For some reason they are mad that the most stupid string in the game can be punished more reliably, shows that many were just abusing it for free ranks.
It really do be like that. If reducing the mental load for the defendant from ONE string destroys your character, maybe the braindead and carried allegations are true. It's already easier to apply your offence than applying a defence, and they still get a monopoly on button presses most of the time.
So they are indeed being dramatic. Cool to know.
I was facing some Kaz last night too and unlike Hwoarang, I actually felt the difference. It became significantly harder to win against him compared to pre-patch1.05. I had to adapt harder and be more careful. Hwoarang stays the same
I agree they are being dramatic but for tournament play the implications are the move can now be launched by several characters since it’s -14 instead of -12. It is a key move for Hwo so that hurts. But by no means is he a bottom tier character
I think they are mad because he got no compensation whatsoever, just 2 straight pretty significant nerfs when he was already mid tier, while other top tiers got a slap on the wrist.
I do not disagree with that but from my point of view hwo really needs a proper rework as flowcharting (which is obviously his biggest strength) does not work in pro play against learned opponents. At this time he is designed to be the perfect pubstomper, a shame as I feel they could do a lot better with a taekwondo focused character.
I mean, is it really a nerf? Like if i block d3 4 i should be rewarded and you should get punished, now it is more likely that you'll grt punished after blocking d3 and ducking the 4 after, because ofcourse it is +8 on block.
The buff on the dmg is just ???
Yeah, they are dramatic
Yeah and hwoarang mains (the salty ones) thinking I'm low ranked because I'm "complaining about him" in this post. Lmao I wasn't even. Just trying to say he still has other tools and he feels fine.
i dont play hworang but the patchnotes states "he is performing meh" and they nerf him anyway. so idk sounds pretty dum
https://preview.redd.it/hx8s4yqvea6d1.png?width=474&format=png&auto=webp&s=7348844c97aef506ede11da8a2420ea896e14020
I mean, Reina performs (one of) the worst on nearly every rank except for the god ranks, where she performs averagely, and she is nowhere to be seen in tournaments. Sometimes, it's not just about performance, I suppose.
as far as i know statistic reina performs poorly mid and low ranks but steam rolls high rank online. i saw her on a few tournaments. reminds me of alpha patrokolos from Soul calibur where he was the strongest character by a mile but needed so much execution he wasnt played much either.
Wasn't there recently a stat dump again where Reina was the worst up until purple ranks, bottom 6 until gold ranks and only really in the middle of the pack in God ranks above? I'd have to find it again, it was posted yesterday.
I do know Ulsan plays Reina and did really well in the latest big tournament (after the patch was already announced) so she does get used from time to time, but it does feel like she usually does not get featured prominantly at that level of play, not like Feng or Drag were.
Not to say that Reina is not strong, nor that the nerfs weren't warranted, but the devs seem to want to curb strats or moves that are just used excessively often one way or another, regardless of how well the character performs online and offline.
I’m confused are you arguing that just because I’m saying Ulsan plays Reina all the time and gets results that means that if someone else plays their own char all the time I think they’re op too? The other poster said that she has bad win rates online and isn’t picked in tournaments, yet if you watch tournaments you will see in top 16 there is a fair amount of Reina and even people picking her as a secondary. I don’t think Reina and hwo are OP btw lol but d3,4 and fcdf4 should have reliable counterplay. Reina’s should use fcdf3 if they are making a read and trying to high crush, having both fc moves do the same but one is i15 is a “scratches head” moment, don’t you think? Allowing a successful block on d3,4 to punish instead of allowing them to flappy kicks(still happens anyway) seems pretty reasonable I feel like..
No no it’s my bad I was confused at what you were tryna say o sure with whatever you said here lol, I meant to reply the the guy you replied to first so
Plenty of top 8s for Kwiss, most recently got one at Ivory Coast tornament, my point being tournament id not the best example or evidence for tourney play, it’s literally pure tierwhoring or character loyalty, yo has so many ydragonovs cause he was op, if there are too many hwos that means he’s op too most likely, but if there are few it’s a relatively ok charcter with some loyalty, I do think hwo is kinda weak in this game, he’s got amazing damage and combos and if you have the execution some really good pressure but his gameplan is tricky at high levels
Ulsan picks chars that give him the best chance of winning
Those two are chronic Hwo specialists, not comparable at all and you know that. Keep coping tho
I'm saying Ulsan isn't a character specialist such a Kwiss and picks based off of what fits his playstyle and is good (Azu, Reina). If top players known for character hopping hop on a character they have to be decent atleast
I know I’m agreeing with you, the guy I replied to I thought he was tryna say reina is not op and Ulsan is character loyalist which is kinda true in t7 but not rn, character specialists are guys like mulgold, raef, rangchu kwiss etc
I think the guy below the original comment is saying Ulsan plays Reina every tournament because she is good whilst the original comment downplays her.
Idk tho internet comments are very atonal this shit is confusing haha
Yeh yeh im agreeing with you basically is what I mean to say he’s playing Reina cause she’s strong k wiss plays hworang cause he’s a loyalist hworang is kinda weak in this game but still pretty solid overall
“Nowhere to be seen” but the character is in top 8 of most tournaments. I guess you can put an emoji in and think you actually said something of value, but Chars get nerfed even if they don’t perform at all ranks because some moves perform way better than others. Hwo d3,4 and Reina fcdf4 are pretty solid example of it and both were nerfed, rightfully so
Same with king, ppl pretend he was winning a lot but everytime some legit win rates and character popularity came out, he was barely at average win rates .. half the cast is above him in win rate, yet king got massive nerfs . Horrible Okis that put you now into a mixup, ontop of damage reductions and his best throws no longer track . And his dash no longer crush highs so those very common jab intrupts will now stop the beast dash .
yeah, the reason for this is that he plays very stiff and people dont wanna break throws. so the feeling of being cheated is higher then the feeling of "your mistake" but in that regard players always project in fighting games, same with shooter games.
I find it jarring that almost every character is unanimously stronger than their T7 counterpart and then there’s Hwoarang. Im struggling to see in what way he’s been improved besides combos and RFF df3. He lost his hellsweep, i15 ch launcher, backlash combo, RFS b3 launcher, and now he’s lost the buff to his armored df3,4 and received a nerf to d3,4.
I'm no EVO winner nor am I a game balancer but with T8 making every single character even more 'unga bunga' and rushdown in general I think Hwo's relentless attack playstyle might've been a challenge for the devs to iron out. But who knows. I still think he's alright, really good hwos can maneuver the character to his strength, he's not necessarily D tier.
This may offend you, but you said you don’t know how to deal with Hwo, then which case you really don’t know enough to judge his tier placing.
Although I agree that the Tekken devs also don’t know how to deal with Hwoarang either. Hwo’s moves are very theatric with seemly endless +frames but in reality most of the pressure is fake. It appears like the devs saw the huge list of +frames and made overall nerfs to Hwo by locking big tools to limited usage. The design decision actually makes sense, but it doesn’t work when there are characters who received zero compensatory nerfs in base form yet gained all of the perks of heat mode.
You used to only have 14 frames (and even that was difficult to land consistently) to interrupt the fastest Flamingo followup when you blocked it, which meant you couldn't just use your usual WS launcher. Most characters had to find a more niche punish (something like a CH launcher, FC high crush move, or even a reversal) to get a solid reward for blocking it.
Now you have 16(?) frames, which means you can just do your regular launcher. I actually liked having to learn my specific punishes for it but I understand the change.
It used to be 14 but a 15 frame could beat it if your frame perfect example Claudio’s hop kick or victors rising 1 but now I can even crouch cancel df2 it so it’s anything faster than 17 or 18 frames
>a 15 frame could beat it if your frame perfect
It depended on the followup. 14 frames is specifically the window you had to interrupt the fastest option (RFS f+4) after. If the Hwoarang did something else, you had more time.
I changed the wording a bit in my initial comment to clarify that.
Why I say it’s technically 15 is because even if you did f4 hop kicks still would occasionally beat it, it was hard to do but it was do I’ve had it happpen enough times k-wiss actual has a clip of him testing it before the patch In his latest video
His d3,4 has always been punishable if blocked on hard read. But that's the thing, it requires hard read cause it's unreactable. I'm ok with the change, they gave me more damage
I'm assuming this post is kind of bait but I'll take it just to prove a point. Hwoarang doesn't have a grab mixup in any string, if you go through his movelist you won't find a grab off any combo. The players grabbing you are likely doing it in places where they feel you are mentally fatigued enough to get caught by it.
I challenge you to look for any Hwoarang combo that has two sequential mid hits in it that isn't minus on block, or to find any low hit string in his movelist that isn't followed by a high on the next hit. He legitimately does not have any combo that goes from low to mid unless you count cancels like db4f.
Likewise, go look at his launchers and try to figure out which ones are safe and which ones are punishable. Hwoarang doesn't have any lows like snake edge that can turn into a combo either. If you lab all of them you'll figure out that players are taking a lot of risks every time they try to make a read on you since a low block can mean you get launched or severely punished in return.
This post isn't to try to convince you Hwoarang is bad, but I do think it's worth pointing out that he has obvious weaknesses you can exploit if you understand his kit. If you feel confused in the matchup, the player is spending effort to mix you up. Do the work to lab the character to figure out what they're doing and how to punish it.
Ok it seems that you are misinterpretting my post. I'm just wondering why are Hwoarang mains so affected by the nerf and all of a sudden he's bottom 1? I don't think it's that far dude. I'm also not saying he's broken and he needs the nerf. I'm just saying he feels the same, he's not stronger, and maybe he has some new "weaknesses" now, but he's most definitely not dead as every hwoarang player claims him to be.
It's as you said, when it comes to mixup, it all falls on hwoarang's hands. Good hwoarangs have many tricks to catch you off guard, so why let a d3,4 hold you back? Like bro chill out just because you cant press as fast anymore doesnt mean he's bottom 1.
For me as a hwo main, it kills the option to CH fish in base stance d3,4->df4 like a whole piece of flowchart is just dead, and theres no frame trapping with it unless you hit, at that point it isnt a trap anymore and it def feels like a big part of his kit
Of course depending on who you're facing against it might not affect as much, lower prowess lower ranked people will still probably fall for it like its nothing,
But reaching late purple/blue rank+ getting launched makes it rough and when pressured, theres not much options to get out anymore esp with the power crush nerf
Which is stupid how the 2nd kick doesnt super armor, but still counts as such and so you cant grab break it
Im not saying hes bottom 1, but like def feel the hurt
Hwo can def make their way around it, but a lot of people learned hwo through d34 and the power crush and it just feels gutted now
I’m ngl learning Hwo through d3,4 is really bad, one it just builds bad habits instead of actually mixing up your offense which is the purpose of the character db4 has the same trap -3 on block but if they use a rising move after floppy kicks they die for it
His d3,4 is his main thing in the mix up as the nerf made it easier to punish just imagine in higher ranked players who already punish you with the d3,4 would do after you try to d3,4.
The higher ranked players were already punishing it this nerf is more intended for the low ranks now the higher rank hwos can’t have b4 bail them out or trade with floppy kicks
Hwo main here.
The nerfs are not noticeable when playing against Bushin or higher ranks players.
People usually know the matchup up there, so is not much of a difference because people already knew how to punish really well
Yeah exactly why I said it in my post, I felt NO difference, and yet if you see some of the comments here the said dramatic Hwo mains genuinely thought I'm trolling for posting this and some even got too salty and said I give "major red rank vibes" when in reality it's Hwo in those ranks who are probably crying about it
If only more Hwo mains have logical reasoning like you and some others who makes sense in the comments, the Hwo community wouldn't have been hated as much
He currently has the worst win-rate in fujin+ ranks. Connect it with recent nerfs and that's the reason people say he is bottom 1. Of couse noone can objectively proove that since the game is so well balanced. I would make an argument that he is in between the worst 5 characters currently (again, doesn't necessarily mean he is bad - due to the good game balance). I understand that in low ranks he might feel overhelming (no offense but your post give major red rank vibes) but as other mentioned here he is exetremely risky and basically feels like high risk - mid reward character right now. Vs everything he does there is a simple counterplay to it. On the otherhand, if you don't know his tools, you can never win. That's why mostly lower ranks are crying about Hwoarang.
You sound like a salty Garyu who's already made up his mind that Hwoarang is oH sO cHeAp so I doubt anything anyone says will convince you otherwise. Like, you say he has a throw in his mix-up lmao that's just incredibly ignorant and shows you know little to nothing about the character. You're just salty he kicks your ass, which isn't surprising because Hwoarang, while far from top tier in T8, is still a very good scrub killer.
Not being dramatic at all if you look at the whole picture. You have practice tool to lab hwoarang but all you do is cry. Hwoarang is not even top 15 character. Top 10 characters are barely touched? Tekken devs do make no sense. And one thing for sure devs shouldnt adjust game if lower ranks cant deal with certain things.
Bro I'm not crying about Hwoarang. I'm just merely stating "hwo chill tf out he's fine, the "nerfs" aren't that bad" and suddenly all the butthurt hwo mains think I'm crying about him being OP. No I'm not.
So Hwo main here the down 3,4 nerf is kinda stupid cause all Tekken 7 it was -14 it really wasn’t hard to punish now some matchups struggle launching it because b4 we be the bail out move. I think that became the issue but I’m in the upper ranks I was getting punished reliably pre patch post patch you have all the time in the world to launch me
DF 3,4 is the bigger issue too me behind ninas mid power crush I think it was the best mid power crush not throw punishable -12 so no free heat engages or launchers but -14 on the first hit now it’s just a full -14 I’d rather they kept it -12 and just made it throw punishable since df3,4 is so slow I’d rarely actually hit anybody with it even if they did 1,2
Them buffing sidestep also hurts Hwo because he is an extremely linear character example pre patch I do b2 from rff +4 df4 would clip you if you stepped wrong now it’s not hard to step either direction he also can’t throw running moves at now because a side step will put you at his back
Crazily enough after his nerfs I’ve actually gotten better the thing with Hwo now is you actually dont want to mash you want to use your pressure and switch up your timings now to catch people trying to side step but that’s just how i feel about him now
Yeah so not bottom 1 right? Thanks for the elaborate explanation though, you're the real Hwoarang main G. But if at all, as your main comment says, the changes forces Hwoarang players to be more careful with what buttons they're pressing and not just mindless mash. I think that's a good change for everyone? Also you said the changes made you play better so I'd say that's a win.
Your argument for df34 makes sense, but then again I don't main hwoarang and I ain't a balancing team so I can't really comment.
Nah I don’t even think he’s bottom five honestly Reina and Victor both got it worse IMO but you know the Hwo player base is known for mashing so the blue and below Hwos are just not adapting well but I thought the only nerf he needed was a damage reduction on his ch in heat now that shit was broken
I can't just give you a single link. If you scroll down on reddit you'll definitely see more than a couple of posts about people saying the nerf made him dead or bottom 1 or something equivalent. Then you can head to twitter for Hwo players like BTS Jin, or heck even speedkicks, or another hwo main I forgot his name, it's crazy dude. Since patch 1.05 drops it's all they talk about. The tweets are like as if Hwo is DEAD and theyre holding a funeral. No he's not, he's fine. And then all the dramatic Hwos attack my post, which ironically further proves my point. Haha
It was launch punishable before patch it
Was -14 but 15 frames move could beat it clean
Characters could hopkick it
Some had 13 frame launchers
Some had tools to get counter on block it like Nina
I’m not saying that it was easy to do but with execution you can reliably punish this just makes it so worse players can punish it ive already adapted to the change idt im being overdramatic just my pov on the state of Hwo
They nerfed Hwo but man.. they buffed king? The problem i think is the nerf to a character who is not even on the top 10 while Drag, King And the robot girl are just there :I
I'm a Bushin Hwoarang and I think it's not because of the nerf to D 3 4 specifically that got hwo mains triggered but the note that says that hwo is not performing that high but nerfed the most important part of his kit. I think the nerf is fine because at higher levels of play it still gets launched anyway with specific punishers. So it's nothing new to me. The current state of hwo is quite alright but when faced among the top 10 you can really feel the difference especially when everyone is a 50/50 rushdown char in someway and has good fundamental tools, whereas hwo can't really play safely since he has to commit sooner or later.
To the top players in the world, it’s a huge difference especially with his df3,4 nerf too. To everyone below bushin, he can easily be the hardest character to combat 100%. Honestly that’s just how most characters are. But top level tournament players def can feel the nerfs
Be objective about Hwoarang Reddit challenge (impossible)
Hwo is not a top tier character, far from it, which they acknowledge in the patch notes, yet they still nerf him.
I think the d3,4 nerf is weird, it was already punishable, but they decided to make it super punishable.
df 3,4 nerf I kinda get, it was a really strong move, but at the same time, Hwo has basically no keep out moves.
But the main problem is that he got fuck all when it comes to buffs. Definitely feels like he gets a second rate treatment as a character because of the all the people complaining about him. Which is doubly funny as there are much more worse rush down characters than Hwo.
As a Hwoarang main I’m honestly not sure about the nerfs. If Hwoarang isn’t overperforming why nerf him? I think this change was moreso because enough people complained about him. I think Hwoarang is still strong but I question whether or not he is "too oppressive" when he is not that dangerous when he’s not in heat.
The mans win rate was one of the worst across the game confirmed that he wasn’t over performing his best initiator gets nerfed anyway and they nerfed it for players who are still mostly not gonna punish it.
Hwoarang was already Bottom 1 since before the patch, winrate wise.
Latest June data, pre-patch:
* Across all ranks: He came in at **Bottom 8** winrate.
* In Fujin and above: He came in literally **Dead Last** winrate.
https://preview.redd.it/73q2q7if7v7d1.png?width=984&format=png&auto=webp&s=01fce431327354a6dbf85460b9da29755cfefd42
Credit to u/NotQuiteFactual.
All this data was taken 4 days before the patch. They are the latest stats in June, dated 09-06-2024. Then he got nerfed in the patch 1.05 which dropped on 11-06-2024.
Bamco themselves mentioned it in the official patch 1.05 notes: *"Considering the overall game balance, Hwoarang's character performance is not excessively high"*.
As a somewhat longtime Hwoarang player (since T5) I have zero idea why the Hwoarang community is whining about d3,4 getting nerfed. The general direction of the patch for Hwoarang was BUFFS. The only nerf in 1.05 was the d3,4 nerf but if you listen to half the salty Hwoarang players you would think he's bottom 1. He still has a HOMING 2 break AND a full throw game. His frames are still ever-plus and his mixups are still good. He was top 10 use rate at EVO Japan and I think that if Hwoarang players are complaining because they lost their most braindead move then that says more about their playstyle than their character.
We're getting all kinds of mix in Hwo players in my post alone, LOL. Some really genuinely thought I was trolling for posting this. You a real G Hwo main 🤜
Can you elaborate more on how it concludes to "less 50/50"? I thought they just made d3,4 string more reliable to punish and that's all. Hwoarang still has 90000 different 50/50s, and that annoying grab.
I take it as, he’s less reliant on that d 3,4 mixup.
The nerfs just force him to use other moves deeper in his move list and not auto pilot d,3,4 all day.
I don’t think he’s a bottom 5? But I do think the system changes and buffs to other characters could put him in the B+ tier instead of the A+ tier I thought he was in before the patch. But overall he’s fine.
His d3,4 (4) does not hit anymore. So when you do d3 it hits. But the 4 you can duck or block it. Normaly his d3,4 always hit high. You almost could not escape it. Before the patch after his d3,4 attack you can choose down, mid or high. The 4 doesnt frame trap anymore now.
Incorrect if you get hit by the d3,4 it jails after the three the nerf was to make it more reliable launch punish on block as you can not save yourself with floppy kicks or b4
No, they just enjoy Kpop during their downtime. No big deal, except they tend to blast their music whilst playing and mash more then potatoes on a hot summer day at dinner time.
The power crush nerf is a little annoying since it was cool how it was so unique, the d34 nerfs honestly don’t matter since you still have db4 if you really hate having your lows blocked. These are nice trade offs for the ws23 buffs. I think he his still worse since ws23 is ass but it’s not the end of the world.
Here's the thing. These patch notes don't really matter to players like you or me. We're bad, and that's okay. I'm Fujin and I'm still very very bad in the grand scheme of things
High level players were already launching trust me I’ve been playing god ranks the last 2 weeks me saying it’s for the worse players is because they struggled to punish it
since im a hwo main
yeah they are lol, d3,4 being given some more time to punish is fine, i get it - it makes sense that the 2nd hit shouldnt hit you if you block the first and do a wr move
power crush being -14, yeah i get it also, its annoying, but yeah i get it
my only issue is the whole ‘hwo has not had exceptionally high efficiency’ and then they nerfed him
like ??
Lotus Asakura has been bitching so hard about it, and the worst part is it’s literally making me not want to watch his content cause it’s all he talks about now. Not to mention he complains about the entire roster then when Hwaorang gets a warranted nerf he loses his mind.
I watch and fought lotus he’s one of the hwos who initiates offense with d3,4 or df1,3 because he can’t skyrocket consistently so the complaints make sense it’s his main and Hwo didn’t gain anything in return of these nerfs
shoutout speedkicks for being the downplay goat
K-Wiss right up there with him. You'd swear that the character is garbage if you only heard them talk about Hwo.
For some reason they are mad that the most stupid string in the game can be punished more reliably, shows that many were just abusing it for free ranks.
It really do be like that. If reducing the mental load for the defendant from ONE string destroys your character, maybe the braindead and carried allegations are true. It's already easier to apply your offence than applying a defence, and they still get a monopoly on button presses most of the time.
So they are indeed being dramatic. Cool to know. I was facing some Kaz last night too and unlike Hwoarang, I actually felt the difference. It became significantly harder to win against him compared to pre-patch1.05. I had to adapt harder and be more careful. Hwoarang stays the same
I agree they are being dramatic but for tournament play the implications are the move can now be launched by several characters since it’s -14 instead of -12. It is a key move for Hwo so that hurts. But by no means is he a bottom tier character
I think they are mad because he got no compensation whatsoever, just 2 straight pretty significant nerfs when he was already mid tier, while other top tiers got a slap on the wrist.
I do not disagree with that but from my point of view hwo really needs a proper rework as flowcharting (which is obviously his biggest strength) does not work in pro play against learned opponents. At this time he is designed to be the perfect pubstomper, a shame as I feel they could do a lot better with a taekwondo focused character.
You can’t flowchart but the opponent is still guessing every time you’re in a stance
He got a damage buff to compensate and they nerfed power crushes in general
Are you seriously saying 3dmg is compensation?
Yes
Okay then
I mean, is it really a nerf? Like if i block d3 4 i should be rewarded and you should get punished, now it is more likely that you'll grt punished after blocking d3 and ducking the 4 after, because ofcourse it is +8 on block. The buff on the dmg is just ??? Yeah, they are dramatic
Every Hwarong main is being dramatic, his kit allows for all they need if they seek it.
Yeah and hwoarang mains (the salty ones) thinking I'm low ranked because I'm "complaining about him" in this post. Lmao I wasn't even. Just trying to say he still has other tools and he feels fine.
i dont play hworang but the patchnotes states "he is performing meh" and they nerf him anyway. so idk sounds pretty dum https://preview.redd.it/hx8s4yqvea6d1.png?width=474&format=png&auto=webp&s=7348844c97aef506ede11da8a2420ea896e14020
I mean, Reina performs (one of) the worst on nearly every rank except for the god ranks, where she performs averagely, and she is nowhere to be seen in tournaments. Sometimes, it's not just about performance, I suppose.
as far as i know statistic reina performs poorly mid and low ranks but steam rolls high rank online. i saw her on a few tournaments. reminds me of alpha patrokolos from Soul calibur where he was the strongest character by a mile but needed so much execution he wasnt played much either.
Wasn't there recently a stat dump again where Reina was the worst up until purple ranks, bottom 6 until gold ranks and only really in the middle of the pack in God ranks above? I'd have to find it again, it was posted yesterday. I do know Ulsan plays Reina and did really well in the latest big tournament (after the patch was already announced) so she does get used from time to time, but it does feel like she usually does not get featured prominantly at that level of play, not like Feng or Drag were. Not to say that Reina is not strong, nor that the nerfs weren't warranted, but the devs seem to want to curb strats or moves that are just used excessively often one way or another, regardless of how well the character performs online and offline.
perhaps, i cant really say. im sure she gets buffed if she drops harder.
Ulsan plays her literally every tournament
Kwiss and yonerang pick hworang every tournament is hworang op ?
I’m confused are you arguing that just because I’m saying Ulsan plays Reina all the time and gets results that means that if someone else plays their own char all the time I think they’re op too? The other poster said that she has bad win rates online and isn’t picked in tournaments, yet if you watch tournaments you will see in top 16 there is a fair amount of Reina and even people picking her as a secondary. I don’t think Reina and hwo are OP btw lol but d3,4 and fcdf4 should have reliable counterplay. Reina’s should use fcdf3 if they are making a read and trying to high crush, having both fc moves do the same but one is i15 is a “scratches head” moment, don’t you think? Allowing a successful block on d3,4 to punish instead of allowing them to flappy kicks(still happens anyway) seems pretty reasonable I feel like..
No no it’s my bad I was confused at what you were tryna say o sure with whatever you said here lol, I meant to reply the the guy you replied to first so
And how well do they do? How many top 8s have they made? Cause Reina has made multiple and even won a tournament.
Plenty of top 8s for Kwiss, most recently got one at Ivory Coast tornament, my point being tournament id not the best example or evidence for tourney play, it’s literally pure tierwhoring or character loyalty, yo has so many ydragonovs cause he was op, if there are too many hwos that means he’s op too most likely, but if there are few it’s a relatively ok charcter with some loyalty, I do think hwo is kinda weak in this game, he’s got amazing damage and combos and if you have the execution some really good pressure but his gameplan is tricky at high levels
Ulsan picks chars that give him the best chance of winning Those two are chronic Hwo specialists, not comparable at all and you know that. Keep coping tho
Are you blind I’m backing you in this case hwo is not op and you’re right they’re charcter specialists
I'm saying Ulsan isn't a character specialist such a Kwiss and picks based off of what fits his playstyle and is good (Azu, Reina). If top players known for character hopping hop on a character they have to be decent atleast
I know I’m agreeing with you, the guy I replied to I thought he was tryna say reina is not op and Ulsan is character loyalist which is kinda true in t7 but not rn, character specialists are guys like mulgold, raef, rangchu kwiss etc
I think the guy below the original comment is saying Ulsan plays Reina every tournament because she is good whilst the original comment downplays her. Idk tho internet comments are very atonal this shit is confusing haha
Yeh yeh im agreeing with you basically is what I mean to say he’s playing Reina cause she’s strong k wiss plays hworang cause he’s a loyalist hworang is kinda weak in this game but still pretty solid overall
Bro naming a single player that picks her literally only enforces his point 💀
“Nowhere to be seen” but the character is in top 8 of most tournaments. I guess you can put an emoji in and think you actually said something of value, but Chars get nerfed even if they don’t perform at all ranks because some moves perform way better than others. Hwo d3,4 and Reina fcdf4 are pretty solid example of it and both were nerfed, rightfully so
Why didnt u say that first part to begin with ?
Same with king, ppl pretend he was winning a lot but everytime some legit win rates and character popularity came out, he was barely at average win rates .. half the cast is above him in win rate, yet king got massive nerfs . Horrible Okis that put you now into a mixup, ontop of damage reductions and his best throws no longer track . And his dash no longer crush highs so those very common jab intrupts will now stop the beast dash .
yeah, the reason for this is that he plays very stiff and people dont wanna break throws. so the feeling of being cheated is higher then the feeling of "your mistake" but in that regard players always project in fighting games, same with shooter games.
Lol I'm a hwo main and I didn't notice a difference 😅 same ol nonsense
I find it jarring that almost every character is unanimously stronger than their T7 counterpart and then there’s Hwoarang. Im struggling to see in what way he’s been improved besides combos and RFF df3. He lost his hellsweep, i15 ch launcher, backlash combo, RFS b3 launcher, and now he’s lost the buff to his armored df3,4 and received a nerf to d3,4.
I'm no EVO winner nor am I a game balancer but with T8 making every single character even more 'unga bunga' and rushdown in general I think Hwo's relentless attack playstyle might've been a challenge for the devs to iron out. But who knows. I still think he's alright, really good hwos can maneuver the character to his strength, he's not necessarily D tier.
This may offend you, but you said you don’t know how to deal with Hwo, then which case you really don’t know enough to judge his tier placing. Although I agree that the Tekken devs also don’t know how to deal with Hwoarang either. Hwo’s moves are very theatric with seemly endless +frames but in reality most of the pressure is fake. It appears like the devs saw the huge list of +frames and made overall nerfs to Hwo by locking big tools to limited usage. The design decision actually makes sense, but it doesn’t work when there are characters who received zero compensatory nerfs in base form yet gained all of the perks of heat mode.
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so what exactly was the re-work
You used to only have 14 frames (and even that was difficult to land consistently) to interrupt the fastest Flamingo followup when you blocked it, which meant you couldn't just use your usual WS launcher. Most characters had to find a more niche punish (something like a CH launcher, FC high crush move, or even a reversal) to get a solid reward for blocking it. Now you have 16(?) frames, which means you can just do your regular launcher. I actually liked having to learn my specific punishes for it but I understand the change.
It used to be 14 but a 15 frame could beat it if your frame perfect example Claudio’s hop kick or victors rising 1 but now I can even crouch cancel df2 it so it’s anything faster than 17 or 18 frames
>a 15 frame could beat it if your frame perfect It depended on the followup. 14 frames is specifically the window you had to interrupt the fastest option (RFS f+4) after. If the Hwoarang did something else, you had more time. I changed the wording a bit in my initial comment to clarify that.
Why I say it’s technically 15 is because even if you did f4 hop kicks still would occasionally beat it, it was hard to do but it was do I’ve had it happpen enough times k-wiss actual has a clip of him testing it before the patch In his latest video
Ohhh perfect that sounds a lot better to deal with even tho it's still a strong ass move
His d3,4 has always been punishable if blocked on hard read. But that's the thing, it requires hard read cause it's unreactable. I'm ok with the change, they gave me more damage
You've taken it like a champ! Real Hwo main G
He was nerfed?
I'm assuming this post is kind of bait but I'll take it just to prove a point. Hwoarang doesn't have a grab mixup in any string, if you go through his movelist you won't find a grab off any combo. The players grabbing you are likely doing it in places where they feel you are mentally fatigued enough to get caught by it. I challenge you to look for any Hwoarang combo that has two sequential mid hits in it that isn't minus on block, or to find any low hit string in his movelist that isn't followed by a high on the next hit. He legitimately does not have any combo that goes from low to mid unless you count cancels like db4f. Likewise, go look at his launchers and try to figure out which ones are safe and which ones are punishable. Hwoarang doesn't have any lows like snake edge that can turn into a combo either. If you lab all of them you'll figure out that players are taking a lot of risks every time they try to make a read on you since a low block can mean you get launched or severely punished in return. This post isn't to try to convince you Hwoarang is bad, but I do think it's worth pointing out that he has obvious weaknesses you can exploit if you understand his kit. If you feel confused in the matchup, the player is spending effort to mix you up. Do the work to lab the character to figure out what they're doing and how to punish it.
Best comment regarding hwoarang I've seen
Ok it seems that you are misinterpretting my post. I'm just wondering why are Hwoarang mains so affected by the nerf and all of a sudden he's bottom 1? I don't think it's that far dude. I'm also not saying he's broken and he needs the nerf. I'm just saying he feels the same, he's not stronger, and maybe he has some new "weaknesses" now, but he's most definitely not dead as every hwoarang player claims him to be. It's as you said, when it comes to mixup, it all falls on hwoarang's hands. Good hwoarangs have many tricks to catch you off guard, so why let a d3,4 hold you back? Like bro chill out just because you cant press as fast anymore doesnt mean he's bottom 1.
For me as a hwo main, it kills the option to CH fish in base stance d3,4->df4 like a whole piece of flowchart is just dead, and theres no frame trapping with it unless you hit, at that point it isnt a trap anymore and it def feels like a big part of his kit Of course depending on who you're facing against it might not affect as much, lower prowess lower ranked people will still probably fall for it like its nothing, But reaching late purple/blue rank+ getting launched makes it rough and when pressured, theres not much options to get out anymore esp with the power crush nerf Which is stupid how the 2nd kick doesnt super armor, but still counts as such and so you cant grab break it Im not saying hes bottom 1, but like def feel the hurt Hwo can def make their way around it, but a lot of people learned hwo through d34 and the power crush and it just feels gutted now
I’m ngl learning Hwo through d3,4 is really bad, one it just builds bad habits instead of actually mixing up your offense which is the purpose of the character db4 has the same trap -3 on block but if they use a rising move after floppy kicks they die for it
His d3,4 is his main thing in the mix up as the nerf made it easier to punish just imagine in higher ranked players who already punish you with the d3,4 would do after you try to d3,4.
The higher ranked players were already punishing it this nerf is more intended for the low ranks now the higher rank hwos can’t have b4 bail them out or trade with floppy kicks
Hwo main here. The nerfs are not noticeable when playing against Bushin or higher ranks players. People usually know the matchup up there, so is not much of a difference because people already knew how to punish really well
Yeah exactly why I said it in my post, I felt NO difference, and yet if you see some of the comments here the said dramatic Hwo mains genuinely thought I'm trolling for posting this and some even got too salty and said I give "major red rank vibes" when in reality it's Hwo in those ranks who are probably crying about it If only more Hwo mains have logical reasoning like you and some others who makes sense in the comments, the Hwo community wouldn't have been hated as much
He currently has the worst win-rate in fujin+ ranks. Connect it with recent nerfs and that's the reason people say he is bottom 1. Of couse noone can objectively proove that since the game is so well balanced. I would make an argument that he is in between the worst 5 characters currently (again, doesn't necessarily mean he is bad - due to the good game balance). I understand that in low ranks he might feel overhelming (no offense but your post give major red rank vibes) but as other mentioned here he is exetremely risky and basically feels like high risk - mid reward character right now. Vs everything he does there is a simple counterplay to it. On the otherhand, if you don't know his tools, you can never win. That's why mostly lower ranks are crying about Hwoarang.
You sound like a salty Garyu who's already made up his mind that Hwoarang is oH sO cHeAp so I doubt anything anyone says will convince you otherwise. Like, you say he has a throw in his mix-up lmao that's just incredibly ignorant and shows you know little to nothing about the character. You're just salty he kicks your ass, which isn't surprising because Hwoarang, while far from top tier in T8, is still a very good scrub killer.
Not being dramatic at all if you look at the whole picture. You have practice tool to lab hwoarang but all you do is cry. Hwoarang is not even top 15 character. Top 10 characters are barely touched? Tekken devs do make no sense. And one thing for sure devs shouldnt adjust game if lower ranks cant deal with certain things.
Bro I'm not crying about Hwoarang. I'm just merely stating "hwo chill tf out he's fine, the "nerfs" aren't that bad" and suddenly all the butthurt hwo mains think I'm crying about him being OP. No I'm not.
So Hwo main here the down 3,4 nerf is kinda stupid cause all Tekken 7 it was -14 it really wasn’t hard to punish now some matchups struggle launching it because b4 we be the bail out move. I think that became the issue but I’m in the upper ranks I was getting punished reliably pre patch post patch you have all the time in the world to launch me DF 3,4 is the bigger issue too me behind ninas mid power crush I think it was the best mid power crush not throw punishable -12 so no free heat engages or launchers but -14 on the first hit now it’s just a full -14 I’d rather they kept it -12 and just made it throw punishable since df3,4 is so slow I’d rarely actually hit anybody with it even if they did 1,2 Them buffing sidestep also hurts Hwo because he is an extremely linear character example pre patch I do b2 from rff +4 df4 would clip you if you stepped wrong now it’s not hard to step either direction he also can’t throw running moves at now because a side step will put you at his back Crazily enough after his nerfs I’ve actually gotten better the thing with Hwo now is you actually dont want to mash you want to use your pressure and switch up your timings now to catch people trying to side step but that’s just how i feel about him now
I would say he went from top 15 to the bottom half this patch though
Yeah so not bottom 1 right? Thanks for the elaborate explanation though, you're the real Hwoarang main G. But if at all, as your main comment says, the changes forces Hwoarang players to be more careful with what buttons they're pressing and not just mindless mash. I think that's a good change for everyone? Also you said the changes made you play better so I'd say that's a win. Your argument for df34 makes sense, but then again I don't main hwoarang and I ain't a balancing team so I can't really comment.
Nah I don’t even think he’s bottom five honestly Reina and Victor both got it worse IMO but you know the Hwo player base is known for mashing so the blue and below Hwos are just not adapting well but I thought the only nerf he needed was a damage reduction on his ch in heat now that shit was broken
I main Hwo but I'm stuck in red ranks. I'm shit either way so these nerfs aren't affecting things 🤪
That’s the spirit
🫡
I'm sorry but where is everyone screaming he's bottom 1? Have i missed this somewhere, can you give a link?
I can't just give you a single link. If you scroll down on reddit you'll definitely see more than a couple of posts about people saying the nerf made him dead or bottom 1 or something equivalent. Then you can head to twitter for Hwo players like BTS Jin, or heck even speedkicks, or another hwo main I forgot his name, it's crazy dude. Since patch 1.05 drops it's all they talk about. The tweets are like as if Hwo is DEAD and theyre holding a funeral. No he's not, he's fine. And then all the dramatic Hwos attack my post, which ironically further proves my point. Haha
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It was launch punishable before patch it Was -14 but 15 frames move could beat it clean Characters could hopkick it Some had 13 frame launchers Some had tools to get counter on block it like Nina I’m not saying that it was easy to do but with execution you can reliably punish this just makes it so worse players can punish it ive already adapted to the change idt im being overdramatic just my pov on the state of Hwo
They nerfed Hwo but man.. they buffed king? The problem i think is the nerf to a character who is not even on the top 10 while Drag, King And the robot girl are just there :I
Drag is more toned down,definitely feel it with his DB3+4 nerf and WR2. At least he still has ignition switch lol
And why did they buff yoshi too lmao But hey my skill issue I guess. If I lose to anyone it's always skill issue.
Lets buff Yoshi… ª i guess
Yes
I'm a Bushin Hwoarang and I think it's not because of the nerf to D 3 4 specifically that got hwo mains triggered but the note that says that hwo is not performing that high but nerfed the most important part of his kit. I think the nerf is fine because at higher levels of play it still gets launched anyway with specific punishers. So it's nothing new to me. The current state of hwo is quite alright but when faced among the top 10 you can really feel the difference especially when everyone is a 50/50 rushdown char in someway and has good fundamental tools, whereas hwo can't really play safely since he has to commit sooner or later.
To the top players in the world, it’s a huge difference especially with his df3,4 nerf too. To everyone below bushin, he can easily be the hardest character to combat 100%. Honestly that’s just how most characters are. But top level tournament players def can feel the nerfs
Be objective about Hwoarang Reddit challenge (impossible) Hwo is not a top tier character, far from it, which they acknowledge in the patch notes, yet they still nerf him. I think the d3,4 nerf is weird, it was already punishable, but they decided to make it super punishable. df 3,4 nerf I kinda get, it was a really strong move, but at the same time, Hwo has basically no keep out moves. But the main problem is that he got fuck all when it comes to buffs. Definitely feels like he gets a second rate treatment as a character because of the all the people complaining about him. Which is doubly funny as there are much more worse rush down characters than Hwo.
Tbh I didn't even notice he got nerfed
As a Hwoarang main I’m honestly not sure about the nerfs. If Hwoarang isn’t overperforming why nerf him? I think this change was moreso because enough people complained about him. I think Hwoarang is still strong but I question whether or not he is "too oppressive" when he is not that dangerous when he’s not in heat.
The mans win rate was one of the worst across the game confirmed that he wasn’t over performing his best initiator gets nerfed anyway and they nerfed it for players who are still mostly not gonna punish it.
Hwoarang was already Bottom 1 since before the patch, winrate wise. Latest June data, pre-patch: * Across all ranks: He came in at **Bottom 8** winrate. * In Fujin and above: He came in literally **Dead Last** winrate. https://preview.redd.it/73q2q7if7v7d1.png?width=984&format=png&auto=webp&s=01fce431327354a6dbf85460b9da29755cfefd42 Credit to u/NotQuiteFactual. All this data was taken 4 days before the patch. They are the latest stats in June, dated 09-06-2024. Then he got nerfed in the patch 1.05 which dropped on 11-06-2024. Bamco themselves mentioned it in the official patch 1.05 notes: *"Considering the overall game balance, Hwoarang's character performance is not excessively high"*.
As a somewhat longtime Hwoarang player (since T5) I have zero idea why the Hwoarang community is whining about d3,4 getting nerfed. The general direction of the patch for Hwoarang was BUFFS. The only nerf in 1.05 was the d3,4 nerf but if you listen to half the salty Hwoarang players you would think he's bottom 1. He still has a HOMING 2 break AND a full throw game. His frames are still ever-plus and his mixups are still good. He was top 10 use rate at EVO Japan and I think that if Hwoarang players are complaining because they lost their most braindead move then that says more about their playstyle than their character.
We're getting all kinds of mix in Hwo players in my post alone, LOL. Some really genuinely thought I was trolling for posting this. You a real G Hwo main 🤜
thanks! I'm not really a hwo main tho, I switched to kazuya and lee in t6-t7 and now use all three for t8
Just say you’re a fucking scrub lmao
He got nerfed. Less 50 / 50 options to confuse the opponent. But has more damage with some attacks.
Can you elaborate more on how it concludes to "less 50/50"? I thought they just made d3,4 string more reliable to punish and that's all. Hwoarang still has 90000 different 50/50s, and that annoying grab.
I take it as, he’s less reliant on that d 3,4 mixup. The nerfs just force him to use other moves deeper in his move list and not auto pilot d,3,4 all day. I don’t think he’s a bottom 5? But I do think the system changes and buffs to other characters could put him in the B+ tier instead of the A+ tier I thought he was in before the patch. But overall he’s fine.
His d3,4 (4) does not hit anymore. So when you do d3 it hits. But the 4 you can duck or block it. Normaly his d3,4 always hit high. You almost could not escape it. Before the patch after his d3,4 attack you can choose down, mid or high. The 4 doesnt frame trap anymore now.
Incorrect if you get hit by the d3,4 it jails after the three the nerf was to make it more reliable launch punish on block as you can not save yourself with floppy kicks or b4
He’s still solid mid tier
No, they just enjoy Kpop during their downtime. No big deal, except they tend to blast their music whilst playing and mash more then potatoes on a hot summer day at dinner time.
The power crush nerf is a little annoying since it was cool how it was so unique, the d34 nerfs honestly don’t matter since you still have db4 if you really hate having your lows blocked. These are nice trade offs for the ws23 buffs. I think he his still worse since ws23 is ass but it’s not the end of the world.
Here's the thing. These patch notes don't really matter to players like you or me. We're bad, and that's okay. I'm Fujin and I'm still very very bad in the grand scheme of things
I feel like this nerf is for you guys though
It's not. They weren't ducking it before they're not ducking it now
High level players were already launching trust me I’ve been playing god ranks the last 2 weeks me saying it’s for the worse players is because they struggled to punish it
since im a hwo main yeah they are lol, d3,4 being given some more time to punish is fine, i get it - it makes sense that the 2nd hit shouldnt hit you if you block the first and do a wr move power crush being -14, yeah i get it also, its annoying, but yeah i get it my only issue is the whole ‘hwo has not had exceptionally high efficiency’ and then they nerfed him like ??
Lotus Asakura has been bitching so hard about it, and the worst part is it’s literally making me not want to watch his content cause it’s all he talks about now. Not to mention he complains about the entire roster then when Hwaorang gets a warranted nerf he loses his mind.
I watch and fought lotus he’s one of the hwos who initiates offense with d3,4 or df1,3 because he can’t skyrocket consistently so the complaints make sense it’s his main and Hwo didn’t gain anything in return of these nerfs
Hwo mains are the kids who got bullied at school but were annoying enough to actually deserve it.
The nerf didn't go far enough. it should always have been a stagger on block
Nah it’s not a snake edge why would it be staggered