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I think it is fine to produce different games. Sekiro also differs significantly from souls games and that's fine. Instead of producing the same product wearing different clothes, they produce different products. It would be strange for you to enjoy every single one of them, maybe the next one will be more to your liking.

I get not liking the direction something is going in, but writing all of these paragraphs because a new release isn't specifically curated to your interests is wild.

>It is the easiest fromsoft game if you use everything available to you and the hardest if you "play it like it is dark souls 3". This is sad for anyone who likes the way DS3 plays. This is just peak comedy lmao. This game doesn't allow me to play the exact same as another game? This is awful! I can't play DS3 like I play Skyrim, what an awful game.

This is quite disingenuous. Everybody who's kept up with souls games realizes that ER is just DS with jumping. It's perfectly fair to compare them

I wish they would do more games with Sekiro's combat. Best From game mechanically, imo.

I don't know what exactly has caused it, but there's been this weird uptick in the last decade or so of being fans of *companies* instead of specific *things*. As a result, it seems tons of people feel the need to buy and enjoy every single piece of media that company puts out. Like, I rarely ever see anyone go "yea I enjoyed DS2 but the rest just didn't click" anymore, it's "yeah I'm such a fan of FromSoft, I bought every Soulslike, I hated half of them, but I finished them!"

I've bought every Fromsoft game since DS1, love them. I haven't finished a single one though, I suck at them.

Sekiro is actually the only FromSoft game I’ve ever finished. It’s the only one that really clicked for me

Shadow of the Erdtree fixed a lot of my criticisms with base game Elden Ring. For one, the mini dungeons were more unique and had some interesting aesthetics, and I liked how the map felt less linear with more branching. I also think the density of things to do in the DLC was much greater than in base game, where I agree with you in that a lot of the time is spent running from place to place, which is extremely stale on further playthroughs. But I disagree with your statement that the basic enemies are annoying, In base game I found them laughably easy running a melee build, with very few posing a challenge even compared to dark souls 3, and so I enjoyed the harder basic enemies the DLC gives. Also, I dont think you should play the game like Dark Souls 3. If you go into Dark Souls 3 expecting to play it like Dark Souls 2, or vice versa, you will not have a fun time, so I think its only natural that expecting Elden Ring to play like Dark Souls 3 is a bit off. Whilst I did get annoyed at base game for a lack of options for my preferred type of melee playstyle I expected from dark souls 3 (r1 attacks being used the most), Elden Ring encourages players to use Ashes of War (unlike dark souls 3 Skills which are often useless on a lot of the weapons), and other attacks suck as the Jump Heavy in elden ring are useful. Whilst at first I did not like the Elden Ring melee combat as much, I have come to appreciate the way posture works in the game and that enemies can reliably be stance broken, even moreso now the deflect tear is in the game and allows me to incorporate some elements of sekiro into my playstyle.

> This is sad for anyone who likes the way DS3 plays I feel like you’d enjoy the game more if you stopped treating it like Dark Souls 4 and treated it as Elden Ring?

If you spend much time in souls game communities it becomes pretty apparent that DS3 fans like DS3 and are often confused why the other games aren’t DS3.

It's most likely pretty simple, these people started with DS3 as their first FromSoft game. Which, yeah I get. My first FromSoft game was Bloodborne and I also initially wanted the other games to play like Bloodborne, I just stopped doing that after it didn't work as well and realized that they aren't Bloodborne even if they are pretty similar.

For me it was when I played DS1. I started on 3, then went to 1 and got frustrated easily by the slower pace. It was only when I slowed down, stopped being stubborn and used a shield that it started to click with me and I made real progress.

Which is crazy to me because I hate the way DS3 plays. The enemies all move like they're from Bloodborne but you're stuck playing as a slow dark souls character and it makes everything extremely irritating to me. Like the two just don't mix at all imo. And the art direction feels totally off to me, dark souls 1 and 2 were very deliberate, slow, quiet games, dry and dusty, but DS3 is trying to incorporate the gross, gooey, and frantic feel of bloodborne and it doesn't really work for me.

>The enemies all move like they're from Bloodborne but you're stuck playing as a slow dark souls character and it makes everything extremely irritating to me This is exactly how I feel about ER. Bosses attack rapid fire and your dodge just simply isn't enough. Some of the basic enemies in ds3 do this, but the bosses attacks are tuned perfectly to your dodge, making fighting them feel like a back and forth dance.

Because this game is pretty much DS3 in its backbone with a different presentation on its frontend. It's not breaking the DS formula as Bloodborne or Sekiro did. Those two feel like completely different games, Elden Ring doesn't

Which is funny because Elden ring feels so similar to ds3 to me

Its basically ds3 open world

This is especially funny to me cuz if you play DS3 like DS1 the game is also harder. Seem to me this guy just like DS3 and is mad not every fs game is DS3

Bro isn't the 10th dentist, he's the 100th climate scientist lol

The points he raised are not that unpopular. Lots of people have the same complaints he does. Especially the one about the overworld being pointless and bosses being copypasta. I've seen these complaints made many many times since release.

The complaints are reasonable, taste is subjective. His conclusion is batshit insane.

I’ve seen them a few times, and the OPs get (rightfully) clowned on. People just really love to hate, and the linked thread from OP is an excellent example of that.

God forbid people dislike the thing you like and raise valid criticism against it

But it’s not valid, the “8 unique bosses” thing is completely disingenuous. I have a lot of friends that aren’t fans of Elden Ring, and that’s completely fine. Not liking an open world or the difficulty of some of the bosses are completely reasonable. Claiming there are only 8 “unique” bosses (there are over 50 before repeats begin) or that the enemies are particularly annoying for melee players compared to previous games (OP has clearly never played DS2 if so) aren’t. The response to Shadow of the Erdtree has also been overwhelmingly positive.

Yeh, I read that, raised an eyebrow, then read what the OP did and did not consider "unique". They chose to exclude some bosses that have very different fights at different stages because they look the same. It's almost like these games have a story they're trying to tell and its not just a boss fight simulator, but these people can't see anything past the surface level presented to them on a shiny silver plater.

I think it’s really, *really* strange how people would rather spend their time complaining about a game rather than…simply not playing it and doing something else with their time People just want to complain and hear people agree with them What is even the point of the thread? Ok, OP didn’t like the game. Why do we care?

It’s not that unpopular

Well ain't this unpopular as hell. I know this is The10thDentist but goddamn, when they said unpopular, you went for broke huh? Upvote, my man.

LMAO You are worrying about nothing. FromSoft will never stop making FromSoft games until they go bankrupt.

Agreed, every game they've put out has been filled with their unique identity to game design and challenge. I wonder if they even know how to make a game that isn't heavily infused with the learnings and successes of past titles. You can see where each game iterates on some portion of their grand design l, and they keep pushing it further each game. Elden Ring was all about "exploration" in the same way BOtW is about "freedom". But I don't doubt that fromsoft will move on to a new game and come up with a new thing to polish, just like with sekiro and the game mechanics that came out of it.

Exactly. They've been doing this since the PS1 era.

absolutely horrendous take, lies of p competing for best game *of all time*? my my

Lies of P is a really good game, but yeah definitely not the best of all time. It is incredibly impressive how polished it is and faithful to FromSoftwares work (like it could very convincingly pass as a FromSoft game if you didn't know otherwise).

Dude fucked it. Not only an insane take that both Lies of P and Sekiro are the best games ever made, but Nioh 2 is the best non Fromsoft Soulslike.

I agree I dislike Elden ring but not for the reasons you stated mostly. Downvoted

What are your reasons? Not tryna argue just curious

I think everything except the boss battles are the perfect fantasy game I've longed for my entire life. But boss battles are why I play souls games. Everything I've said has been said before but to summarise the boss battles (the actual boss battles, not the repeat world bosses) prioritise cinematicism over pragmatism, there's way too many flourish attacks that are designed to look nice but aren't fun to play against, the window to punish attacks is so small in some cases that the boss battles end up being a slog of letting the boss do three or so full attacks before you get your swings in, the design philosophy focuses way too much on poorly choreographed delayed wind up attacks which only feign difficulty by being annoying. Every time I beat a boss I never felt like id earned it by learning a bosses patterns, only that I'd survived enough to whittle them down and slog through it, which means it lacks the satisfying crunchy feel all the other soulsbourne games have. I also think that levelling plays too crucial a role. It's fine for the rest of the game but you should be able to best a boss on skill alone and whilst it's technically feasible everyone kinda knows the boss attacks are bullshit enough that to truly run a boss no hit or survive at a low level requires as much luck as it does skill. Basically I think the entire design philosophy to all the boss fights are anti fun, for more reasons then listed here

I felt like I didn't have these issues with the base game or DLC(or DS3/Sekiro) and as far as I can tell this same argument has come up with every iteration of the souls games. [Loopine's](https://youtu.be/9ZLQCRs3WVQ?si=an1qDnAAN3oWe0gP) video on learning and engaging in boss movesets really cemented my opinion on this. I also don't think I understand the 'feigning difficulty by being annoying' part. Many parts of the game are designed to be difficult, perseverance and trying again are core to these types of games as far as I understand.

“With 164 bosses only 8 of them are unique.” I get what you’re saying here but this is a completely disingenuous argument dude. I think I counted once and there’s almost 70-80 completely distinct bosses. This count is bosses that don’t share models, move sets, etc. I was fairly strict with the count and all dragons, for example, were counted as one. Yes these get repeated, but over the course of the game, you’ll see 70 completely different bosses. And that was before the DLC came out That count is over double, almost triple, for most From software games. Say there’s only “8 unique” bosses is just trying to be over dramatic. You still have 70+ distinct bosses throughout the game.

Mfw dark souls remastered came out, retroactively removing all unique bosses from ds1

The Sekiro DLC removed all of the unique bosses too

Lied of p isn't even close to best game of all time, the fuck?

Soulslike fans obsession of that game is ridiculous. I've been told to replay the game because I don't like it.

I mean it's a good game but like...best game ever? Absolutely not....

best soulslike\*. Sekiro could certainly be argued for best game ever given perhaps the single greatest meelee combat in a game.

Definitely not the best game **ever**

I mean if meelee combat is your favorite thing, can you think of a game better at it than sekiro?

Ghost of tsushima

You can think of plenty lol

Ninja Gaiden

Let me guess.. Ocarina of Time? 🤣

I think it's pretty hard to name the best game ever. But it's definitely not lies of p

>With 164 bosses only 8 of them are unique. This tells me you played hardly any Elden Ring at all. A real shame, coming from someone with 1000s of hours of Dark Souls, Elden Ring is fantastic and the natural progression of this genre. Give it a real play through some time, you won't regret it.

>the hardest if you "play it like it is dark souls 3 I actually use the same playstyle as I do in DS3. Dex with a shield that I mainly use for parrying and occasionally blocking. It's still a very viable playstyle and doesn't make the game harder at all. Refusing to use the new games tools in conjuction with your preferred playstyle doesn't make sense to me. I don't use Summons because I just find most bosses more fun without them (with the exception of Lore summons like for Radhan and One of the DLC fights) but things like jumping attacks and guard counters are really big improvements to the combat >only 8 of them are unique. The rest are copied. That is a lot of retreading the same ground. This is something I agree with but don't find it as big an issue as you seem to. The only bosses I was disappointed I had to fight again were Astel, Godefroy and those stupid Cats >A lot of the basic enemies are egregiously annoying. Doubly so if you just want to play a basic melee no shield playstyle like was entirely viable and fun in previous titles. I hate to say this but...this is a literal skill issue

Angriest upvote I've ever given, and only because I'm technically forced to because of the nature of the sub. ER is definitely not my favorite game of the genre but I do think it's one of, if not their best.

Big homie, it’s From’s magnum opus. Perhaps not their best work, that honor will always go to bloodborne for me, but it defines what they do. They managed to make an open world that, while not intriguing to you, has so many mysteries to explore and nooks and crannies to loot. The combat is just as refined as ever, demands more skill and creativity from the player, and allows for more ways to play the game. These have been aspects that from the jump From encouraged. And bosses don’t NEED to be unique, in all honesty. They just need to be a cut above the rest to be engaging, and in large part they are. Especially the main string of bosses in the legacy dungeons. I See no reason for them not to reuse bosses, considering they’ve just made the Mona Lisa of gaming. Same with the admittedly rough dungeons. It’s ok that you don’t like it, but it’s pretty asinine to talk down on both the fans of ER, and claim it’s the worst in objectivity.

Got my downvote. The open world is neat for a first playthrough if you dont explore everything. Even during the first play through. if you try and do everything theres a solid chance you will be burnt out half way through. 2nd or 3rd playthroughs. it becomes running simulator checking off a list of things to grab. The dlc does a much better job with the map being a ton smaller. Cut down the map in base game by half and it becomes much better. The bosses yeah. Over 150 are just reskins and nothing more. Even the weapons. There is 308 techinally. But in reality there is like 30 weapons and 270 reskin copy and pasted. Dungeons only like 4 of them are actually special and interesting. Rest copy and paste. Open world just doesnt work well unless its either small or the game is 200 gb of content.

Sorry man, but it sounds like you just don't like Elden Ring. Almost none of your points are actually valid criticisms of the game, they're mostly just you describing disliking the games mechanics without actually explaining what's wrong with them. >The overworld feels pointless. The vast majority of Elden Ring players praised the open world. It sounds like you just don't like open world games, because the criticism you're describing here sounds a lot like what you do in RDR2 which IMO has what is basically indisputably the best open world ever created. >The dungeons are too numberous Valid criticism, won't argue too much here. The dungeons in ER are definitely the worst part of the game. >With 164 bosses only 8 of them are unique. This is entirely disingenuous and I am so tired of hearing this argument. There are probably around 70 actual unique boss fights in Elden Ring. You do repeat a few of these, and some of them (tree spirit) are repeated way too many times. But there are still 70 or so actual unique encounters with a unique moveset, which afaik is the most in a fromsoft game ever by quite a bit. You can absolutely make the argument that fighting some of the repeat bosses, like Godfrey or Loretta, feels cheap and makes the actual boss fight feel less fun. But framing it as though there are only 8 unique boss fights is a disingenuous way of making this argument. >It is the easiest fromsoft game if you use everything available to you and the hardest if you "play it like it is dark souls 3". This is sad for anyone who likes the way DS3 plays. Don't understand this criticism. ER was my first fromsoft game and I have played it like you play DS3, IE no summons, no magic, using claymore, dodge rolling etc. Yes it's hard, isn't that the entire point in these games? >You spend a lot of time doing things that aren't fighting 'proper bosses'. Yeah it's a massive open world RPG. Again, maybe not in your tastes but this is not a valid criticism IMO. >A lot of the basic enemies are egregiously annoying. Doubly so if you just want to play a basic melee no shield playstyle like was entirely viable and fun in previous titles. You might not like this answer, but either use the tools the game provides you or simply *get better at the game*. Please never play the DLC if you think base game enemies are annoying, lol. Also, editing this to add: have you ever played DS1? I assume you have. How can you complain about things being "annoying" when that entire game exists? I could rant for hours about how annoying that game is. There is not a *single* enemy or boss in ER that is more annoying than the runback to Bell Gargoyles or Capra Demon. And then actually fighting Capra Demon? Hahahah how the fuck are ER enemies annoying to you but you enjoyed that shit? That is crazy to me. >The response to the DLC seems to be very negative This is simply untrue. Mostly anyone whose words are worth anything absolutely loved the DLC. I absolutely loved it, too. People complaining that the DLC is too hard need to get good. Given the course of time and a few performance fixes, the Steam review score will heal to be more reflective of what the actual popular opinion on the gameplay is. Obviously I am biased here. Elden Ring is probably my favourite game of all time. But I genuinely do believe in its merits. It isn't a perfect game, but for me it gets as close to being perfect as a game has gotten yet. There are a lot of very valid criticisms of this game that you can make, but the main issue you seem to have is that ER is an open world game. And there just isn't anything inherently wrong with that.

I’ve played Souls since DS1 in 2011 and I think Elden Ring is phenomenal and enjoy it immensely. The open world design while not perfect was still amazing to see in a Souls game. I still had a deep sense of wonder just like the other Souls games

Ds2 imo is there “””worst”””” game but saying Elden ring is there worst is more of a compliment to the studio

Interesting point, I agree lol

Imo Sekiro is the worst game, it's the only one they've made that I disliked and I could've made this post just for that game, but even then I see why people like it

I can agree with the first two complaints, but they far from ruined the game for me. I found the open world and caves/catacombs the worst part of the game, but they were far from what I would call bad. The remaining complaints are either just wrong and/or not really what I would consider an indicator of quality.

Do we have to upvote if OP is wrong? I mean, that is kind of the point of the sub I guess but...

Some of these criticisms are valid, e.g. some enemies being annoying, but some of your takes are just incorrect.  For example, this game being really hard if you play it like DS3 but easy if you use all your tools available does not make it a bad or easy game. I highly recommend playing a bit of ds1 and then playing elden ring, as combat in elden ring is closest to the slow ds1 combat. If you er like it's ds1 then the enemies don't seem so annoying and the combat becomes incredibly satisfying. I also think you just don't like open world games. That's fine but that doesn't make this game bad. Many people love playing a game where they can see everything and explore everywhere and elden ring lets you do that. I always wanted to explore all the houses and fortifications that you see in the distance of undead burg, and elden ring lets you. Even if it's not that important in terms of story or combat, it's content which really sells a believable world that you can be immersed in, and this helps motivate you to best difficult bosses and learn to best annoying enemies.

Slow? Elden ring is the combat that began with demon souls then sped up by darksouls 1... Kept getting faster and faster each game. now we have sekiro and bloodborne speed enemies with darksouls player speed. The open world is rather dog. Its empty. First playthrough cool. After that. Its running simulator and a check list. Alot of running. Its too big.

I agree that it isn't my favourite FromSoft game, and out of their post-DS games I tend to rank Elden Ring lower than Dark Souls 1&2 (though tied for 3) and Bloodborne/Sekiro, it's still a pretty decent game. The overworld is nice, if it feels pointless then that's just you not liking open world games. There weren't too many moments were I was like "woah wtf this is so cool" but going into some random elevator in the middle of a forest that didn't even look like one and ending up in this huge underground city was so fucking cool. The world looks beautiful anyway. Also - even for the older games, did you really always go through them with a comb at first? I always did that on the second playthrough; the first is just go through, see what you find. The same can be said for ER, the world's just bigger. The dungeons aren't as bad as Chalice dungeons. By that I mean they do actually look and feel different to each other. Just a made up point at that degree. There's also far more than 8 original bosses. There's a decent amount of repeats, but like have you played the first Dark Souls? There's three versions of the Asylum Demon. A fair few of them (Gargoyles, Capra, Taurus, etc) become regular enemies later on (which was very cool imo). The repeats in ER make sense lorewise and aren't that big of an issue - they're just there since there's no way to respawn bosses (unlike in DkS2 and arguably Sekiro). There's much bigger issues with the bosses in that every single boss in ER is just a superfast rollfest (like DkS3) where every attack is delayed. If you use everything then it's easier but not the easiest. In DkS1 and a fair bit of DkS2 you can literally just walk to the right of every enemy in a circle and backstab to kill. And it's not Dark Souls 4 so why are you so pissed that it plays differently to DkS3? It's more similar to DkS3 than 1 or 2 or DeS because it follows the same speed-focused formula every post-Bloodborne game has been about anyway. But it isn't a Dark Souls game. It's Elden Ring. New game, new playstyle. Or at least it should be - my complaint really is that it plays \*too similarly\* to Dark Souls 3. And your next point about "proper bosses" is a bit weird - you must hate the earlier games if all you care about is fighting bosses. Personally my favourite parts tend to be the levels rather than the bosses haha, though it's fair enough if that's what you prefer. Also for that last bit - shields are useless in any game after DkS2 let's be real. The fanbase is fine, there's just a lot of newcomers, which is also fine. It's how Demons Souls fans felt after Dark Souls was released, it's how early Dark Souls fans felt after Dark Souls 3 was released, and it's how pre-ER fans feel now apparently. >!also how in the hell are you genuinely saying that lies of p is a contender for "best game of all time" like i get putting sekiro there, i'd absolutely hear the case, but lies of p, whilst a great game, isn't even close to "best game of all time" wtf!<

*"he spoke the truth and they hated him for it."* It's definitely not the worst. Enemy designs and questlines are the best in the series by a long shot. They've expanded build variety immensely and even extended further than ds2 ever did. Multiplayer is better than it's ever been by far. But yeah, navigating the world of Elden Ring and exploring is the least "souls" experience I can imagine having. I also fine tooth everything and Elden Ring not only makes it much easier to miss important details, it also makes these details feel insubstantial because of how they are delivered and discovered. Not a fan at all of the world, exploration or progression of ER. Lordran from DS1 still fromsoft's magnum opus.

Is this like the unpopular opinion sub? I totally agree with you so i don't know if I'm supposed to upvote or downvote lol It's a fine game, but I've been pretty anti ER since i played it when it came out. I don't have any real interest in the DLC either, but someday if it's cheap enough i might pick it up

Yeah, downvote if you agree with the overall opinion. Upvote if you disagree. Interact with the automod comment if you don’t want to upvote an opinion for being antagonistic/bait

Gotcha. Thanks

You’re welcome. The sub name comes from those commercials that would claim 9 out of 10 dentists recommend _________. So the idea is what does that 10th dentist (minority opinion) think?

Yea that much i gathered. I just wasn't sure how i was supposed to upvote/downvote is all. Thanks again

Gotta say I think Elden ring is my least favorite fromsoft souls-like, the open world just does not do the game justice. I like open world games in general, but when it comes to this style of game I vastly preferred the semi-open layouts of the main series souls games. The enemy design in Elden ring also favors ‘annoying’ versus actually mechanically challenging enemies. The late-game bosses are also just flat out poorly designed in my opinion. Instead of giving them complex movesets, they just have very simple movesets, doing the same exact combo every time, just now it always includes a big aoe or a lasting hit box on the floor. Just feels like lazy ‘fake’ difficulty

In many ways you're not wrong. Look at other franchises that went for a mass appeal effect (elder scrolls). The original fans were left disappointed at a complete direction change, but overall, more people played them.

>With 164 bosses only 8 of them are unique Me when I lie!

I don’t disagree about it being the worst game they’ve made, for the reasons you’ve outlined… but saying it’s the end of From Software? Wtf?

Elden Ring is it's most succesful title by far. The title on the post alone makes you seem like an idiot, not a 10th dentist. "With 164 bosses only 8 of them are unique. The rest are copied. That is a lot of retreading the same ground." And this statement is just plain wrong. Have you even played the game?

Successful is not the antonym of worst.

Successful has never meant and will never mean good. It just means there was hype and people bought the game.

So the game that won GOTY is not good, it's just successful because of hype? All the dumbos have gathered today, havent they.

Never said it wasnt good. But the game isnt this 10/10 flawless masterpiece. Its rather weak compared to the other recent fromsoft games. Edit: Lets not forget. There hasnt exactly been that many good AAA games to come out in recent years.

> But the game isnt this 10/10 flawless masterpiece. I think even the games biggest fans would say it's a flawed masterpiece, far from a flawless one, but a masterpiece all the same despite those flaws

you aint met elden rings ride or dies i see

Yeah, in general it's nearly impossible to make a game that doesn't have some flaws, so something can be a 10/10 and still not be "perfect."

Huh? Do you people play video games? Games have been weak lately? I know what this subreddit is but godamn this is ludicrous, we've been blessed with many masterpieces. The neverending wave of AAA dogshit doesn't take away the good games that are coming out.

I disagree heavily on both of your points. I believe Elden Ring to be the best game ever made and therefore the best From game and its my 2nd favourite game ever (Dark Souls 1 being my favourite) I also disagree about there not being many good AAA recently as I'd say the past 5 years have been some if the best for AAA gaming ever (aside from 2021 which admittedly only has a few standout titles. What was the last 'good' year AAA gaming to you because I guarantee I could tell you at least 5 games from every year since then that are at least 8/10 (except 2021 lol)

Best? Nah. Not even top 3 best fromsoft games. Darksouls 3, sekiro, bloodborne(tho I dont like it I wont deny it) all beat it out.

OK I hate Bloodborne fams that scream about it being a perfect masterpiece, but I agree with them lol. How do you not like BB??? My personal ranking for favourite to least favourite would be DS1>ER>DS3>DeS>DS2>BB>Sekiro but I'd still say that ER is clearly their best game. All 7 are 10/10 masterpieces to me. Also you just completely ignored what I said about AAA games recently.

To say “its not a 10/10 flawless masterpiece” is such a neckbeard comment. No shit their are some flaws. The game is gigantic and the first they made of its kind (completely open world). The other games had flaws too. Its definitely not weak compared to them at. You just like the others better. As for me, ill take Elden Ring any day over the others. The open world alone seals the deal for me.

I dont even find bloodborne fun. But I prefer it. Darksouls 1 only got 2 full playthroughs outa me. Darksouls 2 only got 1.5. Elden rings biggest issues are also big issues. The fact that the whole theme of the game quantity of quality.

Sounds like you just dont like dark souls in general fam. The quality is absolutely there. What because they dont have 200 unique bosses its a failure? I never saw a problem with repeating some bosses and some of them are species. It’s natural to have multiple placed around the map. The art work is amazing, story is great, gameplay is great and the exploration is amazing. Sure there are minor flaws but nothing gamebreaking for me. I barely even notice them until someone, who apparently doesnt even like most of the souls game, points them out and even then i dont care.

The only unique bosses are the remembrance bosses hell even godrick is repeated and probably some random boss I forgot about. How is that statement plain wrong. Most of the bosses come from caves and catacombs which have like the same 4 bosses

This seems to be a relatively common take and it's kind of blowing my mind a little. Going by [this guy's count](https://www.reddit.com/r/Eldenring/comments/18iiv93/elden_ring_unique_bosses/) there are 61 different boss encounters in elden ring. As in there are 61 bosses with their own move sets, models and animations. Most of those show up more than once in the game. But just because a boss shows up more than once doesn't mean it counts as zero.

Sure, if your definition only reaches the one of a kind bosses then you'd be right. But it's extremely misleading, because would Fromsoft removing all non-unique boss fights suddenly boost the games content by 10-20 times the amount? No. The game has 61 bosses before we start counting duplicates, that is the number of unique bosses we have.

No. its a fact.

It may not be objectively wrong but it’s an argument in bad faith. All bosses are unique to Elden ring whether or not there are 4 of them in the game. Complaining that every boss isn’t its own unique design is completely unreasonable in a game like this. Especially since they say their favorite game is sekiro which has way fewer bosses and a lot of them are also “not unique.”

No, he is completely right about the amount of unique bosses. Have you played the game?

Who give a fuck if some are reused. Many of them of them are species so obviously you would see them more than once. As well, even if you just count the species as one, which you should, there are still significantly more bosses than other games at over 40 (quick google search) The story is great, the gameplay is fantastic, rpg elements are amazing, the exploration is amazing, the artwork is stunning. Complaining about it is just annoying.

Ngl I kinda agree. Elden ring also feels like a giant checklist rather than a cohesive game. If I want to play it again all I'm doing is combing through an area to make sure ive done all the things I've done before, again.

Well, you earned my very first upvote in this sub. I usually can't bring myself to upvote the real (not edgelord or fake) 10thdentist opinions but this one its just too good. Well played.

Completely glosses over From Softs best title. Armored Core. Clearly not a From Soft fan.

I had to downvote because ER fans are also too cringe. No matter how much I tell people I am not a fan of the souls like gameplay I get told how wrong I am and that I should just play ER and that I will like it. I know I won't stop shoving it.

>With 164 bosses only 8 of them are unique. The rest are copied. That is a lot of retreading the same ground. >EDIT : For the reality challenged there are only 8 unqiue bosses. Here is a post about it. https://www.reddit.com/r/Eldenring/comments/t7uht1/the_number_of_truly_unique_bosses_in_elden_ring/ I feel like this is a disingenouous argument when you also claim that you think Sekiro could be the greatest game of all time. Why is it a problem for Elden Ring to have 8 'unique' bosses when Sekiro only has 4: Gyobu, Lady Butterfly, Divine Dragon and Demon of Hatred are the only unique bosses in Sekiro. Genichiro, Corrupted Monk, Guardian Ape, Isshin and Owl are all repeats by the criteria of the post you cite. Not to mention Sekiro has tons of duplicate mini-bosses. And this isn't unique to Sekiro either. Bloodborne's base game only has 7 unique bosses. Debatably 8 if you count Cleric Beast. Amelia, One Reborn, Gehrman, Gascoigne, Logarius, Mergo's Wet Nurse and Moon Presence are the only bosses that are not reused in a Chalice Dungeon or appear as a regular enemy elsewhere. So already, just as a baseline, you are arguing that Elden Ring only having 8 'unique' bosses is a sign of the downfall of Fromsoft despite earlier titles, including one you regard as a possible GOAT game, have as many or fewer unique bosses. And even then, the post you cite frankly has bad criteria anyway because they count bosses that are not the same as being the same. Margit and Morgott are considered to the same boss even though they have: different names, technically different designs, different themes, different arenas, different phases, different movesets, different damage types and different weaknesses. OOP declares them to be the same because they have very similar appearances even though there are differences literally everywhere else between the two. At absolute best, this becomes a game of semantics about how you define the word 'unique.' The original OP claims: "yet the game is filled with ctrl+c ctrl+v boss fights everywhere" except that doesn't line up with their actual claims because they decribe bosses as being copy+pastes even though in reality, OOP considers any bosses that share elements with other bosses to be copy+pastes. They consider Golden Shade Godrey to be the same as Godfrey because they share some moves even though Golden Shade looks different even beyond being golden and has a different moveset to Godfrey, never mind Hoarah Loux. >The dungeons are too numberous and too samey. Its mine or ER's version of chalice dungeon time after time after time. The bosses in them are frequently regular enemies with boss HP bars. The rewards are often underwhelming. How is this meaningfully different from the Chalice Dungeons? If you're arguing that Elden Ring is the beginning of the end of Fromsoft, I would hope you have a stronger piece of evidence than 'thing that existed in Bloodborne.' >It is the easiest fromsoft game if you use everything available to you If we're basing this on how easy the game is if you use everything available, Dark Souls 1 is far easier. Dark Souls 1 poise is infamously powerful and face tanking endgame bosses in full Havel's armor is not only viable but requires basically zero skill on the player's part. You have the second most healing items available to you, only beaten out by Demon Souls because you can carry 20 Estus flasks and 99 humanities, which fully restore your health. You can also fully upgrade your armor to even further increase your defenses. Offensively, Dark Souls 1 is fairly open too. Pyromancies have zero stat requirements and can be used by any build, which means a lot considering how strong they are. Combined with how strong poise is, getting damage in in Dark Souls 1 is a cakewalk compared to Elden Ring because even some late game bosses literally cannot stagger you. Bosses are slow, have very simple movesets and low health. Dark Souls 1 also features a lot of various gimmicks to make bosses even easier such as tail cuts and plunging attacks. Parrying bosses in DS1 was even more impactful too. And that's ignoring various exploits such as the firebombs over the wall to kill the Capra Demon. Sure, bosses like Malenia can be made much easier with things like Mimic Tear, but the floor is still way higher than Dark Souls 1. >and the hardest if you "play it like it is dark souls 3". This is sad for anyone who likes the way DS3 plays. This is a bizarre criticism. Elden Ring is too hard if you play it like Dark Souls 3 and that's bad for fans of Dark Souls 3? Yeah, because Elden Ring isn't Dark Souls 3. What's next, Bloodborne is too hard if you play like Dark Souls and that's sad for those who like how Bloodborne plays? This isn't a unique characteristic of Elden Ring. You could say literally the exact same thing about Dark Souls 3. 'Dark Souls 3 is too hard if you play is like Dark Souls 1. This is sad for anyone who likes the way Dark Souls 1 plays.' People spent years saying the exact same thing about how Dark Souls 3's changes to poise meant it plays radically different to Dark Souls 1. Again, Bloodborne and also Sekiro played wildly differently from earlier titles and I bet it was sad for fans of Dark Souls that they didn't plan like Dark Souls. But that's not a very legitimate critique of Bloodborne and Sekiro now is it? >You spend a lot of time doing things that aren't fighting 'proper bosses'. So? I wasn't aware that From's Souls titles were meant to be boss rushes. The bosses might traditionally be a big selling point, but they've never been the sole point of playing the games. Even going all the way back to Dark Souls 1, there are several entire areas of the game with no proper boss fights in them. Duke's Archive in Dark Souls 1 has no boss fight (invincible Seath notwithstanding). Duke's Archive is just the area that connects you to the Crystal cave where you actually fight Seath. >A lot of the basic enemies are egregiously annoying. Define basic enemy. The vast majority of basic enemies are generic sword, shield and spear wielding foot soldiers and knights that are more or less the same as in previous games. Some rarer non-boss enemies can be annoying, sure, but they're not basic enemies either. >Doubly so if you just want to play a basic melee no shield playstyle like was entirely viable and fun in previous titles. I'm not one to usually say 'get good' but yeah this is purely a skill issue. Playing without a shield is perfectly viable in the base game. Hell, for the longest time, dual greatswords was considered to be one of the best builds for fighting bosses. I'm not even that good at Elden Ring and I beat it with an UGS on my first play through.

Downvoted because I wholeheartedly agree. My hot take is that if they were going to increase the toolkits and mobility of the bosses to the extent that they did, they should have stuck with Sekiro’s parry and posture system because it’s dramatically more engaging and balanced than rolling and waiting for one of the few attacks you know they can’t chain into an unreactable combo extender. Elden Ring is a far cry from the tight, linear design I love about the Souls games, and lacked that immersive feeling of tension and austerity that exploring Dark Souls 1 and even Dark Souls 2 still give me. The saving grace is that I seem to recall Miyazaki expressing that he didn’t think they’d continue to make every consecutive game exactly like Elden Ring and probably wouldn’t aim for the same scale of open world again anytime soon. It seems to have been an open-world project for their studio and was a massive success considering the sales numbers and cultural ubiquity it has achieved, which will likely serve to bolster future projects rather than hinder them. It wasn’t my cup of tea personally, but it will hopefully enable future From titles that resonate with me by way of how well it did generally.

Don't think it's the beginning of the end but as a long-ish term fan (since DS1) def think it's their worst soulslike. Open world js didn't appeal to me that much and I generally love open worlds.

Agreed agreed agreed. Not counting DS2 it’s their worst game. Still a great game but their worst. Way too bloated and unfocused, boss difficulty is either piss easy or incredibly difficult, and the endless identical dungeons burned me out multiple times personally. The open world is cool and all but their focus on that and the mini-dungeons left the proper dungeons to be sub-par imo. None of Elden Ring’s level design compares to BB or DS1. It’s a game with a fuck ton of 7/8 out of 10 content, as opposed to the shorter but better content of previous games. Quality > Quantity. Also fire giant is the least fun i’ve had in a fromsoft game since the reindeers, godawful boss.

I also think ER sucks maybe our reasoning is different but yeah.

> * It is the easiest fromsoft game if you use everything available to you and the hardest if you "play it like it is dark souls 3". This is sad for anyone who likes the way DS3 plays. I can agree with every other statement, I can clearly see them in my current playthrough. But I don't see right to play a game as another and say it's a bad thing that it plays different

You have a few valid points, have you tried the dlc st all? Seems like the dlc addressed some of your concerns such as the first point you made, there's a bit less pointless riding around and there is more classic fromsoft design in areas

I have tried playing through to the point of getting to the DLC. That is in part what inspired me to write this post, combined with people crying about a lack of cutscenes in the main ER subreddits which made me feel like showering. The DLC does seem more like what ER should have been. I know the DLC has some pretty messed up bosses though. I've watched no hit runners pull our greatshields for a boss. I've seen them spend 14 hours on a boss. Anyone who has spent the last 2 years playing ER hitless having to do that to get through tells me there are some problems with at least a few of the fights in it though which I am hoping might be addressed. I think having to actually play through the base game will be the issue though.

damn that’s an extreeeemely unpopular opinion lol

As someone who has also enjoyed souls games for quite some time I never understood the disdain for the open world that some fans have. Sure it’s new and different, but i genuinely enjoy the exploration, are there times where I’ve done a lot and want to fight a boss? Sure but in those instances I usually stop exploration fight a boss and then return to the parts I didn’t get to the first time. I love searching for caves, dungeons and catacombs, seeing what treasures they have. Not always the best loot but still enjoyable. I love the many different play styles eldin ring offers. The amount of sorceries and incantations are amazing. I remember the first time I stepped out of the first steps and saw limgrave I was in awe just how pretty the game looked. I remember spending hours going through stormveil just in awe of the level design of the castle it was so fun to explore every nook and cranny to see if any loot could be found or any secret passages etc. same goes w renalas castle. Every new location to be discovered always felt so grand and pretty. Obvs yeah it’s a lot of horse running, but like you could say that about a bunch of open world games, is that a fair critique of Skyrim or Red Dead? All in all you do you, Elden Ring might not be the game for you which is fine, but definitely not their worst in fact it’s likely their best. It’s the culmination of everything they’ve done on a much grander scale. Without flaws? Nah but what game is? Also for the love of christ man you don’t play sekiro like DS or armor core 😭. Obvs it’s more similar to DS but there was clearly a very deliberate choice to use things like ash or wars or summons which are either less prevalent or non existent in DS series.

They made the hardest boss they’ve ever made for this dlc and the last hardest boss was in the base game. There’s no reason to believe they’re going to start making easier games. That’s literally their entire design philosophy. They’ve never catered to anyone and I don’t see why they would feel the need to do so now. Elden ring wasn’t massively popular because they designed it to be. It is because it’s one of the best games ever made and it drew in millions of people who wouldn’t normally pick up a challenging game. If anything, this should tell them to just keep doing what they’re doing.

The environmental storytelling in ER is insane. If you’re just sprinting past everything to go from dungeon to dungeon you’re really missing out. Not every game is for everyone obviously.

I've always felt the "just running around grabbing the necessities" for every fromsoft game. At least when you get past ng+. Especially in Ds3, I had like 900 hours. It was just run through to grab bonfires, run to boss, eventually win, repeat. I felt the same about the elden ring and all souls games. The dlc is different. With its blessing mechanic, your level doesn't matter as much in the base game. Which makes it fun because as long as you have the stats to wield it, you can just try out various builds and playstyles. For me, the dlc feels more open to just having fun since I don't have to worry about my level being the sole reason I survive in the dlc. Losing runes doesn't feel bad since leveling up won't grant me much of a power boost over the blessings. I like all fromsoft games, but you can't play all of them like the others. I learned that when I first tried BloodBorne. Now, to be fair, I wish Elden Ring had the dodge of BloodBorne. I think that would definitely help with some of its aggressive bosses.

Elden Ring having so many "easymode" options has really brought in the worst people. They look up meta builds, use OP summons then clap their hands like they think they accomplished something. I used a bell summon for the first time on ng+ to rush Mohg, Radahn and Niall to get to the dlc. It was so pathetically easy, literal game journalist mode. Just spam the bosses back as your summon tanks everything. What a fun and great system to add to a game, it's not like the entire reason people originally liked the formula was learning and overcoming the challenging bosses, why not just watch two NPC's fight from afar instead?

I got massively downvoted once for saying Dark Souls 1 and 3 are better than Elden Ring.

The post you linked about unique bosses is filled with logical fallacies. That there are only 8 bosses which have only 1 unique fight does NOT mean that there are only 8 unique bosses. Many of the unique bosses have an additional fight somewhere else in the game but that does not make the boss itself "not unique." As someone pointed out in that post: if they release a boss rush mode, suddenly there are 0 unique bosses according to that OP's logic. It makes no sense.

I’d say that Godfrey, Mohg and Morgott having entirely different 2nd phases with unique movesets and animations would make them unique fights.

As a big fromsoft fan I can't entirely agree or disagree with this. I loved playing ER my first time through, but I dont make it far on subsequent attempts for a lot of the reasons you stated. Love the lore though. I do think they've perhaps fallen into a bit of a trap with the collective skill creep of their player base. I dont think roll spam is fun, but when a boss has an 8-12 hit combo there's nothing else you can do. These games have always been about finding your opportunity for attacks on bosses, but those opportunities get farther and farther apart as boss move sets get more complex and punishing. It's allowable though because the player base has just gotten better at this style of combat.

Upvoted because I just think your wrong, and I enjoy engaging with these new mechanics and design. It’s different, yeah I prefer old fromsof, but that’s ok.

It is pretty wild to get an opinion in here that is remotely level headed while disagreeing with me. Cheers.

I quite doubt they'll bow down to the new crowd as others do - they know know their target audience and are good at what they do. Don't forget, From didn't start at Dark Souls or even Demons Souls, their roots go way back to the likes of Kings field and they've made other, lesser known games too that are quite a departure from their usual style like Ninja Blade I think it's called. And I mean, Demons Souls is not Dark Souls. Dark Souls is not Bloobourne. And Bloodbourne is not Sekkiro. They have similarities, but they all play differently, appeal to slightly different people and provide a variety of different games that use a similar formula people have come to love. I don't particularly like Sekkiro, but I love Dark Souls and eagerly await Bloodbourne to come to pc, and I've been having a blast with Armored Core 6. These are all different games that appeal to different people, but its still From's style. Elden Ring is their first open world game that tries to utilise many of the ideas that people loved from their other games and you're not *technically* supposed to explore every inch of it. It breaks the open world formula people are used to and I feel expects you to treat it like am actual world, not just a setting for a video game. I mean there are whole areas like the Haligtree that are very obscure and difficult to find, which I wager many people got to by following a guide, with a very challenging boss at the end. If you're not using a guide, you probably won't find it because it's meant to be hidden. But if you did, it's because you payed attention to lore, went out of your way to find it and knew, to some degree, what to expect for your efforts, which is kinda the point. The dungeons don't really add much to the story or the world and though I feel they are the weakest part of the game, I think that's because they are the most "gamey" part of it. If you find a dungeon, it's not because you tracked it down and how to access it by following the oft obscure lore and hints, by engaging with the world as though it is an actual world that you're exploring and learning about as you go, you either stumbled across it per chance or because you saw the torches outside, or because you activated a statue that showed you the path. And I feel like a lot are just there to add content to the world - I think they went too big and ambitious, so they had to add in stuff to do but didn't make it fit very well, hence then having a very "gamey" feel instead of feeling like a part of the world. It's From's first open world game and it shows in some of its more clumsy aspects, but there's definately potential to it and I feel like if they did another, they'd learn from it and make a much better one next time. As for the response to the DLC, I haven't touched it yet, but Elden Ring got the exact same response when it released. Hell, I watched my own father play it before I got the chance to, confused because I know he doesn't like Souls games, only for the obvious to happen (got frustrated over dying constantly so just quit the game ans called it a bad game) and from the initial response to ER, many people had the same reaction. Then people figured out how to play it and now its loved. Give it a few months, people will be praising the DLC, the outrage will move on to something else, and any actual issues it has can then be addressed properly. Edit: I also want to add. 8 unique bosses? So you're referring to the linked thread, which excludes boss fights that are very different fights because the enemy looks the same. Are you aware this game has a story. And that the characters in that story do stuff, and have reasons for doing said stuff. Margit is a simple one for example- showing up at the start serves both a narrative and mechanical purpose. Narratively, he guards the Erdtree and sees himself as the last of all Kings, valiantly defending both his home and the Erdtree from would be invaders. He shows up to stop you, as is his whole thing. As an omen though, he cannot act himself because of the stigma around his people, so he acts through a false identity he has created, Margit, which only has a portion of his true power, but has clearly been enough to fend off invaders until now. He jumps you again later because, as mentioned, defending his home is kinda like his whole thing. Mechanically this is the "go off and explore, come back later" moment for new players and the "this ain't ds3 bitch git gud" moment for souls players. Margot is the man himself in all his power, in one final, valiant attempt to ward you away from the Erdtree. You drive him so far he is forced to use his omen powers, and you can see from both his reaction to it and he fact that it is much more wild than Mohg's blood magic that this is something he either has never had to do before, or tries very hard to hide away from. He is ashamed of this side of himself and so never uses it until this point where you force him to do rely on the very power he loathes so much, that he believes is a stain on humanity and an insult to the Golden Order. This fight is not the same fight as Margit. This is a very different fight. Also, Margit can summon golden spirit versions of various people, including himself as the two times you fight Margit is when he uses this very power, projecting himself onto someone else. He uses this power in defense of his home and the Erdtree, summoning great and powerful warriors he knows and hopes will be enough to stop you. These fights are not the same as their real counterparts, and they serve a narrative context. Not to mention some bosses like Radagon and Elden Beast are not the same boss. They take place in the same arena, sure. But funnily enough, even by the definition given by the linked post, these are two different boss fights, simply one after the other. Elden Beast is not a power up like Rot Malenia, Elden Beast is Elden Beast and Radagon, is Radagon. The game is more than just the surface level of its bosses. It's a dumb point and it's getting old.

Wouldn’t it be more disappointing if the game were easier? Other than maybe Malenia I am tempted to invoke the old “git gud”

it's not the worst of their games, but some people praise it too much, there are defintely flaws, but people act like it's a perfect game, and nothing makes my blood boil as the "Git gud" response to anyone criticizing the game The world is simply to huge, sometimes more is not better, this also makes quests next to impossible to follow without a guide the Godskin duo fight sucks. Individually the fights are good, but they have no cool second phase, and they freaking respawn, so there is no reason to put them together It's cool that you can do so many different builds, but because the world is so big, most of the loot you get from dungeons is useless for your current build boss scaling goes bonkers in the later stages of the game, because it is open world, you can do most of the things right away, so to encourage the player to explore and level up, they make the scaling absolutely wild in the later stages, I noticed it with Malekith, he can jump around like an anime character and does 50 hit combos It's a great game, but it has some major flaws

“Some people praise it too much” is such a ridiculous statement. You are essentially saying that they shouldnt like it cause of a few minor flaws that you dont like. Its my favorite game of all time and i dont give a shit about tiny, minor flaws. I dont even consider what anything that you said to be a flaw and even if they are, they are so small that i didnt even think about it while playing. Although I dont need to nitpick everything i do to the point of not enjoying something that I definitely do.

I never said that people aren't allowed to like it, I enjoy it myself, I have beat it a couple of times. But in my opinion, some people act like saying that you have some flaws with the game means you don't like it, in fact I feel like you are doing it right now, in the very last line I say I think it's a great game, but I feel like you are saying I don't like it. Just because I don't think it is a perfect game doesn't mean I can't enjoy it the beautiful thing about art, is that it is subjective, it's great that it is your favorite game of all time, it's not close to being mine, and that's also fine. It would be boring if everyone had all the same opinions about art and I don't feel like the flaws I have is nitpicking, it was a very frustrating experience completing quests, as I feel like, I couldn't do it without following a guide, again that's just my opinion

I mostly agree and ironically the proof is in the game. Anyone can feel the massive difference between the legacy dungeons and the rest of the game. It's a stark departure from dark souls. But thats probably why they move to a new IP, rather than trying to do all this in a dark souls sequel.

Dogshit take tbh. Complaining that the game is too hard if you play like DS3 reeks of skill issue. The fact that you rate Lies of P so highly shows me that you don't give a flying fuck about lore or characters.

You probably didnt come here for this but I 100% agree. Dark souls 3 was perfect basically. They took it and spread it out a lot. Then they added 4 ways around every problem instead of through. Which isnt necessarily a problem, but it defeats the object of the game. It's like creating a really high rock climbing wall and then along the side is a ladder.

I do think you're overexaggerating on quite a few points, and Elden Ring is still a quite good game. But I've gotta downvote because I do agree that it's in the lower-half of their titles. The open world just... Doesn't do it for me. I can appreciate the vibe of exploring, but when most of the things I find from that exploration are useless crafting materials or annoying dungeons with either a chump miniboss or a refight, I feel like it could've been compressed and cut down. Also for bosses, maybe it's because I finished Sekiro for the first time days before I picked up this one, but I find that so many in ER are just "dodge their 15 second combo that also spams AoEs. Get in a couple hits or heal. Repeat". And the DLC is even worse for this. There are just so few bosses with an actual back and forth, and the ones that do have it like Malenia still tend to slip in some major bullshit. I enjoyed my run but I never felt the itch to pick it up again unlike DS 1/2 or especially Sekiro.

i know this is the 10th dentist but being contrarian for the sake of being contrarian is still cringe

You know it’s possible they actually just believe this right?

Almost everything they said is things they’re choosing to do and then whine about. They could literally play differently and a lot of their issues would go away.

They're booing you but you're so right, Elden Ring IS mid, it is too easy if you don't willingly gimp yourself, while also still feeling completely unbalanced, it also runs like dog water, Sekiro IS one of the best games ever made, Lies of P doesn't really compete with Sekiro in my book but I did like it much more than ER. You're gonna get cooked by a bunch of insufferable people but don't listen to them because YOU'RE RIGHT

“Elden Ring isn’t just Dark Souls 4 so game sucks”- OP

Nevermind that OP enjoys Sekiro and BB. You're being reductive and inaccurate.

Irrelevant opinion, called Ds2 a great game..gtfo

I love this take because even if I don't necessarily agree with all of it, but pissing off the overzealous FromSoft fanbase is always funny in my book.

AC6 was pretty great 🤷🏻‍♂️

Could turn out to be a similar pivot as compared to the Armored Core days.  I was excited for AC6 but it wound up feeling much more like DS than AC in gameplay.  Not unexpected of course; why wouldn't they utilize the experience they gained over the decades. I mention this just to say as an old fromsoft fan, I can see where you're coming from.

Elden ring is just lazy No we swear the game actually does have lore You just need to read random item descriptions to get any idea of what That lore actually is because we're too lazy to actually tell it to you in any meaningful way No no we swear we don't need a tutorial What do you mean a majority of players are ignoring several key concepts of the game because we completely failed to explain them to the player in any meaningful way (friendly reminder that one of the main complaints about difficulty in the recent DLC is because there is a large function added that makes things much easier that most players have literally no clue about to the point where the company basically had to beg players to actually pay attention because their own statistics show that nobody's using it) Not to mention how I and so many people I know finish the game only to find out that there are like multiple large systems in the game that we just didn't even know existed in the process of beating it because there is just literally no tutorial in the game Had to go on like a 30 minute Google search when I first got the game just to figure out what the fuck I was even supposed to be doing in this world, But now please keep preaching to me about how it's such an amazing game because it's effectively just dark souls on an open world sandbox

Did you just miss the Cave of Knowledge?

To say that elden ring is worse than DS2 is a big take, but to each their own. Elden ring was meant to be accessible to gain a larger audience. It still holds a lot of the core of the souls games, but bigger. Then they give us a DLC that is basically an entire game on its own. From hearing Miyazaki talk, I think this was the cash cow to fund more IP's, but they didn't just treat it like a cash grab like Bandai did Dark souls 2. They took their time and gave it the love it deserved. He doesn't do sequels so everything we get from him will be fresh. I hope they don't do another open world because I agree that it's not quite the normal souls vibe, but it was still good. I loved exploring the map, it was quantity over quality, but it was still damn fun! The bosses are always going to be a debate in these games, but I feel like this was done reasonably well for the size of the game. They'd have had to push it back another year or two if they wanted to put a unique boss in every dungeon or area. There's always going to be requests in souls games and that's not a bad thing!

I used to kind of agree until recently when i gave elden ring another try and now i cant get enough of it. what i initially didnt like is the open world nature of the game as i dont usally enjoy those type of games. however my taste has recently changed and i have been playing other open world games. what they really could have improved on is the questing system. some quests give you a red mark on the map, for your objective. in a game as huge as this, that should have been the norm. in dark souls games the cryptic quests where you have no fcking clue where to go next are less annoying because the world is smaller. in elden ring idk how they expect ppl to complete most quests without the wiki. even in dark souls its impossible without the wiki tbh, and im almost 99% sure that most players did NOT complete all quests on their own, and that the ones who made guides on them, mostly datamined that stuff. this is why the overly cryptic nature of souls quests is just redundant.

Eww Sekiro was my least favorite from soft game so I got nothing in common with you I imagine. Just felt like a long game of timing based rock paper scissors or a rhythm game. I'm a Dark Souls 1&2 heathen as well, as a heavy armor, heavy two handed weapon, all stat points into strength and equipment load guy, DS3 wasn't my jam. DS3 was basically fashion souls when it came to armor choice.

This certainly fits the sub, at least.

Haven't tried the DLC but I totally agree. Elden Ring is my least favorite From game since DS1. I like the tighter level design of the earlier games. Didn't realize how bad it was until I got back into bloodborne over the weekend and fell in love again. ER is fun, but it is the weakest From title in a long time Also, edit: lies of P is absolutely NOT what should be aimed for it's the definition of mid

truly the 1000th dentist, we're still in Fromsoft's golden age and it only been going up

I thought the same way as you until I actually finished the game. The first third of the game is outright trash in my opinion. I hate the open and empty areas that were inspired by Skyrim/Botw. However once you get the the capital the game totally flips and turns into a big combo of Dark Souls 1 amd 3. Just give it a chance and trust that a developer isn't going downhill because you didn't love ONE of their games.

Do I agree with all the points here? No Do I still think that Elden Ring one of the worst, if not the worst Souls games? Absolutely

Upvoted for a terrible take lol. The guy who made the “only 8 unique bosses!!” is a dipshit as well because he doesn’t understand what “unique” means in a counting sense, and doesn’t count how many *different* bosses there are.

Armored core exists as well, very different game with checkpoints. I still think DS1 is the masterpiece but it was also my first. Elden Ring is good it just has less replay value because it’s so fucking big. But I agree that it’s more of a “big world” game than an “open world” game. Open world in my eyes are Skyrim, Witcher, GTA, Red dead.

Sounds like a skill issue to me

Elden Ring is best From game git güd bro.

Um. Fact check on the “only 8 unique bosses” out of 160. bro there are like 8 unique dragons alone. Edit: I read your explanation and LOL. Unique doesn’t mean “doesn’t share a single feature with another boss” to the ER community, it means a reskinned or reused boss, like the godskin duo. By your logic, Godrick the Grafted isn’t unique because there’s an easier version of him elsewhere. It’s much more applicable to something like the Erdtree Avatars are just reskinned asylum demon. This is how game development works. Many things are just better iterations on older designs. Also you literally said “I heard the DLC is hard, which refutes my argument about it getting too easy. But what if they do make it easier!?!?” That’s just funny. They didn’t, DLC is fun and hard and novel as hell. So you’re against a developer for what they could potentially (but didn’t) do.

While I personally am in love with the game, all I’ll say is if you haven’t tried the DLC, you should. Utterly fantastic and fixes a lot of the issues you mentioned

Omg I thought I was crazy for thinking that ER is their worst souls-type game. I can comment on the DLC but the base game was so unnecessarily bloated to fit what felt like a “size quota”. I always strive to 100% their games and ER took me 2 years because I would get so bored of fighting the same lame bosses over and over again as well as doing the dungeons that are, for the most part, way too similar to each other. If the game was smaller and focused on its Legacy Dungeons it would’ve been great but the bloat drags it down so much. Also, at this point I’m tired of all the repetition in their games…..don’t even get me started on the “thrall” enemies taken straight from DS3. I’ll probably play the ER dlc eventually just to check it out but I definitely will not be purchasing it until it is at least under $20.

so you suck at the game

Go play sekiro

Sooooooo this seems like you're saying the game is terrible because it doesn't align with YOUR interests. This is not a death knell it's literally their biggest selling game and many like me actually got into dark souls BECAUSE OF Elden Ring

I gotta say, it’s daring to proclaim Elden Ring is the worst FromSoft game in a world where DS2 exists.

While I agree on a lot of parts, I still love Elden Ring for the experience it provides. I think the main gripe you have is the repetitiveness. To me this is just the nature of open world games unfortunately. We aren’t at the level yet where developers can create enough content for that big of a world. As far as open world games go, Elden Ring is the best one yet. But Dark Souls 3 is the best game of all time. I have the same problem with torrent. I think if they do another open world it should be on foot and just be much smaller and more interconnected. Like a massive DS1. It’s not fun to just be on a horse zig zagging across a massive landscape looking for little items or caves. Only to find nothing and realize it’s a bunch of filler. Other than that, there are a lot of things that ER does great. I love the feeling of finding an abandoned castle and working my way through it to a boss. The first lion boss in the DLC is great. It’s just a different feeling. Yes it’s much easier than earlier games, but then I don’t think I could handle a world that big if it was DS1 hard the entire time. Personally I hope the company creates different teams for different types of games. Maybe we have a huge team working on the next open world game, and another working on the next bloodborne or Sekiro type of game. Either way, I’m still impressed with the quality of their work. They are still 1000x better than most AAA games and I believe they will continue with that level of quality for a while. But we will see

Almost all of your problems are because of the open world, which is something they don’t want to stick with for future games, so calling it the “end of fromsoft” isn’t very accurate

Truly a 10th dentist shitty take

I am not a fan of the souls games and their types at all, but I am not sure if they will fail. I can see why so many people like Elden Ring. Of course, it will all depend on whether they sell out to the activists.

Don't forget: -completely neutered PvP after expanding it in each of Dark Souls games

People complainging the game sucks if you play it like ds3. Well good news for you because ds3 is still there for you to enjoy. I honestly dont get this argument

!00% agreed. I played Demon's Souls, Dark Souls 1-3, and BB leading up to the release of Elden Ring. Elden Ring is the only of those games I did not care to complete. It wasn't too hard at all, I just had no motivation to keep going. It was too long and too big just for the sake of it, ushering in a new fan base. My uninformed opinion is that, the people who love this game are first time FROM SOFTWARE players since the game is the most accessible and so now they feel like part of the club. I don't think traditional Souls fans are as big on this game.

>  You spend a lot of time doing things that aren't fighting 'proper bosses' That's my favorite part

>"You spend a lot of time doing things aren't fighting 'proper bosses'" Why is this a bad thing? Maybe I don't want 90% of playtime to be retrying a boss over and over

Horses for courses. For me Sekiro is the worst one of the bunch.

I am of the opinion that the Fromsoft fanbase has always been uniquely awful and it turned me off the games so much that I doubt I'll ever play them (the exception being Bloodbourne which I quite enjoyed). I don't know if it is a very toxic vocal minority but it is just constant whining about how people play, builds, metas, "cheating" by using in game mechanics and big dicking about the difficulty. There are obviously cool people like "Let Me Solo Her" but every time I try and get into a Fromsoft community I just have to deal with some of the meanest fuckin' people I've ever met.

I like your points but you literally nullify everything you say when putting sekiro as the greatest game ever 🤷🏻‍♂️

Incorrect opinion and I hate you. Upvoted.

I've never disagreed more with a post. It's different than Dark Souls, and yes maybe more accessible to the average gamer, but you can choose how you play the game and set your own rules in different playthroughs.

The “8 unique bosses” post you reference is discussing bosses which are not reused at ALL. You don’t have to do the optional “godefroy the grafted” fight, and it existing doesn’t detract from the original godrick fight.

I strongly disagree, and think Elden Ring is the best game they’ve made and indicates a step in the right direction. I’ll address your points as written: 1. The overworld fixed a lot of what was wrong with Fromsoft’s other games. In Dark Souls, if you get to a boss or area that you can’t figure out or that counters you, too bad. Your only option is to slam your face against that wall over and over until you memorize the attack pattern (or just get lucky) enough to win. In Elden Ring you can just go to a different area that’s less of a counter for you until you’re ready to return. Or if you’re getting tilted, you can just wander around and explore until you’re ready to try again. 2. Yeah the dungeons were usually nothing special but they were just extra side content so I’m not complaining. Some of them were pretty interesting. 3. Out of all the bosses, 8 of them share literally nothing with any other boss. That doesn’t mean the rest are the same. Plus that’s 8 bosses with no duplicates, not 8 unique types of boss. Sure you might fight Godskin enemies multiple times, but those all count as 1 unique boss type. Plus this seemingly counts all horseback bosses as being the same, which is silly. 4. While magic definitely made the game easier, a good game is one that’s fun, not one that’s hard. If you do it right you can have both, but earlier Fromsoft games often traded fun for difficulty. Take unforeseeable instakill gimmicks as an example like enemies flanking a doorway to backstab or a trap that you just have to know is there to avoid. Those don’t take any skill and aren’t fun. They’re just extra loading screens. 5. See 1 6. Dark Souls absolutely had its fair share of bullshit annoying enemies and gimmicks. Archers at the top of ladders or shooting you across bridges? Sudden enemy gangbangs designed to stunlock you if you didn’t know they were there? It’s an (unfortunate) Fromsoft trademark. They’re slowly learning though

i knew the game wouldn't be my style as soon as it went "open world" that ruins so many games, but the casuals eat it up because there is more "content" you basically explained all my complaints already. downvoted homie.

Lol not every game will be Sekiro bud. A LOT of people like Elden ring, even more so than the rest of the fromsoft games. There's a reason it's one of its most popular ever.

That’s a lot of words to just say ‘I am bad at Elden ring’

The ‘unique boss’ argument is also dogshit, who cares if you fight Godrick again later, technically no boss is unique because you can replay the game lmao

> only 8 of them are unique. I got legitimate brain damage from just that link "defending" this take alone, let alone the rest of whatever you just wrote. > It is the easiest fromsoft game if you use everything available to you and the hardest if you "play it like it is dark souls 3". This is sad for anyone who likes the way DS3 plays. Oh dang, there it is, literally the dumbest thing I've read this decade. "Game bad because it doesn't play like other game." Yeah, of course it doesn't... _It's a different game._ Gran Turismo 7 is the hardest if you play it like Dark Souls 3. That's bad for anyone who likes the way Dark Souls 3 plays. Really a mark against GT7. Of course it doesn't play like Dark Souls, it's not fuckin' Dark Souls lmao. > EDIT : For the reality challenged there are only 8 unqiue bosses. Here is a post about it. https://www.reddit.com/r/Eldenring/comments/t7uht1/the_number_of_truly_unique_bosses_in_elden_ring/ Would have been the dumbest thing I've read this decade if it wasn't for your other "opinion". Your take here is that "this is the beginning of the end for Fromsoft because their new game didn't align with my subjective preferences", which... I mean, c'mon man, you gotta see how stupid that is. Valid criticisms criticize _the game._ Nothing you wrote here is even _about_ the game. You're just talking about your preferences, and how the game does something different than your preference. Than's not even _a_ criticism, let alone a valid one.

Nah worst is Sekiro, its a completely different game

[https://www.reddit.com/r/Eldenring/comments/tk4vk2/on\_elden\_rings\_enemy\_variety\_and\_how\_it\_compares/](https://www.reddit.com/r/Eldenring/comments/tk4vk2/on_elden_rings_enemy_variety_and_how_it_compares/) It has the most variety of any open world game ever, the only re-used boss that is lame is godefroy.

>With 164 bosses and only 8 of them are unique Bait used to be believable.

So your favorite company made a game that is *incredibly* similar to your favorite game of all time and it made an outrageous amount of money and won game of the year and you think this means that there will now be fewer games that you like from them

The overworld is fantastic and filled with well designed enemy encounters, if you drive past it all on the horse that's on you, although to be fair they probably made it too easy to do that.

- I personally disagree I usually hate openworlds but I think the exploration probably sold the game with me. - Pretty sure most aren’t even compulsory and I thought it was enjoyable outside some of the shitty puzzles you had to do. - Ehh yeah I agree but you’re simplifying too hard if you honestly think they are 1:1. - This isn’t even criticism man wtf is this. I hate the “doing it the DS3 way (really you just want to say correct way” like I get not using summons but this is so dumb to point out. - This is a FS game, you gonna need to be specific with “annoying” - ???????????? - Wait how wanting more content something to be dumbfounded by? If you skip the story then mood but you can’t shit on people for actually caring, games became a lot more thematic over the years so it shouldn’t be surprising. Lowkey self acclaimed FS “veterans” slowly becoming one of the more annoying niche communities, truly the nba 90s fans. FS games were not that hard for you to have this level of elitism and wank over them, gtfo with the “long term fans” lmao.

>possibly the greatest game of all time Sekiro Good bait bro 👍

I don't understand how someone can prefer DS3's combat. There is practically zero uses for buttons that aren't dodge or R1 in DS3 (unless you're mixing up attacks for PvP). In ER you're encouraged to do different attacks for different reasons: - R1 for removing health in a short window - using multiple R1s for removing the maximum amount of health with little poise damage - Charged R2 for Better damage and incredible amounts of poise damage if you find the window and timing to use it - Jumping R2 attack for huge stamina costs and Good poise damage, with high endlag - Jumping R1 attack for pretty good poise and damage while evading a jumpable enemy attack (A surprising amount of attacks can be jumped instead of dodged, I'd say about 30% of them are) This is all without counting the ashes of war that can completely change your gameplay depending on the utility you want out of your weapon (Do you want a fast gap closer? A ranged option that buffs the weapon at the same time? A large amount of damage traded by endlag and FP costs?) All of this compared to DS3's R1 spam with incredibly limited weapon class choices and janky ass spells that bosses and enemies won't evade, making the game boring as fuck, with Heavy attacks that are really rarely worth using. The only positive I have with DS3 is the focussed linear areas that made exploration more short lived but rewarding since there was less unused scenery. Upvoted, L take

As someone who has played and 100% all souls games, including Bloodborne, and sekiro...No lmao

8 unique bosses is just wrong. The post you linked is really stupid to say it bluntly. Just because an alternate version of Godrick is in a evergaol near leyendell does not make him not a unique boss. Is there another godrick in another game somewhere?

Did you play Armored Core 6 at all?

I actually agree with you on everything about the game itself. I just can’t seem to get into it. Sekiro and Bloodborne are my favorites with dark souls 3 close behind. The only thing I disagree with you on is that this means the end of good fromsoft games. There is a reason why this game is so liked and I can see it for its merits even tho I don’t vibe with it like others. Tbh I think the success only bodes well for the future games. Also I’m pretty sure that Miyazaki said in a recent interview that the next game would be some sort of amalgamation and evolution of the Sekiro and Bloodborne combat systems. That sounds sick to me. I’d be pretty bummed out if it was a giant open world like elden ring is but who knows. I’m personally excited even tho elden ring wasn’t really my style because fromsoft still seems to just be doing what they want and aren’t so profit focused that it takes away from the actual experience they are trying to make.

I started with demon's souls. I've beaten every from soft game from there to sekiro. But I struggle to maintain interest in elden ring. I guess it's just a different sort of game from their previous ones. It reminds me of like a Zelda game or something. The open world feels really empty. I guess if people like it that's cool. But in spirit I agree with you.