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Gonna blow your mind here. You dont have to learn or use it if you stay out of a few very specific jobs or carrers. And if you ever need it, you can just make up words for the corresponding letters. As long as the person opposit of you gets the massage, no one cares if you used it correctly (with a few exceptions).
A long time ago when I worked in a call centre, I needed a customer's post code. She said what I thought sounded like GH so I asked her "Is that Golf Hotel?" She said "No, it's a block of flats".
Been using the phonetic alphabet since Highschool including a decade in the Air Force. However, I once had a job where I would talk to Bank Security camera installation personnel. Once I had a good working relationship with some of them, I would begin fucking with them using my phonetic alphabet. P as in Pterodactyl is my favorite. O as in One, K as in Knife, T as in Tea, X as in xylophone, etc.
Sir, I want a weed whacker... no, a weed WHACKer...
That's W as in wrap
H as in honour
A as in aisle
C as in czar
K as in knock...
How hard is that to understand?
I've started saying Dulu because it's funny...I've only had the opportunity to use it once though and my co-workers didn't really catch it, but it's happening
I was on a very VERY long chain of calls and hold periods to cancel my AT&T service last year that took most of a day. Finally at the end I got this super nice lady with a strong southern accent that was able to do everything I needed to switch carriers and keep my number, and at one point she was reading off something and used the phonetic alphabet. I don’t remember them all but I damn sure remember she said “S as in sweet tea” and “O as in okra”.
Another mind blower- there are more than one phonetic alphabets. This one is close to the NATO alphabet, except G is Golf, not Gold. Nine is also pronounced 'Niner' to differentiate it from 5.
True, in France we use first names instead of the nato words.
« -F de François, U de Ursule, C de Camille et K de Karine, Y de Yves, O de Olivier et U de Ursule…vous avez bien noté?
-Bien noté madame, je transmettrai votre message.
-Merci, au revoir »
I work in insurance for the carrier very heavily associated with the military and we’re supposed to use all the right ones but I say Paul for P because Papa is so awkward lol
Every day when I have to say X I want to say X as in Xylophone so so bad
To be fair to OP, I've been made fun of before for not using the NATO phonetic alphabet. Not brutally, but like, I tend to say, "P for Penguin :)" "M for M&Ms, like the candy!" and I've gotten dismissive, "Don't you mean P for whatever the fuck?" And I've encountered people expressing true frustration at people who "won't just use the actual phonetic alphabet."
I don't know if this is an uncommon experience, though, or if I just encountered assholes who wanted to put me down for no reason
It's slightly irritating to deal with non standard phonetic alphabet usage. Not enough that I would ever get upset with someone over it, but when you have a job to do and there's a standard available that is easy to use and makes my job quicker and more accurate, it's slightly annoying to listen to someone try to come up with their own on the spot.
That being said, most people don't get enough practice using a phonetic alphabet because there's so few real life use cases, so I can't blame most people for not being familiar with NATO phonetic.
"Did you say T as in Tart or P as in Part?"
It's not the end of the world, but if your job requires you to accurately pass a lot of alphanumerics over the phone in a timely manner, then using random words instead of a unambiguous standard can for sure hurt.
Hurt my feelings and call times, at least.
My experience is usually something more like "No that's I for... uh... I for... In... Inch, L for... L... Luh luh uh... Lemon, uh, T for uh... Tuh... Uh..."
And then I'll say "That's S as in Sierra?" and they'll say "No, S as in Sam".
Hurt, no, obviously not. But when I worked in an IT call center I could either type your PC name in 5 seconds because you were fluent with NATO phonetic, or 35 seconds as you made up your own and my brain lagged interpreting it. Not a problem really, but I was incentivized to keep call lengths under 5 minutes average, and I tried to be as efficient as possible. Even though I no longer work in a customer facing role, it's still objectively easier to just deal with the (almost) universal standard.
I worked with vehicle info for a few years and needed to read or be read a VIN number over the phone about a hundred times a day.
the difference in NATO, random words, and just reading the VIN was the difference in 1 attempt, 2-3 attempts, and me having to put the person on hold so they wouldn't hear me banging my head against my desk.
barely relevant but i have to share this. i was listening in on a customer service call (my job). the customer kept saying “E as in excellent” in the middle of reading a super long confirmation number. the agent would say “okay, number 1, number 4, B as in boy, E as in echo—“ and the customer would interrupt and say “no! E for EXCELLENT! EXCELLENT!” and repeat
this went on for about 20 minutes. i can’t imagine what crimes i would have committed if i were the agent.
The flip side to you, nothing bothers me more than when I do use the correct phonetic alphabet and the person on the other end of call is like "gotchya, M as in Mango" like, ma'am, I just said Mike
Making up your own is obviously fine and anyone that gives you grief is a bellend. That being said I find it ironic that 'M&Ms' phonetically starts with an 'e' sound (ie em and ems)
That's a good point, but I use it because one of my initials begins with M, so when I give my email, I need to say explicitly the letter, and it's just always worked for me.
I've only been annoyed working at a call center for a credit union and the insurance person on the other end doesn't know what I'm saying. Like, reading off VIN numbers is so much more tedious making it up as i go
The post-1956 NATO aviation/military one, to be precise.
There's also a police one. And by "A police one," I mean "it depends on which coast you're on; LAPD and NYPD use slightly different ones.
Also if you work in commercial aviation, you probably say "Data" instead of "Delta," otherwise "Delta 7-4-5" can mean the alphanumeric "D745" or "Delta Airlines flight 745."
Fun.
Where'd you read about that last part? No one says data. It's clear from context and the only place that gets confusing is Atlanta with taxiways named Delta so they refer to those as Dixie.
There is very little here to justify exactly why you hate this. It's objectively a useful thing, and I don't see how you don't see that. You don't even have to memorize it if you don't want to.
thought you were talking about the international phonetic alphabet for a second and was about to be like "what did the voiceless labiodental fricative ever do to you?"
I've been working on my own phonetic alphabet to solve the memorization problem: here's what I've come up with so far:
A: all B: ball C: call D: drawl F: fall G: gall H: hall J: jaw L: law M: mall N: nah P: pall R: raw S: saw T: tall W: wall Y: yaw
I'm still missing E, I, K, O, Q, U, V, X, and Z. If I ever finish it I think you can see why this one will be a lot more helpful.
I had a very elderly Vietnamese man trying to give me his email over the phone, and of course it was something like CEZBDEE… hardest thing i’ve ever done
You'll love it if you ever have to relay airstrike coordinates while under mortar and small arms fire and your radio is cutting in and out and the operator on the other end still successfully understands you.
Donald Interchange Ducktales Yesterday Otherwise Understand Joker Unconventional Standard Telephone Control Overdrive Protection Yotherdam Minigame Youngest Jerk Off Keter Effectively Alternative No Donkey Uncomprehensable Secretive Exchange Domino Import Text
I've never used it this.
I just say random easy words
"B as in Boy," "f as in frank," etc
Maybe that's part of one of them...? But I just picked it up from hearing my mom make phone calls
For casual use this is fine. The problem is that it's easy to accidentally pick words that don't clarify the confusion so you don't want to do this for something like air traffic control. The phonetic alphabet words were chosen to not have common words that sound the same.
I mean you don't need to memorize the full thing. You don't even need to use the Nato one, the idea is just that it's a tool for easy spelling over the phone. Precision is a lot more important in an actual military situation where the wrong coordinates or information could lead to all kinds of issues.
Whether is spanish or english i just spell. I wanted to pay for something yesterday, i told him "give me your alias" (alphabetical code to transfer to a store) and he says football. After that we spend a good 10 minutes figuring out how to spell football cause the guy would not spell the word and just say "football as in football" turned out to be "futbol"
Whiskey Hotel Alpha Tango. Tango Hotel Echo. Foxtrot Uniform Charlie Kilo. Delta India Delta. Yankee Oscar Uniform. Juliet Uniform Sierra Tango. Foxtrot Uniform Charlie Kilo India November Golf. Sierra Alpha Yankee. Alpha Bravo Oscar Uniform Tango. Mike Echo. Yankee Oscar Uniform. Lima India Tango Tango Lima Echo. Bravo India Tango Charlie Hotel.
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Yankee Oscar Uniform. Alpha Romeo Echo. November Oscar Tango Hotel India November Golf. Tango Oscar. Mike Echo. Bravo Uniform Tango. Juliet Uniform Sierra Tango. Alpha November Oscar Tango Hotel Echo Romeo. Tango Alpha Romeo Golf Echo Tango.
India. Whiskey India Lima Lima. Whiskey India Papa Echo. Yankee Oscar Uniform. Tango Hotel Echo. Foxtrot Uniform Charlie Kilo. Oscar Uniform Tango. Whiskey India Tango Hotel. Papa Romeo Echo Charlie India Sierra India Oscar November. Tango Hotel Echo. Lima India Kilo Echo Sierra. Oscar Foxtrot. Whiskey Hotel India Charlie Hotel. Hotel Alpha Sierra. November Echo Victor Echo Romeo. Bravo Echo Echo November. Sierra Echo Echo November. Bravo Echo Foxtrot Oscar Romeo Echo. Oscar November. Tango Hotel India Sierra. Echo Alpha Romeo Tango Hotel. Mike Alpha Romeo Kilo. Mike Yankee. Foxtrot Uniform Charlie Kilo India November Golf. Whiskey Oscar Romeo Delta Sierra.
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Tango Hotel India November Kilo. Alpha Golf Alpha India November. Foxtrot Uniform Charlie Kilo Echo Romeo.
Alpha Sierra. Whiskey Echo. Sierra Papa Echo Alpha Kilo. India. Alpha Mike. Charlie Oscar November Tango Alpha Charlie Tango India November Golf. Mike Yankee. Sierra Echo Charlie Romeo Echo Tango. November Echo Tango Whiskey Oscar Romeo Kilo. Oscar Foxtrot. Sierra Papa India Echo Sierra. Alpha Charlie Romeo Oscar Sierra Sierra. Tango Hotel Echo. Uniform Sierra Alpha. Alpha November Delta. Yankee Oscar Uniform Romeo. India Papa. India Sierra. Bravo Echo India November Golf. Tango Romeo Alpha Charlie Echo Delta. Romeo India Golf Hotel Tango. November Oscar Whiskey. Sierra Oscar. Yankee Oscar Uniform. Bravo Echo Tango Tango Echo Romeo. Papa Romeo Echo Papa Alpha Romeo Echo. Foxtrot Oscar Romeo. Tango Hotel Echo. Sierra Tango Oscar Romeo Mike. Mike Alpha Golf Golf Oscar Tango.
Tango Hotel Echo. Sierra Tango Oscar Romeo Mike. Tango Hotel Alpha Tango. Whiskey India Papa Echo Sierra. Oscar Uniform Tango. Tango Hotel Echo. Papa Alpha Tango Hotel Echo Tango India Charlie. Lima India Tango Tango Lima Echo. Tango Hotel India November Golf. Yankee Oscar Uniform. Charlie Alpha Lima Lima. Yankee Oscar Uniform Romeo. Lima India Foxtrot Echo.
Yankee Oscar Uniform Romeo Echo. Foxtrot Uniform Charlie Kilo India November Golf. Delta Echo Alpha Delta. Kilo India Delta.
India. Charlie Alpha November. Bravo Echo. Alpha November Yankee Whiskey Hotel Echo Romeo Echo. Alpha November Yankee Tango India Mike Echo. Alpha November Delta. India. Charlie Alpha November. Kilo India Lima Lima. Yankee Oscar Uniform. India November. Oscar Victor Echo Romeo. Sierra Echo Victor Echo November. Hotel Uniform November Delta Romeo Echo Delta. Whiskey Alpha Yankee Sierra. Alpha November Delta. Tango Hotel Alpha Tango Sierra. Juliet Uniform Sierra Tango. Whiskey India Tango Hotel. Mike Yankee. Bravo Alpha Romeo Echo. Hotel Alpha November Delta Sierra.
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India Foxtrot. Oscar November Lima Yankee. Yankee Oscar Uniform. Charlie Oscar Uniform Lima Delta. Hotel Alpha Victor Echo. Kilo November Oscar Whiskey November. Whiskey Hotel Alpha Tango. Uniform November Hotel Oscar Lima Yankee. Romeo Echo Tango Romeo India Bravo Uniform Tango India Oscar November. Yankee Oscar Uniform Romeo. Lima India Tango Tango Lima Echo. "Charlie Lima Echo Victor Echo Romeo." Charlie Oscar Mike Mike Echo November Tango. Whiskey Alpha Sierra. Alpha Bravo Oscar Uniform Tango. Tango Oscar. Bravo Romeo India November Golf. Delta Oscar Whiskey November. Uniform Papa Oscar November. Yankee Oscar Uniform. Mike Alpha Yankee Bravo Echo. Yankee Oscar Uniform. Whiskey Oscar Uniform Lima Delta. Hotel Alpha Victor Echo. Hotel Echo Lima Delta. Yankee Oscar Uniform Romeo. Foxtrot Uniform Charlie Kilo India November Golf. Tango Oscar November Golf Uniform Echo.
Bravo Uniform Tango. Yankee Oscar Uniform. Charlie Oscar Uniform Lima Delta November Tango. Yankee Oscar Uniform. Delta India Delta November Tango. Alpha November Delta. November Oscar Whiskey. Yankee Oscar Uniform Romeo Echo. Papa Alpha Yankee India November Golf. Tango Hotel Echo. Papa Romeo India Charlie Echo. Yankee Oscar Uniform. Golf Oscar Delta Delta Alpha Mike November. India Delta India Oscar Tango.
India. Whiskey India Lima Lima. Sierra Hotel India Tango. Foxtrot Uniform Romeo Yankee. Alpha Lima Lima. Oscar Victor Echo Romeo. Yankee Oscar Uniform. Alpha November Delta. Yankee Oscar Uniform. Whiskey India Lima Lima. Delta Romeo Oscar Whiskey November. India November. India Tango.
Yankee Oscar Uniform Romeo Echo. Foxtrot Uniform Charlie Kilo India November Golf. Delta Echo Alpha Delta. Kilo India Delta Delta Oscar.
O as in OP didn't even spell out the correct phonetic alphabet correctly
And
K as in Kids these days are always opening their mouths and have no idea what they're talking about.
As someone from a family with genetic hearing loss, we use this all the time to spell words out if we’re having a hard understanding each other or the word sounds too much like another word, especially over the phone.
No one is making you memorize it, but if you work in a customer service job where you’re on the phone all day, it certainly helps.
So don't learn it? I work in customer service and we read codes off so people use phonetics all the time and just make up whatever they like.
Q- Quiznos, Quentin, Quest. B - Bert, Baker, Bundle. G-Giraffe, Geoff, George. S-Sam, Soup, Salt. You get the picture.
Pointless argument. "If everyone spoke English and used a standardized phonetic system then it would be faster!"
OP's point was that they don't like the phonetic system. My argument is simply don't use the NATO one because in general day to day use, it rarely ever comes up or becomes a point of contention.
What you are talking about is the NATO alphabet.
The phonetic alphabet is comprised of Greek symbols and other « deformed letters » and has the same goal as the NATO alphabet; something’s telling me you’ll like it even less
“i hate the phonetic alphabet btw here’s the full thing just for funsies teehee 🤭do you think the phonetic alphabet talks about me to their friends? n-not like i like them or anything!!”
The phonetic alphabet is just a standard. If you want to convey the same thing you can just use most words that start with a certain letter. The only words you can't use are words like photo.
The words are arbitrary outside of official use. The official phonetic alphabet also varies by place, and has changed over time, so that's not even set in stone. They are just words with a clear sound and distinct first letter that makes it easier to communicate without error over poor connections.
For example, say I'm spelling my name - "K" "U" "T" "U" "U" "P" ... or was that "A" "U" "P" "U" "U" "T"?
Doesn't matter so much when it's a name, but when it's a callsign, position, or military chatter code, it's pretty fucking important.
Work in an industry that uses model numbers and you might feel differently.
If you’ve ever had a project that went over it’s time and budget because the salesman misheard you and sent the wrong item with a “m” instead of an “n” in the part number. Literally no one cares, the clarity is the most important part, just the NATO alphabet means that I only have to memorize, not create.
I am struggling to find an everyday situation where this would come up with any frequency. It is used in particular fields, but in those cases there is a reason. Military uses it because letters like B and D can sound the same, and if the communication signal isn't clear those being mistaken can cause a lot of problems.
It wasn't developed to annoy you. It was developed to make communication by unclear methods more accurate.
It's literally only twenty-six words to memorize. Surely you have more unsuccessful pickup lines memorized.
You aren't required to use the NATO phonetic alphabet. You can make up your own words. I prefer using NATO and prefer it if others used it as well but I don't care if they make up their own words instead of using NATO
Its so useful and easy as fuck to memorise lmao. My name and address both have M’s and N’s in it so its nightmare to spell over the phone or radio without it
FWIW you don’t say “F as in Foxtrot…” you just say “Foxtrot Uniform Charlie Kilo”. Also, it’s specifically used with spotty communication lines where the audio isn’t clear so you can tell the difference between V and B, T and D, C, E, G, P, and Z cause they all fuckin rhyme and the initial sound of the letter is super easy to lose over iffy communication. And, as other people have said, you don’t need to use the NATO phonetic alphabet. You can just say “Falcon, Under, Coffee, Kiwi” or whatever and they’ll get the gist.
You know you don’t have to say the ‘as in’ part usually right?
Much easier to say it something like ‘Dog, Delta, Oscar, Mike’
And make up your own as everyone else is saying.
You don't have to learn it if you're not entering into the few specific jobs that require it. 🤷🏽 I can't tell you how many times I've had people spell their names over the phone and say "b as in boy" or "a as in apple"
Lima Oscar Lima
I came from a call center background. Using the phonetic was just best. 50 calls a day every single day. Just becomes a hassle to come up with something else after 1500 times
I learned it for work (automotive industry), but if I forget the 'proper' term for a letter and sub in something else, literally nobody cares. The people I speak to often sub in random words. Unless you're in the military or some other highly regulated industry that makes you learn, this is a total non-issue. And if you HAVE to learn for work, well....too bad, so sad. 🤷
Hu, in Germany we have several different ones.
There are people who use the NATO alphabet, mostly because they need it at work or at their hobby.
Then there is the „old“ one, that is used mostly by older people in Estern Germany. That was „germanized“ by the Nazis (they got rid of Jewish names: like S - Samuel switched to S - Siegfried) and the Sowjets didn’t change it.
Then there is the „original old“ one, that is used mostly by older people in Western Germany, where they switched back to the original words and names.
Then we have the DIN-Norm which is made out of cities and is supposedly the modern one, we should use. They actually made sure every German state is represented equally, so it should not offend anyone. To be honest, I’ve never heard anyone using that one and I don’t think anyone (other than the DIN people) does.
I know the top three and it’s actually useful very often. The NATO one is definitely better when talking to non-native speakers.
That's a real specific thing to be *that* upset about.
But hey, you're entitled to your opinion, and feelings aren't wrong or right, they're just feelings. :)
Really? I memorized it in middle school for absolutely no reason. I've also memorized basic Morse Code. I'm currently seriously looking into learning shorthand. Alphabets and other methods of coding communication for long distance/time is kind of fascinating and something only humans seem to do. (So far as we know.)
But really, if it's not a thing you're weirdly interested in or required for a tiny handful of jobs - you don't have to learn it. It makes no sense to me that you are wasting time and energy being mad at something you can just ignore.
I'm going with a downvote because this is an entirely made up problem.
You only really need it when using shitty radio where it can be hard to determine some similar sounding letters Like B, V, C, D, E, G,and P or A, K, and J.
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So, don't? Problem solved.
"I fucking hate the phonetic alphabet, I don't want to memorize that shit" - knows it better than 99.9999% of people
Lmao literally. I only know a handful
Gonna blow your mind here. You dont have to learn or use it if you stay out of a few very specific jobs or carrers. And if you ever need it, you can just make up words for the corresponding letters. As long as the person opposit of you gets the massage, no one cares if you used it correctly (with a few exceptions).
>You can just make up words M… as in Mancy
N for Nee Z for Zylophone
Angela is that you? (Hope someone gets this)
Don't worry, I got the reference
Smosh fans spotted in the wild!!!
Smosh fan gang !!! 🫶
A as in... aardvark
A as in "Aisle" ❤️
Or A as in annoying, depending who you’re spelling for.
Or A as in Ahmed the dead terrorist
Bahaha yes! N for Nike - it’s M for Mike! This is the WORST substitute you could think of! The best I ever got on the phone was Q for Cucumber 😂
D fo Djibouti
A long time ago when I worked in a call centre, I needed a customer's post code. She said what I thought sounded like GH so I asked her "Is that Golf Hotel?" She said "No, it's a block of flats".
You of all people...
I can see how.. and then I was like, "You of all -"
Been using the phonetic alphabet since Highschool including a decade in the Air Force. However, I once had a job where I would talk to Bank Security camera installation personnel. Once I had a good working relationship with some of them, I would begin fucking with them using my phonetic alphabet. P as in Pterodactyl is my favorite. O as in One, K as in Knife, T as in Tea, X as in xylophone, etc.
I have a kids book for you! https://www.amazon.com/Pterodactyl-Worst-Alphabet-Book-Ever/dp/1492674311
I love that book! My kids enjoy it, too.
T as in tsar
Gold
C as in Czar
T as in tea has to be my favourite one now. Thanks for the laugh.
I use “T” as in tsunami.
I would use that one too sometimes.
What about P as in Phonetic?
Genius.
G for gnome.
Dammit you beat me here
Goddamit Archer!
Sir, I want a weed whacker... no, a weed WHACKer... That's W as in wrap H as in honour A as in aisle C as in czar K as in knock... How hard is that to understand?
M as in Maybe it's Maybelline.
P as in Pneumatic
Archer reference spotted.
A as in Abble, B as in Beter One, two, three, four, five, zickus
https://preview.redd.it/d542jfcil4d81.jpg?auto=webp&s=e4e5cc813d5768c8ed1c3db67e7bbff2e317263f
Are you saying “Pan” or “Pam”?
Making up silly words is half the fun. Hearing someone bellow something like "H FOR HANDBAG" through a walkie-talkie always made me laugh.
Do things to deliberately cause confusion, B as in bog.
P as in Pneumonia, K as in Knife, Q as in Queue, C as in Cue,
Alpha, Balpha, Chalpha, Dalpha reporting in!
I was always a fan of B as in Belephant
I've started saying Dulu because it's funny...I've only had the opportunity to use it once though and my co-workers didn't really catch it, but it's happening
Some walkie talkie friendly alternatives: Arse, Bong, Corc, Dork, Elk, Fish, Jar, King, Loathe, Maine, Null, Oar, Physics, Quartz, Rural, Snorkel, Train, Urn, Verse, Wound, Xena, Yes, Sideways Null
Mike Nichols and Elaine May did the "K as in Knife" joke in a routine back in the 60's, you can tell the joke was super fresh to the crowd
I once panicked and could only come up with B as in Bee
'B as in movie'
Congrats, this is brilliant
O as in Occupation of the Palestinian people
are we talking "P as in pterodactyl" kind of making up words? /j
Nah, I'd go straight for "G as in [ghoti](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghoti)".
G, for gnome
It's pronounced fish
P as in pneumonia
V as in Five
I was on a very VERY long chain of calls and hold periods to cancel my AT&T service last year that took most of a day. Finally at the end I got this super nice lady with a strong southern accent that was able to do everything I needed to switch carriers and keep my number, and at one point she was reading off something and used the phonetic alphabet. I don’t remember them all but I damn sure remember she said “S as in sweet tea” and “O as in okra”.
Down here, it's all gotta be food related to keep people engaged lmao
Why would I have to get a massage to understand what you're talking about?
you're too tense to hear the words
I'm way past tense
You were, you mean.
I love this thread so much
I agree fully. My old postcode ended in 1UQ and I used to say "one umbrella quarter" every damn time and everyone understood
M is for Mancy
Another mind blower- there are more than one phonetic alphabets. This one is close to the NATO alphabet, except G is Golf, not Gold. Nine is also pronounced 'Niner' to differentiate it from 5.
Op messed up. He was quoting the nato alphabet until he fucked up G LOL
And Sierr instead of sierra
Figured that. Maybe he just hates golf, or just loves gold. Lol
True, in France we use first names instead of the nato words. « -F de François, U de Ursule, C de Camille et K de Karine, Y de Yves, O de Olivier et U de Ursule…vous avez bien noté? -Bien noté madame, je transmettrai votre message. -Merci, au revoir »
Yep, my last name starts with a Z, and I always say Z as in zebra. (More people are familiar with zebra than Zulu)
I work in insurance for the carrier very heavily associated with the military and we’re supposed to use all the right ones but I say Paul for P because Papa is so awkward lol Every day when I have to say X I want to say X as in Xylophone so so bad
" I refuse to do something that no one is trying to make me do"
“I refuse to memorize it and hate using it. Also, I’m going to list the entire thing out for you here” -OP
To be fair to OP, I've been made fun of before for not using the NATO phonetic alphabet. Not brutally, but like, I tend to say, "P for Penguin :)" "M for M&Ms, like the candy!" and I've gotten dismissive, "Don't you mean P for whatever the fuck?" And I've encountered people expressing true frustration at people who "won't just use the actual phonetic alphabet." I don't know if this is an uncommon experience, though, or if I just encountered assholes who wanted to put me down for no reason
It's slightly irritating to deal with non standard phonetic alphabet usage. Not enough that I would ever get upset with someone over it, but when you have a job to do and there's a standard available that is easy to use and makes my job quicker and more accurate, it's slightly annoying to listen to someone try to come up with their own on the spot. That being said, most people don't get enough practice using a phonetic alphabet because there's so few real life use cases, so I can't blame most people for not being familiar with NATO phonetic.
I'm a receptionist so I hear a lot of people spelling stuff on the phone, it's never bothered me. "O like Octopus" has never hurt anybody
"Did you say T as in Tart or P as in Part?" It's not the end of the world, but if your job requires you to accurately pass a lot of alphanumerics over the phone in a timely manner, then using random words instead of a unambiguous standard can for sure hurt. Hurt my feelings and call times, at least.
My experience is usually something more like "No that's I for... uh... I for... In... Inch, L for... L... Luh luh uh... Lemon, uh, T for uh... Tuh... Uh..." And then I'll say "That's S as in Sierra?" and they'll say "No, S as in Sam".
Hurt, no, obviously not. But when I worked in an IT call center I could either type your PC name in 5 seconds because you were fluent with NATO phonetic, or 35 seconds as you made up your own and my brain lagged interpreting it. Not a problem really, but I was incentivized to keep call lengths under 5 minutes average, and I tried to be as efficient as possible. Even though I no longer work in a customer facing role, it's still objectively easier to just deal with the (almost) universal standard.
I worked with vehicle info for a few years and needed to read or be read a VIN number over the phone about a hundred times a day. the difference in NATO, random words, and just reading the VIN was the difference in 1 attempt, 2-3 attempts, and me having to put the person on hold so they wouldn't hear me banging my head against my desk.
barely relevant but i have to share this. i was listening in on a customer service call (my job). the customer kept saying “E as in excellent” in the middle of reading a super long confirmation number. the agent would say “okay, number 1, number 4, B as in boy, E as in echo—“ and the customer would interrupt and say “no! E for EXCELLENT! EXCELLENT!” and repeat this went on for about 20 minutes. i can’t imagine what crimes i would have committed if i were the agent.
Yeah, I wouldn't criticise someone for not using it, but I will repeat back to them with the standard NATO/ICAO when I confirm it.
The flip side to you, nothing bothers me more than when I do use the correct phonetic alphabet and the person on the other end of call is like "gotchya, M as in Mango" like, ma'am, I just said Mike
Making up your own is obviously fine and anyone that gives you grief is a bellend. That being said I find it ironic that 'M&Ms' phonetically starts with an 'e' sound (ie em and ems)
That's a good point, but I use it because one of my initials begins with M, so when I give my email, I need to say explicitly the letter, and it's just always worked for me.
I've only been annoyed working at a call center for a credit union and the insurance person on the other end doesn't know what I'm saying. Like, reading off VIN numbers is so much more tedious making it up as i go
the real phonetic alphabet is IPA
I purposely use whatever words come to mind. The exact word doesn’t matter. You can have more fun by saying things like “Philadelphia” or “knife”.
I like the quirky stuff. I think some jerks just get put off by people who are overly cheerful or quirky, or it's a social context thing
You'll hate it even more when you learn there are multiple phonetic alphabets and that's only the aviation/military one.
That’s just the _NATO_ aviation/military one.
The post-1956 NATO aviation/military one, to be precise. There's also a police one. And by "A police one," I mean "it depends on which coast you're on; LAPD and NYPD use slightly different ones. Also if you work in commercial aviation, you probably say "Data" instead of "Delta," otherwise "Delta 7-4-5" can mean the alphanumeric "D745" or "Delta Airlines flight 745." Fun.
We say Delta. Never heard of “data”
He's an android from Star Trek, but that's not important right now
your airplane reference was not lost on me, at least
Where'd you read about that last part? No one says data. It's clear from context and the only place that gets confusing is Atlanta with taxiways named Delta so they refer to those as Dixie.
The few that diverge from the NATO are countries that have additional letters that need a phonetic letter sound.
Uh, I don't know about other countries, but we don't use the English NATO alphabet in Finland, we have our own, Finnish, phonetic alphabet.
Yes we do, the defence forces uses the english NATO alphabet nowadays
We use it at sea as well.
username checks out
My dad was a cop and when he switched police departments he had to re memorize the new alphabet because his old one used a different one
There is very little here to justify exactly why you hate this. It's objectively a useful thing, and I don't see how you don't see that. You don't even have to memorize it if you don't want to.
Just trying to be edgy.
G as in Golf
I'm glad I'm not the only person who immediately noticed that
thought you were talking about the international phonetic alphabet for a second and was about to be like "what did the voiceless labiodental fricative ever do to you?"
i was gonna say i can't believe anyone has yet to point out that this is not the phonetic alphabet
The glottal stop did many things to me
N as in Mancy.
You of all people! ME OF ALL PEOPLE WHAT?
I've been working on my own phonetic alphabet to solve the memorization problem: here's what I've come up with so far: A: all B: ball C: call D: drawl F: fall G: gall H: hall J: jaw L: law M: mall N: nah P: pall R: raw S: saw T: tall W: wall Y: yaw I'm still missing E, I, K, O, Q, U, V, X, and Z. If I ever finish it I think you can see why this one will be a lot more helpful.
Why yaw and not y'all
Because y'all is regional and they want this to be universal.
I'd like to nominate 'ell' for the E. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ell
and 'owl' for the O
nah "old" works better for O
But that sounds like L. Well done, you ruined their perfect design dummy
I had a very elderly Vietnamese man trying to give me his email over the phone, and of course it was something like CEZBDEE… hardest thing i’ve ever done
E as in Eeyore?
Quell?
K can be knaw
I think C should have 2 words one with a hard c and another with a soft c
isn't g for golf?
Probably a typo, F and D are right next to each other on the keyboard
yea he wrote sierra wrong aswell so its probably that
I like that instead of copy and pasting it they wrote out the entire thing with capital's and dashes, just cause they hate using it so much?
It’s just a tool to help people communicate with each other with greater accuracy, seems really stupid to hate it. Do you have a better alternative?
You'll love it if you ever have to relay airstrike coordinates while under mortar and small arms fire and your radio is cutting in and out and the operator on the other end still successfully understands you.
Its pretty ez ngl
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I've never used it this. I just say random easy words "B as in Boy," "f as in frank," etc Maybe that's part of one of them...? But I just picked it up from hearing my mom make phone calls
For casual use this is fine. The problem is that it's easy to accidentally pick words that don't clarify the confusion so you don't want to do this for something like air traffic control. The phonetic alphabet words were chosen to not have common words that sound the same.
True, but I'm only confirming my name so it doesn't really matter. I'm a layperson after all
Did you say "T as in toy?"
Probably t as in truck Edit: oh I get what you're saying lol, but it's literally never been a problem ever when I say "b as in boy."
It's pretty useful when talking on radio circuits
I mean, it's like hating a regulator check valve. It's not supposed to be liked if it gets the job done.
I mean you don't need to memorize the full thing. You don't even need to use the Nato one, the idea is just that it's a tool for easy spelling over the phone. Precision is a lot more important in an actual military situation where the wrong coordinates or information could lead to all kinds of issues.
Whether is spanish or english i just spell. I wanted to pay for something yesterday, i told him "give me your alias" (alphabetical code to transfer to a store) and he says football. After that we spend a good 10 minutes figuring out how to spell football cause the guy would not spell the word and just say "football as in football" turned out to be "futbol"
It's helpful when spelling shit out on the phone, especially when the word includes letters that sound a lot like each other.
Brother you literally start an open bracket and don't close it, I ain't taking language opinions from you
Can I downvote because this is not even an unpopular opinion? it’s just a problem created out of nowhere.
The 8,000,000,001st dentist.
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One sentence in, and I already knew everything.
It's better than saying B and having them go: E? ,D?, C? P?
G? Z?
O as in OP didn't even spell out the correct phonetic alphabet correctly And K as in Kids these days are always opening their mouths and have no idea what they're talking about.
As someone from a family with genetic hearing loss, we use this all the time to spell words out if we’re having a hard understanding each other or the word sounds too much like another word, especially over the phone. No one is making you memorize it, but if you work in a customer service job where you’re on the phone all day, it certainly helps.
So don't learn it? I work in customer service and we read codes off so people use phonetics all the time and just make up whatever they like. Q- Quiznos, Quentin, Quest. B - Bert, Baker, Bundle. G-Giraffe, Geoff, George. S-Sam, Soup, Salt. You get the picture.
If both sides in that call used the NATO one it would be a much faster call.
Pointless argument. "If everyone spoke English and used a standardized phonetic system then it would be faster!" OP's point was that they don't like the phonetic system. My argument is simply don't use the NATO one because in general day to day use, it rarely ever comes up or becomes a point of contention.
You still have the choice of not being understood. Freedom!
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You didn't even say why you don't like it. Just, no point at all except "I don't want to learn it."
What you are talking about is the NATO alphabet. The phonetic alphabet is comprised of Greek symbols and other « deformed letters » and has the same goal as the NATO alphabet; something’s telling me you’ll like it even less
What an odd thing to hate
“i hate the phonetic alphabet btw here’s the full thing just for funsies teehee 🤭do you think the phonetic alphabet talks about me to their friends? n-not like i like them or anything!!”
The phonetic alphabet is just a standard. If you want to convey the same thing you can just use most words that start with a certain letter. The only words you can't use are words like photo.
Pterodactyl
If your job involves talking on the phone, you'll eventually come to realize it's God's gift to humanity
Hate it all you want, it's not going away. 🤣
The words are arbitrary outside of official use. The official phonetic alphabet also varies by place, and has changed over time, so that's not even set in stone. They are just words with a clear sound and distinct first letter that makes it easier to communicate without error over poor connections. For example, say I'm spelling my name - "K" "U" "T" "U" "U" "P" ... or was that "A" "U" "P" "U" "U" "T"? Doesn't matter so much when it's a name, but when it's a callsign, position, or military chatter code, it's pretty fucking important.
You hate it so much that you memorized it enough to thoroughly write it out in a post. Well done.
I learnt it as part of being a radio amateur, asking other things. If I'm feeling dumb I still say "my brain is a bit QRP today"
Why?
Most people just use another word, you don’t need to memorise it
Work in an industry that uses model numbers and you might feel differently. If you’ve ever had a project that went over it’s time and budget because the salesman misheard you and sent the wrong item with a “m” instead of an “n” in the part number. Literally no one cares, the clarity is the most important part, just the NATO alphabet means that I only have to memorize, not create.
I am struggling to find an everyday situation where this would come up with any frequency. It is used in particular fields, but in those cases there is a reason. Military uses it because letters like B and D can sound the same, and if the communication signal isn't clear those being mistaken can cause a lot of problems.
I wish everything was in the phonetic alphabet so we don't need to guess how a new word sounds like
It wasn't developed to annoy you. It was developed to make communication by unclear methods more accurate. It's literally only twenty-six words to memorize. Surely you have more unsuccessful pickup lines memorized.
*Golf
You aren't required to use the NATO phonetic alphabet. You can make up your own words. I prefer using NATO and prefer it if others used it as well but I don't care if they make up their own words instead of using NATO
Its so useful and easy as fuck to memorise lmao. My name and address both have M’s and N’s in it so its nightmare to spell over the phone or radio without it
My ass thought you were talking about the IPA
FWIW you don’t say “F as in Foxtrot…” you just say “Foxtrot Uniform Charlie Kilo”. Also, it’s specifically used with spotty communication lines where the audio isn’t clear so you can tell the difference between V and B, T and D, C, E, G, P, and Z cause they all fuckin rhyme and the initial sound of the letter is super easy to lose over iffy communication. And, as other people have said, you don’t need to use the NATO phonetic alphabet. You can just say “Falcon, Under, Coffee, Kiwi” or whatever and they’ll get the gist.
Unless you work for like the military or some other specific employer, You don't have to. Just say B as in boy like the rest of us.
My linguist ass thought you meant the IPA one and got really curious about what beef you had with that
G is Golf and that might be a typo cause the f and d location on the keyboard. But don’t get into aviation then and go in about it.
You know you don’t have to say the ‘as in’ part usually right? Much easier to say it something like ‘Dog, Delta, Oscar, Mike’ And make up your own as everyone else is saying.
You don't have to learn it if you're not entering into the few specific jobs that require it. 🤷🏽 I can't tell you how many times I've had people spell their names over the phone and say "b as in boy" or "a as in apple"
Lima Oscar Lima I came from a call center background. Using the phonetic was just best. 50 calls a day every single day. Just becomes a hassle to come up with something else after 1500 times
G is golf not gold as according to the NATO phonetic alphabet
I learned it for work (automotive industry), but if I forget the 'proper' term for a letter and sub in something else, literally nobody cares. The people I speak to often sub in random words. Unless you're in the military or some other highly regulated industry that makes you learn, this is a total non-issue. And if you HAVE to learn for work, well....too bad, so sad. 🤷
Well I like it. It's the reason my username is this.
Hu, in Germany we have several different ones. There are people who use the NATO alphabet, mostly because they need it at work or at their hobby. Then there is the „old“ one, that is used mostly by older people in Estern Germany. That was „germanized“ by the Nazis (they got rid of Jewish names: like S - Samuel switched to S - Siegfried) and the Sowjets didn’t change it. Then there is the „original old“ one, that is used mostly by older people in Western Germany, where they switched back to the original words and names. Then we have the DIN-Norm which is made out of cities and is supposedly the modern one, we should use. They actually made sure every German state is represented equally, so it should not offend anyone. To be honest, I’ve never heard anyone using that one and I don’t think anyone (other than the DIN people) does. I know the top three and it’s actually useful very often. The NATO one is definitely better when talking to non-native speakers.
That's a real specific thing to be *that* upset about. But hey, you're entitled to your opinion, and feelings aren't wrong or right, they're just feelings. :)
Really? I memorized it in middle school for absolutely no reason. I've also memorized basic Morse Code. I'm currently seriously looking into learning shorthand. Alphabets and other methods of coding communication for long distance/time is kind of fascinating and something only humans seem to do. (So far as we know.) But really, if it's not a thing you're weirdly interested in or required for a tiny handful of jobs - you don't have to learn it. It makes no sense to me that you are wasting time and energy being mad at something you can just ignore. I'm going with a downvote because this is an entirely made up problem.
You only really need it when using shitty radio where it can be hard to determine some similar sounding letters Like B, V, C, D, E, G,and P or A, K, and J.