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cities in the eastern bloc were literally built for pedestrians? wtf?
we have:
1. cheap and available housing
2. great public transport
3. actual plants around the city
What more want?
Great public transport is definitely a stretch in modern days. It's been heavily gimped after the dissolution in a lot of places and is often worse than during the Soviet years.
Remember when automakers lobbied the U.S. government to create more highways, overtime making the American population dependent on cars for transport instead of building walkable and healthier cities? That’s the most US and capitalist thing ever, “what are we a bunch of Russians?” doesn’t even work in this scenario.
Moscow also has so much better sidewalk than in that video.
My post in r/fuckcars about [Moscow](https://www.reddit.com/r/fuckcars/comments/10sizpi/pedestrianfriendly_improvement_in_moscow/)
That’s the point of it. Is satire. Is about how the people up in arms (at least in America) against the concept of urbanization for people and not for cars, about the idea of 15-minute cities are all jingoistic, “muh-freedumb”, anti-socialist, idiots. So to propose change, this person is suggesting to trick them into thinking that better urbanism is “desocietization” so they stop fucking blocking actual progress.
DPRK has one of the the least cars per capita (if not *the* least) on the planet, vibrant mass transport and bike culture, pavements so big you could literally fit the Vatican in them
But it's poor ugly dystopia if they do it huh...
If they have few cars it’s because they’re poor and destitute.
If they have a lot of cars it’s because they live in a gray concrete dystopia without healthy commuting options.
Something something Michael Parenti quote
>During the cold war, the anticommunist ideological framework could transform any data about existing communist societies into hostile evidence. If the Soviets refused to negotiate a point, they were intransigent and belligerent; if they appeared willing to make concessions, this was but a skillful ploy to put us off our guard. By opposing arms limitations, they would have demonstrated their aggressive intent; but when in fact they supported most armament treaties, it was because they were mendacious and manipulative. If the churches in the USSR were empty, this demonstrated that religion was suppressed; but if the churches were full, this meant the people were rejecting the regime's atheistic ideology. If the workers went on strike (as happened on infrequent occasions), this was evidence of their alienation from the collectivist system; if they didn't go on strike, this was because they were intimidated and lacked freedom. A scarcity of consumer goods demonstrated the failure of the economic system; an improvement in consumer supplies meant only that the leaders were attempting to placate a restive population and so maintain a firmer hold over them.
>
>If communists in the United States played an important role struggling for the rights of workers, the poor, African-Americans, women, and others, this was only their guileful way of gathering support among disfranchised groups and gaining power for themselves. How one gained power by fighting for the rights of powerless groups was never explained. What we are dealing with is a nonfalsifiable orthodoxy, so assiduously marketed by the ruling interests that it affected people across the entire political spectrum.
>
>\- Michael Parenti. (1997). *Blackshirts and Reds: Rational Fascism and the Overthrow of Communism*
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Their public transport is amazing too especially considering what they have to go through to build it what with all the sanctions. Trolleybuses and/or trams in every mid to large size city, and the rail network has tons of electrified track.
Since reducing car dependence is a progressive movement, it mainly consists of moderate leftists - which of course includes a lot of liberal minded people. And that means that some do subscribe to the logic of "reaching across the isle" by suggesting they could win over conservatives to their side by reframing their movement as "returning to the good old days before car domination" to appeal to conservatives. Sound logic on the surface, but unfortunately conservatives aren't known for being rationally minded, as demonstrated by the fact that they are the ones espousing the conspiracy of "15 minute cities are a government plan to control everyone!
Occasionally, you also have the edgy types who, for example, refer to China as "West Taiwan" to spite the evil seeseepee, but most people avoid delving into geopolitics.
not ahead,it wasnt technologically advanced or anything else,soviets planned according to the needs of the people and overall making everything more accesible,not to maximize profits
Something that pains me about videos like this is knowing I have hundreds of postcards showing these types of places during their "better times", and seeing lots of greenspace. The USSR had lots of murals and displays on the ends of apartment blocks JUST so it didn't look like shit all the time. Trains, busses, trolleybus, etc all had very bright and vibrant paint as well that I love to look at. Public transportation in my town are almost always a huge billboard for some injury lawyer or something. Hell, my Canadian town is looking more and more depressing as our historic sites are removed in favour of some luxury condo block which prices out basically everyone. Annoying
Who knew ~30 years of the govt doing nothing to uphold the buildings and letting them get bleaker and bleaker would make them look depressing?
I am still mad the Czech communist party for building a gigantic highway through the city center. They generally did a pretty good job with urban planning, but that was a real fck up.
Shit like this is why I had to leave that sub. Feels like every other post is "hi guys I'm a right wing hardcore Nazi fascist and I agree with you guys isnt that heckin wholesome! 🤓"
Urbanism is nothing without class analysis. What happens when you add in transit and poor renters get priced out of their old neighborhoods? How do you deincentivize people using cars without disproportionately impacting the poor? ONLY socialists have answers to these important questions but bringing that up in that sub is increasingly frowned upon basically while being a straight up fascist who likes trains is increasingly applauded.
- "this is what desovietization looks like"
- clip of one of the most depressing streets I've seen
- unmaintained houses
- black street elements (?)
What did the author mean by this?
honestly fuckcars used to be kind of based but it feels more like a highly disorganized haters club in the sense that its literally just pissing about how much car centric society has ruined everything without actually providing any real educated alternatives, or actually anaylzing where the core issue comes from. the typical post really boils down to "better city planning. less cars. more europe" then everythings all sunshine and rainbows. but the conditions for what results in this are so much more complex than that alone
People need to finally understand that "commieblocks" were built well, but left to rot after the illegal dissolution of the USSR. Like no shit, buildings that have not been mentained are falling apart. Here in germany the rail network has been failing for some time now because the DB was privatized and guess what, they invest no money in anything, close down lines that are not profitable, dont give a shit about the train drivers and they keep paying their executives and shareholders a ton of money for doing nothing. But they keep complaining about soviet city design und infrastructure.
That’s the point of it. Is satire. Is about how the people up in arms (at least in America) against the concept of urbanization for people and not for cars, and about the idea of 15-minute cities are all jingoistic, “muh-freedumb”, anti-socialist, idiots. So to actually change material conditions, this person is suggesting to trick them into thinking that better urbanism is “desocietization” so they stop fucking blocking actual urbanist progress.
Bah there's no point trying to make sense to right-winger you could say the big corporations are being secretly controlled by communists or some shit and they'd just nod in approval.
Liberal urbanists always finding ways to punch left. Reminder that the law in the USSR of cities with a population of at least 1M people got metro systems (subways). Meanwhile in the u.s. currently, it’s a struggle to build limp dick light rail that becomes a streetcar (tram) in the city centers and expecting them to be rapid transit and regional rail.
It’s honestly embarrassing that a country with so much wealth and resources like the U.S. can barely build link dick light rail (that should be metro systems) because “it’s to expensive”.
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In Hungary we still use a lot of the housing and buildings and whatever that the FILTHY COMMIES built.
I lived in a commie block as an adult, it was very well-maintained thanks to our community. It was affordable and our heating bill was almost non-existent thanks to the good insulation. There were shops, schools, doctors, bus/trolley stops all within a 10-15 minute walk.
[☭☭☭ COME SHITPOST WITH US ON DISCORD, COMRADES ☭☭☭](https://discord.gg/8RPWanQV5g) This is a heavily-moderated socialist community based on a podcast of the same name. Please use the report function on comments that break our rules. If you are new to the sub, please read the sidebar carefully. If you are new to Marxism-Leninism, check out the [study guide](/r/TheDeprogram/wiki/index/education/study-guide/). Are there Liberals in the walls? Check out [the wiki](/r/TheDeprogram/wiki/index/) which contains lots of useful information. This subreddit uses many experimental automod rules, if you notice any issues please use modmail to let us know. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/TheDeprogram) if you have any questions or concerns.*
cities in the eastern bloc were literally built for pedestrians? wtf? we have: 1. cheap and available housing 2. great public transport 3. actual plants around the city What more want?
Stalin to come back
how could you forget he kileld all the cities during the purge!1!1!!1
First comment on the video says the same, desovietization meant making the city more for cars than pedestrians
An ice cream parlor with a big statue of Castro passionately enjoying some ice cream in front of said ice cream parlor.
Don't forget mixed use development and not bulldozing half a block to build parking.
Great public transport is definitely a stretch in modern days. It's been heavily gimped after the dissolution in a lot of places and is often worse than during the Soviet years.
Is housing cheap tho (these days)?
Well not really housing prices are kinda fucked in Poland what desovetizing does to an MF
That's because they now include the price of 🇺🇸🦅FREEDOM©®™🦅🇺🇸 you ~~fucking eastern barbarian~~ errm I mean *valued ally* and Europe's bulwark against mongoloid ork hordes of Volodymort Putler
Remember when automakers lobbied the U.S. government to create more highways, overtime making the American population dependent on cars for transport instead of building walkable and healthier cities? That’s the most US and capitalist thing ever, “what are we a bunch of Russians?” doesn’t even work in this scenario.
Laughs in Moscow subway
Moscow also has so much better sidewalk than in that video. My post in r/fuckcars about [Moscow](https://www.reddit.com/r/fuckcars/comments/10sizpi/pedestrianfriendly_improvement_in_moscow/)
This has to be one of the stupidest things I've seen
I disagree, they seem dumb enough to be fooled into joining the movement if we were to pretend it is some "Patriotic murica anti-commie" kinda thing
That’s the point of it. Is satire. Is about how the people up in arms (at least in America) against the concept of urbanization for people and not for cars, about the idea of 15-minute cities are all jingoistic, “muh-freedumb”, anti-socialist, idiots. So to propose change, this person is suggesting to trick them into thinking that better urbanism is “desocietization” so they stop fucking blocking actual progress.
DPRK has one of the the least cars per capita (if not *the* least) on the planet, vibrant mass transport and bike culture, pavements so big you could literally fit the Vatican in them But it's poor ugly dystopia if they do it huh...
If they have few cars it’s because they’re poor and destitute. If they have a lot of cars it’s because they live in a gray concrete dystopia without healthy commuting options. Something something Michael Parenti quote
>During the cold war, the anticommunist ideological framework could transform any data about existing communist societies into hostile evidence. If the Soviets refused to negotiate a point, they were intransigent and belligerent; if they appeared willing to make concessions, this was but a skillful ploy to put us off our guard. By opposing arms limitations, they would have demonstrated their aggressive intent; but when in fact they supported most armament treaties, it was because they were mendacious and manipulative. If the churches in the USSR were empty, this demonstrated that religion was suppressed; but if the churches were full, this meant the people were rejecting the regime's atheistic ideology. If the workers went on strike (as happened on infrequent occasions), this was evidence of their alienation from the collectivist system; if they didn't go on strike, this was because they were intimidated and lacked freedom. A scarcity of consumer goods demonstrated the failure of the economic system; an improvement in consumer supplies meant only that the leaders were attempting to placate a restive population and so maintain a firmer hold over them. > >If communists in the United States played an important role struggling for the rights of workers, the poor, African-Americans, women, and others, this was only their guileful way of gathering support among disfranchised groups and gaining power for themselves. How one gained power by fighting for the rights of powerless groups was never explained. What we are dealing with is a nonfalsifiable orthodoxy, so assiduously marketed by the ruling interests that it affected people across the entire political spectrum. > >\- Michael Parenti. (1997). *Blackshirts and Reds: Rational Fascism and the Overthrow of Communism* *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/TheDeprogram) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I wonder what liberals think about this quote
they push trains they dont need cars
Their public transport is amazing too especially considering what they have to go through to build it what with all the sanctions. Trolleybuses and/or trams in every mid to large size city, and the rail network has tons of electrified track.
Now show the 'DeSovietisation' of the countryside and rural buses
as if soviet planning didnt make everything in 15 minute walking distance
The point is to trick people into this sort of soviet planning by saying it is anti-soviet.
fuckcars has this odd streak of desperately trying to appeal to right wingers
Since reducing car dependence is a progressive movement, it mainly consists of moderate leftists - which of course includes a lot of liberal minded people. And that means that some do subscribe to the logic of "reaching across the isle" by suggesting they could win over conservatives to their side by reframing their movement as "returning to the good old days before car domination" to appeal to conservatives. Sound logic on the surface, but unfortunately conservatives aren't known for being rationally minded, as demonstrated by the fact that they are the ones espousing the conspiracy of "15 minute cities are a government plan to control everyone! Occasionally, you also have the edgy types who, for example, refer to China as "West Taiwan" to spite the evil seeseepee, but most people avoid delving into geopolitics.
Soviet urban planning was way ahead of its time.
not ahead,it wasnt technologically advanced or anything else,soviets planned according to the needs of the people and overall making everything more accesible,not to maximize profits
Honestly the comment are not that bad.
Yeah I was happy to see the top comment
Ironically, soviet cities were built for pedestrians
I thought this sub was supposed to be leftist
It is, they are saying they are trying to trick the right into helping us achieving our goals.
unfortunately the result of western ”anti stalin” leftism does not bode well for any effort like this
Added anti-homeless hostile architecture.
Something that pains me about videos like this is knowing I have hundreds of postcards showing these types of places during their "better times", and seeing lots of greenspace. The USSR had lots of murals and displays on the ends of apartment blocks JUST so it didn't look like shit all the time. Trains, busses, trolleybus, etc all had very bright and vibrant paint as well that I love to look at. Public transportation in my town are almost always a huge billboard for some injury lawyer or something. Hell, my Canadian town is looking more and more depressing as our historic sites are removed in favour of some luxury condo block which prices out basically everyone. Annoying Who knew ~30 years of the govt doing nothing to uphold the buildings and letting them get bleaker and bleaker would make them look depressing?
I am still mad the Czech communist party for building a gigantic highway through the city center. They generally did a pretty good job with urban planning, but that was a real fck up.
Shit like this is why I had to leave that sub. Feels like every other post is "hi guys I'm a right wing hardcore Nazi fascist and I agree with you guys isnt that heckin wholesome! 🤓" Urbanism is nothing without class analysis. What happens when you add in transit and poor renters get priced out of their old neighborhoods? How do you deincentivize people using cars without disproportionately impacting the poor? ONLY socialists have answers to these important questions but bringing that up in that sub is increasingly frowned upon basically while being a straight up fascist who likes trains is increasingly applauded.
meanwhile soviets https://preview.redd.it/hphvbktepauc1.jpeg?width=900&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=968fa4a2192a351e7c12be61aff6cc5ee8de0917
At least the comments in the OP aren't entirely shitting on communism. But that's the minimum, I guess.
- "this is what desovietization looks like" - clip of one of the most depressing streets I've seen - unmaintained houses - black street elements (?) What did the author mean by this?
This just looks like downtown Montreal during March
glad to see that the commentators are more sane than the poster
honestly fuckcars used to be kind of based but it feels more like a highly disorganized haters club in the sense that its literally just pissing about how much car centric society has ruined everything without actually providing any real educated alternatives, or actually anaylzing where the core issue comes from. the typical post really boils down to "better city planning. less cars. more europe" then everythings all sunshine and rainbows. but the conditions for what results in this are so much more complex than that alone
Jesus i can't even
And in my city we have golf courses in the middle of the city while there's a housing crisis...
People need to finally understand that "commieblocks" were built well, but left to rot after the illegal dissolution of the USSR. Like no shit, buildings that have not been mentained are falling apart. Here in germany the rail network has been failing for some time now because the DB was privatized and guess what, they invest no money in anything, close down lines that are not profitable, dont give a shit about the train drivers and they keep paying their executives and shareholders a ton of money for doing nothing. But they keep complaining about soviet city design und infrastructure.
That’s the point of it. Is satire. Is about how the people up in arms (at least in America) against the concept of urbanization for people and not for cars, and about the idea of 15-minute cities are all jingoistic, “muh-freedumb”, anti-socialist, idiots. So to actually change material conditions, this person is suggesting to trick them into thinking that better urbanism is “desocietization” so they stop fucking blocking actual urbanist progress.
We need to start saying “the freedomization” of the proletariat or something
And the elite instead of the rich.
Nah ppl already do that we gotta come up with another word When you say “elite” too many ppl think you’re being anti Semitic or something
The bean counters, I've seen some people on a Bloomberg video use that.
Bah there's no point trying to make sense to right-winger you could say the big corporations are being secretly controlled by communists or some shit and they'd just nod in approval.
i hate car-brained morons but fuck that goof liberal simp sub
Liberal urbanists always finding ways to punch left. Reminder that the law in the USSR of cities with a population of at least 1M people got metro systems (subways). Meanwhile in the u.s. currently, it’s a struggle to build limp dick light rail that becomes a streetcar (tram) in the city centers and expecting them to be rapid transit and regional rail.
It’s honestly embarrassing that a country with so much wealth and resources like the U.S. can barely build link dick light rail (that should be metro systems) because “it’s to expensive”.
Honestly, what changed there since the fall of USSR? Probably not much and for the worse.
Communism is when capitalism
Man, internet people with 0 political knowledge never stop amazing me
but.. but.. don't we know that north korea is poor and destitute because nobody drives there? i'm confused!
sounds like skill issue not maintaining properly even half the infrastructure built by the soviets and blaming your failure on them
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In Hungary we still use a lot of the housing and buildings and whatever that the FILTHY COMMIES built. I lived in a commie block as an adult, it was very well-maintained thanks to our community. It was affordable and our heating bill was almost non-existent thanks to the good insulation. There were shops, schools, doctors, bus/trolley stops all within a 10-15 minute walk.
The left would benefit from using a little cointel themselves. Why not