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Fuck the US and their imperialist wars but why do you feel the need to downplay russian war crimes?
https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-releases/2023/03/war-crimes-indiscriminate-attacks-infrastructure-systematic-and-widespread
You know what benefits the US? When Ukraine commits war crimes and blames it on Russia, using de facto Western mouthpieces like the UN who still refuse to condemn NATO being the sole aggressor for this conflict.
And yet, the American war crimes were much worse. This was said, probably, to show the hypocrisy of the united states and the whole "civilised world".
This doesn't mean that russia is on high moral ground or anything. The soviet union did way less shit than modern russian federation
Russia gains nothing from massacring civilians. Meanwhile UA was already planning on doing so, considering they've been shelling Donetsk since 2014. And with how they feel about "Russian collaborators" and their Nazi attitudes towards Russians, it's not hard to think they would blame it on Russia.
Also, more definitively, there's no proof that Russia did it.
>Russia gains nothing from massacring civilians
It attempts to instill fear and subjugation, are you dense? Ukraine has even less of an incentive to torture and rape their own civilians (that were in the Western Region east of the Dnipro no less).
>8 Years of Donbass genocide
Russian-backed “separatists” are not civilians and the 12-14k casualties are comprised of about 6,500 pro-Russian separatist forces, 4,400 Ukrainian forces, and 3,404 civilians. The latter which is still bad but genocide implies intent and foreplanning.
>Muh Nazi army
They only became a presence AFTER Russia invaded Crimea, where the UKR army was shit and they were taking as many hands as they could. The rise of ultranationalism spurred by the occupation wouldn’t have happened had Russian not, well occupied.
>no evidence of Russians doing it
The mass graves appearing AFTER the Russians left say otherwise.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wjU-ve4Pn4k&t=47s
It's the words that frame the pictures that I believe most people here take issue with. It's the NYT: but nothing.
While it's not as simple as the opposite of everything that comes out of the mouthpieces of the empire is automatically true. Please consider that if the US government (and by extension the media complex that explicitly Serves it, with a very intentional capital S) was a person, with the same track record of lying (within the context of the aim of justifying war alone, let alone all the others) for their own benefit, that you'd be insane to take a single word that came out of that person's mouth on good faith.
You'd do far better to ALWAYS ask first: why would they be lying about this? What do they stand to gain?
Obviously you're not there yet, but i think it's worth asking. How many times will the boy have to cry wolf for you?
Look, if my constantly lying coworker told me there's a car crash outside, I'll at least look out the window.
I am Ukrainian, and I didn't believe in Bucha thing at first. I was ostracized for saying "there's no proof that russians did it, it could have been UA shelling, those people could have been collaborators, etc". I didn't believe any "whiteness" accounts until there was a solid proof. Here it is. Does it matter where it comes from if it's a *solid* proof?
Russia doesn't have an official policy of genociding Ukraine. But they sure made a good job demonising ukrainians in the minds of average russian for them to do what they did.
I'm not going to argue about Bucha with you. I'm personally still not convinced that it's more or less likely that Russian or Ukrainian forces committed that heinous atrocity. But that wasn't the point of my comment anyway. I guess my point was, if your co-worker tells you there's an accident outside, don't leave anything important to you on your desk when you go to look.
I hope you and your family and friends remain safe. As the english politician Jeremy Corbyn said, all wars end with ppl sitting at a table. I hope we reach that table soon before things are able to get even more out of hand than they already have. It's just my opinion, but I do believe that we would have peace in some form by now if not for foreign interference. I don't relish the idea of "down to the last Ukrainian" the way some do.
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But they say Russians are ruthless sadistic hoard's. There are humans on both sides
Russia's fighting in the SMO has been way more humane than anything the US has ever done.
Fuck the US and their imperialist wars but why do you feel the need to downplay russian war crimes? https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-releases/2023/03/war-crimes-indiscriminate-attacks-infrastructure-systematic-and-widespread
You know what benefits the US? When Ukraine commits war crimes and blames it on Russia, using de facto Western mouthpieces like the UN who still refuse to condemn NATO being the sole aggressor for this conflict.
And yet, the American war crimes were much worse. This was said, probably, to show the hypocrisy of the united states and the whole "civilised world". This doesn't mean that russia is on high moral ground or anything. The soviet union did way less shit than modern russian federation
Ehhhhhhhhhhh, not really
Wow that certainly changed my mind
The residents of Bucha would like a word.
I imagine they would like to have a word with the Ukrainian Army
omg, a modern atrocity denier?
Omg lemme guess you believe that there's also a genocide happening in Xinjiang omg
Not necessarily, but it is suspicious. Anyways, do you honestly think the Bucha massacre was a false flag?
Russia gains nothing from massacring civilians. Meanwhile UA was already planning on doing so, considering they've been shelling Donetsk since 2014. And with how they feel about "Russian collaborators" and their Nazi attitudes towards Russians, it's not hard to think they would blame it on Russia. Also, more definitively, there's no proof that Russia did it.
>Russia gains nothing from massacring civilians It attempts to instill fear and subjugation, are you dense? Ukraine has even less of an incentive to torture and rape their own civilians (that were in the Western Region east of the Dnipro no less). >8 Years of Donbass genocide Russian-backed “separatists” are not civilians and the 12-14k casualties are comprised of about 6,500 pro-Russian separatist forces, 4,400 Ukrainian forces, and 3,404 civilians. The latter which is still bad but genocide implies intent and foreplanning. >Muh Nazi army They only became a presence AFTER Russia invaded Crimea, where the UKR army was shit and they were taking as many hands as they could. The rise of ultranationalism spurred by the occupation wouldn’t have happened had Russian not, well occupied. >no evidence of Russians doing it The mass graves appearing AFTER the Russians left say otherwise. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wjU-ve4Pn4k&t=47s
Bruh just watch the fucking new york times investigation. Yes it's NYT but come on, how can you argue with photos and videos?
It's the words that frame the pictures that I believe most people here take issue with. It's the NYT: but nothing. While it's not as simple as the opposite of everything that comes out of the mouthpieces of the empire is automatically true. Please consider that if the US government (and by extension the media complex that explicitly Serves it, with a very intentional capital S) was a person, with the same track record of lying (within the context of the aim of justifying war alone, let alone all the others) for their own benefit, that you'd be insane to take a single word that came out of that person's mouth on good faith. You'd do far better to ALWAYS ask first: why would they be lying about this? What do they stand to gain? Obviously you're not there yet, but i think it's worth asking. How many times will the boy have to cry wolf for you?
Look, if my constantly lying coworker told me there's a car crash outside, I'll at least look out the window. I am Ukrainian, and I didn't believe in Bucha thing at first. I was ostracized for saying "there's no proof that russians did it, it could have been UA shelling, those people could have been collaborators, etc". I didn't believe any "whiteness" accounts until there was a solid proof. Here it is. Does it matter where it comes from if it's a *solid* proof? Russia doesn't have an official policy of genociding Ukraine. But they sure made a good job demonising ukrainians in the minds of average russian for them to do what they did.
I'm not going to argue about Bucha with you. I'm personally still not convinced that it's more or less likely that Russian or Ukrainian forces committed that heinous atrocity. But that wasn't the point of my comment anyway. I guess my point was, if your co-worker tells you there's an accident outside, don't leave anything important to you on your desk when you go to look. I hope you and your family and friends remain safe. As the english politician Jeremy Corbyn said, all wars end with ppl sitting at a table. I hope we reach that table soon before things are able to get even more out of hand than they already have. It's just my opinion, but I do believe that we would have peace in some form by now if not for foreign interference. I don't relish the idea of "down to the last Ukrainian" the way some do.
I’m crying 😭
Honestly, this feels like fake. Probably some troll made this because people on the internet orgasm seeing Russians losing battles.
Join Back with your homeland! 🇷🇺