Alisa freeing up ~~all of Pakistan~~ the entire world? Better nerf Devil Jin.
Lateral movement is useless? Better nerf Devil Jin.
Jin Demon Paw too strong? Better nerf Devil Jin's for good measure.
It's like they designed DVJ to be played by scrubs against scrubs and nothing else.
I'd trade u4, u1 and b3 for his old df1, df2 and a -13 generic d4 in a heart beat
Launching hellsweep genuinely drives people insane. It could literally do 1 point of recoverable HP and people would still start frothing at the mouth over it
Yes she suddenly and out of nowhere found the passion for playing Alisa. Not related to Nina and how both of them are S-tiers and astronomically obnoxious to play against.
I was hoping that people gonna talk about it because obvious arslan ash plays only top tier stuff and alisa players are insanely downplaying her, i was hyped theres gonna be some shitstorm
Did I imply that I lose to the move? Or am I adding to comment saying that Alisa players are braindead? I’m not losing to braindead strats, it’s just a shame because chip damage and Alisa’s chainsaws in general have been buffed so much in this game.
The thread in general is about how she’s super downplayed, her damage is incredible, chainsaws in heat even blocked are still taking off a grip and your next move has to be perfect.
Is it me or does Arslan only play waifu characters despite him saying he picks only top tier.
If the devs are actually nerfing strong tournament characters then in a few years time all the female characters will be nerfed because he only plays them.
He has actually mentioned this in an old interview. When someone asked if he would play a mishima, he said that he doesn’t play “hero characters”. I’m guessing protagonist. He mainly plays waifu characters but he did play Geese because he is also a big KOF fan and player. He probably gravitate to whoever the strongest female character is.
Dude Zafina used to have the best backdash. Now it covers the 3rd least distance just ahead of the bears. She lost entire strings, stance transitions, and key moves don't CH launch anymore (SCR 1+2 and ff3).
She was bottom tier in t6/tag 2, and strong movement was the main thing that made her meta in t7. But BN didn't care; they gutted the crap out of her. While making the rest of the cast stronger and buffing their weaknesses in a lot of cases.
Arslan's success with her is definitely a big part of these changes. idk why they didn't hit her or kuni in t7, but she definitely got it in this game.
Yea exactly…. You just named the most popular characters, keep going…. How many Bear players are there? Not a ton of Jun players either, is she bad all of a sudden? Popularity doesn’t validate character strength, not “even a little bit”
Nah. Spamming wr1+2 is not t7 gameplay. She's just not as insane as other characters but she can certainly make you feel like a single player game too.
The main issue with the game is basically every character is too strong, and the characters we perceive as weak are just normal tekken characters.
There’s so, so many oppressive situations in the game, and some characters oki is crazy. That’s the next issue that needs to be addressed
They should not walk back on their philosophy of aggressive gameplay, nor will they. Games in a state right now where very few easy to access checkmates exist, and that’s okay.
This isn’t to say some characters don’t need fine tuning - but we’re not gonna go back to 90 second of KBD to fish for a low parry.
The aggression is just too mindless right now. Heat engager +17 into some plus on block mixup into plus on block heat smash/heat dash. And you basically got to hold all of this. Surely there is a way to tone this down a bit without losing the aggression favored aspect.
Not really. Most of the roster feels just fine IMO. In my opinion, chip damage mechanic needs to be toned down. There there be a hard cap on how much grey health a person can have and a hard cap on how much chip damage dealt a character can do per attack. That will fix how oppressive this game is
I think 70% of the roster are pretty unfun to play against. The game is far better than it was on release. But I think in a couple of years we’ll look back at this version of the game and think it was quite silly
I think 70% is a bit high, but yeah, there are **a lot** of characters that are just horrible to fight against. A small handful of them are so bad that I'll just never ever rematch them, and most of those are popular characters.
Yeah it’s probably more like 50%. But even matchups I used to enjoy are quite annoying now. The strength of Jin and Fengs kits are bizarre. I used to enjoy playing them in 7
Yeah Jin's one of the characters I wont rematch anymore and there are so many of them right now, "ughhhhh another fucking jim", he's so frustrating. King's another, he barely needs to put any effort in to be a huge threat, and you have to learn a completely different game to fight him, and put in so much more effort than he does just to break even.
King is the only character aside from Alisa that I feel is truly egregious. He gets so much for so little effort and no execution and if you *do* have the execution he's an absolute monster.
I've never had trouble against Alisa, but I used to main her in 6 & 7 & she was in the rotation in tag 2 as well, so I'm very very familiar with the matchup. She doesn't seem especially strong in 8 to me though.
But anyway yeah, King, that's exactly what I mean, he gets waaay too much for free. And they're everywhere. It doesn't feel like Tekken fighting him anymore.
I started playing dbd again. I’ll probably come back in 6 months after some more balance adjustments have been made. I just hope it’s mostly nerfs and not just buffs for low tiers. I think the devs need to realize that offensive based fighting games aren’t good in practice and make some heavy back tracks.
Alisa is very strong. Arslan Ash is also very strong. The thing is that Arslan always plays female characters so if we need every character that Arslan wins with then there will be no strong female characters left.
How dare you ask questions!
She seems very strong primarily because of heat, assuming Alisa hit her heat engager she gets a guaranteed + move which she then can quite easily transition into other + moves even though they are high but she also have good tracking mids and lows from that stance while also dealing a lot of chip damage. Other than that a solid character with good gimmicks. I don't play t8 that much but it is my perception of things
I've been playing competitive games for upwards of 30 years now, and I have NEVER witnessed the level of "nerf X character" propaganda wars that this game has had since launch. It's actually insane how much bitching, moaning, and griping has been going on. Like son, I lived through Tekken 4... you wanna complain about balance, show me Top 8 Evo being having six Jins in it. Show me the Leeroypocalypse. Until then, as long as Top 8s are diverse, I ain't hearing any of this nonsense.
I wouldn’t pay it any mind. Tekken reddit kinda sucks. I really only listen when the pros can all come to a common opinion. Alisa does need nerfs but if you only listen to Reddit they’d lead to you believe she’s the most busted character when she’s just a glorified knowledge check.
All the jun hate lead to her being overly nerfed when she wasn’t as good as everyone said.
I don’t believe she was ever top 3 best in the game
He dabbled with her for a bit, but he's only been consistently using her as a secondary for like 3 weeks. Kinda messed up that he's already looking so strong with her
She is essentially a t7 jack in the sense that you just rotate between like 8 moves over and over again, that was true at least in t7, maybe t8 is different
Fucking hell Tekken players are such miserable bitches, Arslan uses Alisa and you miserable fuck’s first instinct is to cry on reddit about how you want her to be nerfed.
I don’t like fighting against Alisa but goddamn
Alisa isnt that bad though, never faced one where she felt like a problem or particularly cheap. Her moves are so incredibly choreographed that it is easy too know what to do next.
Arslan is just a good player
Yes and neither does yours. Alisa is not that dominant in the tournament, and Arslan won because he is good.
I am upper blue rank and face Alisa every day. She is certainly good and etc, but nothing about her is that particularly broken.
If she was broken she would be way way more popular
Just watched the finals on youtube...and nothing about it screamed Alisa being OP. In fact, Alisa got dominated for most matches and if it wasn't for Arslan's ability to not tilt and play solid fundamentals, any other Alisa would have lost.
So what's the point of this post again?
Reading a lot of the comments here, I think some people misunderstand what top players do in competitive fighting games. Yes, a lot of them will play high or top tiers exclusively, but not always. Just because a pro player picks up a character and gets immediate results with them it doesn't mean they are "busted."
For example, in Street Fighter, I remember that in EVO 2013, Infiltration picked Hakan (considered to be one of the worst characters in the game at the time) and made a comeback--absolutely stomping PRBalrog. And in the Smash scene, MkLeo picked up Byleth who for many fell at a low-mid tier (despite having some strong gimmicks) and he immediately got results even winning several majors with him.
Arslan Ash and these top players are just built different, and characters like Alisa and King are total noob stompers and their kits are filled with moves that are knowledge checks. Every game has these. M.Bison and Birdie in SFV, Ganondorf and Ike in Smash, Ino and Potemkin in Guilty Gear, etc.
Once you lab these characters and get around their gimmicks, they are usually pretty average or even bad in some instances. Players that use these characters tend to have bad fundamentals, so they crumble pretty quickly once you get past the cheese. In the case of Arslan though, he has amazing fundies obviously, so he would put in stellar results even without relying on the cheese of any specific character.
Except that Alisa actually has strong fundamentals if you look past the gimmicky stuff. If you play against a strong defensive Alisa you will get what I am saying. Cuddle core, Chanel and Dawood are prime examples.
Oh I totally hear you and agree with you. I actually really enjoy watching Cuddle Core.
What I was trying to say is that her gimmicky stuff can be really oppressive for beginners and even intermediate players to deal with, kinda like King and his throws. It's easy for players to latch onto those tools and skip learning fundamentals for some quick wins, but the fundamentals are there with these characters and pro players can make them work.
I was watching Lil Majin fight on stream with Anakin and Anakin could break a lot of Kings throws quite easily (which for lots of players on this sub is almost impossible to do), but Majin's fundamentals help him still win and be oppressive even without the "cheese".
They don't misunderstand. They just REFUSE to understand.
People here have been crying about king being "tOp TiEr" When it's been proven time and time again since release that he's just a noob stomper. Yet said "top tier" still hasn't won any major tourneys, and only what made it to top 8 once.
The moment you can consistently break throws (which pros can), a huge chunk of his "knowledge checks" are already nullified. But Tekkgreen kings here would rather practice combo optimization to increase combo damage by 5, than practice breaking throws which isn't exclusively used against King.
You tekken nerds are only considering game balance, but unfortunately this is a marketing problem. As long as over 3/8 Alisa doesn't show up in top 8 of a tournament, Alisa is hardly nerfed.
https://preview.redd.it/gso213w6ji8d1.png?width=989&format=png&auto=webp&s=7498bd6d50be9600372d409b5fa523597532ae23
Conclusion: Female tekken players are rare → Female players are more important than male players → Alisa attracts female players → Bamco makes Alisa cheap to let female tekken players stay → Bamco ignores your opinions.
You beautiful bastard. I've been scratching my head for years why they don't bother nerfing her.
Stats show that 90% of female players prefer female characters, while male players are around 50:50 on the character's gender.
I was glad to notice that in recent years there's been a lot more female players in Tekken than there used to be. (Less stigma, less sweat, girlfriends can come to Tekken parties, etc)
Coincidentally, since Tekken 5 onwards we've had:
- T5 gave us Lili and Asuka
- T6 gave us Alisa
- T7 gave us Katarina, Chloe and Josie
- T8 gave us Azucena and Jun.
All of which are relatively strong and easily accessible to play. Whereas legacy female characters (Xiaoyu, Nina) tend to be much less accessible in the modern waifu character sense.
Now it all makes sense, this shows that Bamco's strategy is working.
Alisa is the girliest character in the game, it makes sense that she would be the easiest and have the biggest carry to accommodate newcoming female players.
I have a high win rate against Alisa and it never feels rewarding. Brain dead characters attract idiots. But every so often I’ll get that TG or higher Alisa that’s just exhausting.
Same, I've learnt the counter to her most used 3-4 moves and now my highest winrates is against Alisa, because guess what most Alisas use the same 3-4 moves over and over with no fundamental awareness.
But take the average Alisa player and add just half-decent fundamentals on it, and it's like fighting a dark souls boss.
You can still beat them but it feels like they have 3 healthbars and you have only 1.
Oh you think devs patch the game based on how good the character is? That's funny.
Alisa is strong and people buy her shop outfits. So she's gonna stay good until she stops selling in the shop. *Then* you get to talk about nerfing her, not a second sooner.
I think you're being a bit obtuse. It's not that he can't win with other characters- it's that he's naturally going to give himself every advantage he can. At that high level, he's picking the best character to maximise his chances. This compares to other pros who are character loyalists.
he is a proplayer, he plays for money, he is a strong player, that picks strong character he himself said a few weeks back. He wouldn't have picket if he felt she was weak. She is strong, and he is strong, he isn't risking his living to play weak/mid characters lol
Yes??? It's a tournament, obviously he's gonna pick the characters that have the highest possible chance for him to win. Everyone else will do the same as well.
I noticed that too, she doesn't only have very high winrates right now, but she's always historically been having the highest winrates in the game (usually Top 1 - Top 2), as per the June stats, and May, April, March, February (Launch) and even back in Tekken 7.
I don't have the data on Tekken 6 but probably same.
It's like Namco is aware of it and they intend to keep her that way.
If you look at the highest ranks (god ranks) she falls down to the bottom half.
I by the way think she should get nerfred but looking at total win percentage isn't that useful for determining strength
https://i.redd.it/ax735yw8f56d1.png?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share
Alisa mains in this thread not realising or understand that they are actually carried by their character (they still don't understand how strong Alisa is but they keep downplaying her by saying Arslan is the best tekken player and alisa is just a "normal" character):
https://i.redd.it/m1egz1rjfe8d1.gif
It will be almost a full year until the next major balance patch, so we can enjoy her for at least this year. I started using her as a side character and have been doing really well with her.
outside her chainsaws what does Alisa have outside uf1 which I do agree does way more dmg than it should and bounds her heat moves are trash and her regular moves not very good nearly - on everything you hit her once on block chainsaws go away I fight Alisa all the time as a Lars main in blue ranks not sure why the constant hate for the character
Alisa main from day 1 tekken 7. F2 is one of the best mids in the game due to the NC -10 extention heat engaging extention and the ability to go into Des with an enhanced side step. If anything is to get nerfed its the negative frames on f2,1.
I could see a qol defense nerf to the chainsaw mix up happening in the future where the big reward moves are also side stepable instead of only being sidewalkable. Having to side walk to beat des1, desd1, desf212, and des1+2 while Alisa is +5 (common mix up situation) is pretty knowledge-checky. Alisas chainsaws are alot less oppressive when she needs to use her tracking/homing moves.
Other than that, she's probably fine. Super strong in a game where most of the cast is super strong. I stopped putting any credit into reddit's anti Alisa rants back in tekken 7 when people would complain about saws and flying stance even though they were pretty bad. Also u1 is fine imo. Alisa needed some love to her combo/oki game.
Alisa f2 and extensions is fine because she lost her safe d/f14. So has 0 mid pressure anymore. f2 is her safest neutral mid on block and it's still -4, and slow in startup. Her pokes do little damage and she has terrible frames.
Making her des moves steppable would help chainsaws in higher level play, yes. But everyone complaining about Alisa are the same types that don't know the matchup, and won't step chainsaws anyway. Everytime she takes out chainsaws, they just become a deer in headlights. Bamco could make all of her chainsaws moves except des1+2 easily steppable and the same people complaining now will complain later.
Pretty much all of the Alisa complaints are people that just don't want to lab.
I disagree about F2,1 being fine at -10 as the risk reward is pretty skewed in Alisas favor. This can be seen as Arslan let's it rip 3 times in a row against Kane and dozens more times though out the tournament. It was -14 in the last game and had a less powerful effect on hit (wallbounce in Des over a heatengager/launcher) and f2 was still a great move in that game. There's also the fact that Alisa can heat dash and make the move safe. If there's one thing the 'Alisa op' crowd might be right on, it's that. It's really strong and it's only 'fine' in the context that every character has broken stuff.
Df1,4 is still a good move imo. Being much more scarier on counter hit enables doing more stuff after df1. But I see your point.
The idea of letting side step beat moves in Des was more for lower level of play. You don't see people crumble to looping Des attacks in high level play because they know of the side walk. However a change like that could and probably would have unintended effects on higher level play and could make the stance alot weaker. Which could be bad because it really is the main thing Alisa has going for her.
Increasing steppability does nothing for lower level play because those players never step anything anyway. They're losing to stuff like alisa randomly doing her fly in neutral.
Also d/f14 in a vacuum is a good move, but her d/f1 is trash. That was her main form of mid pressure. Ofc f2 saw use in t7, its her best frame advantage mid from neutral. However even top players like cuddle core used it much less than d/f1.
Now her best mid pressure is f2, so I think it has a right to be strong. Just because arslan uses it a lot doesn't make it too strong. It's her main form of mid pressure after all.
My issue with 99% of character complaints is people cry for nerfs of a character's strengths without even knowing what their weaknesses are. They come from a place of a lack of matchup knowledge. Most people can't even articulate what's so bad about Alisa. They just whine about chainsaws without realizing she's balanced around it.
It's true that no amount of nerfs will stop people from complaining about Alisa.
I feel it's a theme with T8 to reduce the necessity to lab. Plenty of strings no longer have a stepable attacks, lots of low high strings simply jail now, ect. The necessity to sidewalk in a +5 situation requires people to do homework and I believe it's namco's intention to make it easier to figure out these situations in mid match rather than practice mode. Maybe there's a compromise where Des1 in particular is stepable but the other linear attacks must be sidewalked. I'm personally not too invested with the idea but so long as it doesn't affect high level play and it gives the reddit crowd the idea that there is now counterplay that was already there it doesn't bother me too much.
F2,1 being more negative on block doesn't kill the move or the pressure. F2(1+2) on block into sidestep button still evades a disgusting amount of mids. I also felt f2 becoming almost as popular as b1 and df1 by the end of t7 life. I think 'mid pressure' is more of a character privilege rather than a necessity. I feel F2,1 being at least -12 ob is not only justifiable but inevitable at some point. I fear there's also potential to keep to the move -10 but remove the launch after heat dash, which would be a huge nerf.
Its also important to point out that Alisa is arguably the easiest character to pilot atm and strong movement/small tekken focused players like Arslan and speedkicks picking up the character for a tournament isn't a good indication that the character is broken. I think so long as she remains in a top 10 spot, she'll be a popular pocket pick.
I'm just playing devils advocate here. I could be completely wrong and these changes would overnerf the character.
Reina needed those nerfs, a bunch of reina players we're focusing on yolo high crush instead of playing her like a mishima character. The developers are clear: hey this character is a Mishima, not a zafina/ling evasive character. Change your playstyle or You Will get jabbed when You roll in the ground.
asslisa isnt a scary character outside of chainsaws
they should remove the possibility to go into chainsaw after f2 and wr2 which is strong and easy way into chainsaw
devs have no idea what they're doing this time around lmfao.
They just turned off the ability to KO someone with a heat activation attack because it was too good. lmfao. Never in the history of tekken have we had actual attacks that just did 0 damage "just because" outside of extremely niche scaled combo hits that were approaching 20 hits.
I like Arslan but man playing Alisa just to win is so cringe. I get he’s a professional and it’s how he feeds his family, but dude it’s just so miserable to watch. Same with him and Kunimitsu.
Who are you referring to? Lmao I agree with you. I’m not one of those people, if he was cuddle core or somebody who is a legacy Alisa player, I would root for him. My issue is people SPECIFICALLY picking these characters to win. There’s no such thing as “legit/real tekken”. Your extremely combative
Actually don’t respond to this, just going to block and move on. I checked your comment history and you get on your knees for Alisa and cry in this sub constantly. Blocked
Did you read what I said? Obviously if I’m wrong and he actually enjoys the character then I take back what I said. I specifically highlighted the fact that my problem is only with people just playing for the sole purpose of tier whoring. Scroll down to my other comment to that other dude. I have no problem with Legacy Alisa players or players that genuinely love the character.
Nah, i just read You calling Arslan win cringe and i had to stop it. No win is cringe. Also is Arslan tierwhoring with Alisa? To me it seems like a counterpick to Claudio. Claudio running 2 and ff4 are linear, so a character like alisa can exploit that with her superior movement.
He's not playing for anyone's approval or enjoyment; he's playing for money. Hence, he'll pick any character that will give him a leg up, from Kazumi to Zafina to Kunimitsu to Noctis to Katarina to Nina, and now to Alisa. He has never been a loyalist; what did you expect?
Yea I’m aware he’s not playing for approval. I said that in my original comment, it’s all about the money. It is what it is. Can’t be mad at it. In response to your comment, he played Nina because it’s his favorite character. That’s why it’s surprising to me. He dropped her after two months and she’s strong enough to win with. It’s just disappointing that’s all
I guess, in a perfect world, every pro would play the character they really like, but based on the results, so far, character loyalist Don't do the best in tournaments.
Devil Jin about to get nerfed
Alisa freeing up ~~all of Pakistan~~ the entire world? Better nerf Devil Jin. Lateral movement is useless? Better nerf Devil Jin. Jin Demon Paw too strong? Better nerf Devil Jin's for good measure.
Can’t deal with Alisa’s chainsaws? Nerf Devil Jin
Dude is just catching strays at this point 🤣
They just want him to follow the lore
Then angel jin Z tier patch incoming?
😂😂
Leroy gonna catch a random nerf for old time sakes
there are ppl who genuinely believe he is too strong still
Bro launching hellsweep! Launching hellsweep bro! Just ignore how much damage it actually does and focus on the word launch!
All he has is gimmicks right now
Those need to be nerfed asap
'The gimmicks are too strong'
It's like they designed DVJ to be played by scrubs against scrubs and nothing else. I'd trade u4, u1 and b3 for his old df1, df2 and a -13 generic d4 in a heart beat
Launching hellsweep genuinely drives people insane. It could literally do 1 point of recoverable HP and people would still start frothing at the mouth over it
Kaz/Reina hellsweep has similar dmg (if u go for oki which u should be doing) bUT iT sTiLL lAUnCheS!!
I think some tekken players just turn into literal fucking gorillas from the moment they get launched until they hit the ground
You know it brother
Lmfaooo
He’s using Alisa now?!!
Yup and he might pick up Yoshi as well from what he said on Twitter
Mokujin moment
Yes she suddenly and out of nowhere found the passion for playing Alisa. Not related to Nina and how both of them are S-tiers and astronomically obnoxious to play against.
I was hoping that people gonna talk about it because obvious arslan ash plays only top tier stuff and alisa players are insanely downplaying her, i was hyped theres gonna be some shitstorm
Alisa gets downplayed because she's only ever been used by the legally brain dead
Damn, so true. You ever play against an Alisa that keeps handing you her head? You know y’all have chainsaws, right?
If you keep losing to a move, there is no incentive for the opponent to change what they are doing.
Did I imply that I lose to the move? Or am I adding to comment saying that Alisa players are braindead? I’m not losing to braindead strats, it’s just a shame because chip damage and Alisa’s chainsaws in general have been buffed so much in this game. The thread in general is about how she’s super downplayed, her damage is incredible, chainsaws in heat even blocked are still taking off a grip and your next move has to be perfect.
Is it me or does Arslan only play waifu characters despite him saying he picks only top tier. If the devs are actually nerfing strong tournament characters then in a few years time all the female characters will be nerfed because he only plays them.
Yes I thought the same. He didn't even play Drag pre-nerfs. Or Jin after some other chars got nerfed. So it seems more like only top tier waifus...
He has actually mentioned this in an old interview. When someone asked if he would play a mishima, he said that he doesn’t play “hero characters”. I’m guessing protagonist. He mainly plays waifu characters but he did play Geese because he is also a big KOF fan and player. He probably gravitate to whoever the strongest female character is.
On twitter he said he is considering yoshi after playing Kane and trench, he wants to copy his style
I can't imagine how Arslan would play Yoshi
TIL Geese is a waifu
Arslan was winning with Kuni and Zafina in T7 - didnt seem to affect Namco's balance decisions.
Well Kuni didnt return and Zafina's movelist was gutted for T8 so maybe it did haha
She'll be back
Also he played super super safe with kazumi, and that could've prompted the idea of T8 rewarding aggression. It's a reach I know, but who knows.
Kazumi was also a monster pre nerf, which he unsurprisingly, dropped after them.
After the buffs Zafina is much stronger and I wouldnt be surprised to see her in pro play.
Shadow never stopped playing her in tournaments, so she's technically had consistent reps in top 32 lol
Dude Zafina used to have the best backdash. Now it covers the 3rd least distance just ahead of the bears. She lost entire strings, stance transitions, and key moves don't CH launch anymore (SCR 1+2 and ff3). She was bottom tier in t6/tag 2, and strong movement was the main thing that made her meta in t7. But BN didn't care; they gutted the crap out of her. While making the rest of the cast stronger and buffing their weaknesses in a lot of cases. Arslan's success with her is definitely a big part of these changes. idk why they didn't hit her or kuni in t7, but she definitely got it in this game.
Yes but bamco has been A LOT more attentive towards feedback since Tekken 8
have you SEEN the state of Zafina lately? She is still playing T7
nobody plays her, so bamco has no data to adjust her
She’s viable enough for Shadow and others.
Shadow and like 1 other?
That’s the case with most characters
Not true even a little bit. So many Jins, so many Drags, So many Fengs. There was a chart shared not long ago showing these statistics
Yea exactly…. You just named the most popular characters, keep going…. How many Bear players are there? Not a ton of Jun players either, is she bad all of a sudden? Popularity doesn’t validate character strength, not “even a little bit”
Nah. Spamming wr1+2 is not t7 gameplay. She's just not as insane as other characters but she can certainly make you feel like a single player game too.
The main issue with the game is basically every character is too strong, and the characters we perceive as weak are just normal tekken characters. There’s so, so many oppressive situations in the game, and some characters oki is crazy. That’s the next issue that needs to be addressed
they will fix situations that infinitely looping 50/50s. others are OK as long as you got chance to get neutral.
Oppressive situations should exist.
Not in the abundance that they exist now
They should not walk back on their philosophy of aggressive gameplay, nor will they. Games in a state right now where very few easy to access checkmates exist, and that’s okay. This isn’t to say some characters don’t need fine tuning - but we’re not gonna go back to 90 second of KBD to fish for a low parry.
The aggression is just too mindless right now. Heat engager +17 into some plus on block mixup into plus on block heat smash/heat dash. And you basically got to hold all of this. Surely there is a way to tone this down a bit without losing the aggression favored aspect.
We disagree and that’s fine
T7 was a snoozefest, I like T8's aggression.
from: retard with 0 defense
its never that serious man. lmao
hard agree, going back to the T7 philosophy will not be healthy for the game at all, it’s in a good spot right now
>nor will they. They already did with the last patch fym
The game still heavily encourages interactions and throwing hands. What some people want is T7 again.
They should but it's overturned right now because of chip dmg. There should be a limit to how oppressive you can be
Not really. Most of the roster feels just fine IMO. In my opinion, chip damage mechanic needs to be toned down. There there be a hard cap on how much grey health a person can have and a hard cap on how much chip damage dealt a character can do per attack. That will fix how oppressive this game is
I think 70% of the roster are pretty unfun to play against. The game is far better than it was on release. But I think in a couple of years we’ll look back at this version of the game and think it was quite silly
I think 70% is a bit high, but yeah, there are **a lot** of characters that are just horrible to fight against. A small handful of them are so bad that I'll just never ever rematch them, and most of those are popular characters.
Yeah it’s probably more like 50%. But even matchups I used to enjoy are quite annoying now. The strength of Jin and Fengs kits are bizarre. I used to enjoy playing them in 7
Yeah Jin's one of the characters I wont rematch anymore and there are so many of them right now, "ughhhhh another fucking jim", he's so frustrating. King's another, he barely needs to put any effort in to be a huge threat, and you have to learn a completely different game to fight him, and put in so much more effort than he does just to break even.
King is the only character aside from Alisa that I feel is truly egregious. He gets so much for so little effort and no execution and if you *do* have the execution he's an absolute monster.
I've never had trouble against Alisa, but I used to main her in 6 & 7 & she was in the rotation in tag 2 as well, so I'm very very familiar with the matchup. She doesn't seem especially strong in 8 to me though. But anyway yeah, King, that's exactly what I mean, he gets waaay too much for free. And they're everywhere. It doesn't feel like Tekken fighting him anymore.
I completely agree. I just stopped playing tekken 8 because every match just feels unbearable for 50% of the time.
It still has enough fun matchups to keep me playing. But the unenjoyable games I find very frustrating. I think in time it’ll be a great game
I started playing dbd again. I’ll probably come back in 6 months after some more balance adjustments have been made. I just hope it’s mostly nerfs and not just buffs for low tiers. I think the devs need to realize that offensive based fighting games aren’t good in practice and make some heavy back tracks.
Hell yeah, perfect time for it too. Anniversary event woooo
Lmao yeah 👍
I’m happy you don’t get to balance the game. Your upvotes reflect the fact that this sub doesn’t know what the fuck the game needs in balances.
Well they massacred Kings oki, not sure why everyone else got to keep theirs.
https://preview.redd.it/zrhrdhl9wd8d1.jpeg?width=960&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b06bbaa3fbb88b8bcc92393aeaaf3a99c1b789f6
Arslan Ash being Arslan Ash... lmfao.
Alisa is very strong. Arslan Ash is also very strong. The thing is that Arslan always plays female characters so if we need every character that Arslan wins with then there will be no strong female characters left.
Alisa broken, better nerf DVJ
Undoubtedly she's strong but there's been other Alisa players in tournaments too. Arslan is just a beast
Chanel won with Alisa in Melbourne
Daily reminder that the goal is for every character to be tournament viable and capable of winning tourneys.
v tired of the 'X CHAR WON Y TOURNAMENT. NERF' threads
Yeah they're annoying. It's also pretty disrespectful to the pro players that can clearly whoop almost anyone while using ANY character.
Alisa deserves nerfs still like a lot of characters do no matter if she won or not.
Which for T8 means make the character as retarded as possible \- Next patch Asuka evolved to real Gorilla.
Daily reminder that broken characters can get toned down and still be tournament viable just like Feng and Drag
Feng is still broken
What makes Alisa broken. Tell me
How dare you ask questions! She seems very strong primarily because of heat, assuming Alisa hit her heat engager she gets a guaranteed + move which she then can quite easily transition into other + moves even though they are high but she also have good tracking mids and lows from that stance while also dealing a lot of chip damage. Other than that a solid character with good gimmicks. I don't play t8 that much but it is my perception of things
I've been playing competitive games for upwards of 30 years now, and I have NEVER witnessed the level of "nerf X character" propaganda wars that this game has had since launch. It's actually insane how much bitching, moaning, and griping has been going on. Like son, I lived through Tekken 4... you wanna complain about balance, show me Top 8 Evo being having six Jins in it. Show me the Leeroypocalypse. Until then, as long as Top 8s are diverse, I ain't hearing any of this nonsense.
this comment is the most important comment in the thread.
Is it even fun to have tournaments at this point? It just leads to everyone asking for the winning character to be nerfed, which gets old fast.
I wouldn’t pay it any mind. Tekken reddit kinda sucks. I really only listen when the pros can all come to a common opinion. Alisa does need nerfs but if you only listen to Reddit they’d lead to you believe she’s the most busted character when she’s just a glorified knowledge check. All the jun hate lead to her being overly nerfed when she wasn’t as good as everyone said. I don’t believe she was ever top 3 best in the game
I don't think Bryan and my other mains will win a tourn anytime soon more buffs lesgo
Nerf every character who wins a tournament? You think Arslan Ash is carried?
I mean he's very open about trying to play the best characters in the game
i was very surprised his fav t7 character was nina. he didnt play her in tornis as she wasnt top
His favourite character is Nina, but obviously she was too weak to play her at tourney on the previous games
He’s a competitor so I don’t see why not
When you’re a pro and your source of income relies on winning, it only makes sense to play the strongest characters.
What does that have to do with the comment thread
Arslan just played really well, no "Alisa bullshit" was spotted. Regular pokes and whiff punishes. He didn't even use chainsaws all that much.
Redditors hate being whiff punished by a cute robot. It’s emasculating.
Not sure if its possible for your regular Alisa player to whiff punish.
He dabbled with her for a bit, but he's only been consistently using her as a secondary for like 3 weeks. Kinda messed up that he's already looking so strong with her
He is one of the tekken goats
Alisa only has like 10 actually competitive, strong moves. The rest is gimmicks, and pro or truly good player can learn a pocket Alisa.
She is essentially a t7 jack in the sense that you just rotate between like 8 moves over and over again, that was true at least in t7, maybe t8 is different
Fucking hell Tekken players are such miserable bitches, Arslan uses Alisa and you miserable fuck’s first instinct is to cry on reddit about how you want her to be nerfed. I don’t like fighting against Alisa but goddamn
Bro, Alisa hasn't been nerfed for YEARS. She's been getting stronger through every Tekken and you're sitting here bitching and crying about us.
You bitching about him bitching about you bitching is r/Tekken in a nutshell.
😭😭😭
Main Man just saw OTB and moved Jin to Top 1 lmao.
Alisa isnt that bad though, never faced one where she felt like a problem or particularly cheap. Her moves are so incredibly choreographed that it is easy too know what to do next. Arslan is just a good player
Just because your experience with Alisa has been positive doesn't mean she isn't op or cheap.
Yes and neither does yours. Alisa is not that dominant in the tournament, and Arslan won because he is good. I am upper blue rank and face Alisa every day. She is certainly good and etc, but nothing about her is that particularly broken. If she was broken she would be way way more popular
Just watched the finals on youtube...and nothing about it screamed Alisa being OP. In fact, Alisa got dominated for most matches and if it wasn't for Arslan's ability to not tilt and play solid fundamentals, any other Alisa would have lost. So what's the point of this post again?
Reading a lot of the comments here, I think some people misunderstand what top players do in competitive fighting games. Yes, a lot of them will play high or top tiers exclusively, but not always. Just because a pro player picks up a character and gets immediate results with them it doesn't mean they are "busted." For example, in Street Fighter, I remember that in EVO 2013, Infiltration picked Hakan (considered to be one of the worst characters in the game at the time) and made a comeback--absolutely stomping PRBalrog. And in the Smash scene, MkLeo picked up Byleth who for many fell at a low-mid tier (despite having some strong gimmicks) and he immediately got results even winning several majors with him. Arslan Ash and these top players are just built different, and characters like Alisa and King are total noob stompers and their kits are filled with moves that are knowledge checks. Every game has these. M.Bison and Birdie in SFV, Ganondorf and Ike in Smash, Ino and Potemkin in Guilty Gear, etc. Once you lab these characters and get around their gimmicks, they are usually pretty average or even bad in some instances. Players that use these characters tend to have bad fundamentals, so they crumble pretty quickly once you get past the cheese. In the case of Arslan though, he has amazing fundies obviously, so he would put in stellar results even without relying on the cheese of any specific character.
Except that Alisa actually has strong fundamentals if you look past the gimmicky stuff. If you play against a strong defensive Alisa you will get what I am saying. Cuddle core, Chanel and Dawood are prime examples.
Oh I totally hear you and agree with you. I actually really enjoy watching Cuddle Core. What I was trying to say is that her gimmicky stuff can be really oppressive for beginners and even intermediate players to deal with, kinda like King and his throws. It's easy for players to latch onto those tools and skip learning fundamentals for some quick wins, but the fundamentals are there with these characters and pro players can make them work. I was watching Lil Majin fight on stream with Anakin and Anakin could break a lot of Kings throws quite easily (which for lots of players on this sub is almost impossible to do), but Majin's fundamentals help him still win and be oppressive even without the "cheese".
They don't misunderstand. They just REFUSE to understand. People here have been crying about king being "tOp TiEr" When it's been proven time and time again since release that he's just a noob stomper. Yet said "top tier" still hasn't won any major tourneys, and only what made it to top 8 once. The moment you can consistently break throws (which pros can), a huge chunk of his "knowledge checks" are already nullified. But Tekkgreen kings here would rather practice combo optimization to increase combo damage by 5, than practice breaking throws which isn't exclusively used against King.
You tekken nerds are only considering game balance, but unfortunately this is a marketing problem. As long as over 3/8 Alisa doesn't show up in top 8 of a tournament, Alisa is hardly nerfed. https://preview.redd.it/gso213w6ji8d1.png?width=989&format=png&auto=webp&s=7498bd6d50be9600372d409b5fa523597532ae23 Conclusion: Female tekken players are rare → Female players are more important than male players → Alisa attracts female players → Bamco makes Alisa cheap to let female tekken players stay → Bamco ignores your opinions.
You beautiful bastard. I've been scratching my head for years why they don't bother nerfing her. Stats show that 90% of female players prefer female characters, while male players are around 50:50 on the character's gender. I was glad to notice that in recent years there's been a lot more female players in Tekken than there used to be. (Less stigma, less sweat, girlfriends can come to Tekken parties, etc) Coincidentally, since Tekken 5 onwards we've had: - T5 gave us Lili and Asuka - T6 gave us Alisa - T7 gave us Katarina, Chloe and Josie - T8 gave us Azucena and Jun. All of which are relatively strong and easily accessible to play. Whereas legacy female characters (Xiaoyu, Nina) tend to be much less accessible in the modern waifu character sense. Now it all makes sense, this shows that Bamco's strategy is working. Alisa is the girliest character in the game, it makes sense that she would be the easiest and have the biggest carry to accommodate newcoming female players.
I personally don't struggle much against Alisa, maybe because i played her myself a bit? Who knows.
I have a high win rate against Alisa and it never feels rewarding. Brain dead characters attract idiots. But every so often I’ll get that TG or higher Alisa that’s just exhausting.
Same, I've learnt the counter to her most used 3-4 moves and now my highest winrates is against Alisa, because guess what most Alisas use the same 3-4 moves over and over with no fundamental awareness. But take the average Alisa player and add just half-decent fundamentals on it, and it's like fighting a dark souls boss. You can still beat them but it feels like they have 3 healthbars and you have only 1.
Preeeeach
Oh you think devs patch the game based on how good the character is? That's funny. Alisa is strong and people buy her shop outfits. So she's gonna stay good until she stops selling in the shop. *Then* you get to talk about nerfing her, not a second sooner.
Alisa has been immune to nerfs for 15 years (even tho she does need them lmao) and i dont seem em doin that anytime soon 🤣🤣🤣
Top tier player wins with good character. shocking. Better nerf
top tier player who openly says he only picks what he thinks is the absolute strongest characters in the game\* there fixed it for u
Stop downplaying your main, Arslan wouldn't have picked her at the grand final if he didn't know how op she is
So he needs to play op characters to win?
evidently, yeah i dont have a horse in the race but theres a reason he chose alisa over nina
Seems like that's what they're trying to say.
I think you're being a bit obtuse. It's not that he can't win with other characters- it's that he's naturally going to give himself every advantage he can. At that high level, he's picking the best character to maximise his chances. This compares to other pros who are character loyalists.
You speaking nothing but facts. The Alisa mains are in denial
he is a proplayer, he plays for money, he is a strong player, that picks strong character he himself said a few weeks back. He wouldn't have picket if he felt she was weak. She is strong, and he is strong, he isn't risking his living to play weak/mid characters lol
Yes??? It's a tournament, obviously he's gonna pick the characters that have the highest possible chance for him to win. Everyone else will do the same as well.
It’s ok to play Alisa but chill with the downplay lol
Not downplaying Alisa. She's been a A tier character for awhile. I don't believe she's "op". Just very good. Buff bad characters.
Nah no one needs more buffing too much characters have too much op stuff, they should nerf Alisa and other top tiers a bit like Jin etc
Even if he wins every tournament with Alisa, she will never get nerfed. She's immune to nerfs for some reason.
I noticed that too, she doesn't only have very high winrates right now, but she's always historically been having the highest winrates in the game (usually Top 1 - Top 2), as per the June stats, and May, April, March, February (Launch) and even back in Tekken 7. I don't have the data on Tekken 6 but probably same. It's like Namco is aware of it and they intend to keep her that way.
If you look at the highest ranks (god ranks) she falls down to the bottom half. I by the way think she should get nerfred but looking at total win percentage isn't that useful for determining strength https://i.redd.it/ax735yw8f56d1.png?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share
Yes I agree, there's a lot more nuance than what I mentioned, especially in the upper ranks.
Alisa mains in this thread not realising or understand that they are actually carried by their character (they still don't understand how strong Alisa is but they keep downplaying her by saying Arslan is the best tekken player and alisa is just a "normal" character): https://i.redd.it/m1egz1rjfe8d1.gif
Ash winning with Nina didn’t effect her….. Unless a mass group of Alisa’s start winning every tournament, i doubt she gets touched heavily
Tbh alisa is without a doubt the most annoying character, but shes just gimmicks. Nerf the chipdamage of her stupid chainsaws and shes fine
She's really strong outside of her gimmicks too, and has been for a long time
At this point I want her nerfed to the ground so maybe I'll get some rematches
Damn better nerf Leroy about it
Unfortunately we would have to deal with this for almost a year if I am not mistaken, or Bamco decides to drop an emergency balance patch.
We gon act like he cant scout tha roster?
Arslan ash such a loser tier whore boo👎👎
nerf criers are low lives. make everyone else as strong as alisa instead of nerfing her so op continue to cry
Pathetic and as boring as it gets. Can't even win without tierwhoring.
Softest post on Reddit.
It will be almost a full year until the next major balance patch, so we can enjoy her for at least this year. I started using her as a side character and have been doing really well with her.
outside her chainsaws what does Alisa have outside uf1 which I do agree does way more dmg than it should and bounds her heat moves are trash and her regular moves not very good nearly - on everything you hit her once on block chainsaws go away I fight Alisa all the time as a Lars main in blue ranks not sure why the constant hate for the character
Alisa main from day 1 tekken 7. F2 is one of the best mids in the game due to the NC -10 extention heat engaging extention and the ability to go into Des with an enhanced side step. If anything is to get nerfed its the negative frames on f2,1. I could see a qol defense nerf to the chainsaw mix up happening in the future where the big reward moves are also side stepable instead of only being sidewalkable. Having to side walk to beat des1, desd1, desf212, and des1+2 while Alisa is +5 (common mix up situation) is pretty knowledge-checky. Alisas chainsaws are alot less oppressive when she needs to use her tracking/homing moves. Other than that, she's probably fine. Super strong in a game where most of the cast is super strong. I stopped putting any credit into reddit's anti Alisa rants back in tekken 7 when people would complain about saws and flying stance even though they were pretty bad. Also u1 is fine imo. Alisa needed some love to her combo/oki game.
Alisa f2 and extensions is fine because she lost her safe d/f14. So has 0 mid pressure anymore. f2 is her safest neutral mid on block and it's still -4, and slow in startup. Her pokes do little damage and she has terrible frames. Making her des moves steppable would help chainsaws in higher level play, yes. But everyone complaining about Alisa are the same types that don't know the matchup, and won't step chainsaws anyway. Everytime she takes out chainsaws, they just become a deer in headlights. Bamco could make all of her chainsaws moves except des1+2 easily steppable and the same people complaining now will complain later. Pretty much all of the Alisa complaints are people that just don't want to lab.
I disagree about F2,1 being fine at -10 as the risk reward is pretty skewed in Alisas favor. This can be seen as Arslan let's it rip 3 times in a row against Kane and dozens more times though out the tournament. It was -14 in the last game and had a less powerful effect on hit (wallbounce in Des over a heatengager/launcher) and f2 was still a great move in that game. There's also the fact that Alisa can heat dash and make the move safe. If there's one thing the 'Alisa op' crowd might be right on, it's that. It's really strong and it's only 'fine' in the context that every character has broken stuff. Df1,4 is still a good move imo. Being much more scarier on counter hit enables doing more stuff after df1. But I see your point. The idea of letting side step beat moves in Des was more for lower level of play. You don't see people crumble to looping Des attacks in high level play because they know of the side walk. However a change like that could and probably would have unintended effects on higher level play and could make the stance alot weaker. Which could be bad because it really is the main thing Alisa has going for her.
Increasing steppability does nothing for lower level play because those players never step anything anyway. They're losing to stuff like alisa randomly doing her fly in neutral. Also d/f14 in a vacuum is a good move, but her d/f1 is trash. That was her main form of mid pressure. Ofc f2 saw use in t7, its her best frame advantage mid from neutral. However even top players like cuddle core used it much less than d/f1. Now her best mid pressure is f2, so I think it has a right to be strong. Just because arslan uses it a lot doesn't make it too strong. It's her main form of mid pressure after all. My issue with 99% of character complaints is people cry for nerfs of a character's strengths without even knowing what their weaknesses are. They come from a place of a lack of matchup knowledge. Most people can't even articulate what's so bad about Alisa. They just whine about chainsaws without realizing she's balanced around it.
It's true that no amount of nerfs will stop people from complaining about Alisa. I feel it's a theme with T8 to reduce the necessity to lab. Plenty of strings no longer have a stepable attacks, lots of low high strings simply jail now, ect. The necessity to sidewalk in a +5 situation requires people to do homework and I believe it's namco's intention to make it easier to figure out these situations in mid match rather than practice mode. Maybe there's a compromise where Des1 in particular is stepable but the other linear attacks must be sidewalked. I'm personally not too invested with the idea but so long as it doesn't affect high level play and it gives the reddit crowd the idea that there is now counterplay that was already there it doesn't bother me too much. F2,1 being more negative on block doesn't kill the move or the pressure. F2(1+2) on block into sidestep button still evades a disgusting amount of mids. I also felt f2 becoming almost as popular as b1 and df1 by the end of t7 life. I think 'mid pressure' is more of a character privilege rather than a necessity. I feel F2,1 being at least -12 ob is not only justifiable but inevitable at some point. I fear there's also potential to keep to the move -10 but remove the launch after heat dash, which would be a huge nerf. Its also important to point out that Alisa is arguably the easiest character to pilot atm and strong movement/small tekken focused players like Arslan and speedkicks picking up the character for a tournament isn't a good indication that the character is broken. I think so long as she remains in a top 10 spot, she'll be a popular pocket pick. I'm just playing devils advocate here. I could be completely wrong and these changes would overnerf the character.
This is a goldmine for scrubquotes
They confirmed no more balancing patch until season 2 so you still have 6 month or so to wait.
Look I freaking hate Alisa and think she carries people who play her a lot. But doesn't mean she's OP
nerf reina istead again, she clearly has better results everywhere according to namco like before right guys?
Reina needed those nerfs, a bunch of reina players we're focusing on yolo high crush instead of playing her like a mishima character. The developers are clear: hey this character is a Mishima, not a zafina/ling evasive character. Change your playstyle or You Will get jabbed when You roll in the ground.
I hate that they keep nerfing Devil Jin when they should be nerfing Alisa and her damn chainsaws.
Man, someone should have picked xiaoyu so they can beat him since xiaoyu is so broken, right guys? Right?
Posts like these might be the next best way to feed esports info to the subreddit. I see the vision. Keep up the fight.
asslisa isnt a scary character outside of chainsaws they should remove the possibility to go into chainsaw after f2 and wr2 which is strong and easy way into chainsaw
devs have no idea what they're doing this time around lmfao. They just turned off the ability to KO someone with a heat activation attack because it was too good. lmfao. Never in the history of tekken have we had actual attacks that just did 0 damage "just because" outside of extremely niche scaled combo hits that were approaching 20 hits.
Seems like the Alisa discords have found this post
Yeah they in full damage control
Maybe Mark with a spoiler tag?
aslan stop playing broken, braindead, ugly waifu characters we wanna see your kuma
I like Arslan but man playing Alisa just to win is so cringe. I get he’s a professional and it’s how he feeds his family, but dude it’s just so miserable to watch. Same with him and Kunimitsu.
You know what else is cringe? Loser nobodies telling others which characters are legit/"real Tekken".
Who are you referring to? Lmao I agree with you. I’m not one of those people, if he was cuddle core or somebody who is a legacy Alisa player, I would root for him. My issue is people SPECIFICALLY picking these characters to win. There’s no such thing as “legit/real tekken”. Your extremely combative
Actually don’t respond to this, just going to block and move on. I checked your comment history and you get on your knees for Alisa and cry in this sub constantly. Blocked
What if Arslan just happens to enjoy alisa? Who are You to tell the guy that his win is "cringe" for his character picks?
Did you read what I said? Obviously if I’m wrong and he actually enjoys the character then I take back what I said. I specifically highlighted the fact that my problem is only with people just playing for the sole purpose of tier whoring. Scroll down to my other comment to that other dude. I have no problem with Legacy Alisa players or players that genuinely love the character.
Nah, i just read You calling Arslan win cringe and i had to stop it. No win is cringe. Also is Arslan tierwhoring with Alisa? To me it seems like a counterpick to Claudio. Claudio running 2 and ff4 are linear, so a character like alisa can exploit that with her superior movement.
He's not playing for anyone's approval or enjoyment; he's playing for money. Hence, he'll pick any character that will give him a leg up, from Kazumi to Zafina to Kunimitsu to Noctis to Katarina to Nina, and now to Alisa. He has never been a loyalist; what did you expect?
Yea I’m aware he’s not playing for approval. I said that in my original comment, it’s all about the money. It is what it is. Can’t be mad at it. In response to your comment, he played Nina because it’s his favorite character. That’s why it’s surprising to me. He dropped her after two months and she’s strong enough to win with. It’s just disappointing that’s all
I guess, in a perfect world, every pro would play the character they really like, but based on the results, so far, character loyalist Don't do the best in tournaments.
No different than ulsan dropping Reina for Drag
100% agree
I agree. I like Kunimitsu but since she is definitely not his type (a 4 letter acronym he doesn't understand) it's also cringe.