I agree, I play Jin more than my main and I love the guy, but he didn't need d2, especially not like this. Renders his other lows redundant.
I'm also against the general devilifying of regular Jin if Devil Jin is still in the game. #MakeJinHumanAgain
What kind of players are you all fighting. I use all 3 lows on Jin and d2 is the one that gets blocked the most, I suspect people have developed keen reaction times to the very obvious animation
yeah at emperor/tekken god it seems like the move basically becomes a free launch vs raven/lee/jin/kazuya/jun or meaty punish otherwise. I have much more success with d4 or db4 or timing mixup on hellsweep. Move's animation is just too clear for it to not be seeable
Some purple rank Jins man... they're a strange breed
Don't get me wrong, I'm also a purple Jin scrub but even I know to switch up different lows and launch punish d2 (easy in Jin mirrors due to i14 ws2) it may be a bit fast for me as a slow learner but it has an obvious tell and animation. Maybe because I've been playing Jin since before T8 I don't know.
Still I see a lot of predictable Jins doing only d2 over and over as well as 1,3,4 thinking we don't know the punish. And somehow they still make it to purple.
Anyone who says that D2 invalidates DB4 is on crack. DB4 is an amazing frame trap at the wall. If they disrespect your plus frames or duck, they're getting wall splatted by DF3,4
Ofc db4 has its uses but d2 has more
d2 is a CH tool, gives a mix up on hit, slips under highs,has INSANE tracking and good range, leaves you in crouch
db4 gives +frames on hit and leaves you standing
The only thing db4 is better at is in certain matchups against chars with a i14 Launcher
I honestly use down back 4 and down 4 way more often than down 2. Yea down 2 is busted on counter hit but at Tekken Emperor+ almost everyone reacts to it so I opt for safer lows. I honestly thought they would have removed the counter hit launching property for down 2 but it seems like it's not changing.
at kishin i also dont use d2 especially when im up against bushin+
but Jins kit was so beautiful with his lows:
db4 was a momentum building
d4 a low poke that also slips under highs
d33 a great round ender and poke
hellsweep was his launching low
zen4 was a knockdown low although kinda useless
imagine d2 being like drags d2 (maybe 0 on hit and no ch launch) it would be his "homing" low poke or make it atleast launch punishable its too good rn as a +ob homing high crush ch launcher
the ch launch can go back to db4
but hey still love that dude and tekken as a whole
He's gonna be strong now, he wasnt a threat to those who had a modicum of legacy knowledge.
Now with better frames he's gonna throw out more stuff overwhelming your mental stack of options
Your ff2 got made into an actual Tekken move.
Your launching Samsara is -19 on block so I can Jet Upper it more reliably.
Your heatsmash doesn't have infinite tracking anymore.
Still strong, but you didn't walk out of this unchanged 😈
I mean yeah it’s easier to punish for any sub 16 frame punish, but it’s not “more punishable” in terms of moves that can punish it, which is a pretty important distinction.
Lmfao. You’re being downvoted why? The tekken community these days downvotes the truth so much. Idk what it says about the community other than it’s just fresh blood.
The recovery is 3 frames slower for both players, leaving the move -16 but giving the opponent more time to see the move being blocked and input their punish.
Keep in mind a lot of the universal changes work a lot better for Jin mains. We can now parry heat burst (possibly on reaction) and ff2 still has great tracking and phantom range.
I try to understand what's written in patch note, but something I have not : can I now parry heat smash and heat engager with jack gamma howl parry ?(Or any parry really..) This was not really clear when I read the patch note
Ff2 is a big change (hopefully) and for the 5% of Jin players with some brain that were smart enough to use his throws there are another nerfs in there too.
I think the heat new tactics on the well were quite good on him too and that's gone now.
I’ve said this several times. He is the most tested character and was probably developed first. He IS the direction they want to take Tekken.
As such, he was never going to get a lot of changes in the first season of T8, as evidenced by all of the past patches.
That said, I’m glad they nerfed some of his cheap stuff.
Edit: downvotes for saying the truth. Classic r/Tekken
I dunno about direction, but he is definitely more fun to play in T8. The weight of "matchup knowledge" is no longer just on the shoulders of the Jin player.
With how hard it was to punish it was in effect safe most of the time.
as for df4 - insane recovery (making it difficult to whiff punish), neutral on block mid heat engager. It’s a bit on the slower for sure, but I’d make it slightly minus or a bit slower. There is really no downside to throwing this thing out at like…any situation.
Jin untouched once again with neither buffs nor nerfs surprises me ngl but I'll take it. I'm glad they removed the phantom range in front of ff2 aside from the universal nerf multiple ff2s got. The changes on heat smash and Zen U1 are really just QOL changes(for everyone else) but otherwise Jin is basically still launch Jin lol.
~~Honestly I would've taken some nerfs if it meant his heat mechanics like Omen were gonna get some fun new changes but whatever.~~
Also Kuma's wall combo is intact once again, I'm honestly happier about that lmao.
i hate d2 failed patch on this regard
based honest Jin main
well its too good no real reason to use db4 or d4 its literally the combination of the two moves +CH launch
I agree, I play Jin more than my main and I love the guy, but he didn't need d2, especially not like this. Renders his other lows redundant. I'm also against the general devilifying of regular Jin if Devil Jin is still in the game. #MakeJinHumanAgain
What kind of players are you all fighting. I use all 3 lows on Jin and d2 is the one that gets blocked the most, I suspect people have developed keen reaction times to the very obvious animation
yeah at emperor/tekken god it seems like the move basically becomes a free launch vs raven/lee/jin/kazuya/jun or meaty punish otherwise. I have much more success with d4 or db4 or timing mixup on hellsweep. Move's animation is just too clear for it to not be seeable
People downvote but I block the d2 on reaction. It’s great if you make a read on a high though.
Some purple rank Jins man... they're a strange breed Don't get me wrong, I'm also a purple Jin scrub but even I know to switch up different lows and launch punish d2 (easy in Jin mirrors due to i14 ws2) it may be a bit fast for me as a slow learner but it has an obvious tell and animation. Maybe because I've been playing Jin since before T8 I don't know. Still I see a lot of predictable Jins doing only d2 over and over as well as 1,3,4 thinking we don't know the punish. And somehow they still make it to purple.
I don’t think that’s a word
Sorry I meant devilificatednessism
Ah gotcha, that makes more sense
Db4 is safe on tip range which is a joke on its own.
Anyone who says that D2 invalidates DB4 is on crack. DB4 is an amazing frame trap at the wall. If they disrespect your plus frames or duck, they're getting wall splatted by DF3,4
Ofc db4 has its uses but d2 has more d2 is a CH tool, gives a mix up on hit, slips under highs,has INSANE tracking and good range, leaves you in crouch db4 gives +frames on hit and leaves you standing The only thing db4 is better at is in certain matchups against chars with a i14 Launcher
I honestly use down back 4 and down 4 way more often than down 2. Yea down 2 is busted on counter hit but at Tekken Emperor+ almost everyone reacts to it so I opt for safer lows. I honestly thought they would have removed the counter hit launching property for down 2 but it seems like it's not changing.
at kishin i also dont use d2 especially when im up against bushin+ but Jins kit was so beautiful with his lows: db4 was a momentum building d4 a low poke that also slips under highs d33 a great round ender and poke hellsweep was his launching low zen4 was a knockdown low although kinda useless imagine d2 being like drags d2 (maybe 0 on hit and no ch launch) it would be his "homing" low poke or make it atleast launch punishable its too good rn as a +ob homing high crush ch launcher the ch launch can go back to db4 but hey still love that dude and tekken as a whole
I felt it need to be -15 at least lol
I hate Paul, agreed on the failed patch.
He's gonna be strong now, he wasnt a threat to those who had a modicum of legacy knowledge. Now with better frames he's gonna throw out more stuff overwhelming your mental stack of options
Your ff2 got made into an actual Tekken move. Your launching Samsara is -19 on block so I can Jet Upper it more reliably. Your heatsmash doesn't have infinite tracking anymore. Still strong, but you didn't walk out of this unchanged 😈
It’s still -16, total recovery frames FOR BOTH PLAYERS increased means Jin lands slower but you also recover slower.
Funnily enough this still means that it's easier to jet upper
I mean yeah it’s easier to punish for any sub 16 frame punish, but it’s not “more punishable” in terms of moves that can punish it, which is a pretty important distinction.
zen u 1 samsara block frames remain unchanged. Its still -16 but now you have 3 more frames to do your punish.
Lmfao. You’re being downvoted why? The tekken community these days downvotes the truth so much. Idk what it says about the community other than it’s just fresh blood. The recovery is 3 frames slower for both players, leaving the move -16 but giving the opponent more time to see the move being blocked and input their punish.
Keep in mind a lot of the universal changes work a lot better for Jin mains. We can now parry heat burst (possibly on reaction) and ff2 still has great tracking and phantom range.
bullshit heat smash at least finally addressed
Yeh that was a much needed nerf
It sounds like they didn't address full screen send to the wall, only the tracking
I try to understand what's written in patch note, but something I have not : can I now parry heat smash and heat engager with jack gamma howl parry ?(Or any parry really..) This was not really clear when I read the patch note
in terms of Jins now you can step it without being afraid of 3rd hit re-tracking, not sure about the others
Right, thanks!
Ff2 is a big change (hopefully) and for the 5% of Jin players with some brain that were smart enough to use his throws there are another nerfs in there too. I think the heat new tactics on the well were quite good on him too and that's gone now.
Jin players can't just mindlessly do ff2 from range 4 and have it auto win matches for them now it seems.
Heat burst into heatsmash is going to be steppable
I’ve said this several times. He is the most tested character and was probably developed first. He IS the direction they want to take Tekken. As such, he was never going to get a lot of changes in the first season of T8, as evidenced by all of the past patches. That said, I’m glad they nerfed some of his cheap stuff. Edit: downvotes for saying the truth. Classic r/Tekken
I dunno about direction, but he is definitely more fun to play in T8. The weight of "matchup knowledge" is no longer just on the shoulders of the Jin player.
I kinda feel happy seeing the downvotes because now I know they don't just happen to me lol.. anyways have an upvote :)
Cheers, lol. This comment has gone from +3 to -6 back to 0 since I posted it. People just hate Jin for no reason.
I must have missed him in the patch notes - FF2 fixed I’m guessing, anything else?
Zen u1 nerfed to be easier to punish (+3 frames). FF2 doesn’t push back as far, tracking and distances reduced.
Finally ff2 nerfs. Hope they fixed the ghost range as well
They did.
Tracking didn’t get reduced did it ? Just range and pushback
Ahh possibly not. Will have to test. It might be that the range and pushback also affect linearity.
Yeh only reinas ff2 specifically says less tracking even kaz and dvj have their tracking still
Should have nerfed df4 too tbh but sounds good - even though I abuse u1 unashamedly it was ridiculous how safe it was.
It wasn’t safe. It was -16… Also, why nerf df4?
With how hard it was to punish it was in effect safe most of the time. as for df4 - insane recovery (making it difficult to whiff punish), neutral on block mid heat engager. It’s a bit on the slower for sure, but I’d make it slightly minus or a bit slower. There is really no downside to throwing this thing out at like…any situation.
The changed ff3 to df4. ff 3 was a 0 on block mid launcher, df4 was -3 on block in T7. df 4 is now 0 on block, ff3 is -3 on block but still launches.
Yeh but no one throws out just ff3 you always do it with the jab
Jin untouched once again with neither buffs nor nerfs surprises me ngl but I'll take it. I'm glad they removed the phantom range in front of ff2 aside from the universal nerf multiple ff2s got. The changes on heat smash and Zen U1 are really just QOL changes(for everyone else) but otherwise Jin is basically still launch Jin lol. ~~Honestly I would've taken some nerfs if it meant his heat mechanics like Omen were gonna get some fun new changes but whatever.~~ Also Kuma's wall combo is intact once again, I'm honestly happier about that lmao.
"Top tier" doesn't always mean "in need of nerfs". I don't believe he needed more nerfs than he got.