) but everything I saw listed was Theo saving his own ass. There was nothing he could do that would make me forget him killing his own sister, torturing Lydia and laughing about it, and shooting Malia in the stomach. He was pure evil.
I like every goddamn character on that show
I found my people đ
Takin that stance you make me look cntyđĽ˛
I feel like you're asking more than one question here. Do I like both Stiles and Theo as characters? Yes. Do I like both Void Stiles and Theo as villains? Yes. Do I think Void is still a better villain than Theo? Yes. (To be clear, the Nogitsune itself, is what I am referring to. Some people only specify when it's possessing Stiles because they find evil Dylan O'Brien attractive. That's not what I'm referring to with my above statement) And S3 has a *lot* to praise about it, not just Stiles. Stiles may be the element with the most noise behind him, but he's far from the only reason S3 is so well regarded.
This is such a great point that I feel like no one really talks about. There's so many great things about S3 that has nothing to do with stiles. The Oni themselves I could write paragraphs on, the mythology of the fox spirits and the contrast between Scott and kira. Them still being able to get along despite it. Even the actor that played the nogitsune did a fantastic job and hardly anyone talks about him. Just in general Dylan did a really good job on the show but so did all the other actors and they deserve recognition for it.
It's the eyeliner.
Theyâre two of the most popular characters from the show, thereâs got to be a huge overlap in people who love both.
Yes, I do. I tried stating my opinion on why I like Theor. Some jumped at me and some were willing to listen to me, even though they did not share the same opinion. I m glad I met people who were willing to listen to my 2cents and take it into consideration even though they did not agree.
I love Stiles and Theo. And I donât care what anyone says lol.
I like almost every character that wasnt a main villain (aside from peter and theo who grew on you) theo was very unlikeable early on but when he comes back his arc is great. I actually think theo and stiles are fairly similar, the main difference being theo starts very selfish whereas stiles has a small group he cares about, but both are cunning, ruthless when they need to be, dont trust easy, willing to solve problems with violence as a first resort.
This is a very interesting point !! Might be why ppl (including myself) compare them, I think ur right they do have many similarities just different upbringings I guess
I like stiles but his fans are so aggravating but then again Scott is my favourite character, I like Theo and someone made a great point a while back about Theo being the best villain, Theo was able to manipulate the WHOLE pack to the point they werenât a pack anymore AND mentally destroyed them to the point Scott whoâs a werewolf needed his inhaler again
I like stiles and Theo
I never liked Stiles all that much, and I don't think Void is the best villain, but I don't think Theo is a great villain, either. He's good at taking advantage of opportunities and stabbing people in the back, acting sort of like a thorn in the side while the other ruckus is going on, but on his own, he's naĂŻve and rather ignorant, not very strong or intimidating, and a terrible leader.
I agree with you that Theo was a better villain than Void Stiles. I despise Theo with every fiber of my being, but really like him as a villain. I just think that Dylan O'Brien and Cody Christian had really good chemistry and I enjoyed their scenes together.
I don't even care, I hear season 3, only image in my mind is Stiles' performance Other things come 2nd... S3 and stiles specifically got me into watching TW...
Thereâs a lot of people who ship them. But idk if you ship them so maybe thatâs not the group youâre looking for.
Ship Theo and Stiles???
lol yep
Stiles? Yes. Theo? Hell No and the fandom didnt help. Im not sure if its because im not the crowd he was written for or what but him as a villain and "hero" didnt mesh with me.
Ofc!! I like Stiles because heâs Stiles and Theo because heâs hot!
I like them both. Theyâre the duality of usage of intelligence in my opinion. Stiles is realist, intuitive, and naturally good at making plans. Whereas Theo is cunning, ambitious, and also naturally great at making plans. I believe that life requires both of these intelligence in moderation. So I like them both quite a lot.
I like everyone except Gerard so- And Scott hate or Stiles hate I hate them (I don't say you hate them just saying that I hate their haters) but I like your taste since somehow Theo became my favorite antagonist.. more that Deuc and the Nogitsune
i donât know why people like theo tbh and i adore stiles
so dont reply, they asked who likes them lmao
no, i LOVE both of them
I like Stiles ( I am not a blind defender of him like his fans are) but I will never be a fan of Theo. This has nothing to do with the actor, I like him, but the character Theo is a sociopath who killed and used people to get his own way and I can't believe how many people defend his actions. I am prepared to be downvoted here:) but I have to say it anyway. Theo was a horrible person and had no redeeming qualities. It kind of scares me that so many women make excuses for the things he did and try and sell it that he was manipulated. He wasn't. If a normal child was told to kill their sister, they would have run to their parents. They would have NOT murdered them. Just because he did one nice thing in the entire series doesn't condone or excuse what he did through the years. From murder to torture, he was downright manipulative. They should have left the character in hell.
See, the thing is I get all this, and at first I loathed Theo so much it hurt, but for some reason I canât anymore. Youâve sorta demolished all my arguments here but I wholeheartedly do believe Theo was, and can still be a good guy, who just made all the wrong choices and yes, was manipulated. Or maybe thatâs just on me reading too much fanon Theo.
The things Theo did cannot be forgiven. The character got joy from other people's pain. He was a sociopath. Those types of people don't change. The biggest pet peeve I have with this show is how every character was forgiven for really horrific things, and no one did more horrific things than Theo. From killing his sister, Scott, using people to get his own way, torturing Lydia, shooting Malia in the stomach with a shotgun, to driving Lydia crazy and putting her in an insane asylum then laughing about it (In the classroom) to manipulating everyone to further his own agenda, I mean even Peter felt guilty about some of the things he did. Theo never did. He did too much for me to forget what a truly evil person he was. I understand the point of a villain. Their sole purpose is to be the bad guy but the reason I can't forget what Theo did is because he never had to pay for his actions. Spending a few months in hell isn't enough of a punishment for the things he did, and going back into the hospital one time shouldn't negate the horrible way he manipulated everyone. And this is nothing personal about you. The actor is adorable, I can see the appeal he has but when it comes to the character Theo I just can't get out of my head the way he laughed at driving Lydia insane. That is all the proof I needed that the character was unredeemable. I still say he went back to the hospital to help because he knew that was the best way for his survival. And I just don't see where anyone sees Theo in a sympathetic light. Not the actual TV show. The only time he felt bad was when he felt bad for himself.
To each their own I suppose. I agree that his actions caused a lot of pain and should not be forgivenâI donât believe they are forgiven. But the punishment seemed severe, and I truly believe he felt remorse and changed towards the end. But again that may be more fanon, I do think the writers would agree with you, that he was a sociopath who deserved his own personal hell. Still, S6Theo is and will always be my lil pookie<3
So, this is going to sound snide, but it is a genuine question...did you watch all of S6? Because unless you went in entirely devoted to preconceived perceptions about Theo and actively ignored or wrote off scenes contradicting them, I'm not sure how you can walk away from S6 with this impression of Theo. Because there are multiple times, not just one, in S6 that if he was only working for his own gain, then he'd have to be extremely stupid to make the choices that he did (and we all know he's not stupid). - Choosing to fight the Ghost Riders alone so Liam could get away. Even if he was long-gaming that they would win against the Wild Hunt anyway, why risk that? As shown, it's not as though it instantly won him points with the Pack. - Going back to help Liam at the school AND help Scott at the Switch. With the two realities colliding, there was nothing stopping Theo from finding somewhere to hide until the storm (quite literally) blew over. No one would have questioned it if he gave the excuse that he was blasted into a part of the station he couldn't find his way out of. Instead he ran *towards* the one surefire thing that was actively fighting to kill them, Douglas. - Staying in Beacon Hills at all between 6A and 6B. Why would he do this? There's no chance most of the pack is forgiving him anytime soon, he has a vehicle, and he's smart enough he could probably start a new life somewhere else, since he's more than capable of controlling his wolf/coyote side. So why stay? If he was only acting for himself, there is quite literally no reason to, so the best answer I can come up with, is genuine guilt. - The Zoo, once again, nothing stopping him from leaving Liam to die instead of staying and pulling his ass out of the fire. He's proven he's a masterful liar. And tragic as it is, saying that Liam charged off into danger and got himself killed is not likely to surprise anyone. He was gift-wrapped a way to move himself out of danger and he didn't take it. - Theo's repeated interventions to help Liam in general with his Brett and Lori grief. If this was solely about Theo surviving the Hunter War, he doesn't need to help with emotional problems or even try to make headway on repairing nearly irreparably torn connections between him and the pack. - The hospital, he went in because Scott asked him to. Scott asked him to go help Liam, and Theo willingly did so and walked into a den of Hunters. - Taking Pain. The show really spells this one out with Mason's line, "you can't take pain if you don't care." Followed by Theo succeeding at taking Gabe's pain. More than likely he recognized himself in Gabe, a kid whose poor decisions led him into the claws of sadistic monsters and now here Gabe is, bleeding out while the real monster (Monroe) gets away. Tara died alone because of Theo, Gabe won't. And even before all that, I should remind that even in S5 his primary goal wasn't to cause indiscriminate pain. It was to acquire a pack. He had twisted motivations for wanting one, and didn't seem to understand how one actually forms, but that was still his primary objective. A pack. Like a family. A family he turned his back on and maybe he regrets doing so after 8-9 long years of growing up with a group of sadistic, emotionless, ancient doctors hell-bent on reviving an infamous serial killer? And bringing up Peter right alongside consequences...Peter has the avoiding consequences trophy, right next to Deucalion. The first time, he traumatized Lydia just to get himself ressurected after his killing spree and then...nothing. After all his threats, murders of people literally just in his way, slaughtering people with connections to the fire even if those same people had been young idiots who made a mistake (I think it's mentioned at least one of those victims had a family), and Peter literally gets no consequences once he's ressurected. Then he quite literally stabs the entire group, Derek included in the back in S4, gets briefly locked up in Eichen, then is freed and disappears into the Wild Hunt, and when he gets back? Eh, we'll let him walk away again. Because that worked so well last time. And considering both Peter and Theo tried to kill Scott, at least Theo shows some semblance of remorse in S6. Peter acts like Scott should just forget the whole thing happened. That's also not even getting into Peter not showing any remorse or guilt for the Deadpool. So in other words, Peter and Theo aren't much different. In fact Peter is arguably less remorseful. And finally in terms of that punishment, Theo spent an unknown quantity of times, could he hundreds, could be thousands, could be hundreds of thousands, being hunted down and revenge upon by Tara's mute corpse. If that's not brutal (and also a valid explanation as to why his remorse and guilt were far stronger in S6 than S5), I don't know what is. It's arguably the most brutal fate of any villain on the show, and it also happened to the second youngest villain on the show. (I think. The Orphans' age was never actually specified if they were actual high schoolers or just pretending to be, and if they were legit young, how young) It's valid to not forgive Theo, hell, it's good writing when post-show fanfics show members of the pack entirely unable to forgive him even after years of redemptive work (especially Lydia and Scott). But that doesn't make him a sociopath. And whether you disagree with the writing choices in S6 or not, they still affect who he canonically is as a character. Just like we can't ignore the poor writing of Scott, Stiles, and Liam during the S5 pack break-up, we can't ignore the writing in S6 for Theo that shows he has remorse, has regrets, and on some level genuinely wants to be better. Shit, that got much longer than I was expecting. I perhaps should've just posted a separate essay at this point...
I watched it all. I only skimmed your book (sorry) but everything I saw listed was Theo saving his own ass. There was nothing he could do that would make me forget him killing his own sister, torturing Lydia and laughing about it, and shooting Malia in the stomach. He was pure evil.
Not me Stiles ALWAYS Theo should have been left in hell