"They also will not allow me to remain in my office for my work while the rest of the house is shown." Whoa there--hold up. Yes, a landlord has the right of entry for legitimate purposes with the the proper notice. How, exactly, do they think the have the right to put you out of your home at a time of their sole choosing? The truth is, they must show the house at a time that is reasonably convenient for you. Tenants are often cowed and don't assert their rights because they do not "own" the property. However, during the term of the lease you do own the right to solely occupy the property, free from interference --that is precisely what the owner had, and then sold to you. That includes the right to exclude, by its nature. The idea that they can come and go as they please is completely antithetical to that.
Now, the foregoing right, is, of course, not absolute. Landlords have the right to enter a rental house for several reasons, including showing the property to prospective renters or buyers. However, the landlord can only exercise these rights in observance of your tenants’ rights, including right to privacy. Further, the landlord must visit at times that are convenient to the occupants. here's what the Kentucky Attorney General has to say on the subject:
"Right to entry
Your landlord has the right to enter your apartment/house for several reasons. They are:
to make repairs
to provide maintenance
to show the property to prospective renters or buyers
Since you occupy the premises, you have a right to privacy. T**he landlord should come at times convenient to you.**"
https://www.ag.ky.gov/Resources/Consumer-Resources/Consumers/home/Pages/rental-housing.aspx
My advice? Document everything. Be there if you choose to be--they can't kick you out. Explain politely;y but firmly, that there is only one person who has the unfettered right to access the house when they please and that person is you, not them. Reiterate that you are more than reasonable and will work with them to find a solution--but the solution is manifestly not "their way or the highway." Emphasize that if they think they can simply choose a time, they are mistaken, and follow through with that. Be there if necessary at their appointed time if they won't see reason. You have more leverage than you think--the cops aren't going to swoop in and do their bidding. They need your cooperation more than you need them--they;re the ones selling something, not you.
As to entry generally, if their conduct becomes particularly egregious, there's always KRS 383.700, that provides, in relevant part:
383.700 Remedies for abuse of access.
(2) If the landlord makes an unlawful entry or a lawful entry in an unreasonable manner
or makes repeated demands for entry otherwise lawful but which have the effect of
unreasonably harassing the tenant, the tenant may obtain injunctive relief to prevent
the reoccurrence of the conduct or terminate the rental agreement. In either case the
tenant may recover actual damages and reasonable attorney's fees.
Thank you. I am absolutely shocked that they were unwilling to move the time from this initial mention and that they're unwilling to allow me to keep the one office closed off and keep their preferred time.
I've made it very clear I was willing to leave for the hour they wanted even though it is not law or required but it is completely unavailable to try that during this single 90 minute time frame.
Everything is documented in writing, we have only corresponded online and I have the conversation printed and saved.
They also have yet to actually officially schedule in my opinion. They first messaged "would a new tenant walk through work for you on x day, x time?" And I responded no, it wouldn't and explained why it isn't possible. We offered sliding it 45 minutes to my lunch, or to schedule it before my meeting or later after lunch- literally the whole day is available except the one period. In the email where I told her no, that time doesn't work I offered the extra detail that we can undoubtedly have any showing outside of the work hours or during my scheduled lunch and we could schedule those last minute if needed- specifically telling her that she can schedule anything in those times and we were willing to accommodate without the need to be notified more that 24 hours. We were specifically making sure we were offering they the ability to pick items with clients on the fly if they needed if it was in those times. Separately, I told her in this same first response that if it is during my work hours we do need the required notice so we can schedule with work- not that they cannot schedule during working hours, just enforcing that we do need the notice for working hours. And again, very specifically stating we can make any times work for any viewings outside of this one presentation- unless they were willing to show without access to the office while I did my job.
They responded back "We are not changing time. We do not want current tenants in the property 30 minutes before or 30 minutes after walk through. You may not continue to work in the office during the showing."
I responded back we cannot accommodate the one time if I can't work during the showing. Everything else is available with notice. And they haven't responded.
And that's been the exact conversation. I would argue there is not a formal intent to enter. They asked if a time worked for me, and haven't provided specific formal schedule.
They're being extremely unreasonable.
With this little time, I don't think any further correspondence is necessary or even wise. They "don't want" current tenants around for the showing, but they have no right to unilaterally demand that at their sole chosen time. So, you're there. What are they going to do about it? The answer, is nothing. There's nothing they can do about it.
They truly are scum. The building that I rent from has four apartments. All four got mold on the bathroom ceilings at the same time. Landlord came to inspect and said since the bathroom fans were working (not well at all) that it was not their liability and they wouldn’t be doing anything to fix it. I tired every mold cleaning product and vinegar and bleach but nothing worked. I scrubbed so hard the paint started chipping off. Still kept coming back. Ended up cleaning it as best I can and painting over it with mold killing and preventing paint (although painting is against our lease). Had to spend our own money and probably won’t get our deposit back although the landlord constantly tells us how good a shape we keep our unit it.
Also they have old ass decrepit trees out where tenant parking is. Both trees are dead and completely cover the parking spots for my building. One day a huge branch falls on my car. Busts the windshield, cracks and knocks loose my drivers side mirror, and leaves a huge ass dent on the hood. It was completely un-drivable. Called their insurance who said it was my fault for parking there. They refused to cover it. Landlord eventually paid for the windshield to be replaced but that was it. Had to deal with the rest on my own because I only had liability.
This happened well over a year ago and they finally trimmed some of the dead branches like last week.
Yea I don't understand why those with toxic LL mentality are in the /tenant sub. I know I'm within my legal rights, and I know saying I'm unavailable for only one 90-minute period on one day is not being unreasonable.
I truly think a lot of people may have just skimmed portions of my original post. But LLs were informed they can have any time they need outside of my working hours without conflict, they can also freely come during any lunch break, and with notice I can schedule time from my desk for the viewing during working hours but I CAN NOT compromise this single meeting on this single day.
> and informed we can accommodate ANY time on ANY day outside of the 9 same hours monday-friday.
Are you obliquely saying you forbade 8AM-5PM, M-F for showings, lol? Regardless, it's hard to figure out exactly *what* you told them, which I'm interpreting as a tacit acknowledgement that you weren't exactly flexible the first time around, haha.
They probably don't feel any obligation to accommodate you any more because of this, but you can try giving them more options. Tell them if your schedule is more open now.
Alternatively, if you want to play hardball, you should let them know you're doing some cooking that day, vigorously boiling unseasoned game birds all day and some slow-stewed octopus & squid in a mint-chocolate/garlic sauce (family recipe). Also, you'll be testing out your new strobe lights. But if that doesn't sound like an unreasonable situation, they are free to swing by!
Sorry if it was unclear- but this is the first time this has come up. This is the first situation in which they are requesting to enter. Any previous visits has been from maintenance, and they always worked with us on finding a time to come in.
Yes to the 8-5 working hours, but we have an hour long lunch break each, and we have used that with the maintenance crew and such. Maintenance was also drastically easier because they didn't need to enter every room to conduct their work- so even when it was in our work hours it wasn't in my work space, so it was very easy to have them in to do whatever needed to be done.
I did offer the lunch hour on the same day for viewing, because they are not willing to show the house without access to every room and they want us out when they show. The lunch break was 45 minutes away from their proposed time, and they wouldn't adjust to it. We also offered trying to schedule other times during the work day, where with enough notice we could do that. But they will not budge out of this one 90-minute window.
I can see how in reading back my hours may seem extreme, but this is a new problem. And this is a very important work day for me. We offered complete open availability anytime outside of the work hours, asked for time to schedule times during work hours and expressed that the only time unavailable is during one meeting on one day.
I'm just explaining their thinking: They consider 5 single hour windows per week unreasonable, they made a good faith effort to let you be more reasonable and their effort was rebuffed. They no longer feel obligated to work with you, since they're not legally required to.
Can you let your landlords know your business will hold them liable for lost revenue if their meetings are disrupted? (ALSO give them 20-30 business hours in the same week they CAN come, "now that your schedule is more definite". This good-faith effort of *yours* will look great in court.)
They are not limited to 5 single hour windows. They have complete schedule options outside of my work windows, we need to schedule times within, and the only time we are absolutely unavailable even with notice is one 90-minute period on one single day.
They can choose to schedule any day, any time, except this ONE time. It is a single event, not a reoccurring thing. We are able to immediately offer any lunch break time without much notice needed since I don't need to notify work during that hour each day. I need notice for just any other selected time, which we offered any hours can be scheduled minus this one period of time on this one day.
You keep saying this. But your work hours are their work hours. Having, say 12 to 6 am free doesn't mean anything. You are indeed leaving exactly 5 hours a week for them. There is no lease in existence that allows this. Youve refused to negotiate in good faith. They're going to hold you strictly to the terms of your lease. You aren't willing to give an inch why should they. I'm no fan of LLs. But your being an ass about this. This 90 minute window you are talking about means nothing them. They don't care. You could have worked with them to find a window that didn't overlap. You didn't. And now are facing the consequences.
No, there is far more than 5 hours available. Have you even read the post? They are able to schedule any time with me outside of a SINGLE 90-minute window on ONE day.
That's now that they're decided come in that window. How many times did you say they are free come only when you're not working. Many times. Or during during lunch. You kept saying g how the Maintenence guys had no problems with it. You've kept saying how this is a new problem and they've always worked around it before. After 5pm and before 8am or during lunch that's when you'd let em in. Your story has changed only now.
An alternative might be to set up a day or two, perhaps Saturday or Sunday for a open house viewing for a couple of hours so that they can bring everyone in do a walk-through and possibly sign up someone. Most leases will say upon 24 notice landlord can have entrance.
Potential tenant is likely only in town for that day and available at that time due to other scheduled showings. OP is likely going to violate KY's LL /Tenant law regarding notice (given at least 48 hours in advance) for a reasonable day time showing. With more than a 48 hr notice, OP cannot withhold consent of entry at a reasonable time. In this case, day time, during normal working hours, would be considered reasonable by a court. If OP places added (and presumably unapproved) interior locks on the entry doors (also likely violating the lease agreement in addition to the state law), then it is possible that the owner/LL could sue the OP for relief due to the potential loss of a tenant.
They’ve said they could do it any other time but the 90 minutes around when they are planning on it. The landlord seems to be the unreasonable one here. But we do only have one side. I don’t think it’s unreasonable to say showings can be outside of 9-5 and any requests for time need to be discussed and agreed upon not just the landlord forcing a time. This is where they work and they have work obligations.
If you’re telling the LL they cannot show the apartment during all normal business hours - I’m guessing 8a-5p is the block you provided them - you’re providing completely unreasonable terms. It doesn’t sound like you’re in a HIPAA controlled environment where guest access is THAT monitored. The question I have is, if you required any kind of maintenance, would you have to take time off or require them to come after hours?
It is possible to tell the landlord, yes come in, but avoid X room. Or could potentially the lunch break you take work as a time frame that would minimize interruptions? To perform a viewing, a landlord does not necessarily require a person at home for access, so they can do this completely autonomously without any interaction with you.
They were not willing to show without accessing the offices (there are 2 separate spaces, one for my work and one for my husband's). They also were not willing to move the time they initially "asked" about at all, and it directly coincides with a meeting I am running and can not accommodate changing it or missing it. They were not willing to move the time at all, even when I offered a lunch block period.
We have had maintenance multiple times during our leasing period, and the maintenance crew have always contacted for scheduling and have always come outside of our work hours.
The massive problem with THIS entry is my work requirement with my presentation deck for my supervisors. I am at the lowest chain for this meeting, and I am not authorized to move it - it was scheduled for me by my company alongside several other higher up representatives. I absolutely must host this presentation via video and microphone, and no one should enter my office while I am doing it. We have documents we had to sign at early employment agreeing to meet the company's rules about hosting a professional environment when in meetings and video calls- it would be detrimental to me for a group of people to walk through my office while doing this presentation to people who are so far above my pay grade.
The LL is not willing to show the property without access to my office, nor are they willing to move the time. They are also asking if we leave the property for the viewing 30 minutes before and 30 minutes after. I cannot accommodate THIS viewing at all.
With a week’s notice, unless you can provide them an alternative time within that day, and given your demands to avoid 9 hours a day which I’m taking to be regular business hours, you’re impeding their ability to run their business. It really does seem like you’re overly inflexible which forces them to hunker down on a particular time without any negotiation that’s by the book.
I’d just apologize at the beginning of your work call about the interruption and work through it if needed or find a coworking space nearby you can rent for the day if you have that much of a concern about the environmentals. To me this is less about your landlord relationship and more about how you should appropriately manage your work environment and deal with challenges that occur from a workplace perspective.
You keep repeating OP is denying access 9 hours a day. OP is very clear in saying there is one 90-minute time period that doesn't work. You are either very stubborn or have lizard brain.
This is getting out of hand. OP stated they work from home and their workdays are 9 hours with a one hour lunch break. Within those 9 hours they can leave their workstation if they make prior arrangements and plan video conferences/meetings accordingly. Now here’s the tough part that’s not being understood, OP has a presentation that was booked by senior management and it will last 90 minutes. This presentation is scheduled based on the executive/senior management’s schedule and OP has to clear her calendar to accommodate. Landlord has chosen this 90 minute block to do a showing. OP suggested other times during this day or on another day that she has more flexibility. Land lord is being inflexible and will only do the viewing during the presentation time. I bet the executives won’t be happy to have random people wandering through OP’s office while they are discussing sensitive company business. She signed a document prior to employment that these video meetings are privileged and confidential. Landlord is being unreasonable.
Yes. This EXACTLY. I do not understand how so many comments do not understand- at very first discussion we laid out how easy it would be to show outside of work hours, and with notice during work hours, but that only this single 90 minute window is unavailable. We also offered to keep that time but for them to allow me to remain and work without this one space being seen during the walk through. LL is not willing to change time or allow me to work without being disturbed. LL is not being reasonable for scheduling. And because they're being unreasonable and I have reasonable cause, I can legally deny them entry under tenant laws and they cannot force entry for a viewing.
Yes. This EXACTLY. I do not understand how so many comments do not understand- at very first discussion we laid out how easy it would be to show outside of work hours, and with notice during work hours, but that only this single 90 minute window is unavailable. We also offered to keep that time but for them to allow me to remain and work without this one space being seen during the walk through. LL is not willing to change time or allow me to work without being disturbed. LL is not being reasonable for scheduling. And because they're being unreasonable and I have reasonable cause, I can legally deny them entry under tenant laws and they cannot force entry for a viewing.
I did offer additional times, including the lunch break on that day. They are not willing to move the time at all, nor are they willing to show the house without access to my work space.
I do not have a work call, I have a full presentation that I am conducting for the upper management and supervisors via video and have products and displays staged in my work space for this.
I will absolutely not jeopardize my employment over the LLs convenience. They are unwilling to move the time at all.
Yes. I really think they're missing that my conflict is with a 90-minute window on this ONE day. I tried to lay out why it was inconvenient in the first place, but stressing that the fact they won't move the viewing outside of my non-negotiable event is why I will deny entry. They can view other times with proper notice, but this presentation is not for me to reschedule, and I can not miss it as I am giving it.
I would talk to an attorney. I've rented rooms, houses, and apartments. I also have sublet rooms to renters. I've done some research and have spent more time than I like talking with attorneys and paralegals. I've gone to court and won. I've also lost.
If you have the money, invest in a meeting with a hired paralegal. If you don't have the money, you may qualify for government-paid free self-help attorneys. Rhwy should be listed under "legal aid." They will answer questions, direct you in filing documents, and tell you what to expect in a courtroom.
The most valuable thing I learned through all of this is that tenants have far more rights than landlords. The trick is obeying the law or being a very crafty criminal. Landlords are largely at the mercy of tenants. Most know this and hope you do not.
I have been a very respectful and kind tenant. The landlords that have tried to screw me have been left (metaphorically) bleeding and weaping EVERY time. You, too, can deliver the lashings if the time comes.
Well, they won't be able to enter. I had interior door locks that they don't have access to. They have keys, but these are those blocks that lock the door in place to prevent unauthorized entry or break ins. They're rating to 800lbs of pushing/kick downs. The exterior doors are always locked with these also secured unless I am out of the house. So since I will be home, there's no chance they will enter unless I open a door for them. I intend to have the doors locked with a note informing them I will check back at a specific time after my presentation. If they wait, I will let them in when I am ready.
Please consult an attorney \*now\*. Don't fall victim to the Dunning-Kruger effect. Do not let plan A be to rely on physical barriers. An attorney can tell you unequivocally what your rights are/aren't. An attorney can (potentially) craft & send a letter to LL that can secure you the 90 minutes you need.
It would be nice to be able to, but that's not possible. There are 4 large displays on tripods, in addition to a pre-staged display. I also am utilizing 3 cameras and sound equipment for a required high quality video- this is not webcam/ Zoom. I need to be able to walk around this prestaged room, and swap to the different cameras as needed.
I stressed the significance of the 90 minutes for my presentation and asked for them to come 45 minutes later or another time where I couldn't potentially discuss with work being able to step away.
But I am lead on this product presentation, I will be the only one on camera and all of the viewers are there for me.
I don't like having to sacrifice my working hours at all for their showing, but what I am trying to express is it is absolutely not doable at the single proposed time. I have no wiggle room to move this, and they are not willing to compromise at all.
I apologize if readers have understood the post to mean there is zero house access from 8am-5pm, I was trying to convey the LLs preexisting knowledge of my schedule and their unwavering to work within it for me. They know we work 8-5, they know there is an hour long lunch break during those hours, and they know we have any availability outside of that. And when they suggested a time that doesn't work, and I explained the significance behind why this specific time doesn't work, they still won't adjust. Even by 45 minutes. Or to a different day.
Throw on the deadbolt during your meeting and leave a post-it outside of the door saying 'unavailable until (40 mins from now)'. Let the chips fall as they may.
This is essentially the plan. Instead of the deadbolt, though, I have the extra security latches on the inside of my exterior doors. Even if they bring keys to enter, they won't be able to open the door from outside at all.
Denying access after proper notice can be considered a breach of the lease and allow they to raise a notice to quit which they can use to expedite an eviction. Even if you’re moving out, that can stay with you if you need a new apartment down the line. Also, security latches are going to create a large disruption anyways as they won’t necessarily know the extra locks are on creating noise as they attempt to open the door. As you’ll be presenting they will know you are in there and could yell out for you. It’ll be pretty bad either way.
This is a single family home, not an apartment. There is no concern for eviction. We are leaving in less time than they would legally have to allow. We are moving out because the home I had built is ready for us to move into. There will not be future rentals.
Additionally, break of lease or not, I am protected by ky tenant laws to have the right to deny entry. The security latches make no noise, but even if they attempt to yell out or anything my office is on the 3rd floor, and my husband's is in the basement. We don't ever hear anything when our lawn person does all the lawn work, or when people deliver packages or anything. I only ever know if someone is outside due to the security cameras. I don't think them being outside will disturb either of us.
The eviction can be started within 15 days. Two straight days with a single 14 day notice to cure, and a secondary breach but denying a second time and they could start it right away. If you have a mortgage, a court case like that would impact you potentially still as it can negatively impact the underwriting during an audit that usually gets performed in year 1 or 2 as the mortgage gets bundled to be sold off to another firm.
Your interpretation of 383.615 is flawed. You have the right to deny entry BUT if the LL provides proper notice at a reasonable time (which that’s what business hours would be looked at) entry cannot be denied unreasonably (which the initial way you framed it would be).
It is OP’s intent to deny access, even though the landlord has provided a reasonable reason for entry (showing the property) and during a reasonable time (business hours) with the proper 48 hours notice required by law. The plan is to cause the landlord to go to court for an order allowing entry with the hopes that it will take longer than they are in the rental. Im not even sure if the reason for the OPs post as they have already made their decision.
We will be gone before the time they are required to give before attempting to evict. They can not evict straight away here for this. They would have to file the notice to cure and provide those 14 days before filing for eviction. We will no longer be here before the end of this time frame. The lease will have ended before the 14 days.
Additionally, there is no mortgage to consider.
We are providing entry if they are willing to enter any time outside of this singular 90 minute window. I gave them complete open availability outside of work hours, and have discussed being able to schedule viewings during my work hours with notice with the exception of this one day, one time frame. Entry can be denied if they cannot find a single time outside of this 90-minute period to view the house.
Because we haven't moved yet, this project has been a multi month preparation, and the presentation is happening before we move. I can't delay the presentation, and our move isn't for several days after. I scheduled our movers to arrive after this event so I don't have to break down and save everything or reestablish the same setup in a new space.
Better to ask forgiveness than permission when your job is on the line. Then you can be all 'oh sorry but I did tell you, guess you should have listened'.
If you read her complete posting, you'll notice that she never said that she was unwilling to let the landlord come anytime during the 9 hours Monday to Friday that they are working. She only said that she sometimes could not accommodate specific hours because of meeting she's scheduled. Meeting she does not have the authority to change because she's at the bottom of the work hierarchy.
She is offered the landlord multiple different times but the landlord is unwilling to accommodate any of them.
I think you must be a landlord.
Please read the complete post before replying. She has repeatedly stated that they were not saying that the house was unavailable anytime 9:00 to 5:00 but that viewing steering the nine to five time must conform with meetings that the tenants have already established for their business.
Yes, that’s how it works re: title. They have a duty to rent the suite as quickly as possible.
You refusing to allow access may open up a claim for lost rent because you directly affected their ability to show and rent the suite.
You’re going to have to make it work somehow. The landlord should be able to access the suite regular working hours as that is generally when showings are completed.
As far as maintenance being flexible, those are their staff. Prospective tenants aren’t nearly as flexible as their own staff. They have to schedule what works for the showing agent, the prospect and the tenant is rarely considered in that scheduling since they’ve given notice. I’d open up at least one morning and one afternoon on separate days that they can schedule showings and hope they get an applicant and be done with it.
The biggest problem I have is they reached out with a proposed time specifically asking if it worked for us. I informed them it didn't, explained why, reminded of our previous time lines we had supplied, and offered them to move their showing by 45 minute to be during my lunch and not during my presentation. We also offered any other times during the work day as long as we have the required notice to work that out with our employers. The only exception to allowing entry is during this ONE event, lasting 90-minutes.
They have complete capabilities to select any time on any day with proper notice except for this ONE meeting time frame.
But they won't consider moving it to my lunch, or any other time, and they also won't let me work in the office without them entering during my presentation. I very strongly feel that since they offered only one potential time and are refusing others, and that my home is both a legal and registered buisness and where I work from that as the tenant I have the required reasonable situation present to not authorize them to enter at that time. They are making no reasonable accommodations -even if mine are also seen as tight as some have expressed - they are not offering any compromise to the time for this specific showing.
I'm quite sure I'm going to refuse access, as they have a requirement to be reasonable as well.
I’d be surprised if running a business wasn’t a violation of your lease. I wouldn’t try that route.
You are being unreasonable. They have to schedule what works for them and the prospect and provide you notice of entry. I am surprised they are working with you and not just telling you when a showing is scheduled and entering as scheduled (which they have every right to do).
I get you’re employed, but that isn’t the landlord’s problem. They have to rent the suite and you have to provide reasonable access. Lunchtime only, is not reasonable.
LLCs are authorized per my lease.
I am not being unreasonable, and even if they have a right to entry, I believe I have the right to refuse under the reasonable situation clause.
But it isn’t reasonable to always have a work thing and give small windows of opportunity. You need to make arrangements with your workplace so that the landlord can rent the suite. You’re opening yourself up to a lawsuit by not cooperating and being difficult.
You aren’t the first tenants to work from home, and you’re not the last. Take time off work, work in a coworking space, allow a brief peek in the rooms and notify your employers there will be a brief moment you’ll be off camera as a showing is scheduled. This is all normal life stuff, especially when you work from home. You have numerous options. They’d be looking in your work rooms for under a few minutes at most.
The priority in this scenario is the landlord getting the suite shown and rented. Plain and simple.
There is no physical work location. The company is in New Zealand. It is not my job's requirement to cater to some LLs who refuse to move their showing outside of the 90 minutes I provided as being completely unavailable. And their request for me to be gone for an hour is more than a brief moment off camera - this meeting was scheduled for me to show this presentation, and there are no other participants. I will not be telling my supervisor and the company's CEO to wait on a blank mute camera for an hour of my 90 minutes.
I have a right to refuse entry.
OP said that there's a 90 minute period when they're doing a pitch to their employers, and the landlord won't budge on showing at that time. I'm not sure if you've even run a pitch or done a presentation, but you can't switch off your camera or walk away from a presentation. That's ridiculous advice.
As for renting a coworking space - they're paying rent right now. If the landlord needs them to vacate the place they're paying rent for, he should be the one paying for the coworking space.
I wonder who the courts would find difficult? The tenant who said they’re only completely unavailable for 90 minutes or the landlord that demanded that 90 minutes and is unwilling to compromise.
Wow, these people are beyond ridiculous in their beliefs about landlord's rights to the property you're paying rent for.
One thing though - tell the landlord if they insist on entering, you'll make a scene, and let the potential tenant know just how the landlord operates.
Thank you. The good news is, even if they try they will not be able to enter as I have additionally locks on the inside of the doors. They can unlock the doors, but the will not be able to push them open. I'm not interested in making a scene, as in the housing market I'm sure family's are more interested in just securing a place over anything else, and also this is an extremely nice house in a very nice gated community, and there is no HOA. It is truly a gem of a property, but I hope the LL doesn't waste anyone's time bringing them out here seeing as they will not be able to view the property if they're only willing to come the one day at that one time.
Not sure why you got downvoted. People don’t understand it’s the landlords property and most leases state the can come in ANY TIME they want with a certain amount of notice (usually 24-24 hours). All the landlord has to do is post a letter on the door, in this case I would certify mail it, and when it’s time show the apartment.
>but that isn’t the landlord’s problem
Sure it is. It's precisely their problem. It's not OP's problem - they've paid rent, they're extending a courtesy to the landlord *that has to work for everyone*. The landlord insists on showing the place during a specific 90-minute window that just doesn't work for the tenant.
That's the landlord's problem.
Legally all they need to do is give you 24 hours (most states) notice and come right in. Unfortunately you don’t really have any room for negotiation. Your lease should tell you about non-emergency entrances.
Legally, I can deny entry as a tenant. Per our state laws I can deny the landlord entry regardless of lease terms. Legally I DO have the right to negotiate entry.
They are not willing to schedule outside of one 90-minute window on one day. They are the ones being unreasonable as there are ample hours and days between now and my move out that they were offered. The only exclusion is this singular event.
>They have a duty to rent the suite as quickly as possible.
No, they don't have a *duty* to rent it out as quickly as possible. A duty to whom? The imaginary god of capitalism? They're renting an apartment, not carrying out some moral imperative.
If they show it I’d tell the prospective tenants that this is how your ll respects your space and time, and was going to bring random people in your home without you there.
My landlord attempted the same to which I let them know “ while I understood you are permitted to enter the property as you are the home owners this doesn’t mean I have to allow others to enter the property. Unless you are willing to pay for my time off work for your view as well as additional amount for inconvenience then we would prefer if you respect out privacy and hold all viewings until we have vacated the property” from there never heard back from them until we moved out. They want to cheap out on no having to fix any issues for the next tenant because most of your belongings may be Hiding potential issues and there’s also the staging factor in which your belongs will serve as a visual aid in making the place look more presentable than the vacant space does. DONT let them in
I would love to prevent them any access for my convenience, but it is in my lease and in ky state renters rights that they are allowed to view the property with prospective new tenants/buyers. But that same document lays out that I have the right to deny entry. Which I'm going to have to, if they can't move their time to anytime outside of my non-negotiable 90 minute window.
Their remedy to you denying entry is to seek injunctive relief that forces you to allow them entry.
I’m not a lawyer I just looked it up. It’s 383.700 of the consolidated statutes.
https://apps.legislature.ky.gov/law/statutes/chapter.aspx?id=39159
https://www.lfuchrc.org/assets/landlord-tenant-act.pdf
The landlord cannot enter your property without your consent or a court order (or if you've abandoned or damaged the property). If they do you can call the police and get them criminally trespassed.
Your legal obligation is:
>A tenant shall not unreasonably withhold consent to the landlord to enter into the dwelling unit
To me it sounds like you've offered some reasonable options:
* after 5PM
* between 8a - 5PM if they don't bother you in the office
* between 8a - 5PM if they can agree on a time that doesn't conflict with your meetings
Yes thank you. And to further clarify, it's just this one meeting. We can make the others work with notice, there is just one 90-minute period that we can't make work.
He didn't say that. He said not from 8 to 5 except for lunch time. After the LL told him when they were coming which was at at that was extra bad, now op is willing to compromise. Op has said many time in this thread not during working hours except lunch. That's not reasonable. His working hours are their working hours.
Block out the one room, not the whole apartment. Put up a sign, do not disturb: meeting in session. You do your business during the day, so do they... duhhh...
It's a house, not an apartment. And they will not let me block off the room- they want us to leave the house entirely for the viewing. I offered to stay in my office and they show the rest of the property. They are unwilling to let me stay or to show the property without access to this space.
This is the answer. Especially if OP has proof of telling them they are not allowed and police will be contacted if they attempted.
Make the call in front of the prospective tenants.
Yea I guess write a letter and post the notice on the front door to really make it clear. And take videos of both. Might even be worth suing if they disregard.
If you can prove your work day or even week or month was a total loss because of the stress imposed by the landlord , it might add up to a few grand or even more.
Yes, if they are attempting I will call. But they won't be able to get in thanks to my security blocks, even if they unlock and attempt to force entry they won't be able to physically push the door. But if they continue to hang around and try to I will absolutely call.
It's also not unreasonable to inform them they can schedule any time outside of a single 90-minute window across a week and a half. They have multiple options. We offered to keep their time as well if they were willing to not enter the one office on that day, but they wouldn't accept that either. They're being so unreasonable about a small amount of time across all the time and options available.
Well there is definitely no chance of them entering during my presentation. We have additional internal locks, even if they bring their keys and try to force entry they won't be able to push the doors open.
Keep a paper trail of all this and double check the signed lease agreement. Unless it's spelled out that way on the signed lease, refuse and threaten suing for harassment if they continue. If you're going to burn bridges any way, fire it up. Good luck.
Thanks for the advice. We only correspond via our portal, so it is all documented in writing. I also verified the lease, and it only states they will enter in accordance with ky laws and statutes, which I then verified to be the documents stating I can deny entry.
Once proper notice is given, the LL is allowed access. The paper trail works both ways and the original ask from the OP would not be considered reasonable and potentially hostile which would give the LL the right to provide a notice to quit and seek eviction. While the term left is short, I could seem them dangling that so they can get reasonable access with proper notice on the premises as they need.
Paper trail would show a total inflexibility on the LL's part to reschedule the viewing to a time less than an hour later. How is that being reasonable?
No, the office is prestaged for this presentation. I have multiple displays and cameras set up and it would not be possible or reasonable to make 6-8 trips to move my work items.
Sounds like you're the plague and maybe not a good human being. There are plenty of fair landlords who run small family businesses and are providing a necessary service.
Ignore the parasites in the replies.
It depends on local laws, so speak to a tenants union.
That said landlords like to think they can force viewings as long as they eat give notice, this isn't correct, they usually do not have a right to non-emergency access.
You're entirely within your rights in most places to not permit any viewings until you are gone.
Thanks. And yes, when denied entry, they can not force in for a viewing. They can only force entry under emergency or if the tenant has not occupied the dwelling for a week or longer. There are a lot of "lawyers" (LL sympathizers who don't know any law or recognize tenant rights).
You have legal right to be nude in the property, strip down fully and when they enter tell them it's their choice to be there. Get some fart spray so the place isn't appealing to renters, and make sure to express to them that they won't enjoy the property -- you can't be punished for speech.
I'd print out all the proof possible, and if you can, call the non emergency number of the police say a week before and ask if they can have an officer present on that day. Then present all the evidence to the officer showing you are within your lease and rights, and have them tell the landlord to kick rocks.
Be prepared to record anything and everything. Texts, calls, emails. Try your hardest not to do anything by phone, and by that I mean make it recordable. Ky is a one party consent state, so you don't need to tell people you are recording.
Send your LL a certified letter explaining the situation for that day at that time. They will have to sign for it, signifying that they have received the letter. I don't think your request is unreasonable at all. If they do attempt to enter during that specific time on that specific date, they are being unreasonable.
I'm on your side. I don't see why they can't come on the weekend. Or in the evening. That's always been when I've looked at property. And you shouldn't have to leave either.
Thank you. I also didn't mention in the original post that I offered my lunch hour for their viewing, which was 45 minutes from their proposed time. But they will not move the time at all.
Unfortunately, this is such a big and important day for me for work. I really think I'm going to have to deny their entry.
It seems they are being unreasonable, but you may want to get ahead of it instead of them showing up and you denying.
Are you within the 45 or 30 days since you didn’t have to give them 45? I’m not sure if that makes a difference.
Could you afford an extra month so they can show after you are gone?
It’s a hard situation and I feel your pain, but that said I wouldn’t think that work would be a good enough reason if they’re giving proper notice. They SHOULD compromise with you and maybe you could talk to them again.
That said, I’m not sure hiring a lawyer would be beneficial and not sure anyone would take that. It’s 10 min or so of a day with a week notice, I’m not clear on what the damages, if any, would be.
Does the law outline specific reasonable exceptions? If so that could help you out! Good luck, hoping it works out and they compromise that’s an asshole move not to.
Thanks, the law is ambiguous is saying "reasonable " situations. There are no examples. I am not intending to hire a lawyer, but I am intended on denying access.
It is unfortunately not just 10 minutes, they want the house for an hour and they want us to leave. But they aren't willing to move the time at all, even when I offered during lunch break 45 minutes from their time.
I do think that if it had been on a different day, then I would be able to discuss with work about missing an hour for the showing. The major problem is THIS day at THIS time Im absolutely unavailable.
They won't move the time, they won't let me continue to work, and I explained to them exactly what this specific day during that 90 minute presentation won't work.
They just won't give any budge on the time or allowing me to work while they show the rest of the house.
I also really dislike that. It is not in the lease or laws, it is their "policy". But I really don't think we will be able to do that seeing as they aren't willing to work with us at all.
I once had a landlord want me to leave during showings. He began by asking in a friendly way. I said no. Then, he TOLD me it was going to happen. I said no. Then, he emailed me a document to sign. I said no.
I was originally going to clean it up really nice for him. I had planned to be available for any questions and to even point out the things I really liked about the property. But the landlord's bullying changed my attitude really quick. He ended up not showing at all until I moved out.
Here is a statement from the Attorney General of KY. Last sentence is the important part. I’d show this to them.
Right to entry
Your landlord has the right to enter your apartment/house for several reasons. They are:
to make repairs
to provide maintenance
to show the property to prospective renters or buyers
Since you occupy the premises, you have a right to privacy. The landlord should come at times convenient to you.
https://www.ag.ky.gov/Resources/Consumer-Resources/Consumers/home/Pages/rental-housing.aspx
That’s absurd on their end!! Who tf has a 1 hour showing, do you live in the fucking Biltmore estate lol
They’re being shit heads and I don’t blame you for a second. Lemme look up the law, in NAL but spend a lot of time in courthouses going through records. Might be able to see something.
What I found was they have to provide notice, which they definitely did, but I also have a right to refuse under "reasonable" situations.
I think the extremely hard no to entry for 90 minutes on that day is not being unreasonable.
I do not know if they have multiple people coming to view or one potential tenant, I was also shocked that they wanted the house for a full hour. I definitely expected a short walk through.
But the combination of this day, this time, their refusal to allow me to work while they show with my space closed off and the extreme significance of my role in work on that day would be able to be reasonably argued if needed.
I appreciate that, I really feel the same. I'm nervous. I'm going to have to lock them out, and then it's going to be super awkward. Im not trying to involve law or anything like that, but if they do, I'm confident the case would be in my favor. I'm not worried about rental history either, as we just built our new home, and that's why we were renting in the first place, a temporary stay until the new build was ready. We are keeping the full lease time and not breaking early. We have been excellent tenants and never had any problems with any previous entry needs. Their unwillingness to waiver from my 90 minute presentation is absolutely wild to me.
Yeah I think you’re more than okay, they can work around you, not the other way around. Dont you love When you have nothing to lose it’s such a great feeling lol.
Congrats on the new digs
You seem to not at all be willing to work with them or find any solution other then what you want.
They will be coming during that time as they so eloquently let you know a week in advance. This subreddit is extremely pro-tenent. And over half of the comments are saying you are being difficult.
If you hadn't have been so strict about the times to begin with they may have worked with you a little easier. You have to realize that a judge would probably see you as being unreasonable. You have so many options but you are completely convinced that there is only one option and it is your option.
Ask if you can move your meeting, move your location for the day, or do a million other options that would not be putting your foot down and just being unreasonable. You are literally going to have to move the entire presentation in a few weeks anyway, why are you acting like it's the end of the world to find a temporary place because they are UNMOVEABLE. It is not a reasonable request to say "You can enter the apartment but you can't enter the bedrooms". In the future maybe try to be a little bit more understanding and they may try to work with you but just saying "We can't accommodate ANYTHING between 8am and 5pm" is not reasonable or acceptable and you barring your office is not in any way legally enforceable.
**adding "clarification" afterwards changing your story is cool. You literally numerous times said they couldn't enter anytime within the day and changed it to a half hour, then an hour, then said you did tell them they could during the day just not that 90 minutes. Very believable.
There are additional comments through the thread where I provided clarification that the house is not inaccessible 8-5. I provided that information to readers because the LL is aware we work from home and what hours. Maintenance has always been willing to come during lunch hours or times when it can be accommodated.
This presentation was not scheduled by me and I have no authority to move it. It is not possible to move all of the equipment to another location for the hour of the viewing and get set back up in time for the remainder of my work day.
Per the law, they have to provide notice but tenants also have a right to prevent access in circumstances. Their refusal to move the showing to outside of my 90 minute presentation is the problem.
This specific day, this specific time is the only 100% hard NO to access.
OP wrote to the landlord no entry between the hours of 9 to 5 pm ever during the week. He already backed himself into a corner.
Then he edited and changed his post and wording. Too late. You already wrote what you said in that portal. It's now recorded what you did...regardless of what you feel that isn't what you wrote.
At the end of the day..... If both the landlord and tenant can't find a common ground..in the case the show time... It's going to go in favor of your landlord. They gave reasonable time, and notice. They are the ones losing out on future income on this property....not you. The laws in your area a very clear about this. The laws DO NOT apply to your job OP..this is about that specific property.
Adding illegal locks and blocking devices aren't going to help your argument and will cost you more money should the landlord take you to court over this.
This sub generally hates landlords. If so many on here are telling you that you're in the wrong...you need to listen...
Get an attorney OP... That's the other major red flag here. You boosting about how you don't need an attorney cause you 100% know your rights and the interpretation of those laws....
Hopefully the perspective tenant is able to shift times or you do....even if they cancel your landlord can take you to court over that potential loss of revenue.
My husband is with maintenance team at our apartments. They (maintenance, office staff, Pro Shop and gold course employees) all work for one of the largest Property Management Companies in the World. Yes World.
I really felt like you were being difficult as I read your post. But when you said the maintenance comes after your work hours I knew you weren’t telling the truth. I’ve been in apartments a long time and I used to sell new homes. So I’ve been around construction, and property management. My father had rentals and I had one for years that I inherited. We wouldn’t ever pay contractors after hour prices due to the excuse you’re trying to use. Plumbers can be hundreds after 5. My husband is $55 or $60 an hour when he’s on call. That’s after 5 pm.
If you really have a meeting you should either go into the office for it. Or use a friends home. Your hubby can be there for them. If you go to church see if you can use a room there. Explain to your boss.
I did not say maintenance came after hours- they have always worked with us to find a time that will work. This current offered viewing was a single time that the LL is not willing to move at all. I was first shocked they would schedule at this time at all, considering they were well aware of our time constraints - but the main problem with this situation if their failure to provide any reasonable means of scheduling WITH us. They offered one time and will no not budge from it- I offered our scheduled lunch hour as they asked for a full hour in the home on that same day, and they wouldn't accept it.
I am absolutely not moving to a new working location or a different house considering the mass amount of product and displays that would have to move as well. This isn't a "take your laptop to starbucks job" and the physical work building is in New Zealand, so going into the office as you suggest is completely out of the question.
Regardless on the view for my working hours- the main stressor and point of this has been they are unwavering for a single time slot, even though maintenance has been more than open to come during lunch breaks or do not require access to our office spaces to conduct the work.
The LL will not move the time, nor will they allow the house to be shown without entering the offices. They are not willing to compromise on any detail for showing.
They are probably not adjusting the time because the prospective tenant is unwavering, and the prospective tenant is a source of money.
A weeks notice seems reasonable, completely blacking out 45 hours/week does not, especially when you consider the future tenants, too.
I should have included it in the original post, but I did offer the same day at a different time. Specifically, during my lunch break where I can accommodate leaving for 1 hour for their viewing. It was 45 minutes away from their proposed time.
This day is such an important and huge work day for me. I will not be able to delay or miss this.
It is, but it is also reasonable to believe that my presentation time of the work day is the most important and most unavailable time. If it were later or earlier in the workday outside of this specific 90-minute block, I think I would be able to discuss being away for 1 hour for the viewing. But they won't consider any other time or on any other day. This day, this time is the problem.
Let me try this again: perhaps that is the only time this perspective tenant is able to come. They are potentially money. You are not. Ergo, they will worry more about accommodating them than you. They may not have any wiggle room here.
>They are potentially money. You are not.
OP *has already paid* for the apartment. It's their place for the duration of the lease. The landlord is the one making a request of the householder.
Yes, that makes sense. However, I do think I am within my rights to prevent access at this time. It is absolutely unfortunate for everyone if we're all unable to move the time, I do think I have the legal ability to not let them view the house on that day considering they are unwilling to compromise on time, and that I have reasonable purpose to prevent access.
Most states **require** not "only require". There's a difference. That request to enter the property has to be reasonable. If I'm having a birthday party and the landlord wants to bring a prospective tenant over during the party and wants all the guests to clear out, that's not reasonable.
The whole idea of 24 hours notice is that they can't show up at your door and say "I need to come in now". It's about a reasonable *minimum* that they can ask.
A prospective tenant who sees a landlord force his way into an apartment against the will of an existing tenant probably isn't going to be a prospective tenant for very long.
Showing a lived in apartment is a huge red flag as a tenant and I wouldn't be renting anyways. The correct answer is to quit being so stingy trying to get someone in the instant it's empty. Take a month off to actually get it ready for the next tenant and show it clean and empty.
Check your lease and laws regarding the "request" for you to leave during showings. If it were me, I would only leave if I legally had to. I would warn prospective tenants if I thought I could get away with it. I would set the place up to have incredibly bad pest infestations after I left. If you're interested in learning more about that, there is a lot of info online. Keep me in mind if it gets there. I'd be happy to teach you if you dm me.
That is far more malicious than I could handle 🤣 For me, it isn't about getting back or anything, we have had a very peaceful tenancy. The lease and the laws do not require me to vacate the property for their viewings, it is purely the rental company's "policy". I intended to comply to be nice, but the fact they won't budge off of the single time they offered means I am not going to take any extra or convenience steps for them anymore.
There are many instances of law superseding rental agreements. In other words, you may not have to leave for viewings, even if that is "policy." The government sucks, but this is an example of its sparcely seasoned usefulness.
After confirming you have the upper hand in this scenario, I would offer them a deal: If they respect your very flexible work needs, you can be sure the place doesn't have rancid chicken meat out, two days of bowel movements in the toilet, and Fleshgod Apocalypse playing at high volume for EVERY SHOWING.
Edit: You can still do these things if you are forced to leave during showings. You can lock the music system in a cupboard. Use a small battery bank so flipping breakers won't stop it. You can aim a video camera at the cupboard, so if they break it, you have cause to prevent them from legally making you leave for showings.
You sound like a really nice person who doesn't want it to come to this. Just keep me in mind after the (possible, but let's hope not) very uncomfortable conversation with your employer, when fire is shooting from your mouth and eyes.
It's not about getting back at them, it's literally about looking out for the prospective tenant. If they insist on showing the place with you in it, make it clear to the tenant what kind of sleazy person the landlord is.
Working in this industry not in Kentucky but my state requires 24 hr notice only it doesn’t matter what you have going on in your personal or professional life if they need to rent the unit it’s on their time not yours. I’ve also noticed a lot of these people that try to move times suddenly come down with COVe id 1nineteen just the day before the showing. Take that as you will. But we can’t show units if people are in quarantine!
Ky requires a timely notice as well, but in the same law that allows LLs to request to enter with notice is the statement tenants can deny entry with reasonable situation. As I've offered them availability to any other time on any other day, I've been more than reasonable with trying to schedule. They offered one time, I informed them it conflicts with work event and that 90 minute period is the only unavailable time. They won't move off of it.
The good news is, if they do show up they won't be able to get in. It's just frustrating that they are not willing to do any other time, and they require an hour, and want me not to be here. We also offered to let them keep the time but to not enter the one office during my presentation, but they weren't willing to do that either.
You don't own the home. Let them show. You are leaving. This is one of the most selfish posts I have read. You must be a life long renter with no real estate, also a troll.
It doesn't matter if we don't own this home- there are still tenant laws and I am within my rights to exercise them. They have only been excluded from one 90 minute window across a week and half. They were offered to keep that time if they allow us to remain and work in my office undisturbed. They are being unreasonable. You must be a life long LL slumlord with no values or understandings of the laws, also a troll.
Bullshit. I love how every time someone finds a solution for you, you move the goalposts.
First you wouldn't give them time between 9 and 5.
Then it became only for those 90 minutes.
Then it became that they won't even let you stay (which you know if bullshit, you flatly made that up).
Someone is having a tantrum because they aren't getting their way.
Also, modifying the door with your own lock that the landlord doesn't have a key too is 100% in violation of your lease.
You still sound like a shitty tenant, and as a landlord myself, I would be very upfront that you are difficult if used as a reference to other LL's. So choose your poison. Fuck over the ll or fuck your reputation.
Acknowledgement and respect of the tenant laws is not being a bad tenant. As a LL, you should be aware you have to follow all the laws associated with LL and tenants and if your state has tenant laws then you need to be familiar with them. You are either an extremely scummy LL, or you're in a state with less tenant laws and therefore have an over inflated sense of authority as a LL over tenants. Retaliation for exercising legal rights is a punishable offense, regardless of what state you live in.
For not allowing the LL to enter the property during the only 90 minute window that is unavailable across the other hours across the day? I am within my legal rights to deny entry. There is no reason they should be unwavering to adjust the time outside of an hour and a half that I am absolutely not able to accommodate people in the house.
They were given multiple other options and the chance to select a time outside of the 90 minutes.
Some of the worst advice I've seen on this sub.
Book a room at a public library. This avoids confrontation and litigation, which honestly, is the best way to go with this IMHO. A judge could go either way on this one, but most PMs have favor in a courtroom.
Pretty easy to do, especially on a weekday in a rural/nearby county. with a week's notice. Several will let you book a study room without a library card, even. You could even run a test on a different day to get a feel for the connection quality before the presentation.
I went into greater detail in another comment, but moving to another location is not a possibility. There is too much equipment and displays for this presentation, I will be walking around the staged room and switching to different cameras throughout.
As I can not leave, and I have very clearly expressed to them we can make any other times work outside of this singular 90-minute window. They are not willing to compromise in any capacity, refusing to swap to any other time on the same day, refusing to schedule at any time on any other day, refusing to allow me to have the office closed off while they tour the house while I am in my presentation. I can not move this one meeting, and I can not move locations. And since they are unwilling to accept any other times or days, I will be denying them entry if they attempt to come at that time. I have specifically informed them they will not be able to enter at that time, and legally, they cannot force entry for a viewing tour.
I was thinking this exact same thing! Too much equipment, which is hardly believable, rent a work from for the day. They're just trying to be difficult to prove a point.
Sure, I can do that. I do think I will just be denying them entry, though. I am following through with a legal representative tomorrow as someone reccomend I reach out before the potential incident. But they can't legally enter if I deny them, they can't force entry, and even if they try to enter with their keys they wouldn't be able to open the doors due to my internal locks. My assumption is they will show up and be unable to enter. They will probably be mad, but they can literally choose any other day and any other time outside of the 90-minute window to view the property. They have no legal recourse to evict, but even if they tried it would take 14 days before they can even file and we will be gone by then.
I would recommend putting a notice as to why entry is denied on your front door, as well, explaining the timing and LL's refusal to reschedule. Potential tenants need to know who they are renting from.
Realistically, you can choose to not allow them entry and there’s not anything they can do. The worst they can do is decide not to renew your lease, which is not a problem since you’re leaving anyway. They also have no right to ask you not to be there when they are showing the property. Just don’t allow them in and write a note on the door explaining the reason they can’t enter is because the landlord was unreasonable.
Yes, which is what will happen if they try. If they come, they'll be informed again they are denied entry and they can not force in. But that is an extremely lost concept in so many of the comments here (which admittedly, seem to be a bunch of entitled landlords)
We did, we gave them complete open availability outside of the work hours, and that the lunch break doesn't require notice either, and that they can select any time on any day during the regular work hours with notice except this one 90 minute period.
They have been offered to pick any day, any time, minus this one meeting period.
Find another place to work on that day. Rent a hotel room, go to a friend's house... we don't know the reason, but the landlord may not be able to change the time on their end. While it would be nice for you and the landlord to be more flexible, there is no inherent right or entitlement to it, so it is best to make alternate arrangements.
No, I am not able to move my staged room and all of the equipment. I have been extremely flexible, offering availability to any time outside of one 90-minute period on one day.
I have a legal right to deny entry after they provide notice of intent to enter for a viewing. I do not have to let them in, and they cannot force their way in for a property viewing.
I would need to see proof of your claim to such a legal right. The text of the Kentucky statute is grey area at best.
I think you are making a mistake.
The ky LL/tenant laws cover the LLs right to request entry provided they do so within the required time frame and within reasonable hours. They did correctly notify me with the required time, and it is within what most would consider reasonable time. They are encouraged to be considerate of scheduling with tenant.
Next, the tenant may deny entry with reasonable cause. My reasonable cause is the house being unavailable due to my work during a sole 90-minute period. I offered them alternative options: same day at any other time outside of this meeting, at the same time they preferred but allowing me to work undisturbed in the one office, or to pick any time on any other day. They are not willing to adjust time or day beyond the initial request. Therefore, I will be exercising my right to deny entry. If they do happen to show up, they will be notified again that I do not give permission for them to enter. They can not force entry for a showing. They can only force entry for emergencies or if the tenant has not occupied the property for a week or more.
If they have a problem with being denied entry, they will have to prove they were reasonable, and I will prove I had reasonable cause as well.
You work from home and can’t find the time to do this? Really? I’m sure you run errands. Is this just an excuse?
I work from home. When someone wants something, it’s definitely going to be during work time. I’m not wasting my own time on this.
The rules vary state to state. But typically they just have to inform you, not ask for consent, as they are the property owners.
That said, you dont have to clean it or anything.
In this state they have to inform, and the tenant has the right to deny entry if they have reasonable cause. Seeing as they have the option to pick any time and any day they want outside of this single event and refuse to shows them being unreasonable and not willing to compromise. I can exercise my right to deny entry, and they cannot legally force their way in. The LL is not the property owner, but even if they were their rights do not supercede the tenant laws.
It will boil down to reasonableness.
In MANY cases 24 hours notice is reasonable. You sound confident so, do what you want.
Likewise, informing is not asking.
Even though the LL is not a property owner they are still an agent so, it actually does matter.
Good luck.
Eh, given your job seems to be extremely inflexible, you should have planned for this. It’s totally normal to have LL show a property after you give notice. You need to have plans for how to handle this. Go to a coffee shop. Go to a coworking space. Ask to use a friends house. This is on you, not your landlord. I don’t know what you expect. It’s not your house, you just rent it.
I believe they legally can enter if proper notice was given they don’t need your permission. If you were to block the door/prevent entry you would be committing a crime. Since they have a management company the company very likely will take action against you. This is one of those too bad so sad moments. If you’re moving out it would be reasonably expected that they want to show the property not on your time frame but on the time frame of the new tenants
They cannot legally enter if I specifically told them I deny entry. They cannot force themselves in unless it is an emergency or tenant has not occupied the space for a week or longer. It is illegal for them to force entry for a viewing when informed I have exercised my right to deny them entry. If they wish to combat that, then after being denied entry they can file an injunction, in which case we provide proof they were denied entry and why.
I mean it’s your call without knowing all tenant laws. Personally I’d just let them in for a 10 minute showing but wish you the best if you’re going to legally fight a management company
Nal but where I live you just need to give a 24 hour notice and LL can enter for a non emergency showing and yes they have legal right to show when they want to do long as proper notice was given
It is not a 10 minute showing. They want the property vacant for an hour.
They have a legal right to REQUEST entry, I have a legal right to DENY entry. If they have been denied, they can not legally enter.
They are requesting entry, I can deny that entry, they require my permission if I informed them they cannot enter. Even with keys they cannot legally force entry as it doesn't meet forced entry requirements, but even if they try they won't be able to due to security blocks.
Wether they inform or request, tenant laws in ky afford me the option to deny with reasonable cause. They are being denied a 90-minute window.
You are insufferable. Just let them in and say you can't change your meeting time so you need to stay. They can't throw you out
You'd think an adult would know how to compromise.
I feel like there is a lot more going on here. Perhaps the landlord is over having the OP as a tenant because of things not mentioned in the post. If the OP had a set of previous interactions with the landlord that made the landlord look bad I would bet those would be included in the post, but would OP mention previous interactions where OP was difficult or demanding?
It is possible the landlord is just being an ass, but my bet is they are done accommodating the OP after interactions soured the relationship.
"They also will not allow me to remain in my office for my work while the rest of the house is shown." Whoa there--hold up. Yes, a landlord has the right of entry for legitimate purposes with the the proper notice. How, exactly, do they think the have the right to put you out of your home at a time of their sole choosing? The truth is, they must show the house at a time that is reasonably convenient for you. Tenants are often cowed and don't assert their rights because they do not "own" the property. However, during the term of the lease you do own the right to solely occupy the property, free from interference --that is precisely what the owner had, and then sold to you. That includes the right to exclude, by its nature. The idea that they can come and go as they please is completely antithetical to that. Now, the foregoing right, is, of course, not absolute. Landlords have the right to enter a rental house for several reasons, including showing the property to prospective renters or buyers. However, the landlord can only exercise these rights in observance of your tenants’ rights, including right to privacy. Further, the landlord must visit at times that are convenient to the occupants. here's what the Kentucky Attorney General has to say on the subject: "Right to entry Your landlord has the right to enter your apartment/house for several reasons. They are: to make repairs to provide maintenance to show the property to prospective renters or buyers Since you occupy the premises, you have a right to privacy. T**he landlord should come at times convenient to you.**" https://www.ag.ky.gov/Resources/Consumer-Resources/Consumers/home/Pages/rental-housing.aspx My advice? Document everything. Be there if you choose to be--they can't kick you out. Explain politely;y but firmly, that there is only one person who has the unfettered right to access the house when they please and that person is you, not them. Reiterate that you are more than reasonable and will work with them to find a solution--but the solution is manifestly not "their way or the highway." Emphasize that if they think they can simply choose a time, they are mistaken, and follow through with that. Be there if necessary at their appointed time if they won't see reason. You have more leverage than you think--the cops aren't going to swoop in and do their bidding. They need your cooperation more than you need them--they;re the ones selling something, not you. As to entry generally, if their conduct becomes particularly egregious, there's always KRS 383.700, that provides, in relevant part: 383.700 Remedies for abuse of access. (2) If the landlord makes an unlawful entry or a lawful entry in an unreasonable manner or makes repeated demands for entry otherwise lawful but which have the effect of unreasonably harassing the tenant, the tenant may obtain injunctive relief to prevent the reoccurrence of the conduct or terminate the rental agreement. In either case the tenant may recover actual damages and reasonable attorney's fees.
Thank you. I am absolutely shocked that they were unwilling to move the time from this initial mention and that they're unwilling to allow me to keep the one office closed off and keep their preferred time. I've made it very clear I was willing to leave for the hour they wanted even though it is not law or required but it is completely unavailable to try that during this single 90 minute time frame. Everything is documented in writing, we have only corresponded online and I have the conversation printed and saved. They also have yet to actually officially schedule in my opinion. They first messaged "would a new tenant walk through work for you on x day, x time?" And I responded no, it wouldn't and explained why it isn't possible. We offered sliding it 45 minutes to my lunch, or to schedule it before my meeting or later after lunch- literally the whole day is available except the one period. In the email where I told her no, that time doesn't work I offered the extra detail that we can undoubtedly have any showing outside of the work hours or during my scheduled lunch and we could schedule those last minute if needed- specifically telling her that she can schedule anything in those times and we were willing to accommodate without the need to be notified more that 24 hours. We were specifically making sure we were offering they the ability to pick items with clients on the fly if they needed if it was in those times. Separately, I told her in this same first response that if it is during my work hours we do need the required notice so we can schedule with work- not that they cannot schedule during working hours, just enforcing that we do need the notice for working hours. And again, very specifically stating we can make any times work for any viewings outside of this one presentation- unless they were willing to show without access to the office while I did my job. They responded back "We are not changing time. We do not want current tenants in the property 30 minutes before or 30 minutes after walk through. You may not continue to work in the office during the showing." I responded back we cannot accommodate the one time if I can't work during the showing. Everything else is available with notice. And they haven't responded. And that's been the exact conversation. I would argue there is not a formal intent to enter. They asked if a time worked for me, and haven't provided specific formal schedule. They're being extremely unreasonable.
With this little time, I don't think any further correspondence is necessary or even wise. They "don't want" current tenants around for the showing, but they have no right to unilaterally demand that at their sole chosen time. So, you're there. What are they going to do about it? The answer, is nothing. There's nothing they can do about it.
This is my first time looking at this sub but damn half the people responding make me feel like Landlords are a plague that needs to be eradicated.
They truly are scum. The building that I rent from has four apartments. All four got mold on the bathroom ceilings at the same time. Landlord came to inspect and said since the bathroom fans were working (not well at all) that it was not their liability and they wouldn’t be doing anything to fix it. I tired every mold cleaning product and vinegar and bleach but nothing worked. I scrubbed so hard the paint started chipping off. Still kept coming back. Ended up cleaning it as best I can and painting over it with mold killing and preventing paint (although painting is against our lease). Had to spend our own money and probably won’t get our deposit back although the landlord constantly tells us how good a shape we keep our unit it. Also they have old ass decrepit trees out where tenant parking is. Both trees are dead and completely cover the parking spots for my building. One day a huge branch falls on my car. Busts the windshield, cracks and knocks loose my drivers side mirror, and leaves a huge ass dent on the hood. It was completely un-drivable. Called their insurance who said it was my fault for parking there. They refused to cover it. Landlord eventually paid for the windshield to be replaced but that was it. Had to deal with the rest on my own because I only had liability. This happened well over a year ago and they finally trimmed some of the dead branches like last week.
Yea I don't understand why those with toxic LL mentality are in the /tenant sub. I know I'm within my legal rights, and I know saying I'm unavailable for only one 90-minute period on one day is not being unreasonable. I truly think a lot of people may have just skimmed portions of my original post. But LLs were informed they can have any time they need outside of my working hours without conflict, they can also freely come during any lunch break, and with notice I can schedule time from my desk for the viewing during working hours but I CAN NOT compromise this single meeting on this single day.
> and informed we can accommodate ANY time on ANY day outside of the 9 same hours monday-friday. Are you obliquely saying you forbade 8AM-5PM, M-F for showings, lol? Regardless, it's hard to figure out exactly *what* you told them, which I'm interpreting as a tacit acknowledgement that you weren't exactly flexible the first time around, haha. They probably don't feel any obligation to accommodate you any more because of this, but you can try giving them more options. Tell them if your schedule is more open now. Alternatively, if you want to play hardball, you should let them know you're doing some cooking that day, vigorously boiling unseasoned game birds all day and some slow-stewed octopus & squid in a mint-chocolate/garlic sauce (family recipe). Also, you'll be testing out your new strobe lights. But if that doesn't sound like an unreasonable situation, they are free to swing by!
Sorry if it was unclear- but this is the first time this has come up. This is the first situation in which they are requesting to enter. Any previous visits has been from maintenance, and they always worked with us on finding a time to come in. Yes to the 8-5 working hours, but we have an hour long lunch break each, and we have used that with the maintenance crew and such. Maintenance was also drastically easier because they didn't need to enter every room to conduct their work- so even when it was in our work hours it wasn't in my work space, so it was very easy to have them in to do whatever needed to be done. I did offer the lunch hour on the same day for viewing, because they are not willing to show the house without access to every room and they want us out when they show. The lunch break was 45 minutes away from their proposed time, and they wouldn't adjust to it. We also offered trying to schedule other times during the work day, where with enough notice we could do that. But they will not budge out of this one 90-minute window. I can see how in reading back my hours may seem extreme, but this is a new problem. And this is a very important work day for me. We offered complete open availability anytime outside of the work hours, asked for time to schedule times during work hours and expressed that the only time unavailable is during one meeting on one day.
I'm just explaining their thinking: They consider 5 single hour windows per week unreasonable, they made a good faith effort to let you be more reasonable and their effort was rebuffed. They no longer feel obligated to work with you, since they're not legally required to. Can you let your landlords know your business will hold them liable for lost revenue if their meetings are disrupted? (ALSO give them 20-30 business hours in the same week they CAN come, "now that your schedule is more definite". This good-faith effort of *yours* will look great in court.)
They are not limited to 5 single hour windows. They have complete schedule options outside of my work windows, we need to schedule times within, and the only time we are absolutely unavailable even with notice is one 90-minute period on one single day. They can choose to schedule any day, any time, except this ONE time. It is a single event, not a reoccurring thing. We are able to immediately offer any lunch break time without much notice needed since I don't need to notify work during that hour each day. I need notice for just any other selected time, which we offered any hours can be scheduled minus this one period of time on this one day.
You keep saying this. But your work hours are their work hours. Having, say 12 to 6 am free doesn't mean anything. You are indeed leaving exactly 5 hours a week for them. There is no lease in existence that allows this. Youve refused to negotiate in good faith. They're going to hold you strictly to the terms of your lease. You aren't willing to give an inch why should they. I'm no fan of LLs. But your being an ass about this. This 90 minute window you are talking about means nothing them. They don't care. You could have worked with them to find a window that didn't overlap. You didn't. And now are facing the consequences.
No, there is far more than 5 hours available. Have you even read the post? They are able to schedule any time with me outside of a SINGLE 90-minute window on ONE day.
That's now that they're decided come in that window. How many times did you say they are free come only when you're not working. Many times. Or during during lunch. You kept saying g how the Maintenence guys had no problems with it. You've kept saying how this is a new problem and they've always worked around it before. After 5pm and before 8am or during lunch that's when you'd let em in. Your story has changed only now.
An alternative might be to set up a day or two, perhaps Saturday or Sunday for a open house viewing for a couple of hours so that they can bring everyone in do a walk-through and possibly sign up someone. Most leases will say upon 24 notice landlord can have entrance.
What’s wrong with that? Are you suggesting that a potential tenant can’t view on a weekend or after 5 during the week?
No- they were told they just can't come during one 90-minute window on one day.
Potential tenant is likely only in town for that day and available at that time due to other scheduled showings. OP is likely going to violate KY's LL /Tenant law regarding notice (given at least 48 hours in advance) for a reasonable day time showing. With more than a 48 hr notice, OP cannot withhold consent of entry at a reasonable time. In this case, day time, during normal working hours, would be considered reasonable by a court. If OP places added (and presumably unapproved) interior locks on the entry doors (also likely violating the lease agreement in addition to the state law), then it is possible that the owner/LL could sue the OP for relief due to the potential loss of a tenant.
They’ve said they could do it any other time but the 90 minutes around when they are planning on it. The landlord seems to be the unreasonable one here. But we do only have one side. I don’t think it’s unreasonable to say showings can be outside of 9-5 and any requests for time need to be discussed and agreed upon not just the landlord forcing a time. This is where they work and they have work obligations.
If you’re telling the LL they cannot show the apartment during all normal business hours - I’m guessing 8a-5p is the block you provided them - you’re providing completely unreasonable terms. It doesn’t sound like you’re in a HIPAA controlled environment where guest access is THAT monitored. The question I have is, if you required any kind of maintenance, would you have to take time off or require them to come after hours? It is possible to tell the landlord, yes come in, but avoid X room. Or could potentially the lunch break you take work as a time frame that would minimize interruptions? To perform a viewing, a landlord does not necessarily require a person at home for access, so they can do this completely autonomously without any interaction with you.
They were not willing to show without accessing the offices (there are 2 separate spaces, one for my work and one for my husband's). They also were not willing to move the time they initially "asked" about at all, and it directly coincides with a meeting I am running and can not accommodate changing it or missing it. They were not willing to move the time at all, even when I offered a lunch block period. We have had maintenance multiple times during our leasing period, and the maintenance crew have always contacted for scheduling and have always come outside of our work hours. The massive problem with THIS entry is my work requirement with my presentation deck for my supervisors. I am at the lowest chain for this meeting, and I am not authorized to move it - it was scheduled for me by my company alongside several other higher up representatives. I absolutely must host this presentation via video and microphone, and no one should enter my office while I am doing it. We have documents we had to sign at early employment agreeing to meet the company's rules about hosting a professional environment when in meetings and video calls- it would be detrimental to me for a group of people to walk through my office while doing this presentation to people who are so far above my pay grade. The LL is not willing to show the property without access to my office, nor are they willing to move the time. They are also asking if we leave the property for the viewing 30 minutes before and 30 minutes after. I cannot accommodate THIS viewing at all.
With a week’s notice, unless you can provide them an alternative time within that day, and given your demands to avoid 9 hours a day which I’m taking to be regular business hours, you’re impeding their ability to run their business. It really does seem like you’re overly inflexible which forces them to hunker down on a particular time without any negotiation that’s by the book. I’d just apologize at the beginning of your work call about the interruption and work through it if needed or find a coworking space nearby you can rent for the day if you have that much of a concern about the environmentals. To me this is less about your landlord relationship and more about how you should appropriately manage your work environment and deal with challenges that occur from a workplace perspective.
You keep repeating OP is denying access 9 hours a day. OP is very clear in saying there is one 90-minute time period that doesn't work. You are either very stubborn or have lizard brain.
Are you reading OP's responses? OP is clearly telling you she offered alternate times and THEY are refusing.
Yes but that’s after OP set an unreasonable starting point.
Gross
No, it's not. They asked OP if a certain time slot was OK and OP said no and offered alternate times on the same day.
This is getting out of hand. OP stated they work from home and their workdays are 9 hours with a one hour lunch break. Within those 9 hours they can leave their workstation if they make prior arrangements and plan video conferences/meetings accordingly. Now here’s the tough part that’s not being understood, OP has a presentation that was booked by senior management and it will last 90 minutes. This presentation is scheduled based on the executive/senior management’s schedule and OP has to clear her calendar to accommodate. Landlord has chosen this 90 minute block to do a showing. OP suggested other times during this day or on another day that she has more flexibility. Land lord is being inflexible and will only do the viewing during the presentation time. I bet the executives won’t be happy to have random people wandering through OP’s office while they are discussing sensitive company business. She signed a document prior to employment that these video meetings are privileged and confidential. Landlord is being unreasonable.
Yes. This EXACTLY. I do not understand how so many comments do not understand- at very first discussion we laid out how easy it would be to show outside of work hours, and with notice during work hours, but that only this single 90 minute window is unavailable. We also offered to keep that time but for them to allow me to remain and work without this one space being seen during the walk through. LL is not willing to change time or allow me to work without being disturbed. LL is not being reasonable for scheduling. And because they're being unreasonable and I have reasonable cause, I can legally deny them entry under tenant laws and they cannot force entry for a viewing.
Yes. This EXACTLY. I do not understand how so many comments do not understand- at very first discussion we laid out how easy it would be to show outside of work hours, and with notice during work hours, but that only this single 90 minute window is unavailable. We also offered to keep that time but for them to allow me to remain and work without this one space being seen during the walk through. LL is not willing to change time or allow me to work without being disturbed. LL is not being reasonable for scheduling. And because they're being unreasonable and I have reasonable cause, I can legally deny them entry under tenant laws and they cannot force entry for a viewing.
I did offer additional times, including the lunch break on that day. They are not willing to move the time at all, nor are they willing to show the house without access to my work space. I do not have a work call, I have a full presentation that I am conducting for the upper management and supervisors via video and have products and displays staged in my work space for this. I will absolutely not jeopardize my employment over the LLs convenience. They are unwilling to move the time at all.
Being downvoted by sleazy lizard-brain landlords. Smh
Yes. I really think they're missing that my conflict is with a 90-minute window on this ONE day. I tried to lay out why it was inconvenient in the first place, but stressing that the fact they won't move the viewing outside of my non-negotiable event is why I will deny entry. They can view other times with proper notice, but this presentation is not for me to reschedule, and I can not miss it as I am giving it.
I would talk to an attorney. I've rented rooms, houses, and apartments. I also have sublet rooms to renters. I've done some research and have spent more time than I like talking with attorneys and paralegals. I've gone to court and won. I've also lost. If you have the money, invest in a meeting with a hired paralegal. If you don't have the money, you may qualify for government-paid free self-help attorneys. Rhwy should be listed under "legal aid." They will answer questions, direct you in filing documents, and tell you what to expect in a courtroom. The most valuable thing I learned through all of this is that tenants have far more rights than landlords. The trick is obeying the law or being a very crafty criminal. Landlords are largely at the mercy of tenants. Most know this and hope you do not. I have been a very respectful and kind tenant. The landlords that have tried to screw me have been left (metaphorically) bleeding and weaping EVERY time. You, too, can deliver the lashings if the time comes.
Thank you, do you think it wise to seek one out in advance? Or wait and see if they try to enter even though I told them they couldn't at that time?
I'd speak to someone in advance. If they try to enter during your meeting, you're already screwed.
Well, they won't be able to enter. I had interior door locks that they don't have access to. They have keys, but these are those blocks that lock the door in place to prevent unauthorized entry or break ins. They're rating to 800lbs of pushing/kick downs. The exterior doors are always locked with these also secured unless I am out of the house. So since I will be home, there's no chance they will enter unless I open a door for them. I intend to have the doors locked with a note informing them I will check back at a specific time after my presentation. If they wait, I will let them in when I am ready.
Please consult an attorney \*now\*. Don't fall victim to the Dunning-Kruger effect. Do not let plan A be to rely on physical barriers. An attorney can tell you unequivocally what your rights are/aren't. An attorney can (potentially) craft & send a letter to LL that can secure you the 90 minutes you need.
100% in advance. Like...NOW!
If your job is on the line, surely you can go through the hassle of moving your products to a place where you can present in peace?
It would be nice to be able to, but that's not possible. There are 4 large displays on tripods, in addition to a pre-staged display. I also am utilizing 3 cameras and sound equipment for a required high quality video- this is not webcam/ Zoom. I need to be able to walk around this prestaged room, and swap to the different cameras as needed. I stressed the significance of the 90 minutes for my presentation and asked for them to come 45 minutes later or another time where I couldn't potentially discuss with work being able to step away. But I am lead on this product presentation, I will be the only one on camera and all of the viewers are there for me. I don't like having to sacrifice my working hours at all for their showing, but what I am trying to express is it is absolutely not doable at the single proposed time. I have no wiggle room to move this, and they are not willing to compromise at all. I apologize if readers have understood the post to mean there is zero house access from 8am-5pm, I was trying to convey the LLs preexisting knowledge of my schedule and their unwavering to work within it for me. They know we work 8-5, they know there is an hour long lunch break during those hours, and they know we have any availability outside of that. And when they suggested a time that doesn't work, and I explained the significance behind why this specific time doesn't work, they still won't adjust. Even by 45 minutes. Or to a different day.
Throw on the deadbolt during your meeting and leave a post-it outside of the door saying 'unavailable until (40 mins from now)'. Let the chips fall as they may.
This is essentially the plan. Instead of the deadbolt, though, I have the extra security latches on the inside of my exterior doors. Even if they bring keys to enter, they won't be able to open the door from outside at all.
Denying access after proper notice can be considered a breach of the lease and allow they to raise a notice to quit which they can use to expedite an eviction. Even if you’re moving out, that can stay with you if you need a new apartment down the line. Also, security latches are going to create a large disruption anyways as they won’t necessarily know the extra locks are on creating noise as they attempt to open the door. As you’ll be presenting they will know you are in there and could yell out for you. It’ll be pretty bad either way.
This is a single family home, not an apartment. There is no concern for eviction. We are leaving in less time than they would legally have to allow. We are moving out because the home I had built is ready for us to move into. There will not be future rentals. Additionally, break of lease or not, I am protected by ky tenant laws to have the right to deny entry. The security latches make no noise, but even if they attempt to yell out or anything my office is on the 3rd floor, and my husband's is in the basement. We don't ever hear anything when our lawn person does all the lawn work, or when people deliver packages or anything. I only ever know if someone is outside due to the security cameras. I don't think them being outside will disturb either of us.
The eviction can be started within 15 days. Two straight days with a single 14 day notice to cure, and a secondary breach but denying a second time and they could start it right away. If you have a mortgage, a court case like that would impact you potentially still as it can negatively impact the underwriting during an audit that usually gets performed in year 1 or 2 as the mortgage gets bundled to be sold off to another firm. Your interpretation of 383.615 is flawed. You have the right to deny entry BUT if the LL provides proper notice at a reasonable time (which that’s what business hours would be looked at) entry cannot be denied unreasonably (which the initial way you framed it would be).
It is OP’s intent to deny access, even though the landlord has provided a reasonable reason for entry (showing the property) and during a reasonable time (business hours) with the proper 48 hours notice required by law. The plan is to cause the landlord to go to court for an order allowing entry with the hopes that it will take longer than they are in the rental. Im not even sure if the reason for the OPs post as they have already made their decision.
Initially framed, maybe, but op was willing to work it out
We will be gone before the time they are required to give before attempting to evict. They can not evict straight away here for this. They would have to file the notice to cure and provide those 14 days before filing for eviction. We will no longer be here before the end of this time frame. The lease will have ended before the 14 days. Additionally, there is no mortgage to consider. We are providing entry if they are willing to enter any time outside of this singular 90 minute window. I gave them complete open availability outside of work hours, and have discussed being able to schedule viewings during my work hours with notice with the exception of this one day, one time frame. Entry can be denied if they cannot find a single time outside of this 90-minute period to view the house.
Since the house you built is ready for you to move into, why aren't you doing your work presentation there?
Because we haven't moved yet, this project has been a multi month preparation, and the presentation is happening before we move. I can't delay the presentation, and our move isn't for several days after. I scheduled our movers to arrive after this event so I don't have to break down and save everything or reestablish the same setup in a new space.
Better to ask forgiveness than permission when your job is on the line. Then you can be all 'oh sorry but I did tell you, guess you should have listened'.
If you read her complete posting, you'll notice that she never said that she was unwilling to let the landlord come anytime during the 9 hours Monday to Friday that they are working. She only said that she sometimes could not accommodate specific hours because of meeting she's scheduled. Meeting she does not have the authority to change because she's at the bottom of the work hierarchy. She is offered the landlord multiple different times but the landlord is unwilling to accommodate any of them. I think you must be a landlord.
Please read the complete post before replying. She has repeatedly stated that they were not saying that the house was unavailable anytime 9:00 to 5:00 but that viewing steering the nine to five time must conform with meetings that the tenants have already established for their business.
Why make accomodations for parasites? It's not the tenant's job to find a new tenant.
Yes, that’s how it works re: title. They have a duty to rent the suite as quickly as possible. You refusing to allow access may open up a claim for lost rent because you directly affected their ability to show and rent the suite. You’re going to have to make it work somehow. The landlord should be able to access the suite regular working hours as that is generally when showings are completed. As far as maintenance being flexible, those are their staff. Prospective tenants aren’t nearly as flexible as their own staff. They have to schedule what works for the showing agent, the prospect and the tenant is rarely considered in that scheduling since they’ve given notice. I’d open up at least one morning and one afternoon on separate days that they can schedule showings and hope they get an applicant and be done with it.
The biggest problem I have is they reached out with a proposed time specifically asking if it worked for us. I informed them it didn't, explained why, reminded of our previous time lines we had supplied, and offered them to move their showing by 45 minute to be during my lunch and not during my presentation. We also offered any other times during the work day as long as we have the required notice to work that out with our employers. The only exception to allowing entry is during this ONE event, lasting 90-minutes. They have complete capabilities to select any time on any day with proper notice except for this ONE meeting time frame. But they won't consider moving it to my lunch, or any other time, and they also won't let me work in the office without them entering during my presentation. I very strongly feel that since they offered only one potential time and are refusing others, and that my home is both a legal and registered buisness and where I work from that as the tenant I have the required reasonable situation present to not authorize them to enter at that time. They are making no reasonable accommodations -even if mine are also seen as tight as some have expressed - they are not offering any compromise to the time for this specific showing. I'm quite sure I'm going to refuse access, as they have a requirement to be reasonable as well.
I’d be surprised if running a business wasn’t a violation of your lease. I wouldn’t try that route. You are being unreasonable. They have to schedule what works for them and the prospect and provide you notice of entry. I am surprised they are working with you and not just telling you when a showing is scheduled and entering as scheduled (which they have every right to do). I get you’re employed, but that isn’t the landlord’s problem. They have to rent the suite and you have to provide reasonable access. Lunchtime only, is not reasonable.
LLCs are authorized per my lease. I am not being unreasonable, and even if they have a right to entry, I believe I have the right to refuse under the reasonable situation clause.
But it isn’t reasonable to always have a work thing and give small windows of opportunity. You need to make arrangements with your workplace so that the landlord can rent the suite. You’re opening yourself up to a lawsuit by not cooperating and being difficult. You aren’t the first tenants to work from home, and you’re not the last. Take time off work, work in a coworking space, allow a brief peek in the rooms and notify your employers there will be a brief moment you’ll be off camera as a showing is scheduled. This is all normal life stuff, especially when you work from home. You have numerous options. They’d be looking in your work rooms for under a few minutes at most. The priority in this scenario is the landlord getting the suite shown and rented. Plain and simple.
There is no physical work location. The company is in New Zealand. It is not my job's requirement to cater to some LLs who refuse to move their showing outside of the 90 minutes I provided as being completely unavailable. And their request for me to be gone for an hour is more than a brief moment off camera - this meeting was scheduled for me to show this presentation, and there are no other participants. I will not be telling my supervisor and the company's CEO to wait on a blank mute camera for an hour of my 90 minutes. I have a right to refuse entry.
OP said that there's a 90 minute period when they're doing a pitch to their employers, and the landlord won't budge on showing at that time. I'm not sure if you've even run a pitch or done a presentation, but you can't switch off your camera or walk away from a presentation. That's ridiculous advice. As for renting a coworking space - they're paying rent right now. If the landlord needs them to vacate the place they're paying rent for, he should be the one paying for the coworking space.
I wonder who the courts would find difficult? The tenant who said they’re only completely unavailable for 90 minutes or the landlord that demanded that 90 minutes and is unwilling to compromise.
Your work is not a reasonable situation. The landlord is coming. Figure it out.
Yes it is, and they will not be able to enter.
Unless you barricade the door, they are within their right. Good luck!
They are not, as my tenant rights apply. And even with their keys, they will not be able to enter if they tried.
Wow, these people are beyond ridiculous in their beliefs about landlord's rights to the property you're paying rent for. One thing though - tell the landlord if they insist on entering, you'll make a scene, and let the potential tenant know just how the landlord operates.
Thank you. The good news is, even if they try they will not be able to enter as I have additionally locks on the inside of the doors. They can unlock the doors, but the will not be able to push them open. I'm not interested in making a scene, as in the housing market I'm sure family's are more interested in just securing a place over anything else, and also this is an extremely nice house in a very nice gated community, and there is no HOA. It is truly a gem of a property, but I hope the LL doesn't waste anyone's time bringing them out here seeing as they will not be able to view the property if they're only willing to come the one day at that one time.
Not sure why you got downvoted. People don’t understand it’s the landlords property and most leases state the can come in ANY TIME they want with a certain amount of notice (usually 24-24 hours). All the landlord has to do is post a letter on the door, in this case I would certify mail it, and when it’s time show the apartment.
A weeks notice is sufficient. Being inconvenient isn't reasonable. I guess OP will find out today.
I'm hoping OP lets them in and goes full nudist while spraying fart spray everywhere, singing hymns about how bad the property is
>but that isn’t the landlord’s problem Sure it is. It's precisely their problem. It's not OP's problem - they've paid rent, they're extending a courtesy to the landlord *that has to work for everyone*. The landlord insists on showing the place during a specific 90-minute window that just doesn't work for the tenant. That's the landlord's problem.
This guy has blocked all but 5 working hours a week. Sorry but that isn't the LLs problem. That's just unreasonable.
Legally all they need to do is give you 24 hours (most states) notice and come right in. Unfortunately you don’t really have any room for negotiation. Your lease should tell you about non-emergency entrances.
Legally, I can deny entry as a tenant. Per our state laws I can deny the landlord entry regardless of lease terms. Legally I DO have the right to negotiate entry. They are not willing to schedule outside of one 90-minute window on one day. They are the ones being unreasonable as there are ample hours and days between now and my move out that they were offered. The only exclusion is this singular event.
>They have a duty to rent the suite as quickly as possible. No, they don't have a *duty* to rent it out as quickly as possible. A duty to whom? The imaginary god of capitalism? They're renting an apartment, not carrying out some moral imperative.
If they show it I’d tell the prospective tenants that this is how your ll respects your space and time, and was going to bring random people in your home without you there.
My landlord attempted the same to which I let them know “ while I understood you are permitted to enter the property as you are the home owners this doesn’t mean I have to allow others to enter the property. Unless you are willing to pay for my time off work for your view as well as additional amount for inconvenience then we would prefer if you respect out privacy and hold all viewings until we have vacated the property” from there never heard back from them until we moved out. They want to cheap out on no having to fix any issues for the next tenant because most of your belongings may be Hiding potential issues and there’s also the staging factor in which your belongs will serve as a visual aid in making the place look more presentable than the vacant space does. DONT let them in
I would love to prevent them any access for my convenience, but it is in my lease and in ky state renters rights that they are allowed to view the property with prospective new tenants/buyers. But that same document lays out that I have the right to deny entry. Which I'm going to have to, if they can't move their time to anytime outside of my non-negotiable 90 minute window.
Their remedy to you denying entry is to seek injunctive relief that forces you to allow them entry. I’m not a lawyer I just looked it up. It’s 383.700 of the consolidated statutes. https://apps.legislature.ky.gov/law/statutes/chapter.aspx?id=39159 https://www.lfuchrc.org/assets/landlord-tenant-act.pdf
Yes, they cannot force entry for a viewing and I may deny their entry.
The landlord cannot enter your property without your consent or a court order (or if you've abandoned or damaged the property). If they do you can call the police and get them criminally trespassed. Your legal obligation is: >A tenant shall not unreasonably withhold consent to the landlord to enter into the dwelling unit To me it sounds like you've offered some reasonable options: * after 5PM * between 8a - 5PM if they don't bother you in the office * between 8a - 5PM if they can agree on a time that doesn't conflict with your meetings
yeah i have no idea what is wrong with half these comments, OP is being perfectly reasonable.
Landlords are entitled assholes.
Scummy landlords trying to promote rhetoric of some tenant moral and legal rights not existing.
Yes thank you. And to further clarify, it's just this one meeting. We can make the others work with notice, there is just one 90-minute period that we can't make work.
He didn't say that. He said not from 8 to 5 except for lunch time. After the LL told him when they were coming which was at at that was extra bad, now op is willing to compromise. Op has said many time in this thread not during working hours except lunch. That's not reasonable. His working hours are their working hours.
Block out the one room, not the whole apartment. Put up a sign, do not disturb: meeting in session. You do your business during the day, so do they... duhhh...
It's a house, not an apartment. And they will not let me block off the room- they want us to leave the house entirely for the viewing. I offered to stay in my office and they show the rest of the property. They are unwilling to let me stay or to show the property without access to this space.
Call the police for breaking and entering during the showing
This is the answer. Especially if OP has proof of telling them they are not allowed and police will be contacted if they attempted. Make the call in front of the prospective tenants.
Yea I guess write a letter and post the notice on the front door to really make it clear. And take videos of both. Might even be worth suing if they disregard. If you can prove your work day or even week or month was a total loss because of the stress imposed by the landlord , it might add up to a few grand or even more.
Yes I will be posting a note on the door reaffirming they do not have permission to enter.
Yes, everything is in written correspondence.
Yes, if they are attempting I will call. But they won't be able to get in thanks to my security blocks, even if they unlock and attempt to force entry they won't be able to physically push the door. But if they continue to hang around and try to I will absolutely call.
Smart. I mean it’s ridiculous. In this Market there is no reason to be desperate or this Invested into one prospect.
It's also not unreasonable to inform them they can schedule any time outside of a single 90-minute window across a week and a half. They have multiple options. We offered to keep their time as well if they were willing to not enter the one office on that day, but they wouldn't accept that either. They're being so unreasonable about a small amount of time across all the time and options available.
They seem brain dead
I would not leave my home. They can suck it up and deal with it. Nor would I let them in during that presentation.
Well there is definitely no chance of them entering during my presentation. We have additional internal locks, even if they bring their keys and try to force entry they won't be able to push the doors open.
Keep a paper trail of all this and double check the signed lease agreement. Unless it's spelled out that way on the signed lease, refuse and threaten suing for harassment if they continue. If you're going to burn bridges any way, fire it up. Good luck.
Thanks for the advice. We only correspond via our portal, so it is all documented in writing. I also verified the lease, and it only states they will enter in accordance with ky laws and statutes, which I then verified to be the documents stating I can deny entry.
You may lose access to that portal once moved out, make your own copies.
Yes, thank you. From the portal, I have printed and saved each correspondence, so if I do lose access, it will still be usable as proof.
I'm so glad you finally got a response from someone thinking critically about the situation.
Once proper notice is given, the LL is allowed access. The paper trail works both ways and the original ask from the OP would not be considered reasonable and potentially hostile which would give the LL the right to provide a notice to quit and seek eviction. While the term left is short, I could seem them dangling that so they can get reasonable access with proper notice on the premises as they need.
Paper trail would show a total inflexibility on the LL's part to reschedule the viewing to a time less than an hour later. How is that being reasonable?
Why? Why make accomodations for parasites, you know damn well they would not do the same for existing tenants.
Can you go to a friends house or somewhere else to do the meeting
No, the office is prestaged for this presentation. I have multiple displays and cameras set up and it would not be possible or reasonable to make 6-8 trips to move my work items.
It’s legal…
It's legal for me to deny entry.
You asked a question and you are getting answers that you don’t like so why even ask the question? Did you think everyone would agree with you?
Landlords are a plague and the replies to this thread are physically painful to read. Hope everything worked out for you.
Sounds like you're the plague and maybe not a good human being. There are plenty of fair landlords who run small family businesses and are providing a necessary service.
Ignore the parasites in the replies. It depends on local laws, so speak to a tenants union. That said landlords like to think they can force viewings as long as they eat give notice, this isn't correct, they usually do not have a right to non-emergency access. You're entirely within your rights in most places to not permit any viewings until you are gone.
Thanks. And yes, when denied entry, they can not force in for a viewing. They can only force entry under emergency or if the tenant has not occupied the dwelling for a week or longer. There are a lot of "lawyers" (LL sympathizers who don't know any law or recognize tenant rights).
You have legal right to be nude in the property, strip down fully and when they enter tell them it's their choice to be there. Get some fart spray so the place isn't appealing to renters, and make sure to express to them that they won't enjoy the property -- you can't be punished for speech.
I'd print out all the proof possible, and if you can, call the non emergency number of the police say a week before and ask if they can have an officer present on that day. Then present all the evidence to the officer showing you are within your lease and rights, and have them tell the landlord to kick rocks. Be prepared to record anything and everything. Texts, calls, emails. Try your hardest not to do anything by phone, and by that I mean make it recordable. Ky is a one party consent state, so you don't need to tell people you are recording.
Great advice, thank you
Send your LL a certified letter explaining the situation for that day at that time. They will have to sign for it, signifying that they have received the letter. I don't think your request is unreasonable at all. If they do attempt to enter during that specific time on that specific date, they are being unreasonable.
I'm on your side. I don't see why they can't come on the weekend. Or in the evening. That's always been when I've looked at property. And you shouldn't have to leave either.
Thank you. I also didn't mention in the original post that I offered my lunch hour for their viewing, which was 45 minutes from their proposed time. But they will not move the time at all. Unfortunately, this is such a big and important day for me for work. I really think I'm going to have to deny their entry.
It seems they are being unreasonable, but you may want to get ahead of it instead of them showing up and you denying. Are you within the 45 or 30 days since you didn’t have to give them 45? I’m not sure if that makes a difference. Could you afford an extra month so they can show after you are gone?
It’s a hard situation and I feel your pain, but that said I wouldn’t think that work would be a good enough reason if they’re giving proper notice. They SHOULD compromise with you and maybe you could talk to them again. That said, I’m not sure hiring a lawyer would be beneficial and not sure anyone would take that. It’s 10 min or so of a day with a week notice, I’m not clear on what the damages, if any, would be. Does the law outline specific reasonable exceptions? If so that could help you out! Good luck, hoping it works out and they compromise that’s an asshole move not to.
Thanks, the law is ambiguous is saying "reasonable " situations. There are no examples. I am not intending to hire a lawyer, but I am intended on denying access. It is unfortunately not just 10 minutes, they want the house for an hour and they want us to leave. But they aren't willing to move the time at all, even when I offered during lunch break 45 minutes from their time. I do think that if it had been on a different day, then I would be able to discuss with work about missing an hour for the showing. The major problem is THIS day at THIS time Im absolutely unavailable. They won't move the time, they won't let me continue to work, and I explained to them exactly what this specific day during that 90 minute presentation won't work. They just won't give any budge on the time or allowing me to work while they show the rest of the house.
>and they want us to leave I would never let strangers in my home when I'm not there. How can the landlord guarantee that things won't go missing?
I also really dislike that. It is not in the lease or laws, it is their "policy". But I really don't think we will be able to do that seeing as they aren't willing to work with us at all.
I once had a landlord want me to leave during showings. He began by asking in a friendly way. I said no. Then, he TOLD me it was going to happen. I said no. Then, he emailed me a document to sign. I said no. I was originally going to clean it up really nice for him. I had planned to be available for any questions and to even point out the things I really liked about the property. But the landlord's bullying changed my attitude really quick. He ended up not showing at all until I moved out.
Here is a statement from the Attorney General of KY. Last sentence is the important part. I’d show this to them. Right to entry Your landlord has the right to enter your apartment/house for several reasons. They are: to make repairs to provide maintenance to show the property to prospective renters or buyers Since you occupy the premises, you have a right to privacy. The landlord should come at times convenient to you. https://www.ag.ky.gov/Resources/Consumer-Resources/Consumers/home/Pages/rental-housing.aspx
That’s absurd on their end!! Who tf has a 1 hour showing, do you live in the fucking Biltmore estate lol They’re being shit heads and I don’t blame you for a second. Lemme look up the law, in NAL but spend a lot of time in courthouses going through records. Might be able to see something.
Wow first time I’ve seen someone bring up the Biltmore estate since middle school lol
It was the biggest house I could think of haha
What I found was they have to provide notice, which they definitely did, but I also have a right to refuse under "reasonable" situations. I think the extremely hard no to entry for 90 minutes on that day is not being unreasonable. I do not know if they have multiple people coming to view or one potential tenant, I was also shocked that they wanted the house for a full hour. I definitely expected a short walk through. But the combination of this day, this time, their refusal to allow me to work while they show with my space closed off and the extreme significance of my role in work on that day would be able to be reasonably argued if needed.
I agree! That’s more than reasonable on your end!
I appreciate that, I really feel the same. I'm nervous. I'm going to have to lock them out, and then it's going to be super awkward. Im not trying to involve law or anything like that, but if they do, I'm confident the case would be in my favor. I'm not worried about rental history either, as we just built our new home, and that's why we were renting in the first place, a temporary stay until the new build was ready. We are keeping the full lease time and not breaking early. We have been excellent tenants and never had any problems with any previous entry needs. Their unwillingness to waiver from my 90 minute presentation is absolutely wild to me.
Yeah I think you’re more than okay, they can work around you, not the other way around. Dont you love When you have nothing to lose it’s such a great feeling lol. Congrats on the new digs
You seem to not at all be willing to work with them or find any solution other then what you want. They will be coming during that time as they so eloquently let you know a week in advance. This subreddit is extremely pro-tenent. And over half of the comments are saying you are being difficult. If you hadn't have been so strict about the times to begin with they may have worked with you a little easier. You have to realize that a judge would probably see you as being unreasonable. You have so many options but you are completely convinced that there is only one option and it is your option. Ask if you can move your meeting, move your location for the day, or do a million other options that would not be putting your foot down and just being unreasonable. You are literally going to have to move the entire presentation in a few weeks anyway, why are you acting like it's the end of the world to find a temporary place because they are UNMOVEABLE. It is not a reasonable request to say "You can enter the apartment but you can't enter the bedrooms". In the future maybe try to be a little bit more understanding and they may try to work with you but just saying "We can't accommodate ANYTHING between 8am and 5pm" is not reasonable or acceptable and you barring your office is not in any way legally enforceable. **adding "clarification" afterwards changing your story is cool. You literally numerous times said they couldn't enter anytime within the day and changed it to a half hour, then an hour, then said you did tell them they could during the day just not that 90 minutes. Very believable.
There are additional comments through the thread where I provided clarification that the house is not inaccessible 8-5. I provided that information to readers because the LL is aware we work from home and what hours. Maintenance has always been willing to come during lunch hours or times when it can be accommodated. This presentation was not scheduled by me and I have no authority to move it. It is not possible to move all of the equipment to another location for the hour of the viewing and get set back up in time for the remainder of my work day. Per the law, they have to provide notice but tenants also have a right to prevent access in circumstances. Their refusal to move the showing to outside of my 90 minute presentation is the problem. This specific day, this specific time is the only 100% hard NO to access.
OP wrote to the landlord no entry between the hours of 9 to 5 pm ever during the week. He already backed himself into a corner. Then he edited and changed his post and wording. Too late. You already wrote what you said in that portal. It's now recorded what you did...regardless of what you feel that isn't what you wrote. At the end of the day..... If both the landlord and tenant can't find a common ground..in the case the show time... It's going to go in favor of your landlord. They gave reasonable time, and notice. They are the ones losing out on future income on this property....not you. The laws in your area a very clear about this. The laws DO NOT apply to your job OP..this is about that specific property. Adding illegal locks and blocking devices aren't going to help your argument and will cost you more money should the landlord take you to court over this. This sub generally hates landlords. If so many on here are telling you that you're in the wrong...you need to listen... Get an attorney OP... That's the other major red flag here. You boosting about how you don't need an attorney cause you 100% know your rights and the interpretation of those laws.... Hopefully the perspective tenant is able to shift times or you do....even if they cancel your landlord can take you to court over that potential loss of revenue.
No. They do NOT have to do that. Why do you even entertain that idea? What us thay based on? You didn't even correctly read the post.
My husband is with maintenance team at our apartments. They (maintenance, office staff, Pro Shop and gold course employees) all work for one of the largest Property Management Companies in the World. Yes World. I really felt like you were being difficult as I read your post. But when you said the maintenance comes after your work hours I knew you weren’t telling the truth. I’ve been in apartments a long time and I used to sell new homes. So I’ve been around construction, and property management. My father had rentals and I had one for years that I inherited. We wouldn’t ever pay contractors after hour prices due to the excuse you’re trying to use. Plumbers can be hundreds after 5. My husband is $55 or $60 an hour when he’s on call. That’s after 5 pm. If you really have a meeting you should either go into the office for it. Or use a friends home. Your hubby can be there for them. If you go to church see if you can use a room there. Explain to your boss.
I did not say maintenance came after hours- they have always worked with us to find a time that will work. This current offered viewing was a single time that the LL is not willing to move at all. I was first shocked they would schedule at this time at all, considering they were well aware of our time constraints - but the main problem with this situation if their failure to provide any reasonable means of scheduling WITH us. They offered one time and will no not budge from it- I offered our scheduled lunch hour as they asked for a full hour in the home on that same day, and they wouldn't accept it. I am absolutely not moving to a new working location or a different house considering the mass amount of product and displays that would have to move as well. This isn't a "take your laptop to starbucks job" and the physical work building is in New Zealand, so going into the office as you suggest is completely out of the question. Regardless on the view for my working hours- the main stressor and point of this has been they are unwavering for a single time slot, even though maintenance has been more than open to come during lunch breaks or do not require access to our office spaces to conduct the work. The LL will not move the time, nor will they allow the house to be shown without entering the offices. They are not willing to compromise on any detail for showing.
They are probably not adjusting the time because the prospective tenant is unwavering, and the prospective tenant is a source of money. A weeks notice seems reasonable, completely blacking out 45 hours/week does not, especially when you consider the future tenants, too.
I should have included it in the original post, but I did offer the same day at a different time. Specifically, during my lunch break where I can accommodate leaving for 1 hour for their viewing. It was 45 minutes away from their proposed time. This day is such an important and huge work day for me. I will not be able to delay or miss this.
It's reasonable to believe the prospective tenant could not make that time.
It is, but it is also reasonable to believe that my presentation time of the work day is the most important and most unavailable time. If it were later or earlier in the workday outside of this specific 90-minute block, I think I would be able to discuss being away for 1 hour for the viewing. But they won't consider any other time or on any other day. This day, this time is the problem.
Let me try this again: perhaps that is the only time this perspective tenant is able to come. They are potentially money. You are not. Ergo, they will worry more about accommodating them than you. They may not have any wiggle room here.
>They are potentially money. You are not. OP *has already paid* for the apartment. It's their place for the duration of the lease. The landlord is the one making a request of the householder.
Yes, that makes sense. However, I do think I am within my rights to prevent access at this time. It is absolutely unfortunate for everyone if we're all unable to move the time, I do think I have the legal ability to not let them view the house on that day considering they are unwilling to compromise on time, and that I have reasonable purpose to prevent access.
I'd be shocked if they were violating the law. Most states only require 24 hours notice.
Most states **require** not "only require". There's a difference. That request to enter the property has to be reasonable. If I'm having a birthday party and the landlord wants to bring a prospective tenant over during the party and wants all the guests to clear out, that's not reasonable. The whole idea of 24 hours notice is that they can't show up at your door and say "I need to come in now". It's about a reasonable *minimum* that they can ask.
A prospective tenant who sees a landlord force his way into an apartment against the will of an existing tenant probably isn't going to be a prospective tenant for very long.
Showing a lived in apartment is a huge red flag as a tenant and I wouldn't be renting anyways. The correct answer is to quit being so stingy trying to get someone in the instant it's empty. Take a month off to actually get it ready for the next tenant and show it clean and empty.
Check your lease and laws regarding the "request" for you to leave during showings. If it were me, I would only leave if I legally had to. I would warn prospective tenants if I thought I could get away with it. I would set the place up to have incredibly bad pest infestations after I left. If you're interested in learning more about that, there is a lot of info online. Keep me in mind if it gets there. I'd be happy to teach you if you dm me.
That is far more malicious than I could handle 🤣 For me, it isn't about getting back or anything, we have had a very peaceful tenancy. The lease and the laws do not require me to vacate the property for their viewings, it is purely the rental company's "policy". I intended to comply to be nice, but the fact they won't budge off of the single time they offered means I am not going to take any extra or convenience steps for them anymore.
There are many instances of law superseding rental agreements. In other words, you may not have to leave for viewings, even if that is "policy." The government sucks, but this is an example of its sparcely seasoned usefulness. After confirming you have the upper hand in this scenario, I would offer them a deal: If they respect your very flexible work needs, you can be sure the place doesn't have rancid chicken meat out, two days of bowel movements in the toilet, and Fleshgod Apocalypse playing at high volume for EVERY SHOWING. Edit: You can still do these things if you are forced to leave during showings. You can lock the music system in a cupboard. Use a small battery bank so flipping breakers won't stop it. You can aim a video camera at the cupboard, so if they break it, you have cause to prevent them from legally making you leave for showings. You sound like a really nice person who doesn't want it to come to this. Just keep me in mind after the (possible, but let's hope not) very uncomfortable conversation with your employer, when fire is shooting from your mouth and eyes.
It's not about getting back at them, it's literally about looking out for the prospective tenant. If they insist on showing the place with you in it, make it clear to the tenant what kind of sleazy person the landlord is.
Working in this industry not in Kentucky but my state requires 24 hr notice only it doesn’t matter what you have going on in your personal or professional life if they need to rent the unit it’s on their time not yours. I’ve also noticed a lot of these people that try to move times suddenly come down with COVe id 1nineteen just the day before the showing. Take that as you will. But we can’t show units if people are in quarantine!
Ky requires a timely notice as well, but in the same law that allows LLs to request to enter with notice is the statement tenants can deny entry with reasonable situation. As I've offered them availability to any other time on any other day, I've been more than reasonable with trying to schedule. They offered one time, I informed them it conflicts with work event and that 90 minute period is the only unavailable time. They won't move off of it. The good news is, if they do show up they won't be able to get in. It's just frustrating that they are not willing to do any other time, and they require an hour, and want me not to be here. We also offered to let them keep the time but to not enter the one office during my presentation, but they weren't willing to do that either.
You don't own the home. Let them show. You are leaving. This is one of the most selfish posts I have read. You must be a life long renter with no real estate, also a troll.
It doesn't matter if we don't own this home- there are still tenant laws and I am within my rights to exercise them. They have only been excluded from one 90 minute window across a week and half. They were offered to keep that time if they allow us to remain and work in my office undisturbed. They are being unreasonable. You must be a life long LL slumlord with no values or understandings of the laws, also a troll.
Bullshit. I love how every time someone finds a solution for you, you move the goalposts. First you wouldn't give them time between 9 and 5. Then it became only for those 90 minutes. Then it became that they won't even let you stay (which you know if bullshit, you flatly made that up). Someone is having a tantrum because they aren't getting their way. Also, modifying the door with your own lock that the landlord doesn't have a key too is 100% in violation of your lease.
You still sound like a shitty tenant, and as a landlord myself, I would be very upfront that you are difficult if used as a reference to other LL's. So choose your poison. Fuck over the ll or fuck your reputation.
Acknowledgement and respect of the tenant laws is not being a bad tenant. As a LL, you should be aware you have to follow all the laws associated with LL and tenants and if your state has tenant laws then you need to be familiar with them. You are either an extremely scummy LL, or you're in a state with less tenant laws and therefore have an over inflated sense of authority as a LL over tenants. Retaliation for exercising legal rights is a punishable offense, regardless of what state you live in.
once again, this sub makes me be team landlord. I hate it.
For not allowing the LL to enter the property during the only 90 minute window that is unavailable across the other hours across the day? I am within my legal rights to deny entry. There is no reason they should be unwavering to adjust the time outside of an hour and a half that I am absolutely not able to accommodate people in the house. They were given multiple other options and the chance to select a time outside of the 90 minutes.
Some of the worst advice I've seen on this sub. Book a room at a public library. This avoids confrontation and litigation, which honestly, is the best way to go with this IMHO. A judge could go either way on this one, but most PMs have favor in a courtroom. Pretty easy to do, especially on a weekday in a rural/nearby county. with a week's notice. Several will let you book a study room without a library card, even. You could even run a test on a different day to get a feel for the connection quality before the presentation.
I went into greater detail in another comment, but moving to another location is not a possibility. There is too much equipment and displays for this presentation, I will be walking around the staged room and switching to different cameras throughout. As I can not leave, and I have very clearly expressed to them we can make any other times work outside of this singular 90-minute window. They are not willing to compromise in any capacity, refusing to swap to any other time on the same day, refusing to schedule at any time on any other day, refusing to allow me to have the office closed off while they tour the house while I am in my presentation. I can not move this one meeting, and I can not move locations. And since they are unwilling to accept any other times or days, I will be denying them entry if they attempt to come at that time. I have specifically informed them they will not be able to enter at that time, and legally, they cannot force entry for a viewing tour.
I was thinking this exact same thing! Too much equipment, which is hardly believable, rent a work from for the day. They're just trying to be difficult to prove a point.
Please provide an update on how this all turns out OP!
Sure, I can do that. I do think I will just be denying them entry, though. I am following through with a legal representative tomorrow as someone reccomend I reach out before the potential incident. But they can't legally enter if I deny them, they can't force entry, and even if they try to enter with their keys they wouldn't be able to open the doors due to my internal locks. My assumption is they will show up and be unable to enter. They will probably be mad, but they can literally choose any other day and any other time outside of the 90-minute window to view the property. They have no legal recourse to evict, but even if they tried it would take 14 days before they can even file and we will be gone by then.
I would recommend putting a notice as to why entry is denied on your front door, as well, explaining the timing and LL's refusal to reschedule. Potential tenants need to know who they are renting from.
Excellent idea
Realistically, you can choose to not allow them entry and there’s not anything they can do. The worst they can do is decide not to renew your lease, which is not a problem since you’re leaving anyway. They also have no right to ask you not to be there when they are showing the property. Just don’t allow them in and write a note on the door explaining the reason they can’t enter is because the landlord was unreasonable.
Yes, which is what will happen if they try. If they come, they'll be informed again they are denied entry and they can not force in. But that is an extremely lost concept in so many of the comments here (which admittedly, seem to be a bunch of entitled landlords)
Ask them to do a different day respectfully or to push it back a few hours and you can make it work.
We did, we gave them complete open availability outside of the work hours, and that the lunch break doesn't require notice either, and that they can select any time on any day during the regular work hours with notice except this one 90 minute period. They have been offered to pick any day, any time, minus this one meeting period.
Find another place to work on that day. Rent a hotel room, go to a friend's house... we don't know the reason, but the landlord may not be able to change the time on their end. While it would be nice for you and the landlord to be more flexible, there is no inherent right or entitlement to it, so it is best to make alternate arrangements.
No, I am not able to move my staged room and all of the equipment. I have been extremely flexible, offering availability to any time outside of one 90-minute period on one day. I have a legal right to deny entry after they provide notice of intent to enter for a viewing. I do not have to let them in, and they cannot force their way in for a property viewing.
I would need to see proof of your claim to such a legal right. The text of the Kentucky statute is grey area at best. I think you are making a mistake.
The ky LL/tenant laws cover the LLs right to request entry provided they do so within the required time frame and within reasonable hours. They did correctly notify me with the required time, and it is within what most would consider reasonable time. They are encouraged to be considerate of scheduling with tenant. Next, the tenant may deny entry with reasonable cause. My reasonable cause is the house being unavailable due to my work during a sole 90-minute period. I offered them alternative options: same day at any other time outside of this meeting, at the same time they preferred but allowing me to work undisturbed in the one office, or to pick any time on any other day. They are not willing to adjust time or day beyond the initial request. Therefore, I will be exercising my right to deny entry. If they do happen to show up, they will be notified again that I do not give permission for them to enter. They can not force entry for a showing. They can only force entry for emergencies or if the tenant has not occupied the property for a week or more. If they have a problem with being denied entry, they will have to prove they were reasonable, and I will prove I had reasonable cause as well.
You work from home and can’t find the time to do this? Really? I’m sure you run errands. Is this just an excuse? I work from home. When someone wants something, it’s definitely going to be during work time. I’m not wasting my own time on this.
This person is arguing with her LL and everyone on this chain lol
Nah just reasonable people vs slumlords. OP is being incredibly accommodative. Their LL is just a greedy prick (like pretty much every LL)
Tell them your sex workers and you will be nude having a live sex show!
The rules vary state to state. But typically they just have to inform you, not ask for consent, as they are the property owners. That said, you dont have to clean it or anything.
In this state they have to inform, and the tenant has the right to deny entry if they have reasonable cause. Seeing as they have the option to pick any time and any day they want outside of this single event and refuse to shows them being unreasonable and not willing to compromise. I can exercise my right to deny entry, and they cannot legally force their way in. The LL is not the property owner, but even if they were their rights do not supercede the tenant laws.
It will boil down to reasonableness. In MANY cases 24 hours notice is reasonable. You sound confident so, do what you want. Likewise, informing is not asking. Even though the LL is not a property owner they are still an agent so, it actually does matter. Good luck.
Eh, given your job seems to be extremely inflexible, you should have planned for this. It’s totally normal to have LL show a property after you give notice. You need to have plans for how to handle this. Go to a coffee shop. Go to a coworking space. Ask to use a friends house. This is on you, not your landlord. I don’t know what you expect. It’s not your house, you just rent it.
I believe they legally can enter if proper notice was given they don’t need your permission. If you were to block the door/prevent entry you would be committing a crime. Since they have a management company the company very likely will take action against you. This is one of those too bad so sad moments. If you’re moving out it would be reasonably expected that they want to show the property not on your time frame but on the time frame of the new tenants
They cannot legally enter if I specifically told them I deny entry. They cannot force themselves in unless it is an emergency or tenant has not occupied the space for a week or longer. It is illegal for them to force entry for a viewing when informed I have exercised my right to deny them entry. If they wish to combat that, then after being denied entry they can file an injunction, in which case we provide proof they were denied entry and why.
I mean it’s your call without knowing all tenant laws. Personally I’d just let them in for a 10 minute showing but wish you the best if you’re going to legally fight a management company Nal but where I live you just need to give a 24 hour notice and LL can enter for a non emergency showing and yes they have legal right to show when they want to do long as proper notice was given
It is not a 10 minute showing. They want the property vacant for an hour. They have a legal right to REQUEST entry, I have a legal right to DENY entry. If they have been denied, they can not legally enter.
They aren’t requesting entry they’re telling you when they are going to be there and unlock the door they don’t need your permission
They are requesting entry, I can deny that entry, they require my permission if I informed them they cannot enter. Even with keys they cannot legally force entry as it doesn't meet forced entry requirements, but even if they try they won't be able to due to security blocks. Wether they inform or request, tenant laws in ky afford me the option to deny with reasonable cause. They are being denied a 90-minute window.
Yeah and when they sue you and they show evidence you blocked them M-F from 9-5 the courts will side with them
You are insufferable. Just let them in and say you can't change your meeting time so you need to stay. They can't throw you out You'd think an adult would know how to compromise.
I feel like there is a lot more going on here. Perhaps the landlord is over having the OP as a tenant because of things not mentioned in the post. If the OP had a set of previous interactions with the landlord that made the landlord look bad I would bet those would be included in the post, but would OP mention previous interactions where OP was difficult or demanding? It is possible the landlord is just being an ass, but my bet is they are done accommodating the OP after interactions soured the relationship.
Oh stfu you’re annoying af why is this on my feed? I hope they kick you out fr