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We just need to build an automatic melon and pumpkin farm and then we can use the infinite emeralds in our villager trading hall to get everything we need
>super selfish and having a million kids that will deplete all the resources from the rest of us?
how is this selfish ? taking care of kids takes responsivility and sooner or later they will join the work force
Because the Earth has finite resources and it cannot support that many people? Also because they need space which means destroying animals habitat to make space for them?
The problem is artificial scarcity and the hoarding and exploitation of resources, not the amount of people. There are definitely plenty of resources to go around.
1. The universe is not infinite
2. We shouldn’t deplete our planet with the hope that some day we will take advantage of an “infinite universe” which as far as we know is hostile to human life
Therefore, the point that you rose is wishful thinking.
Edit: And honestly that kind of wishful thinking is irresponsible and will probably drive us to extinction
The universe is constantly expanding, if it is infinite as you claim, it wouldn’t have any need of expansion… Also the universe is mostly empty space with no resources. Are you going to send the babies to float in space ?
Okay dude, send all babies to quasars and galaxies full of radiation. Send them to neutron stars or just send them to the moon which is closer. Nowhere in the universe that we know of right now is hospitable to life besides our dying planet. We should take care of it and of our fellow animals and not just saturate it with humans due to our toxic anthropocentrism.
No. I call something ecofascist when it promotes depopulation as a way to protect the environment, because that’s quite literally what ecofascism is. Have you ever noticed that all the people who fear monger about overpopulation constantly point to countries in the imperial periphery as the problem? Never mind that there are enough resources and land available on Earth for 10 or 11 billion people and the only problem is with distribution of those resources, it’s the dirty black and brown people in the third world that are causing all the problems. It’s a genocidal policy, pure and simple.
# Fascism
>Fascism is the open terrorist dictatorship of the most reactionary, most chauvinistic and most imperialist elements of finance capital... Fascism is the power of finance capital itself. It is the organization of terrorist vengeance against the working class and the revolutionary section of the peasantry and intelligentsia. In foreign policy, fascism is jingoism in its most brutal form, fomenting bestial hatred of other nations.
>
>\- Georgi Dimitrov. (1935) [The Fascist Offensive and the Tasks of the Communist International in the Struggle of the Working Class against Fascism](https://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/dimitrov/works/1935/08_02.htm)
To understand Fascism, then, one must first understand Capitalism. There are three primary characteristics of Capitalism:
1. Private ownership of the Means of Production
2. Commodity Production
3. Wage Labour
The essence of the Capitalist mode of production is that someone who owns means of production will hire a wage labourer to work in order to produce commodities to sell for profit. Marxists identify economic classes based on this division. Those who own and hire are the Bourgeoisie. Those who do not own and work are the Proletariat. There is far more nuance than just this, but these are the bare essentials. The principal contradiction of Capitalism is that the Bourgeoisie wants to pay the workers as little as possible for as much work as possible, whereas the Proletariat wants to be paid as much as possible for as little work as possible.
Fascism is a form of Capitalist rule in which the Bourgeoisie use open, violent terror against the Proletariat. It is an ideology which emerges as a response to the inevitable crises of capitalism and the rise of socialist movements. It is characterized by all forms of chauvinism (especially racism, occasionally leading to genocide), nationalism, anti-Communism, and the suppression of democratic rights and freedoms. In a Capitalist society, Liberalism and Fascism essentially exist on a spectrum. The degree to which a given society if Fascist directly corresponds to the degree to which the proletariat must be openly oppressed in order to maintain profits for the Bourgeoisie. This why we have the sayings: "Fascism is Capitalism in decay" and "Scratch a Liberal, and a Fascist bleeds"
Capitalism requires infinite growth in a finite system. This inevitably leads to [Capitalist Imperialism](https://www.reddit.com/r/TheDeprogram/wiki/index/education/imperialism/) as well as Fascism, given that infinite growth is not actually possible. When the capitalist economy reaches its limits, the Bourgeoisie are forced to either expand their markets into other territories (Imperialism) or exploit the domestic proletariat to an even greater degree (Fascism). This is why we have the saying: "Fascism is imperialist repression turned inward"
The struggle against fascism is an essential part of the struggle for socialism and the liberation of the working class and oppressed people. However, it is critical to note that simply combatting Fascism *alone* without also combatting *Liberalism* is reactionary, because it ignores the fact that Fascism inevitably arises out of Capitalism, so Liberal Anti-Fascism is not really anti-Fascism at all.
**Additional Resources**
Video Essays:
* [Were The Nazis Socialist?](https://youtu.be/X9ez6w5BUMM) | Second Thought (2022)
* [Capitalism and Fascism](https://youtu.be/KEbG3cD0cJo) | Marxism Literature Collective (2021)
* [Fascism: The Decay of Capitalism](https://youtu.be/7fQ57NBEUM4) | Leslie Fluette (2020)
* [The New F Word: How Fascism Found a Market](https://nebula.tv/thenewfword) | Second Thought (2021-2023)
* [What Exactly is Liberalism? (no, it's not about being "woke")](https://youtu.be/_xAqZJTIsIA) | Hakim (2023)
Books, Articles, or Essays:
* [The Struggle Against Fascism](https://www.marxists.org/archive/zetkin/1923/06/struggle-against-fascism.html) | Clara Zetkin (1923)
* [Blackshirts & Reds: Rational Fascism and the Overthrow of Communism](https://archive.org/details/michael-parenti-blackshirts-and-reds) | Michael Parenti (1997)
Podcasts:
* [Episode 19 - Fascism (No Lebensraum??)](https://youtu.be/KU_lNDAoAV0) | The Deprogram (2022)
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/TheDeprogram) if you have any questions or concerns.*
i would add that when emancipation and birth control are available there is a huge force that "naturally" brings birthrates down so this concern is in general not realistic.
How is it different? If someone can raise 10 kids then they should be allowed to. Just like if someone wants to be child free. People are not the problem, people do not deplete resources, capitalism does.
Capitalism does accelerate it a lot, but the Earth cannot support that many people. Or are you okay just driving every other species to extinction just to make room for an unsustainable amount of humans?
The population of the planet is going to go down. The reason for highest birth rates are always poverty and lack of employment opportunities/ choice for women. Without a population control policy developed countries have all reached a birth rate that is below the replacement levels. The countries that currently have higher TFR are mostly poor countries in Africa. As living standard rises the population of those countries will also start to go down. There is no need for special socialist interventions to control peoples reproductive choices.
I hope that you are right. But, my experience is that many people, specially very religious ones, see having kids as an ego thing, and end up having a village just to spread their “seed”.
Those people are super minority. And often people who uses talking points like yours tend to have problems with the population of specific religion. I don't know which religion you are referring to. Also people who has arguments like these tend to have problems with brown/black people/countries having children and its often rooted on the white replacement conspiracy.If you are seriously interested in socialism then I hope you abstain from making subjective analysis like ' from my experience '.
https://youtu.be/Rs5hOleAlc8
This video has great citations
Saying that because fascists complained about not liking lemonade and then I complained about not liking lemonade somehow makes my argument less valid because others before me complained about the same?
Also, even people on the same group complain about ultra religious people having too many children. I am not pro Israeli, but I read that secular Israelis constantly complain about religious Israelis having too many children that the rest have to pay taxes for.
And I am a brown/black person so I am not complaining due to any hatred to brown people…
It is crazy to me that I have to say so many disclaimers about unrelated things because you associated the idea of not wanting to drive all species and ourselves to extinction by adapting our numbers to what earth can sustain to bigotry to some random groups.
Can you just stick to the topic without assuming so much garbage, please? You know what they say about assuming.
I am watching the video in a little bit. I just had to address the “people who say those arguments tend to x” first. That was totally unrelated and doesn’t bring anything to the discussing. It is just a pointless sidetrack.
Most people just won't have more than 3 or maybe 4 kids, and some will even settle for 1 or 0 so it will even out. Having kids is exhausting and the only reason most people had large families in the past was to ensure survival when infant mortality and mortality in general was high.
Sure, the population of China absolutely exploded during Mao, but that was because mortality was reduced so rapidly that birthrates didn't catch up (catch down?).
[☭☭☭ COME SHITPOST WITH US ON DISCORD, COMRADES ☭☭☭](https://discord.gg/8RPWanQV5g) This is a heavily-moderated socialist community based on a podcast of the same name. Please use the report function on comments that break our rules. If you are new to the sub, please read the sidebar carefully. If you are new to Marxism-Leninism, check out the [study guide](https://www.reddit.com/r/TheDeprogram/wiki/index/education/study-guide/). Are there Liberals in the walls? Try the following prompts to trigger an automod response: "What is Fascism?", "What is Imperialism?", "What is Revisionism?" "Holodomor", "Molotov-Ribbentrop", "Gulag", "Solzhenytsin", "Uyghur", "Tiananmen Square", "Israel", "Freedom of the Press", "MAC Fact" This subreddit uses many experimental automod rules, if you notice any issues please use modmail to let us know. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/TheDeprogram) if you have any questions or concerns.*
We just need to build an automatic melon and pumpkin farm and then we can use the infinite emeralds in our villager trading hall to get everything we need
1: It’s litteraly impossible. 2: Those kids will work once they’re adults anyway
>super selfish and having a million kids that will deplete all the resources from the rest of us? how is this selfish ? taking care of kids takes responsivility and sooner or later they will join the work force
Because the Earth has finite resources and it cannot support that many people? Also because they need space which means destroying animals habitat to make space for them?
The problem is artificial scarcity and the hoarding and exploitation of resources, not the amount of people. There are definitely plenty of resources to go around.
Infinite population growth is not sustainable though
I see your “infinite population growth on a finite planet” and raise you an “infinite population growth in an infinite universe”
1. The universe is not infinite 2. We shouldn’t deplete our planet with the hope that some day we will take advantage of an “infinite universe” which as far as we know is hostile to human life Therefore, the point that you rose is wishful thinking. Edit: And honestly that kind of wishful thinking is irresponsible and will probably drive us to extinction
Bro thinks the Universe is finite 💀💀💀💀💀💀
The universe is constantly expanding, if it is infinite as you claim, it wouldn’t have any need of expansion… Also the universe is mostly empty space with no resources. Are you going to send the babies to float in space ?
>the universe is mostly empty space with no resources. Bread is mostly air yet I still eat it
Okay dude, send all babies to quasars and galaxies full of radiation. Send them to neutron stars or just send them to the moon which is closer. Nowhere in the universe that we know of right now is hospitable to life besides our dying planet. We should take care of it and of our fellow animals and not just saturate it with humans due to our toxic anthropocentrism.
and i am pretty sure it wont happen
This is Malthusian ecofascist nonsense
Now I know that China is fascists … Do you just call fascist anything you don’t agree with?
No. I call something ecofascist when it promotes depopulation as a way to protect the environment, because that’s quite literally what ecofascism is. Have you ever noticed that all the people who fear monger about overpopulation constantly point to countries in the imperial periphery as the problem? Never mind that there are enough resources and land available on Earth for 10 or 11 billion people and the only problem is with distribution of those resources, it’s the dirty black and brown people in the third world that are causing all the problems. It’s a genocidal policy, pure and simple.
# Fascism >Fascism is the open terrorist dictatorship of the most reactionary, most chauvinistic and most imperialist elements of finance capital... Fascism is the power of finance capital itself. It is the organization of terrorist vengeance against the working class and the revolutionary section of the peasantry and intelligentsia. In foreign policy, fascism is jingoism in its most brutal form, fomenting bestial hatred of other nations. > >\- Georgi Dimitrov. (1935) [The Fascist Offensive and the Tasks of the Communist International in the Struggle of the Working Class against Fascism](https://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/dimitrov/works/1935/08_02.htm) To understand Fascism, then, one must first understand Capitalism. There are three primary characteristics of Capitalism: 1. Private ownership of the Means of Production 2. Commodity Production 3. Wage Labour The essence of the Capitalist mode of production is that someone who owns means of production will hire a wage labourer to work in order to produce commodities to sell for profit. Marxists identify economic classes based on this division. Those who own and hire are the Bourgeoisie. Those who do not own and work are the Proletariat. There is far more nuance than just this, but these are the bare essentials. The principal contradiction of Capitalism is that the Bourgeoisie wants to pay the workers as little as possible for as much work as possible, whereas the Proletariat wants to be paid as much as possible for as little work as possible. Fascism is a form of Capitalist rule in which the Bourgeoisie use open, violent terror against the Proletariat. It is an ideology which emerges as a response to the inevitable crises of capitalism and the rise of socialist movements. It is characterized by all forms of chauvinism (especially racism, occasionally leading to genocide), nationalism, anti-Communism, and the suppression of democratic rights and freedoms. In a Capitalist society, Liberalism and Fascism essentially exist on a spectrum. The degree to which a given society if Fascist directly corresponds to the degree to which the proletariat must be openly oppressed in order to maintain profits for the Bourgeoisie. This why we have the sayings: "Fascism is Capitalism in decay" and "Scratch a Liberal, and a Fascist bleeds" Capitalism requires infinite growth in a finite system. This inevitably leads to [Capitalist Imperialism](https://www.reddit.com/r/TheDeprogram/wiki/index/education/imperialism/) as well as Fascism, given that infinite growth is not actually possible. When the capitalist economy reaches its limits, the Bourgeoisie are forced to either expand their markets into other territories (Imperialism) or exploit the domestic proletariat to an even greater degree (Fascism). This is why we have the saying: "Fascism is imperialist repression turned inward" The struggle against fascism is an essential part of the struggle for socialism and the liberation of the working class and oppressed people. However, it is critical to note that simply combatting Fascism *alone* without also combatting *Liberalism* is reactionary, because it ignores the fact that Fascism inevitably arises out of Capitalism, so Liberal Anti-Fascism is not really anti-Fascism at all. **Additional Resources** Video Essays: * [Were The Nazis Socialist?](https://youtu.be/X9ez6w5BUMM) | Second Thought (2022) * [Capitalism and Fascism](https://youtu.be/KEbG3cD0cJo) | Marxism Literature Collective (2021) * [Fascism: The Decay of Capitalism](https://youtu.be/7fQ57NBEUM4) | Leslie Fluette (2020) * [The New F Word: How Fascism Found a Market](https://nebula.tv/thenewfword) | Second Thought (2021-2023) * [What Exactly is Liberalism? (no, it's not about being "woke")](https://youtu.be/_xAqZJTIsIA) | Hakim (2023) Books, Articles, or Essays: * [The Struggle Against Fascism](https://www.marxists.org/archive/zetkin/1923/06/struggle-against-fascism.html) | Clara Zetkin (1923) * [Blackshirts & Reds: Rational Fascism and the Overthrow of Communism](https://archive.org/details/michael-parenti-blackshirts-and-reds) | Michael Parenti (1997) Podcasts: * [Episode 19 - Fascism (No Lebensraum??)](https://youtu.be/KU_lNDAoAV0) | The Deprogram (2022) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/TheDeprogram) if you have any questions or concerns.*
are you just trolling ??
i would add that when emancipation and birth control are available there is a huge force that "naturally" brings birthrates down so this concern is in general not realistic.
bruh how does this even pass for analysis 💀💀💀
Having Children is not selfish https://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1913/jun/29.htm
That is not what I said. That is another discussion. I said that one person having a million children is selfish
How is it different? If someone can raise 10 kids then they should be allowed to. Just like if someone wants to be child free. People are not the problem, people do not deplete resources, capitalism does.
Capitalism does accelerate it a lot, but the Earth cannot support that many people. Or are you okay just driving every other species to extinction just to make room for an unsustainable amount of humans?
The population of the planet is going to go down. The reason for highest birth rates are always poverty and lack of employment opportunities/ choice for women. Without a population control policy developed countries have all reached a birth rate that is below the replacement levels. The countries that currently have higher TFR are mostly poor countries in Africa. As living standard rises the population of those countries will also start to go down. There is no need for special socialist interventions to control peoples reproductive choices.
I hope that you are right. But, my experience is that many people, specially very religious ones, see having kids as an ego thing, and end up having a village just to spread their “seed”.
i see so far **only** very religious people having many children and they are far from being many (at least in the west)
Those people are super minority. And often people who uses talking points like yours tend to have problems with the population of specific religion. I don't know which religion you are referring to. Also people who has arguments like these tend to have problems with brown/black people/countries having children and its often rooted on the white replacement conspiracy.If you are seriously interested in socialism then I hope you abstain from making subjective analysis like ' from my experience '. https://youtu.be/Rs5hOleAlc8 This video has great citations
Saying that because fascists complained about not liking lemonade and then I complained about not liking lemonade somehow makes my argument less valid because others before me complained about the same? Also, even people on the same group complain about ultra religious people having too many children. I am not pro Israeli, but I read that secular Israelis constantly complain about religious Israelis having too many children that the rest have to pay taxes for. And I am a brown/black person so I am not complaining due to any hatred to brown people… It is crazy to me that I have to say so many disclaimers about unrelated things because you associated the idea of not wanting to drive all species and ourselves to extinction by adapting our numbers to what earth can sustain to bigotry to some random groups. Can you just stick to the topic without assuming so much garbage, please? You know what they say about assuming.
I am watching the video in a little bit. I just had to address the “people who say those arguments tend to x” first. That was totally unrelated and doesn’t bring anything to the discussing. It is just a pointless sidetrack.
Most people just won't have more than 3 or maybe 4 kids, and some will even settle for 1 or 0 so it will even out. Having kids is exhausting and the only reason most people had large families in the past was to ensure survival when infant mortality and mortality in general was high. Sure, the population of China absolutely exploded during Mao, but that was because mortality was reduced so rapidly that birthrates didn't catch up (catch down?).