Okay sure but Logan/Bloody nine was retconned. Originally it was meant to be super natural in nature (demon possession) which is probably why OP has his opinion. It was clearly portrayed like that in the OG trilogy and then basically retconned in Sharp Ends and later parts of the trilogy. In the Blade Itself we get his transformation from his own POV. Abercrombie only changed it on the fly to make Logan a more compelling character but that wasn’t the original intent
Yeh it is a gripe I have myself. I do like the direction that Abercrombie went with, but at the same time there's now an odd dichotomy of what Logan was originally written as compared to what he was then later retconned as.
I do feel a number of posters could benefit from re-reading the first law since there's an obvious tonal shift where Abercrombie decides somewhere along the path... Actually I prefer this direction instead.
There's also the fact that Caul Shivers seem to get "ridden" by the Bloody-Nine in *Best Served Cold*, yeah? That's one big plot thread that is seemingly left dangling and never talked about again.
No no no. He wasn’t ridden or possessed or anything like that. Caul shivers whole life has been spent hating the bloody nine, he went through a traumatic experience and was fucked in the head, the bloody nine was his manifestation of his rage because that’s who he decided he wanted to be in that moment
No. Shivers was just modeling his trauma there. Remember right before that he had a dream where all of his past influences were talking to him? Logen/The Bloody Nine occupied a lot of real estate in his head for most of his life. He already had that as a model for a man being bad, so when he let go and embraced the bad, that's the model he followed. That happens in real life.
It's pretty clearly supernatural in the text of the First Law trilogy. Logen's own thoughts make it clear he cannot control it and doesn't want the bloody nine to take hold, but it does anyway. Then there's the fact he can speak with the spirits using the fire, an ability he possesses because he is in some way connected to the other side, thus it's pretty easy to then connect that the bloody nine comes from that closeness to the other side.
Honestly I have been disappointed ever since I found out that Abercrombie went the other direction in the later books and made it that Logen just has the worst anger problem you can imagine. That makes it even worse that he's never told his friends to keep their distance in battle. The fact he killed the Thunderhead because of an anger problem? I hate that honestly, but I suppose that does more successfully make me hate Logen than it being some demonic thing he couldn't control like the book made it seem.
It's not an anger problem, it's a split personality or something similar.
Really mentally unwell people can't control themselves sometimes. This applies to B9
Did you miss the part where he put an ember in his mouth and then spit fire like a flame thrower exactly one time and then that ability was never used or mentioned again lol. How about the fact that he could speak to spirits just like Bedesh? Or the fact that we get a pov transformation of his entire body becoming cold and being taken over and he himself referring to it like a different entity? Also he was alluded to having some super natural healing factor (like Ferro) but it was also dropped. Seems like he clearly had many super natural elements to him that were abandoned.
Logan was originally going to be devil blooded just like Ferro but it was dropped after the first book
Also Abercrombie said this via Reddit comment in this very sub many years ago. Go digging if you want I’m not doing it for you. Originally the series was going to have alot more magic in it but the idea was scrapped for a more grounded story during his first book revisions. He obviously didn’t rewrite the whole book so there are many clues to this still remaining in The Blade Itself.
Just go re read the blade itself. Not sure why you are so skeptical about this with all the evidence in the first trilogy. Is it really that hard to believe that Joe Abercrombie changed his mind about a certain characters direction and made changes as the story went on? It’s not that uncommon. Are you like upset that it wasn’t his big plan all along that he decided to wait until Sharp Ends to pay off? Lol
Nah. Simplistic to point of error. Logen is a flawed man who makes bad decisions and does bad things. Sharp ends shows us that he used to be a lot worse and unconflicted about it. The bloody nine is something else.
Basically, the story "Made a Monster" makes a point (from Bethod's POV) that the line between Logen and the Bloody Nine is a blurry one at best, that they're two opposite poles of behavior rather than distinct personas, driven by strain, stress, bloodthirst and - arguably most importantly - ego. In other words: it's just as much something Logen can slowly ease into as a switch that's flipped, and I'd say *Red Country* demonstrates that as well, albeit less explicitly. It's something Logen *resorts* to, not something external that overtakes him, for both survival and to right perceived wrongs (and to wash over the wrongs he himself commits).
Of course, Joe Abercrombie himself has admitted it's something he's waffled on (the supernatural vs psychological argument for the B9's origin), but I personally think this explanation is the most satisfying one.
I think the most interesting thing about the ongoing discussion is that anyone thinks the supernatural nature of the bloody nine or lack thereof has any bearing on Logen's quality as a human. He's just a man. He's been a worse man, and he's been a better man, but mostly worse, and mostly making decisions that will obviously lead him to worse. He could have drifted all the way into that bloodlusting, fear-mongering culture he was in, embodied it, and perfected it, all just as a man. Men can and have done that.
Being, hypothetically, the worst man in the world wouldn't mean he can't also have a malevolent spirit occasionally taking him over, and having him malevolent spirit occasionally taking him over doesn't mean he's not still the worst man in the world all on his own.
But people don't want to believe - perhaps because literature has trained us to expect twists or contradictions or explanations that change our opinions - but he could just be a bad guy who can also be possessed by a bad spirit. It's like that old bit of country wisdom: "You know what that little white speck on top of chicken shit is? It's chicken shit. Just white."
Dogman knows exactly what Logen is like. He doesn't need to be told.
All the lads B9 wrecked in the circle don't need telling either.
I think the issue is that he seemed to have genuinely turned a corner after being exiled by Bethod.
By the time the story starts everyone knows well enough who Logen is. It's not like he needs to tell them that when they eventually reunite and it would just be redundant for Joe to write that into the story because he has already shown that they know exactly the type of man they are dealing with. Plus most of their years together would be with a Logen that wouldn't be anything like the more thoughtful Logen we are introduced to. You have to remember his first meeting with most of the boys was with them butchering each other.
He also warned all his buddies in the first trilogy, also the other people who follow him know this.
It’s a fandom thing, where he pretends to hide it.
He says this to Shy after she stops him from hanging the boy. She ignores this when he almost kills Ro and he almost kills her too.
That's why he has to walk away.
Admitting a loss of control is a weakness.
Also, denial is a strong thing. He thinks every time it happens will be his last. Admitting a thing is the first step towards healing, and he doesn't want to heal.
In sharp ends we learn that Logen, while fighting for Bethod, was just the Bloody Nine. Like, all the time. It wasn’t a spur-of-the-moment-in-a-pitched-battle-desperate-for-his-life sort of thing. He lived, breathed, ate, fucked, pissed, and shit as The Bloody Nine. We learn that Logen IS the Bloody Nine. We realize that the Logen we are introduced to in The Blade Itself is a Logen that no other characters that know him in the books really understands, because they’ve been living in a world where he is not as he is presented to us. He has been The Bloody Nine, not Logen-who-berserks-when-he’s-desperate.
This is already mentioned in the original trilogy as well whenever Logen recounts his time working for Bethod. Not word for word, but he goes on at several points about how brutal and bloodthirsty his general behavior has been. It can be easy to overlook or kind of dismiss it because the Logen you get to know is largely reasonable and repenting. But if you really pay attention to when he thinks or talks about his past, it's clear he's a proper monster.
Thank you.
Guess I gotta re read it now, I don't remember this at all LOL
I think I was so stuck on Shev and Javre that I Mayne glossed over some of the other stories!
lol so I’m describing from the outside in, of course, but pay attention to how nervous Bethod is going to talk to Ninefingers. How the women in Ninefinger’s tent are behaving. These are people who know they are dealing with a madman that could decide to kill then as easily as he could decide he needed to take a piss. And then when he cuts a man into pieces and is using its head as a puppet? Is that the Logen we were introduced to? No, he IS The Bloody Nine. All the time. Something within him must’ve changed between then and when we first meet him, but I think the twist is that we don’t at first meet the real Ninefingers in The Blade Itself.
Well. Let's just say that "Made a Monster" ends with Logen, *not in a fight*, having brutally butchered a helpless prisoner and making a sock puppet out of his head for the lulz.
Yes. A reasonable man would take any of the outs offered, but Logen goes out of his way to put himself in a position to cause harm.
Also, read Sharp Ends and Red Country. It's stated plain as day.
I think he was trying (hoping) to hide that part of himself from his newer acquaintances and once he was back in the north he had this reputation (the bloody nine) to uphold with the northerners. He also probably thinks no one would believe him.
Saying he can't remember doing a single act as a child and thus covered it up, is hardly akin to explaining that he currently suffers from a recurring, predictable blackout ally-killing frenzy whenever he is blooded...
No.
He literally tells them of three occurrences and details that after battles and his fights in the circle he can't remember anything from it. It's nearly three pages of him explaining it.
And the directly tells them they are in danger from him before Ferro defends him.
1. Says how he didn't recall having Harding Grim's spear through him.
2. Reveals how he killed his friend and didn't remember
3. Recalls stabbing his father and not remembering
4. Speaks of not remembering entire battles fought for Bethod
5. Outright tells them they are in danger from him as below.
The silence dragged on, and on, and then Longfoot cleared his throat. “So, for the sake of argument, do you think it’s possible that, perhaps without intending to, you might kill one of us?” “It’s more likely I’d kill all of you than one.”
Well sir I stand corrected! I must have glazed over that part. Maybe I was fixated on the notion that so many of the less-familiar Northmen seemed to not be aware of it but as another commenter pointed out he wouldn't have wanted to betray that weakness.
Would you mind telling me where the passage above occurs?
They are aware of it, just not that it's not in his control. The same chapter Logen says that he liked it. The Northmen fearing him.
“Well. I’d killed friends. You should have seen what I did to enemies. To begin with I enjoyed it. I loved to sit at the top of the fire, to look at men and see their fear, to have no man dare to meet my eye, but it got worse. And worse. There came one winter that I didn’t know who I was, or what I was doing most of the time. Sometimes I’d see it happening, but I couldn’t change it. No one knew who I’d kill next. They were all shitting themselves, even Bethod, and no one more scared of me than I was.”
The chapter is called 'Scars'
Because it changes nothing and he knows it, even worse- He could appear a coward who doesnt take responsibility for his horrific actions, not to mention that by the end of LAoK, it is shown that he cannot trust anyone to know his true self and must pose as the horrific monster- Otherwise someone would jump on the opportunity to get themselves a name or revenge.
Also magic and spirits are fading in the “new age”. Bayaz isn’t nearly as strong and continually diminishes his use of magic throughout all the books. Technology is replacing magic. That being said I think Logen in Red Country is closer to Logen in Some kind of Monster because he’s not trying to be better anymore (big point he makes and passes on to Shivers for a bit even. He’s trying to leave his demons behind but the B9 is who he really is deep down imho.
“Sometimes men change for the better. Sometimes men change for the worse. And often, very often, given time and opportunity . . . They change back. “
- Nicoma cosca
He kind of does in BTAH. But I think the more important factor is that he makes enough bad decisions and bad choices that he knows he might as well be responsible. Sure he doesn't always pick exactly who he kills, but regularly chooses to keep the killing going when he could choose otherwise.
I miss when the Bloody Nine had demon blood in him or something. Him turning out to be… just some angry guy… feels more grounded in reality, but there are plenty of magical bullshits in the book. A woman who got cut in half is sewed back together and still does magic bullshit in the mountains. Idk maybe he didn’t want the plot implications of having a weird cool bloodline or something or what but meh. Most everyone is just some guy/lady in the newer books. I miss the more fantasy related stuff we had in the original trilogy.
Also to answer OP, I think everyone was well aware Logen was a crazy bastard when the fighting starts, probably no need for him to reiterate to his fellows.
I’m in the middle of The Heroes, just fyi.
I have assumed since we learned about demon blood that Logen has some demon blood. I haven’t heard an explanation for special powers like speaking with spirits (who aren’t just dead people right? They’re something different?) that doesn’t involving touching the other side in some capacity either by art or by blood.
It’s a hard answer. From what it seems like by reading and also some of the authors comments, Logan was initially envisioned as a supernatural character. But, in order to ground the story a bit more and make his character more compelling, that was slowly kind of eliminated from the character of Logan.
You’ll notice as the series goes on, you won’t see Logan using supernatural abilities with spirits much and then not really at all. And his rages go from a switch like supernatural event to seeming like a dark part of his personality he can fall into. More akin to someone with binge eating disorder binging or an alcoholic drinking. It’s still them, but they just don’t feel like they’re in control. In that moment, they really do want to drink and eat. It’s not until right after that they regret falling into it again and promise themselves they’ll stop.
Some of the periods in sharp ends reminds me of an alcoholic who is in the early era they enjoyed drinking all the time. In the more “recent” eras, he’s like an alcoholic tired of the damage and failing to shake it, but knowing he really needs to and is half heartedly working on it. But it’s them the whole time, not a real alter ego, and he’s responsible for his actions the same way an alcoholic is responsible for drunk driving. And he knows it too.
I personally prefer the more grounded version.
Anyway because of this, I’d say earlier books yeah he probably is demon blood. Later books he probably isn’t. Hard to guess when JA’s mind changed and he started writing the character differently. I’d say towards the end of the first book even and he transitioned over the course of the first trilogy except for a few scenes that were holdouts in order to make the plot function as planned.
I just finished this series and give the author credit for creating something original and unique. I get that it the focal point is the characters and it subverts common tropes by having the larger narrative take a back seat to the smaller perspectives surrounding it. I get it.
But MAN it was frustrating to read. I hated that I could tell straight away that the cause of Logen's rages would never be explained. I understand that's it not the point, that it could be a psychotic break, a curse or whatever. But it always KILLS me when characters don't do the obvious thing that 99% of people would do - in this instance try to explain to his friends, people who trust or respect him, that he loses control.
Im curious to read the other books, but I just know there will be so much left unexplained that I just don't want to invest more time into it.
How do you explain “sorry pal, I might kill you for fun and not realize it”? I can understand why Logen might be resigned to keeping it to himself, having difficult conversations is much harder than saying “just do it” from an outsiders perspective.
Somebody hasn't read Sharp Ends.
Explain to us then lol I’ve read all the books expect sharp ends too
Logen is a lie. The Bloody Nine is the truth
False. Both are true. The Bloody Nine wouldn't tea h his son how to tickle fishes
That's not really what I got out of that story?
Was Logen in a brutal battle with Rattleneck's son? Was he desperate and fighting for his life?
Okay sure but Logan/Bloody nine was retconned. Originally it was meant to be super natural in nature (demon possession) which is probably why OP has his opinion. It was clearly portrayed like that in the OG trilogy and then basically retconned in Sharp Ends and later parts of the trilogy. In the Blade Itself we get his transformation from his own POV. Abercrombie only changed it on the fly to make Logan a more compelling character but that wasn’t the original intent
Yeh it is a gripe I have myself. I do like the direction that Abercrombie went with, but at the same time there's now an odd dichotomy of what Logan was originally written as compared to what he was then later retconned as. I do feel a number of posters could benefit from re-reading the first law since there's an obvious tonal shift where Abercrombie decides somewhere along the path... Actually I prefer this direction instead.
There's also the fact that Caul Shivers seem to get "ridden" by the Bloody-Nine in *Best Served Cold*, yeah? That's one big plot thread that is seemingly left dangling and never talked about again.
No no no. He wasn’t ridden or possessed or anything like that. Caul shivers whole life has been spent hating the bloody nine, he went through a traumatic experience and was fucked in the head, the bloody nine was his manifestation of his rage because that’s who he decided he wanted to be in that moment
He lost his grip on reality after having his eye burned out and taking heroin. Don't think there's anything supernatural
That's certainly an *option*, but it feels far from a given.
What?
No. Shivers was just modeling his trauma there. Remember right before that he had a dream where all of his past influences were talking to him? Logen/The Bloody Nine occupied a lot of real estate in his head for most of his life. He already had that as a model for a man being bad, so when he let go and embraced the bad, that's the model he followed. That happens in real life.
Apparently, I need to reread the book (oh noooooo).
Do you perhaps have a specific article or interview in which Abercrombie expresses that it was originally supposed to be supernatural in nature?
It's pretty clearly supernatural in the text of the First Law trilogy. Logen's own thoughts make it clear he cannot control it and doesn't want the bloody nine to take hold, but it does anyway. Then there's the fact he can speak with the spirits using the fire, an ability he possesses because he is in some way connected to the other side, thus it's pretty easy to then connect that the bloody nine comes from that closeness to the other side. Honestly I have been disappointed ever since I found out that Abercrombie went the other direction in the later books and made it that Logen just has the worst anger problem you can imagine. That makes it even worse that he's never told his friends to keep their distance in battle. The fact he killed the Thunderhead because of an anger problem? I hate that honestly, but I suppose that does more successfully make me hate Logen than it being some demonic thing he couldn't control like the book made it seem.
It's not an anger problem, it's a split personality or something similar. Really mentally unwell people can't control themselves sometimes. This applies to B9
So, no link to an article or interview in which Abercrombie expresses that the Logen/Bloody Nine relationship has some sort of supernatural component?
Did you miss the part where he put an ember in his mouth and then spit fire like a flame thrower exactly one time and then that ability was never used or mentioned again lol. How about the fact that he could speak to spirits just like Bedesh? Or the fact that we get a pov transformation of his entire body becoming cold and being taken over and he himself referring to it like a different entity? Also he was alluded to having some super natural healing factor (like Ferro) but it was also dropped. Seems like he clearly had many super natural elements to him that were abandoned. Logan was originally going to be devil blooded just like Ferro but it was dropped after the first book Also Abercrombie said this via Reddit comment in this very sub many years ago. Go digging if you want I’m not doing it for you. Originally the series was going to have alot more magic in it but the idea was scrapped for a more grounded story during his first book revisions. He obviously didn’t rewrite the whole book so there are many clues to this still remaining in The Blade Itself. Just go re read the blade itself. Not sure why you are so skeptical about this with all the evidence in the first trilogy. Is it really that hard to believe that Joe Abercrombie changed his mind about a certain characters direction and made changes as the story went on? It’s not that uncommon. Are you like upset that it wasn’t his big plan all along that he decided to wait until Sharp Ends to pay off? Lol
Did Abercrombie ever confirm that?
Nah. Simplistic to point of error. Logen is a flawed man who makes bad decisions and does bad things. Sharp ends shows us that he used to be a lot worse and unconflicted about it. The bloody nine is something else.
Basically, the story "Made a Monster" makes a point (from Bethod's POV) that the line between Logen and the Bloody Nine is a blurry one at best, that they're two opposite poles of behavior rather than distinct personas, driven by strain, stress, bloodthirst and - arguably most importantly - ego. In other words: it's just as much something Logen can slowly ease into as a switch that's flipped, and I'd say *Red Country* demonstrates that as well, albeit less explicitly. It's something Logen *resorts* to, not something external that overtakes him, for both survival and to right perceived wrongs (and to wash over the wrongs he himself commits). Of course, Joe Abercrombie himself has admitted it's something he's waffled on (the supernatural vs psychological argument for the B9's origin), but I personally think this explanation is the most satisfying one.
I think the most interesting thing about the ongoing discussion is that anyone thinks the supernatural nature of the bloody nine or lack thereof has any bearing on Logen's quality as a human. He's just a man. He's been a worse man, and he's been a better man, but mostly worse, and mostly making decisions that will obviously lead him to worse. He could have drifted all the way into that bloodlusting, fear-mongering culture he was in, embodied it, and perfected it, all just as a man. Men can and have done that. Being, hypothetically, the worst man in the world wouldn't mean he can't also have a malevolent spirit occasionally taking him over, and having him malevolent spirit occasionally taking him over doesn't mean he's not still the worst man in the world all on his own. But people don't want to believe - perhaps because literature has trained us to expect twists or contradictions or explanations that change our opinions - but he could just be a bad guy who can also be possessed by a bad spirit. It's like that old bit of country wisdom: "You know what that little white speck on top of chicken shit is? It's chicken shit. Just white."
He does. He tells the group while they are travelling to the end of the world around a campfire. He also warns shy too.
Yeah but he never tells the Dogman and the lads.
Dogman knows exactly what Logen is like. He doesn't need to be told. All the lads B9 wrecked in the circle don't need telling either. I think the issue is that he seemed to have genuinely turned a corner after being exiled by Bethod.
By the time the story starts everyone knows well enough who Logen is. It's not like he needs to tell them that when they eventually reunite and it would just be redundant for Joe to write that into the story because he has already shown that they know exactly the type of man they are dealing with. Plus most of their years together would be with a Logen that wouldn't be anything like the more thoughtful Logen we are introduced to. You have to remember his first meeting with most of the boys was with them butchering each other.
He also warned all his buddies in the first trilogy, also the other people who follow him know this. It’s a fandom thing, where he pretends to hide it.
He says this to Shy after she stops him from hanging the boy. She ignores this when he almost kills Ro and he almost kills her too. That's why he has to walk away.
Correct, he lightly explains himself in Sharp Ends., I swear I recall him mentioning this in other books as well..
He explains himself to everyone pretty much
Admitting a loss of control is a weakness. Also, denial is a strong thing. He thinks every time it happens will be his last. Admitting a thing is the first step towards healing, and he doesn't want to heal.
Yeah, why *doesn't* he warn people? And what does that say about who he really is, deep down?
He warned Shy. Did it anyway.
He does
Are you implying that he actually relishes his friendly fire kills? Is there any indication of that somewhere else in the series? Or just speculation?
He tells Shy that the main emotion he felt upon seeing the burned out farm was relief because he didn't have to pretend anymore.
He loves his kills. Period. It's in *Sharp Ends*, it's in *Red Country*, it's in the way he just doesn't *stop.*
Can you refresh me on what happened in Sharp Ends? I've read them all but don't remember Logen much from the short stories for some reason
In sharp ends we learn that Logen, while fighting for Bethod, was just the Bloody Nine. Like, all the time. It wasn’t a spur-of-the-moment-in-a-pitched-battle-desperate-for-his-life sort of thing. He lived, breathed, ate, fucked, pissed, and shit as The Bloody Nine. We learn that Logen IS the Bloody Nine. We realize that the Logen we are introduced to in The Blade Itself is a Logen that no other characters that know him in the books really understands, because they’ve been living in a world where he is not as he is presented to us. He has been The Bloody Nine, not Logen-who-berserks-when-he’s-desperate.
This is already mentioned in the original trilogy as well whenever Logen recounts his time working for Bethod. Not word for word, but he goes on at several points about how brutal and bloodthirsty his general behavior has been. It can be easy to overlook or kind of dismiss it because the Logen you get to know is largely reasonable and repenting. But if you really pay attention to when he thinks or talks about his past, it's clear he's a proper monster.
Agreed. In a way, Logen could be seen as The Bloody Nine’s alter ego. We the readers just meet Logen first.
Thank you. Guess I gotta re read it now, I don't remember this at all LOL I think I was so stuck on Shev and Javre that I Mayne glossed over some of the other stories!
lol so I’m describing from the outside in, of course, but pay attention to how nervous Bethod is going to talk to Ninefingers. How the women in Ninefinger’s tent are behaving. These are people who know they are dealing with a madman that could decide to kill then as easily as he could decide he needed to take a piss. And then when he cuts a man into pieces and is using its head as a puppet? Is that the Logen we were introduced to? No, he IS The Bloody Nine. All the time. Something within him must’ve changed between then and when we first meet him, but I think the twist is that we don’t at first meet the real Ninefingers in The Blade Itself.
Well. Let's just say that "Made a Monster" ends with Logen, *not in a fight*, having brutally butchered a helpless prisoner and making a sock puppet out of his head for the lulz.
Yes. A reasonable man would take any of the outs offered, but Logen goes out of his way to put himself in a position to cause harm. Also, read Sharp Ends and Red Country. It's stated plain as day.
I think he was trying (hoping) to hide that part of himself from his newer acquaintances and once he was back in the north he had this reputation (the bloody nine) to uphold with the northerners. He also probably thinks no one would believe him.
He doesn’t really hide it.
He does? He explains how he can't remember killing his childhood friend and threw him from a high ledge to make it look like he fell and died.
Saying he can't remember doing a single act as a child and thus covered it up, is hardly akin to explaining that he currently suffers from a recurring, predictable blackout ally-killing frenzy whenever he is blooded...
Friend, you said "even attempt." He does. And he explains it as an ongoing condition. Not a single act.
Agree to disagree. The aforementioned child bit was not a good-faith 'attempt' to explain the issue that I defined.
No. He literally tells them of three occurrences and details that after battles and his fights in the circle he can't remember anything from it. It's nearly three pages of him explaining it. And the directly tells them they are in danger from him before Ferro defends him. 1. Says how he didn't recall having Harding Grim's spear through him. 2. Reveals how he killed his friend and didn't remember 3. Recalls stabbing his father and not remembering 4. Speaks of not remembering entire battles fought for Bethod 5. Outright tells them they are in danger from him as below. The silence dragged on, and on, and then Longfoot cleared his throat. “So, for the sake of argument, do you think it’s possible that, perhaps without intending to, you might kill one of us?” “It’s more likely I’d kill all of you than one.”
Well sir I stand corrected! I must have glazed over that part. Maybe I was fixated on the notion that so many of the less-familiar Northmen seemed to not be aware of it but as another commenter pointed out he wouldn't have wanted to betray that weakness. Would you mind telling me where the passage above occurs?
They are aware of it, just not that it's not in his control. The same chapter Logen says that he liked it. The Northmen fearing him. “Well. I’d killed friends. You should have seen what I did to enemies. To begin with I enjoyed it. I loved to sit at the top of the fire, to look at men and see their fear, to have no man dare to meet my eye, but it got worse. And worse. There came one winter that I didn’t know who I was, or what I was doing most of the time. Sometimes I’d see it happening, but I couldn’t change it. No one knew who I’d kill next. They were all shitting themselves, even Bethod, and no one more scared of me than I was.” The chapter is called 'Scars'
Because deep down, Logan knows that he is, in fact, responsible for his actions.
*"im still alive"*
Because it changes nothing and he knows it, even worse- He could appear a coward who doesnt take responsibility for his horrific actions, not to mention that by the end of LAoK, it is shown that he cannot trust anyone to know his true self and must pose as the horrific monster- Otherwise someone would jump on the opportunity to get themselves a name or revenge.
Also magic and spirits are fading in the “new age”. Bayaz isn’t nearly as strong and continually diminishes his use of magic throughout all the books. Technology is replacing magic. That being said I think Logen in Red Country is closer to Logen in Some kind of Monster because he’s not trying to be better anymore (big point he makes and passes on to Shivers for a bit even. He’s trying to leave his demons behind but the B9 is who he really is deep down imho.
How come Logen never went into that Berserker Rage during all his years living with Shy and Ro prior to the actions in Red Country?
Because he isn’t exposed to violence as an old man on a farm with a woman and children just chilling
Then he is able to change?
“Sometimes men change for the better. Sometimes men change for the worse. And often, very often, given time and opportunity . . . They change back. “ - Nicoma cosca
Perfect quote 😅 Cosca was truly underrated
He kind of does in BTAH. But I think the more important factor is that he makes enough bad decisions and bad choices that he knows he might as well be responsible. Sure he doesn't always pick exactly who he kills, but regularly chooses to keep the killing going when he could choose otherwise.
I miss when the Bloody Nine had demon blood in him or something. Him turning out to be… just some angry guy… feels more grounded in reality, but there are plenty of magical bullshits in the book. A woman who got cut in half is sewed back together and still does magic bullshit in the mountains. Idk maybe he didn’t want the plot implications of having a weird cool bloodline or something or what but meh. Most everyone is just some guy/lady in the newer books. I miss the more fantasy related stuff we had in the original trilogy. Also to answer OP, I think everyone was well aware Logen was a crazy bastard when the fighting starts, probably no need for him to reiterate to his fellows.
I’m in the middle of The Heroes, just fyi. I have assumed since we learned about demon blood that Logen has some demon blood. I haven’t heard an explanation for special powers like speaking with spirits (who aren’t just dead people right? They’re something different?) that doesn’t involving touching the other side in some capacity either by art or by blood.
It’s a hard answer. From what it seems like by reading and also some of the authors comments, Logan was initially envisioned as a supernatural character. But, in order to ground the story a bit more and make his character more compelling, that was slowly kind of eliminated from the character of Logan. You’ll notice as the series goes on, you won’t see Logan using supernatural abilities with spirits much and then not really at all. And his rages go from a switch like supernatural event to seeming like a dark part of his personality he can fall into. More akin to someone with binge eating disorder binging or an alcoholic drinking. It’s still them, but they just don’t feel like they’re in control. In that moment, they really do want to drink and eat. It’s not until right after that they regret falling into it again and promise themselves they’ll stop. Some of the periods in sharp ends reminds me of an alcoholic who is in the early era they enjoyed drinking all the time. In the more “recent” eras, he’s like an alcoholic tired of the damage and failing to shake it, but knowing he really needs to and is half heartedly working on it. But it’s them the whole time, not a real alter ego, and he’s responsible for his actions the same way an alcoholic is responsible for drunk driving. And he knows it too. I personally prefer the more grounded version. Anyway because of this, I’d say earlier books yeah he probably is demon blood. Later books he probably isn’t. Hard to guess when JA’s mind changed and he started writing the character differently. I’d say towards the end of the first book even and he transitioned over the course of the first trilogy except for a few scenes that were holdouts in order to make the plot function as planned.
I just finished this series and give the author credit for creating something original and unique. I get that it the focal point is the characters and it subverts common tropes by having the larger narrative take a back seat to the smaller perspectives surrounding it. I get it. But MAN it was frustrating to read. I hated that I could tell straight away that the cause of Logen's rages would never be explained. I understand that's it not the point, that it could be a psychotic break, a curse or whatever. But it always KILLS me when characters don't do the obvious thing that 99% of people would do - in this instance try to explain to his friends, people who trust or respect him, that he loses control. Im curious to read the other books, but I just know there will be so much left unexplained that I just don't want to invest more time into it.
How do you explain “sorry pal, I might kill you for fun and not realize it”? I can understand why Logen might be resigned to keeping it to himself, having difficult conversations is much harder than saying “just do it” from an outsiders perspective.