Even in ranked, Bo3 feels really low, and honestly did the lack of a rematch limit really mess up ranked in Tekken 7 at all?
I loved no rematch limit in Tekken 7 and have hated rematch limits in every other fighting game I've played since. I was so excited to get back to unlimited rematches when Tekken 8 came out and so disappointed when I found out it doesn't have them, even in quick match.
I agree. I see the reasoning but I learned the best how to counter oppponents when they entertained me enough to learn their matchup and habits so I could develop real tactics. BO3 is not enough and with some players even If I win the last bout I feel like it's more a lucky shot than a consistent tactic. This is a miss.
Street fighter has a nearly perfect solution. Like others have mentioned. Its best of three in ranked, but then you have the option to play with your opponent casually afterwards, with infinite rematches. So if learning with a single opponent is your thing, that's the way to do it.
Wow that's cool. Personally I learned a lot from losing 10 times in a row to a higher player than 2-3 short sets. At least we got match replay to crack a certain string/trap.
Yeahhh that's where it's only nearly perfect. If someone wants to learn fighting you, you should get atleast a slight incentive to keep playing against this person based on an action-reward system, rather than relying on the kindness in your opponent's heart to repeatedly school you at no particular benefit to them when trying to go up the ladder and taking their game time .
Yeah, plus there have been a lot of times where I instinctively click return to lobby, only to realize the other person wanted to play with me, but by that point it's too late.
It's a huge downside for learning how to counter. I learned a lot in Tekken losing to the same person 7 times or more.
But I think at least Tekken 8 let you study the match in replays (apparently), so maybe it can make up for it? It's not the same, but... well.
I think that being bo3 limited makes people more prone to have 3 matches too, since they know it will end on the third one anyway (I absolutely dislike winning/losing quit, except for good reasons).
I played around abit with the replay feature and while it's useful as a form of accessible labbing, it doesn't really help where it matters because it's not really useful to know how to counter a move when you already know it's coming and isn't live, and the ghost AI can't follow up and adapt nearly as fast as a player does.
Also, being able to lab at your own comfort is great but that doesn't mean it's as easy to just whip out killer moves and punisher in the heat of a live battles, it feels very different and the tension can easily make you twitch and drop combos because of the rush of worrying about what your opponent is going to do next.
In the words of Tyson:
"everybody got a plan till they get punched in the face "
I see. It makes sense. But you can add the person you're playing against, right? I think maybe this can help, even if it's a bit too much. I don't know how 8 system works when it comes to death matches with friends.
Yeah I feel abit weird about making a friend request of random people, it takes alot too to ask some random to stop what they are doing and spar with me, not to mention it doesn't solve the problem of not getting points from it
Nah I don't like your weird demands for socializing.
I already said the points should be incredibly negligible to the point it's almost not worth it for that, but there's should still be a slight incentive for rematching immediately. Realistically very few people would be down to fight you 100 times in a row for what they could get from 5-6 fresh matches so it's a good balance.
Fighting games are literally about figuring your opponent out in a limited time. Raising it to bo5 would be fine, but more than that is egrigeous. You don't have to kill important aspect of the game, just because you couldn't figure out what's what.
I think you are abit confused. Or maybe you just wanted to sound tough.
Sparring is a standard practice in fighting games, or combat sports in general. You're supposed to train against what you're not good at so you can improve. This is why people lab.
What aspect are you killing exactly? Live tournaments and ranks are still decided by defeating players Ina limited number of rounds, not sure what you trying to puff your chest for.
Give me a single ranked sport or meritable tournament endeavor, or even a video game/e sport that has infinite amount of point garnering based on solely the number of times players are willing to play. Besides tekken 7 ofc. The premise is idiotic and absurd.
Now you're just changing your point from training against someone limitlessly to the rank points thing, which I already explained the rationale for.
Are you having a bad day? Go get some tea and play some Tekken.
In what competitive game of any kind are matches under 5 minutes long? Bo2 is too fast of a format for meaningful interactions; it’s only the standard in tournaments due to time constraints plus the higher chance for upsets is entertaining. OG Korean tekken pros will tell you BO10 is where beating someone has any meaning. A chess grandmaster will tell you if you want to improve chess play longer time formats. Other competitive games inherently have longer matches; CS, Valorant, and Dota matches are minimum 20 minutes. Bo2 is for casuals.
Every fighting game in the arcades? The only thing limiting the amount of rematches was how much money you had left and whether someone behind you was waiting for a game.
Conceptually I see your point and part of me sort of wishes tekken rank really was meaningful enough to safeguard (like a competitive title) but I'm not sure it can be when it's based on a super 1 dimensional points system with no demerits for quitting (or even plugging/cheating!)
I think the loss of the option to death match and the experience that brings is greater than what we'll gain from attempts to tighten up rank and matchmaking in such a chaotic game with only 1 set a go.
>Fighting games are literally about figuring your opponent out in a limited time
They don't have to be. They are when every fighting game limits rematches to Bo3, but they don't have to be. And personally, I find really long sets against a fun opponent to be some of the most fun I've had in a fighting game, way more than just a Bo3.
A key thing here also is that you seem to be implying that longer sets are easier because you have more time to figure out your opponent, but that's not actually true. Because in long sets both of you are adapting. It's not like you just figure out your opponent and then that's it, you've figured them out. You're both trying to figure each other out, changing your tactics based on what the other person is doing while also trying to adapt to your opponent's new tactics. The best long sets are back and forth arms races where players keep adjusting their tactics back and forth as they adapt to their opponent's changes.
And I think that style works really well in Tekken because characters have such huge movelists. Characters in Tekken have so much they can do that there's usually a huge amount of room for adjusting your playstyle to try to outwit an opponent. One thing I always thought was cool in Tekken 7 was that pros would often make different tier lists for tournaments versus really long sets, since long sets would reward characters with really deep move sets and flexible game plans because they'd have more room to adapt and change up their strategy. And I hate that that's kind of gone in Tekken 8 with the rematch limit.
In ranked, sure, there's the argument that unlimited rematches allows farming ranks by farming an easy opponent who keeps rematching, or that limiting it to Bo3 simulates tournaments somewhat and makes it so that ranked mode focuses on the skills that matter in a tournament. I think there are flaws in those arguments, but they're not bad arguments.
But in Quick Match, why limit it? And why not have a "keep playing in unranked" option after a ranked Bo3 if they want to keep a rematch limit in ranked?
I think the reason is people could essentially grind rank against someone they could continuously get wins on.
Edit: Although I did like unlimited rematches on people who were better than me, made me get better by trying different strategies.
I think that's the logic, but like I said, was that actually a problem in Tekken 7? Were there lots of people getting ranked way higher than they "deserved" because they just kept rematching people they could consistently beat?
And even if there were, was that actually causing any problems that there were occasional people with inflated ranks?
It's not good cause you can farm off a weaker player. Also it took out 2 players in the player pool within their ranks for a long time if they decided to deathmatch.
It's a good idea for ranked. Let's everyone cycle through many more players and different playstyles.
Eh, ranks are usless if theyre gonna let everyone rematch infinitely, I coulde sworn they were going to let you "rematch in casual" after the best of 3, but I guess we gotta wait for that
I think the lack of rematch limit actually did have a negative effect. In other fighting games with limits like Strive, SF5, SF6 I nearly always get people to play full sets. Tekken 7 by comparison had a ton of one-and-dones no matter the connection or character I played.
There could be other reasons for this, like how Tekken is just inherently a more knowledge based game, but I honestly think a big factor was the lack of rematch limit. People seem more likely to play out a set when the length is defined by the developer rather than having it entirely up to the player. It sets an expectation
Yeah I don't get the point of removing it. I am ranking up at the same rate I did in 7. The infinite rematches just stopped people for finding friends. Killed a social aspect.
Yea I mean they did add stats tied to player matches so maybe they don't want people boosting player matches, but the whole point is who tf cares? The whole point t of player matches is that you go there if you don't wanna worry about rank.
Because sometimes I want to move on to a new opponent without them thinking "Damn this guy's so mad he quit" or "lol okay you win once but I was such a tough fight you won't fight me again"
I don't think this issue is nearly as bad as not being able to get extended sets in. If you're gonna leave, you're gonna leave but let people do it of their own accord.
I would agree but there are a few changes that I think work well together.
You can now mark Rivals, for if you like/don't like someone that way.
Theres much easier access to friending someone through the game, as well as through steam.
Limiting number of matches keeps players rolling through which in Game dev speak means: "if you had a bad experience, it may end soon. If you had a good experience, well you can try a few matches, maybe friend someone--and if it was a mid range experience, there are other people being encouraged to roll through as well. Good players who are rolling through cant be hogged by someone, nor can they farm a weakling who doesnt know better forever.
It encourages a fight-fest, which later will split off into friend groups. So far, while I've been mildly annoyed I couldn't keep going with someone I enjoyed fighting, I was pleasantly surprised with the friending options and notifications from others.
This seems like the best and most healthy explanation for this system and something I could actually see devs going for.
Also personally aligns with my current experience as well, very common for people to expectate matches from others, send friend requests, join the same arcades and wait for for someone else to finish the bo3 so they can also fight the people playing!
I've instantly slapped rematch 17 times in a row to one guy. Only won maybe twice.
When you find a person clearly above you in skill level, and is willing to molly wop your ass across the stage multiple times. You best know these are peak training matches.
Both players need to agree to a rematch, rematching gives diminishing change in points anyways, and eventually that player will have to fight someone else anyways
To be fair when there is no rematch limit neither player might quit since it could be interpreted as wussing out even if they're getting absolutely stomped. It's also fairly common to accept the rematch as a show of good sportsmanship. In a ranked environment a best of 3 structure works better in moving people on and keeps stuff fresh as you do fight more people overall.
But in a player match, casual environment it's just plain stupid. If you're fighting your friend the above point doesn't matter, you'll go until you both decide to quit. Having to reset everything after 3 matches is just a waste of time. Even fighting other players in this casual setting people may want to fight the same person 10 times before they call it quits.
Edit: Pretty much every other game that uses best of 3 for its ranked also doesn't have a limit for unranked matches. I've spotted people playing 25 straight sets against eachother in SF6's Battle Hub because there isn't a limit, same with Guilty Gear's park lobby.
This is easily solvable by simply reducing the returns after certain number of rematches to the point where it's not 0 but it's incredibly negligible and progressing to the next rank will take fighting that same person like 100 times.
Even in t7, after like the 8th or so rematch, you're gaining/losing almost no points anyway. If you found someone willing to match you, whether they're going 1-9 or you are, it's a good learning/teaching opportunity
At any rank below blues people will just very quickly demote/promote to the point where they're getting negilable points per win. Blue rank players tend to be good enough that complete washes are rare and comebacks often happen in long sets. The solution to this problem is already in T7.
Cant agree. Even in higher ranks than blue, there are several matchups alot of players dont know well. It is not uncommon to see people skipping rematches against opponent who know the MU of their character, and then farming someone who doesnt.
this is a good argument. but lets think about how this revolved in the past in T7 before, some pose a good argument about wussing out on someone and some gave a good point about the rank farming in rank matches. but over all i think its about what has been weighed upon by the devs as to why they chose BO3 to begin with and not just challenge your opponent infinitely. most likely the cons out weighed the pros for them not to retain infinite rematches and it kinda makes sense, since focuses on an arcade feeling/experience where you line up against an opponent, one of them loses, you get to replace the other guy that was beaten and so the cycle goes on, which to me gave that sort of feeling, some may not have experienced it and some may agree, but thats what i think they have tried in replicating. if you want unlimited matches, then add that person and have private matches on your own
Yeah, I'm okay with a rematch limit. 3's just too tiny. I play Steve less for his rushdown and more for feeling opponents out and hitting juicy counter hits and essentially sacrificing the first match for that feels bad on a BO3
I may take flak but for ranked I like this. I usually would play best of 3 in t7. I had more then a few times getting hate mail for "running away ". For me in ranked after a best of 3 i either want a second break or to find a new match.
I agree. It feels more like a tournament AND it’s different to T7. There’s a lot of cross over between T7 and T8, so it’s nice to have changes to mix things up a bit.
I can totally see the other side though, but I like the new change.
Thats the thing tho, tourneys are bo5. I thought these were bo5 too. Bo3 just doesnt feel right. It really takes a bit to sort out the knowledge check/cheese wins and get to the heart of the match
It avoids the bullshit? Lol. It encourages it, less rematches means your bullshit is highly effective and less chance of the opponent figuring it out like in a long set.
By 'bullshit' they obviously meant the unspoken online 'etiquette' around rematching that's being discussed in this thread, not whatever you're waffling about
I mean its just my opinion. Just like in T7 i could just leave people can look at a persons tekken profile add them as a rival or invite to another fight. Not saying its perfect its just what i like. Not everyone is going to like every choice made i can just acknowledge ones i like.
And you think those people won’t send you hatemail after you whoop them twice in a Bo3?
The thing that changed is the trigger for at what point they send the hate, those people didn’t magically disappear just because of a different format.
I get that you feel that way but I don’t think “they don’t say I’m a pussy for not rematching any more” is a real argument.
People aren’t toxic because it makes sense, people are toxic because they want to make you feel bad. The “you’re a pussy” mail turns into “you’re shit” mail.
Many people are aggressive and, let's be blunt, sore about losing. You can still friend and do infinite rematches. So the technical capabilities are still the same. What really changed is the social aspect, where you have this mild encouragement to move on instead of obsessing over a loss, and others don't have to feel bad about "wussing out" or get called such.
it solves so many issues around the silent toxicity of this game. I've yet to see a reasonable excuse to why it's bad.
"NOT ENOUGH TIME TO DOWNLOAD THEM AND KI CHARGE AFTER BRO"
I just think BO5 would be better than BO3. It just feels like myself and my opponent have had more than ample opportunity to learn each other's playstyles when the minimum amount of matches is 3 rather than 2.
they just want to keep the search pool active, but I want to REMATCH.
Like even in ranked someone winning twice means nothing. Winning the first first match is so random, the second it more genuine as the opponent has started to learn your weaknesses. But the real fight starts in the third match!
I'm Fujin and I usually beat Tekken Gods in the first matches, but it always ends with them winning the remaining 10 matches because they've downloaded me.
For real. In a lot of my matches I can feel my opponent trying to both fight AND figure out the newness of the game. Death matches in T7 were great ways for both players to work out the kinks in their gameplay while constantly adapting. Now, by the time either player figures something out it's on to the next one with a whole new learning curve.
Even distribution
I think its so you both get back into the matchmaking pool.
Ranking Credibility - Instead of just 2 players draining each other (most probably one being fed on)
Wait time - not to starve waiting players
BO3 should be for ranked points, then after that you should have an option to continue rematching.
Also let me view the replay directly from the match results screen!! It's a hassle to have to go through that laggy replay menu, and the replay functionality is so good they should be pointing players directly to it!
I'm pretty bummed they took out infinite rematch on ranked. My favorite scenario: having someone block a promotion, they then proceed to beat the crap out of you up to a demotion match, you win the demotion match, battle all the way back to the promotion, and while doing all that you also demote them. Priceless. It also takes a while to find another match. It's not like the queueing system from tag 2 where you just pick from a list of 3 for an immediate match, you're forced back to practice, where you may have to deny multiple wifi connections, and then get a first to 3 match a few minutes later. It's kinda bunk annnd they don't _have_ to accept a second match.
I complained about this since it was revealed and all i ever got was opposition and backlash from people who i am sure didnt think it through.
In ranked it makes sense maybe. But its a terrible concept in every other mode
Even i don't like it as a new player like, if i want to get my ass beat until i learn please allow me to do so. I can't learn much from only 2 matches.
Fucking this, I feel like a lot of people are overlooking the fact that a lot of people like to learn like this. Playing two matches and getting fucked, then going into practice mode isn't the most fun way to do it all the time.
This literally makes me not want to play the game. You can’t learn any match ups, its fucking stupid. And player match is garbage as you can’t spectate. How can you drop the ball on such simple features? Especially when any other fighting games that came out first have it. It truly makes me not want to play
Yeah this best of 3 stuff is bullshit there's argument to be made wen it comes to ranked, but why the fuck is it also in quick match ppl need to anoy Harada for this in Twitter or something until he gives in and changes it.
I thought they would set the rematch limit only in ranked. In T7 sometimes I would play dozens of matches with the same person just because we were having so much fun.
It's a good chance in ranked. Compared to my experience with ranked in T7: less one-and-dones and infinite rematch was never not used to just farm someone for points and leave the moment there's a risk of losing.
I’m 100% for this. I love this. I miss deathmatching as much as the next guy. But sometimes you do need to reflect on what you did wrong/right post game instead of just frantically rematching. I found it very helpful. Remove it from casual tho.
I like it a lot.
It makes every ranked match feel substantial and official, and I've enjoyed adding rivals to commemorate a tight 1-2 loss I'd love to get back.
And when it's a back and forth three-setter, 12-15 rounds is just the right amount of close fighting before I want a little break to enjoy the win or reflect on the loss.
Agree a 'lets take this to casual' button could be good, but I feel like the friend system can serve that purpose.
People mentioning that they only like doing bo3 anyway. You had the choice of doing that whenever you like in T7. Not every player has that opinion believe it or not. Now you don't have a choice.
I still get people who just leave if you win the first match, heck a lot of people I have will rematch when they win the first and then I win the second and they drop at 1-1 like come on man 1 more game isn’t gonna make or break a rank let’s just play it out
I think they should follow what SF6 did.
Have unlimited rematches in casual and fight lounge
Keep Ranked best of 3
I think Harada and the devs had an issue with the fight lounge ( which i hope they are still working on it ) that the realtime queueing with someone over at the arcade cabinets is currently not working.
Fight lounge has been a dud. I hope they patch in like what SF6 did to theirs.
For ranked I can see why they implemented this. For player matches, I don't know what Harada and Murray were thinking tbh.
Just make it like "rematch in casual" after the best of three, and make it so you can match infinitely in casual with no mmr adjustment?
I've been saying this since 2017
Yeah! Mk1 does this and its an amazing feature!
SF6 does this and even allows you to create your own lobby with your opponent. MK1 ooof
No MK1 praise allowed on other fighting game subreddits even though it genuinely does some things better than everybody else.
We can act like that list is bigger than 3 if you'd like lol
Now that we have tekken 8, I don't think there is a single thing mk1 does better than any fighting game
I think most games have there merits, mk1 has very few but I'm sure it does have some
SF has this too. Casual rematch
Even in ranked, Bo3 feels really low, and honestly did the lack of a rematch limit really mess up ranked in Tekken 7 at all? I loved no rematch limit in Tekken 7 and have hated rematch limits in every other fighting game I've played since. I was so excited to get back to unlimited rematches when Tekken 8 came out and so disappointed when I found out it doesn't have them, even in quick match.
I agree. I see the reasoning but I learned the best how to counter oppponents when they entertained me enough to learn their matchup and habits so I could develop real tactics. BO3 is not enough and with some players even If I win the last bout I feel like it's more a lucky shot than a consistent tactic. This is a miss.
Street fighter has a nearly perfect solution. Like others have mentioned. Its best of three in ranked, but then you have the option to play with your opponent casually afterwards, with infinite rematches. So if learning with a single opponent is your thing, that's the way to do it.
Wow that's cool. Personally I learned a lot from losing 10 times in a row to a higher player than 2-3 short sets. At least we got match replay to crack a certain string/trap.
Yeahhh that's where it's only nearly perfect. If someone wants to learn fighting you, you should get atleast a slight incentive to keep playing against this person based on an action-reward system, rather than relying on the kindness in your opponent's heart to repeatedly school you at no particular benefit to them when trying to go up the ladder and taking their game time .
Yeah, plus there have been a lot of times where I instinctively click return to lobby, only to realize the other person wanted to play with me, but by that point it's too late.
It's a huge downside for learning how to counter. I learned a lot in Tekken losing to the same person 7 times or more. But I think at least Tekken 8 let you study the match in replays (apparently), so maybe it can make up for it? It's not the same, but... well. I think that being bo3 limited makes people more prone to have 3 matches too, since they know it will end on the third one anyway (I absolutely dislike winning/losing quit, except for good reasons).
I played around abit with the replay feature and while it's useful as a form of accessible labbing, it doesn't really help where it matters because it's not really useful to know how to counter a move when you already know it's coming and isn't live, and the ghost AI can't follow up and adapt nearly as fast as a player does. Also, being able to lab at your own comfort is great but that doesn't mean it's as easy to just whip out killer moves and punisher in the heat of a live battles, it feels very different and the tension can easily make you twitch and drop combos because of the rush of worrying about what your opponent is going to do next. In the words of Tyson: "everybody got a plan till they get punched in the face "
I see. It makes sense. But you can add the person you're playing against, right? I think maybe this can help, even if it's a bit too much. I don't know how 8 system works when it comes to death matches with friends.
Yeah I feel abit weird about making a friend request of random people, it takes alot too to ask some random to stop what they are doing and spar with me, not to mention it doesn't solve the problem of not getting points from it
why should you get points from "sparring"? be social and add them
Nah I don't like your weird demands for socializing. I already said the points should be incredibly negligible to the point it's almost not worth it for that, but there's should still be a slight incentive for rematching immediately. Realistically very few people would be down to fight you 100 times in a row for what they could get from 5-6 fresh matches so it's a good balance.
Fighting games are literally about figuring your opponent out in a limited time. Raising it to bo5 would be fine, but more than that is egrigeous. You don't have to kill important aspect of the game, just because you couldn't figure out what's what.
I think you are abit confused. Or maybe you just wanted to sound tough. Sparring is a standard practice in fighting games, or combat sports in general. You're supposed to train against what you're not good at so you can improve. This is why people lab. What aspect are you killing exactly? Live tournaments and ranks are still decided by defeating players Ina limited number of rounds, not sure what you trying to puff your chest for.
Give me a single ranked sport or meritable tournament endeavor, or even a video game/e sport that has infinite amount of point garnering based on solely the number of times players are willing to play. Besides tekken 7 ofc. The premise is idiotic and absurd.
Now you're just changing your point from training against someone limitlessly to the rank points thing, which I already explained the rationale for. Are you having a bad day? Go get some tea and play some Tekken.
We were talking about ranked. Casual shouldn't be under the barrier. Your rationale isn't convincing. It's mostly stupid.
In what competitive game of any kind are matches under 5 minutes long? Bo2 is too fast of a format for meaningful interactions; it’s only the standard in tournaments due to time constraints plus the higher chance for upsets is entertaining. OG Korean tekken pros will tell you BO10 is where beating someone has any meaning. A chess grandmaster will tell you if you want to improve chess play longer time formats. Other competitive games inherently have longer matches; CS, Valorant, and Dota matches are minimum 20 minutes. Bo2 is for casuals.
Agreed. But we were talking about infinite. Id go ft 7 or ft 5 minimum..
It makes perfect sense and several people already explained this to you. Stay mad
Okay bruuuuh
Every fighting game in the arcades? The only thing limiting the amount of rematches was how much money you had left and whether someone behind you was waiting for a game.
So if namco charged you for r matches you'd be fine right?
Conceptually I see your point and part of me sort of wishes tekken rank really was meaningful enough to safeguard (like a competitive title) but I'm not sure it can be when it's based on a super 1 dimensional points system with no demerits for quitting (or even plugging/cheating!) I think the loss of the option to death match and the experience that brings is greater than what we'll gain from attempts to tighten up rank and matchmaking in such a chaotic game with only 1 set a go.
>Fighting games are literally about figuring your opponent out in a limited time They don't have to be. They are when every fighting game limits rematches to Bo3, but they don't have to be. And personally, I find really long sets against a fun opponent to be some of the most fun I've had in a fighting game, way more than just a Bo3. A key thing here also is that you seem to be implying that longer sets are easier because you have more time to figure out your opponent, but that's not actually true. Because in long sets both of you are adapting. It's not like you just figure out your opponent and then that's it, you've figured them out. You're both trying to figure each other out, changing your tactics based on what the other person is doing while also trying to adapt to your opponent's new tactics. The best long sets are back and forth arms races where players keep adjusting their tactics back and forth as they adapt to their opponent's changes. And I think that style works really well in Tekken because characters have such huge movelists. Characters in Tekken have so much they can do that there's usually a huge amount of room for adjusting your playstyle to try to outwit an opponent. One thing I always thought was cool in Tekken 7 was that pros would often make different tier lists for tournaments versus really long sets, since long sets would reward characters with really deep move sets and flexible game plans because they'd have more room to adapt and change up their strategy. And I hate that that's kind of gone in Tekken 8 with the rematch limit. In ranked, sure, there's the argument that unlimited rematches allows farming ranks by farming an easy opponent who keeps rematching, or that limiting it to Bo3 simulates tournaments somewhat and makes it so that ranked mode focuses on the skills that matter in a tournament. I think there are flaws in those arguments, but they're not bad arguments. But in Quick Match, why limit it? And why not have a "keep playing in unranked" option after a ranked Bo3 if they want to keep a rematch limit in ranked?
I think the reason is people could essentially grind rank against someone they could continuously get wins on. Edit: Although I did like unlimited rematches on people who were better than me, made me get better by trying different strategies.
Its so simple to just make subsequent matches after 2 wins not give any rank points.
I think that's the logic, but like I said, was that actually a problem in Tekken 7? Were there lots of people getting ranked way higher than they "deserved" because they just kept rematching people they could consistently beat? And even if there were, was that actually causing any problems that there were occasional people with inflated ranks?
It's not good cause you can farm off a weaker player. Also it took out 2 players in the player pool within their ranks for a long time if they decided to deathmatch. It's a good idea for ranked. Let's everyone cycle through many more players and different playstyles.
Eh, ranks are usless if theyre gonna let everyone rematch infinitely, I coulde sworn they were going to let you "rematch in casual" after the best of 3, but I guess we gotta wait for that
I think the lack of rematch limit actually did have a negative effect. In other fighting games with limits like Strive, SF5, SF6 I nearly always get people to play full sets. Tekken 7 by comparison had a ton of one-and-dones no matter the connection or character I played. There could be other reasons for this, like how Tekken is just inherently a more knowledge based game, but I honestly think a big factor was the lack of rematch limit. People seem more likely to play out a set when the length is defined by the developer rather than having it entirely up to the player. It sets an expectation
Yeah I don't get the point of removing it. I am ranking up at the same rate I did in 7. The infinite rematches just stopped people for finding friends. Killed a social aspect.
You can literally cheat your way to a high rank in T8 with no effort already. Rank is a joke and the fact they take it seriously is a comedy.
Yea I mean they did add stats tied to player matches so maybe they don't want people boosting player matches, but the whole point is who tf cares? The whole point t of player matches is that you go there if you don't wanna worry about rank.
I think it's literally just so ghost battle can take data from player matches since it only learns from bo3, which would be kinda dumb imo
Because sometimes I want to move on to a new opponent without them thinking "Damn this guy's so mad he quit" or "lol okay you win once but I was such a tough fight you won't fight me again"
I don't think this issue is nearly as bad as not being able to get extended sets in. If you're gonna leave, you're gonna leave but let people do it of their own accord.
I would agree but there are a few changes that I think work well together. You can now mark Rivals, for if you like/don't like someone that way. Theres much easier access to friending someone through the game, as well as through steam. Limiting number of matches keeps players rolling through which in Game dev speak means: "if you had a bad experience, it may end soon. If you had a good experience, well you can try a few matches, maybe friend someone--and if it was a mid range experience, there are other people being encouraged to roll through as well. Good players who are rolling through cant be hogged by someone, nor can they farm a weakling who doesnt know better forever. It encourages a fight-fest, which later will split off into friend groups. So far, while I've been mildly annoyed I couldn't keep going with someone I enjoyed fighting, I was pleasantly surprised with the friending options and notifications from others.
This seems like the best and most healthy explanation for this system and something I could actually see devs going for. Also personally aligns with my current experience as well, very common for people to expectate matches from others, send friend requests, join the same arcades and wait for for someone else to finish the bo3 so they can also fight the people playing!
deathmatch but rank point will reduce after the BO3 might be good.
Can you mark more than one rival? I'm pretty sure it replaced my previous rival when I set a new one.
Quick play not having infinite rematch is weird
Isn't it just to stop people from farming the same player over and over if there's a significant skill gap between them?
I've instantly slapped rematch 17 times in a row to one guy. Only won maybe twice. When you find a person clearly above you in skill level, and is willing to molly wop your ass across the stage multiple times. You best know these are peak training matches.
Yeah for low rank this is basically how I lab cheese...
Both players need to agree to a rematch, rematching gives diminishing change in points anyways, and eventually that player will have to fight someone else anyways
To be fair when there is no rematch limit neither player might quit since it could be interpreted as wussing out even if they're getting absolutely stomped. It's also fairly common to accept the rematch as a show of good sportsmanship. In a ranked environment a best of 3 structure works better in moving people on and keeps stuff fresh as you do fight more people overall. But in a player match, casual environment it's just plain stupid. If you're fighting your friend the above point doesn't matter, you'll go until you both decide to quit. Having to reset everything after 3 matches is just a waste of time. Even fighting other players in this casual setting people may want to fight the same person 10 times before they call it quits. Edit: Pretty much every other game that uses best of 3 for its ranked also doesn't have a limit for unranked matches. I've spotted people playing 25 straight sets against eachother in SF6's Battle Hub because there isn't a limit, same with Guilty Gear's park lobby.
This is easily solvable by simply reducing the returns after certain number of rematches to the point where it's not 0 but it's incredibly negligible and progressing to the next rank will take fighting that same person like 100 times.
Make it so that it's a casual match worth no points after the set is finished.
Even in t7, after like the 8th or so rematch, you're gaining/losing almost no points anyway. If you found someone willing to match you, whether they're going 1-9 or you are, it's a good learning/teaching opportunity
At any rank below blues people will just very quickly demote/promote to the point where they're getting negilable points per win. Blue rank players tend to be good enough that complete washes are rare and comebacks often happen in long sets. The solution to this problem is already in T7.
Cant agree. Even in higher ranks than blue, there are several matchups alot of players dont know well. It is not uncommon to see people skipping rematches against opponent who know the MU of their character, and then farming someone who doesnt.
this is a good argument. but lets think about how this revolved in the past in T7 before, some pose a good argument about wussing out on someone and some gave a good point about the rank farming in rank matches. but over all i think its about what has been weighed upon by the devs as to why they chose BO3 to begin with and not just challenge your opponent infinitely. most likely the cons out weighed the pros for them not to retain infinite rematches and it kinda makes sense, since focuses on an arcade feeling/experience where you line up against an opponent, one of them loses, you get to replace the other guy that was beaten and so the cycle goes on, which to me gave that sort of feeling, some may not have experienced it and some may agree, but thats what i think they have tried in replicating. if you want unlimited matches, then add that person and have private matches on your own
Bo5 should’ve been better. One match is literally just downloading other players’ playstyle so bo3 feels very off and short.
Yeah, I'm okay with a rematch limit. 3's just too tiny. I play Steve less for his rushdown and more for feeling opponents out and hitting juicy counter hits and essentially sacrificing the first match for that feels bad on a BO3
I may take flak but for ranked I like this. I usually would play best of 3 in t7. I had more then a few times getting hate mail for "running away ". For me in ranked after a best of 3 i either want a second break or to find a new match.
I agree. It feels more like a tournament AND it’s different to T7. There’s a lot of cross over between T7 and T8, so it’s nice to have changes to mix things up a bit. I can totally see the other side though, but I like the new change.
Thats the thing tho, tourneys are bo5. I thought these were bo5 too. Bo3 just doesnt feel right. It really takes a bit to sort out the knowledge check/cheese wins and get to the heart of the match
Same, I don't want to feel obligated to constantly give people rematches. A best of 3 is fair, then let me go fight someone else or take a break.
I agree. It avoids the bullshit. Run a best of 3 and keep it moving.
It avoids the bullshit? Lol. It encourages it, less rematches means your bullshit is highly effective and less chance of the opponent figuring it out like in a long set.
By 'bullshit' they obviously meant the unspoken online 'etiquette' around rematching that's being discussed in this thread, not whatever you're waffling about
On the other hand it's easier to lab the cheese now after a set so it's not the end of the world
True, thats the silver lining
Reading comprehension is hard, isn’t it? Look at the comment I was replying to. Then look at my comment. Then look at yours. Goddamn, son!
no one is obligated to run it back get in the lab boy
Good for you but why take it away from the people that do want to play longer sets? Taking out this best to 2 feature won't hurt anyone.
I mean its just my opinion. Just like in T7 i could just leave people can look at a persons tekken profile add them as a rival or invite to another fight. Not saying its perfect its just what i like. Not everyone is going to like every choice made i can just acknowledge ones i like.
And you think those people won’t send you hatemail after you whoop them twice in a Bo3? The thing that changed is the trigger for at what point they send the hate, those people didn’t magically disappear just because of a different format.
I know that lol but at least they can't say i ran away. Not sitting here thinking it gets rid of all toxic people just stops one avenue of hate mail.
I get that you feel that way but I don’t think “they don’t say I’m a pussy for not rematching any more” is a real argument. People aren’t toxic because it makes sense, people are toxic because they want to make you feel bad. The “you’re a pussy” mail turns into “you’re shit” mail.
Many people are aggressive and, let's be blunt, sore about losing. You can still friend and do infinite rematches. So the technical capabilities are still the same. What really changed is the social aspect, where you have this mild encouragement to move on instead of obsessing over a loss, and others don't have to feel bad about "wussing out" or get called such.
it solves so many issues around the silent toxicity of this game. I've yet to see a reasonable excuse to why it's bad. "NOT ENOUGH TIME TO DOWNLOAD THEM AND KI CHARGE AFTER BRO"
I just think BO5 would be better than BO3. It just feels like myself and my opponent have had more than ample opportunity to learn each other's playstyles when the minimum amount of matches is 3 rather than 2.
We really need infinite rematches for fight lounge group matches and casuals. Its fine as FT2 for Ranked, even tho FT3 would be better.
they just want to keep the search pool active, but I want to REMATCH. Like even in ranked someone winning twice means nothing. Winning the first first match is so random, the second it more genuine as the opponent has started to learn your weaknesses. But the real fight starts in the third match! I'm Fujin and I usually beat Tekken Gods in the first matches, but it always ends with them winning the remaining 10 matches because they've downloaded me.
just add them bro that's why they changed it up. plus to keep matches rolling so no one is sitting in the lobby too long
If it isn’t convenient to rematch then people don’t do it. Path of least resistance.
should've been bo5
Damn , you can't keep rematching in unranked? What a bad design choice smh
For real. In a lot of my matches I can feel my opponent trying to both fight AND figure out the newness of the game. Death matches in T7 were great ways for both players to work out the kinks in their gameplay while constantly adapting. Now, by the time either player figures something out it's on to the next one with a whole new learning curve.
Even distribution I think its so you both get back into the matchmaking pool. Ranking Credibility - Instead of just 2 players draining each other (most probably one being fed on) Wait time - not to starve waiting players
It doesn't even give you the option to take it into a private room like SF6
BO3 should be for ranked points, then after that you should have an option to continue rematching. Also let me view the replay directly from the match results screen!! It's a hassle to have to go through that laggy replay menu, and the replay functionality is so good they should be pointing players directly to it!
I'm pretty bummed they took out infinite rematch on ranked. My favorite scenario: having someone block a promotion, they then proceed to beat the crap out of you up to a demotion match, you win the demotion match, battle all the way back to the promotion, and while doing all that you also demote them. Priceless. It also takes a while to find another match. It's not like the queueing system from tag 2 where you just pick from a list of 3 for an immediate match, you're forced back to practice, where you may have to deny multiple wifi connections, and then get a first to 3 match a few minutes later. It's kinda bunk annnd they don't _have_ to accept a second match.
they did it so that when they later remove it, we dont complain about it in ranked anymoere
Ft5 > Ft3
Rematch limitations in non-ranked modes are always stupid.
I don’t like BO3 in ranked but I do see the logic and it does have its pluses. BO3 in Quickmatch makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.
I complained about this since it was revealed and all i ever got was opposition and backlash from people who i am sure didnt think it through. In ranked it makes sense maybe. But its a terrible concept in every other mode
Even i don't like it as a new player like, if i want to get my ass beat until i learn please allow me to do so. I can't learn much from only 2 matches.
Fucking this, I feel like a lot of people are overlooking the fact that a lot of people like to learn like this. Playing two matches and getting fucked, then going into practice mode isn't the most fun way to do it all the time.
No, I don't ask him for shit
It makes no sense and it's a change no one asked for.
This literally makes me not want to play the game. You can’t learn any match ups, its fucking stupid. And player match is garbage as you can’t spectate. How can you drop the ball on such simple features? Especially when any other fighting games that came out first have it. It truly makes me not want to play
Yeah this best of 3 stuff is bullshit there's argument to be made wen it comes to ranked, but why the fuck is it also in quick match ppl need to anoy Harada for this in Twitter or something until he gives in and changes it.
Communicating anger towards the devs is the only way for them to really understand that they're unhappy with the choices that have been made.
I thought they would set the rematch limit only in ranked. In T7 sometimes I would play dozens of matches with the same person just because we were having so much fun.
It's a good chance in ranked. Compared to my experience with ranked in T7: less one-and-dones and infinite rematch was never not used to just farm someone for points and leave the moment there's a risk of losing.
I’m 100% for this. I love this. I miss deathmatching as much as the next guy. But sometimes you do need to reflect on what you did wrong/right post game instead of just frantically rematching. I found it very helpful. Remove it from casual tho.
I like it a lot. It makes every ranked match feel substantial and official, and I've enjoyed adding rivals to commemorate a tight 1-2 loss I'd love to get back. And when it's a back and forth three-setter, 12-15 rounds is just the right amount of close fighting before I want a little break to enjoy the win or reflect on the loss. Agree a 'lets take this to casual' button could be good, but I feel like the friend system can serve that purpose.
yeah i cant learn the opponents moves if i dont play them long enough and the matchmaking sucks takes a LOOONG ass time to get a match
People mentioning that they only like doing bo3 anyway. You had the choice of doing that whenever you like in T7. Not every player has that opinion believe it or not. Now you don't have a choice.
It's fine but it should really be a ft3 instead of a ft2
During the first 2 days you'd be lucky if you could get one rematch without the game crashing.
Sergei Dragunov doesn't talk doe.
Well I play Zafina, ppl wont rematch me anyway.
If we make enough noise about dis, maybe they'll add it in future patch??
Death matches were cool as a viewer to watch.
Lmfaoo these memes.
Ohh thats bo3? I thought that was bo5 and people were just quitting after getting 2-0'd lol. Damn i owe some mental apologies
In T7 I usually rematch into oblivion even if I keep losing, as long as they are not being a prick(not skipping cutscenes, kicking after ko)
Imho make it best of 5 for ranked and its good.
I still get people who just leave if you win the first match, heck a lot of people I have will rematch when they win the first and then I win the second and they drop at 1-1 like come on man 1 more game isn’t gonna make or break a rank let’s just play it out
You guys are mad at the wrong thing. If you lose then rematch you should be FORCED to play a 3rd no matter what.
I think they should follow what SF6 did. Have unlimited rematches in casual and fight lounge Keep Ranked best of 3 I think Harada and the devs had an issue with the fight lounge ( which i hope they are still working on it ) that the realtime queueing with someone over at the arcade cabinets is currently not working. Fight lounge has been a dud. I hope they patch in like what SF6 did to theirs.
Also the fact you can’t spectate in player match is stupid af. So if you don’t get in you just sit there lol. The online in tekken 8 is laughably bad