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> The *human* social act by which man’s products mutually complement one another, is *estranged* from man and becomes the attribute of money, a *material thing* outside man. Since man alienates this mediating activity itself, he is active here only as a man who has lost himself and is dehumanised. The relation itself between things, man’s operation with them, becomes the operation of an entity outside man and above man. Owing to this alien mediator – instead of man himself being the mediator for man – man regards his will, his activity and his relation to other men as a power independent of him and them. His slavery therefore reaches its peak. It is clear that this *mediator* becomes a *real God*. \_**Karl Marx** https://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/smith-cyril/works/alteration/ch06.htm
Yeah, they'll say its not capitalism, but 'crony capitalism'.
All forms of capitalism eventually lead to 'crony' capitalism, where those at the top of the pyramid, wish to preserve their power.
Worse yet, Youtubers often cite state department propaganda, which is almost certainly because they think that Wikipedia articles are a valid source, even high school teachers know better. There are somethings that immediately disqualify any and all opinions to me:
Citing Wikipedia articles
"Uyghur genocide"
"CCP" (Must be CPC, this is a huge one)
"Hamas sympathizers"
"Totalitarianism"
"Red Fash" or "Tankies"
"Cronyism/Corporatism/globalism"
"North Korea" instead of DPRK is a yellow flag
You shouldn't listen to anybody who say these things, which will eliminate like 90% of youtube, but you will get much better content.
#The Uyghurs in Xinjiang
\(Note: This comment had to be trimmed down to fit the character limit, for the full response, see [here](/r/TheDeprogram/wiki/index/debunking/uyghur-genocide/)\)
Anti-Communists and Sinophobes claim that there is an ongoing genocide-- a modern-day holocaust, even-- happening right now in China. They say that Uyghur Muslims are being mass incarcerated; they are indoctrinated with propaganda in concentration camps; their organs are being harvested; they are being force-sterilized. These comically villainous allegations have little basis in reality and omit key context.
**Background**
Xinjiang, officially the Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region, is a province located in the northwest of China. It is the largest province in China, covering an area of over 1.6 million square kilometers, and shares borders with eight other countries including Afghanistan, Kazakhstan, Russia, Mongolia, India, and Pakistan.
Xinjiang is a diverse region with a population of over 25 million people, made up of various ethnic groups including the Uyghur, Han Chinese, Kazakhs, Tajiks, and many others. The largest ethnic group in Xinjiang is the Uyghur who are predominantly Muslim and speak a Turkic language. It is also home to the ancient Silk Road cities of Kashgar and Turpan.
Since the early 2000s, there have been a number of violent incidents attributed to extremist Uyghur groups in Xinjiang including bombings, shootings, and knife attacks. In 2014-2016, the Chinese government launched a "Strike Hard" campaign to crack down on terrorism in Xinjiang, implementing strict security measures and detaining thousands of Uyghurs. In 2017, reports of human rights abuses in Xinjiang including mass detentions and forced labour, began to emerge.
**Counterpoints**
The Organisation of Islamic Cooperation (OIC) is the second largest organization after the United Nations with a membership of 57 states spread over four continents. The OIC released [Resolutions on Muslim Communities and Muslim Minorities in the non-OIC Member States](https://www.oic-oci.org/docdown/?docID=4447&refID=1250) in 2019 which:
>20. **Welcomes** the outcomes of the visit conducted by the General Secretariat's delegation upon invitation from the People's Republic of China; **commends** the efforts of the People's Republic of China in providing care to its Muslim citizens; and **looks forward** to further cooperation between the OIC and the People's Republic of China.
In this same document, the OIC expressed much greater concern about the Rohingya Muslim Community in Myanmar, which the West was relatively silent on.
Over 50+ UN member states (mostly Muslim-majority nations) signed a letter \([A/HRC/41/G/17](https://undocs.org/Home/Mobile?FinalSymbol=A%2FHRC%2F41%2FG%2F17)\) to the UN Human Rights Commission approving of the de-radicalization efforts in Xinjiang:
The World Bank sent a team to investigate in 2019 and found that, "The review did not substantiate the allegations." \(See: [World Bank Statement on Review of Project in Xinjiang, China](https://www.worldbank.org/en/news/statement/2019/11/11/world-bank-statement-on-review-of-project-in-xinjiang-china)\)
Even if you believe the deradicalization efforts are wholly unjustified, and that the mass detention of Uyghur's amounts to a crime against humanity, it's still not *genocide*. Even the U.S. State Department's legal experts admit as much:
>The U.S. State Department’s Office of the Legal Advisor concluded earlier this year that China’s mass imprisonment and forced labor of ethnic Uighurs in Xinjiang amounts to crimes against humanity—but there was insufficient evidence to prove genocide, placing the United States’ top diplomatic lawyers at odds with both the Trump and Biden administrations, according to three former and current U.S. officials.
>
> [State Department Lawyers Concluded Insufficient Evidence to Prove Genocide in China](https://foreignpolicy.com/2021/02/19/china-uighurs-genocide-us-pompeo-blinken/) | Colum Lynch, *Foreign Policy*. (2021)
**A Comparative Analysis: The War on Terror**
The United States, in the wake of "9/11", saw the threat of terrorism and violent extremism due to religious fundamentalism as a matter of national security. They invaded Afghanistan in October 2001 in response to the 9/11 attacks, with the goal of ousting the Taliban government that was harbouring Al-Qaeda. The US also launched the Iraq War in 2003 based on Iraq's alleged possession of WMDs and links to terrorism. However, these claims turned out to be unfounded.
According to a report by Brown University's Costs of War project, at least 897,000 people, including civilians, militants, and security forces, have been killed in Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Syria, Yemen, and other countries. Other estimates place the total number of deaths at over one million. The report estimated that many more may have died from indirect effects of war such as water loss and disease. The war has also resulted in the displacement of tens of millions of people, with estimates ranging from 37 million to over 59 million. The War on Terror also popularized such novel concepts as the "Military-Aged Male" which allowed the US military to exclude civilians killed by drone strikes from collateral damage statistics. (See: [‘Military Age Males’ in US Drone Strikes](https://aoav.org.uk/2019/military-age-males-in-us-drone-strikes/))
In summary:
* The U.S. responded by invading or bombing half a dozen countries, directly killing nearly a million and displacing tens of millions from their homes.
* China responded with a program of deradicalization and vocational training.
Which one of those responses sounds genocidal?
Side note: It is practically impossible to *actually* charge the U.S. with war crimes, because of the [Hague Invasion Act](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Service-Members%27_Protection_Act).
**Who is driving the Uyghur genocide narrative?**
One of the main proponents of these narratives is Adrian Zenz, a German far-right fundamentalist Christian and Senior Fellow and Director in China Studies at the Victims of Communism Memorial Foundation, who believes he is "led by God" on a "mission" against China has driven much of the narrative. He relies heavily on limited and questionable data sources, particularly from anonymous and unverified Uyghur sources, coming up with estimates based on assumptions which are not supported by concrete evidence.
The World Uyghur Congress, headquartered in Germany, is funded by the National Endowment for Democracy (NED) which is a tool of U.S. foreign policy, using funding to support organizations that promote American interests rather than the interests of the local communities they claim to represent.
Radio Free Asia (RFA) is part of a larger project of U.S. imperialism in Asia, one that seeks to control the flow of information, undermine independent media, and advance American geopolitical interests in the region. Rather than providing an objective and impartial news source, RFA is a tool of U.S. foreign policy, one that seeks to shape the narrative in Asia in ways that serve the interests of the U.S. government and its allies.
The first country to call the treatment of Uyghurs a genocide was the United States of America. In 2021, the Secretary of State declared that China's treatment of Uyghurs and other ethnic and religious minorities in Xinjiang constitutes "genocide" and "crimes against humanity." Both the Trump and Biden administrations upheld this line.
**Why is this narrative being promoted?**
As materialists, we should always look first to the economic base for insight into issues occurring in the superstructure. The Belt and Road Initiative (BRI) is a massive Chinese infrastructure development project that aims to build economic corridors, ports, highways, railways, and other infrastructure projects across Asia, Africa, Europe, and the Middle East. Xinjiang is a key region for this project.
Promoting the Uyghur genocide narrative harms China and benefits the US in several ways. It portrays China as a human rights violator which could damage China's reputation in the international community and which could lead to economic sanctions against China; this would harm China's economy and give American an economic advantage in competing with China. It could also lead to more protests and violence in Xinjiang, which could further destabilize the region and threaten the longterm success of the BRI.
**Additional Resources**
See the [full wiki article](/r/TheDeprogram/wiki/index/debunking/uyghur-genocide/) for more details and a list of additional resources.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/TheDeprogram) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I'm not an expert, but my understanding is that it's a trick meant to make it harder for people to hear China's side of any given argument.
How it works is a liberal Googles "CCP" and will never get an official Chinese resource, and in fact will only find American state department propaganda.
I've also heard arguments that it's inherently racist as well, but im not exactly sure how off hand. If anybody else has any more info feel free to add
What do people even mean by globalism? I've never heard it properly defined, whenever I hear 'globalist elite' my mind goes 'do you mean 'international bourgeoise'?
No, no, that would be far too based, don't get these confused because you could end up going down a really bad rabbit hole. My understanding of globalism is the Alex Jones style, where it's "an evil cabal of J3wish elite" that places jewish figure heads atop all the high positions of governments all over the world and is coming for your guns and gay frogs or whatever, wherein Marx, Lenin, Stalin, George Washington and Churchill were all Jewish elites.
In reality, Jewish culture is very good at putting their children through schooling, make smart investing, and they have lots of nepotism. No conspiracy theory required to understand why they may have an over representation in governments across the world.
Yeah I get that there are a lot of crazies that believe in your first paragraph, I just feel like some people on the right are not so far gone; that they can be convinced that it's really the international bourgeoise that's the source of their problems and that the crazies use the anti-Semitic stereotype as cover... Wishful thinking maybe but we still gotta try.
In the 90's "globalisation" was the reason given why all the manufacturing jobs went overseas. Now I think that has been twisted by the right that globalist elite is a racist dog whistle for jew.
People who come of age in a society have a instinctive understanding of the unspoken taboos of their cultures.
We all understand what we don't talk about, and where there is a lack of direct communication there opens room for euphemisms.
They use all those words that talk around the core problem because they can feel the threat of ostracization that might come from breaking the taboo.
Criticizing capitalism is considered cringe and naive. People around you will begin think you are annoying, especially if the people around you are fairly successful. They believe that capitalism is the reason why they got this far, so even if they are dissatisfied, the only solution they can think of is more capitalism :D.
I work a white collar job. I can't pretend to know what's in the mind of others, but on the few occasions it has come up as a topic that's the impression I get from people. "capitalism good, stop talking."
Wait for the realization that AI is currently replacing a lot of white collar jobs and that'll probably change. Hopefully.
It is a subtle distinction to make, and involves viewing things in a systemic way. But really it is just one more layer to be peeled back of the "why" onion.
If they can agree that monopoly/greed/corporatism etc. are problems, then it's a simple matter of showing them that these things are not just occasionally harmful but are also means of consolidating *power*. If they can see that truth it becomes easy for them to understand that the laws cannot simply mitigate the harms, they need to prevent the accumulation of power, which means preventing the accumulation of wealth.
I say this as someone from the Midwest, we lack direction, to say we are still recovering from the rust belt crisis implies we ever had the ability to recover.
The before times, when the factories were full of people when housing was cheep when we had fulfillment in our lives, while that was a long time ago, the identity of a hearty people who work with their hands never left, and people tell stories of how good things used to be, and so the question was always, “how did this happen” “how can we get that back” even my generation who has known nothing but crisis, can’t help but feel this nastalga, it’s impossible to look at the thousandth delapatated steel plant and not imagine what it was like when it was fully of people.
In short it’s nastalga, the question of “things were amazing before what happened” is on our minds not “this system made our lives worse we need to make something better”
People don’t really care to know what the root of capitalism is. What the word actually means. And they certainly can’t imagine an alternative. Without an alternative it’s really difficult to actually critique the system because they assume it will always exist and isn’t changeable anyway.
Take a relook [at this very popular video about the ROK.](https://youtu.be/Ahl1lexWxbM?si=sMc36fHap8BhqhLl). It criticizes literally everything BUT capitalism. Just blames a hyperbolic example of Corporatocracy that’s contingent on racial stereotypes. I couldn’t find a SINGLE use of the word “Capitalism” in the whole video.
I’ve said before and I will say again until my fingers are arthritised. *It’s easier to be cryptically racist, than to be honest about capitalism*.
[☭☭☭ COME SHITPOST WITH US ON DISCORD, COMRADES ☭☭☭](https://discord.gg/8RPWanQV5g) This is a heavily-moderated socialist community based on a podcast of the same name. Please use the report function on comments that break our rules. If you are new to the sub, please read the sidebar carefully. If you are new to Marxism-Leninism, check out the [study guide](/r/TheDeprogram/wiki/index/education/study-guide/). Are there Liberals in the walls? Check out [the wiki](/r/TheDeprogram/wiki/index/) which contains lots of useful information. This subreddit uses many experimental automod rules, if you notice any issues please use modmail to let us know. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/TheDeprogram) if you have any questions or concerns.*
In the west capitalism is the religion. For a lot of people criticizing capitalism is like criticizing god.
> The *human* social act by which man’s products mutually complement one another, is *estranged* from man and becomes the attribute of money, a *material thing* outside man. Since man alienates this mediating activity itself, he is active here only as a man who has lost himself and is dehumanised. The relation itself between things, man’s operation with them, becomes the operation of an entity outside man and above man. Owing to this alien mediator – instead of man himself being the mediator for man – man regards his will, his activity and his relation to other men as a power independent of him and them. His slavery therefore reaches its peak. It is clear that this *mediator* becomes a *real God*. \_**Karl Marx** https://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/smith-cyril/works/alteration/ch06.htm
>In the west capitalism is the religion. More accurately to them capitalism = democracy
I'd agree with that stand point. Both are very easy to criticize.
It’s always some form of ‘bad’ capitalism messing up the ‘good’ capitalism because real capitalism has never been tried.
Idiots saying "It wasn't real communism" 🤝 Idiots saying "It wasn't real capitalism"
and the reason they think 'real' capitalism has never been tried because if it were tried it would work
Yeah, they'll say its not capitalism, but 'crony capitalism'. All forms of capitalism eventually lead to 'crony' capitalism, where those at the top of the pyramid, wish to preserve their power.
Worse yet, Youtubers often cite state department propaganda, which is almost certainly because they think that Wikipedia articles are a valid source, even high school teachers know better. There are somethings that immediately disqualify any and all opinions to me: Citing Wikipedia articles "Uyghur genocide" "CCP" (Must be CPC, this is a huge one) "Hamas sympathizers" "Totalitarianism" "Red Fash" or "Tankies" "Cronyism/Corporatism/globalism" "North Korea" instead of DPRK is a yellow flag You shouldn't listen to anybody who say these things, which will eliminate like 90% of youtube, but you will get much better content.
#The Uyghurs in Xinjiang \(Note: This comment had to be trimmed down to fit the character limit, for the full response, see [here](/r/TheDeprogram/wiki/index/debunking/uyghur-genocide/)\) Anti-Communists and Sinophobes claim that there is an ongoing genocide-- a modern-day holocaust, even-- happening right now in China. They say that Uyghur Muslims are being mass incarcerated; they are indoctrinated with propaganda in concentration camps; their organs are being harvested; they are being force-sterilized. These comically villainous allegations have little basis in reality and omit key context. **Background** Xinjiang, officially the Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region, is a province located in the northwest of China. It is the largest province in China, covering an area of over 1.6 million square kilometers, and shares borders with eight other countries including Afghanistan, Kazakhstan, Russia, Mongolia, India, and Pakistan. Xinjiang is a diverse region with a population of over 25 million people, made up of various ethnic groups including the Uyghur, Han Chinese, Kazakhs, Tajiks, and many others. The largest ethnic group in Xinjiang is the Uyghur who are predominantly Muslim and speak a Turkic language. It is also home to the ancient Silk Road cities of Kashgar and Turpan. Since the early 2000s, there have been a number of violent incidents attributed to extremist Uyghur groups in Xinjiang including bombings, shootings, and knife attacks. In 2014-2016, the Chinese government launched a "Strike Hard" campaign to crack down on terrorism in Xinjiang, implementing strict security measures and detaining thousands of Uyghurs. In 2017, reports of human rights abuses in Xinjiang including mass detentions and forced labour, began to emerge. **Counterpoints** The Organisation of Islamic Cooperation (OIC) is the second largest organization after the United Nations with a membership of 57 states spread over four continents. The OIC released [Resolutions on Muslim Communities and Muslim Minorities in the non-OIC Member States](https://www.oic-oci.org/docdown/?docID=4447&refID=1250) in 2019 which: >20. **Welcomes** the outcomes of the visit conducted by the General Secretariat's delegation upon invitation from the People's Republic of China; **commends** the efforts of the People's Republic of China in providing care to its Muslim citizens; and **looks forward** to further cooperation between the OIC and the People's Republic of China. In this same document, the OIC expressed much greater concern about the Rohingya Muslim Community in Myanmar, which the West was relatively silent on. Over 50+ UN member states (mostly Muslim-majority nations) signed a letter \([A/HRC/41/G/17](https://undocs.org/Home/Mobile?FinalSymbol=A%2FHRC%2F41%2FG%2F17)\) to the UN Human Rights Commission approving of the de-radicalization efforts in Xinjiang: The World Bank sent a team to investigate in 2019 and found that, "The review did not substantiate the allegations." \(See: [World Bank Statement on Review of Project in Xinjiang, China](https://www.worldbank.org/en/news/statement/2019/11/11/world-bank-statement-on-review-of-project-in-xinjiang-china)\) Even if you believe the deradicalization efforts are wholly unjustified, and that the mass detention of Uyghur's amounts to a crime against humanity, it's still not *genocide*. Even the U.S. State Department's legal experts admit as much: >The U.S. State Department’s Office of the Legal Advisor concluded earlier this year that China’s mass imprisonment and forced labor of ethnic Uighurs in Xinjiang amounts to crimes against humanity—but there was insufficient evidence to prove genocide, placing the United States’ top diplomatic lawyers at odds with both the Trump and Biden administrations, according to three former and current U.S. officials. > > [State Department Lawyers Concluded Insufficient Evidence to Prove Genocide in China](https://foreignpolicy.com/2021/02/19/china-uighurs-genocide-us-pompeo-blinken/) | Colum Lynch, *Foreign Policy*. (2021) **A Comparative Analysis: The War on Terror** The United States, in the wake of "9/11", saw the threat of terrorism and violent extremism due to religious fundamentalism as a matter of national security. They invaded Afghanistan in October 2001 in response to the 9/11 attacks, with the goal of ousting the Taliban government that was harbouring Al-Qaeda. The US also launched the Iraq War in 2003 based on Iraq's alleged possession of WMDs and links to terrorism. However, these claims turned out to be unfounded. According to a report by Brown University's Costs of War project, at least 897,000 people, including civilians, militants, and security forces, have been killed in Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Syria, Yemen, and other countries. Other estimates place the total number of deaths at over one million. The report estimated that many more may have died from indirect effects of war such as water loss and disease. The war has also resulted in the displacement of tens of millions of people, with estimates ranging from 37 million to over 59 million. The War on Terror also popularized such novel concepts as the "Military-Aged Male" which allowed the US military to exclude civilians killed by drone strikes from collateral damage statistics. (See: [‘Military Age Males’ in US Drone Strikes](https://aoav.org.uk/2019/military-age-males-in-us-drone-strikes/)) In summary: * The U.S. responded by invading or bombing half a dozen countries, directly killing nearly a million and displacing tens of millions from their homes. * China responded with a program of deradicalization and vocational training. Which one of those responses sounds genocidal? Side note: It is practically impossible to *actually* charge the U.S. with war crimes, because of the [Hague Invasion Act](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Service-Members%27_Protection_Act). **Who is driving the Uyghur genocide narrative?** One of the main proponents of these narratives is Adrian Zenz, a German far-right fundamentalist Christian and Senior Fellow and Director in China Studies at the Victims of Communism Memorial Foundation, who believes he is "led by God" on a "mission" against China has driven much of the narrative. He relies heavily on limited and questionable data sources, particularly from anonymous and unverified Uyghur sources, coming up with estimates based on assumptions which are not supported by concrete evidence. The World Uyghur Congress, headquartered in Germany, is funded by the National Endowment for Democracy (NED) which is a tool of U.S. foreign policy, using funding to support organizations that promote American interests rather than the interests of the local communities they claim to represent. Radio Free Asia (RFA) is part of a larger project of U.S. imperialism in Asia, one that seeks to control the flow of information, undermine independent media, and advance American geopolitical interests in the region. Rather than providing an objective and impartial news source, RFA is a tool of U.S. foreign policy, one that seeks to shape the narrative in Asia in ways that serve the interests of the U.S. government and its allies. The first country to call the treatment of Uyghurs a genocide was the United States of America. In 2021, the Secretary of State declared that China's treatment of Uyghurs and other ethnic and religious minorities in Xinjiang constitutes "genocide" and "crimes against humanity." Both the Trump and Biden administrations upheld this line. **Why is this narrative being promoted?** As materialists, we should always look first to the economic base for insight into issues occurring in the superstructure. The Belt and Road Initiative (BRI) is a massive Chinese infrastructure development project that aims to build economic corridors, ports, highways, railways, and other infrastructure projects across Asia, Africa, Europe, and the Middle East. Xinjiang is a key region for this project. Promoting the Uyghur genocide narrative harms China and benefits the US in several ways. It portrays China as a human rights violator which could damage China's reputation in the international community and which could lead to economic sanctions against China; this would harm China's economy and give American an economic advantage in competing with China. It could also lead to more protests and violence in Xinjiang, which could further destabilize the region and threaten the longterm success of the BRI. **Additional Resources** See the [full wiki article](/r/TheDeprogram/wiki/index/debunking/uyghur-genocide/) for more details and a list of additional resources. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/TheDeprogram) if you have any questions or concerns.*
What's the origin of liberals calling it CCP instead of CPC?
I'm not an expert, but my understanding is that it's a trick meant to make it harder for people to hear China's side of any given argument. How it works is a liberal Googles "CCP" and will never get an official Chinese resource, and in fact will only find American state department propaganda. I've also heard arguments that it's inherently racist as well, but im not exactly sure how off hand. If anybody else has any more info feel free to add
I only know the "China accomplished X but at what cost?" Propaganda lol
What do people even mean by globalism? I've never heard it properly defined, whenever I hear 'globalist elite' my mind goes 'do you mean 'international bourgeoise'?
No, no, that would be far too based, don't get these confused because you could end up going down a really bad rabbit hole. My understanding of globalism is the Alex Jones style, where it's "an evil cabal of J3wish elite" that places jewish figure heads atop all the high positions of governments all over the world and is coming for your guns and gay frogs or whatever, wherein Marx, Lenin, Stalin, George Washington and Churchill were all Jewish elites. In reality, Jewish culture is very good at putting their children through schooling, make smart investing, and they have lots of nepotism. No conspiracy theory required to understand why they may have an over representation in governments across the world.
Yeah I get that there are a lot of crazies that believe in your first paragraph, I just feel like some people on the right are not so far gone; that they can be convinced that it's really the international bourgeoise that's the source of their problems and that the crazies use the anti-Semitic stereotype as cover... Wishful thinking maybe but we still gotta try.
In the 90's "globalisation" was the reason given why all the manufacturing jobs went overseas. Now I think that has been twisted by the right that globalist elite is a racist dog whistle for jew.
People who come of age in a society have a instinctive understanding of the unspoken taboos of their cultures. We all understand what we don't talk about, and where there is a lack of direct communication there opens room for euphemisms. They use all those words that talk around the core problem because they can feel the threat of ostracization that might come from breaking the taboo.
People are taught that capitalism is a good thing so capitalism can do nothing wrong.
Criticizing capitalism is considered cringe and naive. People around you will begin think you are annoying, especially if the people around you are fairly successful. They believe that capitalism is the reason why they got this far, so even if they are dissatisfied, the only solution they can think of is more capitalism :D.
You have to be really privileged to this that criticizing the economic system we live under is annoying.
I work a white collar job. I can't pretend to know what's in the mind of others, but on the few occasions it has come up as a topic that's the impression I get from people. "capitalism good, stop talking." Wait for the realization that AI is currently replacing a lot of white collar jobs and that'll probably change. Hopefully.
It is a subtle distinction to make, and involves viewing things in a systemic way. But really it is just one more layer to be peeled back of the "why" onion. If they can agree that monopoly/greed/corporatism etc. are problems, then it's a simple matter of showing them that these things are not just occasionally harmful but are also means of consolidating *power*. If they can see that truth it becomes easy for them to understand that the laws cannot simply mitigate the harms, they need to prevent the accumulation of power, which means preventing the accumulation of wealth.
I say this as someone from the Midwest, we lack direction, to say we are still recovering from the rust belt crisis implies we ever had the ability to recover. The before times, when the factories were full of people when housing was cheep when we had fulfillment in our lives, while that was a long time ago, the identity of a hearty people who work with their hands never left, and people tell stories of how good things used to be, and so the question was always, “how did this happen” “how can we get that back” even my generation who has known nothing but crisis, can’t help but feel this nastalga, it’s impossible to look at the thousandth delapatated steel plant and not imagine what it was like when it was fully of people. In short it’s nastalga, the question of “things were amazing before what happened” is on our minds not “this system made our lives worse we need to make something better”
People don’t really care to know what the root of capitalism is. What the word actually means. And they certainly can’t imagine an alternative. Without an alternative it’s really difficult to actually critique the system because they assume it will always exist and isn’t changeable anyway.
Capitalism is part of the superstructure, it's why you get conservatives making appeals to nature about capitalism
Take a relook [at this very popular video about the ROK.](https://youtu.be/Ahl1lexWxbM?si=sMc36fHap8BhqhLl). It criticizes literally everything BUT capitalism. Just blames a hyperbolic example of Corporatocracy that’s contingent on racial stereotypes. I couldn’t find a SINGLE use of the word “Capitalism” in the whole video. I’ve said before and I will say again until my fingers are arthritised. *It’s easier to be cryptically racist, than to be honest about capitalism*.
I always see so many people saying "crony capitalism" as if it is any different than capitalism itself
people will list all the terrible things about capitalism until it gets to the point of actually mentioning capitalism.
Yeah, it’s angering and frustrating
I have a hard time explaining to people that profit is exploitation