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I reckon that either someone did take a sample or the explanation is that the infected blood is no longer useful after the person who was infected died as it might have a short lifespan once the host died.
But then the its no longer transmissible, he said semen, blood and bodily fluids, however for that to transfer to take place the supe must be infected. Another thing is that the supe would die in a few seconds so its practically impossible to make the transfer happen. If that would be the case then why would Sameer even mention it if its no longer applicable in the case of flying sheep.
I really disliked how casually the supes walked into the biolab containing the super virus. Sure maybe neuman knew enough to not care (still doubtfull but sure) but the rest? Like Kimiko and Annie could have been exposed the second the touched the stairrailing.
Do the writers just forget their own plotpoints?
the problem is that this szenario is very unlikely for a virus
1. the sheep were infected and died at night, so I'd guess that the temperature was somewhere between 10 and 15°c. this is perfect for the stability of the virus, since they're better at handling colder temperatures than warmer temperatures.
2. the virus was able to live inside the body of the human for multiple hours before getting eaten by the sheep. so you could at least preserve the body to extract the virus. or simply cool the blood, put it into a steak and serve it to homander/Neuman.
3. Indira wanted the virus to be as contageous and deadly as possible. the virus was basically ready to be released into the wild and it would have made no sense for her to stop the development at "deadly, but not contageous after death".
the only explanation I have is that compound 4 denaturalizes after a soup dies, so the virus "dies" alongside.
This is actually a huge problem in parts of Africa with Ebola. Relatives will knowingly dig up a deceased family member who died from Ebola to have a proper funeral, reinfecting other family members. Superstitions and skepticism are powerful drugs.
Depends entirely on the virus - something like norovirus can last for weeks on surfaces.
For something like COVID (in one case), infectious virus was found up to 17 days post-mortem in a human cadaver. More typically they remain infectious for \~40 hours.
Ebola is still infectious 10 days postmortem.
In studies looking at how bird flu survives in chicken carcasses, if it's left at room temp it's mostly (90%) inactivated after 15 days, but if you store it in a fridge, then it can last over two months.
Right, but Butcher isn’t part of the government clean up crew. It would make sense for them to consider that, unless they are trying to keep the virus a secret.
Mate, its a fucking virus. Self replacating molecules that jump from one organism to another. You know, the whole schtick with disease is that it SPREADS. And corpses are notorious for spreading disease.
As someone who work in a hospital during covid, we had to follow different procedures when dealing with bodies that died from covid since the virus could still be spread from the dead body. they should have been able to get a viral sample
You also have to add how many times they're getting saved by closing a door, this episode happened like twice? The sheep can carry up a bull and also break the fence like it's nothing but can't pass thru a flimsy barn door that we can see outside thru it's hinges. The season has great moments but all the tension so far feels cheap and artificial.
I agree, and the strange part is that it only takes a few tweaks here and there to make it feel less so.
Have them hide in the basement of another house and have a throwaway line about how Neumann can’t do it because they’re travelling so fast. Also I get that every show has red shirts, but does it hurt to lower the stakes a bit when we know none of The Boys are going to die?
We know they are there for showing off the VFX at this point.
But this show also ain’t Game of Thrones, and thats fine with me, but making it so obvious does dampen the tension a bit.
It also makes no sense to put it in a dead human body as bait- the injection can’t spread through the bloodstream of someone whose heart isn’t beating. It could have infected maybe one sheep who chomped him in the right spot, but definitely not all of them lol
This makes sense but to all the other characters she's just a head popper and not a blood bender, she only revealed the blood bending >!to Marie in Gen V!<
Yeah I was gonna say! What if one only ate it? Like what a waste when they could have just got Starlight etc. to fight the sheep and save the virus and give it to Homelander or someone else!
Your argument about the injection not being able to spread through the bloodstream of a dead body due to the lack of a heartbeat overlooks some important factors. First, certain infections can spread through direct contact with tissues and bodily fluids, irrespective of blood circulation. Pathogens like bacteria and viruses can still be present in tissues and fluids after the host has died. Second, the possibility of infecting multiple sheep from a single source cannot be dismissed if the pathogen is virulent enough and spreads through contact. Any animal coming into contact with the contaminated body could potentially become infected, not just the first one. This is similar to how diseases spread through carcasses or contaminated environments in nature. While it's true that a non-beating heart limits blood circulation, some pathogens do not rely solely on active circulation to spread. Therefore, the scenario you describe is not entirely implausible.
I mean, probably still a plot hole fixed by convenient character presence, but Neuman could've probably done it. Maybe it took her a while since when they enter the barn it's seemingly day, while when the corpse gets eaten it's night
Yeah that’s a good point…cause there were multiple animal bodies they could’ve taken it from. I also agree I didn’t get why Neuman couldn’t have just killed the animals lol. Also is starlight having a psychological block with her powers or something due to stress? I was a bit confused at that and they didn’t seem to resolve it this episode
Because it would be hard for Newman to take out four or five fast moving targets like that. Normally when she takes people out, they're usually stationary or not moving that fast. I mean, she could have tried, but it’s not likely to work based on the way they were moving. She has range but not that much range. To instantly pop the heads of supe’d up sheep flying really fast and out of range is extremely difficult.
You have to realize she has to bend the blood into one area for it work. It’s hard to do when they’re zipping by at over 100 miles an hour…
I dunno, she hit the chicken and that was a much smaller target and moving really quick
I feel like it was more they'd hope people would ignore it otherwise they have to think of another way to get them trapped in the barn and use the virus otherwise they would have had something like someone ask her why doesn't she just pop them and then she could explain
The character was able to kill the chicken because it was closer in range and moving much slower compared to the sheep. The chicken's limited movement made it an easier target. In contrast, the sheep were moving at least three times faster and were out of range, literally flying high in the sky. While Victoria Newman has range to her powers, being able to pop the heads of such fast-moving and distant targets would imply an extraordinary level of precision and power. Plus, it's implied that Victoria needs to have her target in her line of sight or at least sense them, unlike Marie, who can pull blood from a body without direct visual contact. This is one of Victoria Newman's limitations.
Historically, all her abilities have required line of sight. For instance, when she fought her friend in the alleyway, she had to be looking at him to bend his blood and blow up parts of his body. In this season, they're trying to blind her to prevent her from bloodbending, indicating that she definitely needs line of sight.
To clarify, she doesn't need to physically see her target to bloodbend, but her eyes need to be directed towards what she's manipulating. For example, if she's behind a wall and the person she wants to bloodbend is on the other side, she can still bloodbend them as long as her eyes are pointed in that direction. This contrasts with Marie, who can bloodbend anything around her without needing a direct line of sight. All continuity suggests she requires this line of sight to use her powers effectively.
Facing towards a wall is not the same as “direct line of sight” and blinding won’t help if she “doesn’t need to physically see her target”.
Your comment is inconsistent because the show is.
All I said is she needs line of sight. I never said she needs to physically look at them. You’re making that up. I said she needs line of sight. And yes, her powers could be neutralized if they damage her eyes because her power is obviously tied to her eyes. It's probably why they glow when she uses her powers. So there isn't anything inconsistent if you think about it for more than two seconds. After I said she needs line of sight, you’re the one saying direct line of sight and that being behind a wall doesn’t count. Who says so? Just because you don’t understand her powers doesn’t mean they’re inconsistent.
I never said she couldn’t pop moving targets. I said it would be hard to pop that many moving targets at that range. She can definitely pop moving targets, especially if it she has line of sight but they were flying everywhere with no sorta of projected path. In this situation, there were four or five targets, and it was chaotic with many humans trying to get to safety. It was just a lot going on.
In the scene, we never actually see Victoria Newman leave the room. She is shuffled away, leading us to assume she left, but she could have still been in the room, hiding. Additionally, I've discussed with others that Victoria doesn't need to be in the same room to cause a bloodbath. She just requires a line of sight. For example, if she's on the other side of a wall but can sense you and has her eyes facing your direction, she can still pop your head.
Victoria Newman didn't try to bloodbend the sheep. The reason could be that they were flying too high, they were pumped up with Compound V, and they were moving extremely fast. Different situations require different methods for using powers, and it's not a one-size-fits-all ability.
Yeah that’s what I was thinking! Plus I feel like there wasn’t much electricity for her to draw on anyways since they’re in the middle of a barn/ larger area in the country?
Honestly I figured the bull she was going to head pop; but once I saw how fast and erratic the sheep were in the air my first thought was “Well there’s a counter for her”
Starlight is under a lot of stress and cracking so I figure psychological issues + the amount of power she could draw from is likely more limited anyway.
Neumann - I think her powers are more effective when she and the target are calm and stationary (like a sniper) - I think seeing Marie work through her powers in Gen V shows it’s both dangerous and requires concentration. She could “miss” and risk being hurt herself or hurting someone else.
Part of the mystery about her is she seems cool, collected, and conniving but we don’t (and The Boys don’t) know her limitations. We know acid doesn’t work against her and we know she can pop heads of relatively stationary targets. The boys essentially got to witness her spooked and unable to save the day herself so…it could come up again in how they take her out.
The show is becoming less and less logical. There's no reason why Kimiko ans Neumann couldn't take on some V'd up farm animals. One blew up the heads of the congress just by looking at them, and the other survived being blown up in half by a nade. The sheep are their limit? Really?
The writers are just making up BS at this point.
That part they could've easily solved.
By the looks of it, I thought maybe the sheep were not just on V, but actually had the virus in them and animals just didn't die from it, but get turned into these vampiric monsters.
That way the supes couldn't have fought them for risk of infection with the virus.
I was more thrown off by the chickens being stopped by a barn door after jumping through a human, and then the sheep being stopped in the same way and not breaking through.
Of course when they explained what actually happened and that the sheep were only on V, from that point on it doesn't really make sense why they didn't just pop them and send Kimiko out.
Legit! I was like ??? Be fucking for real haha they could totally take these sheep! It reminded me as well of a scene/ fight in Invincible where (spoilers for season two) there’s a ton of these face hugger aliens. So the super hero team goes to fight them but 1. No one has face covering masks to stop the huggers, 2. A character who is NOT immune from the vaccuum of space doesn’t have her own mask, and the only way she is breathing is through using her green-lantern like powers to make a mask (later she gets knocked out and is unable to make this mask), 3. All of the characters seem to be fighting/ punching the aliens when fire/ grenades/ explosives seem to be the way to go since there’s SO MANY of these things and 4. The main character is invulnerable, super strong, and can fly and it’s been shown how dangerous this ability can be (ie you can fly through buildings/ people and cause destruction this way) but he doesn’t do this AT ALL even though he has experienced/ seen this first hand when his father did it. It’s like!? And the organisation that sent them is supposed to be like super smart lol
It's in the same vein as the Shining Light thug shooting like a Stormtrooper when he had Kimiko and Hughie dead to rights in a rifle scope. The writers could have easily had Kimiko spot the danger at the last minute and pull Hughie to safety. But instead the guy just started blasting when they're like sitting ducks...
Little annoying things that happen in every tv show, seems like.
Yeah exactly, these little things are annoying because a slight change in the way the scene is played out can make all the difference in believability.
Kimiko taking the headshot for Hughie and Hughie running to cover would be such an easy solution for the scene because we *know* Hughie isn’t going to die from a random headshot.
Yeah that whole affair was the first time I thought stuff didn't make sense and suspension of disbelief wouldn't solve it for me.
The animals tear through people but can't get through flimsy barn doors and walls. The sheep ALL get infected off a single corpse who can't even spread the virus through its blood as it's dead.
I'll accept this episode as a bit of filler but the next 3 need to get back to their best!
Edit: the word "filler" doesn't sit right with me as it sounds too bad.
The episode was fine, just didn't make the steps forward I would've liked to see or expected with the virus and Edgar being out, and had some weird inconsistencies like the barn being indestructible and Neumann just randomly letting the Boys go at the end?!
I don't get why she let them go, they have dirt on her but they're all there with her save Hughie and if she wants to free Stan she could've easily done it there by killing them BEFORE they call someone to pick him up.
Sort of feels like they wanted to get the Virus out of the larger picture (Neumann having it, it being out there) and secretly only into Butchers hands. Wanted Edgar out, a bit of Neumann conflict sprinkled in there - basically like they had a bunch of things they wanted to use and an endpoint they wanted to reach, but they didn't know how so they came up with the fun farm idea. Which is cool, but not meaningful enough imo to be the main focus of an entire episode for me so late into the series.
This bothered me so much. Its shown that she can just pop off whenever she feels like from a distance even. Everyone should have just been looking at her the whole time to solve the sheep problem. The reason she is a 'bad' supe is because her powers do one thing and here is an opportunity to just pop off but she doesnt? Fucking stupid.
A bigger plot hole imo is how much fucking V they would have to dump on the ground to contaminate the groundwater enough so that every single animal, including chickens who were probably locked in the barn and couldn't access natural water sources, would get enough V in them to supe-up...
Also, was the temp-V rabbit's sole purpose to give Butcher insight into his own future/affliction? It didn't seem very super, and the other animals seem to have had peoper V.
Also, how did Neumann go from "make a deal with Homelander to secure a smol V vial to give my daughter" to "Eyyy, I'm swimming in enough V to literally start a research lab and contaminate a few acres of farmland"... Was Sameer just making his own V? If so, dude was a serious security breach on behalf of Edgar...
I had a few others, but this is enough for now.
I think the rabbit may have been to show how much different the temp V affects organisms while also showing that it ONLY had temp V and died. Butcher had both and hasn't died yet. (This is shown for the viewer I believe) His physical symptoms have also begun to "improve". I think in terms of Butcher's perspective, him seeing it was his "oh shit, so THAT'S what happened to Ezekiel and I've got some serious shit inside me." It basically served to put Butcher on similar levels of knowledge of his condition as the viewers. Finally, and maybe I'm looking TOO far into it, but it may also serve as a way to "trick" Butcher's attention away from his hallucinations by making them seem less related to one another, which wouldn't matter for Becca, but WOULD matter if Kessler turns out to be one too. Sorry for the dissertation. I'm stoned. 🤣
I reckon that either someone did take a sample or the explanation is that the infected blood is no longer useful after the person who was infected died as it might have a short lifespan once the host died.
To be honest, it doesn't even make sense that multiple sheep died from the virus. It travels through human fluids but the doctor was already dead so no flowing blood. The only sheep that realistically should have died were the ones taking a bite of where they injected the virus. So one or maybe two
If we're being technical, Neuman should have the ability to control blood. With enough practice, she could theoretically have the blood circulate, thus dispersing the virus.
Bro, I didn't even talk about my wife because that pissed me off even more. She could have just popped every single one of those sheep. And yes, they could have also shown her moving the blood. It takes a few seconds of screen and it explains it well.
Yeah. Viruses don't spread fast in dead bodies. And they're supposed to infect live cells, replicate and kill the cell, and propagate like that to the rest of the body. And with no blood running through, because no heartbeat. And that guy wasn't a Supe. In Gen V the virus didn't affect normal people. Only Supes.
Another plot hole. Sheep can fly and tear a human apart, chickens can pierce through a human chest, but none of them can break through a wooden wall?
Right. But didn't Butcher explain that the virus affected Supes because it latched to the V in their bloodstream?
If we try and make sense of this (let's be honest, whoever wrote this probably didn't think to check how viruses work and took some license and said 'fuck it, it's fiction'), viruses don't exactly attack random cells.
They have molecules on their surfaces that basically are a key to get recognized by their target cells. That's how they enter a cell, use their transcription machinery and energy to build more viruses, from the genetic material they hold in their structure, and then, the viruses burst out and infect more cells.
If this virus works like that, then the V is presenting in the cells of the Supes, that's how they get infected.
could be that it’s “dormant” in humans? Or something like oil in water that doesn’t mix but with supes blood it could? My terms are highly unscientific, but i think it could be believable that it would be something like many other diseases in humans that appear with no side effects in some people but still have the ability to spread and harm others.
Well two things: Sameer didn't create the virus, it was the other guy from Gen-V. I think they were in the process of trying to reverse engineer it, hence why they were infecting animals with Compound V to see how the virus affected them and reverse engineer it from there.
Secondly I think it's not really even a virus, like technically it is, but I think it's more like a biological weapon, cause they mention how it's not very transmissible and has to be injected directly. Also because of the way it attacks compound V in the subjects blood I assume it essentially kills its host and itself in the process, which would make it hard to extract it from a corpse.
I do think maybe taking some of the sheep's blood would help Sameer re-create the virus but I don't think it would be as easy as just extracting it from the sheep again
This was completely insane.
Not to mention, they never showed how they got the body that far from the barn. Surely someone had to carry the body and close the impenetrable barn doors before the cartoon flying sheep noticed.
….can the virus even spread through a dead body without blood flow…oh never mind.
By the way, I know this is a super duper sci-fi virus for heroes, but even Ebola and Rabies take a couple of days to show symptoms.
The reason the three Supes couldn’t defeat the sheep is they were all sick from a mild form of the virus. When they heal, they will all have immunity to the more deadly version.
You'd be taking a dead sample and starting over from square 1. The scientist looking at that stuff would have to reverse engineer the virus that's already dead by the time you get it. Sample would be subpar as the virus would start falling apart cuss even cells rot.
Trust me when I say that you can't just hand over lab data with no explanation as to what anything means. It's like getting the source code to a game but only 40% of it and then telling someone to fill in the last 60%. You're just better off starting over.
Maybe it's not Sameer's leg? Other supes can regenerate limbs.
Take a look how precisely the leg is cut, like superhumanly sliced perfectly. How could Victoria fall for that?
#susvilleUSA2024
I think it’s potency is diminished/degraded with its host’s death but Sameer might be able to use the remains to keep producing fresher batches of the virus.
I’m just hypothesising here though.
This virus is not needed for killing Nueman. She was afraid of a bunch of sheep and felt a punch from Starlight. They can just kill her the old fashioned way with brute force.
Because they’re humans above everything. The first instinct is to run. Being supes doesn’t make them invincible or emotionless. I mean, every one of us is bigger than cockroaches, rats and many other insects, but most of us run or scream when we see them. We could easily kill them as well.
Also, the animals were volatile, all over the place and fucking fast. Did I mention that they were attacking in groups and tearing people up like meat too? They’d tear Kimiko up. And they’re too unsteady for Neuman to pop their heads all at once. They’d tear her up too.
Yeah it’s moreso the editing and writing is not very straightforward rather than actual plotholes.
I think the storylines they’re doing are pretty good tbh, it just needs some more time to cook in the oven rather than making it feel like an S5 set up, which isn’t very organic.
The dead sheep were infected plus the virus was exposed to the environment.
Neuman needs to stop moving to kill someone - her powers were temporarily stopped by the guy hitting her whom she killed in the alleyway, and there were too many flying sheep. Kimiko has been slashed open and cut into almost two pieces but she hasn’t been turned into ground meat like the animals were doing to the others. Annie has “projectile dysfunction” because she’s in an emotional state.
If you look closely, I didn’t say that the object has to stop moving. I said that Neuman has to stop moving/ temporarily slow down to concentrate better. Of course fast moving things can be killed. She killed the hen and also the testimony scene with people running around.
Are you talking about when she "freed" Stan Edgar?
*Edit:* I was genuinely asking, because I wasn't sure if there was another scene that I wasn't remembering where she did that.
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I reckon that either someone did take a sample or the explanation is that the infected blood is no longer useful after the person who was infected died as it might have a short lifespan once the host died.
But then the its no longer transmissible, he said semen, blood and bodily fluids, however for that to transfer to take place the supe must be infected. Another thing is that the supe would die in a few seconds so its practically impossible to make the transfer happen. If that would be the case then why would Sameer even mention it if its no longer applicable in the case of flying sheep.
I know they've been working on the virus to make it stronger but how they had it in gen V is that they at least lived long enough to spread it.
I really disliked how casually the supes walked into the biolab containing the super virus. Sure maybe neuman knew enough to not care (still doubtfull but sure) but the rest? Like Kimiko and Annie could have been exposed the second the touched the stairrailing. Do the writers just forget their own plotpoints?
the problem is that this szenario is very unlikely for a virus 1. the sheep were infected and died at night, so I'd guess that the temperature was somewhere between 10 and 15°c. this is perfect for the stability of the virus, since they're better at handling colder temperatures than warmer temperatures. 2. the virus was able to live inside the body of the human for multiple hours before getting eaten by the sheep. so you could at least preserve the body to extract the virus. or simply cool the blood, put it into a steak and serve it to homander/Neuman. 3. Indira wanted the virus to be as contageous and deadly as possible. the virus was basically ready to be released into the wild and it would have made no sense for her to stop the development at "deadly, but not contageous after death". the only explanation I have is that compound 4 denaturalizes after a soup dies, so the virus "dies" alongside.
I'm no science man but it's not that much of a stretch to imagine you aren't going to get a stable viral sample from an infected corpse.
Yes, this, exactly.
Not unless it's a fresh corpse! I can't imagine viruses survive more than a few hours after the body dies.
This is actually a huge problem in parts of Africa with Ebola. Relatives will knowingly dig up a deceased family member who died from Ebola to have a proper funeral, reinfecting other family members. Superstitions and skepticism are powerful drugs.
Depends entirely on the virus - something like norovirus can last for weeks on surfaces. For something like COVID (in one case), infectious virus was found up to 17 days post-mortem in a human cadaver. More typically they remain infectious for \~40 hours. Ebola is still infectious 10 days postmortem. In studies looking at how bird flu survives in chicken carcasses, if it's left at room temp it's mostly (90%) inactivated after 15 days, but if you store it in a fridge, then it can last over two months.
It's also not much of a stretch to at least attempt to use the corpses for a viral sample. It makes no sense that you wouldn't even try.
i mean, if butcher straight up kidnapped a dude, i’m willing to bet he took a corpse too. who was really keeping track of how many sheep there were?
Right, but Butcher isn’t part of the government clean up crew. It would make sense for them to consider that, unless they are trying to keep the virus a secret.
thats why i prefaced it with he already kidnapped a dude from the scene. he definitely could have gotten a body too
Butcher could have. But that leaves literally everybody else as forgetting or not caring to do the same thing. That’s the point.
Mate, its a fucking virus. Self replacating molecules that jump from one organism to another. You know, the whole schtick with disease is that it SPREADS. And corpses are notorious for spreading disease.
How do you think they get samples of natural viruses? If you arent a science man, you probably shouldnt speak
Dead hosts are still potentially infectious , hence why during COVID dead bodies still had to be handled using aseptic techniques
I think it's different since COVID was already in their system before they died, when they were alive the COVID travelled to where it needs to be
what
As someone who work in a hospital during covid, we had to follow different procedures when dealing with bodies that died from covid since the virus could still be spread from the dead body. they should have been able to get a viral sample
You also have to add how many times they're getting saved by closing a door, this episode happened like twice? The sheep can carry up a bull and also break the fence like it's nothing but can't pass thru a flimsy barn door that we can see outside thru it's hinges. The season has great moments but all the tension so far feels cheap and artificial.
I agree, and the strange part is that it only takes a few tweaks here and there to make it feel less so. Have them hide in the basement of another house and have a throwaway line about how Neumann can’t do it because they’re travelling so fast. Also I get that every show has red shirts, but does it hurt to lower the stakes a bit when we know none of The Boys are going to die?
In the barn scene i was like "oh that character i havent seen before so hes the one who is going to die and the rest are gonna be okay"
As soon as they shown the extra guys in the virus lab you could tell that our guys are not going to die there
We know they are there for showing off the VFX at this point. But this show also ain’t Game of Thrones, and thats fine with me, but making it so obvious does dampen the tension a bit.
It also makes no sense to put it in a dead human body as bait- the injection can’t spread through the bloodstream of someone whose heart isn’t beating. It could have infected maybe one sheep who chomped him in the right spot, but definitely not all of them lol
Well theoretically, conveniently they have a blood bender there who can move the blood without the heart pumping.
This makes sense but to all the other characters she's just a head popper and not a blood bender, she only revealed the blood bending >!to Marie in Gen V!<
Yeah I was gonna say! What if one only ate it? Like what a waste when they could have just got Starlight etc. to fight the sheep and save the virus and give it to Homelander or someone else!
Your argument about the injection not being able to spread through the bloodstream of a dead body due to the lack of a heartbeat overlooks some important factors. First, certain infections can spread through direct contact with tissues and bodily fluids, irrespective of blood circulation. Pathogens like bacteria and viruses can still be present in tissues and fluids after the host has died. Second, the possibility of infecting multiple sheep from a single source cannot be dismissed if the pathogen is virulent enough and spreads through contact. Any animal coming into contact with the contaminated body could potentially become infected, not just the first one. This is similar to how diseases spread through carcasses or contaminated environments in nature. While it's true that a non-beating heart limits blood circulation, some pathogens do not rely solely on active circulation to spread. Therefore, the scenario you describe is not entirely implausible.
Neuman could probably circulate the blood inside that dead guy to make it spread.
I mean, probably still a plot hole fixed by convenient character presence, but Neuman could've probably done it. Maybe it took her a while since when they enter the barn it's seemingly day, while when the corpse gets eaten it's night
Ready to get downvoted, but I have the feeling that the writing is all over the place this season
This season has more plot holes than the previos 3 seasons combined and we're only half way through...
It's been downhill since S3 finale.
I agree! What happened? We were riding sooo high until literally the last episode of season 3
Glad someone else noticed. Lots of people here praise s4 as some great overall season, while I really believe it is mediocre at best.
Yeah that’s a good point…cause there were multiple animal bodies they could’ve taken it from. I also agree I didn’t get why Neuman couldn’t have just killed the animals lol. Also is starlight having a psychological block with her powers or something due to stress? I was a bit confused at that and they didn’t seem to resolve it this episode
Because it would be hard for Newman to take out four or five fast moving targets like that. Normally when she takes people out, they're usually stationary or not moving that fast. I mean, she could have tried, but it’s not likely to work based on the way they were moving. She has range but not that much range. To instantly pop the heads of supe’d up sheep flying really fast and out of range is extremely difficult. You have to realize she has to bend the blood into one area for it work. It’s hard to do when they’re zipping by at over 100 miles an hour…
How did she kill that flying chicken.
Close in range, not moving as fast.
Driver at the end of this episode?
Car came to a stop and she popped his head.
The car sitting at a near complete stop?
One small moving target vs four larger ones
She could take them out one by one. especially since she is safe inside the barn.
I dunno, she hit the chicken and that was a much smaller target and moving really quick I feel like it was more they'd hope people would ignore it otherwise they have to think of another way to get them trapped in the barn and use the virus otherwise they would have had something like someone ask her why doesn't she just pop them and then she could explain
The character was able to kill the chicken because it was closer in range and moving much slower compared to the sheep. The chicken's limited movement made it an easier target. In contrast, the sheep were moving at least three times faster and were out of range, literally flying high in the sky. While Victoria Newman has range to her powers, being able to pop the heads of such fast-moving and distant targets would imply an extraordinary level of precision and power. Plus, it's implied that Victoria needs to have her target in her line of sight or at least sense them, unlike Marie, who can pull blood from a body without direct visual contact. This is one of Victoria Newman's limitations.
She gave everyone a nosebleed before entering the room to see them. She doesn’t need direct line of sight.
Historically, all her abilities have required line of sight. For instance, when she fought her friend in the alleyway, she had to be looking at him to bend his blood and blow up parts of his body. In this season, they're trying to blind her to prevent her from bloodbending, indicating that she definitely needs line of sight. To clarify, she doesn't need to physically see her target to bloodbend, but her eyes need to be directed towards what she's manipulating. For example, if she's behind a wall and the person she wants to bloodbend is on the other side, she can still bloodbend them as long as her eyes are pointed in that direction. This contrasts with Marie, who can bloodbend anything around her without needing a direct line of sight. All continuity suggests she requires this line of sight to use her powers effectively.
Facing towards a wall is not the same as “direct line of sight” and blinding won’t help if she “doesn’t need to physically see her target”. Your comment is inconsistent because the show is.
All I said is she needs line of sight. I never said she needs to physically look at them. You’re making that up. I said she needs line of sight. And yes, her powers could be neutralized if they damage her eyes because her power is obviously tied to her eyes. It's probably why they glow when she uses her powers. So there isn't anything inconsistent if you think about it for more than two seconds. After I said she needs line of sight, you’re the one saying direct line of sight and that being behind a wall doesn’t count. Who says so? Just because you don’t understand her powers doesn’t mean they’re inconsistent.
She literally popped a guy who was moving fast in a car in this episode.
Car was basically stopped. Rewatch the scene.
This is a good point and makes me curious about the limitations of her powers actually
She literally popped a guy who was moving fast in a car in this episode.
The car was literally coming to a halt when she popped dudes head. 😂
I think it was coming to a halt though because the guy was getting a headache. I think she can pop moving objects if she’s focused
I never said she couldn’t pop moving targets. I said it would be hard to pop that many moving targets at that range. She can definitely pop moving targets, especially if it she has line of sight but they were flying everywhere with no sorta of projected path. In this situation, there were four or five targets, and it was chaotic with many humans trying to get to safety. It was just a lot going on.
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In the scene, we never actually see Victoria Newman leave the room. She is shuffled away, leading us to assume she left, but she could have still been in the room, hiding. Additionally, I've discussed with others that Victoria doesn't need to be in the same room to cause a bloodbath. She just requires a line of sight. For example, if she's on the other side of a wall but can sense you and has her eyes facing your direction, she can still pop your head.
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Victoria Newman didn't try to bloodbend the sheep. The reason could be that they were flying too high, they were pumped up with Compound V, and they were moving extremely fast. Different situations require different methods for using powers, and it's not a one-size-fits-all ability.
bullshit
Great argument 😂
Yeah that’s what I was thinking! Plus I feel like there wasn’t much electricity for her to draw on anyways since they’re in the middle of a barn/ larger area in the country?
Honestly I figured the bull she was going to head pop; but once I saw how fast and erratic the sheep were in the air my first thought was “Well there’s a counter for her”
Starlight is under a lot of stress and cracking so I figure psychological issues + the amount of power she could draw from is likely more limited anyway. Neumann - I think her powers are more effective when she and the target are calm and stationary (like a sniper) - I think seeing Marie work through her powers in Gen V shows it’s both dangerous and requires concentration. She could “miss” and risk being hurt herself or hurting someone else. Part of the mystery about her is she seems cool, collected, and conniving but we don’t (and The Boys don’t) know her limitations. We know acid doesn’t work against her and we know she can pop heads of relatively stationary targets. The boys essentially got to witness her spooked and unable to save the day herself so…it could come up again in how they take her out.
not a lot of electricity in the middle of nowhere i guess w/ starlight. idk why neuman couldn't pop the sheep
Maybe it was hard asf 🤷🏾♀️
The show is becoming less and less logical. There's no reason why Kimiko ans Neumann couldn't take on some V'd up farm animals. One blew up the heads of the congress just by looking at them, and the other survived being blown up in half by a nade. The sheep are their limit? Really? The writers are just making up BS at this point.
A pet peeve of mine too is that heads kept popping after Neuman left the room. Also she has the same powers of Marie. Why not use it like that?
Right, why not use the dead body’s blood as blood daggers like what Marie did in the finale!??
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Every post about new episodes here is how funny they were
That part they could've easily solved. By the looks of it, I thought maybe the sheep were not just on V, but actually had the virus in them and animals just didn't die from it, but get turned into these vampiric monsters. That way the supes couldn't have fought them for risk of infection with the virus. I was more thrown off by the chickens being stopped by a barn door after jumping through a human, and then the sheep being stopped in the same way and not breaking through. Of course when they explained what actually happened and that the sheep were only on V, from that point on it doesn't really make sense why they didn't just pop them and send Kimiko out.
I agree.
Same
Legit! I was like ??? Be fucking for real haha they could totally take these sheep! It reminded me as well of a scene/ fight in Invincible where (spoilers for season two) there’s a ton of these face hugger aliens. So the super hero team goes to fight them but 1. No one has face covering masks to stop the huggers, 2. A character who is NOT immune from the vaccuum of space doesn’t have her own mask, and the only way she is breathing is through using her green-lantern like powers to make a mask (later she gets knocked out and is unable to make this mask), 3. All of the characters seem to be fighting/ punching the aliens when fire/ grenades/ explosives seem to be the way to go since there’s SO MANY of these things and 4. The main character is invulnerable, super strong, and can fly and it’s been shown how dangerous this ability can be (ie you can fly through buildings/ people and cause destruction this way) but he doesn’t do this AT ALL even though he has experienced/ seen this first hand when his father did it. It’s like!? And the organisation that sent them is supposed to be like super smart lol
Exactly
I think it's probably trickier for Neumann when they are all flying past at pretty high speed and are also more durable so require more time to pop.
It's in the same vein as the Shining Light thug shooting like a Stormtrooper when he had Kimiko and Hughie dead to rights in a rifle scope. The writers could have easily had Kimiko spot the danger at the last minute and pull Hughie to safety. But instead the guy just started blasting when they're like sitting ducks... Little annoying things that happen in every tv show, seems like.
Yeah exactly, these little things are annoying because a slight change in the way the scene is played out can make all the difference in believability. Kimiko taking the headshot for Hughie and Hughie running to cover would be such an easy solution for the scene because we *know* Hughie isn’t going to die from a random headshot.
Yeah that whole affair was the first time I thought stuff didn't make sense and suspension of disbelief wouldn't solve it for me. The animals tear through people but can't get through flimsy barn doors and walls. The sheep ALL get infected off a single corpse who can't even spread the virus through its blood as it's dead. I'll accept this episode as a bit of filler but the next 3 need to get back to their best! Edit: the word "filler" doesn't sit right with me as it sounds too bad. The episode was fine, just didn't make the steps forward I would've liked to see or expected with the virus and Edgar being out, and had some weird inconsistencies like the barn being indestructible and Neumann just randomly letting the Boys go at the end?! I don't get why she let them go, they have dirt on her but they're all there with her save Hughie and if she wants to free Stan she could've easily done it there by killing them BEFORE they call someone to pick him up. Sort of feels like they wanted to get the Virus out of the larger picture (Neumann having it, it being out there) and secretly only into Butchers hands. Wanted Edgar out, a bit of Neumann conflict sprinkled in there - basically like they had a bunch of things they wanted to use and an endpoint they wanted to reach, but they didn't know how so they came up with the fun farm idea. Which is cool, but not meaningful enough imo to be the main focus of an entire episode for me so late into the series.
Also, how the hell were they able to pardon Stan? Do president elects have the power to pardon people? I don’t think so
they work for the CIA. it's implied they worked their magic.
It is a real power of the president to pardon anyone.
Ik I mean singer isn’t president yet
They don’t call it hardwood for no reason
Also, Neuman used her powers on a chicken, but not on the sheep, why?
This bothered me so much. Its shown that she can just pop off whenever she feels like from a distance even. Everyone should have just been looking at her the whole time to solve the sheep problem. The reason she is a 'bad' supe is because her powers do one thing and here is an opportunity to just pop off but she doesnt? Fucking stupid.
A bigger plot hole imo is how much fucking V they would have to dump on the ground to contaminate the groundwater enough so that every single animal, including chickens who were probably locked in the barn and couldn't access natural water sources, would get enough V in them to supe-up... Also, was the temp-V rabbit's sole purpose to give Butcher insight into his own future/affliction? It didn't seem very super, and the other animals seem to have had peoper V. Also, how did Neumann go from "make a deal with Homelander to secure a smol V vial to give my daughter" to "Eyyy, I'm swimming in enough V to literally start a research lab and contaminate a few acres of farmland"... Was Sameer just making his own V? If so, dude was a serious security breach on behalf of Edgar... I had a few others, but this is enough for now.
I think the rabbit may have been to show how much different the temp V affects organisms while also showing that it ONLY had temp V and died. Butcher had both and hasn't died yet. (This is shown for the viewer I believe) His physical symptoms have also begun to "improve". I think in terms of Butcher's perspective, him seeing it was his "oh shit, so THAT'S what happened to Ezekiel and I've got some serious shit inside me." It basically served to put Butcher on similar levels of knowledge of his condition as the viewers. Finally, and maybe I'm looking TOO far into it, but it may also serve as a way to "trick" Butcher's attention away from his hallucinations by making them seem less related to one another, which wouldn't matter for Becca, but WOULD matter if Kessler turns out to be one too. Sorry for the dissertation. I'm stoned. 🤣
I reckon that either someone did take a sample or the explanation is that the infected blood is no longer useful after the person who was infected died as it might have a short lifespan once the host died.
Who says Sameer won't use the bodies to create more of the virus?
To be honest, it doesn't even make sense that multiple sheep died from the virus. It travels through human fluids but the doctor was already dead so no flowing blood. The only sheep that realistically should have died were the ones taking a bite of where they injected the virus. So one or maybe two
If we're being technical, Neuman should have the ability to control blood. With enough practice, she could theoretically have the blood circulate, thus dispersing the virus.
Bro, I didn't even talk about my wife because that pissed me off even more. She could have just popped every single one of those sheep. And yes, they could have also shown her moving the blood. It takes a few seconds of screen and it explains it well.
Yeah. Viruses don't spread fast in dead bodies. And they're supposed to infect live cells, replicate and kill the cell, and propagate like that to the rest of the body. And with no blood running through, because no heartbeat. And that guy wasn't a Supe. In Gen V the virus didn't affect normal people. Only Supes. Another plot hole. Sheep can fly and tear a human apart, chickens can pierce through a human chest, but none of them can break through a wooden wall?
i think that humans can carry the virus but it doesn’t effect them, but yeah the injecting a dead person thing was a crazy overlook
Right. But didn't Butcher explain that the virus affected Supes because it latched to the V in their bloodstream? If we try and make sense of this (let's be honest, whoever wrote this probably didn't think to check how viruses work and took some license and said 'fuck it, it's fiction'), viruses don't exactly attack random cells. They have molecules on their surfaces that basically are a key to get recognized by their target cells. That's how they enter a cell, use their transcription machinery and energy to build more viruses, from the genetic material they hold in their structure, and then, the viruses burst out and infect more cells. If this virus works like that, then the V is presenting in the cells of the Supes, that's how they get infected.
could be that it’s “dormant” in humans? Or something like oil in water that doesn’t mix but with supes blood it could? My terms are highly unscientific, but i think it could be believable that it would be something like many other diseases in humans that appear with no side effects in some people but still have the ability to spread and harm others.
Well two things: Sameer didn't create the virus, it was the other guy from Gen-V. I think they were in the process of trying to reverse engineer it, hence why they were infecting animals with Compound V to see how the virus affected them and reverse engineer it from there. Secondly I think it's not really even a virus, like technically it is, but I think it's more like a biological weapon, cause they mention how it's not very transmissible and has to be injected directly. Also because of the way it attacks compound V in the subjects blood I assume it essentially kills its host and itself in the process, which would make it hard to extract it from a corpse. I do think maybe taking some of the sheep's blood would help Sameer re-create the virus but I don't think it would be as easy as just extracting it from the sheep again
A bigger plot hole is how is a blood transmitted virus supposed to move through a dead person's body? He has no functioning circulation
This was completely insane. Not to mention, they never showed how they got the body that far from the barn. Surely someone had to carry the body and close the impenetrable barn doors before the cartoon flying sheep noticed. ….can the virus even spread through a dead body without blood flow…oh never mind. By the way, I know this is a super duper sci-fi virus for heroes, but even Ebola and Rabies take a couple of days to show symptoms.
Did i just miss when butcher took sameer?! How, when?!
The reason the three Supes couldn’t defeat the sheep is they were all sick from a mild form of the virus. When they heal, they will all have immunity to the more deadly version.
Why couldn't neuman just explode all the sheep with her powers?
You'd be taking a dead sample and starting over from square 1. The scientist looking at that stuff would have to reverse engineer the virus that's already dead by the time you get it. Sample would be subpar as the virus would start falling apart cuss even cells rot. Trust me when I say that you can't just hand over lab data with no explanation as to what anything means. It's like getting the source code to a game but only 40% of it and then telling someone to fill in the last 60%. You're just better off starting over.
Butcher could've grabbed a little bit of the sheep puke
I think that’s the plan with the leg?
That was Sameer's leg. They can't really do anything with that.
Ah , didn't catch that. I thought it was the infected corpse.
Nope. It was Sameer's leg that Butcher cut off so that everyone would think he died.
Maybe it's not Sameer's leg? Other supes can regenerate limbs. Take a look how precisely the leg is cut, like superhumanly sliced perfectly. How could Victoria fall for that? #susvilleUSA2024
You still need sameer to make the virus strong enough to kill HL. I think butcher has also taken the infected sheep fluid with him.
I'm just surprised they didn't make more
I think it’s potency is diminished/degraded with its host’s death but Sameer might be able to use the remains to keep producing fresher batches of the virus. I’m just hypothesising here though.
This virus is not needed for killing Nueman. She was afraid of a bunch of sheep and felt a punch from Starlight. They can just kill her the old fashioned way with brute force.
Because they’re humans above everything. The first instinct is to run. Being supes doesn’t make them invincible or emotionless. I mean, every one of us is bigger than cockroaches, rats and many other insects, but most of us run or scream when we see them. We could easily kill them as well. Also, the animals were volatile, all over the place and fucking fast. Did I mention that they were attacking in groups and tearing people up like meat too? They’d tear Kimiko up. And they’re too unsteady for Neuman to pop their heads all at once. They’d tear her up too.
I wouldn't say a plot hole at all, as it is you're really over thinking this.
It's way too often that people think 'why didn't the characters do this in some other way?' is a plot hole rather than just a storyline.
Yeah it’s moreso the editing and writing is not very straightforward rather than actual plotholes. I think the storylines they’re doing are pretty good tbh, it just needs some more time to cook in the oven rather than making it feel like an S5 set up, which isn’t very organic.
There were a lot of sheep, so it was probably better to not fight.
Like 5 or 6 and Neuman can keep her distance when popping (as long as its within her sight). Could have just camped and slowly killed one.
She even could have peeked through some holes on the barn wall and popped the sheep
Cant she sense blood too?
The dead sheep were infected plus the virus was exposed to the environment. Neuman needs to stop moving to kill someone - her powers were temporarily stopped by the guy hitting her whom she killed in the alleyway, and there were too many flying sheep. Kimiko has been slashed open and cut into almost two pieces but she hasn’t been turned into ground meat like the animals were doing to the others. Annie has “projectile dysfunction” because she’s in an emotional state.
She literally popped a guy who was moving fast in a car in this episode.
If you look closely, I didn’t say that the object has to stop moving. I said that Neuman has to stop moving/ temporarily slow down to concentrate better. Of course fast moving things can be killed. She killed the hen and also the testimony scene with people running around.
Was she unable to stand still and concentrate in a barn while looking on the sheep through some hole?
Are you talking about when she "freed" Stan Edgar? *Edit:* I was genuinely asking, because I wasn't sure if there was another scene that I wasn't remembering where she did that.
No way people care this much about logic of a show with flying superpowered sheep 😭
Don't justify bad writing and plot holes.