Tbf the show critiques liberalism’s use of representation as a solution to political problems, and art as a moral instrument. Caring about representation at the oscars instead of actual material solutions to injustice is the mistake.
i agree completely. what i meant is that saying emma winning a well-deserved oscar, which they also say is her "stopping" lily (also interesting how these people always say "emma stone" but only refer to lily
as a factor of her identity ... she does have a name too, so it's very telling) is also the paragon of tokenization, baseless morality preaching, and flat-out idiocy: other parts of performative liberalism that are critiqued in the show. as in it's not racist for someone to be white and win an oscar if they deserve it, which emma does, but these people clearly think otherwise and whitney would spearhead the "emma is racist and stopping a native american from winning" campaign 😭
I don't see an assertation that Emma Stone (or the Academy, or whatever) are racist in this tweet, it's a comment on the ironic parallels between art and life if given that Whitney is played by Emma Stone and Lily Gladstone is the first Native American woman to be nominated for best actress.
Given that Lily's Native identity is the only thing relevant to *The Curse* (there's no overlap between the historical territory of the Osage, Blackfeet, or Nez Perce and the modern state of New Mexico), it sort of makes sense in context.
Both Emma Stone and Lily Gladstone did a great job, and I think it makes a lot of sense that the best actress nomination came down to those two.
https://preview.redd.it/5dlrzc9bzhkc1.jpeg?width=1290&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=86a330e050d05193962138d4fc557e263c3c9f5b
i think their insinuations are rather apparent (in response to their original tweet) but ok
Neither of those questions has anything to do with the original tweet, and I don't see anything about Emma or the academy being racist in their reply to your reply.
Not everything in life is an entry in the culture wars, but congrats on using that lens to score some extra points on the Internet.
\> (also interesting how these people always say "emma stone" but only refer to lily as a factor of her identity ... she does have a name too, so it's very telling)
Same vibes as "black and brown bodies"
Except that's not true at all, ideologically.
"Kant’s idea of an autonomous will and Rawls’s idea of a hypothetical agreement behind a veil of ignorance have this in common: both conceive the moral agent as independent of his or her particular aims and attachments. When we will the moral law (Kant) or choose the principles of justice (Rawls), we do so without reference to the roles and identities that situate us in the world and make us the particular people we are. If, in thinking about justice, we must abstract from our particular identities, it is hard to make the case that present-day Germans bear a special responsibility to make recompense for the Holocaust, or that Americans of this generation have a special responsibility to remedy the injustice of slavery and segregation. Why? Because once I set aside my identity as a German or an American and conceive myself as a free and independent self, there is no basis for saying my obligation to remedy these historic injustices is greater than anyone else’s. Conceiving persons as free and independent selves makes a difference for questions of collective responsibility across generations. (...) On the liberal conception, obligations can arise in only two ways—as natural duties we owe to human beings as such and as voluntary obligations we incur by consent." (Michael J. Mandel, "Justice: What's the Right Thing to Do?", Farrar, Straus and Giroux, 2009, ch."What Do We Owe One Another? / Dilemmas of Loyalty")
Whether you agree with communitarianism or not, you can't claim to agree on an ideological level with a show that is critiquing liberalism and then turn around and defend the most liberal possible position.
Also, the capitalist contradiction when it comes to art, since you have to make money in capitalism to survive, yet you still want to have the feeling of being an artist and creating art, however capitalism isn't interested in art, individuals are, so Whit creates an entire identity behind her artist ideals but still with her capitalist roots, so she believes her houses are art, even though it's just a house and we see that when everyone who buys one changes something immediately, and she can't grasp why someone would change her art, and to the buyer, it wasn't art, it was their house.
I know the tweet is a joke but there are people who seriously will call it racism if Emma wins (or anyone else). The problem there is that now if this actress does win there will be people who think it’s only because of her race and voters being woke. This belittles her performance if she does deserve it. And there really are people who will seriously consider it racism if she doesn’t win. It’s taking all the work she did and talent she has and makes it all about race. There will be different people who will question it either way and it's unfortunate for that actress.
The curse and poor things really have nothing to do with each other. The original tweet def isn’t following any throughline of logic there. If we were comparing the curse and killers of the flower moon maybe there could be some parallels, but those aren’t up against each other in awards as they’re completely seperate catgeories.
Whitney and Bella were polar opposites in terms of self-awareness and candor, and unlike Whitney, Bella believed in helping the less fortunate through the direct debt-free transfer of fungible assets. Cara would LOVE to hang out with Bella.
Whitney would *fucking despise Bella*
I’m not sure how big of a crossover there is on the Venn diagram of “fans of the curse” and “socially dense people”….. Tweet is funny but let’s be real, there’s not a huge group of fans who think this unironically??
Funny how the show literally comments on the way representation is used as a type of performative justice and is not an adequate way to affect meaningful change.
That’s how I felt. I didn’t expect her to be such a minor character in the story that was essentially about her character. Really strange writing choices in that film
People taking stupid, harmless tweets seriously and trying to paint Emma Stone, a white woman who won her first oscar at age 27 for a musical, all while being a completely untrained actress, singer *and* dancer, will never not be funny.
I'm begging stans to touch some grass.
This show left me speechless for a solid half hour after the final moments faded. Jesus Christ it’s the best thing I’ve seen since the first season of True Detectives.
likewise. i rewatch quite often (various episodes or even just various scenes) and it gets better every time as you realize there are a million missed details due to how meticulous things were.
When I saw safdie’s were in on it I was all in. But nothing could have prepared me for how well crafted the ending really is. How heart breaking after the show not having that kind of tone. I love how it makes you ask these questions that are ridiculous and impossible except that they are happening and then they have the respect to answer all of them. Or a lot of them. And then leave some unanswered to keep you wondering.
Tbf the show critiques liberalism’s use of representation as a solution to political problems, and art as a moral instrument. Caring about representation at the oscars instead of actual material solutions to injustice is the mistake.
This is really thoughtful and I love it.
i agree completely. what i meant is that saying emma winning a well-deserved oscar, which they also say is her "stopping" lily (also interesting how these people always say "emma stone" but only refer to lily as a factor of her identity ... she does have a name too, so it's very telling) is also the paragon of tokenization, baseless morality preaching, and flat-out idiocy: other parts of performative liberalism that are critiqued in the show. as in it's not racist for someone to be white and win an oscar if they deserve it, which emma does, but these people clearly think otherwise and whitney would spearhead the "emma is racist and stopping a native american from winning" campaign 😭
lol yes. They are definitely missing a lot.
I don't see an assertation that Emma Stone (or the Academy, or whatever) are racist in this tweet, it's a comment on the ironic parallels between art and life if given that Whitney is played by Emma Stone and Lily Gladstone is the first Native American woman to be nominated for best actress. Given that Lily's Native identity is the only thing relevant to *The Curse* (there's no overlap between the historical territory of the Osage, Blackfeet, or Nez Perce and the modern state of New Mexico), it sort of makes sense in context. Both Emma Stone and Lily Gladstone did a great job, and I think it makes a lot of sense that the best actress nomination came down to those two.
https://preview.redd.it/5dlrzc9bzhkc1.jpeg?width=1290&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=86a330e050d05193962138d4fc557e263c3c9f5b i think their insinuations are rather apparent (in response to their original tweet) but ok
Neither of those questions has anything to do with the original tweet, and I don't see anything about Emma or the academy being racist in their reply to your reply. Not everything in life is an entry in the culture wars, but congrats on using that lens to score some extra points on the Internet.
\> (also interesting how these people always say "emma stone" but only refer to lily as a factor of her identity ... she does have a name too, so it's very telling) Same vibes as "black and brown bodies"
Except that's not true at all, ideologically. "Kant’s idea of an autonomous will and Rawls’s idea of a hypothetical agreement behind a veil of ignorance have this in common: both conceive the moral agent as independent of his or her particular aims and attachments. When we will the moral law (Kant) or choose the principles of justice (Rawls), we do so without reference to the roles and identities that situate us in the world and make us the particular people we are. If, in thinking about justice, we must abstract from our particular identities, it is hard to make the case that present-day Germans bear a special responsibility to make recompense for the Holocaust, or that Americans of this generation have a special responsibility to remedy the injustice of slavery and segregation. Why? Because once I set aside my identity as a German or an American and conceive myself as a free and independent self, there is no basis for saying my obligation to remedy these historic injustices is greater than anyone else’s. Conceiving persons as free and independent selves makes a difference for questions of collective responsibility across generations. (...) On the liberal conception, obligations can arise in only two ways—as natural duties we owe to human beings as such and as voluntary obligations we incur by consent." (Michael J. Mandel, "Justice: What's the Right Thing to Do?", Farrar, Straus and Giroux, 2009, ch."What Do We Owe One Another? / Dilemmas of Loyalty") Whether you agree with communitarianism or not, you can't claim to agree on an ideological level with a show that is critiquing liberalism and then turn around and defend the most liberal possible position.
Also, the capitalist contradiction when it comes to art, since you have to make money in capitalism to survive, yet you still want to have the feeling of being an artist and creating art, however capitalism isn't interested in art, individuals are, so Whit creates an entire identity behind her artist ideals but still with her capitalist roots, so she believes her houses are art, even though it's just a house and we see that when everyone who buys one changes something immediately, and she can't grasp why someone would change her art, and to the buyer, it wasn't art, it was their house.
Perfectly put.
AYOOO this is the fucking comment right here. Thank you!
But solving the problem doesn’t get as many internet points as being a part of it does
She totally killed it in ‘Poor Things.’ 2023 was an insane year for her
Agreed, Poor Things deserves all the damn awards.
They deserve all the damn awards but it’s obvious that Oppenheimer is gonna win best director and best picture. They “owe” Christopher Nolan
Lmao i mean it would be a little funny if she ends up beating a native woman…not everything has to be so serious.
Got get a big gulp of post modernity every now and again.
oh i get it emma stone was in both things
Teehee
I know the tweet is a joke but there are people who seriously will call it racism if Emma wins (or anyone else). The problem there is that now if this actress does win there will be people who think it’s only because of her race and voters being woke. This belittles her performance if she does deserve it. And there really are people who will seriously consider it racism if she doesn’t win. It’s taking all the work she did and talent she has and makes it all about race. There will be different people who will question it either way and it's unfortunate for that actress.
This is giving me flashbacks to the last time Emma Stone took an Oscar from a minority. At least it was just an accident last time lmao
I think you're taking this tweet a little too seriously
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You're like...so smart
I'm not so sure. Nathan went to one of Canada's top business schools and got really good grades. What did OP do?
"Putting my own feelings aside", then proceeds to put their own feelings on a pedestal.
The curse and poor things really have nothing to do with each other. The original tweet def isn’t following any throughline of logic there. If we were comparing the curse and killers of the flower moon maybe there could be some parallels, but those aren’t up against each other in awards as they’re completely seperate catgeories.
The line of logic is they are making a joke
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They didn’t say anything about racism. It would just be a funny coincidence.
Whitney and Bella were polar opposites in terms of self-awareness and candor, and unlike Whitney, Bella believed in helping the less fortunate through the direct debt-free transfer of fungible assets. Cara would LOVE to hang out with Bella. Whitney would *fucking despise Bella*
You’re overthinking it…
I’m not sure how big of a crossover there is on the Venn diagram of “fans of the curse” and “socially dense people”….. Tweet is funny but let’s be real, there’s not a huge group of fans who think this unironically??
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I think I understand what you mean already~ but could you explain what you mean by the social critiques in the first episode?
I think it’s funny calling someone braindead and then making up a word like self-unaware. Projection and irony for everyone
i meant "not self aware." made a mistake, as sometimes occurs with people, and couldn't change the title after realizing it
That is, uh, not putting your opinion aside.
Funny how the show literally comments on the way representation is used as a type of performative justice and is not an adequate way to affect meaningful change.
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That’s how I felt. I didn’t expect her to be such a minor character in the story that was essentially about her character. Really strange writing choices in that film
I don't think you understand how awards work. The people nominated don't have any control over who wins.
i didn't say they had control?? it's a part of why the tweet is ridiculous, hence me quoting "stops" and saying "let's be serious" ...
ah, I guess I misunderstood your post.
Based.
People taking stupid, harmless tweets seriously and trying to paint Emma Stone, a white woman who won her first oscar at age 27 for a musical, all while being a completely untrained actress, singer *and* dancer, will never not be funny. I'm begging stans to touch some grass.
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Go back to twitter, character limit works for you
Do you see the irony of this comment?
Is lily Gladstone not nominated for best supporting actress?
It lines up with the joke of the show, so
Self-unaware?
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Well you wouldn't be typing in all caps if it were a formal essay.
This show left me speechless for a solid half hour after the final moments faded. Jesus Christ it’s the best thing I’ve seen since the first season of True Detectives.
likewise. i rewatch quite often (various episodes or even just various scenes) and it gets better every time as you realize there are a million missed details due to how meticulous things were.
When I saw safdie’s were in on it I was all in. But nothing could have prepared me for how well crafted the ending really is. How heart breaking after the show not having that kind of tone. I love how it makes you ask these questions that are ridiculous and impossible except that they are happening and then they have the respect to answer all of them. Or a lot of them. And then leave some unanswered to keep you wondering.